Old EA Message Board

Hi Maggie,

A very good effort. Your analysis is all within the realm of the archetypes within this paradigm.


God Bless, Rad

Pluto in the 7th house symbolizes a soul that feels secure while in relationship with others.  And so compulsively feels the need to maintain relationships at all costs, which leads to extremities within the relationships and ultimately experiencing allot of pain and suffering as a result.  In order to heal these wounds this person would need to embrace the polarity point (1st H) by recognizing that the only way they are to ever find balance in relationships with others, is to realize that time alone is essential to their well being. Because it is through the courageous act of initiating a relationship with themselves first, that the healing can truly begin. Once they start exploring: through initiating new experiences, a new landscape will emerge from the depths of their souls, and a greater awareness of their own unique individuality will likely form.  This process will help the person then be able to be in relationships with others, but in a healthy way because they now have a stronger sense of self, who they are as an individual, what their needs are ect...
South Node in the 6th house symbolizes that this is a soul coming from a place where it has gained a strong sense of  identity with it's work function and of being of service to others through whatever that work assignment is.  In other words this soul is consumed by all the details of whatever their work is and therefore their awareness of who they are remains limited.  The North Node in the 12th suggests that this person must look up at the night sky!  Contemplate it for a while.  They need to develop the spiritual realm as part of their every day reality, If they want to experience health and a sense of well-being in this life. 

Hi treesha,

Your analysis is very brief and limited is scope but is fine for what it is. I would suggest that you read the archetypes in JWG's first Pluto book: Pluto through the houses. This will deeper your consciousness and allow for a much fuller understanding of this, and other paradigms, that we will be working with. Thanks for making the effort.

God Bless, Rad

Thanks Rad, for the feedback!

All,

If any of you wish to continue with our practice charts for beginner's please let me know.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,
I wish to continue with this thread.
Right now I am going to begin with the last paradigm, as I have told you.
But as soon as I finish with it -  next week-end I believe - I will be ready for the next one in the following week.
Thanks so much
Mirta

I would like to continue, as I just jumped back in and would like to practice.  Thanks Rad.

WEndy

Hi Rad and Group
Thanks for the tolerance to my delay.

Rad,
Here is what I could see in this paradigm.Thanks for your assesment.

PLuto in 7th House, SN in 6th House
PPP in 1st House, NN in 12th House

Pluto in 7th House
This Soul is living a new cycle of evolution, and that has been already so in prior lifetimes.
We can see that not only because Pluto is in a cardinal house, but also because the Soul is initiating the archetypal phase form 7th to 12th House (LIbra to Pisces), phase of objective orientation.
Thus, the individual is learning to develop an objective awareness of her/him, and lessons of relativity and equality.
In order to learn that, thius Soul has already been involved in many relationships, that motivated her exposure to other's value systems, ideas, beliefs and emotional patterns.
Yet, the individual continues to initiate relationships in order to learn about her/his identity by comparison and contrast. This way, the evolutionary lesson of objectivity can be learned.
This process teaches her/him to identify reality as it exists for others, and so be able to know how and what to give them accordingly to their reality.
This is crucial because of the need to integrate into society and operate in relationships as an equal instead of on a dominant or subservient basis (Pluto in 7th, SN in 6th).
This is a central point for this Soul in the current lifetime, because in order to attain objectivity and equality all traces of egocentricity and subjective orientation to life must be purged.
I wonder if the evolutionary intent is in a way to "complete" the 6th house transitional work but puttting already the core focus in 7th house, if it could be an example of what you and Steve said that Pluto's evolution through the houses is not linear, but the core themes  sometimes reappear in interchanged positions.
This individual has the need to complete the self through relationships. This can manifest in a distorted form as the need to be needed, if the fulfilling of emotional needs is displaced projecting it onto the partner.
As the Soul is learning balance through a pendular movement between extremities, this individual may:
-Dominate a partner with her/his own self-centered needs, thus excluding the other's needs and manipulating the relationship making him/her codependent, and even losing his/her sense of personal needs and identity, or
-Becoming the alter-ego of the partner. In this case, the individual feels that by meeting the needs of the partner she/he is havingf her/his own needs meet.
The Soul has alternated these types of relationships in prior lifetimes and continues to do it until finding balance and equality.

SN in 6th House
This attitudes interweave with guilt feelings and create sado-masochistic relationship patterns.
Although I tend to see a masochistic position here, I believe that the paradigm itself can manifest also in a sadist position. Other chart (and life experience)elements are necesssary to define it.
The first case, when the individual is dominant, can have different motivations considering 7th house, but if it is related to a guilt feeeling , we find a sadist position, in which he feels guilty yet superior, and then reacts form the anger he feels blaming the partner. He will then hurt and humilliate the other in order not to be hurt, and punish the partner as a form of self punishment.
On the other hand, in 6th house the soul is learning necessary lessons of humility. And if instead of true humility the individual lives it as humilliation and if it interweaves with the guilt feeelings the masochistic position is very possible.
The individual then feels inferior, and guilty, and tries to atone for this guilt. Together with the cyclical crisis she/he maybecome subservient to the partner; and therefore living to fulfill the other's needs and even becoming an alter-ego. This way she will be trying to atone for her guilt.

This Soul feels an 'essential void', that is more than a just basic aloneness, and that intensifies its compulsive need to be in relationships, intending to fill this void.

Through 6th house experiences the Soul also develops discrimination ability, very necessary to find individual's identity and to establish adequate realtionships.

This Soul has a real need to be of service. She needs learn to be of service in a way that is truly helpful to others, yet is nor self-destructive.
Being truly helpful means giving that kiund of help that the other really needs, accordingly to her/his reality.

PP in 1st House
To develop the evolutionary intent this Soul must overcome its security patterns, daring self-discovery and learning to make her own decisions, not depending on other's opinions.
The individual needs to take her way alone in order to fulfill her/his own special destiny, minimizing her dependence on the partner to do it.
She/he must also not controlling or interfere with partner's decisions or autonomy.
Embracing the PP teaches to overcome fears and to recognize her/his inner strength; teaches also to supply personal needs.
All this will help to find the courage to develop her own identity in an independent manner; and therefore create independent and equality based relationships.
In that sense, the PP also reflect the need to learn when to give and when not. NN in 12 th house lessons on when to serve and when not are a fundamental way to attain it. Overcoming the need to be needed is also necessary to that.
PP in 1st House requires and encourages choosing partners who have the capacity to actualize their own life by their own means, and who also encourage mutual independence.
All this lessons help this Soul to be in relationships in a self secure manner, being able to ask its own questions form within(NN's looking within is a way to it), aiding discovering or recovering individual's identity and encouraging the partner to do the same.

NN in 12th HOuse
This Soul develops the PP by looking inside and dissolving emotional barriers; by dissolving guilt patterns and self centeredness that prevent finding individual identity and acknowledging other's reality; dissolving self- centered inner dialogues that condition the way it listens to the partner.
NN also helps establishing an adequate awareness of her/his place in the universe, I mean that her/his relationship with the universe and with Divinity will give her/him an adequate perspective of her place in relationships.
This can also give an adequate measure or proportion of her/his responsibility (instead of guilt).
Awareness of adequate priorities is another important attainment that this node promotes and necessary to acknowledge her needs and desire, thus her independence and self-determination.
12th house experience of intrinsec alonenenss teaches the necessary lesson that only a relationship with the Divine can fill the interior void, and helps to overcome the compulsive tendency to be in relationships  to fill it.
The relationship with the Divine avoids also the risk to convert the partner in a defacto god.
Awareness of the All promotes sincere humility, differentiating it from humilliation that promotes subservient behavior or a masochistic position.
In opposition to 6th house criticism, 12th house teaches self-forgivenes and tolerance for all our faults, imperfections and mistakes. Once we learn these lessons, it will be reflected in the Soul's  behavior with others.
The individual will then be able to love herself and others unconditionally, overcoming the 7th house distortion of conditional love.
This all will develop a clear awareness of the Soul's relationships with others, thus learning a fundamental lesson of discernment and when to serve and when not, so important within this paradigm.
God Bless
Mirta

Hi Mirta,

Bravo Mirta, bravo ! Your analysis is exceptional, and your capacity of being able to synthesize the interactions within the paradigm as a whole is exceptional as well. It is a great pleasure to experience your own evolution within Evolutionary Astrology. Bravo !

God Bless, Rad

Thanks so much, Rad!
I am very happy for being able to reasoning within this wonderful evolutionary and helping tool that is EA.
And above all for beginning to be up to the great privilege of your teaching, assesment and orientation.
I am very grateful.
God Bless
MIrta

Hi Practice Chart Group,

Ok, let's start on another paradigm with Pluto in the 2nd House, the S.Node in the 5th, Pluto's polarity point is the 8th House, and the N.Node is in the 11th. Let's have a go at it.

God Bless, Rad

Hi everyone.

I have been following many of the postings here and I have found it greatly awarding. Since I'm now trying to be more sincere in my effort towards applying my self to EA I thought I jump in and give it a go. I have viewed the first segment in the DVD course but have not made any attempts do do the homework. My name is Henrik and I'm from Sweden. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.


Pluto in 2nd House; SN in 5th House;
PPP in 8th House; NN in 11th House.

Pluto in 2nd has had a series of lifetimes where the Soul has desired to subjectively identify it's own resources and values to sustain themselves on the physical and emotional plane. Why? The Soul has desired to look within and consolidate the essence of what is "me" contrasted to the changing scenery around them.
In terms of archetypes what you have is the Taurus (2nd House) (Fixed and Yin)/ Scorpio (Pluto) (Fixed and Yin) synthesis. Thus, even though PPP is in the 8th House, you already have an influence of the Scorpio archetype just because of Pluto. Thus, we have an enormous focus of energy inwards. Why? The Soul now wants to direct attention to that which we can identify as our own.

Assuming that the person has identified some resources, the SN in the 5th house means that the person has tried to creatively actualize those resources or talents that the person has identified as its own; to actually project them outwards to the world. Because it is the SN this also means that the person has been "successful" at doing it; the person feels secure at doing things this way. It also means that the focus has been extremely self-oriented and that the person has not been able to recognize others who are creative or others with resources and talents that are different than our person. Also, because the SN is in a fixed house, there is a real risk (unless mitigating factors exist) that whatever resources and talents that have been identified will be rooted (2nd House) and centered (SN in 5th) in consciousness and that the person may have a hard time seeing anything outside of its own reality (i.e. personal limitations).

The PPP in the 8th house points to the next step in evolution. The archetype of Scorpio involves personal limitation. Having identified one's own resources and values, the next step is to realize the how and why as it pertains to the identification of those particular resources and values. Once the how and why is realized, the Scorpio archetypes involves the transformation of limitations. But let's not forget that whatever house Pluto is found, this is an area where the Souls has probably lived a number of lives in and thus feels some level of security at. Thus, change is only going to happen as the person starts to feel that things are not working for them anymore in regards to this area. In other words, there will be signs of internal or external confrontation in these areas.

The NN in the 11th house combined with the PPP in the 8th house ultimately leads to the objective awareness of how to transform one's limitations inherent in the Pluto 2nd house and to link those new ways of looking at one self and one's purpose as an individual with that of the larger group. However, unless the sign of the SN or Pluto is in a mutable sign or other mitigating factors (being that both the 2nd house Pluto and the 5th house SN are fixed houses) evolution may occur mostly through ego blows and other shocks. Such confrontations will be aimed at forcing the individual inwards (Pluto) to examine their personal limitations and their overly egocentric view of their purpose to creative actualize who they are. The reason change is necessary is that the person has gotten overly identified with the resources (security). It has worked for them through many lives. This is no longer the case and so the person is thrown back on themselves.

How change will occur is seen through the NN in the 11th house and so we can see that society will prevent the person from actualizing his special destiny until there is a transference from the subjective to the objective. As long as the pyramid structure is maintained, the individual will not be acknowledged for her/his creative endeavors. The self-narcissistic view of the world needs to be altered into a more detached view and the person needs to develop into becoming a member of society. The PPP in the 8th will actually help in this process because the (unconscious) desire to evolve will manifest itself through life situations whereby the person is exposed to whatever personal limitations that exists and how they have identified with those limitations.

Hi Henrik,

First, it wonderful that you have decided to participate in our little practice chart group.

Your analysis is very accurate relative to the spectrum of the various archetypes within this paradigm, and your synthesize of these archetypes is just as accurate. One word that you could have used, and I am sure it was within your consciousness anyway, relative to the 8th House polarity with the N.Node in the 11th facilitating it, is objectification. In other words, one of the core reasons that such a Soul would design necessary confrontations to itself by others is to help the Soul objectify it's subjective reality. In so doing this then given the Soul an opportunity to 'liberate' from those preexisting orientations to the reality of itself, and others.

Good job Henrik.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad.

Thank you for those encouraging and constructive comments. I realize that I haven't adressed the different levels of evolution and the variety of ways that these archetypal configurations would have played out. I'm trying to keep it simple for now and concentrate one the core issues.

Once again, thanks, and I feel thrilled to be able to participate 

All the best...

Henrik

Hi Rad,
Here is my practice. As always, your feedback is essential to furthering my evolution.
Thanks so much.

Pluto in 2nd House, SN in 5th House; PP in 8th House, SN in 11th House
General Understanding: this is a fixed paradigm; the 4 positions are in fixed houses.
I tend to see it analogous to a fixed grand cross. Thus, powerful inner strength and self-determination, but also stubbornness and rigidity, at least great resistance to change.
This resistance to changes has different manifestations in each evolutionary condition:
Consensus stage: rigidity, resisting to change emotional patterns and situations in the material plane, social structures and society conditioning patterns.
Individuated stage is Uranian, and Uranus doesn't easily express itself in fixed signs and houses personally orientated as Taurus and Leo.
However, it may be firmness and determination in liberating from consensus society's conditioning relative to individual's inner valuation and validation, and in affirming the individual or individuated point of view.
In the Spiritual stage the characteristic energy returning to the center and the strong will force will be of great help in threading the spiritual path.
There will be great concentration in meditation and also leading to internal and external action.
The will and determination in changing past patterns of behavior, destroying the old and building new ones may be constantly furthering detachment and evolution.

Generally speaking, I see it as a paradigm of evolution form subjectivity to objectivity, from focus no I to involvement and acknowledgment of the Other (other people, society, other powers, other's power, transpersonal and Universal power; other's values, other's reality, other's needs).


Pluto in 2nd House: The previous desire and evolutionary need was to develop self reliance and self sustainment.
In prior lives this soul has been learning to identify its values and individual needs in order to develop these qualities of self-reliance and self sustainment. It has been grounding its sense of identity.
The individual came to this lifetime with this self-reliance (although not always aware of it), and a great need to survive and self sustaining in the physical plane and also in the emotional plane.
She/he had the need to withdraw in former lives and will be attracted by (to?) withdrawal experiences in this life.
This withdrawal had the aim to interiorize its awareness focus in order to discover her/his needs and values within. But she/he may do (or did) it in a very subjective self-concentration (SN in 5th H.)
This self-rooted way of living and finding her own values leads to the feeling her/his own essence as different from the flow of environmental circumstances.
This, in turn, would have created the "frog in the well" karma, i.e. the individual came to this life with a limited vision of him and life that constitutes a security pattern. She/he trusts in it, because it works.
May be this limited vision led to a environmental recognition (SN in 5th H.), but I can create inertia or laziness and, specially with this SN, a great resistance to "jumping out of the well" and fear to lose the recognition that she/he desperately needs.
This soul, in this moment of its evolution may have a great resistance to change past patterns of behavior because of the insecurities that it produces.

This person is learning to establish an adequate inner relationship with itself and an inner orientation to life. In order to do this, she/he is choosing and affirming  her/his values and what is of meaning.
Therefore, she/he is trying to find the essential need to survival.
The survival instinct creates the need to become self-reliant and self-sustaining.
Then, she is establishing what she/he needs to:
a) Physical survival:
In Consensus stage material values are the means for individual independence.
In Individuated stage, the soul learned to identify with personal resources that create the means for individual independence.
In Spiritual condition the Soul is aware that the universe, the Source, provides what is necessary for self-sustaining when receptive to It.
Limitation is always implicit in 2nd House experience. But in Consensus, where there is identification with material values, the limitation is in the values themselves.
B) Procreation instinct:
As part of the survival instinct this individual is learning lessons relative to the procreation instinct, lessons related to her/his sexual values.
She/he has a strong sexual nature and physical inclination.
The evolutionary intent requires that she/he learns to relate and unite with a partner in an emotional way. Indeed, her emotional power leads naturally to strong physical and sexual needs. And she needs to liberate energy through the activities and functions correlated to the 8th House PP in order to achieve emotional stability.
Even when involved with another person, this individual may have a masturbatory activity as a way to relate with himself. Masturbation may become a frequent and intense activity if the procreation and sexual instinct correlates with self-reliance.
There is a risk that this person uses her/his sexual or emotional power in order to possess or manipulate other people. This can be made by sexually attracting in order to obtain something or even by denying sexual activity.
The Soul is also learning lessons of inner relationship with itself. This relationship correlates with how the individual is inwardly vibrating and listening to her/himself, her inner dialogue; dialogue and vibration that are the causative factors of the relationships she/he attracts.
In turn, this inner vibration is based on our values. Thus, if she/he is overidentified with material, external values, the distortion of relating to her/him and others as objects, as possessions may create use and manipulation in relationships. Using sexuality as a way to possess or manipulate is a distortion derived from that orientation. Also masturbation, because of the difficulty of relating to another persona on a deep, emotional, ego-transcending way.

Manipulation, I believe, is more possible in Consensus stage, but not only.
In Consensus the individual is less aware, or even unaware, of her/his unconscious projections, and of course of her/his own individuality.
Thus, the distortion of treating himself and her/his partner as an object is more probable and so is the tendency to manipulate from his subjective or selfish point of view and needs.
In Individuated stage, individuation is being achieved by recovering projections. The Soul is learning to objectivize (or objectify) her consideration of the other (I mean, not subjective, not considering him as an object, but viewing him objectively in her individuality and with his reality).
And therefore the individual can establish sexual relationships based not only in his strong physical and procreative impulse, but in a deep emotional commitment (8th House PP) with a partner; and relating as a way of transcending the personal ego, at least in this one-to-one relationship.
Manipulation may still appear, but less and less as evolution proceed.
In Spiritual condition sexual energy is not experienced as physical (although there may be physical procreation), but as a sacred energy originated in God and a way to returning to Him.
Instead of a relieving physical manifestation, sexual energy ascends through the chakras, opening the Love center in the hearth and the higher centers to receiving the Light.
Sexual relationship is experienced as a consciousness expansion for the partners, a way to unite themselves in the union with the Divine.  
Tantric yoga, Taoist or other spiritual sexuality techniques are necessary and helpful.
There is not possibility for manipulation. (Or there is in 2nd. Spiritual substage?)

SN in 5th House: This soul has been learning to creatively actualize itself in a self-reliant manner. If this crucial lesson is not already learned, stress might still be experienced.
The individual needs to be self-reliant and self sustaining instead of expecting another person to actualize her/his capacities.
Also, materialist values (2nd. house) that promote self interest and exclusion will create a narcissistic creative actualization process.
If laziness or inertia in actualizing her /his life by her/his own means manifest, other distortions in relationships can occur, because this soul needs (and has needed) to take control of its special destiny and actualize it out of the strength of the will.
The individual needs to establish and project her/his creative objective in the environment, but aware of the desire and evolutionary need of attaining this goal form within. So, he needs creatively actualize himself in a self reliant manner from within.
This means not projecting this need onto other persons, not expecting other people doing it for him, and also not expecting recognition or flattering for it or to it.
This individual was born with a strong need of being recognized and treated as special. If
self-reliance is not attained, if insecurities remain,  she/he may be like a "bottomless pit" of compulsive needs of attention and flattering. Manipulating others to satisfy these needs may be a frequent behavior.
Selfishness and egocentricity may also manifest. The self- centered and/or narcissistic creative actualization related to  2nd house self-sufficiency need may lead this person to believing he/she is the source of his own creativity. The subjective individualized (not individuated) power is felt in its maximum expression.
This is of course a limitation (although her/his belief is the contrary) from an universal point of view, and can also produce a feeling of powerlessness if he doesn't attain her/his goals, or even to attain them.
A most possible problem with this individual can be related to his way of giving. SN in 5th house can manifest a self-centered form of giving, i.e. the individual only gives to another in order to have her/his own self-centered needs met. Or at least, and almost surely, he will give to another according to his/her own reality, not what the other needs.
This in turn will promote a negative feedback from others, and the consequent emotional confrontations needed to weaken the pyramidal structure of reality, and perhaps she/he will then experience the powerlessness (8th house PP) that leads her/him to recognize that he needs to consider the other (NN in 11th house) and therefore transform powerlessness in a shared power (PP in 8th house).
If the 2nd house need of identifying his own capacities, self worth and self reliance has been met, it will be possible to establish values of a nonconditioned nature and thus helping others in a selfless way, identifying also the other's reality and needs.

PP in 8th House: The frog needs to pull out of the well. For evolution to proceed, this Soul needs to confront and purge all internal limitations that are preventing growth.
The PP promotes the awareness of why the individual is relating to himself in that way and why she/he has these values. The internal and external confrontations are intended to produce this awareness, that her/his pre-existing orientation to life and limitations are causing the current behavior and problems.
This Soul needs learning to merge itself and its resources with others in such a way that it adds to what it and others are. In order to it the individual has to learn self-reliance. He will then learn to unite without depending on the person or power to whom she/he has united.
This way she/he will be transmuting and overcoming the limitations she/he brought to this lifetime.

NN in 11th House: The individual will be able to overcome and transform her/his limitations by learning objectivity.
She/he needs to develop and objective awareness of her/himself in general and specially to detach from the pyramid reality structure she/he created. This way she/he will be able to acknowledge the creativity and capcities of others without feeling threatened in her/his own self-reliance.
She/he needs to detach from her/his emotions, subjectivity, narcissism and need of recognition and acceptation.
Other's reality will then be recognized and accepted, and selfless giving will be possible, while manipulations become unnecessary.
She/he will then become aware of is really inherent and unique within her/himself and be able to express and actualize the Soul's inherent and unique individuality; thus being able to relate to her/himself and others in a self-reliant but selfless manner, affirming his own values but at the same time accepting and respecting other's values, needs and reality.
Sexual relationships, parental roles will be transmuted in an evolved manner.
The objective awareness that this NN promotes will help this person to understand how she/he (and others) can positively contribute to a group and how individual's creative and special talents can best be used to serve humanitarian needs.
She/he will then merge with other and other's power and link her/his special destiny and creative purpose to a socially relevant need. Once this link is established, leadership abilities and strength of will would manifest, but with awareness of not being the source of power. Also, her/his merging with a transpersonal power  would manifest through her/him as a vehicle or instrument of the real Source.
God Bless
Mirta