Old EA Message Board

Hi Nerissa,

Just checking in to see how you are coming along with the post and what your timeline is.

Namaste,
Kristin

Hi Kristin,
thank you. Yes it would be very helpful if you can shed your light on it.

If i'm not mistaken seeing it, this older topic helped me confirm it

https://forum.schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/index.php/topic,835.0.html

Hi Helena,

Just wonderful what you are sharing. I just want to correct one thing you said about Amazon women having mythological origins. The reality is that there actually were, their own genetics, dna/rna, Amazon women in history that has been documented.

Here is a book that does just that: The Amazons: Lives and Legends of Warrior Women across the Ancient World

https://www.amazon.com/Amazons-Legends-Warrior-across-Ancient/dp/0691170274/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1546014083&sr=1-1&keywords=amazon+women


"In her groundbreaking book, Adrienne Mayor has gone above and beyond all past works in making the Amazon women of legend real. The stories of who the Amazons were, how they really lived, and why they loved their lives with such timeless vivacity make the reader of this sensational work want to stand up and raise her sword to the sky to cheer! Never before has one author so seamlessly merged the iconic lives and lore of the Amazons with genuine images, facts, and research. With the depth of a textbook and the easy conversational style of a good friend, Mayor rapidly dispels myths about one of the strongest female cultures in history while uplifting the hearts of readers with dreams of strength and adventure. The Amazons is an absolute must-have for any person who yearns to learn about how women in the ancient world really lived and for those modern heroes and heroines who will surely be inspired by the rich, vibrant history of our world's cultures."--Virginia Hankins, actress-stuntwoman

"The Amazons is a stupendous achievement--a long-anticipated centerpiece in the great puzzle of humankind. The story of these forbidden women, silenced for so long by the rigidity of traditional scholarship, is as exciting and surprising as a bestselling murder mystery; I simply couldn't put it down. Through scholarly brilliance and passion, Adrienne Mayor has opened the door to a forgotten world of gender equality, and her book ought to be required reading in every college history course."--Anne Fortier, author of The Lost Sisterhood: A Novel

"Nobody brings ancient history and archaeology to life like Adrienne Mayor. From the Russian steppes to China, and from Roman Egypt and Arabia to the Etruscans, she leads the reader on a breathtaking quest for the real ancient warrior women reflected in myths--their daring, archery, tattoos, fine horses, and independence from male control. The book's rich erudition, communicated in sparkling prose and beautiful illustrations, makes it a riveting read."--Edith Hall, author of Introducing the Ancient Greeks: From Bronze Age Seafarers to Navigators of the Western Mind

"Adrienne Mayor's inquiry into the myth--and surprising reality--of Amazon women begins with the fierce Greek huntress Atalanta, but takes us deep into the past and as far afield as the Great Wall of China. With the restless curiosity and meticulous scholarship that have become her hallmark, the author once again has found a gap in my bookshelf and filled it, admirably."--Steven Saylor, author of Raiders of the Nile: A Novel of the Ancient World

"Adrienne Mayor excels at demonstrating the truth that lies behind what seems simply storytelling, and there is no more exciting confrontation of myth and history than in the story of the Amazons. This is a great book--at once exhaustive, scholarly, thrilling, and imaginative, spanning the history, art, and imagination of ancient peoples from Italy to China."--John Boardman, University of Oxford

"One can only wonder at the courage and conviction of the ancient warrior women who dared to defy their peers, and who became such powerful inspirations that their memory lives on for millennia. We owe it to them to remember their stories. Adrienne Mayor's fabulous book illuminates a complex picture of ancient lives. It gives us the chance to understand these amazing female fighters, and to recognize their daughters in our midst, those who fight with courage and conviction for what they know is a better world."--Samantha "Swords" Catto-Mott, medieval long-sword champion and creator of special effects in film

"In this fascinating book, which combines flowing prose, a lively and engaging presentation, and wonderful illustrations, Adrienne Mayor brings the reader into the excitement of discovering the truth about the Amazons. She demonstrates quite convincingly that the Amazon traditions largely derive from the undeniable historical fact that nomadic, armed horsewomen existed on the fringes of the ancient Greek world. Mayor is the first to examine the evidence systematically and in detail and she makes a concrete and persuasive case."--William Hansen, author of Classical Mythology: A Guide to the Mythical World of the Greeks and Romans

"In this comprehensive account of the Amazons, Adrienne Mayor examines the subject in a way that no one else has done and presents overwhelming evidence that they were not entirely fictitious. Only Mayor has looked at the evidence from all the relevant fields to show how, together, they can solve what to each of them separately are complete mysteries. This will be the classic book on the subject for a very long time."--Elizabeth Wayland Barber, author of The Dancing Goddesses: Folklore, Archaeology, and the Origins of European Dance

**********

Amazons"•fierce warrior women dwelling on the fringes of the known world"•were the mythic archenemies of the ancient Greeks. Heracles and Achilles displayed their valor in duels with Amazon queens, and the Athenians reveled in their victory over a powerful Amazon army. In historical times, Cyrus of Persia, Alexander the Great, and the Roman general Pompey tangled with Amazons.

But just who were these bold barbarian archers on horseback who gloried in fighting, hunting, and sexual freedom? Were Amazons real? In this deeply researched, wide-ranging, and lavishly illustrated book, National Book Award finalist Adrienne Mayor presents the Amazons as they have never been seen before. This is the first comprehensive account of warrior women in myth and history across the ancient world, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Great Wall of China.

Mayor tells how amazing new archaeological discoveries of battle-scarred female skeletons buried with their weapons prove that women warriors were not merely figments of the Greek imagination. Combining classical myth and art, nomad traditions, and scientific archaeology, she reveals intimate, surprising details and original insights about the lives and legends of the women known as Amazons. Provocatively arguing that a timeless search for a balance between the sexes explains the allure of the Amazons, Mayor reminds us that there were as many Amazon love stories as there were war stories. The Greeks were not the only people enchanted by Amazons"•Mayor shows that warlike women of nomadic cultures inspired exciting tales in ancient Egypt, Persia, India, Central Asia, and China.

Driven by a detective's curiosity, Mayor unearths long-buried evidence and sifts fact from fiction to show how flesh-and-blood women of the Eurasian steppes were mythologized as Amazons, the equals of men. The result is likely to become a classic.

And here is a video on YouTube that does the same thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycvhEzHQ_aw

God Bless, Rad

Hi Helena,

Yes, it is true that all of us have sacred echoes in the archetypes of taurus, gemini and cancer, lilith south node's signs , although due to the fact the South Node of Lilith connects to our most recent past and the patriarchal past of thousands of years, the sacred expression of this energy is limited, in many respects the woman's thumbprint is unrecognizable. Which is why a thread such as this is so important, to help Souls remember in order to recover.

Even though we all share a South Node of Lilith in one of these signs, the South Node of Lilith can land in any of the 12 houses, remembering that the house comes first, the foundation of that sign. For example Pluto in the 1st in Virgo, the energy of the house comes first. You may have a client who has South Node of Lilith in Gemini, but if it is in the 8th house. It will operate in dramatically different ways than say a South Node of Lilith in Gemini in the 6th house. ( I am just wanting to remind readers of this )

Your analogy of a SN  of Lilith in Gemini, walked that road in the middle is just right and you can see with the natural trine to Libra and Aquarius, this would be true for the air signs, Libra the fence sitter and Aquarius more on the outskirts perhaps but definitely not IN the middle of anything. The airs signs are adept at observing and not totally committing in one direction or another. When we consider the Lilith in the 1st with a SN in Gemini, she will want to leave her options open.

I enjoyed your addition of using Pallas Athene here as she a Goddess strong in her use of the hands and the mind, a messenger through her intellectual and creative pursuits, feeding that need for diversity.

Nice addition too in looking at the other mutable energies and their relation to the SN of Lilith in Gemini can be 'running from herself', Virgo is making excuses why can can't be herself or criticizing her nature and feeling as if something is wrong with her, Sagittarius, not being honest with others so she can fulfill her need for diversity and Pisces, hiding from her nature so she is not judged an persecuted for it.

One reason as well that the SN of Lilith in Gemini Soul can lose her drive to finish something, apart from her need for diversity, is the doubt within her of not feeling smart enough, so she bails out. This is of course due to what the patriarchy has made her feel about herself.

Your wrote

This will allow them to also know their desires the moment they arise, because and by the fact they can be experimented and expressed to and with the other. It will be liberating when it is done. They probably will need to talk about how they feel and how they like to be touched and be very sensitive to the partner's hands as they relate to mind very directly, and specially for these women. They can discern very well the intentions/thinking/desires of the other just by the way they are being touched. Since her entire brain is an erogenous zone, what she listens from her partner is also closely related to how aroused she is and she will get sexuality aroused when she is able to trust a man that speaks the truth about how he is feeling, with no judgment to what these feelings are but the capacity to share each others truth. Within this trust, she can relax the mind and go with the body and body sensations.

Excellent. Words and the voice are incredibly powerful to unlock a deeper experience.

***

I will follow with an explanation seen in the myth why there is a North and South Node Lilith/Ceres correlation but in essence Ceres connects to Recovering Something Lost From the Past and so considering women's natures have been buried and repressed, this reflects a recovering of the power of the feminine root in women, as well as the feminine within a man.

When we see a nodal reverse of the Moon occur through transit, it symbolizes the future meets the past or the past meets the future, as in something from the past returning and being brought forward, re-worked,

Similar to the North Nodes of Pluto, Saturn and Jupiter being in Cancer, this reflects the world's need to return to the time of the Matriarchy, or more natural times when life was in far grater balance in every way, including gender roles and how the feminine and the masculine were expressed.

We can see themes of the balance being re-stored in many directions, repeating themes that are leading us back to a more natural state...in time it will happen.

***

This was a wonderful addition Helena. I thoroughly enjoyed your post and how you included Pallas Athene as a symbol for Gemini, Mercury, throat chakra. Well done as well on how you honed in on the distortions of this energy, sexuality included, as a we must understand where the Soul gets stuck in order to untangle the past, leading to a recovery of the way the energy was naturally designed to be expressed.

Thank you for being here..and for the wisdom you share!

Kristin

Yesterday I was going to post that I would have thoughts gathered @ south node Lillith in Gemini/3rd by today.....glad I did not.....Uranian happenings galore. But...tomorrow, end of the day, I will post.
Sorry if I am holding this thread up....

I want to thank Ari for his insights....I am curious: did you post because you have natal Lillith in the first and south node 3rd/gemini..or is this crazy synchronicity - ?
Last winter I was living in nature: it is utterly incredible, even to this daemon soul, how the veils are lifted so easily, so simply....

Bhaskara: others have said more, but, I am another voice to add: please contribute, be who you are: we value you
And....reading your post brought to mind a little epiphany type moment for me recently: in a gorge, a river, clear night, full moon: and: moody blues fan

so.....

this song 'dawning is the day' - I've heard it I don't know how many times....but THIS time..it hit home
starts very nature & simple but goes deep quick....

the lines that got me:
'baby there is no price upon your head
do it, shout it
now the angry words have been said
do it, don't doubt it'

There is no price upon your head, ie, a 'bounty': the universe isn't hunting you...let that go: be free: shout it, do it, don't doubt it!

And on top of that the lyrics continue in an odd vein: 'we think we can see you' 'we think we can hear you' 'we think we have FOUND you'

That night: full moon, beavers just having fun in the river, so bright: and feeling and KNOWING: there was no price on my head...and the more you clear negative, silly, masochistic thoughts: the more "THEY" can see, hear and FIND you.... I have added link to a youtube moody blues video of this song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce3ym7PnXRs

Rise, let us see you,
Dawning is the day.
Miss, misty meadow,
You will find your way.
Wake up in the morning, to yourself,
And leave this crazy life behind you.
Listen, we're trying to find you.
Flow to the sea,
You know where to go.
But still we are free,
No one tells the wind which way to blow.
Wake up in the morning to yourself,
Open your eyes and start to be you.
Listen, we think we can see you.
Baby there's no price upon your head,
Sing it, shout it,
Now the angry words have all been said,
Do it, don't doubt it.
So rise, let us see you,
Dawning is the day.
Miss, misty meadow,
You will find your way.
Wake up"¦

okay editing to add how tripped out I am at how these lyrics are so utterly naturally spiritual in nature....wow...I've never read the lyrics, just listened...'they' are trying to find us...flow to the sea, we know which way to go..but we are free..etc. WOW....

Hi Everyone,

Kristin, Rad, thank you so much for your words. It is really good to know this makes sense also to you because sincerely comes from my heart and soul...
Rad this that you posted is really interesting, I have already watched the video and it is impressive. An image that popped in my mind as how this memories are still alive today in our collective imagery is Daryl Hannah in Tarantino's movies :-) And other thing that stood out is how this women were fighters but not men haters and actually men lovers too in their own way, because I personally always felt this way, that women don't need to be against men to be their natural selves, of course that wouldn't exclude the fight for any kind of patriarchal distortion. Really nice to know this.

Kristin, thank you too... as usual I always have to read your answers more then once and receive new meaning each time... To know more about this Ceres seems important.

Nerissa, Heather, waiting on your posts too. We really do all learn from each other, each of us is unique with a distinct voice coming out of the roads we've been traveling, that's what makes us whole in this journey. And I think is no coincidence three of us started to explore all of this... Hope more people can join in too.

I have also enjoyed Ari's insights, thank you Ari for sharing your experience this way, and would like to comment further on the questions you pose, specially when it comes to shame and do so as soon as I have a little time.

Thank you,
Helena

I said I'd post so I am: however my brain feels like.......well, there is nothing truly dead so not sure I have an analogy!
This post is more stream of consciousness which I apologize for: but this, or nothing. Better something than nothing.
I haven't read the other posts - was tempted to, but found it odd with the first assignment....felt everything had been said so it was hard to post anything further.
I won't be surprised if I try to clean up my post come the morning.....
I am reminded of that movie "Miss Petigrew lives for a day" when she is trying to and very anxious to leave and says something to the effect of 'The current crisis has been averted, good day' and the gal she is hired to help says 'But the crisis is ongoing!'......very Virgo words, and pretty much how I feel. So this is what I've got under the circumstances.
Thanks!!!

The intention of SN of Lillith in Gemini relative to the natal Lillith in Aries is to incorporate the multiplicity of exposure to ideas, opinions, intellectual orientations to reality that will reflect and lead to a direct experience of who they are innately.
There will be no more intellectual ideology or posturing that does not reflect that actual nature of their souls.

A soul with SN Gemini has created reality of being free to experiment with it's identity, to be fluid, to be open to all possible orientations, to not limit itself. This soul would welcome all manner of ideas, opinions, they are oriented to opening their mind.

But this also suggests they must need to: there are issues here with previously being close minded, to allowing other opinions to affect them, to judge other's if they did not fit their opinions.
So this soul attracts many different souls, experiences, ideas and orientations to human life that will challenge their limitations.

This soul would have alternately embraced or rejected this need:

If they have embraced it the soul with the natal placement in the first would experience a true awakening of who they are via experience: not mental conjecture or posturing"¦...they will filter what they have learned through themselves via direct experience of themselves in their lives
If the soul previously rejected this need: they will find themselves constantly confronted with ideas, opinions that differ with them, that challenge them, that require them to look within to know who they innately are, what THEY not "˜believe' but know to be the truth for themselves, as relative as it may be in the moment. They will butt their "˜aries' head against many people trying to enact their own series of opinions & ideas that aren't really who they are: it's what they incorporated from others via past lives"¦"¦they will be confronted with anything false: this will be utterly direct"¦.there will be no intellectual "˜shield' they may feel totally attacked"¦.
This requires them to reflect: use that intellect to understand their own motivations and desires, and not project them...

to further it's evolution the soul has needed to attract differing views: this may have been either accepted easily or 'shut down' according to any already existing beliefs, ways of being
given the natal current node is in Aries, this suggests the soul must find it's own unique path from the multiplicity of experiences, thoughts, ideas, people it's been exposed to...to find what THEY inherently are

with Lillith in this position given the nature of current humanity: there has been distortion of truth into ideologies that are adhered to......so many ideas, so many ways to 'back up' what they think that has no basis in natural truth. So this placement could show a huge showdown between limiting beliefs and their own aggression - defending false beliefs.

This aggression will come right back to them until their intellectual hubris is worn down"¦..to open to who they are. This might well genuinely frighten this soul - they may fear themselves more than anyone.

This placement indicates the simple fact of feeling limited by their culture as to what they could think, believe, do etc
The natural desire with Lillith here is to be open: but the strictures of society may make these souls feel stifled, feel like there is no 'truth' but going through the motions of the 'ritual' without understanding WHY - these souls want the information, but they need to know where THEY fit (Aries natal) to evolve.....
I think there is general trauma with this placement, at least at this time with those Nodes of Uranus in these signs...
a huge dichotomy between the 'motions' gemini and the truth 'sag'....

Sexually these people are open - they naturally are curious, they want to, and have experimented....Lillith here suggests a natural what we now call 'bisexual'....because of current society this natural state has been demonized....given the natal aries placement these souls would be required to confront their sexuality and be honest in what ways they've allowed the 'perversion' of the natural dual nature within themselves: either via repression or externally judging others...but their own innate desire will remain: they want utter freedom

In any negative manifestations these souls may regurgitate and judge others in ways that they have been judged: classic projection....(those uranus nodes, plus aries first house correlations)

if they cannot be free, or accept who they are naturally...be repressed - sadism could be present in their sexual lives because they cannot accept because of 'ideas' and judgment of society of who they innately are: this will become distorted (the rest of mutable cross)....that which is innately natural becomes repressed
Within relationships, these souls are adept at using words, information and ideas to back what they say, they can be charismatic - in the negative they can use this quality deliberately  appear other than what they are, or what they feel despite the intellectual words and thoughts......

With lillith in this placement, and in negative manifestation, the rage could be intense sadistic sexual practices: using the air quality to project their sexuality onto others (intellectual distancing via Gemini)......

ideally, with a healthy lillith - the natural duality of the sexes would be expressed within the souls own egocentric drive: a sifting of what they are, what they are not: a total acceptance, not just of themselves but just how 'multifarious' people, life, reality, sexuality are in actual life: no judgment...within that acceptance they still know who THEY are...not just in relation to the thoughts, the opinions........they know the truth via expereince and evolve via the pure expression of who they are - not 'willy nilly' because they have exposed themselves to other ideas and way of being, and not in fear of judgment for being different....

These are souls who can be utterly sexually healing to others: they get both sides of the coin"¦...there is no division or "˜roles': it's all one in blissful union"¦"¦..all creeds, sexes, orientations accepted with no judgment...given the mutable cross to sag, pisces and virgo: definitely possible past lives of utterly understanding the mechanics of sexual spirituality

Hi Nerrisa,

Thank you for posting, I realize it is a busy time of year but your energy and efforts here are valued and truly appreciated.

When I participated in threads in the past, I too would not want to read posts of others until after I was finished because it did have a way of interrupting my train of thought or feeling of flow within what I was trying to write about. We can all say the same thing in a different way through our own unique lens and this allows others to take in the teachings more wholly.

***

In this thread, we are looking at a SN of Lilith in Gemini as it comes through the Asteroid Lilith in Aries so it was good that you were working to express it in this way. This was a great way to combine the energies of Aries/Gemini.

You wrote  A soul with SN Gemini has created reality of being free to experiment with it's identity, to be fluid, to be open to all possible orientations, to not limit itself

As well how you described how the distorted SN in Gemini due to repression of energy would have them attracting people that went against their natural grain and challenged their thoughts and beliefs. This would remind them of who they are not and what is true for them, and indeed people coming at them with ideas or beliefs that were not in alignment with what they felt to be true for them would cause them to react Aries style.

Yes, it is very true about the trauma that can be caused for the SN of Lilith in Gemini, in terms of going through the motions as you say, this feeling that THERE MUST BE MORE THAN THIS! The feeling that there must be something MORE, the something MORE is the truth of who they are and the connection to Spirit that lives within this truth. Without that, the Virgo void is felt in full.

You wrote

These are souls who can be utterly sexually healing to others: they get both sides of the coin"¦...there is no division or "˜roles': it's all one in blissful union"¦

Yes, in a healthy expression, this would be true.

Thank you Nerissa, well done, we are all growing and gaining from your unique and wise voice.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin

Hi All,

One thing I would like to add here as we have all talked about the power of words have with a Soul in this case, and it is important to point out through the distortions, that it is words that have severely damaged the Soul psyche. Let's take for example a woman being burned at the stake. For a Soul who has a South Node of Lilith in Gemini, it would be the words people were shouting at her as she is dying that would prove to injure her more than the fire burning her flesh, the words will make a more permanent mark. This leads to a negative VIRGO programming about who she is as a woman in the world. The negative programming rendering her powerless. It is this wounding with words that she carries with her into her next life. She would rather take the bullet than have to listen to words that feel like someone is twisting the dagger or in some cases making her feel like she is going to go crazy if she hears one more word uttered. The words trigger the trauma, they trigger the event, and they trigger the entire emotion linked with the event(s), all with the message that there must be something terribly wrong with her.

Peace,
Kristin

Thank you Kristin so much for your insight, guidance & kind words!
After I posted....I thought maybe I should not have: if I cannot bring my all perhaps nothing is better considering what others are doing
My instinct was to take this placement & put it in the various evolutionary states: I think the gemini quality made me feel that need, but it just wasn't going to happen - frustrating....

I am glad what I posted was okay & acceptable....however, not surprisingly....I do believe I won't be in cell range etc. in any regular basis as it turns out after all....
Life explodes implodes every couple days in my neck of the woods: to disentangle requires another extreme measure.....
If I can, as I can, I will participate if that is okay......I will follow as I can, & look forward to the journey!

ETA Kristin: what you said about words resonates with me, in my birth chart: lillith is in balsamic conjunction to Mercury & pluto in the 6th trining Mars in Gemini...opposite Pallas in the 12th plus that Mars squaring Virgo sun & opposing Neptune...yep, just saying: I know very well that of which you speak!

Hi Everyone,

Thank you all for the encouragement but I just feel like I need to heal more and get clearer so I can contribute better... I'm here as love and I try to share that the best I know how... Thank you for sharing these teachings with all...

Heather

Hi Nerissa,

QuoteI want to thank Ari for his insights....I am curious: did you post because you have natal Lillith in the first and south node 3rd/gemini..or is this crazy synchronicity - ?

The answer is yes (-;
Instigated by a chat with Kristin and genuine desire to examine this archetype in my own soul. This conversation and the teachings shared on this thread were perfect timing with my own soul timing to look at these things - which happens to be perfect timing with exactly where the thread is at... and then of course with the clients I've since worked with who happen to have a very prominent Lilith in their charts... and so goes the never ending oneness ...

Hi All,

I am posting the chart of Melania Trump who has her natal Lilath in Gemini, her S.Node of Lilath is 7 Gemini conjunct her natal Mars, AND HER NATAL LUCIFER which is then conjunct her natal Venus/Mercury in Taurus. These are in opposition to her Neptune in Sagittarius, and square her Lunar Nodal Axis with the S.Node in Virgo, the N.Node in Pisces, with Neptune also forming squares to these Lunar Nodes.

Of course she is married to Donald Trump who has in fact made a contract with Evil: Lucifer. His N.Node of Lucifer in Pisces in his 7th House conjuncts Melania's Lunar North Node in Pisces. Her natal Lilath at 24 Gemini conjucts his Sun, Uranus, and North Node, and is opposed his Moon and S.Node in Sagittarius in his 4th House. That Moon  is the ruler of his natal Venus, Saturn, and Lucifer in Cancer in his 11th. That N.Node of Lucifer in Pisces is then ruled by his 2nd House Neptune which then conjuncts Melania's natal Uranus, and conjuncts her natal Pluto which is at 25 Virgo.

They both have their natal Venus's conjunct their natal Lucifer's.

Clearly this is a manifestation of the distorted Lilath for Melania Trump. In essence, she has 'married' a Soul who has made a contract with Evil: his Faustian Deal. What does this say about her ?

What I see here are two souls who have gotten enmeshed. They have both become attracted to each other's "evils", relative to each other's needs. He is controlling her voice and she is cooperating due to the enmeshmeshment. . I notice asteroid Amazon is very near Trump's Lilith.  His desire is to control and traumatize strong women, which I feel Melania is, but she is not being "permitted" to speak. He controls her.  Her north node of Venus is sitting on her natal mercury, and so this what she must learn to do for herself: find her own authority in her voice and exercise it.  Relative to her enmeshment with Trump it would be a primary tool to liberate her from the clutches of a man who wants to keep her natural power down. Her voice. There is also a chance she could choose to be his voice however he orders, but that will lead to trauma within herself..and others

Stacie

Stacie - it's interesting because I see your point of view....thing is I was thinking sorta the opposite of what you said! So, I appreciate the different perspective....

My instinct with her is that she has developed the negative side of Lillith all on her own - reminds me maybe a bit of Yoko Ono, her own soul history might mirror it a bit: trauma...and the lack of taking responsibility that leads to rage & justifying their rage and actions..

I see her being attracted to Trump's evil....I see her riding his coat tails so to speak....I don't think she enjoys the role of first lady AT ALL: being a public servant is not what she signed up for!!

I think it's possible she is one of the few or even only person who is 'allowed' to talk down to trump, be angry or put him in his place......I even think she could be more 'developed' in evil than he is.....

She is his 'bride' - the bride of evil.....

BUT....having said all that - I realize I could be very wrong....

What you say makes sense too......it's just from what I know about her I don't think she's a genuinely kind, caring person: in her own ways she is always supporting trump, the birther stuff - or what about that coat she wore - horribly insensitive.....

Well....be interesting to hear other's input too!

As far as astro correlations: basically what you & Rad have already pointed...lucifer/venus....north node interactions....you have a good point about her NN & Mercury......it's possible she hooked up with evil because he was an agent & she felt she had no other options or choices and now is addicted to the situations he's enabled & given her over many lifetimes....

ETA: maybe it was SHE lifetimes ago that was the agent of evil to lure Trump...just something very 'accomplished' about her: she isn't under ANYONE'S thumb

Also, despite not being all that much of a public servant or all that 'nice' she somehow manages to dodge criticism and garners sympathy....

....Maybe your take is right, Stacie: it's a gut feeling people have that she is subjected to Trump...or just maybe she eludes censure because of the help of what is termed 'evil powers' etc. that protect her & create an illusion she can hide behind?? That she is 'ok' and is more the victim than the victor....

Regardless: Trump is attracted to her precisely because of her strong negative Lillith energy....guess you could say, whatever Melania is: he deserves her!

hmmm - looking forward to see how this discussion plays!