Old EA Message Board

Nerissa,

I'm in agreement with you that she has chosen her path.  I don't mean to suggest she is a virtuous natural woman who just has a bandana stuffed in her mouth. She is most definitely contributing to Trump's evil agenda in her own quiet supporting way. This is the distortion aspect of Lilith that succumbs to behavavioral contagion (11th hs lilith), relative to the crowd around her.  I think you have a valid point that she has developed this all on her own. The enmeshment with the soul they call Trump though, has cemented her in the sludge.

Ha - yeah, nope: no bandanna in her mouth!!   Gave me a giggle....
I think I know what you're saying about her....

I have an instinctive reaction to her though: sometimes, though I hate to speak of people's appearances, especially women: she looks almost inhuman

I have already edited my previous post....instead of adding to that just want to add here: that I think Trump craves to be sadistically ruled by another, especially a woman, so he has attracted her into his life.

He craves this because of his deep soul recognition of his natural wrong/guilt in his choices....I really think Melania fills this role, and maybe has for a few lifetimes.....
she may not herself have made a contract - but her own negative Lillith issues (11th/gemini: someone who can remove themselves & objectify others while connecting to their pain in a detached manner, ie, sadistic) has led her to Trump: he is the perfect specimen for her to inflict her rage, project upon, control - & he welcomes it....and she gets everything she wants...

Nerissa,  I'm glad I gave you a giggle..we gotta keep laughing right?

I guess the burning question to Rad is, has she made a contract with evil yet, or are we seeing her sink into one before our eyes? 

Her Pluto in the second in Virgo shows an internalized sense of inferiority, opposing Juno, Ceres, and Chiron in the 8th. Juno is in Pisces but Ceres and Chiron are in Aries. This a sado-masochistic signature if I ever saw one, one that causes her an internal rage and such a desire to osmose power.  The square from mars to her north node in Pisces shows a desire to utilize deception and fool people in order to gain the kind of control and power her husband has. Best recent example that comes to mind is when she made a formal announcement from "˜"the office of the First Lady" that Mira Ricardel should be fired, and then poof! Mira was fired. This also demonstrates the projection of that silencing thing I was talking about earlier. Mira was fired because she argued with Trump staffers during a plane trip. Message: keep your mouth closed, or be axed.

Hi Rad and All,

this is a lot to look at... One thing is, i found myself unable to understand her alone, to focus on her alone. To understand her we always have to reference to him and that says something of what it is like to be abducted by the energy of evil and give personal power and integrity away. She is no longer Woman and that is one of the first things this says about her.

If she is 'only' strongly influenced by evil and out of the contract herself, there is also something really curious about her Lilith positions in Gemini because i think in the back of our minds, when trump got elected, we all hoped she would be the one to eventually turn him in, to speak up. It was clear to anyone that she was not 'in love' and was actually 'in fear' posing for a absolute fake picture of a marriage. That was clear to everyone (i remember on of my friends saying that to him her eyes screamed HELP!) and the fact that she has all those positions in gemini/taurus - sn lilith, mars, lucifer, venus, mercury and nn venus - opposition neptune, she is projecting in all of us! the picture of her martyrdom (we all 'secretly'/unconsciously hoping she would make it, feeling sorry for her...) and her whole sadomasochistic dilemma with pluto and sn in virgo/nn pisces. When she at some point gave an interview saying she was one of the most bullied person in history i laughed but now i do think she was serious... let's face it, she married evil!
The feminine roots in her, God/dess allow, still come in small details and mars strongly attached to the whole signature/rage (mars gemini, sn mars sag conjunct sn uranus, lucifer, mars conjunct mercury, sn mercury in aries) and we have hardly seen something like a first lady refuse to to touch her husband, reacting angry when he tried to take her hand! This of course also correlates literally in her case to have sex with the devil (mars/lucifer conjunct nn uranus) and the trauma therein. Trauma to her own personal power, her mars drive, the ability to stand for herself, the contamination/destruction of her vital energy.
To come to a place like that is probably linked with she believing the sadomasochistic tapes imposed on women, pluto virgo/jupiter in scorpio, and the ideas that Women should be perfect, beautiful and with a closed mouth to be of 'service'. So the gemini thing is about giving up her mind to someone else. If she ever wants something for herself, climb the social ladder, she believes she must follow these rules first, women are beautiful and men are in charge, she follows the rules of the 'perfect picture' with the consequent trauma of knowing real life is not like the picture at all.
I don't know what to think of jupiter and neptune at the 0 degrees... What is she only now starting?

Also, the fact that she hardly does something to get out of the situation is her strong taurus energy, to get used to the comforts/position she gained from being involved with him and overall social position, prevents any real coming out of the well. She simply does not want to see it until she is forced to - the virgo/pisces crisis and all the squares, besides the earth trines, allowing for compensation... That will start to happen when she comes to the realisation/crisis derived from her neptunian projection, that people actually get the truth about her and not taking as a role model at all, she will start to be thrown on to herself (maybe this is the 0 jupiter/neptune...)
I see another issue, and that is that the ruler of the nn is neptune and the ruler of the sn is mercury, overly enmeshed with everything already mentioned and both square the nodes... No easy thing, also because her nn of neptune is his pluto... Can she ever get out of this?

Helena

P.S. Rad, would her chart be a noon chart or exact time? I take her birth time is unknown?

Stacie, Nerissa,

you bring up some points i could not arrive, as she being really powerful at all. I don't see her like that, it did not occur to me...  But maybe she feels like this and you are exactly right. This is what a supreme distorted lilith is about of course, to be convinced/thinking/accepting (gemini) personal power comes with a high price to pay, duplicity, and sell body and soul to any cause, even if that is an evil contact at such level... Maybe also the inconjunct of gemini to scorpio is not thinking of consequences, and she has that inconjunct from all those planets in gemini/taurus to jupiter in scorpio!
Yep, she wants to have power and she probably feels like that right now even if she is such a prop.

Helena

Hi Stacie,  Nerissa, and Helena,

First my apology for not saying that the chart for her is a noon chart. I assumed by seeing her Sun right on the MC that would be self evident. So sorry for that.

Second, no, her Soul has not yet made a direct contact with Evil: Lucifer. She is right on the brink of that however relative to her choice to be 'married' to Trump.

And why she did that, made that choice in the first place is that, her inner dynamics that caused that choice, is that which reflects choices she has made in other lives that have lead to her current life.

In essence, her Soul has had deep inner desires equaling her need to be in positions of social power wherein she has formed relationships with others who have had that power in the first place: to be vicarious extensions of them. This can be seen through her Saturn in Taurus, in this life conjunct her Sun, and that Saturn is trine her Moon in Capricorn, and both of these trine her S.Node in Virgo. That S.Node is ruled by her Mercury in Taurus which is conjunct her Venus/Lucifer conjunction which also conjuncts her Mars, S.Node of Lilath, and her natal Lucifer. To become a vicarious extension is symbolized in the archetype of Taurus.

That Mars, Lucifer, and S.Node of Lilath is opposed her Neptune, and both square her Lunar Nodal Axis, as does Neptune, the ruler of her N.Node. These symbols correlate to her 'attractions' to others who are considered as some sort of 'icon', Pisces, Neptune, the 12th House archetypes, by society itself. By forming relationships in this way she then fulfills her desires for social power, status, and her inner ambition to make that happen.

She has done this by using her own resources, Taurus, to attract and form the relationships she needs to actualize those desires. Relative to that Mars, Lucifer, S.Node of Lilath conjunction opposed by Neptune that resource has been her own body, her own sexuality. She has had other lives for example where she has been a courtesan to those in social power including Kings and Queens. So her Soul desired to be born into bodies that where judged to be extremely beautiful and sexual so that she could then attract the types of Souls that would serve as the vehicles to actualize her own desires and needs.

Relative to her Mercury conjunct Venus/Lucifer/and Mars/S.Node of Lilath in Gemini this has caused her to be duplicit in her relationships with others, telling others what she felt/ feels they neede to hear, in order to fulfill her own desires. This duplicity has then  manifested in all kinds of behavioral ways, and of course the causative dynamic in which she has attracted others who could be called 'silver tongue devils' who were/are full of their own duplicity. This is the cause of her attracting something like Trump who of course was fucking, oops, other women while being 'married' to her.

Of course she has been into total denial, Virgo, of her own reality, her own truth. Quite the opposite: she has set herself to be a 'victim' of those that she has formed relationships with in order to actualize her desires: Virgo. This is the 'why', Helena, of her Neptune and Jupiter being at zero in Sagittarius and Scorpio. In essence one of her 'skipped steps' is to stop being in denial of her own dynamics, and the reality she is responsible for creating by becoming totally honest with her truth, and the inner psychology within her that creates that actual truth. In that way she then recovers those skipped steps. The zero degrees of Neptune and Jupiter means that this is the first life that her Soul has created in order for that to happen.

With her N.Node being in Pisces, the ruler of that Neptune, and conjunct Trump's N.Node of Lucifer which is in his 7th House we can  see yet again the 'icon' she has attracted again to fulfill her desires for social status and power. When she met Trump she was making not very much money by being a model who was trying to sell her own cosmetics. So by marrying him she went from that to being a vicarious extension of a billionaire, and the entire life shift for her this created.  

Trump's N.Node of Lucifer is ruled by his 2nd House Neptune which conjuncts her Uranus in Libra, and Pluto in Virgo. That Uranus is ruled by her Venus which, again, is conjunct her Lucifer, Mars, and S.Node of Lilath. For him she is nothing more that a beautiful possession: a trophy wife. We can also see in these symbols the underlying Soul/ emotional, and psychological detachment she has from him because this is not a relationship based on actual or true love for either of them. It is a, to use Trump's psychology, a 'transactional' relationship for them both. They don't sleep in the same room or bed with one another, and Trump even locks the door that separates their two rooms at night.

TRANSACTIONAL DYNAMICS ARE THE VERY BREEDING GROUND THROUGH WHICH 'FAUSTIAN DEALS' ARE MADE.

Check this: Body language experts have hilarious takes on the "˜distant pained' marriage of the Trumps.. https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/body-language-experts-hilarious-takes-distant-pained-marriage-trumps/

Distorted Lilath indeed for Melania. The danger in this life is that her Soul will become so 'addicted' to the type of lifestyle she has because of Trump, all the recognition of her Soul has and is attracting to itself because of this, that she will go ahead a make an actual contract with Evil, Lucifer, in order to keep having this for as long as her Soul lives in this and other lives.

Her N.Node of Lilath is 9 Capricorn conjunct her Moon. Relative to the resolution of the distorted Lilath how would/ could this manifest ?

God Bless, Rad

Maybe I'm feeling giddy this morning but the image/reality of Trump locking his bedroom door against Melania is giving me giggle fits! What's the poor boy afraid of anyway?

With NN Lillith conjunct Moon, 9th Cap: the positive reality would be for her to take responsibility, speak/be/walk the talk of the truth of who she is. The likelihood of that is slim: she could take the first steps though...that will take lifetimes to 'correct'.

Fact is: she wants the social standing, and has used others, manipulated others, lied etc to gain that 'power' and social standing: she does what she wants, acts how she wants, has adulation, etc & etc

She has used her Lillith rage to create realities that SHE wants, no matter the toll to others. She cannot see herself as she really is: she justifies her needs and wants & feels she 'deserves' them, because she is 'better'  

The soul has evolved the current ego to further her negative Lillith agenda -
instead of being truthful(9th): she will lie
instead of taking responsibility(Cap.): she will blame others and play victim
instead of showing compassion to others(moon): she will trample them down & gloat at her superiority

She has a choice to see her behavior and change: be honest, take responsibility and understand we are all created equal....but, I am not real optimistic she will: she simply - like her jacket said: doesn't care

Does the 9th rule contracts, or is it 3rd/gemini?

Here/there I've heard people say they 'feel sorry' for her, or sorta give her a pass, etc. on Trump: what I don't say, but think is: "Melania married Trump for a reason: and it's not because she was in love with him."

I do see her as a thorn to him: thus locking the door.

If she is so close to a contract herself: I see her as being very very angry that Trump even became president: she married him for the perks, money, power, famous friends, etc.
Here Trump is: the one who made the contract...to her, he may be 'failing' her and what she agreed to by becoming president: he is having all of his 'empire' and lies fall down around him. It's possible his fortune will be lost, the family name worthless. Then where will she be? She is incredibly angry about all this...Guess we'll see how it all plays out...
Trump was sorta her 'god' which is to say 'demon': and he's failing her...maybe why his door is locked!!!
Of course this could lead her going to the 'real deal': evil itself, then she won't need the middle man

Also: I had mentioned she had an 'inhuman' look...in the folklore of the 'fae' folk they frequently had what was called 'glamour': they could put up a shield, make themselves appear to other than they are: to dazzle....reminds me of her

(edit here: I thought this week I would lose internet, probably next week: just saying as I know sometimes there is a wait for others to post: if you don't hear from me: I don't have internet: just FYI, thanks)

Hi All,

Rad thank you for posting this extreme example of a distorted Lilith in Gemini in Melania Trump.

We have quite a spirited dialogue going with respect to what we are all witnessing in living, breathing color on the world stage.

Her story is a reminder that life and evolution is about choices. Even her choice making planet, MARS, is in GEMINI, which restates her instinct for duplicity. There is always a shadow behind her smile.

Nerissa, contracts is Saturn/Capricorn.

You wrote
Maybe I'm feeling giddy this morning but the image/reality of Trump locking his bedroom door against Melania is giving me giggle fits! What's the poor boy afraid of anyway?

There are symbols that reflect past lives of him being stabbed in his sleep or when he least expected it by a woman. Yes, I agree that she is not as powerless as she appears to some. At the very least his throat has been slit when he didn't see it coming.

Those Cancer symbols in the 11th reflect his PTSD along these lines and the element of surprise.

***

Rad spoke of the danger of her addictions to a lavish lifestyle and where that can lead. Yes, her Lucifer in Gemini conjunct her Venus in Taurus inconjunct her Jupiter Rx in Scorpio speaks of this weak link of her obsession for the material world and true gluttony within it.

It does appear that she got way more than she ever bargained for in becoming First Lady. It was the last thing she ever wanted or thought could happen. She had a look of horror and shock after Trump won and it took a long time (was it a year?) to leave NY and move into the White House. There is nothing about that post that she enjoys except the title although it forces her to PRETEND (Neptune sq the nodes) that she loves him yet it is clear she is repulsed by the man.

Her Neptune and Jupiter being at zero in Sagittarius and Scorpio is like waking up from a nightmare, yet the nightmare is real. She looks miserable. It can only be this misery that makes her stop and ask herself if any of it is worth it.

Her Neptune Rx, ruler of her NN, is in Sagittarius and moving INTO a square to her Nodes at the 10 degree mark, so the degree of disillusionment linked with power and fame is only beginning. This Neptune opposes a stunning stellium along these lines: Mars in Gemini, SN of Lilith in Gemini, Lucifer Venus, and Mercury in Taurus. Also, her North Node of Lilith and the Moon in Capricorn natally square Uranus in Libra.

These symbols also reflect the possibility of her losing EVERYTHING due to a dethroning of Trump as a result of his financial corruption.

~Kristin

P.S.
Rad you asked
Her N.Node of Lilath is 9 Capricorn conjunct her Moon. Relative to the resolution of the distorted Lilath how would/ could this manifest ?

In its purest form for the resolution of the distortion of NN of Lilith in Capricorn conjunct would be for her to take responsibility for the life she creates and to use her position of authority to empower women. I will allow space for others to say more.

Wow, Kristin! Yikes, about that @ Trump fearing his throat cut in the night. Guess he does have reason to fret.
I posted earlier: Melania is what he deserves....

Thanks: I thought Jupiter would be contracts, or even Mercury.....

I agree: Trump's downfall will be her crossroads moment....

Also: how do we find asteroid motion relative to other planets - for instance, I thought they'd be slower than Pluto, but appears some at least are quicker: re: Lucifer for instance....
Do most asteroids have a consistent relative motion to the other planets? Generally true most of them are quicker relative to, say, Pluto?
Asking to understand phasal relationships between the planets.....thanks

Hi Nerissa,

When I said contracts were Saturn/Capricorn, I was referring to the enforcement of contracts and the legal obligations within them. The contract of itself is actually SCORPIO.

You wrote:

Do most asteroids have a consistent relative motion to the other planets? Generally true most of them are quicker relative to, say, Pluto? Asking to understand phasal relationships between the planets

Yes.

Most asteroids sit in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter and so their motion or orbit tends to range between 3-5 years.  Asteroid Lilith is 4-5 years.

They are always faster than the outer planets.

The Nodes motion of Asteroid Lilith are not consistent which is why the Nodes are not 180 degrees apart as we see with the Lunar Nodes.

~Kristin

Hi All,

Kristin, that is strong information of trump having that kind of death(?) in the past. When Rad asks what the possibilities are on the nn Lilith symbol at 9 Cap, i see right away that symbol sitting right on top of trump's pallas and opposite his mercury in the 11th, square his neptune, juno, chiron, jupiter in the 2nd. Are these symbols also referring to this?
I was trying to follow on the posts and also trying to make sense for myself of all the information. Nerissa, i do see your point in that she does not signed or likes the job she has now..
Although in this case i think Melania differs from trump in the degree of damage both of them do or can do to others. And that would be the difference between making the contact and flirting with it.
She can do some damage to him, but i don't see her hurt more then close others and disappoint trump supporters. At least in this life her degree of influence if quite limited, also one of evil tactics. It's when people sink down and feel powerless that that sort of temptations appear. In her case, she kind of got to the top of the pyramid in the context of what her beliefs allow her to, from an extreme distorted lilith perspective in an extreme patriarchal scenario. Her Lucifer is on her sn lilith in gemini. She has certainly felt powerless, then the temptations of using tactics to get more power, in her case power over information and misrepresentation, like Rad mentioned, mercury, SN ruler on all those planets and sn lilith, being the symbol of lying to please others and being lied to at the same time. Cunning might be the word.

If we see the chart with the focus on her distorted/resolution female roots, it's difficult to see anything other but this going down and very dark before or even if it gets better, so i will do a proposal more on the imaginary side...
With her nn lilith in Capricorn conjunct natal moon, she has the possibility to restore her female roots based on the complete restructuring of her own sense of authority when she develops INNER SECURITY. Inner Security for her, means she has to renounce all she has accomplished so far relative to her marriage to someone like trump, this renouncement creating the necessary detachment to acknowledge the reasons, emotional and psychologically, to be there in the first place. For example to recognise the fact that this was a marriage based on gaining what she thought she could not give from herself to herself so she went out to get it from him, even when she felt repulsed by the consequences of it as seen in the fake smile (and as i writing this i am also seeing these events as her own self-undermining/virgo).
It will also mean that she will suffer significant trauma and wound in this process relative to her relationships and mostly her relationship to her son. This is nn lilith/moon t-square uranus in libra/ceres and chiron in aries. This trauma will also correlate to she getting older and less attractive at same time this is happening, so a complete change of her self image/wound to the physical body image. This sort of trauma is necessary from an evolutionary point of view because of the skipped steps resolution concerning seeing the truth beyond any illusion she has been setting for herself. I would not see that as becoming immediately inner secure to carry on by her own means, that why this process could be very long, nonetheless just start getting rid of the junk will get things ending so they can re-start at some point. Neptune retrograde at 0 degrees can certainly make this look like an never ending process from the point of view of the soul and since nn lilith is conjunct moon that recovery will also concern the mother/son relationship and archetypally to her giving birth to a new self.

In the imaginary proposal i was alluding to she has in fact the possibility to turn the story upside down. In that nn lilith on trump's pallas and all those oppositions and squares, no wonder he locks the door, because she can speak. She knows secrets and he might have locked the door too late. Her Kassandra being on his pluto confirms this too, although he will certainly try to make everyone doubt her. Again if she tells what she knows she might lose her position, money and status but she can turn the victim into the hero if her desires reflect purity of intentions  in getting rid of it all, she can be empowered by her own roots and empower other women as Kristin mentions, at least from a soul point of view. Again probably fantasy given the context, but who knows?

Helena

Hi Helena,

The locked bedroom door is more about the 'King's' fear of being assassinated or poisoned by someone. I will have Rad speak more to that.

You wrote:

With her nn lilith in Capricorn conjunct natal moon, she has the possibility to restore her female roots based on the complete restructuring of her own sense of authority when she develops INNER SECURITY. Inner Security for her, means she has to renounce all she has accomplished so far relative to her marriage to someone like trump, this renouncement creating the necessary detachment to acknowledge the reasons, emotional and psychologically, to be there in the first place. For example to recognize the fact that this was a marriage based on gaining what she thought she could not give from herself to herself so she went out to get it from him, even when she felt repulsed by the consequences of it as seen in the fake smile

Yes, imagine the challenge of starting all over again yet with NN of Lilith in Capricorn, she has been learning how to be in a man's world, she has been learning how to play the game, so she does know more than a thing or two now. To become her own inner authority is key. She has gained a great deal of leverage and we know this because when she wants something, she appears to get it.

It all comes down to what anything is worth to a Soul and for her something has to mean enough that she finally 'sees the light'. With her SN of the Moon in Virgo, she does not what it feels like to have nothing and to be nothing, or to feel like she will never amount to anything. I am wondering if those memories will ever lead to compassion, NN in Pisces, versus where things stand now.

Yes, hmmm...to turn the story upside down. She has already done that once. She was able to go from rags to riches. She can take those riches now and do something substantial with it. She surely can, but will she?

~Kristin

Hi All,

US NEWS BRIEF

Nancy Pelosi just regained Speaker of the House yesterday and reclaimed the gavel.
49 women gained seats, 48 of which were DEMOCRATS.

I feel a new wind blowing with Uranus retrograde at the tail end of Aries. Uranus stations direct in Aries on Monday, Jan.7. Prepare for a sea change of energy.

Nancy Pelosi is going to be 79 this year and she shows the men again why 'She's Boss'.

Pelosi's Original Lilith in 28 Cancer and it is conjunct PLUTO in Leo, she is nurturing the BLUE WAVE and the message that so many American want to hear. Her voice will be critical now to make the emotional and psychological shifts that this world needs.

She said, "We aren't building a wall, that's not who we are."

With her North Node of Lilith at 9 degrees of Capricorn, she has been and will be going toe to toe with Trump. She is a woman in a man's world and she is in charge again.

Her NN of Lilith is in Capricorn (just like Melania) a vivid example of how these energies can play out in light and in shadow.

Look at the image of our FUTURE ~ Minorities and Women.
GOP strategist freaks out that Dem majority "˜looks like our future' while GOP "˜looks like a board meeting' from the 1950s.

A new wind is indeed blowing!

~Kristin

Hi everyone, thank you for all the posts especially the ones about Lilith.  I can see I have a lot to catch up on.  I just read the posts about Melania Trump and I started to reflect on the Taurus archetype.  In her case I wonder if a great emptiness within her (Pluto/Virgo and SN/Virgo) is contributing to her overcompensating by filling up that emptiness with excessive materialism, resulting in an addiction to the luxe lifestyle.   Surely living a lie just to feed an addiction must be adding to the guilt she is already experiencing within her soul.  With her Venus in Taurus I am curious as to why her basic survival instinct has not trumped (ahem) her desire for a fancy lifestyle.  Is she not aware of her husband's allegiance to Satan?  If she is, it is stunning to think she is suppressing her survival instinct to live with someone so absolutely dangerous just so she can be materially gratified.  Or is she in denial about his satanism?  I also wonder why, if she is so attracted to that kind of lifestyle, she does not make the effort to make it happen on her own through Taurus self-effort.  Taurus laziness perhaps?  Virgo deep feelings of inadequacy?  Maybe both.  A practicing addict will do anything for their fix until someone intervenes or the light breaks through.  Let's hope that light does break through for Mrs. T.