checking my understanding of the Evolutionary States/Conditions

[bluesky]

Hi Ellen,

I'm assuming you self-identify as a 1st spiritual. To that end, here is a brief quote from EA astrologer Maurice Fernandez (from his latest book) - it is a small excerpt from the section on evolutionary stages (in this case, 1st spiritual). (I really hope he doesn't mind!):

"Questions about relinquishing a "regular job" are likely to arise because less meaning is found in a traditional vocation. Yet remaining involved in the everyday world can serve its purpose, especially for the sake of integrating spiritual values into the modern world and testing one's capacity to remain spiritually centered in the midst of daily struggles. At some point, the time may be right to transition to a spiritually oriented profession that is more in tune with one's values."

[Steve]

I don't mean to be impertinent here, but can I just say "MONEY"... What a nightmare!  But I'm curious about this.  The old ways/motivations don't sustain.  Yet there is still the need to make a living.  Because the old ways/motivations don't sustain, it is hard (it is for me, anyway) to channel one's energies into the task of making a living.  I am saying this from the perspective of having worked in the health care industry for many years and seeing how the profit motive has really become the motivating factor.  We - those of us doing the frontline work (I work as a nursing asst/medical secretary) - are really struggling.  I actually finally gave my notice recently and will soon be unemployed.  At the same time I understand that life is taking me in a new direction, which I have not yet discovered yet.  I also recognize that it is easy to let fear rule the day.  Anyway, curious how others have reconciled this.
Peace,
Ellen   

Hi Ellen

Of all the things that can make us feel insecure, lack of money is really high on the list.  For myself I found it worked best to transition to heart work rather than taking big leaps, which I had tried previously.  I used to be an MIS manager.  I left the computer realm and moved west ten years ago.  To summarize, I found the skills I had learned were still of value to others.  I was shown different ways to put them together.  The first was that I had to approach doing computer work strictly as an act of service, offering skills I knew how to do to others who didn't have those skills and could benefit from what I as a conscientious, client-oriented person bring in from my experience.

It took me 5 - 7 years to make the transition.  Today I do EA work and also a lot of web development.  It's all done out of my home.  I live simply and keep my focus on being of service.

If you think about it (perhaps you already have) you could find ways you could use the skills you've developed in healthcare, putting them together in new ways.  It would be you and no overhead and no organization.  It comes down to getting known and trusted, which takes some time, sometimes a few years.   From that base you can also expand out into more heart centered work that speaks to your spiritual calling, that feels like Soul work.  I can assure you that consumers of healthcare services are as burned out on the present industry as you are.  There is a great response today to people providing services based on heart, integrity, fairness, and client comes first attitudes.
Steve

[Elen]

Hi Ellen,

I'm assuming you self-identify as a 1st spiritual. To that end, here is a brief quote from EA astrologer Maurice Fernandez (from his latest book) - it is a small excerpt from the section on evolutionary stages (in this case, 1st spiritual). (I really hope he doesn't mind!):

"Questions about relinquishing a "regular job" are likely to arise because less meaning is found in a traditional vocation. Yet remaining involved in the everyday world can serve its purpose, especially for the sake of integrating spiritual values into the modern world and testing one's capacity to remain spiritually centered in the midst of daily struggles. At some point, the time may be right to transition to a spiritually oriented profession that is more in tune with one's values."

Hi bluesky,

Thanks so much for sharing this quote.  I agree with it.  It is true that there is a part of me that would like to just go to some isolated spot and meditate.  There is also a part of me that would simply like to be of simple service to others in some way.  The part of the quote that I put in bold is especially interesting to me.  This has been my dilemma for a number of years now - it used to be POSSIBLE to do this in the health care industry - and I think the mainstream world generally.  Work used to be just that - a place to "test one's capacity to remain spiritually centered [I would frame that as "service-oriented"] in the midst of daily struggles."  But today's corporocracy and relentless profit motive have changed things so much.  It's not your routine, run of the mill daily struggle anymore.  I finally had to throw in the towel.  My BODY was saying "No" to it in so many ways.  Life was becoming more and more of a grind -like an endless series of impossible catch 22's.  Ah, life!

Peace to you,
Ellen

[Elen]

I don't mean to be impertinent here, but can I just say "MONEY"... What a nightmare!  But I'm curious about this.  The old ways/motivations don't sustain.  Yet there is still the need to make a living.  Because the old ways/motivations don't sustain, it is hard (it is for me, anyway) to channel one's energies into the task of making a living.  I am saying this from the perspective of having worked in the health care industry for many years and seeing how the profit motive has really become the motivating factor.  We - those of us doing the frontline work (I work as a nursing asst/medical secretary) - are really struggling.  I actually finally gave my notice recently and will soon be unemployed.  At the same time I understand that life is taking me in a new direction, which I have not yet discovered yet.  I also recognize that it is easy to let fear rule the day.  Anyway, curious how others have reconciled this.
Peace,
Ellen    

Hi Ellen

Of all the things that can make us feel insecure, lack of money is really high on the list.  For myself I found it worked best to transition to heart work rather than taking big leaps, which I had tried previously.  I used to be an MIS manager.  I left the computer realm and moved west ten years ago.  To summarize, I found the skills I had learned were still of value to others.  I was shown different ways to put them together.  The first was that I had to approach doing computer work strictly as an act of service, offering skills I knew how to do to others who didn't have those skills and could benefit from what I as a conscientious, client-oriented person bring in from my experience.

It took me 5 - 7 years to make the transition.  Today I do EA work and also a lot of web development.  It's all done out of my home.  I live simply and keep my focus on being of service.

If you think about it (perhaps you already have) you could find ways you could use the skills you've developed in healthcare, putting them together in new ways.  It would be you and no overhead and no organization.  It comes down to getting known and trusted, which takes some time, sometimes a few years.   From that base you can also expand out into more heart centered work that speaks to your spiritual calling, that feels like Soul work.  I can assure you that consumers of healthcare services are as burned out on the present industry as you are.  There is a great response today to people providing services based on heart, integrity, fairness, and client comes first attitudes.
Steve

Hi Steve,

Thanks for this.  Yes, that is my desire - to be of service in some way (since I can't retreat to the mountain top.... actually, my desire for retreat has a lot to do with my frustrated desire to be of service...).  I think the trick for me is going to be to trust.  It is hard for me not to know how it will all play out (lots of Capricorn).  But I am very intentionally NOT working out "the plan", because I know that comes from fear.  Thanks for saying that money is high on the list of causes of insecurity.  It is huge for me.  Yet at the same time, I have been blessed in life (I haven't yet been fully able to let myself TRUST this) in that, while I've never been rich and always kind of lived by the seat of my pants financially-speaking, I've ALWAYS had what I needed and somehow always MAGICALLY have the money I need for the BIG things that I really want to do, ie, LEARN...

Peace and gratitude,
Ellen

[mountainheather]

Hi Adina,  thank you for your responses to my posts.  I am a bit shy to ask the endless number of questions that come to mind, but the warmth and sharing here is steady and true, and very encouraging.

I am very interested in understanding the idea that even incarnating is a separating desire.  Why do our souls want to separate from the creator? isn't that the big illusion, that we only think we are separate, but we aren't really. I know this is probably unanswerable but I can't help wanting to know... is that the whole point of having the bottom line of the astrology chart to decipher our little part of it?


My 9 year old son asked me "what are people for?" ....I didn't have an answer .... but I've been  holding  that question in my mind and heart a lot lately and it seems relevant.

I do have more questions about evolutionary states, so I hope this thread can continue!

Thanks to you all for sharing,  Heather

[Wendy]

What an insightful, beautiful, and profound question your son asked? 

[Lucius]

Yes, I like that question your son asked!

I just thought I'd pop in - we didn't create the separation or chose to separate.  The source itself separates us from itself - that's it's decision.  I think about these questions only to accept that it's unfathomable why.  We're playing a game but we didn't make up the rules, you can play well or poorly.  We are limited by our human form and ego - I think the soul's perspective is vastly different, so our ego's wonder, 'why, why?' but our soul is so much vaster. 

I think there is a natural acceptance and enjoyment of process - that is reflected in natural law.  Hard to say 'why' though.  Like a child could die when it's five - and never experience a full life, but that is not satisfying to us, or most of us at any rate, is it?  We like to see the growing, flowering and a quality of fruition. I apply that to the growth of the soul even if in the end it simply comes back to 'ground zero' - Source...

I think literally the term 'Maya' means 'manifesting the unmanifest'. 

Hope this helps - but, probably not!  I know how frustrating those 'why' questions are! 

[Dhyana]

This just feels so fitting to add right now.


...kinda like a PSS to my last post on this thread  -- the gift and  ability to bear the unbearable when following the intention of Soul

... as we move through the stages ~


http://www.youtube.com/user/itisnowforever#p/a/u/1/AVx6H68Siww

Real Peace
Dhyana

[Elen]

The 1st spiritual in hiding, I was thinking, was MAKING HERSELF SMALL so as not to bring upon her more persecution, and she was doing this instinctually, not consciously.

Consider it might be the other way around - The Soul is already feeling small.  It creates a situation in which that inner sense of feeling small can manifest as exactly that, which further reinforces the sense of feeling small.  Remember that the whole point of the feeling small is to enforce a sense of humility.  Thus in some ways the entire circumstance could have been created as a way to humiliate, thus further humble, the Soul.  This is Virgo stuff, and 1st stage Spiritual is a Virgo-like archetype.

Hi Steve,

I just wanted to make the observation that this seems like a really tricky path (again, thinking of my own experiences with this) and also ask what the real intention of Virgo is (I've gone over the archetypes but I seem to always get bogged down in the "negative" manifestations of Virgo and so don't feel I have a clear understanding of the "positive" side).  Humility (real humility) is not the same as self-deprecation, right?  Yet Virgo often seems to manifest this way.  Self-deprecation will definitely reinforce the feelings of being small, but not in a healthy way, right?  But is even this unhealthy manifestation of Virgo part of the process?  I mean, it does seem like it - this experience of relentless self-criticism/deprecation - forces the person into the arms of the Creator, so to speak.  I am curious about your perspective on this - what EA has to say about Virgo and its manifestation of self-deprecation (false humility?).  If the Garden of Eden story gives rise to and explains the negative manifestation, how can we see through/beyond/beneath/etc. this story and archetype to the healthy manifestation?  Also, in keeping with this thread, does its manifestation change as one evolves through the stages?

Peace,
Ellen

[Lucius]

I second all your questions, Ellen! 

Having the sun in virgo & growing up with the classic descriptions in virgo I have always felt a bit let down when on one hand you have this beautiful imagery and the other it says:  'makes a good secretary'.   

I think of the natural archetype of virgo, at it's core, as a priestess.  It's the humbling to allow room for the vastness outside your ego & known world.  The priestess makes the effort to recognize the divine and spiritual in every small aspect of their daily lives.  Looking at the historical accounts of priestesses they frequently had many 'mundane' duties each day - but, with the proper virgo spirit these duties are transformed.  During the course of their lives of dedication, for instance, Inanna, they would slowly purify themselves and become closer to the goddess they served.  I think of Mercury's rulership of virgo as being more of a messenger betweeen soul and 'spirit' or the various worlds.  Mercury being, aside from Persephone who is frequently the 'model' for virgo, the only god who can go between the worlds effortlessly.  I've found it interesting that in some artistic depictions of the virgin mary & gabriel he is, of course, winged but also frequently has a cadusceus (spelling that wrong!).  I've always thought of mary, of course, 'virgin' and gabriel as a mercury figure.   I also think of Ariadne, who in some myths become the constellation Virgo and Dionysus.  In the celtic pantheon you have Rosmerta & Mercury.

I think when you have the feminine, the earth, sexuality and 'mundane' aspects of life denigrated you find some pretty neurotic virgos!  Virgo, also, is the 'shadow' of the pisces age. 

There is a recent book titled 'portrait of a priestess' which is great, good for actual historical detail into the lives of ancient greek priestesses.  So, anyway, that's the symbolic, archetypal nexus I associate with virgo.

I've found a healthy sense of humor, of the laugh at oneself quality, is helpful for virgo (Sag. square) but in general masochism which is connected to the degradation of the earth, etc. that fuels the patriarchal idea of 'pie in the sky' and that we are inherently sinful or the idea (talked of earlier in the thread) that we separated ourselves from Spirit - way too much volition and creativity is given to humans and it's not a very humble idea, that we have the power to do that - we did not separate ourselves Spirit did.  Over time we can choose to separate permanently, or however permanent it would be, via choosing evil or we choose to merge back to Spirit - but, we didn't put the 'game' in motion.  Look to partriarchal unnatural ideas to find the source of masochism and unnatural guilt - thus, the problems with virgo, again virgo is 'in the shadow' of pisces.  And I think patriarchal realities are tied to pisces in that sense of being disconnected from earth and having projected all divinity 'outside' and assuming all guilt for a theologically 'fallen' state. 

This has gotten too long!  I'm looking forward to Steve and Adina's thoughts!

Hope this helps.

[Steve]

Hi Ellen (and Lucius)

I just wanted to make the observation that this seems like a really tricky path (again, thinking of my own experiences with this) and also ask what the real intention of Virgo is (I've gone over the archetypes but I seem to always get bogged down in the "negative" manifestations of Virgo and so don't feel I have a clear understanding of the "positive" side).  Humility (real humility) is not the same as self-deprecation, right?  Yet Virgo often seems to manifest this way.  Self-deprecation will definitely reinforce the feelings of being small, but not in a healthy way, right?  But is even this unhealthy manifestation of Virgo part of the process?  I mean, it does seem like it - this experience of relentless self-criticism/deprecation - forces the person into the arms of the Creator, so to speak.  I am curious about your perspective on this - what EA has to say about Virgo and its manifestation of self-deprecation (false humility?).  If the Garden of Eden story gives rise to and explains the negative manifestation, how can we see through/beyond/beneath/etc. this story and archetype to the healthy manifestation?  Also, in keeping with this thread, does its manifestation change as one evolves through the stages?

What you are writing about goes back to the patriarchal conception of God as perfect versus the EA/natural conception of God as imperfect, as an evolving force that is seeking its perfection.

As Wolf said many times, why would a perfect God create anything at all?  What would be the point? 

The root of conditioned (learned) guilt is that we are not perfect enough.  This is what the patriarchal religions have taught for thousands of years.  Guilt is a very effective way to control people.

Look around you.  How much perfection do you see on this planet?  Even in nature there are imperfections from our ideas of what the perfect tree, plant, animal should look like.  Small flaws here and there.  There is nothing perfect.  Yet we have bought into the idea that unless I do something perfectly it is not good enough, and I am not good enough.  These things are the conditioned Virgo.  This stuff exists on up into at least 1st stage Spiritual.

The natural or unconditioned Virgo is the acceptance of imperfection.  You are still aware of what you (Virgo) lack, and what you need to improve.  But instead of beating self up about one's failings, you realize that you are supposed to be where you find yourself. My intention is to to self-improve (Virgo).  It is not a failing that I am imperfect, but part of the intended plan.  Intentions count - I strive to self-improve step-by-step (Virgo), little by little.  A key natural Virgo archetype is The Value is in the Effort.  Over time effort leads to change and self-improvement. 

That is a huge difference from the conditioned guilt-ridden masochistic patriarchal Virgo. 

There is a natural self-deprecation, where one is aware of their limits, the foibles of life in human form.  Its taken with a sense of humor.  That is natural humility.  Self-deprecation based on "I am worthless", or inadequate is something else altogether - masochism.  That is pathology, not humility.

I'd say the manifestation changes as one goes through the stages, yes.  Consensus is going to accept the patriarchal guilt-laden Virgo archetypes.   Individuated will be intellectually in rebellion against that while still accepting portions of it emotionally, which they will tend to deny (Virgo).  Could even build a cover ego, as rebellion and/or compensation.  Spiritual state will begin accepting the natural imperfections in divinity - we can't be any more perfect that that which created us.  Thus coming to accept the limitations.  That being the bridge back from conditioned Virgo to natural Virgo.

The natural humility activates the natural Virgo qualities of 1st stage spiritual - to feel small - feeling small not making one feel inadequate but seeing it as acknowledgment of who one actually is, a small player in a vast cosmic drama.  The desire to self-improve, the desire to serve and heal others, as expression of that spiritual impulse and devotional orientation.

I think the essence of the archetypes is more or less in what I wrote here.  For myself I find it best to go first to the core. After understanding the core I can look at manifestations, like the priestesses Lucius discussed, to see how they are actualizing the core archetypes. 

Hope this is useful
Steve

[Elen]

Thank you so much, Lucius!

[Elen]

There is a natural self-deprecation, where one is aware of their limits, the foibles of life in human form.  Its taken with a sense of humor.  That is natural humility.  Self-deprecation based on "I am worthless", or inadequate is something else altogether - masochism.  That is pathology, not humility.

This is just a comment that I was going to include in my original post but decided not to.  The above quote nails it on the head for me re: this story.  The Catholic parish my family belonged to when I was growing up was called St. Alphonsus.  The teaching was relentlessly judgmental.  The "fruit" was that so long as you believed yourself to be a terrible, horrible person, and denied yourself completely, you would be "loved" and "accepted".  (Interestingly, I sort of see this playing out often in the corporate world.)  Some years ago, when I was waking up to all this, I checked out a biography of St. Alphonsus.  "Self-deprecation based on 'I am worthless', or inadequate" was THE theme of his life.  It was an eye-opening experience for me to read this.  It really helped me "claim" that this really did happen.  It's all so subtle, if only because it is so much the norm today.  Pluto/Uranus/Virgo 12th.  I guess this is what's up for me in this life....

Ellen



Hope this is useful

Yes, very useful.  Thank you!
Steve

[Elen]

PS  I just wanted to say that I don't want to be dismissive of the truly saintly quality of the life of St. Alphonsus himself.  I felt that that was also true about his life.  But as is often the case, the "saintliness" of things get distorted.  Also, I do recognize that I resonated to this distortion and thus experienced it in this life.

[Elen]

This just feels so fitting to add right now.


...kinda like a PSS to my last post on this thread  -- the gift and  ability to bear the unbearable when following the intention of Soul

... as we move through the stages ~


http://www.youtube.com/user/itisnowforever#p/a/u/1/AVx6H68Siww

Real Peace
Dhyana

Hi Dhyana,

This video is quite beautiful.  Thanks for sharing it. 

Ellen