Old EA Message Board

NEPTUNE SKIPPED STEPS

Quote from: Linda on Dec 17, 2014, 03:00 PM

Hi Jen,

NEPTUNE SKIPPED STEPS

The above questions are what I would consider asking in terms of your Neptune skipped steps. At this stage if there's anything that stands out and you would like to share, please go ahead.

Quote from: Linda on Dec 16, 2014, 06:42 PM
Neptune Sagittarius 10th skipped steps can correlate to a hiding signature. Maybe Jen is now in the process of resolving those skipped steps by coming out of hiding and broadcasting herself to the wider community via this one-year thread.

Jen: It definitely feels like this could be true. I would have never found myself doing this in the past and I have had to confront and process a number of fears already so it most certainly feels like evolutionary progress.

Are you able to share these fears?  Perhaps they may give us a clue into what happened in distant past lives that resulted in the Soul creating skipped steps.

Jen: The fears have been quite irrational. Mostly about being exposed and being judged. They seem to be very deeply rooted and more like a feeling of anxiety and fear than something concrete and conscious.

The orb of your Neptune skipped steps is 9 degrees. This means your skipped steps are very close to being resolved. You've been working on this area for lifetimes. In this life, loose ends are being tied up. Here's a quote from the EA Glossary:

Archetype of judgment (Capricorn) manifesting through Neptune

What JWG taught is that judgment as an archetype in human consciousness is natural, and that the archetype of judgment in and of itself is Capricorn, the 10th house, and Saturn. He taught that the issue is not the right or wrongness of judgment as such, BUT THE CONTENT USED TO MAKE JUDGMENTS IN THE FIRST PLACE. Is that content rooted in Natural Laws, or is that content merely a collection of all kinds of man-made laws that have nothing to do with Natural Laws. When the archetype of judgment that emanates from the 10th house, Capricorn, or Saturn manifests through the 12th house, Neptune, or Pisces that then can correlate with the judgments made about spiritual disciplines, practices, the "˜rights and wrongs' of spiritual life, of various gods and goddesses, and, of course, one's own relationship to all things spiritual. He taught a lot about all the artificial man-made rules and laws concerning spiritual life, all the "˜should be's' so to speak. And how any Soul who enters spiritual life where the nature of that spiritual life has been created and defined by man-made laws that the judgments made either through one's own inner judgment of itself, or judgments made and projected upon others and oneself, that this commonly leads to not being good enough as measured against these man-made spiritual doctrines. This is why he talked and taught so much about the difference between these man-created, patriarchal, spiritual disciplines and their "˜teachings' versus what natural spirituality is, what the Natural Laws are, and thus to change the very nature of the CONTENT used to make the judgments in the first place. (Rad)

Can you relate to Rad's description above? If so, perhaps those areas could be outlined at your convenience.

EVOLUTIONARY/KARMIC AXIS

Before we move too quickly we are still establishing your Pluto signature - the evolutionary/karmic axis - since it is through this foundation that any symbol in the chart can be properly understood. We began with Pluto in the 8th house which is the top level of your EA signature. If there's anything you'd like to add to your Pluto in the 8th house signature, please do. Soon I will post some information on Pluto in Libra, which will be the next level of your EA signature.

I'm working on a table of correlations of your quotes to the chart. As we build on this, we will eventually arrive at a very accurate picture of your Soul's evolutionary intentions.

Much appreciation for being a great volunteer!

Thanks,

Linda

Hello Linda and everyone,

Yes, I can relate to Rad´s description of the Archetype of judgment (Capricorn) manifesting through Neptune. In my life nothing natural has been supported. It has been totally riddled with patriarchal conditioning from an early age. I feel that I have been judged and rejected for being natural in many different ways throughout life. I have both lived naturally and conformed in different stages of my life. Some examples..

-   Religion was supported but not any form of natural spirituality as this was seen as sect-like or weird.

-   I was encouraged or rather pushed to wear makeup and make an effort to look/talk/walk the way a woman is supposed to from an early age (14-15 possibly earlier).

-   When I awakened to the distortions of man-made law and expressed it, nobody in the world believed or understood me. I was told that I was delusional and that I needed psychiatric help and medication.

-   When I decided not to christen my first child this caused trauma to my family who believed the baby could end up in purgatory.

-   I am questioned for eating organic food, pressured to use chemical dyes on my hair, take medication instead of natural alternatives, not to mention the choice not to vaccinate.

-       I am told that my 1 1/2 year old needs to go to preschool and I was constantly nagged to stop nursing her. (With my first child I listened and did as I was pressured by society and family and deeply regretted not listening to my own intuition.)

-   Since I found and embraced spirituality my family has suggested I see a psychologist for displaying emotion. I was told that it is as if I have joined a sect. This was really difficult as I have never felt so complete. The whole family were against me and I totally broke down. This is the last time I spoke of my life as it is. I live it separately and although I am close to my family it is only on the basis that I adapt to them.

There is much more..


Much appreciation for allowing me to be a part of this journey!

<3
Jen

Dear Jen,

Thank you for replying to my question of Vesta and its focus through Uranus...
I am sorry I was not more succinct.

I have retrieved this for some indication of the energies that can manifest through this configuration. This from Bob Marks may help:

QuoteUranus opposed Vesta
Your need for freedom and unhampered exploration seems to run contrary to the spiritual ideals you hold dear, and a dichotomy exists within your psyche over traditional, cherished beliefs and the free expression of individuality. Sexuality may be a core issue, with ideas of sacrifice and celibacy facing off with the need for radical freedom. You could easily become a fanatic, either strongly opposing any commitment to spiritual traditions or conversely being over-zealous in your attempts to convert others to your way of thinking. Intellect and devotion may be polarized in your psychological makeup as are freedom and commitment. It is very advisable to find a working compromise, otherwise this dynamic is likely to be projected into an oppositional relationship, creating much tension.
found at http://members.wizzards.net/~magyan/Uranus_Aspects.html

I see the above as a rather "lower order "manifestation in adulthood, but the general base theme is expressed well. I believe that some of this may have surfaced in adolescence? This would give you the necessary polarity to say, "this is where I am not going again..." As an adult, you may have moved away from expressing this through any type of physical promiscuity, but I believe I am seeing this polarity or oppositional force described in the struggle with your familial relationships. Vesta dedication, Uranus Separation. I am guessing, through this train of thought, that this is something that must be worked through spiritually, based on Neptune's skipped steps.

Additionally, I am wondering if you have siblings and how they have impacted your path... please forgive if you have already made mention, I missed it. Being led by both Chiron & Vesta in the 3rd, as may be obvious, additionally a 4th house Gemini can indicate siblings in the home.

With Uranus ruling your Ascendant, I see the Vesta/Uranus focused yod playing out physically & in your environment... I hope all of this helps you to determine what has occurred in your life along these themes.

I will tell you I really see this energy, which could be very difficult as a child, transforming into a sincere dedication (Vesta) to sending out a message (3rd) of a new & inspired form of spirituality (Uranus 9th) exactly as you were saying. I believe you must write & speak & share your ideas.

Thank you,
Dawn Cerise

Hello Dawn Cerice,

Uranus opposed Vesta

Quote from: dawncerise on Dec 18, 2014, 09:23 AM

QuoteUranus opposed Vesta
Your need for freedom and unhampered exploration seems to run contrary to the spiritual ideals you hold dear, and a dichotomy exists within your psyche over traditional, cherished beliefs and the free expression of individuality. Sexuality may be a core issue, with ideas of sacrifice and celibacy facing off with the need for radical freedom. You could easily become a fanatic, either strongly opposing any commitment to spiritual traditions or conversely being over-zealous in your attempts to convert others to your way of thinking. Intellect and devotion may be polarized in your psychological makeup as are freedom and commitment. It is very advisable to find a working compromise, otherwise this dynamic is likely to be projected into an oppositional relationship, creating much tension.
found at http://members.wizzards.net/~magyan/Uranus_Aspects.html

I see the above as a rather "lower order "manifestation in adulthood, but the general base theme is expressed well. I believe that some of this may have surfaced in adolescence? This would give you the necessary polarity to say, "this is where I am not going again..." As an adult, you may have moved away from expressing this through any type of physical promiscuity, but I believe I am seeing this polarity or oppositional force described in the struggle with your familial relationships. Vesta dedication, Uranus Separation. I am guessing, through this train of thought, that this is something that must be worked through spiritually, based on Neptune's skipped steps.

I have tried to see how these archetypes have manifested for myself and cannot see it. I have never committed to any spiritual or religious practices but I have never opposed them either. I was in my first committed relationship from age 15 and was very good and played house for the years that it lasted. I was then only single for a short period of time before meeting my first husband. I have dressed provocatively but that is as far as promiscuity is involved and I'm not sure if that is more to do with the Moon Uranus in Scorpio? How else can this manifest?

Quote from: dawncerise on Dec 18, 2014, 09:23 AM

Additionally, I am wondering if you have siblings and how they have impacted your path... please forgive if you have already made mention, I missed it. Being led by both Chiron & Vesta in the 3rd, as may be obvious, additionally a 4th house Gemini can indicate siblings in the home.

I do have 3 younger sisters. The eldest of them close to my age and the other two many years younger so I have had more of a mother/sister relationship to them. I am not sure how they have impacted my path. The relationship I have to my closest sister is one where I guide her (secretly) while she believes that she is the one with all the knowledge of how life is and should be. We are opposites in many ways. She believes in University studies, corporate media and brand names. But on a core level we share the same values.

Thank you!
Jen

FINAL DISPOSITOR


Hi Linda, and Moderators,
When the Sun is in Virgo and Mercury is in Leo i.e. in mutual reception...
It is not a single point, of a final dispositor, but a circuit in reception. I have some ideas as to WHY it is that a Soul would create this kind of a condition for itself...but better to ask than to confuse others with my guesswork.*

Thank you!

God bless,

Katherine

*snowshoes

FINAL DISPOSITOR

Hi Linda,
Thanks for your response.  

My understanding of a final dispositor is that it is a planet ruled by it's own sign.  (If this condition isn't met then there is no actual final dispositor, but sometimes there can be cases of reception.)  

The utmost point upstream, it can sway, or call downwind, everything below it-to what extent I don't know because I am not well versed in traditional western astrology.  So, the "˜bottom-line' is less of the deep Pluto vasana, that I think of in EA as a true bottom-line, but more of a thread, an undercurrent.

I did find that JWG section in the glossary, but thanks for posting it here for reference.

God bless,

Katherine

Hi Katherine,

FINAL DISPOSITOR

[Correction:  There is no final dispositor in Jen's chart because there is no planet ruled by its own sign.  For this reason, I deleted my last post.  Thanks for drawing attention to this, Katherine.]

The final dispositor is a planet in its own sign (eg Moon in Cancer, Mars in Aries, Jupiter in Sagittarius) that all the rest of the planets in the chart can be traced back to.  The final dispositor is important because it has complete autonomy, and its power is magnified.

If there are 2 or more planets in their own signs, then there is no final dispositor in the chart.  

In the case of 3 planets dispositing each other - example, Mercury in Sagittarius ruled by Jupiter in Capricorn ruled by Saturn in Virgo - this could be called a rulership loop.

All rulership trees in Jen's chart end in the mutual reception between Mercury in Leo and Sun in Virgo.  When a condition such as this exists, there can be no final dispositor.

We will be asking the EA question:  

What is the evolutionary necessity of having Mercury Leo 7th and Sun Virgo 7th in mutual reception?

Thanks for spotting the Mutual Reception, Katherine!

Linda

Hi All,

There are also dispositors by House, in the case of this chart it seems one of the key planets to look at is Venus which is in it´s own house, which rules Pluto which is also in its own house. Venus is also conjunct the North Node of the Moon.

On Astro.com you can see the dispositor graphs under: Extended horoscopes/ Methods/Pullen Astrolog

Below I will attach the one for Jen´s chart.

Great thread Linda, Cat and everyone else!

All the best

Hi Everyone,

FINAL DISPOSITOR

Quote from: Skywalker on Dec 19, 2014, 02:43 AM
There are also dispositors by House, in the case of this chart it seems one of the key planets to look at is Venus which is in it´s own house, which rules Pluto which is also in its own house. Venus is also conjunct the North Node of the Moon.

This actually makes a lot of sense. Pluto and Venus are both in their respective houses. However do they need to be the same sign not the house to be classified as the dispositor? As EA works with the 3 archetypes being the same it would seem to appear that way to me.
This is more of a clarification purpose on my end.

FINAL DISPOSITOR

Hi Simon,

I´m not sure I understand what you are asking. There is the final dispositor of the sign and also of the house. In order to be the dispositor of the house, the planet needs to be in its own natural house, like Pluto in the 8th, and the same goes for the sign, where the planet needs to be in the sign it rules, like Venus in Libra.

The graph I posted shows how one planet leads to another by its natural house rulership. Like how Jen´s Moon in Scorpio in the Ninth house, is disposited by Jupiter because Jupiter is the natural ruler of the Ninth house. This is by house, by sign her Moon in Scorpio is disposited by Pluto in Libra, which is disposited by Venus in Virgo, which then points to Mercury in Leo and finally to the Sun in Virgo which is in a mutual reception with Mercury and, there is no one final dispositor. Both the Sun and Mercury act as final dispositors by sign in this chart, through the mutual reception, in my understanding.

Hope that cleared it up.

All the best

Quote from: Skywalker on Dec 19, 2014, 11:37 AM

I´m not sure I understand what you are asking. There is the final dispositor of the sign and also of the house. In order to be the dispositor of the house, the planet needs to be in its own natural house, like Pluto in the 8th, and the same goes for the sign, where the planet needs to be in the sign it rules, like Venus in Libra.

The graph I posted shows how one planet leads to another by its natural house rulership. Like how Jen´s Moon in Scorpio in the Ninth house, is disposited by Jupiter because Jupiter is the natural ruler of the Ninth house. This is by house, by sign her Moon in Scorpio is disposited by Pluto in Libra, which is disposited by Venus in Virgo, which then points to Mercury in Leo and finally to the Sun in Virgo which is in a mutual reception with Mercury and, there is no one final dispositor. Both the Sun and Mercury act as final dispositors by sign in this chart, through the mutual reception, in my understanding.

Hi Skywalker and Simon,

DISPOSITORSHIP

Your statement above in blue was how I also understood final dispositor, but it is incorrect.

If there is a mutual reception, then there can be no final dispositor.

The final dispositor of the entire chart is a planet in its own sign (eg Moon in Cancer, Mars in Aries, Jupiter in Sagittarius) that all the rest of the planets in the chart can be traced back to.  

Since Mercury in Leo and Sun in Virgo are not in their own signs, then there is no final dispositor in Jen's chart.  However, they are in mutual reception at the end of each dispositor circuit or rulership tree.

I think the confusion lies in the terms "FINAL dispositor" -v- "dispositor."  Dispositor is what we term the RULER (of a planet, sign or house).  Final dispositor specifically relates to a planet in its own sign that the rest of the planets in the chart can be traced back to.

So, I've changed the heading of this post to Dispositorship (rather than final dispositor).

According to the Astrodienst diagram, we will be asking the EA question, What is the evolutionary necessity of:

Sign Dispositor Hierarchy:  SUN / MERCURY

House Dispositor Hierarchy:  VENUS 7th / PLUTO 8th


Thanks,

Linda

Dispositorship

Hi Linda,

I know what you mean, there is no one final dispositor but in my understanding, which can of course be incorrect, they do have a special significance and relationship since they are at the end of the "circuit" as you said, thus ACT as final dispositors or in a similar way, but together via the mutual reception.

All the best

Quote from: Skywalker on Dec 19, 2014, 12:29 PM
Dispositorship

Hi Linda,

I know what you mean, there is no one final dispositor but in my understanding, which can of course be incorrect, they do have a special significance and relationship since they are at the end of the "circuit" as you said, thus ACT as final dispositors or in a similar way, but together via the mutual reception.

All the best

DISPOSITORSHIP


I completely agree, Skywalker, they certainly DO have a special significance and act in a similar way to a Final Dispositor, that's why I included the EA question:

What is the evolutionary necessity of

Sign Dispositorship - SUN / MERCURY - occurring at the end of the circuit   

House Dispositorship - VENUS 7th / PLUTO 8th - occurring at the end of the circuit   

However, the term "Final Dispositor" in conventional astrology, means something very specific - and does not relate to the above hierarchical trees.

It's just a matter of getting the terms right.


Thanks,

Linda

Hello Jen and everyone,


URANUS/PLUTO SQUARES 2012-2015


                                                                          Aspecting Jen's chart using a 1 deg orb      

26 June 2012                 8 deg Capricorn/Aries        PLUTO TRINE NORTH NODE

19 September 2012        6 deg Capricorn/Aries        PLUTO TRINE VENUS;  PLUTO TRINE SEDNA

21 May 2013                 11 deg Capricorn/Aries   

1 November 2013          11 deg Capricorn/Aries

21 April 2014                13 deg Capricorn/Aries        PLUTO OPP MARS;  PLUTO TRINE CHIRON

15 December 2014        12 deg Capricorn/Aries        PLUTO OPP MARS

[17 March 2015              15 deg Capricorn/Aries       PLUTO OPP MARS;  PLUTO TRINE SATURN]


The transpersonal force of the Uranus/Pluto squares is the most significant planetary influence of our times.

Can you remember what real life experiences happened for you around the time of the above dates?


Thanks,

Linda

EVOLUTIONARY/KARMIC AXIS


Pluto in Libra


Libra is cardinal, indicating a new evolutionary cycle is underway. To experience the intent of this cycle Pluto Libra people have been involved in a variety of relationships. Through this comes exposure to different value and belief systems of all kinds. Through this process these people come to understand who they are through comparing self with the others they are in relationship with. A fundamental issue is how to be in relationships. They will have felt in the past, and will continue to feel, a fundamental need to be in relationships. This is due to the desire to complete self through the relations with others, and to unite self with others. They need to be in relationships to feel fulfilled and complete. Most have not yet learned how to be in relationship on an equal basis. They may become involved in too many relationships and take in too many differing points of view. They can lose their sense of who they are in this process.

They can become dependent on the advice and opinions of others to help them determine who they are or what they should be doing with their lives. When in this state, they can't relate to themselves without relating to others. They do not like being alone. They will become attracted to powerful people who appear to be stable and have the ability to guide the Pluto Libra person. They become dependent on the partner. They can become dominated to the extent that they feel the other person's needs and desires are actually their own. They have become an extension of the other person's ego. In other cases, due to the polarities of extremity, they can become the dominating partner. They can attract those who will become dependent on them, giving a false sense of power and control over others.

They generally have karma with a variety of people. This creates situations where one or the other leaves the relationship, without the other person desiring this outcome, or they become mutually dependent on each other. The imbalances in relationships create confrontations to force the person to examine the relationship; to learn how to give to others and have one's own needs met through that. Because the impulse is new, most of them have not yet mastered the ability to live this way. This leads to conditional love, "˜I will love you when you <whatever>.' This comes from projecting expectations onto partners, or having partners project expectations on the Pluto Libra person.

They are learning how to give and receive love. As this has not been mastered, situations may arise where they cannot accept what comes their way, or the partner may not recognize the love they are trying to offer. This is necessary so they can learn to relate in a way of equality and balance. It also teaches them what their relationship needs are, who they are because of relationships, and to develop social values of how people should relate to each other. They enforce the lesson of minimizing dependency. They will finally realize they need to be needed, and will see how this need controls the dynamics of their relationships. They will learn when and what to give and when and what not to give.

(paraphrased from JWG's Pluto Vol. 1 and the School's DVD course)