Old EA Message Board

Ari,

Quote from: ari moshe on Dec 24, 2009, 04:17 PM
Hey Rad,
Could you explain the rational for why a planet squaring the nodes finds integration through the node to which it forms a waxing square?

Is it because the waxing square represents a need to consciously ACT in order to find integration?

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Because that is the Node that last formed a conjunction to planet squaring it. The mean motion of the Nodes is RETROGRADE. Thus, the planet that is forming a square to the Node that last formed a conjunction to it is APPLYING to that Node.

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Rad

Hi Ari, Linda, Bradley, Lucius or anyone else that wants to join our little group,

Let me know if you guys want to start a new practice chart and if you want to begin to add a another layer to it ... i.e. Pluto and Nodes and ruling planets in signs ?

Rad

yes! im ready for another layer

are you saying the rational is that integration has to happen via the node it's applying to because that's the next node in line so to speak? Meaning, if I'm moving through a circle and i'm going to move over two points- clearly the first point that i move over is the one im going to have to address first. do i understand this correctly?

Quote from: Rad on Dec 30, 2009, 11:07 AM
Hi Ari, Linda, Bradley, Lucius or anyone else that wants to join our little group,

Let me know if you guys want to start a new practice chart and if you want to begin to add a another layer to it ... i.e. Pluto and Nodes and ruling planets in signs ?

Rad

Hi Rad and students,

Thanks for your tutoring and patience in regard to my "beginner" status.  I have just received Segment One of the School's EA Course and am absorbing it now.

I'm ready to continue.  I could probably do with more practice without the signs, but "jumping in the deep end" is not a bad idea either. 

I had not presented an indepth examination of the PPP, 8th and 9th, but just touched upon these.  I will expand on these throughout the next layer of this practice chart.

Much appreciation toward our group!

Rad,
That sounds great.
I'll still be posting my addition w/ppp to the previous.
Of course, I still had in my head to ask if there was anything else that you know of this assignment that we did not yet show an in depth understanding of.

Thanks,
b

Continuing with Pluto in forth:  Integration of the Pluto Polarity Point.

In asking the question, "What constituted inner emotional security in this soul's past?" while keeping in mind that the skipped steps square of south node ruler to the nodal axis, we can know that experiences that fall within the realm of the "˜10th house' would be part of what brought a growing sense of inner security in their karmic past.
   In other words, part of what has brought inner emotional security into their life(past lives and present) has been experiences where s/he was learning to establish him/her self in the community/culture-to establish her/himself as an individual and with a personal authority.  In their quest to constantly define and redefine(transform) the essential definition of who they were, they were drawn into metamorphic relationships that taught them how to use their own power in the outer culture/community.  By being close with specific individuals for specific periods of time, they were learning via osmosis by being in the other's lifestyle.  This "˜other' could have been a person or a body of knowledge-in either case they were learning to define for his/herself, through these experiences, their own definition of individual established power and authority in culture/community.
   In early childhood, we can expect to see this pattern of the pluto polarity point being active show up by learning of specific family from their youth which she/he learned from the behavior they modeled; behaviour which taught how they achieved a successful "˜place in the world'.  This "˜family member', which could have been one of the parents, caretaker, grandparent, aunt, uncle, family friend, etc.  The common pattern here is that someone was modeling "˜ways to make it' in the world that internally this soul was drawn to/chose to experience for evolutionary nessecity.  As a result of a closer relationship with this family member, they continued to transform their self definitions thru the learning experiences therein.  This early childhood pattern has most likely been repeating in the past few lifetimes.  We need exact degree aspects to discuss this point further. 
   What we can say about the above activation of the ppp is that these experiences would have simultaneously carried the same dynamics discussed previously-about having "˜displaced emotions' from childhood and youth experiences because in his/her experience of reality, different emotional needs were going unmet and or unnoticed.
   Another point here is that it is possible that the family member that he/she was in close relationship was modeling abusive use of self power.  This sets up the confrontation met when he/she reaches the point/age where their re-defining of who they are awakes the realization that this person and their actions do not resonate at a core level with who they are.  The confrontation would symbolized a cataclysmic evolutionary juncture.  For this person to have reached a point of development to feel internally secure enough to make a choice/values call which affects their immediate "˜place in the world', via the confrontation and resulting removal of existing relationship/or conditions their in, to have reached this level of security is a big deal-it shows growth in their own emotional security to come forth with their own authority in this way-demonstrating their own power and how they would use it. 
   On the flip side of this possibility is that he/she, at a certain karmic juncture, had not yet felt secure enough in the definition of who they are to exercise their own personal power in their world.   The resulting confrontation with this "˜teacher' figure/family member would be a challenging experience because of the nature of the forced removal of the relationship.
   We can stretch this by using an example of relationship to a body of knowledge.  For example, let's say that in early childhood and youth, s/he has a dominating parent.  The parent controls what they can and can not do a lot. (one possibility of 4th pluto) As s/he grows up, s/he sees how their parent achieves power and security for the family by being disciplined and knowing how to "˜play the game"˜ of reality.  This parent is driven by a specific religion which teaches the ways in which to "˜play the game'.  Then, at a certain age, s/he finds a book that teaches another spiritual path to life.  The book and knowledge must be hidden because the parent's disapproval.  I will not go on with this example here, but I use it to demonstrate how we see all these dynamics begin to emerge.  In this example, notice the dynamics surrounding his/her inner emotional security(pluto 4th) and their definition of their own values(sn. ruler inconjunct pluto) and the specific life philosophy/teaching/religion/spirituality in which they choose(nn ruler inconjunct pluto).  In both cases, we can begin to see the dynamics that lead into the evolutionary necessary crises that they have been going thru.   
   Based on all the above and previous post, what else can we say about the types of relationships that s/he forms.  The intense unions s/he forms is with others who have also gone thru not only significant transformations of how they define their selves; also have had self metamorphosis via powerful emotional/spiritual confrontations around people in their life who, like our soul example, have also experienced both issues surrounding both 4th house and 10th house affairs.  Their relationships will reflect that what the "˜other' has learned thru saturation into their life experiences will reflect an approach to life that contains teachings of how to use individual power and establish personal authority in the world.
   Moving on, from the past karmic point of view, we can shed some more light on the internal struggle of this person.  How do they integrate their own definition of who they are at a core level while going thru a metamorphosis via what they are learning by being submerged in another's life philosophy/path?  Well, the answer is through the north node, with it's ruler facilitating this.  So, having said this: A-what is going to be thier instinctual action and B-what will be the integrating path? 
First, in the case of A, they are torn between simply "˜pulling their own weight' and going back to learning thru their experience of sharing the process.  So, we would see them doing both all the time.(or at least know at all times both of these desires exist)  Now, in the case of B-what to do, or "what, should we as counselors suggest as a path to walk?"  we should keep in mind from Pluto book One, Jeffery Wolf Green writes: "When Pluto applies to the north node, then the polarity point of Pluto and  the south node with its planetary ruler, must be integrated thru the north node with its ruling planet facilitating the process."  In this case, it is the ruler of the south node applying to the north node.  Yet, basically, the past karma can only a resolved, meaning that s/he will achieve inner emotional security by this soul sharing on deep levels because they are learning from this about how they define their self, their values, their personal resources-all this needs to be shared by putting it in context of over-arching life perspective/philosophy/spiritual teaching.  It is through this experience that s/he will evolve into both being emotionally secure with and learning to establish their self as an individual as part of society and use their power there-in.
   Going back to the repeated past karmic experience of being thrown back upon their self, their establishing and using their own power out in the world can be added to the list of catalysts that triggered these past life crises.  I will not restate all the other possible dynamics of this particular forth house pluto  that also could have led to the crises, but wanted to acknowledge that there are certainly evolutionary catylists that stem from both, the archetype of pluto's house(4th) and polarity point (10).

   So, we have established that this soul has already made efforts to establish their self out in the world.  We see that how they define this personal use of power is transforming thru time.  At this evolutionary stage, it is important for them to continue to learn from a spiritual teaching, via a submergion in this path, to success in achieving the self definition of their own values that will lead to the inner emotional security that will truely support them in establishing who they are becoming and their new found place in community/society.


Thanks for taking the time to read.  All feedback is welcome.
And, Rad, my question from my previous post-have we specifically missed an important dynamic of this signature, or any noticeable subtle interpretation variation therein which would be worth noting?

Ari,

Quote from: ari moshe on Dec 30, 2009, 11:14 AM
yes! im ready for another layer

are you saying the rational is that integration has to happen via the node it's applying to because that's the next node in line so to speak? Meaning, if I'm moving through a circle and i'm going to move over two points- clearly the first point that i move over is the one im going to have to address first. do i understand this correctly?

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Yes ...............................

Rad

Hi Bradley,

Very, very good work. The only two things that I feel we have not discussed, mentioned, analyzed, to the point that it should have been is the nature and affects of prior life traumas. Typically, in the paradigm that we have been working with , such a Soul will literally be born with PTSD from birth. And when a Soul is born like that it is very, very important to understand the affects of the PTSD on the current life behavior and why, and how that, of itself, can continue to undermine or impede the ongoing evolution of the Soul. And within such a discussion of how to work with not only this Soul, but any Soul, that is born with unresolved traumas that cause the PTSD at birth. Beyond this all who have participated in working with this paradigm have done remarkably well.
  The other thing is the issue of this Soul's sexuality. When we have the Nodal Axis in the 2nd/ 8th the issue of sexuality is a very powerful issue. In the paradigm with have been working with, given the 4th House Pluto, the ruler of the S.Node squaring both Nodes, this issue of sexuality becomes even more important to understand especially given the issue of a recent gender switch: 4th House Pluto.

Rad

Rad,
How common would we see, keeping in mind gender switch(4th pluto) and the 2nd/8th nodes both active in past lives, past and present same sex sexual experiences?
Besides the common, if not repressed, feeling of being a woman in a man's body or visa versa, would this be a common signature of trans-gender and or sex changes and/or gender identity switching?
Keeping in mind the nodal rulers here(11th and 9th) are we also to see these sexual experiences, both with self and others, to be a soul searching to define what they value and identify with at core levels in terms of their own sexuality?

thanks,
bradley

Bradley,

Quote from: Bradley J on Jan 04, 2010, 11:56 AM
Rad,
How common would we see, keeping in mind gender switch(4th pluto) and the 2nd/8th nodes both active in past lives, past and present same sex sexual experiences?

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   In this signature, relative to the Soul's evolutionary stage, there would be an intense rebellion, S.Node ruler in the 11th, against the social/ societal consensus of how traditional gender is defined: the 10 th House Pluto polarity. This kind of Soul would know WHAT THEY ARE NOT. And that means not a traditional male or female. The 11th House ruler of the S.Node would want to naturally experiment with 'different' forms and ways of being sexual. Because of the recent gender switch there would be a natural attraction to the gender they have just come from whether it was male or female. As a result, it would be 'common' in this signature for the Soul to have bisexual inclinations and desires. Bisexuality, of itself, is and 11th House, Uranus, and Aquarius archetype.
   Within this dynamic the Soul has had, and will have, an unpredictable sexual need or rhythm. This is seen via the S.Node ruler being in the 11th. Thus cycles of intense need, N.Node in the 8th, cycles of no need because the sexual energy will have seemed to evaporate, this is the S.Node ruler in the 11th, and and unpredictable sexual need as a result. This can and has created confrontation with partners in other lives who have had their sexual/ emotional needs go unmet because this Soul has had these cycles where the sexual energy has simply been 'detached' from: evaporated. In turn this has caused such partners them to project upon this Soul all kinds of psychological 'stuff' on this Soul which, of itself, has been wounding and can and has caused the the Soul to retreat even further from such partners.
   Within this the Soul has had, and will have, a strong masturbatory orientation: the S.Node in the 2nd. Even in the context of a relationship this Soul would still have the desire and need to masturbate. And this of course has and can create problems with insecure, 4th House Pluto, N.Node in the 8th, partners. Males who have this signature can have a kind of worship of the phallus. Females can have a kind of worship of the vagina. The worship part comes from the sense of 'power' that these sexual organs contain and symbolize. Accordingly, at this stage of evolution, it can lend itself to having bisexual attractions.
   And because of unresolved traumas over many recent lifetimes, this leading to PTSD, there is a fracturing within the Soul that can not fully engage life itself. It is detached from within itself because of. These kind of Soul would typically speak about itself in a detached or objective way: in the third person. As if their life was a movie that they are watching. Sexually, this will translate into needing various forms of intense sexuality so as to feel engaged in the sexual act whether that is different forms of masturbation, and/ or in relationship with another.

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Besides the common, if not repressed, feeling of being a woman in a man's body or visa versa, would this be a common signature of trans-gender and or sex changes and/or gender identity switching?
Keeping in mind the nodal rulers here(11th and 9th) are we also to see these sexual experiences, both with self and others, to be a soul searching to define what they value and identify with at core levels in terms of their own sexuality?

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    It is not common for this signature to seek out sex change operations in order to revert back to their former sex. This can happen in a very small percentage of those with this signature and will only occur when such a Soul feels that there is something left  over from the prior sex that was not yet finished. It is common for these Souls, at this stage of evolution, to feel trans-gendered, bisexual, and androgynous.

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thanks,
bradley

  Rad

Hi Gonzalo, Bradley, Linda, Ari, and Lucius,

I think it's best, just now, to stay with a more simply practice chart versus putting Pluto, the Nodes, and their planetary rulers in signs and houses. So let's have Pluto in the 8th House, the S.Node in the 5th, it's planetary ruler is the 3rd, the N.Node in the 11th, and it's planetary ruler in the 7th. The evolutionary stage will be 3rd Stage consensus.

So let's have a go at it.

Rad

Thank you Rad for another practice opportunity.

Pluto in the 8th
South node in the 5th, ruler in the 3rd
North node in the 11th, ruler in the 7th.

Aspects: Pluto primary square to the south node
Grand trine between North node, south node ruler, and north node ruler
South node sextile both rulers.
Pluto inconjunct south node ruler, north node ruler

Third stage individuated.

In previous life times, this soul has been seeking to transform itself beyond any attachments and dynamics that have blocked the soul (Pluto in the 8th). The desire has been to awaken to a sense of security that is not contingent on outside circumstances, but comes from within (Pluto polairty in the second).

There was a time in which this soul was a writer, or communicator of some sort. The idea here is their mind (3rd house) has been the primary tool through which they were able to express themselves (5th house) in a way that was encouraged and validated by others, and inspiring (5th house). The intent has been to grasp some core ideas around how life operates (8th house), and put them into words. The skilfullness in this soul is their natural ability to perceive (3rd house) the underlying dynamics of life around them (pluto in the 8th) and express it in creative ways (5th house).

Question: can you help me understand more about how the inconjucnt between pluto and the nodal rulers would have manifested in previous lifetimes?

However there have been powerful experiences through which the self esteem of this soul has been greatly effected, resulting in a great fear of being seen, and a lack of confidence in their creative worth (Pluto squaring sn in 5th). They were persecuted, killed, attacked, blocked, horridly manipulated (8th house key words), for expressing themselves (5th house). It has resulted in a pattern of dissociating from being who they are- to close their heart and not share their gifts (Pluto square 5th house south node).

They have developed a strong degree of self consciousness around who they are. Inwardly needing great approval, yet fearing rejection. This inner reality has created a distorted dynamic in which they attract partners, and other people whom will admire them. They will tend to use whatever tool belt of social skills they have (3rd house) as a way to manipulate their environments and get attention (5th house Pluto square). The way that looks will vary greatly- if we're looking at a pisces sn then they will not even notice their need for attention, though be seeking it all the time and tend to resentfully feel like they are always focused on other people. If we are looking at the south node in Capricorn, then this soul will want others to see their solidity and be constantly trying to portray the image (5th house) of being masterful and capable (Capricorn).

Their relationship with the father will be very revealing. Most likely a situation of sexual abuse (pluto). or intense psychological manipulation in which the father only shared love on certain ego centric contingencies.

Gaining affection from others is very important for this soul. However what they truly have to work on is opening up their own heart. Their need to be loved and validated has lead to a dynamic in which they are outwardly detached and comfortable with who they are (11th house north node), but inwardly deeply hurt and unresolved. In order to stop finding co-vert ways to feel special (5th house), they have the opportunity in this life to actually give birth to something that can in fact only come through them.

This may happen via having children- or writing a book. Anything that puts them in the special role as creator. By having actually BIRTHED something, they then have the ability to reflect on their special nature as creator, and in so doing reclaim their original sense of power.

Once that is done, they then have the opportunity to be truly detached from their creation, as the need to prove their specialness is no longer present. Ultimately, they will find themselves a part of a community of people, or a shared social purpose with others, who don't just apprecaite who they are, but also share the same values. This soul can simply be present in this community and know that it has something special to contribute. Finally, building healthy, balanced relationships will be possible. This soul will develop a more brilliant, objective capacity to see people for who they are, and write about it (11th house north node, trining 7th house ruler which is trine south node ruler in 3rd both INCONJUNCT pluto). The inconjunct to Pluto, to me implies, that they have an inward push in this life to do lots of research and interviews (3rd and 7th) and explore other people (7th) in order to understand the underlying dynamics behind human motivation (pluto in the 8th). They may do studies about mutli cultural manifestations of sexual abuse etc.

Their ability to develop a strong capacity for this communication (inconjunction between pluto and rulers) is contingent on their constant need to in fact look into themselves (pluto in the 8th) and notice their own emotional responses to other people (7th house) and to other information (third house).

This soul also has the ability to become a counselor that has a very sharp and penetrating ability to understand the psychological bottom life behind a person's reality.

The Pluto polarity here is activated through their complete sharing of themselves in the context of making a collective change- i.e no more unresolved issues of needing to focus exclusively on themselves all the time. They then feel the inner space to internalize their own process and stop manipulating their environment to feel special.

At some point, can we look into possibly health issues that may come up for this soul? I dont know enough to talk about it- but I would love to hear what others may know

oh whoops- i wrote mine for third stage individuated. ill re-do it later...

Hi Gonzalo,
 
Exceptional analysis. All of it would be true. However, one of the core, ongoing, lessons of this Soul as reflected in the N.Node in the 11th, ruler in the 7th, the Pluto square to the Nodes, is to evolve beyond an orientation to him/herself and all the egocentric power that you have rightly identified, to actualizing a creative role in which the Soul in defined by helping others. A social role that would benefit others, society, in very meaningful ways in which he would learn to 'hear', the 7th House, others and their needs as they actually exit for these others: opposed to giving to others what the Soul 'thinks' they need according to it's own subjective reality. Giving instead of taking. In essence, the Soul is learning to be an equal among others, not a 'Zarathustra' type in which the Soul not only considers itself as something special and more important as compared to others, and others then expected to server him as you pointed out, but an EQUAL AMONG OTHERS. And this would be true in his/her intimate relationships as well.
Extremely well done Gonzalo ...............

Rad

Sounds great, beginning to reread and work on this.