Old EA Message Board

Chloe projects a sense of inner security (Scorpio) onto her brother, and is unable to find the necessary resolve to experiences had together in the past (balsamic Moon-Pluto, ruled by Saturn).  Relying on her brother, Chloe has a sub-conscious memory of the safety he provided throughout various traumas (Saturn opposition Uranus balsamic Juno).  Her entire reality had been continuously reframed, and their relationship was the only structure that she could rely on (new phase Neptune-Jupiter-Moon approaching Chiron).

Chloe feels the strength of wholeness in their companionship (Lilith-North Node conjunct Juno-Chiron in the 6th ).  However, Shaw's individuation process (Mercury waxing trine Pluto) fuels a confrontation (skipped step to Chloe's nodal axis), and demands a reappraisal of what had occurred in the past.  In an attempt to experience variety in relationship and the objectivity of natural law,  Shaw had discredited the emotional turbulence shared with his sister (PPP in 11th new phase Venus, ruled by Mercury). 

Shaw seeks to expand, forcefully letting go of experiences had with his sister in search of greater liberation (new phase Moon-Pluto in Sagittarius).  Detaching from not only the trauma, but also the relationship itself, he is after a self-sufficiency distanced from the struggles of the past (Jupiter opposition Uranus-Vesta).

Shaw isn't necessarily in the wrong in his approach to the present, yet there is a clear disconnect in how he relates to his sister.  With a clearer sense of communication (Mercury-Mercury), she could share the same direction as her brother - accepting the trauma had in the past as an objective reality (PPP in 11th balsamic Mars, South Node as resolution point).

Edward

Hi Rad,

First up all Rad thank you for your patience and encouragement to help newbie,like me,learn Ea to its best.
When i put an effort to participate in this thread it was as a result of some trigger that evoke out of some synchronicity that was happening in my life.I have been reading Jeffery Wolf  Greens book for few years and was slowing absorption it by looking on to the chart of  friends, close relatives and myself .Few months ago i had two new friends  ( both have many planets in skipped step condition) and in their life they where doing so much to handle their life ,only to see that everything was going against them.And they  in that state of life felt me as a person to come and talk freely.And i have their chart with me and they talk so openly with me that everything in the chart became so much alive.But their inner suffering was huge and they come to me again and again as they find talking  to me as a relief ( minimum a temporary relief).And that time the push i felt within was that if i understand Ea deeper then how much help it can be to them - felt like a guilt that i am not learning Ea fully.And that point of time ,here in the forum skipped step thread got started ,which triggered me to put an effort to participate.And to be honest when i participated i  understood that the forum is  already full of knowledge ( practice charts ..) that i need to learn from - which i am doing now , reading and learning from practice charts.So i feel this as a better choice  than to participate - especially  when Synastry  is added it looks too heavy  for me to bring up with something.So once again thanks Rad for your patience and encouragement, also my deep love to all those who contributed to the forum and making it a valuable resource to learn EA.

Thanks you
Sree
   

Hi Tashi,

Thanks for taking the time to contribute. God Bless, Rad

Quote from: Rad on Dec 15, 2016, 05:22 AM


So we want to focus on Shaw's Nodal Axis with his S.Node in Scorpio in her 4th, ruled by his Pluto/Moon in her 5th.  That S.Node is conjunct Chloe's CERES, and Sun.  

Does this reveal through his S.Node (past life trauma) in which she lost her life (Sun), family (Cancer So Node) motherhood,  and child  = CERES

Her Mars quinx Pluto His Mars opp her Pluto shows the violence that occurred in their past lives.  

Her Pluto in the 5h -the house of children, so also the loss of the child is shown here.  

Wouldn't this opposition correlate with the evolutionary need to proceed by confrontation?   Is this the lifetime of confrontation ( her being born as his sister)  wherein Shaw is learning - as Kristen has shared - to unconditional love his sister, and accept her unconditional love, thus helping to heal their past life traumas.
And will Shaw confront  as you said earlier in a thread...

"related to the family inheritance correlating with a variety of circumstances concerning that inheritance:  social positions, stature, money, and so on, that were the basis of conflict between them as brother and sister."

Yes to all of this

His Neptune, which squares his Nodes correlating to his skipped steps because it is square his Nodal Axis, lands in her 7th House and is conjunct her Jupiter, Moon, Neptune, and Chiron.  Did he wound her (chiron, motherhood (moon) because he had false beliefs (neptune) which limited him from aligning with Natural Law.(Jupiter)  

This about beliefs he projected upon her relative the fact that they had become sexual leading the a pregnancy where those beliefs reflected avoiding one of his own major lessons, skipped steps, that are about learning to accept the responsibility in his own actions. Thus blaming her totally for this.

 He must find a way to clear out the Neptune interactions with her and heal the wounds he caused her and the child and the family.  If I am getting the story that has been told here this was in retaliation for her winning against siblings to( see your above quote)  inherit, income, status, etc...  Whose Neptune is the deceiver.  She deceived him to win the inheritances?

Yes, manipulating that lead to deceptions as a means of manipulation ...

So,she has to deal with the remnants of that.  

Is it as you say her unconditional love (Neptune trine Venus) for him  and is this playing into his Neptune square his Nodal Axis, that lands in her 7th House and is conjunct her Jupiter, Moon, Neptune, and Chiron)  that is bringing them back together so that forgiveness and atonement and healing can ensue?

Yes

 Or does she have the same limiting beliefs because of her guilt.

No

I don't know her evolutionary state.  But having Upsikaya's really incredible insights it looks like they are both going to be struggling with this.  It looks like her denial is still very strong with the Saturn square Pluto and she will have to confront her compression this time.

I don't remember reading about their religious conditioning in this life, but if their mother is consulting with Kristen there must be a lot of openness in terms of alignment to Natural Law, so that seems to bode well for Chloe and Shaw. I give a 108* degree between the rulers of Chloes's natal lunar nodes,
and to me this seems to be bringing it all to the fore in this life and bringing in the high energy of Kristin, who is a very exceptionally gifted astrologer and communicator.

* I am referring to 108 degrees just past the crescent septile 102 degrees which JWG says only give a small 1 or 2 degree orb.  

And with her 7h stellium including BIG LOVE NEPTUNE must she also learn not to play into a role in which she idealizes him and does not see his woundedness.  She must see hers as well and learn how to maneuver a 7th house stellium so that she no longer gives herself away.

His Mercury in Aries which is in her 9th House squares her S.Node in Cancer in the 12th which is conjunct Shaw's own Ceres, and is also square her N.Node in Capricorn in her 6th House which is also Shaw's Juno and Chiron.  

Does the Mercury in Aries want to pioneer to learn natural law in this life?  

He is learning about be honest and truthful in all things, the truth of anything, including his own truth and the truth of others. He is naturally attracted to Nature and being within it. In that way the understanding/ knowledge of natural laws will take place.

Ruled by Mars in Cancer , which is delineated by the Moon in a chord with Jupiter, Chiron and Neptune, there is a lot to overcome .  Beginning with facing the inability to accept the natural outcome of their union, the child - a source of the wounding.  Cere'sJuno/Nodes"¦ Ceres=motherhood/child/  Juno can be betrayal.  

I remember JWG teaching this karmic pattern in Laguna Beach.  

These souls often have guilt because they have assumed the truth of the man-made rules that their actions were immoral or wrong.  They have to see that what happened to them is not a violation of Natural Law.  In Natural Law, in ancient times children were raised in tribes, no one even knew who their mother or father were, and JWG taught us that it wasn't until this man made morality came into play that guilt and shame were thrown into the human man made morality, in violation of Natural Law.  

Now they don't have the tribal situation here unless it is repeating, which I am sorry to say I don't know how to see that.  I assume we use the planetary nodes to do so.  But if you can point that out to me I will be very grateful.

The guilt of that occurred because of the sexual union leading to the pregnancy is a function of patriarchal/ religious conditioning. That nature of that life they they were leaving in that life, the context of it defined by the parental reality at that time which one one of social power and the their positions within that society, is that which caused Shaw to do what he did to her.

"¦"¦ what the nature of the skipped steps that she is responsible for with him, and WHY THOSE SKIPPED STEPS HAVE BEEN CREATED.

She has to align with Natural Law as described above.  So does he.  They have to forgive the guilt they have because of the man made morality.

The skipped steps are not about natural laws.

She has felt unloved for her own nature: that which she intrinsically is. She has of course, as any child would, want to be loved and validated by her parents. When this does not occur it leads to displaced emotions that manifest towards others whom the Soul feels can provide that love and validation.

I see that she must become self reliant with the ruler of her North Node in the 2h Saturn at 29 Virgo. She will have to continue to self-improve with that  Saturn in Virgo and North Node in 6h  And  she has to establish good boundaries with Shaw this time.  She must get her own identity based on her values, her own talents and her expanding understanding of Natural Law.  She must use her Pluto 5h talents and resources to ensure she is and can be (2h ruler) self reliant and self loving, self respecting.  

Q:Does the 29 Virgo mean what it means in the old astrology, "that there is an intensity at 29, to accomplish this task?"

Yes

She must do something creative again, so that she does not repeat the intensity( Pluto5h) of the past where she projected her need for self -acceptance ( 2h) onto him.  Although she should not feel gulity that she did that as siblings, she has a history of doing this, and its time to stop it.  VENUS PALLAS MERCURY can find a better way of being doing it.  

JwG says the answer is in the problem.  

The problem is her skipped step Venus( 2=self reliance, 7 healthy balanced relationship love) Pallas and Mercury ( sibling rivalry).  

One of the core of her skipped steps with him involves her need, Venus, to see him as he is. She has relative to his soul: she sees/ knows/ loves his soul which has blinded her from seeing the egocentric structures that his soul has created for his own evolutionary needs. Thus, crisis's created with him have this as one of the core underpinnings relative to those skipped steps with him.

Could that also be a solution.  Healthy sibling rivalry balanced through Love!

So as she is dealing from lifetime to lifetime with the issues of a lack of self love.  Her Venus in the 2nd house as a skipped step shows us she needs to value herself, but that Venus is in LIBRA - she has to deal with her 7h relationship(s), relating in a more considerate manner, Aquarius, real friendship this time.
 And she is going to have to sort out their mutual betrayals as they mature, through some learning/teaching (Mercury skstep)/co-operative endeavor.  PPP in 11h  And they have an evolutionary astrologer, so something is going well.

Yes, but this is also about skipped steps they have together: seeing/ knowing/ learning from each other by OBJECTIFYING THE REALITY OF EACH OTHER WITH ONE ANOTHER.

Could it be as simple as staying friends and nurturing even teaching talents to each other's offspring, to heal their unborn child's karma, perhaps the child will be born to Shaw, a female child, his Pluto Moon in her fifth house.  Just wondering as it seems this within the archetypal possibilities.

Yes  

1.   Traumas. ( Certainly their horrible family situations and then the child's and Chloe's death continues it, but what brought on the family situation, because she was so selfish and competitive when in her high born families?  Her Mars conjunction to her Lunar South Node?

Her Soul created those family situations, particularity with the fathers, in order to learn inner emotional security and self reliance: to actualize herself from within herself instead of creating the realities of others for herself in order to feel loved and accepted.

2.   Guilt  that the soul has assumed because of man-made rules, morality that is man made about right and wrong.  ( Certainly finding oneself pregnant with one's teenage sister or brother could do this.  Saturn in Virgo, Both their Pluto's in th 5h of LOVE  But in the face of the patriarchal society where Shaw could not individuate and needed to stay safe with his herd/co dependence , he then sacrificed her life for his own fears?  

In essence, yes.

3.   Judgments  ( overcome her self loathing because of her love for Shaw in that previous life which caused their joint trauma)

Q:.   Are some souls also  working on the collective unconscious karma and have a specific piece of that puzzle to solve for humanity?  When souls have connections to the 14-20 Cancer Capricorn, the nodes of Pluto Uranus and Saturn I generally assume that.  Is that right?  

All souls, in the end, are working on the collective unconscious karma ..........

Are Chloes' Lunar south nodes within orb of this?  Again what is her evolutionary state?

So I am now seeing that her 2h house Saturn ruling her North Node in Capricorn in her sixth could possibly be turned into a way to be of support and service ( Virgo) to her family and to Shaw Not knowing her evolutionary state I cannot know what level of EA will it come through.  

We are focusing on the skipped steps between them in this thread, and now to resolve. This is the first life where they have actually had to same parents: mother / father. Relative to the past lives in which they always had the same father, different mothers, this is a big step to help them resolve those skipped steps that will  manifest for both of them as an ongoing commitment to one another and their family of origin.

  So one simple example when you look at Shaw's chart overlaid on top of her chart we can see how she wanted to be rescued by him that was fueled by how her soul took his soul into hers.

Rad, I am sorry I don't know what "how her soul took his soul into hers"  means here?

She took his soul into her totally: his soul into hers without any boundary's. Total absorption  of his soul into hers.

Can't wait to find out.... 

Hi Rad,

At the moment I will only read what others have been posting.

Thank you

All the best

Hi Rad,

I still need to catch up on what's been covered so far with the synastry charts, but its also a little busy this close to Christmas, so won't be able to post for a couple of days. Therefore if the group needs to move on before then just do so, one way or another I'll catch up in due course.

thanks Upasika

Hi Edward,

Thanks for taking the time to contribute. What you have shared is all within the realm of the archetypal possibilities between Shaw and Chloe.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Sree,

Thank you so much for sharing exactly where you are at with EA, your own growth, and how EA is progressively coming alive for you relative to those who are seeking you out: the correlation and observation that is so essential in learning EA. That is just fantastic Sree.

God Bless, Rad

As we learned at the beginning of this thread Shaw's interaction with his sister in this life has not been ideal.  He feels anger towards her for invading his space and perceived her as intruding when she first came into the family.  She, in turn, loves her brother and craves his attention.   In the past, Shaw and Chloe had become dependent on each other for emotional and psychological survival in order to cope with the difficult circumstances of their childhoods.   (His south node/Scorpio/4th, north node Taurus/10th square her Moon/Jupiter/Neptune in Aquarius/7th).  In effect, they would have created their own private world through physical proximity and dialogue.  Chloe probably found his storytelling quite captivating, the power and spontaneity of a new phase Pluto/Moon conjunction in Saggitarius/5th being channelled through a trine to his Mercury/Aries in her 9th house, sextile her Neptune in Aquarius/7th - in effect removing her from the harsh reality of an emotionally fractured internal life.

Through the limitations inherent in Pluto and the implied evolutionary necessity to grow and evolve, their interactions could often devolve into personal clashes as the argumentative, opinionated and self-righteous nature of Shaw's Mercury/Aries/9th trine his Pluto/Moon/Sag/5th could hurt her emotionally through his criticism of her.  (His Mercury/Aries/ inconjunct her Saturn/Virgo/2nd).  This in turn, would hurt her own self-image and reflect the criticisms she received from the fathers who thought she was never good enough.   She might not have been able to connect her own competitive and bossy nature to the breakdown of their interaction.

Shaw's Neptune/Aquarius/7th is trine Chloe's Venus/Libra 3rd and conjunct her stellium in her 7th (Jupiter/Moon/Neptune in Aquarius).   Her Moon in Aquarius displaces her south node in Cancer and is inconjunct his Neptune.  Chloe has been captivated by her brother in the past, his attention filling the void left by the unrequited love and attention she really wanted from her parents.  The extremes in how Chloe and Shaw have interacted in the past can also be seen (at least in part) through Shaw's Mercury/Aries/9th opposite Chloe's Venus/Libra/3rd.  This is also one of the indications of their sexual union which happened partly through displaced emotions (her Venus inconjunct Uranus/Pisces/8th).  This has in turn has created crises when, from the point of view of patriarchal reality, "lines" were crossed when they became intimate with each other, and a child being the result of their union. 

Both these siblings have, at various times in the evolutionary past,  felt powerless in the face of the family dynamics they were born into.  Their sexual union probably would have happened quite naturally in an attempt at counterbalance, so that they would have felt stronger and more empowered through an osmosing of each other's creative energy.   Chloe and Shaw were essentially isolated from meaningful interaction with their peers (they both have Aquarius on the 7th and Uranus in Pisces in the 8th), so that void also would have been filled through each other.

In order to recover one of the skipped steps between them, Shaw must learn that his own compulsive desires for attention in order to feel secure (his Pluto/Moon Sag in her 5th, his south node in Scorpio, her 4th) are co-generating the "unwanted" attention from his sister.  He may feel he wants to move on, but the emotional dependence he has had on his sister in the past has not yet been fully resolved.  These two are like mirrors of each other.  His own compulsive need for attention is actually generating that very thing in the presence of his sister.  Deep introspection relative to his emotional dependencies might help bring into consciousness his own desires which hopefully would help him accept responsibility for unconscious projections.  They are, in effect, projecting on to each other in a way that is unrealistic and an illusion.

Shaw has an inner void (Moon 6th, Jupiter/Virgo 2nd) and does not really know who he is (also indicated by that new phase conjunction between Pluto/Moon/Sag/5th/6th - more instinctual than not.)  His parents did not provide the emotional support and encouragement a child naturally needs, so, in projecting those needs outward into the world will become, outwardly at least, what others want him to become in order to get the attention he needs.  He will also initiate relationships with others, presenting himself as something he is not, in order to manipulate people to get what he wants.  He will also have equally unrealistic expectation of others.  This would of course be unconscious.

Chloe and Shaw will continue to be together in future lives until they both learn to find their own inner creativity and inner security that is unique to themselves, and to encourage that within each other, as separate individuals, and to not be dependent on each other, and especially not to be competitive with each other, respecting the creative needs and impulses of the other.  This, in part, can be done through objective dialogue and giving each other the space they need to self-nurture and grow.  In this way, they can continue on their own individual paths individually and together.

I think that sometime in the future, they will have to complete and bring to resolution the karma they have with the baby they created together.

Thanks for all the comments people have already made, and I used them in forming this analysis.  Hopefully some of this is close to the truth.....DDD

Hi DDD,

Thanks for taking the time to contribute. Your EA reasoning is very sound, and accurate. The only exception is when you said about Shaw being what others want him to be in order to get the attention his needs. Just the opposite has been and is true about his Soul: being fully aware of himself, nationalistically so, to the point of projecting himself into the realities of others in that way. A kind of take it or leave it attitude and orientation to life.

Other than that good work DDD.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,
thanks for your comments.  Through Neptune in his 7th in Aquarius square the nodes, I was thinking he manufactured a people-pleasing self in order to get attention (even playing the victim).  But from what you said, am I correct in understanding that through his complete identification with the stature of his family of birth (south node Scorpio 4th ruled by Pluto 5th conjunct Moon Sag) he has used this as a means to justify his superior attitude when interacting with others? (being fully aware of himself, nationalistically so, as indicated in part by his Sun in Taurus (11th) conjunct the North Node in Taurus in the 10th House inconjunct his Pluto/Moon conjunction in Sag in the 5th?  Have I got that right?  Thanks as always.  DDD

Hi DDD,

Yes !

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

I'm sorry for not answering earlier, as i missed your question from yesterday's post.

At this point i'll also be focusing on what is being said and following from there.

Thank you,
Helena

Thanks Rad for your teachings

So grateful for this forum  There is still so much to learn., and I truly appreciate this opportunity.

  So one simple example when you look at Shaw's chart overlaid on top of her chart we can see how she wanted to be rescued by him that was fueled by how her soul took his soul into hers.

I have to admit I don't know what you are talking about when you say she took his soul into hers... I can't find it in the EA glossary   Is it okay to ask for further explanation?  Especially as it relates to these two and what that looks like astrologically? 

Tashi

Hi Tashi,

This means just like a mother would take into her soul a newborn child. It's like a puddle of water on the counter that you put a sponge on, and that sponge totally absorbs the water. I have no idea where this would be in the glossary.

Review all that has been written to date so you can see the symbolism for this in her Soul to his starting with her S.Nodes of Mars and Mercury on his Sun and Vesta, her S.Node of Venus in his 5th: all in Scorpio.

God Bless, Rad

All,

We will now be taking a little break for the holidays. When we resume we will pick up exactly where we have left off: a review of the key skipped steps relative to Chloe's relationship to Shaw. After that we will be working with their composite chart, and the skipped steps symbolized there.

From me to all of you who have been contributing to this thread have a HAPPY HOLIDAY.

God Bless, Rad