Old EA Message Board

Hi Rad,

Before everyone gets going with the first assignment, I have a question that's been brewing for a while.

Every planet/asteroid except the Sun has a south and north node, showing the journey the energy of the planet is undertaking from the past to it's future, via the current house/sign location of the planet. The example we're most familiar with is the Moon with it's south and north node. But Pluto (the soul itself) also has a south and north node and it too is on this same journey from it's past to it's future. And you have explained this is true for all planets.

However for Pluto energy to evolve within one lifetime it must move towards it's polarity point, the opposite side of the zodiac. And JWG also says this is true for Venus and Mars. So this raises a few questions for me ...

1. Does every planet have a "polarity point"? I know the point exists for every planet in a chart, simply by definition of the zodiac being comprised of polar signs (Aries/Libra etc).

But is it true for every planet that for evolution to proceed the energy and functioning of the planet must move to the polarity point?

2. And is it also true for the lights - the Sun and Moon?

For example: in the chart's core dynamics, moving from the Moon's south node to it's north node assists Pluto to move to it's own polarity point. However, should the Moon also be moving towards it's own polarity point too?

and then finally ...

3. How is the movement from south to north nodes related to movement to polarity points?

For example we have the SN/Moon/NN and Pluto situation (which is also a crossover between one planet's nodes and another planet's polarity point).

Is the relationship between nodal movement and polarity point movement confined to this specific situation? ....or is there a generic relationship between nodal movement and polarity point movement?

Thanks and blessings,
Upasika

Hi Upasika,

Very astute questions. The answer is YES to every planet, or asteroid,  having it's own polarity point that reflects an evolution of the sign that the planet is in at birth. The South Node of a planet, or asteroid, set's up the natal position in the current life: it leads to it. And that natal planet then has it's polarity point as a core evolutionary dynamic within it that, in turn, is progressively actualized in the context of a lifetime through the N.Node of the planet itself. Thus, the polarity point in combination with the N.Node both serve to evolve the existing dynamics of the South Node, and the ongoing integration point defined by the natal planet itself. This all applies to the Moon as well. JWG did do a lecture on this at times, and there is a dvd available for sale to on the main site called From Karma to Dharma that reflects this.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

That's interesting and makes a lot of sense, and when I can I'll certainly be buying the DVD (absolutely skint at the moment).

1. However I take it, since the Sun has no nodes ... in the natal chart it's the integration point, not of it's own past and future as such like all the other planets (which have nodes), but more the integration point of the chart as a whole? - an integration point of all the other integrations points (other planets) if you like.

2. And whether that is the case or not, does the Sun itself have a polarity point? Since it has no past or future defined by movement from a South to a North node, is it a point in the chart that operates as a point relevant only to the present (our conscious presence), from where, or through which, everything else (with it's past, present and future) is integrated? And thus in itself is not a point needing to evolve in the same way the other planets do via movement from their south to north nodes?

Or does it also have within itself, as an evolutionary dynamic, the need to evolve to it's polarity point? And if so from where to what, since it has no nodes to represent the "from where" and the "to what"? For example, does it just evolve within one lifetime to it's polarity point, but not evolve as a sequential thread over many lifetimes like all the remaining planets do (shown within the chart by movement from their south to north nodes).

and lastly ...

3. Because of what Pluto and the Moon represent in the chart ... Pluto being the Soul itself, and therefore the bottom line of the chart in this lifetime, and the Moon being the egocentric structure created by Pluto to focus the Soul as a personality within a person's physical / emotional / mental / psychological actuality in their current life ... the Moon and Pluto have an inherent, predefined relationship.

Thus the nodes of the Moon, representing facilitators of the evolution of the Moon over lifetimes (from its south node to it's north node), and helping the Moon to evolve in the current life by moving to it's polarity point, also represent factors in the past that helped facilitate Pluto's arrival at its current location in the chart (Moon SN) and factors that in this current life will help facilitate Pluto's evolution to it's own polarity point (Moon NN). This is in addition to Pluto's own nodes representing Pluto's past and future.

So there is a "special" relationship here between these two planets which is reflected in the way the Moon's nodes not only give information about the Moon's evolution over many lifetimes (SN to NN) and it's evolution within the current lifetime (to it's polarity point), but also to both of these evolutionary dynamics for/within Pluto too.

The evolutionary dynamics of both the Moon and Pluto are always inevitably linked, for these obvious reasons.

Is this the only case of this amongst the planets? For instance, take Mars, representing the changing conscious desires we have, which come from the pool of unconscious desires for the lifetime held in the Soul, represented by Pluto. Here is another inherent predefined relationship between two planets where they share different aspects of the same core evolutionary component (desires). Do the south and north nodes of Mars also help in any way to facilitate Pluto moving to it's polarity point? And if so, are there still other situations where this nodal/polarity point crossover also happens between two planets?

Thank again Rad,
blessings Upasika

Upasika, thanks for asking these questions.

Rad, thanks for your reply.  My solar fire-less mac and your response led me to revisit true-node website and explore the nodes of venus in greater length.  
Apparently, (news to me)for about the last two thousand years the nodes of venus dance back and forth such that they conjunct in gemini(also when the sun is in gemini)  - at which point the south node moves ahead of the north node.
The south node stays ahead until the polarity time of year - for the last couple thousand years this was in sagittarius time when the nodes of venus rejoin in sag and the north node again pulls ahead.

Going into the "B.C." era, this is seen to be shifting backwards(as we go back in time) such that in this past era the nodes of venus were conjunct in taurus and scorpio.  Again, the sn of venus pulling ahead at the taurus conjunction and the nn of venus pulling back ahead at the scorpio conjunction.
In this era, the aries point(sun at 0 degrees aries) still sees a relative quintile between the nodes, however the nn of venus was in late aries on March 20th then.(Now it is early taurus)

Basically, this is awakening me to the evolutionary tie in of venus to the gemini sag axis for the recent two thousand years.  Could we say that humanities current curiosity and attraction to discover is a past relationship to ourselves which is leading our relationship to all of life?  And our evolving beliefs, faith, and intuition of our relationship with a larger perspective on life is metamorphosizing our collective past cosmological perspectives?  Based on the current signs of nodal conjunctions of venus.

My apologies for backtracking on the assignment here.  Working on the assignment now.  

Upasika's question and your response did lead to another question for me.
Rad,
I have truly reprogrammed myself to first apply the pluto paradigm always - this I have fully embraced.
Now, up to this point, I have never had it in my head, when seeing a chart to immediately wrap into the taking in of it all the planetary polarity points also.  
Is this something that you always do keep in mind?  
Is it a matter of evolving the consciousness of the meaning of any point to always include the polarity relative to these teachings?
What comes up for me it to always come back to the bottom line of pluto, the soul, and not distort or loose perspective on the bottom line desires and whys for a soul.

thank you

Goddess Bless,
Bradley

Hi Upasika,

Quote from: Upasika on Oct 29, 2010, 08:09 PM
Hi Rad,

That's interesting and makes a lot of sense, and when I can I'll certainly be buying the DVD (absolutely skint at the moment).

1. However I take it, since the Sun has no nodes ... in the natal chart it's the integration point, not of it's own past and future as such like all the other planets (which have nodes), but more the integration point of the chart as a whole? - an integration point of all the other integrations points (other planets) if you like.

********************************************************************

Yes

*********************************************************************

2. And whether that is the case or not, does the Sun itself have a polarity point? Since it has no past or future defined by movement from a South to a North node, is it a point in the chart that operates as a point relevant only to the present (our conscious presence), from where, or through which, everything else (with it's past, present and future) is integrated? And thus in itself is not a point needing to evolve in the same way the other planets do via movement from their south to north nodes?

**********************************************************************

It has no polarity point. All is integrated relative to it's sign and house in the birth chart. It does not evolve in the same way as all the other factors in the birth chart.

***********************************************************************

Or does it also have within itself, as an evolutionary dynamic, the need to evolve to it's polarity point? And if so from where to what, since it has no nodes to represent the "from where" and the "to what"? For example, does it just evolve within one lifetime to it's polarity point, but not evolve as a sequential thread over many lifetimes like all the remaining planets do (shown within the chart by movement from their south to north nodes).

and lastly ...

************************************************************************

The Sun can evolve from within the total archetypal spectrum of the Sign and House that it is natally as the Soul itself evolves relative to it intentions in any given life.

***********************************************************************

3. Because of what Pluto and the Moon represent in the chart ... Pluto being the Soul itself, and therefore the bottom line of the chart in this lifetime, and the Moon being the egocentric structure created by Pluto to focus the Soul as a personality within a person's physical / emotional / mental / psychological actuality in their current life ... the Moon and Pluto have an inherent, predefined relationship.

Thus the nodes of the Moon, representing facilitators of the evolution of the Moon over lifetimes (from its south node to it's north node), and helping the Moon to evolve in the current life by moving to it's polarity point, also represent factors in the past that helped facilitate Pluto's arrival at its current location in the chart (Moon SN) and factors that in this current life will help facilitate Pluto's evolution to it's own polarity point (Moon NN). This is in addition to Pluto's own nodes representing Pluto's past and future.

*************************************************************************

Everything is set in motion by the Soul and the desires within it. Thus, the polarity point of Pluto only manifests by way of the desire within the Soul to do so. If that is done then the N.Node of the Moon is simultaneously set in motion because of the desires emanating from the Soul.

*************************************************************************

So there is a "special" relationship here between these two planets which is reflected in the way the Moon's nodes not only give information about the Moon's evolution over many lifetimes (SN to NN) and it's evolution within the current lifetime (to it's polarity point), but also to both of these evolutionary dynamics for/within Pluto too.

***********************************************************************

Again, all evolution or motion within the birth chart, including the Nodes of the Moon, is set in motion, evolving, only because of the desires that emanate from the Soul: Pluto. In other words, the Moon, in and of itself, does not cause anything to happen: does not cause evolution to occur. All comes from the root of Pluto, the Soul.

*************************************************************************

The evolutionary dynamics of both the Moon and Pluto are always inevitably linked, for these obvious reasons.

Is this the only case of this amongst the planets? For instance, take Mars, representing the changing conscious desires we have, which come from the pool of unconscious desires for the lifetime held in the Soul, represented by Pluto. Here is another inherent predefined relationship between two planets where they share different aspects of the same core evolutionary component (desires). Do the south and north nodes of Mars also help in any way to facilitate Pluto moving to it's polarity point? And if so, are there still other situations where this nodal/polarity point crossover also happens between two planets?

**************************************************************************

All combinations of planets and their Nodes are created BY THE SOUL relative to it's ongoing evolution over great lengths of time. Thus, all facilitate the Souls evolution. But, again, it all starts from within the Soul itself. Without active desires, choices, to set all of these symbols in motions, to evolve, nothing will happen. It's like marking time. Once the Soul does make the choices by manifesting desires to do so then all of the symbols in the birth chart, the Nodal Axis of all planets, then facilitate that ongoing evolution of the Soul.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Bradley,

Quote from: Bradley J on Oct 29, 2010, 09:52 PM

"Basically, this is awakening me to the evolutionary tie in of venus to the gemini sag axis for the recent two thousand years.  Could we say that humanities current curiosity and attraction to discover is a past relationship to ourselves which is leading our relationship to all of life?  And our evolving beliefs, faith, and intuition of our relationship with a larger perspective on life is metamorphosizing our collective past cosmological perspectives?  Based on the current signs of nodal conjunctions of venus."

*******************************************************************

Yes, and this would include in this era the nature of cosmological discoveries by way of various types of telescopes that peer ever deeper into the universes

********************************************************************

My apologies for backtracking on the assignment here.  Working on the assignment now. 

Upasika's question and your response did lead to another question for me.
Rad,
I have truly reprogrammed myself to first apply the pluto paradigm always - this I have fully embraced.
Now, up to this point, I have never had it in my head, when seeing a chart to immediately wrap into the taking in of it all the planetary polarity points also. 
Is this something that you always do keep in mind? 

**********************************************************************

Yes.

*********************************************************************

Is it a matter of evolving the consciousness of the meaning of any point to always include the polarity relative to these teachings?

************************************************************************

Yes.

**********************************************************************

What comes up for me it to always come back to the bottom line of pluto, the soul, and not distort or loose perspective on the bottom line desires and whys for a soul.

***********************************************************************

That is the key to the whole deal.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Thank you very much Rad, this is all deeply clarifying.

While I'd never thought that planets caused Pluto itself to evolve, more assisted it to do what it wanted to do, it's very good to get from your response to my questions, and also Bradley's, the reconfirming that Pluto is the only mobilizer in the chart. Firmly puts the cart (back) behind the horse.

So how I now understand it is that the Soul (Pluto), having created the Sun, and other planets and their nodes, has also created them in a way that they will all facilitate the evolution of the Soul itself, and as part of that process, the evolution of themselves too.

And looking at the nodes of those other planets (all except the Sun), we can see how the Soul has gone about facilitating itself in this way in the past, and also it's intentions for doing so in the future. A natural tension arises between the past that's been and the future that is ahead of us, and this is felt and able to be integrated at the current placement of these planets. This tension is integrated by embracing the polar opposite realm of experience and understanding (polarity point) of each planet as consciously as possible. Conscious striving in this way towards our potential is what causes each area and aspect of ourselves (shown by the the planets themselves in their current placements) to grow and evolve.  

And that the relationship between the Soul (Pluto) and our subconscious identity (Moon - it's egocentric structure) that is created each lifetime, reflects the core mechanism that we unconsciously create from within our Soul to enable a sense of self in our daily life, albeit usually a subconscious one. And we look at the Moon's nodes to get information over time about this identity/facilitation process the Soul keeps creating for itself.

This subconscious sense of identity is itself not a static position. It too is in a state of tension caused by the pull of the past and continuity (strengthening this sense of self) and the need to keep moving out of our comfort zone into a new unknown sense of self (Moon polarity point). It needs to do this to accomodate the inevitable changes that are brought about in our life as a result of the deep (and relatively unconscious) urge within us to evolve (Pluto) propelling us towards our deepest growth possible in this lifetime (Pluto's polarity point).

And that the relationship between Pluto, and Mars and it's nodes, reflects where the Soul is at within itself in regard to it's creating desires to act on. The activation of these desires is what sets in motion all the other energies (all the remaining planets/asteroids with nodes) in the chart, with their inbuilt role to play in facilitating the ongoing evolution of the Soul. We look at the nodes of Mars and these other planets/asteroids, to get information about how these conscious desires and the particular roles of the other planets in the Soul's evolution, roles that has been created by the Soul in the first place, are all manifesting over time.

This whole process ... starting in the relatively unconscious Soul (Pluto) manifesting as a subconscious awareness of identity and self which imparts a sense of continuity (Moon) ... is initiated by the choice to evolve at the Soul level. This (relatively unconscious) choice to evolve, then manifests as multiple conscious desires that we are aware of in our lives. And these evolutionary intentions/desires that originated from our unconscious (Soul) are registered at a subconscious (Moon) and conscious (Sun) level via urges to act (Mars - lower octave of Pluto), and this mobilises all the other energies in our life (planets in the chart other than Pluto/Moon/Sun) ...

...  this whole process is integrated by our (relatively) much more conscious sense of being (the Sun) - in the realm of life shown by the Sun's house, with the dispostion and needs of the sign the Sun is in. The conscious expression and integration of ourself (Sun) evolves within this realm (house) with more developed understanding (sign) as these desires emanating from our unconscious (Pluto) are acted upon and experienced over time (shown by all the nodes).

The resistance generated by the past (shown by the south nodes) - to fulfilling the intentions arising from within our Soul (Pluto) and thus manifesting our future possibilities (north nodes) - is broken down and dissolved when we choose out of free will to grow into the unknown (our polarity points). And in doing so, our future (shown by the north nodes) then becomes actualised, and this consciousness through which we integrate everything that we are aware of (the Sun), then expands. In this way the Soul affects it's evolution.

I hope this is correct.

Blessings,
Upasika

Rad,
Thanks for the response,
Just have to say "Wow" reflecting on the taurus scorpio era correlating with 'birth rights', marriage, possession of/over humans as property, inheritance, - control of possessions, wealth related to marriage, and any passage of birth and death.  All the distorted institutions of the patriarchal era seem to have really rooted into human cultures with this era.  Does this ring true to you?

the true-node site only goes back so far, but from what i can tell, it seems like almost 3000 years for the nodal conjunctions of venus to stay in a sign - it this correct?
If so, the aries/libra conjunctions would have been more around 3000-6000 b.c. - and squaring the cancer/cap nodal ingresses around the onset of the fall from living in harmony with nature. 
Is this accurate?

Many thanks
Goddess Bless,
Bradley

Hi Upasika,

You have fully grasped how the EA paradigm works except this ............

"And these desires that originated from our unconscious (Soul) are registered as urges to act (Mars) which mobilises all the other energies in our life (planets in the chart other than Pluto/Moon/Sun) ..."

Both the Moon and the Sun registers the urges, evolutionary intentions, from the Soul, Pluto, via Mars it's lower octave ...

God Bless, Rad

Hi Wendy,

Wanted to acknowledge your first effort because the value is in the effort. One thing I would suggest to deepen your understanding, relative to the paradigm we are working with, is to read the section in JWG's Pluto Two book about Venus through the signs.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Gonzalo,

Excellent understanding of the interaction of the Nodes of Venus relative to it's natal position.

God Bless,

Rad

Hi Bradley,

Quote from: Bradley J on Oct 30, 2010, 11:41 PM
Rad,
Thanks for the response,
Just have to say "Wow" reflecting on the taurus scorpio era correlating with 'birth rights', marriage, possession of/over humans as property, inheritance, - control of possessions, wealth related to marriage, and any passage of birth and death.  All the distorted institutions of the patriarchal era seem to have really rooted into human cultures with this era.  Does this ring true to you?

**************************************************

Yes

*****************************************************

the true-node site only goes back so far, but from what i can tell, it seems like almost 3000 years for the nodal conjunctions of venus to stay in a sign - it this correct?

**************************************************************

The nodal conjunctions of Venus to stay in one sign for 3000 years ? No....

***************************************************************

If so, the aries/libra conjunctions would have been more around 3000-6000 b.c. - and squaring the cancer/cap nodal ingresses around the onset of the fall from living in harmony with nature. 
Is this accurate?

******************************************************************

Are you talking about Mars here ?

*********************************************************************

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,
Well, I ran nodal conjunction(for venus) in -1000(1000 b.c.) which is at 21 taurus(when sn pulls ahead)
Then, in 1000 a.d. this same phenomena is at 8 gemini.
Based on this, I'm approximating 117.64 years for a degree of movement.
This times 30 degrees, and we arrive at an approximate passage of venus's nodal conjunctions through a sign in about 3530 years or so.

From what i can tell, the first time venus nodal conjuctions started in gemini was around 200 a.d.
If this is a relatively constant motion(which I'm doubting) and we go back 3530 years, that means the scorpio taurus conjunctions of venus were roughly between 3330 b.c. to 200 a.d.

This places, following this timeframe, the aries libra conjunctions of venus' nodes from 6860 b.c. to 3530 a.d.

Relative to the mars nodal cycle, you wrote:

"Any given sign with its polarity that becomes active within the Mars cycle remains active for 12,000 years at a time, where it then becomes phased out by another in the zodiac sequence."

and also:
"This pattern continues, the trinity of South Node in Libra, Scorpio, Sag and North Node Aries, Taurus, Gemini, until about 4,300 AD.  Then Mars South Node Libra, North Node Aries phases out and shifts to South Node Capricorn and North Node Cancer."
and also:
"Regarding your question about the Roman empire, the nodes of Mars actually shifted into Aries/Libra somewhere around 5,500 BC."

so, from 7,700 b.c. to 4,300 AD is 12,000 years...so, how is it that the nodes of mars actually shifted into aries/libra around 5,500 bc?

Based on my limited understanding of this, it would appear both the nodes of mars and venus were active in aries/libra at the time of the cultural transition into the patriarchal era. Is this right?


Thank you kindly for answering these questions.
with love,

Goddess Bless,
Bradley  

Hi Bradley,

I don't think I am understanding how you are trying to put together this cycle of Venus and it's nodes. Plus, the Venus cycle is very different than the Mars cycle. The S. and N Nodes of Venus actually conjunct every year. This year it will be on Dec 8th in Sagittarius.

From approximately 8,000 B.C. to 4,500 B.C the Nodes of Mars were at the bottom of the trinity of the three signs then. From 4,500 B.C to 500 B.C. there were in the middle of trinity then, and then from 500 B.C. until 4,300 A.D. there are at the top.

Bradley, I just don't have time to keep going through all the math to arrive at these things. I am very busy. Would I would like to do is to focus on the planetary nodes themselves in terms of peoples actual lives.

God Bless, Rad

Rad,
Great! thanks for being clear.
I will stop asking these questions.  Thanks for more clarification.

I hope in the future it would be okay in another thread to post as clearly as possible what I've stated to say here.  Just posting info., not asking more questions on this.

Goddess Bless,
Bradley