EA, Mundane Astrology, and the US Chart

[Daniel]

Hi Rad and EA community,

I would like to reframe my question from a couple of days ago. What is the EA approach to mundane astrology?  Do countries have an evolutionary axis in a way that is similar to people?  Specifically, I am interested in understanding the birth chart of the United States from an EA perspective. Is that something that is within the scope of this mb? TIA.

Prayers for peace,

Daniel

[Rad]

Hi Daniel,

Yes, we can do that here on the mb. Let me know how you want to do this/ proceed. The EA axis does work in country charts. For example, the USA chart starts with a 9th House Pluto in Cap conjunct the S.Node in Aquarius, ruled by Uranus in Gemini in the 1st correlates with the original group of white people coming to that country from Europe because of the religious persecution they were feeling in their homelands. So rebellion against that, and then traveling all the way to the N.American continent in order to start their own religious communities. Just a simple example to illustrate that, yes, the EA axis does apply to countries, and the people that make up those countries. Anyway, let me know how you would like to proceed.

God Bless, Rad

[Daniel]

Hi Rad,

Thank you for that very clear insight! It was very helpful for me to begin to understand the US Pluto, or any other country's Pluto.

I am entirely open to suggestions on how to proceed, from you...and anyone else here. My objective is to develop a general outline, a framework that describes the planetary dynamics as they express in any individual national personality, and then using the JWG method of chart interpretation, apply these basic principles developed here to a couple of chart examples. Does that make sense?

These next few years seem to loom large for our country's destiny. Can we gather some of the amazing EA practitioners here in this forum, to contribute as they can?

Blessings and prayers for peace,

Daniel

[Rad]

Hi Daniel,

Sure anyone can join in as they see fit. To me the best way to proceed is to succinctly discuss the core history of any country and correlate that with the symbols in the country's birth chart. This then provides essential context in order to try to understand where any given country is now, and, thus, where it may be headed into it's future.

A simple example of this would be how America was formed around not only it's religion but how that religion was used as rationalizations to make black people slaves, and of course the genocide of the American Indians. The 'doctrine' called manifest destiny being used to do so. This sort of thing is symbolized by the natal Pluto in Capricorn where Capricorn as an archetype correlate with the races of people, and in the 9th with the S.Node in Aquarius, religion, and the N.Node being in Leo: manifest destiny. That N.Node is ruled by the Cancer Sun in the 2nd along with Venus and Jupiter there which correlates with 'owning' people, in this case the blacks as slaves, and taking over the original homeland of the American Indians and calling it their own: manifest destiny.

Now put this context, as well, of the S.Node of it's Moon being conjunct the S.Node of Neptune, and the N.Node of the Moon conjunct the N.Node of Neptune. What does that mean, how does  it add to these facts ? And how do these facts correlate to the present moment in America concerning all the African Americans there now ? The police violence towards them ? What does the future look like because of ? And what about the ongoing treatment of the American Indian on the reservations created for them ?

What about the core of the American economic system that is rooted in capitalism ? American is the most capitalistic country in the world. This is rooted in the same symbolism of the ruler of it's N.Node being in Cancer in the 2nd with Venus and Jupiter. These are ruled by the Moon in Aquarius in the 10th which is also conjunct, by the way, the USA's natal Lucifer. If I remember right right now in American less than one percent of the population control's and owns over 40 percent of it's total wealth. So what is the projected future for America and it's current economic system that creates such extreme imbalances for the majority of it's citizens ?

These is just examples of how we can move this thread forwards.

God bless, Rad

[Daniel]

To me the best way to proceed is to succinctly discuss the core history of any country and correlate that with the symbols in the country's birth chart. This then provides essential context in order to try to understand where any given country is now, and, thus, where it may be headed into it's future.

Yes, the historical context surrounding the birth times, that makes a lot of sense. Perhaps major progressions and transits could then be observed and correlated to the initial planetary assessments as well?

A simple example of this would be how America was formed around not only it's religion but how that religion was used as rationalizations to make black people slaves, and of course the genocide of the American Indians.

Isn't it significant that the original settlers who risked all that they had to escape religious persecution, should turn around to become the persecutors themselves? Could this be the result of SN in Aquarius being in trine to both its ruler(s) Uranus and Saturn? Will this signature show up as the sometimes more reactionary expression of Aquarius? Is the American mindset anchored in subjective ethical judgements?

The 'doctrine' called manifest destiny being used to do so. This sort of thing is symbolized by the natal Pluto in Capricorn where Capricorn as an archetype correlate with the races of people,

Are you saying that because of Capricorn's social dynamic that collectively it correlates to races of people?

and in the 9th with the S.Node in Aquarius, religion, and the N.Node being in Leo: manifest destiny.That N.Node is ruled by the Cancer Sun in the 2nd along with Venus and Jupiter there which correlates with 'owning' people, in this case the blacks as slaves, and taking over the original homeland of the American Indians and calling it their own: manifest destiny.

Sun square Saturn, 5th to 2nd, what mine is mine, and what's yours is mine?

Now put this context, as well, of the S.Node of it's Moon being conjunct the S.Node of Neptune, and the N.Node of the Moon conjunct the N.Node of Neptune. What does that mean, how does  it add to these facts ?

Neptune in Virgo 5th suggests a cultural spiritual angst, divine discontent, that attracts periodic cycles of the crises of collective consciousness. Can we say that Neptune's nodal polarity indicates evolutionary pressure to decondition the centuries old ethical and moral standards; work towards connecting the planet as single community, populated with diverse thought and intellectual dialog? 

And how do these facts correlate to the present moment in America concerning all the African Americans there now ? What about the core of the American economic system that is rooted in capitalism ? American is the most capitalistic country in the world. This is rooted in the same symbolism of the ruler of it's N.Node being in Cancer in the 2nd with Venus and Jupiter. These are ruled by the Moon in Aquarius in the 10th which is also conjunct, by the way, the USA's natal Lucifer. If I remember right right now in American less than one percent of the population control's and owns over 40 percent of it's total wealth. So what is the projected future for America and it's current economic system that creates such extreme imbalances for the majority of it's citizens?

These is just examples of how we can move this thread forwards.

Yes, yes, and yes"¦so, where shall we start with a more thorough analysis of Pluto?

Thank you so much for working through this with me Rad.

Blessings and prayers for peace,

Daniel

[Rad]

Hi Daniel,

To me the best way to proceed is to succinctly discuss the core history of any country and correlate that with the symbols in the country's birth chart. This then provides essential context in order to try to understand where any given country is now, and, thus, where it may be headed into it's future.

Yes, the historical context surrounding the birth times, that makes a lot of sense. Perhaps major progressions and transits could then be observed and correlated to the initial planetary assessments as well?

***********

Yes. Simple example .. reflect on where the Pluto transit has been in the USA birth chart: the 8th House in opposition to all the Cancer planets in the 2nd. In that reflection focus on the underlying economic system of capitalism, and what has, and is, happening within that country because of. The world itself almost had a total economic collapse because of the evil doings of Wall Street. It goes from there. Just one example.

***********

A simple example of this would be how America was formed around not only it's religion but how that religion was used as rationalizations to make black people slaves, and of course the genocide of the American Indians.

Isn't it significant that the original settlers who risked all that they had to escape religious persecution, should turn around to become the persecutors themselves? Could this be the result of SN in Aquarius being in trine to both its ruler(s) Uranus and Saturn? Will this signature show up as the sometimes more reactionary expression of Aquarius? Is the American mindset anchored in subjective ethical judgements?

*********

The original separation of the original white people from Europe, rooted in their sense of religious persecution, reflects an ingrained sense of superiority/ specialness in their 'beliefs': Pluto in the 9th in Capricorn, S.Node in Aquarius in the 9th ruled by a 1st House Uranus in Gemini, the S.Node of Neptune  conjunct that S.Node of the Moon, and it's natal Neptune being in Virgo. Thus, any group of individuals whose beliefs were different than theirs would be judged as inferior and persecuted: Neptune in Virgo. This Neptune is ruled by Mercury in Cancer in the 3rd retrograde that is opposed to the natal Pluto, and that Mercury is ruled by the natal Moon in Aquarius in the 10th which is conjunct Lucifer. Thus, any group of people, and their beliefs, that were different than these original settlers were judged and persecuted as something evil that had to be opposed, isolated, or simply destroyed in order for them to feel secure. The fact that the planetary rulers of Pluto in Cap, Saturn in Libra, and the S.Node of the Moon in Aquarius, Uranus, are trine as you have pointed out simply made it 'easy' to do so: did not even occur to them that they may be wrong in doing this because of their projected 'God' that gave them the 'authority' to do so: Pluto in Capricorn opposed Mercury in Cancer in the 3rd that is ruled by that 10th House Aquarius Moon conjunct Lucifer.

********

The 'doctrine' called manifest destiny being used to do so. This sort of thing is symbolized by the natal Pluto in Capricorn where Capricorn as an archetype correlate with the races of people,

Are you saying that because of Capricorn's social dynamic that collectively it correlates to races of people?

******

Capricorn, the 10th House, and Saturn all correlate to the various races of people as defined by skin colors. The skin correlates to these archetypes as defined by the degree of melanin within the RNA/DNA equaling the genetics of human beings.

************

and in the 9th with the S.Node in Aquarius, religion, and the N.Node being in Leo: manifest destiny.That N.Node is ruled by the Cancer Sun in the 2nd along with Venus and Jupiter there which correlates with 'owning' people, in this case the blacks as slaves, and taking over the original homeland of the American Indians and calling it their own: manifest destiny.

Sun square Saturn, 5th to 2nd, what mine is mine, and what's yours is mine?

**********

Yes, but it goes back to the religion that these original settles 'believed' in .

**************

Now put this context, as well, of the S.Node of it's Moon being conjunct the S.Node of Neptune, and the N.Node of the Moon conjunct the N.Node of Neptune. What does that mean, how does  it add to these facts ?

Neptune in Virgo 5th suggests a cultural spiritual angst, divine discontent, that attracts periodic cycles of the crises of collective consciousness. Can we say that Neptune's nodal polarity indicates evolutionary pressure to decondition the centuries old ethical and moral standards; work towards connecting the planet as single community, populated with diverse thought and intellectual dialog?

************

As an underlying evolutionary need to evolve the answer would be of course be yes. Yet, even as things stand now in that country, there is an existing delusion within the collective consciousness, Neptune, of the American peoples that they believe in which is called "American exceptionalism'. This of course reflects a group of people that thinks of themselves as special, unique, and, as a result, generates the rationalizations and beliefs necessary to dominate the world itself. Reflect on the symbols were are discussing right now and you can see this objectively.

************

And how do these facts correlate to the present moment in America concerning all the African Americans there now ? What about the core of the American economic system that is rooted in capitalism ? American is the most capitalistic country in the world. This is rooted in the same symbolism of the ruler of it's N.Node being in Cancer in the 2nd with Venus and Jupiter. These are ruled by the Moon in Aquarius in the 10th which is also conjunct, by the way, the USA's natal Lucifer. If I remember right right now in American less than one percent of the population control's and owns over 40 percent of it's total wealth. So what is the projected future for America and it's current economic system that creates such extreme imbalances for the majority of it's citizens?

These is just examples of how we can move this thread forwards.

Yes, yes, and yes"¦so, where shall we start with a more thorough analysis of Pluto?

**********

Yes, and the Lunar Nodal Axis with it's planetary rulers.

*************

Thank you so much for working through this with me Rad.

Blessings and prayers for peace,

Daniel

*********

You are welcome Daniel.

God Bless, Rad