Virgo - Understanding the Whole Archetype and its Specific Correlations

[Linda]

I think I understand what you are saying here and if I have I agree.  An "unnatural" expression of Virgo, ie, Virgo expressing within the context of man-made law, could express as "blame" (projecting outward that which is within that is out of alignment with natural law).  Is this correct?

Hi Ellen,

In matriarchal times people lived in harmony and balance, with medicine women (and sometimes men) uncovering the causes of disorders, and treating the whole person holistically.  

The patriarchy and the Garden of Eden myth has brought us many modern diseases, one being man-made guilt leading to anger and the sadomasochistic personality disorder as a result of feeling victimized by life in general.  Example, compulsively lashing out and blaming others for everything that goes wrong, trying to "fix" others up, and the avoidance of looking within.

Rad's quote (from the Practice Charts thread): "The karmic/evolutionary antidote would demand that one inwardly determine, through self-analysis, the causes of the guilt they are born with."

Ellen said:

I also wonder, though, if the reverse could also be true, ie, that Virgo takes on all the projections of an unhealthy world, and thus, through Virgo, we begin to see the errors of our ways through the manifestations of illness, neuroses, etc.

Yes, this is exactly what's been happening - and especially represented by the Virgo/Pluto generation.  Look also at the self-destructive tendencies of the Virgo generation "punks."

Ellen said:

This is not to say that individuals who manifest these conditions do not have their own individual work to do.  It is to say that perhaps Virgo can be understood as a bellweather, or perhaps the sentries returning to camp with "news" (illness).  To me this gives meaning to the sufferings of Virgo beyond just, hypochondriac, neurotic, sickly, etc.  Does this make sense?

This sounds like the archetype of martyrdom which correlates to both Virgo and Pisces.  It sounds a lot like Jesus on the Cross too.  Just like the medicine women, once the Virgo individual, through self-analysis, finds the cause of the illness, is then able to heal themselves, and others as well.  

Ellen said:

Yes, and within the context of above, by cracking through one's own delusions/etc, one is forced also to see the delusions of the man-made world and can no longer live by it.  Virgo then becomes healer.  Yes?

Yes, Virgo becomes healer through the ability to distinguish between illusion and reality - or between man-made law and natural law.

[Dhyana]

Ellen and Linda,
and Wendy,

I just want to thank you so much for laying it out like this. When the two of you began discussing how the distortion finally has to reach the body (unfortunately) and all this that you have been describing about Virgo, it is as if the layers of the mystery that has perplexed me almost all this life long regarding my health issues, began to unravel so quickly. And so many of us in the Pluto Virgo generation... I can just see so clearly now...

It was already occurring, but this thread just revealed soooo much more, in such a short time to me, in brilliant flashes -- I am just in awe and gratitude to the two of you for going back and forth like that in the last several posts!

And then when you mentioned Uranus in Virgo --yes, of course -- Uranus in Virgo (Trauma/Crisis, in the Body) -- wow .... so much in falling into place-

True healing is upon us when this is  grokked on the energetic and emotional level, I can feel it in my bones (no pun intended)!

I remember Steve once said to me that no matter how many things I try to get better physically, nothing will work, until I am fully cooperating with my Soul's intention. I can feel eons of guilt just melting off of me.

Thank You Everyone
Thank You,
Dhyana

Ps. Sorry if I made this post about me, but I am just so excited, and greatful, I really just wanted to share in this true JOY!


PSS. and THANK YOU Jeffery Wolf Green!!! ..wherever you are <3

[Linda]

Thank you Dhyana!

We have plenty more to cover over the next month - I hope the exploration of the Virgo archetype continues to be beneficial for you and others. 

In the Light of Love,
Linda

[Dhyana]

Yes Linda, I'm sure it will be!

Looking forward to discovering more and hopefully feeling able to contribute what I can too, as I learn more about EA.

Blessings,
Dhyana

[Elen]

I think I understand what you are saying here and if I have I agree.  An "unnatural" expression of Virgo, ie, Virgo expressing within the context of man-made law, could express as "blame" (projecting outward that which is within that is out of alignment with natural law).  Is this correct?

Hi Ellen,

In matriarchal times people lived in harmony and balance, with medicine women (and sometimes men) uncovering the causes of disorders, and treating the whole person holistically.  

The patriarchy and the Garden of Eden myth has brought us many modern diseases, one being man-made guilt leading to anger and the sadomasochistic personality disorder as a result of feeling victimized by life in general.  Example, compulsively lashing out and blaming others for everything that goes wrong, trying to "fix" others up, and the avoidance of looking within.

Rad's quote (from the Practice Charts thread): "The karmic/evolutionary antidote would demand that one inwardly determine, through self-analysis, the causes of the guilt they are born with."

Ellen said:

I also wonder, though, if the reverse could also be true, ie, that Virgo takes on all the projections of an unhealthy world, and thus, through Virgo, we begin to see the errors of our ways through the manifestations of illness, neuroses, etc.

Yes, this is exactly what's been happening - and especially represented by the Virgo/Pluto generation.  Look also at the self-destructive tendencies of the Virgo generation "punks."

Ellen said:

This is not to say that individuals who manifest these conditions do not have their own individual work to do.  It is to say that perhaps Virgo can be understood as a bellweather, or perhaps the sentries returning to camp with "news" (illness).  To me this gives meaning to the sufferings of Virgo beyond just, hypochondriac, neurotic, sickly, etc.  Does this make sense?

This sounds like the archetype of martyrdom which correlates to both Virgo and Pisces.  It sounds a lot like Jesus on the Cross too.  Just like the medicine women, once the Virgo individual, through self-analysis, finds the cause of the illness, is then able to heal themselves, and others as well.

Hi Linda,

Thank you.  This makes sense in and of itself, but there's something still nagging at me that I can't quite figure out.  I am thinking that perhaps Virgo can be seen in 3 degrees.  1)Completely unconscious and thus, subjected to patriarchal culture, expresses as blame, sadomasochistic relationship and overall failure to look within to discern the true causes (or, thinking of Sag, to SEARCH within), thus perpetuating the dis-ease.  The existence of this degree in and of itself is an indicator of man-made distortion of natural law.  2) A transition period: the old way of blame and sado masochistic relationship is not working, but there is not yet and understanding exactly WHAT isn't working and how that "what" is distortion based in man-made law.  3) Conscious awareness and active work towards discerning and working through the causes that are causing dis-ease.  I supose you coud say there is a 4th degree, and that being full awareness: keeping one's mind in line with natural law and thus not becoming ill in the first place (at whatever level illness might want to sneak in).

Gotta go

Thanks for the discussion.

Peace,
Ellen  

Ellen said:

Yes, and within the context of above, by cracking through one's own delusions/etc, one is forced also to see the delusions of the man-made world and can no longer live by it.  Virgo then becomes healer.  Yes?

Yes, Virgo becomes healer through the ability to distinguish between illusion and reality - or between man-made law and natural law.

[Elen]

Hi All,

I thought this anecdote showed how Virgo has to really warp and shift within the context of man-made law.  The anecdote is this (I was told that it is a true story): a man was being chased by a guy with a crowbar.  The guy being chased had just bought a gun and gone to an educational class on how to use it.  He grabbed the gun and ran.  I believe at some poing he tripped and fell.   The guy with the crowbar was still coming after him.  To protect himself, he shot the guy in the leg, disabling him and allowing him to get away.  The guy who was chased and disabled the guy with the crowbar chasing after him ended up in jail.  The reason: because, when he shot the guy, he did not use lethal force.  Because he did not use lethal force, he must not have felt that his life was in danger; otherwise, he would have killed the guy.  He was taught in his class that when you use your gun, you have to shoot to kill.  To me, this shows how discernment (Virgo) gets all twisted around.  If you have a choice to NOT kil and take it, you are held legally culpable.  According to man-made law, killing another is the only option.  This seems pretty insane to me.

Ellen

[Linda]

Hi Ellen,

Before I reply to your last two posts, I'd just like to put out this question in case anyone knows the answer.

What sign does "distortion" correlate to?  We've been talking about how the patriarchy has distorted natural.  When things get warped, twisted, screwed up, distorted, it seems a more serious issue than just "illusion."

Thanks!

[Elen]

Hi Linda,

Good question.  And I'm not sure.  I have 2 thoughts about it: 1) each sign contains within it the potential for distortion.  2) Pluto - although on thinking about that, Pluto seems to expose the distortion that is there.  Thus a 3rd possibility: is there an archetype that corresponds to patriarchy?

Ellen

[Wendy]

Hi Linda,

Good question.  And I'm not sure.  I have 2 thoughts about it: 1) each sign contains within it the potential for distortion.  2) Pluto - although on thinking about that, Pluto seems to expose the distortion that is there.  Thus a 3rd possibility: is there an archetype that corresponds to patriarchy?

Ellen

Hi ladies

I have wondered the same thing, and in all my writings and contemplations about Virgo I have associated patriarchy with the distortion of Capricorn.  Here a feminine earth based archetype has been twisted into the devil itself, rather than honored for the elder wisdom inherent in the sign.  Distorted Capricorn is greedy, driven to build to excess, ruling with callousness, coldness, without responsibly managing the communities within their care.  Building on a distorted Sag view.  Surely casting out the feminine aspect of Capricorn, the wheel of time, Mother Nature.  Saturn rules the core of the earth (karma), natural earth changes.  Capricorn holds the time clock to move us into the next phase Aquarius (progress, evolution).  

I have more but have to dash out.  Not sure if this is helpful, but I feel Virgo and Capricorn are misused or misunderstood, even astrologically, in this patriarchal culture.  I guess all the signs are, just as you mentioned.  But I feel it began with distorting Capricorn and Virgo--the two feminine earth archetypes.

Go grateful for this forum,
Wendy

[ari moshe]

Wow this thread is movin'...

To see what is right (Sag, natural law) and to recognize what is wrong/out of whack (Virgo)

I really appreciate that insight.

From the point of view of the non distorted archetype, Virgo correlates to the natural necessity of each soul, incarnated on this planet, to continuously improve upon the natural function of life itself.
We all know the water triad- Source projected itself as soul which creates an ego as a vehicle back to Source= Pisces- Scorpio- Cancer.

That entire spiritual reality is contained, defined, and made physically possible by the earth archetypes. Consciousness will structure itself in order to create a physical container and boundaries for the evolutionary journey, during which each soul learns to establish a personal relationship with itself, and the resources around it. The soul will necessarily be engaged in making constant adjustments in order to consciously facilitate alignment with natural law while on this physical plane.
Ari Moshe

[Elen]

Linda asks:
What sign does "distortion" correlate to?  We've been talking about how the patriarchy has distorted natural.  When things get warped, twisted, screwed up, distorted, it seems a more serious issue than just "illusion."

Wendy replies:
I have wondered the same thing, and in all my writings and contemplations about Virgo I have associated patriarchy with the distortion of Capricorn.  Here a feminine earth based archetype has been twisted into the devil itself, rather than honored for the elder wisdom inherent in the sign.  Distorted Capricorn is greedy, driven to build to excess, ruling with callousness, coldness, without responsibly managing the communities within their care.  Building on a distorted Sag view.  Surely casting out the feminine aspect of Capricorn, the wheel of time, Mother Nature.  Saturn rules the core of the earth (karma), natural earth changes.  Capricorn holds the time clock to move us into the next phase Aquarius (progress, evolution). 

I have more but have to dash out.  Not sure if this is helpful, but I feel Virgo and Capricorn are misused or misunderstood, even astrologically, in this patriarchal culture.  I guess all the signs are, just as you mentioned.  But I feel it began with distorting Capricorn and Virgo--the two feminine earth archetypes

Ari writes:
From the point of view of the non distorted archetype, Virgo correlates to the natural necessity of each soul, incarnated on this planet, to continuously improve upon the natural function of life itself.
We all know the water triad- Source projected itself as soul which creates an ego as a vehicle back to Source= Pisces- Scorpio- Cancer.

That entire spiritual reality is contained, defined, and made physically possible by the earth archetypes. Consciousness will structure itself in order to create a physical container and boundaries for the evolutionary journey, during which each soul learns to establish a personal relationship with itself, and the resources around it. The soul will necessarily be engaged in making constant adjustments in order to consciously facilitate alignment with natural law while on this physical plane.
Ari Moshe

[/color]
Have we found an answer to Linda's question?

[ari moshe]

Linda asks:
What sign does "distortion" correlate to?  We've been talking about how the patriarchy has distorted natural.  When things get warped, twisted, screwed up, distorted, it seems a more serious issue than just "illusion."

I'd be interested in hearing what an ea moderator had to say about that.

When I think of the nature of distortion, as an archetype, I think of the mutable signs- as those archetypes correspond directly to how consciousness participates within the context of the larger whole, thus the need to cultivate some sort of personal meaning/relationship with the larger whole. Gemini Sag Pisces Virgo.
Ari Moshe

[Linda]

Hi Ellen, Ari and Wendy,

My question:  "What sign does 'distortion' correlate to?"

Rad's quote from Pluto in Cap, the USA, the future of the world:  ..........Moon/Lucifer conjunction..........they have managed to make Americans believe that black is white, up is down, etc, etc.......the opposite of what is actually true, actual reality........

Pisces correlates to resistance to surrender and identify with the Source, while Lucifer is the very nature of evil.  Since "absolute power corrupts absolutely" we could be looking at Scorpio/Pluto.

It would be pertinent to know when the patriarchy began, was it towards the end of the Age of Cancer (ca. 8600 BC to 6450 BC, Cap sub-age) or during the Age of Gemini (ca. 6450 BC to 4300 BC)?

We would need to hear from an EA moderator on this one.

[Elen]

From dictionary.com:  http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/distort

dis·tort", ",/dɪˈstÉ"rt/  Show Spelled[dih-stawrt]  Show IPA
-verb (used with object)
1. to twist awry or out of shape; make crooked or deformed: Arthritis had distorted his fingers.
2. to give a false, perverted, or disproportionate meaning to; misrepresent: to distort the facts.
3. Electronics . to reproduce or amplify (a signal) inaccurately by changing the frequencies or unequally changing the delay or amplitude of the components of the output wave.

[_will]

Hi all.  Great ongoing thread on the Virgo archetype.  Apologies if I break the tempo a bit here, but I feel compelled to chime in and provide some observations and correlations that I think will codify much of what has been said so far in this thread about the Virgo archetype.  

There's this client who has a heavy Virgo emphasis in his chart.  Back in Fall of 2008, he woke up with a strange feeling in his leg - it was described as a shooting/burning pain that he'd never felt before.  He hoped it would go away, but over the coming days and weeks, it only got worse.  In fact, it got so bad that he could hardly walk and was frequently incapacitated for hours or even days.  Some days were better and he continued to work out at the local gym when he was feeling good (or the pain was masked enough).  In February of 2009 he was working out at a gym when his back went out again - this time he was out of commission for 3 days - unable to sit, stand, walk - I'll spare the details, but life was pretty much was unbearable.  The condition continued on for a full year, with all modalities of treatments attempted - physical therapy, cortisone injections, acupuncture, NSAIDS, chiropractic were all tried but none provided permanent resolution.  Finally, surgery to relieve impinged nerves in the L5/S1 vertbrae was attempted in October of 2009.  Relief was obtained from the surgery, but the pain didn't really start to subside until Spring of 2010.  This coincided with the client discovering and beginning to practice Kundalini meditation and quantum healing techniques.  I believe it was a combination of this and the allopathic surgery that contributed to his healing.  While not quite 100%, he is now functioning pretty much at a normal level.

The interesting part here is the chart and the obvious signature of Virgo in this whole crisis.  Looking back at the transits, Saturn was conjunct his natal Sun in 6th house Virgo at the same time the pain first showed up in Fall 2008.  Saturn continued on, making conjunctions to natal Mars in Virgo in his 6th house and then to natal Mercury in Libra in the 7th.  And this was all during the time that he was  experiencing pain, restriction of movement, and an inability to assert himself physically.  Also during this time, Uranus was crossing the horizon and opposing Mars.  The symbolism seems very obvious to me - here you have:

- a client who spent a lot of time in the gym pursuing bodily perfection (Sun & Mars in 6th house Virgo),
- experiencing what turns out to be a pinched/restricted spinal nerve (Saturn conjunct Mercury),
- resulting in debilitating sciatica - the distortion of normal electrical impulses (Uranus opposing Mars in Virgo in 6th, Jupiter inconjunct Mars during this time also correlates - per JWG Jupiter correlates w/ sciatica),
- impeding the overall vitality of the physical body (Saturn conjunct natal Sun in 6th House in Virgo),
- the client continuing to think he can go to the gym, assert himself, work through the pain, and continue on the path toward bodily perfection (Virgo masochism) - but resulting in even more pain/limitation
- the client was then forced inward to critically analyze and search deeper for the missing puzzle piece that Virgo is always looking for, but even more so in this time of crisis - asking why is this happening to me (Pluto was also squaring Mercury during this time)

The outcome?  The whole experience has resulted in a soul that has changed profoundly - he now has a much deeper understanding of himself and his Soul's evolutionary path - and this would not have occurred were he not forced, through the significant crisis of physical/bodily pain, humiliation, and inferiority (yes - that happens when you can't walk, sit, stand, or pick up your children) to seriously look inward and seek out alternate paths of healing (discernment of what works for the Virgo reality).   While he had always been interested in meditation, astrology, and a deeper underlying truth about life, metaphysics, and the cosmos in general - he acknowledges that this period was truly a wake up call for him to rediscover these areas and to align with his purpose.  It's also interesting that both the Sun and Jupiter square his nodal axis w/ SN in Gemini in 3rd, NN in 9th House Sag.  

Anyway, I'm not trying to do a full analysis of this person's chart here, but I hope this helps to give life to the ideas and thoughts that have been posted so far.

-Will