Birth Time question

[PamS]

Hi All,

I have a client October 3rd 1951 born in Tel Aviv, she does not have a birth time except late eveningish.  I have the pluto questions that Jeffrey has for finding a Pluto placement.... but I was wondering if there would be a specific transit that I could also look at to help figure this quandary out?  Any body have any ideas on that?  I just feel doing a noon chart is not deep enough ......  My only intuition is that she told me it was her job to take care of the family and that she lives a life where her interority is the most important part of her life, she is an accomplished artist and a professional mediator....
The chart that feels right is one where Pluto, Mars, Venus and SN all in a stellium in the 4th....  SN in Virgo- Mercury in Libra in the 5th (balsamic) conjunt Saturn and Sun.. Should I just trust my intuition?  

Thank you,

pam

[Upasika]

Hi All,

I have a client October 3rd 1951 born in Tel Aviv, she does not have a birth time except late eveningish.  I have the pluto questions that Jeffrey has for finding a Pluto placement.... but I was wondering if there would be a specific transit that I could also look at to help figure this quandary out?  Any body have any ideas on that?  I just feel doing a noon chart is not deep enough ......  My only intuition is that she told me it was her job to take care of the family and that she lives a life where her interority is the most important part of her life, she is an accomplished artist and a professional mediator....
The chart that feels right is one where Pluto, Mars, Venus and SN all in a stellium in the 4th....  SN in Virgo- Mercury in Libra in the 5th (balsamic) conjunt Saturn and Sun.. Should I just trust my intuition? 

Thank you,

pam

Hi Pam,

I'm not sure how helpful this would be for you, but there is a program called Jigsaw where you can input a list of major events in a person's life and it checks for transits, progressions, tertiary directions and solar arcs occurring during their life and works backwards with the timing of those and the timing of the person's life events to come up with a prioritised list of most likely birth times.

It works best for people who have had first saturn return (time to have had enough life events). I've used it quite a few times and where there were a good number of quality events it has given good results. I tested it on my birth time (which I knew within an hour and a half) and it gave a most likely birth time that was very close to the time I was already using, and had been working very well to transits and progressions for some time).

The event times can be exact and place helps although not necessary, but the event times can also be "sometime" within up to a 2 month period, so its quite flexible. Thought I'd mention this as unknown birthtimes are always on the cards, and if you have clients then a little program like this may be useful. Let me know if you're interested and I'll fish out the url.

Also I'd be keen to know how to get Jeffrey's list of questions for deciding on the Pluto placement - if you could help me with that would be great.

blessings, Upasika

[PamS]

Hello Upssika,

Thank you so much for that jigsaw info, that sounds what I was looking for.... .... I will look it up asap...

Here is what I have that I downloaded from an old EA board.....  I am not sure exactly who wrote this, maybe Steve can remember...

thanks again for the help!

blessings,

pam






Pluto in HOUSE 1. Do you feel you have a special destiny to achieve, meaning something out of the ordinary? The related question, do you have an inner resistance to completing yourself in relationship? (Why? There has been a whole prior life background of essential independence.) There are other questions you could ask. You could ask the polarity point questions.

Pluto in HOUSE 2. Do you feel that you are fundamentally self contained. Do you feel that you are fundamentally able to identify and meet your own needs?

Pluto in HOUSE 3. Do you feel that you have a fundamental curiosity to understand the nature of life, that curiosity primarily manifesting at an intellectual level? As an example, do you feel you have a compulsion to read many, many books, and yet your tendency being to read three or four pages in each book and not the whole book? Do you feel that your mind is simply a roller coaster brain of competing perspectives, the roller coaster or roll x-carts generating competing perspectives. The polarity point question would be, do you feel that you are trying to find that
one philosophical system that puts it all together for you?

Pluto in HOUSE 4. Do you feel that you are born with fundamental insecurity at a compulsive level? Do you feel that you had parents that were unable to understand the nature of your emotional needs, and therefore the nature of nurturing accordingly? Do you feel that you have a problem identifying with traditional gender role assignment? Do you feel in your intimate relationships that at times you have problems with what we can call pathological jealousy that is quite different than normal jealousy. Pathological jealousy is demonstrated in O.J. Simpson, meaning a person that can never let go.

Pluto in HOUSE 5. Do you feel that you are the center of your own universe? Do you unconsciously expect all things to revolve around you? Do you feel you have a bottomless pit in terms of the need to receive positive feedback for whatever your efforts may be?

Pluto in HOUSE 6. Do you feel that you have a problem with a core feeling of fundamental inadequacy? An inner feeling that you are not good enough to do what your higher mind suggests is possible to do? This becomes the basis of compulsive excuse-making, which sounds like rational reasons. Do you feel you have a problem with priority confusions? Do you feel you have a compulsion to make crisis out of thin air? Do you feel the emphasis in your consciousness is left brain analytical thought processes? Do you feel that you are plagued by personal doubt? Do you feel that you are your own worst enemy?

Pluto in HOUSE 7. Do you have a compulsive need to be needed? Do you feel you have a lesson in terms of learning when to give and when not to give, and more importantly, how to receive? Do you feel you have problems in codependency in relationship? Do you feel you have problems in projection in relationship (either one or both partners compulsively projecting their subjective reality on one another)?

Pluto in HOUSE 8. Do you feel you are born with fundamental emotional fears of betrayal, emotional fears of loss, emotional fears of abandonment, impacting on your ability to trust? Do you feel that you crawled out of the womb asking why, i.e. do you feel that you psychoanalyze yourself to the point of tears, and psychoanalyze everyone else to the point of tears? Do you feel that you are an inherently suspicious person? Do you feel that you have an awareness of larger forces in the universe that you cannot control?

Pluto in HOUSE 9. Do you feel that you have been asking giant questions for lifetimes, why life, why death, how do I fit into the cosmos? Do you have an element in your consciousness that just knows what it knows without knowing how it knows it? Meaning, do you feel the strength of your Soul is intuitive? Are you born with a fundamental restlessness? For an individuated or spiritual person the question becomes, do you feel that you have a core alienation from society? Do you feel that you have a need to understand yourself in cosmological terms?

Pluto in HOUSE 10. Do you feel that you are born with a core sense of guilt that you can no longer define? Do you feel that you have a tremendous standard of inner judgment, which equals becoming your own worst enemy? Do you feel you have a fundamental fear of losing control? Do you have a need to be recognized by society? A related question in the individuated and spiritual state. Are you having problems in gender assignment (consensusly defined)? Was there a power problem with one or both parents?

Pluto in HOUSE 11. Were you born with a fundamental feeling of being inherently different than most other people? A related question, not knowing quite where to fit, in society's terms? Do you feel you are born with an inherent capacity to innovate? Do you feel you are born with major lessons in terms of who is a friend and who is not? Do you have a consciousness that is naturally constructed to promote social orders that are more equitable for all concerned, meaning natural humanitarian? That will exist even in the consensus state. Lyndon Johnson had an 11th house
Pluto, Bill Clinton has an 11th house Pluto.

Pluto in HOUSE 12. Fundamental question, is your deepest fear falling into the great, great inner abyss? Do you feel you are born with a core of ideals that are continually frustrated? Were you born with no clear sense of boundaries between where you start and something else starts around you? Do you have a fundamental fear of going crazy or insane? Do you have an inner feeling of being in a prison, in which there is no way out?

[Upasika]

Hi Pam,

Here's the website: http://www.esotech.com.au/products/jigsaw.html

... and thanks heaps for the questions !

[PamS]

Thank you too...

alais i have mac, but will try and figure something out!!!

blessings,

pam

[Upasika]

Hi Pam,

They can probably help you. I've cut and pasted their answer to the same question someone asked them for Solar Fire, and it is probably just as applicable to Jigsaw, but you could email them and check if you were in doubt .. support@esotech.com.au

... hope you can get something sorted out ! Upasika


Can I use Solar Fire Gold on my Mac?


For anyone who is curious we have Solar Fire and Windows running on a Macbook laptop here using Bootcamp and it works great. There are also a couple of other options besides Bootcamp that I mention below.

Bootcamp is included on new intel OS-X macs and there are installation instructions in the macintosh help, search for bootcamp in the help, or look here,
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Boot_Camp_Install-Setup.pdf

It's easy in fact to make a windows partition and you can change your mind later and easily take windows off again in a couple of minutes. Windows on Bootcamp runs as fast or faster than a regular PC.

The only issue is that you will probably want a mouse with two buttons on it.

Here is a link to a free program that will allow you to right click with the apple mouse using the option (control) key,
http://www.geocities.com/pronto4u/applemouse.html
This works unless you need to control-click and drag all at the same time.
I plug in a PC USB mouse most of the time anyway because I love my mouse wheel.

On the windows keyboard there is a delete key and a backspace key and they do different things, but the delete key on the Mac keyboard acts like a backspace key only. I recommend you get some keyboard hot key program and reprogram the right hand command key to be a windows delete key, here's the free software called Keytweak that I used,
http://webpages.charter.net/krumsick/
If you use this program then click on button #62 and change it to say 'del' The command key by the way is the same as the windows key in windows.

In addition to Bootcamp there's also software called 'Parallels' that lets you run windows inside of a window on the Mac desktop. Some of our customers use this. This is also fast from what I hear. If you use parallels the only proviso is don't enable 'shared files' or Solar Fire Gold won't be able to find it's user files.
http://www.parallels.com/

There's also a free emulation software sponsored by Sun Microsystems called 'Virtual Box' that is fairly fast and lets you set up windows inside of a file on your hard disk so you can run windows on the mac desktop. I have tried this and it works pretty well. This is a little harder to set up than parallels probably, but not really hard.
Virtual box will also work on Linux.
http://www.virtualbox.org/

All of these windows options isolate the windows environment from the Mac environment so viruses can't jump from one side to the other side.

All of these also require that you have a Windows disk and a license key (serial number) that you are not currently using somewhere else. An old disk from an old derelict computer should work. Solar Fire will work on any windows from windows 98SE onwards so you can use an old version of windows with Virtual Box or Parallels.

The Virtual Box emulator I mentioned above wants XP or Vista it will work with older windows but doesn't have drivers for hi res video. I used this video driver to load Windows ME and Solar Fire on Virtual Box
http://www.geocities.com/bearwindows/vbe9x.htm


With Bootcamp you need a full version of windows XP or Vista. If you have an upgrade version you can't eject the CD while windows is installing to insert the older windows CD like it asks you to. However if you have an external CD you can insert both CD's at the same time and it will work. Put the older windows disk in the external CD drive and just press enter when the windows install asks you to insert the old cd.

By the way, Bootcamp will make a windows partition and format it for you, but you still have to let the windows install program format it again or it won't install properly. If you don't use windows much then let it make the default small sized Fat32 partition (which OS-X can also use). But if you use windows a lot you might want to make a bigger partition and let windows format it with ntfs.

[Dhyana]

HI PAM. COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHERE TO FIND THOSE PLUTO QUESTIONS TO WHICH YOU REFER TO BY JEFFREY GREEN.  I HAVE A CHART I AM DOING AND I AM TRYING TO RECTIFY THE TIME AS WELL.

MUCH THANKS
DHYANA (A NEW POSTER)

[PamS]

Hi Dhyana,

Like I said I got them off on an old EA message board, they might be in the message board archives, but I do not know, you would have to search it....  also ** note, i am not sure if jeffrey wrote these or a graduate from his school.. all I know is I got this off an official EA board with Jeffery as moderator years ago... I do remember Jeffrey talking about questions in reguards to finding out Pluto Placements....

so sorry I cant be of more help....

blessings

pam

[Tory]

Hi All,

I have a client October 3rd 1951 born in Tel Aviv, she does not have a birth time except late eveningish.  I have the pluto questions that Jeffrey has for finding a Pluto placement.... but I was wondering if there would be a specific transit that I could also look at to help figure this quandary out?  Any body have any ideas on that?  I just feel doing a noon chart is not deep enough ......  My only intuition is that she told me it was her job to take care of the family and that she lives a life where her interority is the most important part of her life, she is an accomplished artist and a professional mediator....
The chart that feels right is one where Pluto, Mars, Venus and SN all in a stellium in the 4th....  SN in Virgo- Mercury in Libra in the 5th (balsamic) conjunt Saturn and Sun.. Should I just trust my intuition? 

Thank you,

pam

Hi Pam,

I'm not sure how helpful this would be for you, but there is a program called Jigsaw where you can input a list of major events in a person's life and it checks for transits, progressions, tertiary directions and solar arcs occurring during their life and works backwards with the timing of those and the timing of the person's life events to come up with a prioritised list of most likely birth times.

It works best for people who have had first saturn return (time to have had enough life events). I've used it quite a few times and where there were a good number of quality events it has given good results. I tested it on my birth time (which I knew within an hour and a half) and it gave a most likely birth time that was very close to the time I was already using, and had been working very well to transits and progressions for some time).

The event times can be exact and place helps although not necessary, but the event times can also be "sometime" within up to a 2 month period, so its quite flexible. Thought I'd mention this as unknown birthtimes are always on the cards, and if you have clients then a little program like this may be useful. Let me know if you're interested and I'll fish out the url.

Also I'd be keen to know how to get Jeffrey's list of questions for deciding on the Pluto placement - if you could help me with that would be great.

blessings, Upasika

Dear One and All,
I am looking for an EA astrologer to do my chart rectification (unknown birth time) with Jigsaw, by e-mail or skype please.

I am fascinated by EA and am wanting to go deeper, hence the critical need to work out birth time, also i am currently no doubt in the midst of some very important transits accentuating this need.
I have a see-saw chart with True Node (0°), Mercury (1°), Chiron (3°),  Sun (10°), Venus (23°) Saturn (26°) in Aries and Moon (16°), Pluto (23°), Jupiter (29°) in Virgo, Uranus 1° Libra.

I am fairly new to EA and yet have spent a lot of time looking at this but would appreciate working with someone objectively. Steve's questions and comments for Pluto placement are helpful and in that case i think i have an 8th house Pluto, but there are days when i swing from 7th to 11th (including the houses in-between). I would so appreciate someon's help!

Love and Light
Tory