Old EA Message Board

Thanks Rad.

Peace,
Ellen

Hi,

Let me know if all those who are participating in our beginner's practice charts are ready to move on to another one. The first response by those participating has been wonderful. So let me know.

God Bless, Rad


p.s I am reposting this message to make sure all who want to participate see it. So far Linda, Mirta, Ellen want to continue.

I am interested.

I am ready to do the next one too.

Thanks
Dhyana

Hi Practice Group,

So it seems like it the right time to work with another paradigm. At this point I do not want to specify a specific evolutionary state. In our last paradigm I had not either yet it did lead to appropriate discussions about the difference between the individuated and the consensus states. And that was a great discussion to have.

So as we work with this next paradigm I am sure that issue will come up again, but it will come up spontaneously as a result of what is posted by all of you. And, for now, I would like to leave it that way. As we progress down the road our next step will be to add the planetary rulers of each of the Nodes.

So, for now, lets work with the following paradigm: Pluto is in 9th House, the S.Node will be in the 7th, the polarity point for Pluto of course being in the 3rd, and the N.Node in the 1st House.

So let's have a go of it.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

This is what I've come up with so far...


Pluto in the 9th

The Soul with Pluto in the 9th will come into this life with an intuitive sense of the deeper cosmological reality underpinning phenomenological reality.  In prior lives this Soul may have absorbed very deeply the customs of one particular culture or travelled far and wide, exposing herself to many beliefs and customs.  In either case, in this lifetime, the Soul will experience a sense of alienation to a greater or lesser extent depending on how closely the culture she is born into mirrors her own sense of this larger reality that she has built up, through experience and study, in prior lifetimes.  This sense of alienation will lead this Soul to continue her search for the truth.  Depending on her evolutionary stage of development, this search will take her towards the study of religious doctrine (consensus), free-thinking (individuated), or spiritual truths (spiritual).


SN in Libra

With the SN in Libra, this Soul, in prior lifetimes, has engaged with others in one-to-one encounters in her quest for the truth.  Whether she consciously sought out these encounters for the purposes of comparing and contrasting, or whether these encounters "happened" to her, forcing her to expand her perspective, in either case the purpose of these encounters was to do just that - expand her perspective.  With SN in Libra, it has been through the encounter with "the other" (whether a person or a belief system), that she has experienced repeated challenges to her existing world view, and thus repeated cycles of insecurity leading to the need to synthesize what she has encountered into a new, harmonious, expanded framework for understanding and explaining reality.  Depending on her evolutionary stage of development, this expanded framework will be religious, intellectual or spiritual.  At the consensus level of development, there will be a desire to convert others to this new found understanding.

PPP in the 3rd House

While this Soul has a well-developed intuitive sense of the universe, in this lifetime she is needing to learn how to communicate this sense to others in a way that they can understand.  Inevitably she will meet resistance to her understanding until she learns to communicate it in a way that others can understand.  This resistance may come from her immediate environment, including siblings and local community.  In order to successfully learn this lesson, she will need to take in all kinds of new information, collating this with already well-developed intuitive sense, thus creating for herself a means of articulating what she already knows in a way that others can appreciate and understand.  At the consensus level of development, she will most likely communicate in a way that is meant to convert others to her point of view.  At the individuated level, she will communicate in a way that is meant to free others to think for themselves.  At the spiritual level, her means of communication will be designed to help the other realize her true nature.

NN in the 1st House

The way that this Soul will go about searching for new information of all kinds will be by actively and instinctually following her intuitive sense of what information to pursue.  She will not know why she is pursuing a particular path or piece of information, driven as she is by the past (trine to Pluto); she will just know within herself that she must.  The information and paths she pursues will not be the tried and true; rather her quest will be the information at the cutting edge of thought (according to her evolutionary stage of development).  Going along in this way, she may eventually find herself the teacher of a new paradigm of thought.  At the level of consensus development, this new paradigm in thought will be religious in nature.  At the individuated level, it will be intellectual in nature.  At the spiritual level, it will be spiritual, or transcendant, in nature.

Pluto in the 9th house
SN in the 7th

The core evolutionary desires that proceeded this lifetime for the Pluto in the 9th was to understand it's own place within the world or universe in which they find themself. The way this may have been done is via osmosing (Pluto) various beliefs systems, cultural morals or laws, intellectual theories, and various philosophies in order to form and identify meaning and purpose in life. This is how they derive a sense of security.

Typically, a Pluto in the 9th house soul base their very security on what they believe  - Any philosophy, be it religious, cultural, intellectual, legal or spiritual or even atheistic - ANY belief system that can explain who they are, why they are, and where they find themselves, within the greater scheme of things, may be obsessively clung to with Pluto in the 9th.  Again, holding to these views will keep them feeling secure and give their life some kind of meaning.

This may also describe a soul that has been exposed to many cultures and settings world wide, and therefore has widened their exposure to life in general and the laws and systems of many different places, hence an inner pull to continue on opening up their world view. Thus, they may feel stifled in the land they are born into, since the soul already knows there is so much more out there. This can result in sort of  restlessness and an obsessive kind of seeking and searching for new horizons. They may travel literally, or via study of other cultures/beliefs/philosophies etc.

On the other hand, this can also play out in a different direction
-Let me try to clarify
-They may feel like the culture/ land they are born into is quite foreign to them, and they would like to feel the security of belonging --hence they may obsessively seek out ways to feel secure within the culture they find themselves  --Such as learning as much as they can about the laws, rules, morals, customs, and beliefs of the place they find themselves, and molding them self into that structure/system/religion/culture, thus, becoming even more narrow in their views  as a way of maintaining safety and security in the land/culture they find themself. Thus they may feel more secure staying put there and avoid altogether opening (in mind or literal travel) to different cultures/beliefs/philosophies etc. (Rad, is this paragraph accurate? Or would there have to be other factors for this to be accurate?)

Either way, the motivating force for all of this mentioned is
the same; Belief=Security.  The motivation is also quite unconscious (Pluto).  

The core intention of the soul with Pluto in the 9th is  to evolve and free up tightly held patterns in the area BELIEF.

At the freest, clearest or most high level for the Pluto in the 9th soul -what the soul is ultimately working towards, is understanding and living Natural Law!  This ultimately will be the release of all beliefs altogether. For Natural Law would be grokked so fully, that  belief  of any kind is no longer necessary. Natural Law is ultimately True security and it does not require belief.  Nature is Trustworthy. It is self evident and needs no philosophical system held in mind to be what it is. It simply demonstrates itself to life as itself naturally without belief of any kind.

Until the 9th house Pluto soul recognizes this on all levels of being, they will unconsciously be pulled towards, and proceed through various belief systems, religious systems, cultural systems, philosophies, legal systems and personal theories --Ranging from the most dense moving towards less dense as according to evolutionary condition. --Always  obsessively seeking a security that cannot actually ever be found, eventually leading to Natural Law fully embraced and lived.

Throughout the evolutionary journey, the Pluto in the 9th house soul will encounter power struggles and wounding or crisis/trauma in this area.  These power struggles are designed to shake the soul free from the shackles of belief according to their current evolutionary stage, in order for evolution to occur.

Some ways the traumas and power struggles can occur are;
They can experience a core alienation relative to their country and culture and origin.
They may have  intense belief system confrontations with others, or a society in which their beliefs are fundamentally at odds, or contradictory to the beliefs of most others. They can experience intense violations of truth, honesty, and the principle of justice, relative to the truth of any given situation.

When these cataclysmic life events occur it is meant to force them to examine the nature of their beliefs and underlying principles that generated those beliefs.

SN in the 7th House.

The mode of operation or the life roles that this Pluto in the 9th  dynamic will play out is via the South Node of the Moon in the 7th house. The roles this soul has taken on in the past were in the area of one to one relating and learning the lessons of balance in relating. When we see a 7th house SN we know that the person has a habit of realting  to other, at the expense of themselves. There is a sort of addiction to the other  that has become imbalanced. We also know that the House 1/House 7 axis is one of extremes. So we can conclude that the relationship with "other" has become extreme an over dependent. With the 9th house Pluto being the core motivation, and this SN in the 7th, we can offer a couple scenarios as far as the roles this individual has been habitually playing out;

--This person may find themselves habituated to heavy reliance on others to provide themselves with a philosophy to live by (Pluto 9/ SN7). This individual may take on the beliefs of their partners, or any one they idealize, as knowing more than they do when it comes to the themes of the 9th house  - ie. what to believe in".  They may have lost touch with their own inner intuition, seeing that intuition is natural to the 9th house, due to the habit of relying too heavily on the beliefs of others over time. This person may acquiesce too often to others beliefs and deny their own truth as well.

Another scenario could be that this individual could be habituated to shoving their beliefs that were acquired for security, down others people's throats, so to speak. THey can try to convert those significant others in their life to beleive as they do in order to keep the co-dependecy going, but in this way they are causing the other to be dependent on them (unconsciously of course). They can be very preachy towards others in general. In significant relationship they will have power struggles and intense conflicts and confrontations which get ignited whenever their beliefs are threatened by significant others.

The next step in the evolutionary involvement of this soul correlates to the Pluto Polarity Point in the 3rd house.  This would be more like slowing down the in the seeking mechanism, and opening up and enjoying the current environment in it's full variety.  Seeing that others have a variety of views and opinions and that this is okay - it is part of a discovery process (Gemini). They can begin to gather more facts and data regarding what they believe to be true and exercise logical thought, rather than continuing on with their over generalized theoretical stances.

The way this can be facilitated is through the North Node in the first house. What this means is that this soul need to get in touch with the their Aries nature (1st house), which is pre-thought therefore, in this case, with a 9th house Pluto, pre-beleif! What does this individual know for themselves and them self alone? WHat do their INSTINCTS tell them about what is true? Where are they individually and instinctively driven to discover more about what is true? They can follow their OWN lead! Basically this individual will need to begin the journey of self reliance and self discovery of their own truths. In turn, this will ignite their sense of selfhood --  get them in touch with what they believe, what they feel is true, which will not based on the opinions of others. -- And the go persue it!  With practice, they will come to feel more secure within themself --no longer relying or addicted to the counsel of other.  And hence, as they become more secure with themselves --get to know their own truth, they will be able to open to that 3rd house PPP--

-- really just being in the environment they find themselves, without feeling threatened by the diversity and variety. This way they can begin to communicate (3rd house) with others in a way that is more relaxed, more relevant to the surroundings and hence offer themselves, according to what other factors we find in the chart, to their current eviornment within it's own context.

They will find they can use the tool of their logical mind more freely in the spirit of discovery, without feeling the threat to their aquired beliefs. They may find themself communicating their truth, within the context of their evolutionary stage, without the compulsion to preach. This will make whatever communication they offer, much more accepted by those in their current surroundings.
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As an aside- I want to thank you for this particular signature--
I was able to unravel even more subtle layers for my self (even though the Pluto and SN are in reversed houses). Truly, such a Gift, I am greatful.

From The Heart,
Dhyana

Aspects

Pluto Sextile SN

The feelings of alienation that this Soul has felt in past lives has created the opportunity for encounters with others that have been meant to facilitate the exploration of these feelings and thus have in turn opened up the opportunity for a more expansive search for meaning.  The extent to which this Soul actively took advantage of these opportunities will have determined the quality of the relationships she became involved in and consequently how far she was able to "travel" in search of meaning.

PPP Trine SN

The information gathering that this Soul is prompted to do in this lifetime allows her to communicate what she intuitively knows, thus having a beneficial effect on her one-on-one relationships with others.  Such an effect would in turn seem to have the effect of diminishing this Soul's deep feelings of alienation.

PPP Sextile NN

The opportunity here is for the information gathering propensities of the PPP and the instinctual search for self (for, Who am I) to work in a harmonious way such that the NN will instinctually seek out new information - information at the cutting edge of its awareness - and this instinctual search will provide the necessary information needed by the PPP to create the framework needed to evolve the Soul.

Pluto Trine NN

The intrinsic feelings of alienation experienced by the 9th House Pluto Soul will facilitate the instinctual search for meaning in the form of "Who am I?" that is represented by the 1st House NN.  Thus the experiences of the past will trigger the evolutionary intent of this Soul in a harmonious way.

Hi Rad,

I just wanted to clarify something about the aspects with regard to waxing/waning.  I'll list what I think.  Could you let me know if I've got it right?  (It is my understanding that even though the nodes travel retrograde, when determining aspects, you do so as if they were traveling direct.  Is this correct?  And if so, why?, ie, why not determine based on the actual retrograde motion??)

Pluto/SN = waning sextile

Pluto/NN = waxing trine

PPP/SN = waxing trine (can you do this - determine aspects from the PPP?)

PPP/NN = waning sextile

Thank you,
Ellen

Addition:  after reading Ari's post on the sesquiquadrate thread in which he identifies a 2nd House Pluto in gibbous phase sesquiquadrate to 9th House NN, it is clear I've gotten the above mixed up.  So:

Pluto/SN = WAXING sextile

Pluto/NN = WANING trine

PPP/SN = WANING trine

PPP/NN = WAXING sextile

Correct?

Ellen

Hi Rad
Here is my effort. I am trying to better adapt to EA format (and reasoning, of course).
I appreciate your additional work of understanding.
This practice is very stimulating for me. Thanks.

Pluto in 9th,SN in 7th, NN in 1st
General understanding
This Soul comes with a desire and evolutionary need of understanding life and herself in a philosophical, cosmological or religious way.
She has needed, and still needs, to understand and explain the link, the relationship with the universe and  with a level of reality that transcends the empirical.
Knowledge of that link is the key in this evolutionary intent.
In her search of consciousness expansion she has tried to attain this by initiating a new cycle (that is still going on) in which she could develop objectivity and learn equality, relativity and attention.
In this lifetime her evolutioanry purpose is to learn that her vision of reality, her beliefs and moral are relative.
She needs to know and accept other person's views and ways to discover truth and that
this is her way to attain the essential unity behind all different ways and approaches to truth.
The way to actualize this challenge is initiating new relationships in an independent way, perhaps being her own teacher, and letting other people discover and hold their own truth.
Her need and acceptance of new experiences will let her to listen and learn from that.
Her courage and daring will take her beyond the limits of what she feels as security.

Specific ways of manifestation o this paradigm will be indicated by evolutionary stage and other karmic and astrological factors.
I am going to imagine some scenarios.

Consensus evolutionary stage
Pluto in 9th House
This souls desire was - and is - to expand her consciousness by explaining her relationship to more powerful forces by  means of religion or some consensus philosophic system.
Her emotional security is related to holding that belief system.
However, she needs and desires freedom to live experiences and  to reflect about them in search of truth.
This soul feels having a special destiny or identity, based in her relationship with religious or philosophical principles that explain or justify her link with universe.
She is more concerned with the aprehension of reality as a whole than with physical environment.
In this search Soul  has perhaps traveled in prior lifetimes or has lived in different cultures. (I find this more possible in individuated stage).
In this lifetime she may be a natural loner. This paradigm involves some form of alienation from the person's culture or environment. In consensus stage it can manifest as some form of withdrawing from the immediate environmental relationships.

Evolutionary problemsrelated to the need of concentration and developing the intuitive faculty, and derived from the opposite desires in the soul:
a) The separative impulse leads to strong identificationswith the religious or philosophical system that reflects societal consensus.
This identification is related to her need of emotional security.
In an extreme (and frequent) manifestation of that she tries to "convert" others to her belief system. This conversion of people is supposed to reassure her.
As evolution proceed she will realize that it is a delusion.
b) Communication problems: Related to the difficulty to transmit what she "simply knows", her intuitions.
They also can be based on her own problem with accepting other's thinking, understanding or speaking.
SN in 7th House
This soul has been, and is, initiating many types of relationships, involving her with many different people.
In her search for knowledge, for ultimate truth, she has exposed herself to different emotional patterns and also to different intellectual systems (at least with people holding these intellectual systems).
In her intent to understand and attend other's reality as it exists for the other, she has put herself in the challenge of not sharing her belief system. This has been done at an experiential, subjective level, may be not at an intellectual level. (In individuated will she be able to confront intellectual systems).
She has done it looking for objectivity. Objectivity is a complex concept, and she still has a long path to attain it.
I believe she developed one aspect of 9th House archetype, that of knowing herself in a larger context.

In her compulsive need to establish relationships this soul has initiated different types of them and held different subjective positions.
One type probably was teacher = pupil relationships in that she could be in one or the other situation.
Other type: relationships that let her know a large spectrum o human possibilities.For example in a philosophical ego structure: living personal experiences as an anthropological exploration or research.

In the relationships she initiated looking for teachers, she could have been dependent or submissive to them.She could also hold her teacher's belief system or religion to be accepted. This could lead to a loss of individuality and to being dominated by teacher's philosophy or religion as being her own.
If she was the teacher, may be she was dominant or authoritative. With her ability to attend to others and her capacity to listen and understand she has actualized her attraction to people that needs of advice or intellectual reassurance. Indeed she was looking for her own emotional security.
The outcome was probably a manipulative control trying that pupil admits teacher's values and beliefs as his own.
Both possibilites can lead to a person who tries to "convert" others.
In the latter it may be a direct consequence.
In the former as a way to demonstrate how trustful she is. Or in a compensative or shadowy way,I mean she is dominated by her teacher and acts as adominator with weaker people.
PPP in 3rd House
This soul needs learn relativity in her vision of reality and truth. She is learning that there are many ways to approach truth and that every person has her own.
This lesson is learned by means of  intellectual, philosophical or religious arguments and confrontations.
This exposure to diversity challenges her sense of emotional security. On one hand it furthers evolution by learning acceptance and open-mindedness. On the other hand resistances to other's points of view may arise.
By overcoming resistances she becomes less defensive and develops an open attitude towards understanding truth through other individuals and cultures.
Resistance can manifest in aggresive ways to expose the weakness or inaccuracy of other's reasoning or in enigmatic ways of expression.
But this soul will atract challenging people, with powerful reasons or strong beliefs that will expose her own limitations.
She may also attract people not able to understand what she thinks or says. This people may be pupils, siblings, or other relatives and it may also be very upsetting. The purpose behind this is learning to communicate in an understandable way, to see her own communication limitations and obstacles.
More she resists, more needs she this challenging relationships.
NN in 1st House
The new egocentric structures she is building have the potentiality of innovation and courage.
She may still be authoritative, but the need for new experiences and feedom will eventually lead to acknowledge and accept other's reasons and beliefs.
If evolutionary lessons are learned, these structures will let the PPP attainment by accepting other's freedom to think and express their way, and even to encourage them to do that.
Independence minimizes the need that other people confirm or accept his convictions.

Cusp to Individuated stage
The soul that in consensus stage adopted some form of religion may do a (or some) transitory lifetime as agnostic before accepting a spiritual vision of Reality in her return to Natural Law.

Individuated Stage(some ideas)
Consciousness expansion and search for truth is now philosophical or cosmological: Heterodox philosophical systems, even Perennial Philosophy; astrology, transpersonal psychology, even spiritual teachings.
The possible alienation is now cultural alienation. In former lives this Soul traveled much or lived in different cultures, and now identification with the society of birth becomes difficult. She may also abandon it if she feels repressed or suffocated.
NN boldness actualizes that.
Alienation is a necessary experience for that soul to eliminate barriers to understanding universal principles, Natural Law.
Alienation from consensus cultural knowledge furthers intuition (in-tuition).
NN gives the courage to accept what Soul already knows form within, without conscious reasoning, without the need to justify before people.
Communication problems derived from difficulty to express in linear thinking (left brain) her intuition (right brain) may be more frequent in this stage. However, independence and deepening of intuition develops tha ability to communicate what she intuits.
In consensus stage the problem was more based in rigidity or in agressively exposing other's weaknesses.
Intellectual or verbal agressiveness is still a problem, specially in 2nd. individuated.
But in this stage, SN experiences have developed more objectivity in relationships and in self-knowledge. And the soul is now in better conditions to accept challenges to her beliefs.
So,  learning the PPP evolutionary lessons she will be able to transmit her interior wisdom gained in former lives understandings.
Thanks again, Rad
God Bless
Mirta

Hi Ellen,

First, yes, you corrected yourself about the waxing and waning aspects: the nodes mean motion being retrograde.

Second, your EA analysis so far, your reasoning, is sound. One of the dimensions within this paradigm that needs to be developed more occurs when the Soul has become totally dependent on external teacher types: S.Node in the 7th relative to the 9th House Pluto. When this is the case then such a Soul will simply be a collection of various teachers teachings over many lifetimes, even in the consensus: some limited religious/cosmological belief system. Thus the 3rd House polarity point of Pluto, relative to the N.Node in the 1st would manifest as others now confronting the Soul in the current life wherein the nature of the confrontations is to expose the weak links in the Souls religious/ cosmological understanding of life. The intent of the Soul is designing those circumstances is to force the Soul to begin to ask and answer it's own questions: to become it's own teacher. In so doing this then expands the consciousness of the Soul, and, in turn, allows for an entirely different way of communicating with others: that there are a variety of ways leading to a final understanding of Truth: the natural laws that are the structure of the manifested Creation. Within this it enforces the intent for the Soul to learn how to trust it's own intuition leading to it's own inwardly realized knowledge versus that which has been externally gained and simply 'believed' in.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Dhyana,

"Thus they may feel more secure staying put there and avoid altogether opening (in mind or literal travel) to different cultures/beliefs/philosophies etc. (Rad, is this paragraph accurate? Or would there have to be other factors for this to be accurate?)"

***********************************************

Yes, very accurate because in this possibility within the total spectrum of the archetypes of the paradigm is to feel so threatened, Pluto, by any other existing belief/cosmological understanding of the manifested Creation that the Soul simply shuts out those competing understandings or views.

************************************************

Your EA analysis is very sound Dhyana and all that you said is entirely possible within the totality of the archetypes of this paradigm.


God Bless, Rad

Hi Mirta,

Very good effort, and your EA reasoning relative to the paradigm that we are working with is solid. All that you have stated so far is entirely possible. Good job.

God Bless, Rad

Quote from: Rad on Nov 29, 2010, 08:21 AM
Hi Ellen,

First, yes, you corrected yourself about the waxing and waning aspects: the nodes mean motion being retrograde.

Second, your EA analysis so far, your reasoning, is sound. One of the dimensions within this paradigm that needs to be developed more occurs when the Soul has become totally dependent on external teacher types: S.Node in the 7th relative to the 9th House Pluto. When this is the case then such a Soul will simply be a collection of various teachers teachings over many lifetimes, even in the consensus: some limited religious/cosmological belief system. Thus the 3rd House polarity point of Pluto, relative to the N.Node in the 1st would manifest as others now confronting the Soul in the current life wherein the nature of the confrontations is to expose the weak links in the Souls religious/ cosmological understanding of life. The intent of the Soul is designing those circumstances is to force the Soul to begin to ask and answer it's own questions: to become it's own teacher. In so doing this then expands the consciousness of the Soul, and, in turn, allows for an entirely different way of communicating with others: that there are a variety of ways leading to a final understanding of Truth: the natural laws that are the structure of the manifested Creation. Within this it enforces the intent for the Soul to learn how to trust it's own intuition leading to it's own inwardly realized knowledge versus that which has been externally gained and simply 'believed' in.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Thanks.  I had a really hard time with this one.  I will work on it more, taking in consideration your feedback.

Peace,
Ellen

PS The DEPENDENCY in this case can happen with regard to prior lives and thus the conditioning in this life, because aries is NOT a part of that prior life conditioning.  Yes?  (Whereas in the prior practice chart, Aries was a part of that past life structure, thus dependency was not a possibility for that Soul...?)

Hi Ellen,

Yes .......................

God Bless, Rad