Old EA Message Board

Hi Julie,

It will be great to have you as part of our practice charts. Welcome aboard.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad

QuoteYou are doing real good in  your analysis Ari. The prior life issue of abusing the power of being able to perform what would appear to be 'miracles' by most others was about the Natural Law of some others who were not meant to be helped because of the specific nature of their own karmic histories that necessitated whatever the life conditions were for themselves. The intense love and compassion that existed in the Soul of Jesus to help all is that which  created this transgression of that Natural Law. In so doing this in turn reflects that the Soul of Jesus, in those instances, was then making decisions to help those who were not meant to be helped through the agency of his own will instead of being in absolute alignment with the will of God/ess itself: at all times. As a result of this it thus required that Jesus relearn/ remember that absolute alignment with God's will at all times which manifested as 'humiliation' of the Soul of Jesus by being baptized by a former student in another life: John the Baptist. The symbol of baptism of course is one of purification. As a result of this Jesus then in that life went on to perform any many of 'miracles' in order to teach about the natural power of God/ess itself. And, in so doing, taught about the natural law of faith, and the power of faith. 

That is so beautiful. So, this seems to be exemplified by the same signatures I spoke of? Yet instead of interpreting this as frustration, at his level of evolution, it was linked to his own love and compassion for all beings. What story in the bible does this refer to, if at all?

One thing that is very prominant about Jesus are the miracles that he performed. And yet, it's so clear from the new testament and the gnostic texts that the words he used as well as the miracles he performed were always used in the appropriate moment. Not everyone who asked for a healing received one. Yet those who had true faith were always healed. Same with the words he used. He was such a great teacher.

QuoteMany have wondered over the centuries since his life about he did in his early life before he was to become known as the prophet Jesus. There is a great cap in the Bible between roughly the age of 12 and 30 years of age. So where was he ? What were those years about ? Are we able to see in his birth chart any clues to what he did in those years ? Do the planetary nodes off any clues ? 

I love the way you've been asking those socratic questions Rad! You too are a great teacher. Well its hard for me to look at that one with a clear mind bc I've heard so much about those years as it is... nevertheless I'm going to detach from that and give it a go.

To find the answer to such a question, I imagine we'd have to work backwards. Based on the evolutionary intention implied in the chart relative to the circumstances of his life and his ea state, what did he necessarily need to go through in order to fulfill his purpose?
First, the purpose: To exemplify the Truth as directed by God. This is specifically linked to the use of words and the performance of miracles. To heal and inspire with truth. In order to do that, and recognizing that purification was necessary first, we'd look into the chart to understand what the developmental process would have been.

The sn is in Scorpio in the 11th, and its ruler Pluto in the 9th with respect to the square to the planetary nodes in Sag clearly implies having been a part of various communities within which spiritual teaching and training took place. I'm focusing on the sn because the sn implies priorlife egocentric structure, thus I imagine this would be something that would be relived to some degree in order to create the space for his dharma to unfold. So this would point to travel, long periods of time alone in communion with Truth and other necessary preparations that have to do with burning all remaining separating desires.

I suppose geodetics would be appropriate here as well- especially given the strong emphasis on travel. I'm not familiar yet with how to read that map. Does Leo=Egypt through Geodetics, or is that just an association for the astrological the ages? I would look into the Geodetic equivalent for Leo, Virgo, Scorpio, and Pisces. Given the connection to the Sag sn's, perhaps Sagittarius too...

God Bless,
Ari Moshe

Hi Rad,
I'm working on answering your further questions about
the chart of Jesus, and will submit my work very soon.
Thanks, Linda

Hi Ari,

"That is so beautiful. So, this seems to be exemplified by the same signatures I spoke of? Yet instead of interpreting this as frustration, at his level of evolution, it was linked to his own love and compassion for all beings. What story in the bible does this refer to, if at all?"

********************************************

Yes, it is within the signatures you spoke of and, specifically, his Neptune in Scorpio on the S.Node in the 11th which of course is ruled by his Pluto/Mars conjunction in Virgo in the 9th which are in opposition to his Pisces planets in the 3rd. The various S.Nodes in the 12th as well. With his Mercury in Aquarius in the 2nd squaring his Nodes and Neptune this symbolizes his Soul need to recover a 'skipped step' relative to transgressing the Natural Law that not all Souls are meant to be healed due to their own karmic necessities: NATURAL LIMITS. Those natural limits are symbolized by the S.Node with Neptune in Scorpio wherein the Natural Law behind that is the 9th House Pluto/Mars, the various S.Nodes he has in Sagittarius.

The demonstration of his intense love and compassion for all was reflected in the very nature of his teachings as a whole, and, of course, the act of allowing himself to be Crucified for the benefit of all humans. And even as he was dying on the Cross, in intense pain, this is again reflected in his word: "Father forgive them for they know not what they do".

Crucifixion is one of the most horrible ways to be killed because the death of the form occurs through a progressive suffocation within the lungs. The lungs in EA are the 11th House, Aquarius, and Uranus. His birth chart says it all.

************************************* 

One thing that is very prominant about Jesus are the miracles that he performed. And yet, it's so clear from the new testament and the gnostic texts that the words he used as well as the miracles he performed were always used in the appropriate moment. Not everyone who asked for a healing received one. Yet those who had true faith were always healed. Same with the words he used. He was such a great teacher.

********************************************

Yes, and this of course demonstrates that he indeed learned the lessons the he needed to learn.

***********************************************

QuoteMany have wondered over the centuries since his life about he did in his early life before he was to become known as the prophet Jesus. There is a great cap in the Bible between roughly the age of 12 and 30 years of age. So where was he ? What were those years about ? Are we able to see in his birth chart any clues to what he did in those years ? Do the planetary nodes off any clues ? 

I love the way you've been asking those socratic questions Rad! You too are a great teacher. Well its hard for me to look at that one with a clear mind bc I've heard so much about those years as it is... nevertheless I'm going to detach from that and give it a go.

To find the answer to such a question, I imagine we'd have to work backwards. Based on the evolutionary intention implied in the chart relative to the circumstances of his life and his ea state, what did he necessarily need to go through in order to fulfill his purpose?
First, the purpose: To exemplify the Truth as directed by God. This is specifically linked to the use of words and the performance of miracles. To heal and inspire with truth. In order to do that, and recognizing that purification was necessary first, we'd look into the chart to understand what the developmental process would have been.

The sn is in Scorpio in the 11th, and its ruler Pluto in the 9th with respect to the square to the planetary nodes in Sag clearly implies having been a part of various communities within which spiritual teaching and training took place. I'm focusing on the sn because the sn implies priorlife egocentric structure, thus I imagine this would be something that would be relived to some degree in order to create the space for his dharma to unfold. So this would point to travel, long periods of time alone in communion with Truth and other necessary preparations that have to do with burning all remaining separating desires.

I suppose geodetic would be appropriate here as well- especially given the strong emphasis on travel. I'm not familiar yet with how to read that map. Does Leo=Egypt through Geodetics, or is that just an association for the astrological the ages? I would look into the Geodetic equivalent for Leo, Virgo, Scorpio, and Pisces. Given the connection to the Sag sn's, perhaps Sagittarius too...

***********************************************

Geodetics is indeed the way to proceed with this kind of question. And, of course, if there exists in actual historical evidence that has actual recorded records. And, in fact, there is such recorded evidence of Jesus being in India for some time which also means in the context of such travel being exposed to different peoples in different lands with their own cosmological understandings of life itself. Thus, being exposed to great diversity. This is reinforced by the very nature of his teachings wherein the essence of those teachings are Eastern in nature, not Western: Jewish. Thus, he taught about when 'one's eye is single one's whole body is full of light'. Or 'the kingdom of God is within you'. And so on. These teachings come from the East, and specifically India. India was an ancient homeland for the Soul of Jesus as was Tibet, Kashmir, Nepal, and Burma.

Through Geodetics India and the surrounding areas are within the Gemini zone. So we can see by looking at his birth chart all those Pisces planets in the natural 3rd house: Gemini. And all those planets are of course ruled by his Neptune in Scorpio on his S.Node. This then correlates to his previous lifetimes wherein his evolution leading to the liberation of his Soul took place which is reflected in his own words: "I am the Son of God". This Neptune and South Node are then ruled by his Pluto with his Mars in the 9th in opposition to all those Pisces planets in the 3rd: the symbols for the traveling back to an ancient homeland in order to remember the nature of his own Soul, and to expose itself again to the teachings that come from those lands. Within this to recover the 'skipped steps' that are symbolized by his Mercury in Aquarius squaring his Nodes. Mercury is the ruler of his Mars and Pluto. And that goes back to where we started in terms of the prior transgression of the Natural Law of miracles as that Mercury in also squaring his Nodes and Neptune.

He was destined to come back to Judea in order to fulfill his mission and destiny. Via geodetics this is symbolized by his N.Node in Taurus which in fact correlates to Judea in general, and Jerusalem specifically.   

******************************************


God Bless, Rad

Quote from: Rad on Feb 08, 2011, 12:33 PMThere are a couple of dynamics and issues that we can consider more. One is rooted in the fact that coming into the life as Jesus he had to relearn certain forms of humility as evidenced in the fact that a former student in another life, John the Baptist, became the vehicle for his own baptism. Can we see from the placement of his Planetary Nodes relative to his natal planets why this was a karmic/ evolutionary necessity ? What did the Soul of Jesus do in another life that required this ? And, within this, what can we see in his past that would have lead to the life of Jesus in the first place ? And why the necessity of being Crucified ? Another dynamic to examine more deeply would be the Soul psychology of Jesus over many, many lifetimes that lead to becoming Jesus ? What has that Soul psychology been ? And, because of that psychology, what types of specific prior lives do he live that all lead to the life of Jesus ? There have been other lives in which he was, relatively speaking, very known for his various capacities: not lives that were in seclusion at all. Can we see some of that in his birth chart, and the Planetary Nodes ?

Hi Rad,

I have attempted to answer your first question regarding Jesus having to re-learn certain forms of humility:

Pluto/Mars/Virgo describes the desire to re-learn humility.  Mercury rules Pluto and Mars, and naturally rules the 3rd house.  Pluto/Mars opposite the 3rd house planets showed the requirement for co-operation with the higher will of God.  Past knowledge (Pluto/9th) was brought down to earth (3rd) and communicated.  

Uranus/Pisces/3rd rules the 3rd house, giving a strong revolutionary flavour to his teachings.  The sign Gemini (natural ruler of the 3rd house) in the 6th contains the planetary NNs of Uranus and Jupiter and correlates to not only Jesus' own expression of humility and self-sacrifice, but also him teaching these qualities to others.  The 6th house is ruled by Venus and correlates to the "extremes" that were employed to re-learn the lesson of further humility.  

SNs of Uranus and Mars Sag/12th first-quarter square to natal Pluto.  Mars symbolizes personal will, and Uranus resistance.  This square describes wanting to be turned loose but being restrained in order to learn patience and develop humility.  Similarly, the SN of Uranus squares natal Uranus, and the SN of Pluto squares Saturn/Venus.  In turn, Saturn rules the 2nd, and Venus rules the 6th and the NN/Taurus/5th.    

The personal will of Jesus can also be described by the Planetary SNs of Pluto, Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune in the 1st house, with the NNs of these planets residing in the Western hemisphere of the chart (6th/7th) signifying taking his teachings out to the social sphere (egoconcentric orientation) and having to learn further humility.  Another indicator of extremes is 7 Pluto oppositions to his 3rd house planets, as well as the emphasis on all the planetary SNs in the East in opposition to the NNs of the outer planets in the West.

"Skipped steps" -  Mercury square the Nodes. Mercury is ruled by Uranus/Pisces/3rd very closely conjunct Jupiter/Pisces/3rd.  This aspect describes having to re-learn certain aspects of the Natural Truth for the purpose of study/teaching, thus liberating and transforming (Uranus) obsolete knowledge or "teaching methods" (Jupiter) so as to align more fully (evolution) with higher Natural Law.  

The Neptune balsamic conjunction to SN/Scorpio implies limitation from the past.  This is an aspect of re-living prior life dynamics due to prior choices that were made (ie, using his own will to perform miracles out of love, resulting in skipped steps).  The "fixed" houses and signs of the t-square correlate to resistance or an old karmic pattern which prevented Jesus' evolution.  

The 3rd house planets, constant movement, oppose Pluto/Mars 9th, long-distance travel to the East, in order to recover the teachings/knowledge that lead to his destiny of sacrifice on the cross.  The recovery of the "skipped steps" of Mercury required adjustment and surrender (Neptune, resolution SN) to God's will, and this lead to the traumatic events in his life.  Dying on the cross correlated to giving up his will to the higher Will of God, and taught the evolutionary lesson of further humility.  

The NN/Taurus allowed a total evolutionary change so that Jesus could continue in his evolution.  This links to the planetary NN of Pluto found in Gemini 7th, so overall evolution was effected through expansion of intellectual structures, sharing God's teachings with others, and fully entering into a relationship with God through the demonstration of complete and humble surrender to God's Will.

Thank you so much Rad for your guidance.

Hi Linda,

Good job Linda. They only exception I would take is to this: "Mars symbolizes personal will, and Uranus resistance." Uranus does not correlate to resistance. Resistance correlates to Scorpio, the 8th House, and Pluto. So in the case Jeses with his S.Node with Neptune in Scorpio in the 11th House his resistance to the Natural Laws concerning healing in general, and miracles therein specifically, manifested as rebellion of those Natural Laws because his intense desire to help all, no matter what.

Other than that, good job.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Ari and Linda,

Wondering if you both would like to explore the issues of the mother of Jesus, Mary, and, related to that, issues linked to Mary Magdalena as one of his disciples ? Some of the issues we could explore from the point of view of his birth chart, and the planetary nodes, would be the controversy about his mother having a 'immaculate conception', her own origins, whether Jesus had any siblings through his mother, his mother's own history, and how all of this is then linked to Mary Magdalena. So let me know.

God Bless, Rad

I'd be very interested in that. I also have another question or two I want to explore from the last few posts as well...
Thank you.

Rad, I'll ask this here as to not jump too far ahead in the Geodetic thread.

QuoteThrough Geodetics India and the surrounding areas are within the Gemini zone. So we can see by looking at his birth chart all those Pisces planets in the natural 3rd house: Gemini.

Even though Pisces is on the third house cusp, which correlates to its own geodetic region, why are you still associating the third house with the geodetic equivalent of Gemini?
Thank you,
Ari Moshe

Yes, thank you so much Rad, I am interested in exploring
the issues of Jesus' mother Mary, and Mary Magdalena. 

Hi Ari,

Because the houses are the foundation of all birth charts which are then over laid or conditioned by the specific signs that can be on them. And, after that of course, the specific planets. The total understanding of geodetic equivalents is what I am proposing to do in a new thread on that topic.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Linda and Ari,

Ok, let's start with one of the issues first: the possibility of an immaculate conception by his mother Mary. At first, let's see if he has a signature in his chart that would so symbolize such a phenomena. So let's have a go at it.

God Bless, Rad

Quote from: Rad on Feb 15, 2011, 11:08 AMOk, let's start with one of the issues first: the possibility of an immaculate conception by his mother Mary. At first, let's see if he has a signature in his chart that would so symbolize such a phenomena. So let's have a go at it.

JWG Quote:   The Virgo/Pisces archetype as manifest within Natural Law"¦"¦has everything to do with UNITING with the totality of NATURE, being one WITHIN IT, thus serving and sustaining IT'S integrity BECAUSE OF BEING IN BALANCE, AND AT ONE, WITH IT"¦"¦


Evolutionary past:  The Planetary South Nodes of Pluto, Mars and Uranus in Sagittarius (Natural Law), and Pluto/Virgo/9th correlate to living in harmony with Nature, virgin nature.  Neptune balsamic conjunction to the South Node indicates spiritualization of past egocentric structures.
   
Humility of service:  The Virgo/Pisces archetype in the chart of Jesus.  Every planet and both Nodes are linked to Pluto/Virgo.  

Immaculate conception:  The 12th house cusp (Source) is ruled by Pluto/Virgo.  Neptune is the Final Dispositor of the chart.  Neptune symbolizes the totality of life, and transcending of the personal will.  Mary's reply to Angel Gabriel:  


correlates to complete surrender and submission to God's will.  

Mary, mother of Jesus:  The 4th house cusp (mother) and 5th house cusp (child-bearing) are ruled by Mars/Virgo (masculine/feminine principles) in the 9th house of Natural Law.  The 8th house cusp, Cancer (mother), is ruled by Moon/Pisces, describes Jesus' mother Mary merging with the Source of Creation.  Pluto/Virgo is opposite the Moon in Pisces.  The Moon in Pisces describes how Holy Mary is "full of grace," "free of sin" and innocent.  Ruler of the Moon is Pluto/Virgo.

Virgo:  The Virgin in the Virgo glyph has a lamp in one hand, as a sign of the spiritual light, the light in darkness, in the other an ear of corn, representing her son as the spiritual food of mankind.

Hi Linda,

Thanks for your analysis. I want to wait before I comment to much before Ari has a chance to share his analysis as well. One thing I would like to say is that it is very, very important to understand the Soul of Jesus, it's nature, in order to understand how and why Mary came to be his mother. The very nature of the Soul of Jesus was to teach about the underlying unity and equality of all humans: men and women, rich and poor, sick or not sick, and so on. His Soul, as all of ours have been, was exposed to the tremendous distortions to this Natural Law due to the invented cosmologies by MEN that made them superior to women. And all the 'religious' justifications that then followed those distorted cosmologies that then 'justified' all the laws, rights and wrongs, cultural taboos, and so on. Not just to women but to any human who was so subjected to these distortions. For example, India itself where he spent a period of time and was thus exposed to their 'caste' system. And, of course, the very nature of his travels through so many lands in which he was exposed to this distortions in one form or another which also of course was manifest in Judea itself.

The history of his Soul through time, beyond the specific life of Jesus, was not only to be exposed to these distortions, perversions, to Natural Laws but also to teach against them. There were certain lives as well, long ago, in which he got caught up in these distortions and actually lived them out in his own way which only contributed to his own Soul anger against himself. It is that very anger at himself that progressively, through many lives, lead to the life of Jesus in which he did all that he could to teach about the Natural Laws, the core equality and unity of all humans.

It is important to understand this in order to understand not only why he was born through his mother Mary, but to also understand the role of Mary Magdalena as well. There is a specific link, a common thread, between each of these Mary's. When this is understood then we will be able to understand the possibility of the immaculate conception, and why. One of the clues to this common thread is seen in his birth chart with his S.Nodes of Venus, Saturn, Neptune and Vesta are in Capricorn and in his 2nd/1st Houses . And those are naturally ruled by his Saturn in Pisces in his 3rd which is conjunct all of his Pisces planets including his Moon, Venus, and Uranus. His natal Vesta is conjunct and within all his Pisces planets as well.  And those are of course opposed by his Pluto/Mars. And, in the end, all of this comes down too, as you pointed out, his natal Neptune IN SCORPIO, with his S. Node in the 11th House.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

QuoteOk, let's start with one of the issues first: the possibility of an immaculate conception by his mother Mary. At first, let's see if he has a signature in his chart that would so symbolize such a phenomena. So let's have a go at it.

I'm starting this by looking at Moon, Cancer and 4th house. He has Cancer on the 8th. At his evolutionary state, home IS a universal concept, it is linked with God. The separating desires linked with identification with a separate ego have already been exhausted. The ruler of that Cancer is his Moon in Pisces which through the stellium is in opposition to the ruler of his 4th house, Mars in Virgo. By rulership, everything does in fact lead back to Pisces in the 3rd, which is of course ruled by Neptune leading to the sn in Scorpio in the 11th house.

The 11th house, ruled by Venus, points leads back to Pisces in the 3rd. There are a few observations here: His own mother has possibly been a sibling in the past- and they have been a part of the same community. It also corresponds to the nature of the Mother herself as serving a role to unify that which is separate, to dissolve the effects of patriarchal conditioning.

When I think of immaculate conception, I link Moon and Sun with Neptune. This is of course very clear in his chart. The question "who is the father, the one planting the seed" is something that I feel is necessary to look at here. How do we look at that in a chart in general?

The impregnator, the one planting the seed- intuitively, I think this may be Mars/Pluto. The very nature of those archetypes symbolize the natural instinct within all souls to get the hell away from God, and the deep craving for God.

All of those dynamics are exemplified through sexuality- the very nature of the masculine and feminine which correlates to the very nature of duality. So long as there is an object of craving or an object of aversion there exists duality. The duality of male and female can only be united via the exhaustion of alll desires which creates that separation in the first place.

For a soul who has exhausted all desires, and is living full God consciousness, or at least almost full- there is absolutely no impulse to merge through any physical form. She is united with nature herself. Thus, like the earth which receives all of its nourishment through Grace, and takes nothing that is not given, perhaps Mary was the recipient of the seed of God. Astrologically, if this is a Mars/Pluto thing, then we see how that is naturally linked in with the Pisces/Virgo axis. I absolutely love that quote from JWG that Linda quoted:

QuoteThe Virgo/Pisces archetype as manifest within Natural Law"¦"¦has everything to do with UNITING with the totality of NATURE, being one WITHIN IT, thus serving and sustaining IT'S integrity BECAUSE OF BEING IN BALANCE, AND AT ONE, WITH IT"¦

Taking into account the strong karmic linkage between Capricorn and Pisces would be important. Many of the Pisces planets, including Neptune itself, has its south node in Capricorn in the 1st and second. What does this say that is relevant to this exploration? Beyond the level of implying a longer, independence, and a soul that has held responsibility for the masses- it also points to the archetypal notion of "authority"; the rules that all souls must follow according to their own karmic requirements. Capricorn symbolizes the "father in heaven" the sole spiritual authority, which is the natural consequences and facets of natural law. The ruler of Capricorn, Saturn is conjunct the Moon in Pisces. The Capricorn Cancer interface here through the sn of the Pisces, Neptune, the ruler of all that Capricorn being in Pisces and conjunct the Moon implies something that I'm not seeing right now! I'm going to give my head a rest and come back to this later and see what feedback you offer.
God bless,
am