School of Evolutionary Astrology
  • Welcome to Old EA Message Board. Admin.
  • Visit the new EA Forum »
    all the NEW EA Q & A are being posted on the new School of Evolutionary Astrology Forum.

PRACTICE CHARTS

Started by Rad, Mar 24, 2009, 01:26 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

stephen

Hi Everyone,

Well, I'm back (and it looks like I missed an assignment!)

I will read this thread up to the point of the 'classwork' request, to avoid reading anyone else's answers, and then respond as soon as I can.

I hope everyone has been well...

Best Bright Blessings to you all,  :)
Stephen

Linda

Stephen,

Welcome back.  We are presently looking at:

7th house Pluto
9th house SN
Early 1st stage individuated


Also:

1st house Pluto polarity
3rd house NN


It's been fascinating reading everyone's diverse responses so far.

Looking forward to reading yours too!

Bradley J

Stephen, welcome back!

Deva and Rad, thanks for the response.  With reading these in conjuction with reading over the chapters of pluto in the 7th/libra and 9th/sag. this is making more sense. 
Understanding the difference of early individuated vs. middle individuated was a great help.

Deva-I do have a couple of questions to clarify what you are saying.
First, when you wrote: "The point within this is to examine the nature of the judgements that are formed (i.e-is it based on a natural system or on man made beliefs that condition our judgements as to what is right and what is wrong)."  are you saying that if a "judgement" has it's root in a natural system it is linked to the 9th/sag archetype and that judgements that come from "man made beliefs" are connected to the 10th/cap.?

Second question, when you wrote:"Self righteousness is a distortion of this archetype."-I am assuming you are referring to sag/9th.  The question is whose the one distorting it?  Is it the observer who percieves it as such or is it the individual-in which case this "distortion" would be a shadow expression of this archetype.

After re-reading the pluto 9th/sag. chapter and Rad's post, it is very clear how beliefs and philosophies often lead into judgement.  Is this meaning that judgements are a byproduct of this 9th/sag archetype and the 10th/cap?  OR is this more in the sense of- "Just as Capricorn/10th follows  Sag/9th, so do judgements  follow beliefs and philosophies for individuals who respond to their embraced beliefs/faith in the Billy Gram archetype fashion"?

I would love to expand on 1st and 3rd polarity points; rereading chapters and meditating on all this...
Thanks,
B

Rad

Bradley,


Quote from: Bradley J on Sep 01, 2009, 05:45 PM
Stephen, welcome back!

Deva and Rad, thanks for the response.  With reading these in conjuction with reading over the chapters of pluto in the 7th/libra and 9th/sag. this is making more sense. 
Understanding the difference of early individuated vs. middle individuated was a great help.

Deva-I do have a couple of questions to clarify what you are saying.
First, when you wrote: "The point within this is to examine the nature of the judgements that are formed (i.e-is it based on a natural system or on man made beliefs that condition our judgements as to what is right and what is wrong)."  are you saying that if a "judgement" has it's root in a natural system it is linked to the 9th/sag archetype and that judgements that come from "man made beliefs" are connected to the 10th/cap.?

***************************************************************************

Souls in human form, consciousness, can only learn, thus evolve, because of judgments. Judgments are natural to consciousness. This issue is not judgments as such, it is the CONTENT within consciousness that is used to form the basis of judgments. So the question is, relative to the 9th House and NATURAL LAWS, is the content one of natural laws that lead TO NATURAL JUDGMENTS, or is that content DISTORTIONS OF NATURAL LAWS in all kinds of ways that then lead to judgments based on those distortions ? Judgments, as an archetypes, is Capricorn, the 10th House, and of course Saturn.
Any 'belief' system that is not rooted in the NATURAL LAWS OF GOD/ESS are, of themselves, distortions. And those distorted beliefs them become the basis of the distorted judgments that are formed relative to the 10th House, Capricorn, and Saturn.

***************************************************************************

Second question, when you wrote:"Self righteousness is a distortion of this archetype."-I am assuming you are referring to sag/9th.  The question is whose the one distorting it?  Is it the observer who percieves it as such or is it the individual-in which case this "distortion" would be a shadow expression of this archetype.

************************************************************************

It is the Soul embodied in an individual form, with an individualized ego, that is the one who can form distorted judgments that are the basis of it's 'self righteousness'. The Soul that it is absolutely 'right' as in the case of Billy Graham and countless other Souls who have then leveled their righteous judgments upon others because, of course, they are right !

**************************************************************************

After re-reading the pluto 9th/sag. chapter and Rad's post, it is very clear how beliefs and philosophies often lead into judgement.  Is this meaning that judgements are a byproduct of this 9th/sag archetype and the 10th/cap?

*************************************************************************

Beliefs, again, are themselves judgments upon the nature of the cosmos, the nature of Creation, what life is, and what it means. And these beliefs them become that basis of HOW WE JUDGE OTHERS: the 10th House in general. And how the Consensus, 10th House, Capricorn, Saturn, judges the individual via consensus held beliefs equaling ethics and moralities, rights and wrongs, etc.

*************************************************************************

OR is this more in the sense of- "Just as Capricorn/10th follows  Sag/9th, so do judgements  follow beliefs and philosophies for individuals who respond to their embraced beliefs/faith in the Billy Gram archetype fashion"?

*************************************************************************

see above ........

************************************************************************



I would love to expand on 1st and 3rd polarity points; rereading chapters and meditating on all this...
Thanks,
B

Rad

Deva

Hi, thanks Rad for clarifying the questions about my post. Bradley, please let me know if you have any more questions about what I have written, and yes lets go the the polarity points of this example now! This is a great thread, and thanks to all who have contributed so far.
Deva

stephen

Quote from: Linda on Aug 31, 2009, 05:44 PM
Stephen,

Welcome back.  We are presently looking at:

7th house Pluto
9th house SN
Early 1st stage individuated


Also:

1st house Pluto polarity
3rd house NN


It's been fascinating reading everyone's diverse responses so far.

Looking forward to reading yours too!

  Thanks Linda, for that synopsis of the assignment.  I want to make certain I don't read the other responses before trying to understand the question myself...

  Yes, I agree, everyone's differing ways of exploring these topics are really helping me to understand the subject matter from viewpoints other than my oen (limited) understanding.

  Thanks Bradley for the Welcome Back!

Blessings,
Stephen


Bradley J

This post is done, similar to Stephen's idea-review of pertaining chapters, but I did not reread recent posts from Ari Moshe and Linda in order to develop my own voice and conscious understanding.
Thanks again, Bradley

Pluto 7th/south node 9th:  Focusing on Pluto polarity point 1st house/north node 3rd:
(Early Individuated State)

As discussed earlier in this thread, this individual incarnated into this life just coming out of a consensus reality.  In their karmic past, relationships around them created a great sense of security and it means a lot that they are liked by those in their life.
At this karmic point in time for this soul, they have come into this life with a lot of recent influence from teacher type relationships.  These relationships have opened up their view of life and reality beyond the socially accepted "norm".  We do not know what culture this individual last lived in, so the current consensus reality may or may not align with a personally new developing cosmic perspective on life.
Having reiterated all this, lets go on.

This new knowledge which has had such a great impact on this individual came from others thru relationship.  NOW, in this lifetime, it is their karmic mission to awaken to their own destiny-answer questions like: "How do I personally fit into this paradigm as i understand it now?"  "What actions should I take?"  and to find these answers for themselves. 
Part of their path is to develop their own voice and intellect, so that what they speak is a reflection of their true self.  Having been so open to listen to what others were speaking and learning from it, they are at a point where they can continue this journey by realizing the self.   Ironically, this would not be alone in a closet.  It will come thru continuing in dialog with those in their life. 
In the past, it was easy and most comfortable to please others by letting them speak and hearing what they have to say.
This is still important, but what is crucial here is that their own voice is heard equally.
This new awakened sense of self will be realized thru the mind as they begin to ask questions and gather facts, information, and fill in the details to the new larger cosmic paradigm which their consciousness is beginning to grasp.
With other nodal placements and this pluto house position, I'd say that the person would have to be out of relationship for a period of time to truly find their self.  This may or may not be true, but what is important for this soul is to continue thru dialog and conversation to develop their voice, their own thoughts and insights, learn supporting facts and information that explain why they now perceive reality and their place in it as such and what freedom means to them.
This development thru conversation is about purposeful conversation that promotes self growth and intellect.  They already know how to carry on with idol chit-chat and this and that.
This will lead to the development of their ability to understand and know their own needs and how to communicate them.

An example of a potential challenging situation that they may face:
Let's say this person meets someone that they sense immediately a desire to be in a relationship with.  It is in America in the 20th century.  They are now in their 30s.  In their 20s they had lived with an individual whom they learned a great deal about life from.  This past teacher, whom they stay in communication with, has issues with anyone that identifies with Catholicism.  This person's attracted mate is catholic; while they personally hold different ideologies of life, their conversations are rich and transforming for this person.  The individual here has a hurdle to jump with mental blocks of even considering such a relationship that they feel drawn to as well as the sensed break down in the relationship of this other teacher/friend of years in their life.  They must make this decision for their self.  They also have a lot of fears come up because the potential mate views relationship in a different perspective(more consensus) and the honesty that the conversation calls for promotes great growth for real sharing and overcoming fears of speaking their own truth.  It is a challenge to see that the ultimate outcome is not as important as the choices in that now.

In conclusion, if the individual achieves the above, re-entering into relationships with these evolved awarenesses, the soul will create a beautiful harmony and balance in all relations that they chose to engage in.
And will be a joy to have a conversation with, having a great sense of when to speak and when to listen and adding in pertinent questions and meaningful examples and stories.



Rad

Bradley,

Good so far Bradley...............

Rad

Rad

Bradley, Stephan, Linda, Michelle, and Ari..........

Ok, feels like it's time to move forwards with our practice chart. We will stay with this one and now add the location of the planetary rulers for the S. and N.Nodes. Let's put the planetary ruler of the S.Node in the 11th House, and the location of the N.Node in the 4th House. And please keep in mind that we are, again, talking about a Soul just moving into the 1st stage individuated: within the last few lifetimes.

So let's have a go at it.

Rad

stephen

Hi Everyone,

  Sorry to possibly slow things down by going backward, so to speak, over ground already covered.  However, I would certainly appreciate reading any comments about what I write concerning the questions at hand if anyone has anything at all to offer, and the time to offer it.  (Please help me correct any errors of thinking/analysis!)

I'll just split up the assignments that I am 'owing' the Board into three responses:
  1- Synopsis of Early First Stage Individuated (attached below)
  2- 7th House Pluto with 9th House South Node
  3- 1st House Pluto Polarity Point with 3rd House North Node

Thanks for the Patience,
and True Blessings of the God'dess,
Stephen



Early First Stage Individuated

  In the early First Stage Individuated, the Soul now begins to rebel against the consensus state and against having the definition of its own self-identity being established by its association with the herd, and the society into which they were born.  This has the effect of beginning the process of separating them from the herd from which their sense of security was previously provided.

  This rebellion takes the form first of questioning the customs and beliefs of the consensus, second of discarding this limiting consensus belief structure, and third in searching for a true inner identity, or sense of self.

  This leads to the Soul beginning to think for itself, and thus additionally question its previous "˜assumptions' about the structure of its own reality, and by extension, the reality of its birth society, and then even the structure of the Cosmos itself.  The Soul uncovers the fact that there is much much more to reality than the consensus viewpoint contains.  This insight forces the Soul to attempt to replace the discarded belief structure with their own self-discovered structure, through which they can understand the Cosmos, and from which they can slowly learn to draw their actions.

  As they begin to proceed in this search, they have a sense of "˜feeling different' deep within themselves.  However, this sense of "˜difference' can easily lead to a sense of alienation and insecurity, since "security is produced through self-consistency, which is itself provided by a sense of constancy of the past (that which is leading into the present)."

  Thus, the old comforts of the consensus reality can thus still seem "˜attractive' but will no longer satisfy the Soul on some level, due to the slowly but steadily increasing level of self-awareness.  However, this can lead to the insecure Soul mimicking the "˜forms' of the consensus reality, in its job, style of dress, manner of entertainment, and possibly choice of friends, in an attempt at appearing "˜normal' and to recover its previous sense of security.  This is a surface compensation only, since the Soul truly is in rebellion against the consensus, and is beginning to discover that inwardly it is actually different from the others in the consensus state.  This form of compensation can produce a very intense feeling of "˜living a lie', even while the Soul is trying to uncover the truth, and can unfortunately have the side-effect of attracting exactly the consensus-level people that the Soul is trying to distance itself from.  This can possibly further lead to a sense of being perpetually misunderstood, and this fact itself could very well begin to diminish the false and temporary sense of security that this form of compensation affords.

  This sense of otherness [separating from the herd], exacerbated by the tension generated through "˜living a lie' even while seeking the truth, will itself accelerate the developing search for truth.  A "˜Truth' which will no longer be exclusive as embedded within the truth of the consensus, but will instead become inclusive as reflective of the truth of the various peoples on the entire planet.  The individual will soon start to question everything, and so will begin to investigate this developing and personal sense of Truth, possibly through reading, through self-discovery/self-enhancement workshops and conferences, through studying the cultures, spiritual beliefs and history of the world, and through seeking those who are going through, or have already gone through, this very process of self-discovery.

  Even though the Soul is rebelling against a consensus-defined society, it still seeks to find a place where it will fit in.  Finding a "˜like-minded-group' will help these Souls to eventually give up the attempt at compensatory behavior, and possibly to even begin to discard the trappings of the previous behaviors of their earlier life, as well "¦ previous friendships, possessions, manner of living and dress and entertainment.  If financially possible, they may very well take the step of leaving their current job for one which more accurately reflects that growing sense of self-identity, or may just do whatever work pays the bills in this interim period of intense self-discovery.

  The diverse viewpoints discovered in this search will continue the process of the expansion of their self-awareness and consciousness, and will eventually lead toward an innate understanding of the value of an individual's freedom to discover (and uncover) the meaning of the world for themselves.


Rad

Stephen,
   
   Excellent !

Rad

Bradley J

Pluto 7th/south node 9th-ruler 11th/north node 3rd-ruler 4th: Early individuated Evolutionary state:

Now that we have the house positions of the rulers of the nodes, we can begin to fill in more of the details regarding the souls last few lifetimes as well as guiding words on how to focus on their developement in the current lifetime.
The strong need to be involved in relationships(pluto 7th) supports that the "teachers" in this souls past lifetimes(s.n. 9th/early individuated) were part of a small group within the herd state culture that she/he lived in(ruler in 11th).  Together, in these smaller circles of friends, she/he was able to discuss a perspective on life and general philosophy that was not accepted by the general community around them.  This/these small group(s) may have been few or many, may have changes shape and size and focus, but would have had a common thread of seeing the current collective mundane reality with a bird's eye philosophy of the how's and why's the dynamics of life occur the way they do.  This could have been thru study of other cultures, study of a specific philosophy or religion, or even a group that may not have been clearly defined with a goal, focus, or purpose but to process together-birds of a feather flock together.
I keep seeing a small string of birds on a line watching the activities of life from above.
This past was not "on the outside looking in", but more like "in it, yet realizing that i'm not really of it".  We have already established that this soul began to embrace a new perspective outside of the cultural norm(early individuated state), NOW we see this is emphasized with the 11 house s.n. ruler.   Now, we can also see that these small group learning experiences were the  beginning of the shedding of the skin of the herd state mentality.  We have yet to determine whether the soul has reincarnated into the same culture or not.
In this life, we have discussed the activation of the pluto polarity point in the sense of developing the self.  Whole onto thyself first, and then relationship.  We clarified that the north node in the 3rd house shows us that the path to establishing their own perspective will come from questioning everything...still(early individuated).  This could be challenging for this soul because (early individuated) they are moving out of a familiar mentality and are just learning  "relative to their soul" new philosophies about life.  It would be easier in a sense to wholeheartedly embrace the teachings of the ones in their life they have been learning from.  And perhaps this was done, but it left this person feeling outside of their self.  She/he needs to get in touch with where they are at with all of life now, questioning  all, old and new, is needed.  Now, we can add this piece(n.n. ruler in the 4th):  So, we already have a dynamic of "not yet familiar" with life philosophies(early individuated)-Stephen described this dynamic well in his piece on the early individuated state.  This piece makes it even more clear that it is going to be important for this soul to begin to create a deep inner sense of security around their new orientation to reality-with a highlight on their own-not just their teacher/friends ideas.

So, this is the part I'm not sure on-in Pluto book one JWG teaches about the nodes being "the modes of operation that help the individual fulfill the evolutionary necessities and desires." and the planetary rulers of the nodes act as facilitators to develop(north node) or have developed the mode of operation of the node by house and sign.
So, when I thought about the s.n 9th/ruler 11, it was relatively easy to see how these roles may have played out: What facilitated the developement of these learning experiences in relationships?
-because pluto is in the seventh, I was inclined to see that the soul wanted to be liked and found comradship in a group(s.n.ruler 11th) that helped develop these new ideas/visions/life philosophies(s.n. 9th)
Now, when I take that same concept to the n.n. 3rd and ruler of 4th-it is so much easier to reverse the two-so, I'm saying that it is easier to imagine that development of emotional security leading into the ability of being able to ask the right questions and have the deeper conversations which lead to coming into one's own place with "all this".
But I feel like it should be "how would she/he develop their ability to question and communicate about these new perspectives on life?-by going deep within his/her self and feeling out what really hits home for her/him. 
Does my question make sense, this is the part I am confused on. 

Thanks,
Bradley J


stephen

7th House Pluto with 9th House South Node in Early 1st Individuated

  How have the 7th House previous orientations/past desires (Pluto) occurred or been actualized within the last few lifetimes in the context of a 9th House Mode of Operation (South Node) for an individual in the Early First Stage Individuated Evolutionary Condition of the Soul?


  The 7th House Pluto Soul has previously been learning the process of developing an objective awareness of its own self, and additionally attempting to understand this new-found sense of individuality through a social perspective.  So, in a preliminary way, the Soul has been learning the evolutionary lesson of objectivity versus subjectivity, which includes the lessons of true listening, equality, and balance, and the Soul would have been learning these lessons through its belief system (9th House South Node).  Specifically, the past egocentric structure and self-image of the Soul would have been based upon the need for the person to understand them self through these relationships (7th House) in a philosophical or cosmological context (9th House).
  Additionally, in the early First Stage Individuated, the Soul is starting to rebel against the consensus state and against having its own self-identity be established by its association with the herd and its birth society.  This has the effect of beginning the process of separating the individual from the herd through which their sense of security was previously provided.

  Within this path of Soul growth, a fundamental lesson is how to participate in relationships, and so this will be a driving force for the individual coming into this life.  That particular lesson will therefore require conscious involvement within a broad diversity of relationships (7th House), leading the Soul to have an exposure to many different value systems, intellectual systems, emotional patterns, and spiritual beliefs.
However, since the rebellion takes the form of questioning the customs and beliefs of the consensus, this diversity of relationships will come under an intense scrutiny (1st Individuated) while the Soul learns to listen objectively in order to determine how to relate to those others, in order to gain a true understanding of others (7th House).  Additionally, since it is a person's belief system which provides the method that they will use to actually interpret life, it is the developing belief system (9th House) which will determine those relationships which the individual initiates, and then chooses to continue.

  The individuating Soul is attempting to replace its discarded belief structure with their own self-discovered structure from which they can slowly learn to draw their actions.  This will be a structure designed to explain the Soul's connection to the "phenomenological nature of the universe," through which they can come to understand the Cosmos (9th House South Node).

  As this framework is being built, the individuating person questions everything, and so has been investigating this developing and personal sense of truth through a diversity of relationships (7th House).  And, they will come to view their relationships through these metaphysical or philosophical principles (9th South Node), including their relationship to the Cosmos itself.  Since they are moving through the early stages of the Individuated Soul State, these principles will not be based upon a religious context (consensus reality), but instead will be founded upon the Soul's own developing spiritual context.

  The Soul, in the process of discarding the limiting consensus belief structure (1st Individuated), will uncover the fact that there is much much more to reality than the consensus viewpoint contains, and this will then further lead to the individual searching for a true inner identity or sense of self.

  The Soul's unconscious emotional security structures are defined by the need to be in relationships in order to feel fulfilled and complete.  However, rebellion (1st Individuated) leads to the Soul beginning to think for itself, and thus additionally question its previous "˜assumptions' about the structure of its own reality, and by extension, the reality of its birth society, and then even the structure of the Cosmos itself.  It is inevitable that the Soul also begins to question its assumptions about its preconceived notions of relationship, and how it should act within and response to a relationship with others.
However, if the Soul's attempt to understand life in a metaphysical, philosophical and spiritual context is not aligned with natural law, outside of specific belief systems, then that could lead to a distorted belief system.


  As they begin to succeed in their search, the individuating Soul will have a sense of "˜feeling different' deep within them self.  However, this sense of "˜difference' can easily lead to a sense of alienation and insecurity, since security is produced through self-consistency, which is itself provided by a sense of constancy of the past (leading into the present).  This could very well cause the Soul to "˜swing to the other extreme' and no longer seek to attempt to define itself through relationships with others (distortion: 7th House) as it feels the increasing need to isolate itself due to its differences.  Or, due to that security which is provided through its belief system, the Soul may not listen to any belief or idea which conflicts with its new belief structure (distortion: 9th South Node), and in so doing drive away the very relationships that it seeks.  If the belief system becomes static and unchanging, and the Soul comes to believe itself to have a unique understanding of The Truth, then it will only recognize those beliefs which concur with its own, and thus only accept relationships with those others who already agree with the Soul's steadily "˜hardening' belief system.

  Also, another potential downfall within this particular archetype is the possibility of an involvement in too many relationships (7th House), being subjected to too many differing viewpoints, which can lead to the opposite intent, which is that of a Soul losing touch with its own unique individuality (1st Individuated) and its own belief system (9th South Node).
This could unfortunately also have the possible side-effect of a compulsive dependence on the opinions and advice of others, and may even in extreme cases lead to the Soul's substitution of the understandings and beliefs (9th House) of others concerning their own self and life-purpose as its own.  This would then lead to the inability of the Soul to relate to itself without relating to others, and so a feeling of being uncomfortable while being alone will arise (distortion: 7th House).

  Also, since the old comforts of the consensus reality can still seem "˜attractive' (but will no longer truly satisfy the Soul), the Soul may mimic the outward forms of the consensus reality in an attempt at appearing "˜normal.'  Even though this is only a surface compensation, it can have the unwanted side-effect of attracting exactly the consensus-level relationships (7th House) from which the Soul is trying to distance itself (1st Individuated).

  Additionally, this form of compensation can produce a very intense feeling of "˜living a lie', even while the Soul is trying to uncover the truth, and this can itself lead to a sense of being perpetually misunderstood.  This could possibly lead right into an additional downfall of this type (7th House Pluto), which is a subconscious attraction and dependence upon powerful people with perceived stability and "˜inside information' about the Truth (9th House).  Since this Soul is already seeking answers (1st Individuated), and is additionally seeking a diversity of relationships (7th House), it is susceptible to having its belief system (9th House) become "˜high-jacked' by such a charismatic individual who will provide direction and life-purpose to the confused and questioning Soul.


  However, this sense of otherness, exacerbated from the tension generated through "˜living a lie' even while seeking the truth, will itself accelerate the developing search for truth.  A "˜truth' which will no longer be exclusive as embedded within the truth of the consensus, but will instead be inclusive as reflective of the truth of the various peoples on the entire planet.
  If the Soul can retain its evolutionary impulse and direction in its search for truth (1st Individuated) through a diversity of relationships (7th House) in a philosophical and metaphysical way (9th House), and if the Soul is able to navigate through these distortions and downfalls, then an understanding of the unique parameters of the Soul's own innate individuality will eventually be provided by understanding itself (1st Individuated) through these very relationships (7th House).  This will then allow the individual to begin to learn to truly hear others' representation of reality, and this acceptance of differing points of view will lead to a deeper understanding of the inherent relativity of all human nature, which will possibly lead to the Soul attempting to unite that "˜newly defined' self with others (7th House) and with the Cosmos (9th House).

  Thus, the lessons of a Pluto Seventh House Soul will eventually lead to the Soul's ability to provide for others' needs from the point of view of those other's own reality, which will cause the Soul to develop an equal participation through true balance in many differing types of relationships, with the Soul learning along the way to be neither subservient nor dominant.  Additionally, if the Soul is able to move past its self-limiting belief structure, discarding generalizations and the sense of having the only "˜handle on the Truth', then they may begin to view the Cosmos as it actually is, through Natural Law which is independent of any particular belief system.



  The "˜way out' of these downfalls/shortcomings/distortions, in order to change these existing patterns and so continue the Soul's evolution, is to move in the direction of the Pluto Polarity Point, which will reflect the necessary evolutionary requirements which this Soul needs to develop.


Rad

Hi Bradley,

Quote

So, when I thought about the s.n 9th/ruler 11, it was relatively easy to see how these roles may have played out: What facilitated the developement of these learning experiences in relationships?
-because pluto is in the seventh, I was inclined to see that the soul wanted to be liked and found comradship in a group(s.n.ruler 11th) that helped develop these new ideas/visions/life philosophies(s.n. 9th)
Now, when I take that same concept to the n.n. 3rd and ruler of 4th-it is so much easier to reverse the two-so, I'm saying that it is easier to imagine that development of emotional security leading into the ability of being able to ask the right questions and have the deeper conversations which lead to coming into one's own place with "all this".
But I feel like it should be "how would she/he develop their ability to question and communicate about these new perspectives on life?-by going deep within his/her self and feeling out what really hits home for her/him.
Does my question make sense, this is the part I am confused on.

Can you try to rephrase or reword your question and/or what you are confused about ? I got a little 'confused' reading the above ..sorry.


Rad

Rad

Stephen,

SIMPLY EXCEPTIONAL WORK !!!

Rad