Old EA Message Board

oh thank you rad...

QuoteThe paradigm will be a 4th House Pluto, the S.Node will be the 2nd House, it's planetary ruler will be in the 11th, N.Node of course in the 8th, and it's planetary ruler will be in the 9th House.

To clarify- are we assuming a skipped step situation here with the planetary ruler of sn?

In general when you give these examples- are we assuming aspects according to what is likely given the house placements (in which case nn ruler is inconjunct nodes, pluto is sextile/trine nodes etc...)?

Ari,

Yes ...............

Rad

As I'm working on the current assignment, rereading the pluto 4th chapter and considering it in light of being on the cusp of the spiritual evolutionary stage, I've specifically been considering at what stage of evolution we know that the soul has already worked on their own inner security issues? 

I'm sensing the answer to this isn't quite linear. 

Specific to this assignment, considering the south node 2nd-self reliance piece-with ruler in 11th-casting off of other definitions of who they are not, combined with the evolutionary stage, am I right to know there has been at least some definite self development around s/he's own inner emotional security?

Near the end of the pluto 4th chapter, Jeffery wrote: "Generally, about 20% of Fourth House Pluto individuals have made real efforts to learn these lessons before."

So, to ask it another way, seeing a soul just entering the spiritual state/or about to-being in the 20% of farther evolved souls, is it still possible that s/he struggles with cycles related to unresolved displaced emotions?  Is it more of degrees in which s/he would struggle, instead of a yes or no?

Many thanks again,
b

Hi Bradley,

Quote from: Bradley J on Nov 30, 2009, 11:47 AM
As I'm working on the current assignment, rereading the pluto 4th chapter and considering it in light of being on the cusp of the spiritual evolutionary stage, I've specifically been considering at what stage of evolution we know that the soul has already worked on their own inner security issues? 

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With a 4th House Pluto the Soul attempts to work on those inner security issues WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF IT'S EVOLUTIONARY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT. For example, in a Consensus State the individual would typically seek to fulfill those inner security issues in the context of his or her family of origin. This of course sets up compulsive dependency on those family members. Yet because the Soul is desiring to develop inner security this then creates emotional and psychological shocks that force the individual back upon him or herself. Those shocks occur when the emotional demands projected upon the various family members go unmet which then has the affect of throwing the person back upon them self.
   So it's the context of the existing state of evolution that is the determinant that correlates to how the Soul is learning this lesson of inner security.

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I'm sensing the answer to this isn't quite linear. 

Specific to this assignment, considering the south node 2nd-self reliance piece-with ruler in 11th-casting off of other definitions of who they are not, combined with the evolutionary stage, am I right to know there has been at least some definite self development around s/he's own inner emotional security?

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Yes relative to that state of evolution, the CONTEXT.

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Near the end of the pluto 4th chapter, Jeffery wrote: "Generally, about 20% of Fourth House Pluto individuals have made real efforts to learn these lessons before."

So, to ask it another way, seeing a soul just entering the spiritual state/or about to-being in the 20% of farther evolved souls, is it still possible that s/he struggles with cycles related to unresolved displaced emotions?  Is it more of degrees in which s/he would struggle, instead of a yes or no?

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Yes the individual still struggles with all kinds of displaced emotions that are rooted IN INSECURITY, AND THE CAUSES FOR  THAT INSECURITY. The matter of 'degrees' of struggling is itself a reflection of the evolutionary state of development because the further along the evolutionary path back to God correlates to SELF KNOWLEDGE. Objective self knowledge. The expanding consciousness because of.

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Many thanks again,
b

Rad

End of 3rd state individuated
Pluto in 4th
sn second- ruler 11th
nn 8th- ruler 9th.

There have been traumatic experiences in which this soul's unique vision, way of living was rejected. Possibly having been exiled or excommunicated- triggering an evolutionary process as indicated by the pluto in the 4th- a deep inner feeling of abandonment and loss.

These experiences have lead the soul to develop it's self sufficiency to a very strong degree. In essence, an unaddressed fear of intimacy- to giving itself over to others and trusting others. This soul has been rejected, perhaps violently so- in ways that have resulted in a pattern of emotional dissociation and refusal to be vulnerable.

This soul naturally wants to make change and wants other people to be a part of that. There is deep within this soul a desire for community, and in particular other people whom they can share themselves with that align with their social values. But giving of itself is naturally a challenge as there is a memory of abandonment. They can fall into periods of intense distrust of other people- deeming others to be selfish and uncaring, all the while expecting others to give, and not actually giving of them self.

At the same time- the soul will have identified certain people in which there is a strong feeling of safety. These people are not necessarily aligned with this soul's higher purpose, or social vision. These people aren't necessarily emotionally honest- rather there is simply a strong degree of stability and security in these relationships. One such relationship may be with the soul's mother. However this reflects the pattern within this soul to avoid really giving of itself, and becoming vulnerable- facing rejection.

QUESTION: what does the Pluto sextile sn, as well as being the apex of a yod to the nodal rulers indicate about this soul's family of origin/mother? My understanding is that the family may be exactly as I described above- conducive to familiarity, yet also conducive to dissociation and not supportive/ or even aware of this soul truly being who they are.

This soul will naturally flip flop between 1: going out on a limb, traveling to new places, meeting new people, connecting to a community, or a vision that allows for a true spiritual and social evolution to occur and devoting them self to living in community with other people who are working towards the same vision and 2: fearing the philosophical differences between them self and others to the point of not seeking new friendships, not going anywhere new- but rather circulating old ways of thinking and social visions- perhaps even being obsessed with certain ideas, but doing nothing about them.

The experience of flip flopping occurs as this soul gets so overwhelmed with the need to live differently, to have more excitement and purpose in their life, to un-stagnate their intense stubbornness, isolation and non exposure to the world. Then, they get really excited and impassioned. They start moving towards other people, towards the unfamiliar, they start sharing their truth and even start finding other people who are just like them... BUT some sort of trigger keeps on pushing them back to being a frog in the well. This trigger is anything that bespeaks a possible betrayal and loss. Suddenly the new friend who wants to work together on a project to create permaculture gardens all over the country either: becomes attached to our soul resulting in a feeling of fear, as intimacy and sharing is threatening. Or the opposite: the new friend is them self very stubborn and self reliant, resulting in our soul feeling unsafe as they do not feel they can become dependent on their new friend to always be there and share in their vision.

In another case- this soul may literally be confronted with social groups, organizations etc that are on the one hand very visionary and enlightened, but on the other hand intensely limited in their spiritual scope of the world. This soul may identify with this group, but then realize that they them self have a perspective of life that is more holistic. They will then feel alienated and different. They will try to influence others and speak their truth, but the group will not be interested in making any changes. As a result they will eventually disconnect from this group and return to the safe, known familiar- which isn't challenging, but also isn't evolutionary.

This soul is evolving via the emotional body. This means that there is a natural process of cyclically breaking free from their environments of security that are safe and familiar, but not conducive to evolution. This will force the soul to eventually realize that they have to be vulnerable, they have to risk letting go of their own space and let someone in who can really care for them and who shares in their vision.

The key here is really to be forming conscious relationships with people and with any symbol that focuses on the evolution of consciousness. This soul needs to take transformation seriously, and make it a conscious intent in their life. There must be at some point a developed awareness that it needs to create a container to grow beyond it's limitations of isolation, false dependencies, social frustration and fear.

The relationships they create will help them foster true objectivity that allows them to become more aware of both understanding and  experiencing in their own way- evolution. It will be their role to help other people see beyond their own limitations, via this soul's growing ability to identify the blocks to growth. They will become increasingly exposed to new people, new ways of looking at life- to an expansive perspective of reality that gives them more real security and inner self reliance.

By traveling- either intellectually, via the internet, or through actual travel, they will be able to connect to community of like minded souls that are working towards the same lessons- to evolve their own consciousness in the context of a community... other soul's who are developing an awareness of evolution just as they are. They may create a relationship with E.A. In doing so- they will have the philosophical and visionary framework to work on them self and help others.

The key to all of this is simply their willingness to be vulnerable and challenge their known security. The PPP here is symbolized by making something of their identity that requires interaction, sharing and the giving of oneself to others and to ideas that are HIGHER than oneself. These ideas must also be healing tools that allows for the development of an objective/detached consciousness within the soul.

In being detached and objective this soul is not afraid of other people. They can be who they are and simply see everything from a higher perspective w/out the interference of their subjective need for security and blind simplicity.

Ari,

From your post: "QUESTION: what does the Pluto sextile sn, as well as being the apex of a yod to the nodal rulers indicate about this soul's family of origin/mother? My understanding is that the family may be exactly as I described above- conducive to familiarity, yet also conducive to dissociation and not supportive/ or even aware of this soul truly being who they are."

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It correlates to a great crisis for this Soul. All children, as children, naturally expect to be loved and and giving too for who they are. When this does not happen it leads to displaced emotions: the 11th house S.Node ruler being inconjunct Pluto in the 4th. Those displaced emotions are the emotions of the child that get progressively stuffed into the subconscious structure within the person. Those childhood emotions then operate at a subconscious level as the person becomes as adult, and become the basis of emotional expectations they project .. 11th house..upon other people, and the world: the 10th House polarity of the 4th House Pluto. The inconjunct from the 9th House planetary ruler of the N.Node in the 8th, in this Soul's context, to one or both parents being perceived as psychological and emotional tormentors by this Soul BECAUSE OF BEING DIFFERENT which then lead to be isolated by the family .. the S.Node in the 2nd house.

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Your analysis was really , really good Ari. Good for you !

Rad

THANK YOU Rad.

i was wondering if there could possibly be an actual social paranoia that someone is out to get them- a constant fear of being tortured, or turned in?

or would that be more applicable if the soul was second stage individuated?

Rad and all,
I'm not just out here in cyber-space; I'm actually still on the planet earth and studying between the business of life.  I should be ready to post by friday or saturday on this.

And, I have one clarifying question.  As with pluto squaring the nodes, are we to treat a planet squaring the nodes in a similar manner?  by this, I mean-JWG wrote  "When Pluto applies to the north node, then the polarity point of pluto and the south node and its planetary ruler must be integrated thru the north node, with its ruling planet facilitating the process."  (pluto book I, p. 22 first edition)

So, in our current assignment, if we apply this with the sn ruler squaring and applying to the nn, then the above is true with the nn and its planetary ruler facilitating the process of integrating the skipped steps as they relate to ppp, sn and its ruler?  Is the question clear?

Thanks,
b

Hi Ari,

Quote from: ari moshe on Dec 07, 2009, 11:10 AM
THANK YOU Rad.

i was wondering if there could possibly be an actual social paranoia that someone is out to get them- a constant fear of being tortured, or turned in?

or would that be more applicable if the soul was second stage individuated?

Yes, it is possible depending on the actual signs involved. For example, the S.Node could be in Virgo in the 2nd, with it's planetary ruler Mercury in Gemini in the 11th, the N.Node in Pisces in the 8th, ruler Neptune in the 9th, all relative to a 4th House Pluto in Scorpio.

Rad

Bradley,

Yes, you have it exactly right ............

Rad

hopefully soon, progress as needed,

much love,
b

Cusp 3rd Individuated/1st Spiritual  :  Pluto 4th  - SN 2nd  - SN Ruler 11th

The Soul experiences trauma at birth when the umbilical cord gets tied around her neck. [Edit:  Incorrect.  See Rad's reply #292 below.] In the life and death struggle she is met by the poisonous and tenacious matriarchal matrix:  mother!  As the birth is so difficult and the mother totally exhausted, no bond takes place between mother and child.  The Soul's needs are unable to be met by the mother nor by the absent father.  The mother refuses to breast-feed so the baby is fed with a bottle formula.  She cries a lot.  Her physical and emotional needs are not properly met.  She is labelled as "odd" or "different" by the family.  The neglect continues and as the child grows she retreats more and more into her own world.  

She feels every emotion intensely and deeply.  She is very needy, overly sensitive, and inhibited.  As a teenager, she cries alone in her room and seeks a relationship with the divine to comfort her.  She is totally misunderstood and taunted, yet she loves her parents, tries to be of service, and displays a kindness and light that sets her apart.  The lack of emotional support from the early environment is imprinted in her subconscious and as she is unable to resolve the imprint of "no nurture", her emotions become displaced.  

A treacherous symbiosis forms with the mother who uses emotional blackmail to manipulate and control her.  The soul's need for love and care is met with rejection, and so she suffers recurring patterns of illness in the hope of getting just a little love through her mother's attention.  She can unconsciously manipulate others to get her needs met by feigning desperation.  Her neediness and dependency are so powerful that when there is no release from them, she uses food for comfort.  She suffers from a lack of energy and despondency as her self-image is very low.  She tries to untangle herself from the long and intense power struggle with her mother, but with no success, as the binds that tie go too deep (past lives).  The entanglement infringes on the development of her individuality, and as she gets older she recognizes the need to get away from the mother:  the need for space.

She takes up the piano and singing, but tends to cop out on herself a lot (waning sextile).  She feels weak with the seed of insecurity and has to keep reminding herself "you can do it."  Through a steely determination she continues with the piano until she becomes quite accomplished.  She moves into composition and is able to express her uniqueness, originality and brilliance through her music and lyrical themes for social change.

Meditation is an important facet of her life as she is beginning to really open up her consciousness to the cosmos.  She has a passion for astrology and finds she is quite talented in that she can use her intuition in her readings as well as naturally grasp the spiritual archetypes.  She joins together with like-minded friends in group situations and understands what is required of her by the group.  Her social purpose is expressed through personal humility (waning inconjunct) and sensitivity.  She cares a lot for the "needs of the many", and spends a lot of time in alternative environments adopting them as her "home".  She has the capacity to defend the defenceless and may sacrifice herself for the group.

She forms relationships with friends that alternate between her being very needy of the other, and drawing emotionally weak people who become dependent on her.  Her focus on the weak points and subtle domination of the needy partner guarantees fulfilment of her security issues.  She has a tendency to over-react when her needs are not met.  The pushing of buttons of unresolved needs can lead to sudden eruptions of rage, anger, insecurity, panic, desperation, non-stop crying, or the injection of a dark mood.  After these eruptions abate she is totally apologetic, but soon becomes classifed by others as unstable or a nervous type. When a relationship ends, she suffers an emotional shock due to the cataclysm of loss.  She may become emotionally disturbed or psychologically unstable, and may seek psychiatric help.

The unstable foundation of unresolved needs may cause her to bury her emotions.  These old, unresolved emotions when released through cataclysms can bring trauma and shock.  The defence mechanism of emotional shut down can sever connections with others.  She has a very hard time coping with losses in relationships and may spend years trying to get over them, all the while nursing deep resentments and bitterness.  On recovery, the pattern is then quickly repeated as she attaches herself to another in total dependency and symbiosis.

She experiences two distinct and unpredictable cycles:  (1) the need to be alone to process emotions that are being released by her subconscious;  and (2) an animated and lively expression when these emotions are being processed.  She also needs space and time alone to think, alternating with breaking free with unrestricted and sometimes shocking behaviour.  To others she appears quite eccentric, nervous, emotionally quirky, yet very gentle.

She is denied the material resources of the parents and cannot relate to their materialistic values.  She believes in the bounty of the universe to provide her needs, while putting in minimal effort to sustain herself (laziness).  She is fixed in a secure and limited knowledge about life in general and makes progress by taking one step forward and two steps back (cardinal 4th).

An example would be aligning herself with a powerful person who generously offers her free accommodation in return for musical performances.  When she takes the situation for granted, and the bills start piling up, and the free situation falls through, she finds herself homeless, with an overburdened credit card, her spiritual sustenance dried up, her parents cutting off support, the loss of friends and social connections, and the sudden termination of her dependent relationship.  The cataclysmic shock and psychological trauma forces her to examine the dynamics around her value systems and to radically alter her life, while at the same time enabling her to make adjustments in her emotional behaviour.  She is learning that others are just as important as she is, and this understanding helps widen her previously limited vision of life.

She subconsciously draws to herself people who can point out the limitations associated with her value systems, and how to promote self-reliance through her own efforts.  These people can easily see where she is going wrong and can give valuable advice.  Improvements are made and she learns how to apply her skills and talents to society in a way that is compatible with others' value systems and in a way that is of value to society.  These lessons bring newfound heights and sensitivity to her music, expansion to her astrological skills to the point where she can start practising, a deepening of her spiritual commitment and awakening to the truth, and the ability to share her spiritual resources with others.  


...........To be continued (PPP, NN 8th, NN Ruler 9th).

Hi Linda,

Well, I can certainly appreciate the effort you have put into this analysis. But what you have really done Linda in make up a story within the paradigm that we are focusing on now. There is NO WAY that these symbols to date would be able to arrive at the details you have presented in the story you have created: i.e. the cord being tied around the baby's neck, etc.  You have touched certain archetypal themes within the story that you have created that are accurate.
What we need to do in these practice charts Linda is to focus on THE ARCHETYPES THEMSELVES such as Gonzalo did, or like Ari did. To demonstrate within the analysis the interaction of those archetypes that then correlate to the core of where the Soul is at within themselves and why.
Please consider redoing this analysis in this way, which you have done before.

Rad

Thanks Rad for your evaluation.

I didn't read Gonzalopan's or Ari's assignments on purpose, as I wanted to attempt it purely from my own understanding and effort.

I'll try again.

Do we need permission to post here?  Under the assumption that I think not I am posting a short 'reading' of the information given.  I have done some of the EA homework assignments but it has been awhile & I'm wanting to dust off my EA methods.  I thought the SN was applying to square planet -shows how rusty I am!  Anyway, I admit I'm very tired, but have thought of contributing frequently but never have - if I don't know or just do it, I never will (SN taurus speaking here with ruler retro & squaring it, believe me, I know procrastination and as a virgo I am willing to be very imperfect to just get it out there!).  So, although I'm tired & it's not comprehensive & I didn't really go into past life possiblities in detail this is still a sincere effort.

Pluto 4th  sn 2nd ruler square 11th nn 8th ruler 9th

(notes. Relativity of ego - need for confrontation w/security/insecurity.  Voluntary and forced examination of values, needs.  If family not supportive, etc.  If it is, then - ?  Regardless many lives of not being loved/accepted unconditionally leading to "˜rebelling' looking for "˜family' - increasingly this is not satisfactory and the soul is moving toward embracing a larger dynamic - to confront it's constant objectivication, projection of power to see that security is not a dynamic  created by an ever-changing ego - etc.)

With Pluto in the 4th house this person would be deeply emotional, sensitive and invested in their self-image for a sense of security and this, because they are high tuned to their environment, is frequently a direct result of family origins despite many lives of individuation, they still feel emotionally fragile - given their evolutionary state this issue is reinforced as they recognize that even their hard won "˜individuality"˜ ultimately is also subject to illusion and erosion in the face of larger forces.  The interaction within themselves and the world is paramount - their environment is crucial in that the feedback for their self-image is built.  This person would be coming into this life with many prior lives wherein their sense of who they are was damaged by their environment, especially the family they were born into.  Many lives of having the feedback of being too weird, too different and misunderstood has created a deep sense of lack and self doubt (point is to question security, it's basis and where indeed one's self-image comes from).  This person is highly tuned to their environment and thus when the natal situation is hostile the external feedback is internalized.  This person has been learning to access their fundamental values, meaning in order to sort and separate themselves from others and from environments that are hostile.  This may have caused  situations/lives wherein they are "˜hiding' out, not participating and becoming too adapted to their safe place.  These situations have collapsed in on themselves as circumstances force them to confront a larger reality and to see themselves within a larger context.  They have been forced to develop a level of objectivity and detachment in order to recognize where they begin and end - where other judgements are other's projections onto to them and what is essentially true within themselves.  They will eventually come to recognize their dependence on other's projections/judgements to maintain/define their self-image and as this has become increasingly unsatisfactory they recognize the depth of their insecurity and that other's opinions/judgements etc. and even the circumstances of their lives do not provide the answers - the foundation is within themselves, considering the evolutionary state this person would begin to realize the very porous nature of the ego itself - the illusions created from within and allowed to be sustained from further illusions from without.  Within the SN 2nd and it's ruler in the 11th these lessons have been repeated over and over to create as sense of frustration - progress being made only to be  plunged back into confusion and feeling capable of being only self-reliant.  They have become too accustomed to their safe place, their self-image and have only accepted external feedback from within certain selective groups or functions.  They have developed an amount of self-reliance and community but, increasingly this only satisfies the "˜known' and not what is beyond even a carefully cultivated image, persona and social context.  The NN, ruler and skipped step shows the need to entirely embrace the unknown via immersion with that which is "˜other'.

Within the skipped step they have either been totally emersed in an "˜other"˜ whether a person, or ides, philosophy, religion, etc. or conversely entirely a loner, within a safe zone and even if involved in "˜ideas"˜ or projects communally they are were never fully emotionally engaged.  This person has wanted to "˜jump' in and merge themselves totally in others as a means of "˜self-image' or security - the soul first needs to establish fully it's own inner security.  I would suggest that an exacerbation of the issues of self-image have been reinforced from a possible gender switch creating further confusion. 
This skipped step shows that the revelations within themselves via intense relationships of all kinds needs and will be revisited to create the necessary emotional and psychological adjustment - not just an intellectual one.  Within these "˜confrontations"˜ via ideas, religion, philosophy, intense relationships this person is learning the relativity of security, of meaning and of the very foundation of their perceived "˜needs"˜.  The are being prodded to engage, to question, to quest - to test their inner values and core worth within a context outside of themselves.  North node in the eighth has created situations wherein they have seen themselves within a larger context - whether it be in relationships, ideas, religion, philosophically, but always there is the desire to have the self-image and emotional security be coming from without, from outside themselves - the feeling of security, if they did not create or have that feeling via projection they would then totally retreat.  They are seeking to understand themselves within a universal context increasingly, - but, until inner security (or the illusion of security is relinquished on an ego level) is established they cannot be in satisfactory relationships or see their inner meaning fully reflected in their life.    I would add that any lies or distortions based upon illusions and their need for a particular self-image will explode/implode.  The lies they've used to sustain themselves will be uncovered within relationships and psychological examination.  Ultimately the point is to move, dynamically, outside and beyond the stasis of either/or.  To recognize that security is not other's evalutation or opinion/judgement, it is not what 'you get' via relationships, it is not determined by an ever-changing ego but is an acceptance of phenomenal reality, of time itself and the changes it creates and taking responsibility for one's own needs and desires.  Security would be realized through increasingly becoming aware of that which is beyond ever evaporating desires.  This would lead this person to seek eventually what the source of their consciousness is, what sustains the 'illusion' outside of their ego consciousness.  I would also add that this person would be capable of fully expressing the 'flower' of their individuality, of their ego within a special work or expression.  This would be the best expression of the PPP.  Aside from that the need for externalization, objectivications and assuming responsiblities on many levels - personal and public are required.  A real healing could take place by recognizing the place of the collective, the responsible and ethical within the intense inner focus of the self.
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