Old EA Message Board

Pluto Uranus new phase conjunction in Virgo in the second house
South node in Scorpio in the 5th
Venus squaring the nodes in Aquarius in the 7th.
Pluto Uranus trine north node.
Canadian, upper middle class, male- end of first stage individuated

Prior to this life, this soul's underlying desire that has motivated past incarnations has been to develop his core inner relationship to himself. He has done so by focusing on the ways in which he can improve and develop himself in such a way that would lead to deeper more conscious capacity for self reliance (Pluto in Virgo in the second house).

The south node being in Scorpio in the 5th house, that ruler being Pluto in Virgo in the second- implies that he has developed a self image of himself as "powerful" which how he found profound meaning and self sufficiency from within. Therefore he has naturally inhabited service type roles that focus on his power through the vehicle of his sexuality (south node in scorpio in the 5th, ruled by Pluto in Virgo in the 5th).

This soul has sought to liberate from external conditions that prevent from a direct experience of his inner core. Therefore, it has created traumatic experiences for itself through which it was faced with it's sense of lack when it comes to being sexually powerful, being powerful in and of himself, being self sufficient, and having something valuable to offer others in relationship. The nature of there events has catalyzed an inner, deeply internalized insecurity that he is not good enough- this then leading to a pattern of over compensation through which he needs to PROVE to himself and thus others his own worth. This being done through developing a self image as powerful. All this implied by The Pluto Uranus conjunction, Pluto as ruler of the south node, and Venus inconjunct Uranus.

This soul has become so immensely self focused that he has succeeded in excluding a objective awareness of who other people are, and what they need (Venus in Aquarius in 7th) from his feild of vision (5th house). He has naturally had relationships with others- in particular those who are not at all like him (north node in the 11th house, ruled by venus in aquarius in the 7th squaring the nodes) who in virtue of them being different, brought up an unbearable feeling of lack for this soul. Relative to this soul's evolutionary stage, these relationships would have been with others, presumably women (the ultimate "other") with whom he didn't have the tools and the inner capacity to truly care for, care about, and listen to these other human beings. But rather internalized all responses as an indication of how special he is. This has lead to experiences of abandonment and loss of his relationships and honor from others.

At this evolutionary state, he is facing his actual nature- and the social consequences of his nature. The dynamics of this chart indicate that he would have experienced oppression based on his sexuality, his sexual nature. And so, in addition to the above mentioned relationship patterns- an even deeper cause would have been persecution and attack from partners who were at a lower evolutionary state. This persecution based on him wanting to explore a more authentic expression and way of intimacy with others- and the other not being ok with that. In the end, his partners projected a reality upon this soul that wasn't true- and in the end failed to see him for who he was. In the end, he experienced himself as a victim to other people's regressive thinking. This manifested itself via actual shock- actual trauma and excommunication from his social spheres (All the Aquarius). This also created situations in which he has been very sexually repressed because of partners that didn't want to explore sexuality in the way that he did (venus in Aquarius 7th inconjunct pluto Uranus in second in Virgo).

All this as a result has alienated him further- pushing him more deeply into the individuated state.

In this life time, in order for evolution to proceed he has to deal with the patterns that he has created as a result of feeling alienated. This means this lifetime is all about dealing with the confusing confrontations (inconjunct) that occur between himself and others- especially when it comes to how he shares himself with others. Same sex relationships would be a natural gravitation for this soul on account of other men being a symbol of himself. Thus, I can see what your saying about the penis as a symbol of power. He has retreated (second house) deeply within himself as a means to validate and inflate his sense of purpose and power (scoprio in the 5th).

He may have chosen work through which he can be (covertly- as his actual nature is not yet in the open) asserting and experiencing his power. This may be a male dominimatrix type of thing, or a stripper, a sexual performer- or a person that enacts traumatic experiences for other people who want it, in order to give them what they want (re-creation of trauma) and provide a feeling of power for himself all the while recreating scenes of sexual trauma and rejection. This could be slapping someone else around, providing pain to others etc"¦ This is indicated by the second house planets and the aspects to it being in Virgo.

In the realm of personal relationships- it is utterly imperative that this soul learns how to stop internalized everything that comes from their partner. He is very paranoid of being ignored and betrayed by his partners. Engaging in relationships through which he can be seen, and in so doing also seeing his partner is key. This means developing intimacy with others (most likely men) who have also felt alienated from other people and don't feel seen for who they are. Together, they can honor each other and explore their sexuality as a means to gradually cultivate intimacy.

There is always a potential for either partner to become over concerned with them self, and in effect rehash paranoia and distrust. Also, patterns of manipulation through which affection is given and withheld depending on the emotional reality currently in place. This soul may easily retract his love, and close his heart when he feels that he is not being honored and seen by his partner. He may detach and become disinterested- retreating back into himself via his own capacity for self pleasure, and the satisfaction he gets via whatever work he does (as described above), or he may become overtly manipulative by picking on the weak points of his partner, degrading their sense of self worth all as a means to re-establish love for himself.

Evolution for this soul happens as he progressively begins to realize the nature of his patterns- and how they result in a stagnate retreat into himself. He can cultivate a willingness to objectively listen to others, and give according to what they need, as he begins to realize that he in fact IS powerful and can actually do meaningful work because of his power. This is indicated by Venus squaring the nodes- integrated through the south node which is ruled by Pluto in Virgo in the second house. His work, which is sexual and powerful in nature, will naturally involve creating relationships with others (Venus inconjunct Pluto Uranus).

His work ultimately serves as a gateway for him to let go of himself and actually listen to what other people want on account of realizing that he has everything that he needs within, and is therefore capable of giving of him self according to what others want (resolving Venus via the south node and it's ruler).

This leads to more conscious relationships with others who are at the same or close evolutionary stage. Together with others, he can learn how to listen to and authentically support one another, and increasingly find that there is community and other people out there that are just like him.

This soul then develops an image of himself as being a valuable member of social change and evolution on this planet (taurus nn in 11th) through the equal, authentic relationships he is creating (Venus Aquarius in 7th), and the empowerment and healing he experiences through those relationships. PPP is then enacted as the ability to let go of him self and merging with others (Pisces in the 8th). This fulfills the evolutionary intentions of this life as it implies that he no longer needs to prove and constantly work to assert his self worth/power.

Father and Children.
IF this soul has children (I can easily see that he wouldn't on account of children initially being viewed as a distraction from himself- and beings that will dethrone him so to speak), then his relationship with them would be an opportunity to learn how to let go of himself. His children too would naturally be seeking to establish a sense of inner empowerment and feelings of specialness. His role would ultimately to encourage authentic self-exploration and constant encouragement for the worth and value of his children. Otherwise, his children could grow up deeply resentful of their father.

Based on unresolved sexual trauma- oriented around his sense of specialness, there may have been some sexual abuse early in this life. His father may have been a very powerful and manipulative soul. One who was emotionally unavailable, and manipulated his child as a means to gain a sense of inner empowerment. Rebelling from the trauma of his father would be a very important part of this soul's journey.

All I really can say is that, if I was giving this soul a reading, I'd come into it knowing that father was very important. I'd want to hear about who his father was, what his father's sexual behavior was like, and if there was any abuse. I would check in to see how aware this soul is of how similar he is to his own father. I would help him see that in essence he is liberating from his own dissociation, unavailability, narcissism, paranoia etc"¦

Question: Can you help me go deeper into the nature of the inconjunct- especially as it relates to prior life trauma (inconjunct south node ruler and Uranus), and a current life strategy (ruler of nn)?

I don't feel I fully grasp the underlying nature of the inconjunct.

Thank you for guiding me Rad.

Ari,

Quote from: ari moshe on Mar 06, 2010, 10:21 PM
Pluto Uranus new phase conjunction in Virgo in the second house
South node in Scorpio in the 5th
Venus squaring the nodes in Aquarius in the 7th.
Pluto Uranus trine north node.
Canadian, upper middle class, male- end of first stage individuated

Prior to this life, this soul's underlying desire that has motivated past incarnations has been to develop his core inner relationship to himself. He has done so by focusing on the ways in which he can improve and develop himself in such a way that would lead to deeper more conscious capacity for self reliance (Pluto in Virgo in the second house).

The south node being in Scorpio in the 5th house, that ruler being Pluto in Virgo in the second- implies that he has developed a self image of himself as "powerful" which how he found profound meaning and self sufficiency from within. Therefore he has naturally inhabited service type roles that focus on his power through the vehicle of his sexuality (south node in scorpio in the 5th, ruled by Pluto in Virgo in the 5th).

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     He has naturally gravitated to any role that correlated with his survival needs, or the needs of those that he has loved and held dear. This would have also included groupings of people living together in community: N.Node in the 11th, ruler Venus in Aquarius in the 7th, inconjuncting his Pluto/Uranus in Virgo in the 2nd. With the S.Node in Scorpio in the 5th he would have had roles of leadership in such communities and would have felt the deep inner need to help the communities sustain themselves, to survive by whatever means available. He would have fought to his own death in defense of these communities, and those that he loved.

     The very nature of these symbols, on a personal level, correlate to a deeply private and emotionally withheld individual. Who he has been in the performance of his roles on behalf of others is very different that who he has been in his private life, his personal space. The very last thing this individual would have done is to use his sexuality in any kind of role linked to his or others survival needs. His sexuality is a very private and secretive thing for him in terms of others knowing about it.

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This soul has sought to liberate from external conditions that prevent from a direct experience of his inner core. Therefore, it has created traumatic experiences for itself through which it was faced with it's sense of lack when it comes to being sexually powerful, being powerful in and of himself, being self sufficient, and having something valuable to offer others in relationship. The nature of there events has catalyzed an inner, deeply internalized insecurity that he is not good enough- this then leading to a pattern of over compensation through which he needs to PROVE to himself and thus others his own worth. This being done through developing a self image as powerful. All this implied by The Pluto Uranus conjunction, Pluto as ruler of the south node, and Venus inconjunct Uranus.

This soul has become so immensely self focused that he has succeeded in excluding a objective awareness of who other people are, and what they need (Venus in Aquarius in 7th) from his feild of vision (5th house). He has naturally had relationships with others- in particular those who are not at all like him (north node in the 11th house, ruled by venus in aquarius in the 7th squaring the nodes) who in virtue of them being different, brought up an unbearable feeling of lack for this soul. Relative to this soul's evolutionary stage, these relationships would have been with others, presumably women (the ultimate "other") with whom he didn't have the tools and the inner capacity to truly care for, care about, and listen to these other human beings. But rather internalized all responses as an indication of how special he is. This has lead to experiences of abandonment and loss of his relationships and honor from others.

At this evolutionary state, he is facing his actual nature- and the social consequences of his nature. The dynamics of this chart indicate that he would have experienced oppression based on his sexuality, his sexual nature.

And so, in addition to the above mentioned relationship patterns- an even deeper cause would have been persecution and attack from partners who were at a lower evolutionary state. This persecution based on him wanting to explore a more authentic expression and way of intimacy with others- and the other not being ok with that. In the end, his partners projected a reality upon this soul that wasn't true- and in the end failed to see him for who he was. In the end, he experienced himself as a victim to other people's regressive thinking. This manifested itself via actual shock- actual trauma and excommunication from his social spheres (All the Aquarius). This also created situations in which he has been very sexually repressed because of partners that didn't want to explore sexuality in the way that he did (venus in Aquarius 7th inconjunct pluto Uranus in second in Virgo).

All this as a result has alienated him further- pushing him more deeply into the individuated state.

In this life time, in order for evolution to proceed he has to deal with the patterns that he has created as a result of feeling alienated. This means this lifetime is all about dealing with the confusing confrontations (inconjunct) that occur between himself and others- especially when it comes to how he shares himself with others. Same sex relationships would be a natural gravitation for this soul on account of other men being a symbol of himself. Thus, I can see what your saying about the penis as a symbol of power. He has retreated (second house) deeply within himself as a means to validate and inflate his sense of purpose and power (scoprio in the 5th).

He may have chosen work through which he can be (covertly- as his actual nature is not yet in the open) asserting and experiencing his power. This may be a male dominimatrix type of thing, or a stripper, a sexual performer- or a person that enacts traumatic experiences for other people who want it, in order to give them what they want (re-creation of trauma) and provide a feeling of power for himself all the while recreating scenes of sexual trauma and rejection. This could be slapping someone else around, providing pain to others etc"¦ This is indicated by the second house planets and the aspects to it being in Virgo.

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     No. Again, this would be the very last thing this Soul would do because he is a VERY DEEPLY PRIVATE PERSON. And, as a result, he would choose extremely carefully with whom he would share ANYTHING about himself, let alone his sexuality.

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In the realm of personal relationships- it is utterly imperative that this soul learns how to stop internalized everything that comes from their partner. He is very paranoid of being ignored and betrayed by his partners. Engaging in relationships through which he can be seen, and in so doing also seeing his partner is key. This means developing intimacy with others (most likely men) who have also felt alienated from other people and don't feel seen for who they are. Together, they can honor each other and explore their sexuality as a means to gradually cultivate intimacy.

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     He needs, as an ongoing evolutionary lesson, to discriminate relative to the 'feedback' from others about who he is, and what his internal emotional psychology is about: Venus inconjunct his Pluto/Uranus, relative to it's squares to his N.S.Nodes. For those who do know who he actually is, and gives him the appropriate feedback about himself via meaningful dialogs and discussions , then he needs to learn how to take this in because such dialogs and feedback serve to help him actualize himself. The Venus in Aquarius, relative to its square to the N.Node, Venus being in the 7th, has in fact correlated to other lives, and this one, in which key people have and will show up in his life for this very purpose. And these will be Souls who are actually more evolved than himself, or, at minimum, at exactly the same evolutionary gate that he is.

     Conversely, this necessary discrimination needs to weed out and rebel against any false evaluations and judgments about himself that are emanating from those who are lesser evolved: in the consensus.

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There is always a potential for either partner to become over concerned with them self, and in effect rehash paranoia and distrust. Also, patterns of manipulation through which affection is given and withheld depending on the emotional reality currently in place. This soul may easily retract his love, and close his heart when he feels that he is not being honored and seen by his partner. He may detach and become disinterested- retreating back into himself via his own capacity for self pleasure, and the satisfaction he gets via whatever work he does (as described above), or he may become overtly manipulative by picking on the weak points of his partner, degrading their sense of self worth all as a means to re-establish love for himself.

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     Excellent, minus the work part for the reasons above.

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Evolution for this soul happens as he progressively begins to realize the nature of his patterns- and how they result in a stagnate retreat into himself. He can cultivate a willingness to objectively listen to others, and give according to what they need, as he begins to realize that he in fact IS powerful and can actually do meaningful work because of his power. This is indicated by Venus squaring the nodes- integrated through the south node which is ruled by Pluto in Virgo in the second house. His work, which is sexual and powerful in nature, will naturally involve creating relationships with others (Venus inconjunct Pluto Uranus).

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     Yes, but again his 'work' is not of a sexual nature. What we have here is a Soul that needs to deepen itself in the types of work that it does in order to refect his evolutionary capacities, and his need to be of service to others in a meaningful way. Not just working to work, but meaningful work that symbolizes who is deeply is. This is a Soul who has been asking why for a very long time, a Soul that does have a natural psychological knowledge that has been gained through the hard knocks of life itself: S.Node in Scorpio relative to Pluto/Uranus conjunction, the inconjuction back to Venus is Aquarius. N.Node in Taurus in the 11th. All of these symbols correlate to traumas in all kinds of ways. It is the nature of these traumas that has caused him to ask why. So the real transition here, the evolutionary challenge, his next step, is to actualize a work of a psychological nature in which he can actively help others in this way. This, in turn, would create a dynamic in which is would be forced to listen to all the different realities of such people. In turn, this would cause him to seek out solutions for others that reflect their individual realities instead of giving to others what he thinks then need from the compressed well of his 2nd House Pluto/Uranus.

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His work ultimately serves as a gateway for him to let go of himself and actually listen to what other people want on account of realizing that he has everything that he needs within, and is therefore capable of giving of him self according to what others want (resolving Venus via the south node and it's ruler).

This leads to more conscious relationships with others who are at the same or close evolutionary stage. Together with others, he can learn how to listen to and authentically support one another, and increasingly find that there is community and other people out there that are just like him.

This soul then develops an image of himself as being a valuable member of social change and evolution on this planet (taurus nn in 11th) through the equal, authentic relationships he is creating (Venus Aquarius in 7th), and the empowerment and healing he experiences through those relationships. PPP is then enacted as the ability to let go of him self and merging with others (Pisces in the 8th). This fulfills the evolutionary intentions of this life as it implies that he no longer needs to prove and constantly work to assert his self worth/power.

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     Excellent

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Father and Children.
IF this soul has children (I can easily see that he wouldn't on account of children initially being viewed as a distraction from himself- and beings that will dethrone him so to speak), then his relationship with them would be an opportunity to learn how to let go of himself. His children too would naturally be seeking to establish a sense of inner empowerment and feelings of specialness. His role would ultimately to encourage authentic self-exploration and constant encouragement for the worth and value of his children. Otherwise, his children could grow up deeply resentful of their father.

Based on unresolved sexual trauma- oriented around his sense of specialness, there may have been some sexual abuse early in this life. His father may have been a very powerful and manipulative soul. One who was emotionally unavailable, and manipulated his child as a means to gain a sense of inner empowerment. Rebelling from the trauma of his father would be a very important part of this soul's journey.

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     No, not at all. The Father would have treated him, and his other offspring, very specially and loved them to death. The actual issue is the evolutionary condition of the father which in below, consensus, where this Soul is at. And, therefore, not a father who could give him the actual feedback that he needed in order to evolve in the ways that he needs. This is intentional on the part of this Soul because this Soul, in the end, where learn about the nature of his individuality by WHAT HE IS NOT. Thus setting up realities of contrast and comparison through which he can learn about his individuality in this way.

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All I really can say is that, if I was giving this soul a reading, I'd come into it knowing that father was very important. I'd want to hear about who his father was, what his father's sexual behavior was like, and if there was any abuse. I would check in to see how aware this soul is of how similar he is to his own father. I would help him see that in essence he is liberating from his own dissociation, unavailability, narcissism, paranoia etc"¦

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     There would be no abuse by his father. The father, again, is just at another level of evolution. The father loved his for alls he is worth and  would, indeed, support any life decisions this Soul made for itself, whether he understood those decisions or not. And, because of this, this Soul would make every effort to understand the individuality of his own children, and try, as best he could, to give them exactly what they needed.

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Question: Can you help me go deeper into the nature of the inconjunct- especially as it relates to prior life trauma (inconjunct south node ruler and Uranus), and a current life strategy (ruler of nn)?

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     Try to work with this more yourself given what I have written today in response to your analysis. And when you do work with the archetypes of this inconjunction: adjustments that need to be made that are born of crisis.

I don't feel I fully grasp the underlying nature of the inconjunct.

Thank you for guiding me Rad.

  Ari. You are doing good work. Just keep going and allow yourself to learn by way of the feedback given.

  Rad

Hi Rad, thanks for your really helpful feedback. I've re-approached some aspects of the interpretation according to your feedback.

QuoteHe has naturally gravitated to any role that correlated with his survival needs, or the needs of those that he has loved and held dear. This would have also included groupings of people living together in community: N.Node in the 11th, ruler Venus in Aquarius in the 7th, inconjuncting his Pluto/Uranus in Virgo in the 2nd. With the S.Node in Scorpio in the 5th he would have had roles of leadership in such communities and would have felt the deep inner need to help the communities sustain themselves, to survive by whatever means available. He would have fought to his own death in defense of these communities, and those that he loved.

Got it. The south node in Scorpio in the 5th correlates to a past in which he has self actualized by way of penetrating to the core of a special purpose. Pluto in Virgo in second as ruler of the sn, and sextile the south node means this special purpose was enacted and qualified by improving his capacity to survive/find his inner resourcefulness. Just that alone indicates that this special purpose was enacted from WITHIN the soul's innate ability to perform and achieve what it knows it was here to do.

Pluto in Virgo correlates to the psychological experience of lack, when it comes to not feeling oneself to be good enough to do the work one is meant to do. With the sextile to the south node, the awareness of this is clearly indicated- and the capacity to self actualize via a devotion and dedication to his work is indicated as well. We see that it has been important for this soul to be self sufficient and self reliant in order to do the best that he can possibly do. This ultimately impacting on his image (sn), and the adoration/respect he gains from other people (in scorio in the 5th).

What was the nature of his sense of special purpose, and for whom/what was this purpose?
Pluto is conjunct Uranus indicating he this soul has recently (new phase?) established core values that embrace the ideal of sharing and community. Personal survival for this soul is linked to community, to living in a way that works better for everyone. At this evolutionary state this soul has attracted traumatic experiences that relate to the loss of his community and the way they lived together etc. This has had the intended effect of pushing him into a more radicalized state of conscious rebellion from the status quo (cusp of second stage individuated).

Venus squares the nodes, having last formed a conjunction to the south node. This Venus is the ruler of the nn in Taurus in the 11th and is also inconjunct the Pluto Uranus conjunction. So venus very very much reveals the nature of the role this soul has served, how it was played, and what happened. Venus correlates to his inner relationship to himself, and from that the kinds of relationship dynamics he has attracted to himself. Venus in Aquarius in the 7th house means his soul has sought to hear itself through cultivating an objective consciousness, such that it can objectively internalize the feedback (7th house) it gets from others and liberate from ways of relating to himself and others that come from conditioned patterns, which itself is symbolic of repressed trauma. This means developing a core values that is about individuality- thus implying a psychology that includes and encourages other people's innate uniqueness.

First, I will explore the Venus inconjunction to Uranus and Pluto, then the square, then synthesize it all together.

Venus in Aquarius in the 7th inconjunct Pluto Uranus in Virgo in the second: There have been points of conflict and crisis between other people (venus in the 7th house- in particular the needs of his community, or groups of people he was associated with- aquarius, venus ruler of nn in 11th house) and his own need to do everything BY HIMSELF (because he feared it wouldn't get done otherwise- Virgo?)- thus his tendency for isolation and a deep withdraw into his own work (Virgo in the second house). Involving Pluto and Uranus here means the inconjunct intended to get him to BUDGE, and become aware of his obsession (pluto) for taking on the burden (virgo) of being the provider (second house) as well as his insistence on his own personal vision of how resources can be shared and used in a more evolved way (Uranus). The need to listen to the needs and visions of other people, as well as the need for him to feel heard by other people, has required him to adjust (inconjunct) to the subjective reality of other people by actually recognizing that he tends to overstep other people's needs by imposing his personal desire to be do everything himself (Virgo second inconjunct Aquarius 7th) the way he sees fit.

Venus square to the nodes: this implies that he over internalized the feedback he got from others as it related to how special, needed, and appreciated he was by his community (distorted venus in aquarius in 7th, as ruler of nn in 11th, through the lens of the square to sn in Scorpio int he 5th). Perhaps this hasn't lead to excommunication, but rather he himself has gotten frustrated and disempowered by how unseen and misunderstood he felt by other people- via the projections of other people. The problem however was that HE was also blind to the fact that he wasn't willing to adjust to other people's reality (the inconjunct). And so he became increasingly paranoid and distrustful of other people the more unlike himself they were. Therefore, this soul has attracted traumatic experiences of loosing partners, friends, and community in order to create an inner turmoil that would make him radically re-evaluate his relationship to relationships. This setting the stage for the current life venus square nodes- with a north node in the 11th house (lesson in thinking not only about himself).

In general, the square to the nodes, as well as the inconjunct would have lead to a deeply withdrawn pattern of doing everything himself and glorifying his own abilities to serve a special purpose for others. It seems the projections from others, as well as the violent loss of community has had the intended effect to make him re-evaluate what makes him special (integration of square through the sn)- in order to ultimately enter community with a more secure self esteem- thus enabling the capacity for intimacy, actual objectivity, reflective relationships and thus the ppp.

So now I see why you say he will get key support from those that are at a higher evolutionary state that will provide reflection to him about who he is. This is indicated by the Venus in Aquarius int he 7th squaring the sn in scorpio in the 5th. Objective feedback from others. Only those at a higher, at at least his current evolutionary state, are capable of doing that for him- as any other evolutionary state would not have the awareness to recognize his own psychology, what makes him who he is, And in fact, with the square to the sn, he is deeply needing to understand what actually makes him special. These people will actually help him see the hidden psychological dynamics at play in relationships, the way he projects a reality of not being loved and appreciated, and the way he pushes others away that do not comply with his own sense of duty and responsibility.

So clearly he has been involved in communities, or with groups of people in past lives, and has been learning how to appropriately share himself with others in a way that allows the space for others to be who they are- i.e. actually listening to the needs of others.

I also see now, that as a destiny, his service in this life is linked to assisting others grow beyond the limitations of their own inner fear and isolation. He can help others who are at a similar evolutionary junction to validate their unique nature and enter into relationships in a more authentic and balanced way.

QuoteThe very nature of these symbols, on a personal level, correlate to a deeply private and emotionally withheld individual. Who he has been in the performance of his roles on behalf of others is very different that who he has been in his private life, his personal space. The very last thing this individual would have done is to use his sexuality in any kind of role linked to his or others survival needs. His sexuality is a very private and secretive thing for him in terms of others knowing about it.

So one thing I still don't grasp, is what kind of roles did he play out? Meaning how would this have looked in past lives- how did he support himself, and thus in his social sphere?

 

QuoteThe Venus in Aquarius, relative to its square to the N.Node, Venus being in the 7th, has in fact correlated to other lives, and this one, in which key people have and will show up in his life for this very purpose. And these will be Souls who are actually more evolved than himself, or, at minimum, at exactly the same evolutionary gate that he is.

The only question I have about that, is how to do come to the conclusion that this correlates to OTHER LIVES, not just this one? Is it because the square implies that the lesson has been there before this life, however the soul has been resistant to it?

   

QuoteConversely, this necessary discrimination needs to weed out and rebel against any false evaluations and judgments about himself that are emanating from those who are lesser evolved: in the consensus

.

Got it, and both kinds of feedback- the kind he has to weed out, and the kind that actually provides objective perspective will be the catalyst.


     

QuoteNo, not at all. The Father would have treated him, and his other offspring, very specially and loved them to death. The actual issue is the evolutionary condition of the father which in below, consensus, where this Soul is at. And, therefore, not a father who could give him the actual feedback that he needed in order to evolve in the ways that he needs. This is intentional on the part of this Soul because this Soul, in the end, where learn about the nature of his individuality by WHAT HE IS NOT. Thus setting up realities of contrast and comparison through which he can learn about his individuality in this way.


     There would be no abuse by his father. The father, again, is just at another level of evolution. The father loved his for alls he is worth and  would, indeed, support any life decisions this Soul made for itself, whether he understood those decisions or not. And, because of this, this Soul would make every effort to understand the individuality of his own children, and try, as best he could, to give them exactly what they needed.

Question about father:
Do you say that his father is encouraging and supportive because the south node is in Scorpio in the 5th house sextile it's ruler?

It seems that the square of Venus to the south node is what indicates to you that the father would have been in a lower evolutionary state- thus implying the lack of the kind of feedback the soul needed.

Why can't we say that the father was in a higher evolutionary state, and there is a set up ultimately for the soul to receive the guidance and objective feedback of his father? Is that because such a case wouldn't set up the natural crisis as implied by the venus square?

If so, can we then say that this soul would have needed to rebel about his father, even though his father loved him, on account of not actually being understood, in order to weed out any false projections? Later in life, through the cultivation of more self awareness, this soul would be able to re-appreciate his father's love for him?

Thank you.

Hi Ari,

Quote from: ari moshe on Mar 08, 2010, 01:36 PM
Hi Rad, thanks for your really helpful feedback. I've re-approached some aspects of the interpretation according to your feedback.

QuoteHe has naturally gravitated to any role that correlated with his survival needs, or the needs of those that he has loved and held dear. This would have also included groupings of people living together in community: N.Node in the 11th, ruler Venus in Aquarius in the 7th, inconjuncting his Pluto/Uranus in Virgo in the 2nd. With the S.Node in Scorpio in the 5th he would have had roles of leadership in such communities and would have felt the deep inner need to help the communities sustain themselves, to survive by whatever means available. He would have fought to his own death in defense of these communities, and those that he loved.

Got it. The south node in Scorpio in the 5th correlates to a past in which he has self actualized by way of penetrating to the core of a special purpose. Pluto in Virgo in second as ruler of the sn, and sextile the south node means this special purpose was enacted and qualified by improving his capacity to survive/find his inner resourcefulness. Just that alone indicates that this special purpose was enacted from WITHIN the soul's innate ability to perform and achieve what it knows it was here to do.

Pluto in Virgo correlates to the psychological experience of lack, when it comes to not feeling oneself to be good enough to do the work one is meant to do. With the sextile to the south node, the awareness of this is clearly indicated- and the capacity to self actualize via a devotion and dedication to his work is indicated as well. We see that it has been important for this soul to be self sufficient and self reliant in order to do the best that he can possibly do. This ultimately impacting on his image (sn), and the adoration/respect he gains from other people (in scorio in the 5th).

What was the nature of his sense of special purpose, and for whom/what was this purpose?
Pluto is conjunct Uranus indicating he this soul has recently (new phase?)


Yes, new phase ..........


established core values that embrace the ideal of sharing and community. Personal survival for this soul is linked to community, to living in a way that works better for everyone. At this evolutionary state this soul has attracted traumatic experiences that relate to the loss of his community and the way they lived together etc. This has had the intended effect of pushing him into a more radicalized state of conscious rebellion from the status quo (cusp of second stage individuated).

Venus squares the nodes, having last formed a conjunction to the south node. This Venus is the ruler of the nn in Taurus in the 11th and is also inconjunct the Pluto Uranus conjunction. So venus very very much reveals the nature of the role this soul has served, how it was played, and what happened. Venus correlates to his inner relationship to himself, and from that the kinds of relationship dynamics he has attracted to himself. Venus in Aquarius in the 7th house means his soul has sought to hear itself through cultivating an objective consciousness, such that it can objectively internalize the feedback (7th house) it gets from others and liberate from ways of relating to himself and others that come from conditioned patterns, which itself is symbolic of repressed trauma. This means developing a core values that is about individuality- thus implying a psychology that includes and encourages other people's innate uniqueness.

First, I will explore the Venus inconjunction to Uranus and Pluto, then the square, then synthesize it all together.

Venus in Aquarius in the 7th inconjunct Pluto Uranus in Virgo in the second: There have been points of conflict and crisis between other people (venus in the 7th house- in particular the needs of his community, or groups of people he was associated with- aquarius, venus ruler of nn in 11th house) and his own need to do everything BY HIMSELF (because he feared it wouldn't get done otherwise- Virgo?)- thus his tendency for isolation and a deep withdraw into his own work (Virgo in the second house).


This is true, but also because he considered within himself that he could always do whatever needed to done BETTER than anyone else. Thus, the ongoing lessons of letting others do whatever they need to do, for themselves, as well as within the context of their own lives and the larger functions of the groups needs, as best they can even if it not 'perfect' according to him. Ongoing lessons  of learning how to others realities exist for them, and instead of being critical of them from the vantage point of his own reality, to work with others realities as they exist for them, and then to help them improve in whatever ways from within those realities. This will then create an attitude within others of wanting to work with him, versus him creating defensive reactions in others by criticizing them from limited well of just his own reality.


Involving Pluto and Uranus here means the inconjunct intended to get him to BUDGE, and become aware of his obsession (pluto) for taking on the burden (virgo) of being the provider (second house) as well as his insistence on his own personal vision of how resources can be shared and used in a more evolved way (Uranus). The need to listen to the needs and visions of other people, as well as the need for him to feel heard by other people, has required him to adjust (inconjunct) to the subjective reality of other people by actually recognizing that he tends to overstep other people's needs by imposing his personal desire to be do everything himself (Virgo second inconjunct Aquarius 7th) the way he sees fit.

Excellent


Venus square to the nodes: this implies that he over internalized the feedback he got from others as it related to how special, needed, and appreciated he was by his community (distorted venus in aquarius in 7th, as ruler of nn in 11th, through the lens of the square to sn in Scorpio int he 5th). Perhaps this hasn't lead to excommunication, but rather he himself has gotten frustrated and disempowered by how unseen and misunderstood he felt by other people- via the projections of other people. The problem however was that HE was also blind to the fact that he wasn't willing to adjust to other people's reality (the inconjunct). And so he became increasingly paranoid and distrustful of other people the more unlike himself they were. Therefore, this soul has attracted traumatic experiences of loosing partners, friends, and community in order to create an inner turmoil that would make him radically re-evaluate his relationship to relationships. This setting the stage for the current life venus square nodes- with a north node in the 11th house (lesson in thinking not only about himself).


Excellent


In general, the square to the nodes, as well as the inconjunct would have lead to a deeply withdrawn pattern of doing everything himself and glorifying his own abilities to serve a special purpose for others. It seems the projections from others, as well as the violent loss of community has had the intended effect to make him re-evaluate what makes him special (integration of square through the sn)- in order to ultimately enter community with a more secure self esteem- thus enabling the capacity for intimacy, actual objectivity, reflective relationships and thus the ppp.

Excellent

So now I see why you say he will get key support from those that are at a higher evolutionary state that will provide reflection to him about who he is. This is indicated by the Venus in Aquarius int he 7th squaring the sn in scorpio in the 5th. Objective feedback from others. Only those at a higher, at at least his current evolutionary state, are capable of doing that for him- as any other evolutionary state would not have the awareness to recognize his own psychology, what makes him who he is, And in fact, with the square to the sn, he is deeply needing to understand what actually makes him special. These people will actually help him see the hidden psychological dynamics at play in relationships, the way he projects a reality of not being loved and appreciated, and the way he pushes others away that do not comply with his own sense of duty and responsibility.


Yes ........ excellent


So clearly he has been involved in communities, or with groups of people in past lives, and has been learning how to appropriately share himself with others in a way that allows the space for others to be who they are- i.e. actually listening to the needs of others.

I also see now, that as a destiny, his service in this life is linked to assisting others grow beyond the limitations of their own inner fear and isolation. He can help others who are at a similar evolutionary junction to validate their unique nature and enter into relationships in a more authentic and balanced way.


Yes..................

QuoteThe very nature of these symbols, on a personal level, correlate to a deeply private and emotionally withheld individual. Who he has been in the performance of his roles on behalf of others is very different that who he has been in his private life, his personal space. The very last thing this individual would have done is to use his sexuality in any kind of role linked to his or others survival needs. His sexuality is a very private and secretive thing for him in terms of others knowing about it.

So one thing I still don't grasp, is what kind of roles did he play out? Meaning how would this have looked in past lives- how did he support himself, and thus in his social sphere?


It simply means that he was exceptional in living and playing out the external roles that he needed to play out on the behalf of others and, while doing so, affecting a persona that was utterly self contained and almost unapproachable. He played out any role that he needed to play out for the survival needs of his group and family which is how he and others where sustained. This paradigm can also include lifetimes in which he utterly retreated, rebelled, against almost any interaction with others. Which would then mean retreating into isolated environments in which he was living alone, and being utterly self reliant in this way, using the resources of the land itself as a means of personal survival.



 

QuoteThe Venus in Aquarius, relative to its square to the N.Node, Venus being in the 7th, has in fact correlated to other lives, and this one, in which key people have and will show up in his life for this very purpose. And these will be Souls who are actually more evolved than himself, or, at minimum, at exactly the same evolutionary gate that he is.

The only question I have about that, is how to do come to the conclusion that this correlates to OTHER LIVES, not just this one? Is it because the square implies that the lesson has been there before this life, however the soul has been resistant to it?


Yes, the square from Venus to his Nodes, the inconjuction to Pluto as well as Uranus.



   

QuoteConversely, this necessary discrimination needs to weed out and rebel against any false evaluations and judgments about himself that are emanating from those who are lesser evolved: in the consensus

.

Got it, and both kinds of feedback- the kind he has to weed out, and the kind that actually provides objective perspective will be the catalyst.


     

QuoteNo, not at all. The Father would have treated him, and his other offspring, very specially and loved them to death. The actual issue is the evolutionary condition of the father which in below, consensus, where this Soul is at. And, therefore, not a father who could give him the actual feedback that he needed in order to evolve in the ways that he needs. This is intentional on the part of this Soul because this Soul, in the end, where learn about the nature of his individuality by WHAT HE IS NOT. Thus setting up realities of contrast and comparison through which he can learn about his individuality in this way.


     There would be no abuse by his father. The father, again, is just at another level of evolution. The father loved his for alls he is worth and  would, indeed, support any life decisions this Soul made for itself, whether he understood those decisions or not. And, because of this, this Soul would make every effort to understand the individuality of his own children, and try, as best he could, to give them exactly what they needed.

Question about father:
Do you say that his father is encouraging and supportive because the south node is in Scorpio in the 5th house sextile it's ruler?

Yes...........

It seems that the square of Venus to the south node is what indicates to you that the father would have been in a lower evolutionary state- thus implying the lack of the kind of feedback the soul needed.

Its because of his Pluto/Uranus being in the 2nd House, his N.Node being in Taurus in the 11th, relative to the S.Node in the 5th and it's sextile  back to that Pluto/Uranus. This all means it must happen, his ongoing evolutionary intentions, THROUGH HIS ON EFFORTS. Thus, his Soul creates necessary realities that generate a counter-point awareness of 'not this, not that'. And this this includes the reality of the father and the values that the father has that constitutes the very meaning for life.


Why can't we say that the father was in a higher evolutionary state, and there is a set up ultimately for the soul to receive the guidance and objective feedback of his father? Is that because such a case wouldn't set up the natural crisis as implied by the venus square?


Yes, and because of the above .................


If so, can we then say that this soul would have needed to rebel about his father, even though his father loved him, on account of not actually being understood, in order to weed out any false projections? Later in life, through the cultivation of more self awareness, this soul would be able to re-appreciate his father's love for him?

He would have quietly 'rebelled' against the father by simply living his own life, defining his own values, and thus what constituted his real meaning for life. There would be no need for some kind of active rebellion in the sense of getting in the fathers face, so to speak. The father would accept whatever individual decisions his son needed to make for his own life. As a result, there will be an intense and bonding love between one another for the whole life.

Thank you.

Really excellent work Ari !!

Bravo, Rad

Hi Rad,

Any chance you'd be willing to point out what I got wrong in my post.  It would help me learn.

Peace,
Ellen

Quote from: Rad on Mar 07, 2010, 10:09 AM


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     No, not at all. The Father would have treated him, and his other offspring, very specially and loved them to death. The actual issue is the evolutionary condition of the father which in below, consensus, where this Soul is at. And, therefore, not a father who could give him the actual feedback that he needed in order to evolve in the ways that he needs. This is intentional on the part of this Soul because this Soul, in the end, where learn about the nature of his individuality by WHAT HE IS NOT. Thus setting up realities of contrast and comparison through which he can learn about his individuality in this way.

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Hi Rad,

I am just wondering how you can determine from the chart that the father's evolutionary condition was consensus/different from the son's.

Ellen

Hi Ellen,

QuoteI am just wondering how you can determine from the chart that the father's evolutionary condition was consensus/different from the son's.

Rad just answered that- see the end of his last response to me in reply 431.

Quote from: ari moshe on Mar 09, 2010, 06:13 PM
Hi Ellen,

QuoteI am just wondering how you can determine from the chart that the father's evolutionary condition was consensus/different from the son's.

Rad just answered that- see the end of his last response to me in reply 431.

Hi Ari,
Thanks.  But I guess I am just not getting it...

HI Ellen,

"Any chance you'd be willing to point out what I got wrong in my post.  It would help me learn."

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There was nothing wrong in your post. It was by no means complete in terms of the totality of the paradigm but what you did present was accurate enough.

Rad

Quote from: Ellen on Mar 10, 2010, 04:44 AM

Quote from: ari moshe on Mar 09, 2010, 06:13 PM
Hi Ellen,

QuoteI am just wondering how you can determine from the chart that the father's evolutionary condition was consensus/different from the son's.

Rad just answered that- see the end of his last response to me in reply 431.

Hi Ari,
Thanks.  But I guess I am just not getting it...

Hi Ari & Rad,

My question re: determining the evolutionary state of the parent is essentially this: Am I correct in understanding that once you know the evolutionary state of the person whose chart you are looking at, you can then infer the evolutionary state of the parent, and perhaps also other people in the person's life?  I am asking this because I have the observation/correlation "rule" in my head - and if I'm correct in my understanding, then this seems to me that it would be an exception to the rule, or at least suggest that it only applies to the "client" - and then from there you can determine everything else.

Hope this makes sense.

Ellen

Hi Ellen,

I am not sure what 'rule' you are refering to relative to the evolutionary state of whom anyone attracts into their life. Each case is it's own case. All Souls have their own context, and their own evolutionary intentions. In combination this will correlate to the types of Souls they attract into their life and why. IN general, most Souls do gravitate to others that reflect their own evolutionary state because of the underlying issue of psychological and emotional security: the need to be self consistent in order to feel secure. Also, generally, our children tend to either be in our own evolutionary state, or just beyond. But that is a general issue, not an absolute.

Rad

just a check in.  planning to post this week.
it's great to see all this learning and participation.
blessings,
bradley

Ok, so we will start with a new paradigm. We will make this the chart of a white male, born into upper middle economic conditions, no specific religious conditioning, born in Canada, who is in the last stages of the 1st Stage Individuated evolutionary condition, who has Pluto in Virgo conjunct Uransu in the 2nd House, S.Node is in Scorpio in the 5th House, N.Node in Taurus in the 11th, and it's ruler Venus in Aqaurius in the 7th, and it's squaring the Nodes. Additionally, that Venus is inconjunct the natal Uranus.

Let's have a go at it !

This man has come into this lifetime from a series of lives with the evolutionary intention of learning self sufficiency AND has also begun to act on the evolutionary impulse to evolve by merging with greater sources outside of himself(nn ruler square nodes=ppp activation).  

   Based on his evolutionary stage we know he is moving farther away from the mainstream values as defined by the consensus Canadian culture of birth.  He has actually been evolving as an individual and moving away from staying in a conformity lifestyle.  Internally he has been casting off and liberating from all the cultural values that he was taught that no longer resonate with the core values  he is realizing that he holds as an individual(uranus waxing conjuct pluto 2nd relative to late 1st individuated evolutionary stage).  He is naturally in a perpetual state of self analysis and self examination relative to his own ability to fill the roles and duties he is responsible for. (pluto 2nd virgo).  Within this self analysis, he will repeated encounter, in cyclic crises, a breakdown of the "why" he is "failing" to be perfect regarding his own abilities to accomplish what is required of his role in a given group at any given time.  This self implosion has the progressive evolutionary potential of self realization of the "true measure" of success-that is based on individual values of his capacity of bring forth what he has to offer for the betterment of himself and the group.

   He, in the past, has intensely focused upon his own self expression and purpose while sustaining any particular position/role in which he had taken on.(scorpio s.n. relative to pluto virgo 2nd)  How he went about finding out the "bottom line" of what he was called to do was by turning inward into the core of who he was realizing he is/was becoming. (pluto as ruler of s.n).  This penetrating inward focus of his own attention and self analysis was the way in which he was able to realize what his own values were, especially relative to roles individuals play in groups. (all of the above relative to activated n.n via n.n. ruler square)  And so, his progressive journey thru the first stage of the the individuated evolutionary state has a "trademark" of initiating experiences that allowed new self awarenesses of what values(at any moment) no longer resonated with the essence who he is/where he stands-thus learning to continue to shed away and liberate from the canadian cultural values that do not align with what he knows to be inner truth.
   
       He had realized at a point in time that he needed to be in groups of like minded/shared values peoples.  This was essential because there was no other way for him to fulfill his destiny and purpose of taking on an essential role which was worthwhile and allowed his emerging and evolving individual self expression.  He began to open up to many different people, points of view and perspectives which allowed for these new group experiences to manifest.  (ruler n.n. aquarius 7th-n.n. taurus 11th)  By skipping ahead to initiate these types of experiences, he faced the conflict of "loosing touch with his own special role within the group. (n.n ruler square to nodes) This lifetime it will be essential to integrate the experience of "sharing his talents" in a way that he knows is true to his own evolving purpose. (skipped step venus aquarius 7th relative to applying to his south node in scorpio 5th, n.n 11th, pluto virgo 2nd relative to ppp)  
   
       Relative to his own past evolution being characterized by the experience of liberation as his own personal inner experience(pluto uranus conjuct 2nd), the experience of relating to himself via a multitude of various perspectives and opinions(n.n. venus in auquarius 7th)  sets the stage for the relationship crises he has repeated experienced in his life.( inconjuct uranus to venus).  He is obviously a man who is more comfortable being in control of his experiences(s.n 5th scorpio/pluto 2nd).  And so he would naturally dominate his personal relationships-especially regarding what is expected of him.  Also, he would tend to be detached in his listening to partners and others(venus aquarius 7th).  His personal gravitation toward his own self expression, his own sexuality, his own inner security has built up power imbalances in past relationships-basically that he is withholding/not sharing himself in relationships-both with partners and in relationships within groups he has belongs to.(signature dynamic of venus inconjunct uranus-pluto)  Because he had been so self identified with his own will power as the means to do the tasks he saw himself called to do, and because he gravitated to taking care of things by himself, and because he would often come off as detached in his engagement with partners and relationships, we can expect series of past relationships in which at some point he had to come face to face with the perspective and opinion of the other thru intense confrontations of the ultimate cause and affect of his actions within these relationships. (ppp 8th pisces-nn. venus 7th)  
   
        So, basically, at any "karmic juncture" in which his own unconscious security had lead to him retreating comfortably into his own inner world, a confrontation would have been required to catalyze the momentum out of his man-cave and share his energy and talents with those around him.  He would have, via a friend, foe, or partner(venus 7th aquarius) been given "feedback" that would have allowed him to objectively see how he was not actually living out his inner values of service to his community/peoples(nn 11 taurus relative to pluto/uranus virgo 2nd).  On an intimate level, this feedback/confrontation would have been his partner telling him how not present he was being with his self focus being so strong(not in such nice words either).  Or, because the other would repeatedly have the experience of their needs not being met, they would have left the relationship for a partner that would actually engage with them emotionally and sexually.  In this case, he has also past experience of "abandonment"  and betrayal which would have been the symbolic crisis to force him to come out of himself and learn to merge with another.  
   So the confrontations that catalyzed his evolution brought him face to face with the ultimate truths of the life he was living(ppp 8th-pisces) or not living.  Again, as he is evolving and awakening to his calling, it is most important that his response to the feedback he is hearing is not a decision based on others opinions.  He must learn to bring forth a true and authentic expression of himself to share with his community.(sn 5th scorpio-applying square by venus skipped step).  
   
        Would it be possible to see a distortion by witnessing  his own confusion about sharing his self/expressing himself(8th ppp pisces) relative to the newness of all these perspectives creating inner fragmentation of his evolving/transforming core?

 
Rad-
I have only partly read some of the post so far.  I reread pluto 2nd, scanned pluto 6th, and did some quick references to other related chapters.
I am grateful of any advice and feedback you have regarding the continued development.  
Also, I realize I could simply read the rest of everything posted on this and make sure to incorporate all that I have not---this would be my plan unless you have other advice.
Also, to read over all relevant chapters to ensure to include all relevant dynamics.

Thank you,
Blessings,
Bradley

HI Bradley,

       " Would it be possible to see a distortion by witnessing  his own confusion about sharing his self/expressing himself(8th ppp pisces) relative to the newness of all these perspectives creating inner fragmentation of his evolving/transforming core?"

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Yes...............

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Rad-
I have only partly read some of the post so far.  I reread pluto 2nd, scanned pluto 6th, and did some quick references to other related chapters.
I am grateful of any advice and feedback you have regarding the continued development. 
Also, I realize I could simply read the rest of everything posted on this and make sure to incorporate all that I have not---this would be my plan unless you have other advice.
Also, to read over all relevant chapters to ensure to include all relevant dynamics.

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So far you have done a good job. I would recommend that you read what others have written as well. In never hurts to bring in other perspectives and understandings as long as they are accurate. And, yes, to read over all relevant chapters ........... good job Bradley.....

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Rad