New EA Beginners Practice Thread 2020

[ari moshe]

OK! Tomorrow we will begin our next practice. We will start with analyzing Pluto in a house and it's polarity point by house. For those who are joining in now, please review my posts in the beginning of this thread as well as the beginning of the Pluto book where JWG talks about Pluto and the polarity point.

Feel free to ask any questions at any point!

[ari moshe]

Hello everyone, for our next practice we will place Pluto in the 12th house. Please read the Pluto in the 12th house section in the Pluto book. You can also listen to my audio teaching with Kristin on this placement on my teachings page: www.arimoshe.com/teachings

The 12th house is an archetype that corresponds to the TRUTH. When we look at the truth we are looking at that which is unconditioned, universal, unlimited by any factors of time and space. The placement of Pluto in the 12th house will speak to a soul that is evolving through surrender to divine will: to the truth that is. Thus the soul is gradually exhausting all desires to maintain the illusion of seperation from Source. This means resistance will express by way of the soul choosing to concentrate upon it's illusions of self and reality. These illusions serve to keep the soul safe in living out it's desire to seperate. Like building a sand castle and indefinitely beleiving this sand castle to be real. We can imagine the trauma of disilusionment when the sand castle is washed away. It can feel like one is being betrayed by God. This can lead to intense and dark emotions. Or it can be a catapult to tuen towards God/truth/spirit/Love/the tao and seek to know IT as opposed to one's own incorrect pereptions.

Indiscrimination, be it of who one gets involved with or be it the thoughts one chooses to believe to be real or not, is an issue in the 12th house. This indiscrimination can be correctly applied in understanding the indiscriminate nature of love and truth: it doesn't choose, it's always here now. But indiscrimination can equal getting involved in illusions, saving people, upholding insane ideas and beliefs, trusting others in inappropriate ways etc. So the 6th house polarity point here teaches the evolutionary lesson of discrimination and discernment thus furthering the soul's concentration upon Reality.

We can always think of Pluto as a single focused point of psychological concentration. That's what desire is all about. The more we want something the more it will consume our consciousness. So if this soul deeply desires to know reality, it will remain focused on that. In this focus all the illusions, false perceptions, dream realities it invented will come up and gradually dissolve.

This is a beautiful placement and I feel in general the 12th house is under practiced, so I think it's good to work with this placement.
Take your time and ask any questions you need to in grasping all the elements here.

[Gauri]

Hi everyone!

I'd like to add the next step. Simply, explain how the north node activates the Pluto polarity point.
We all know how the soul has related to their evolutionary directive. The Pluto in the 10th, through the 2nd house south node says how they have grown, evolved, come to know themselves as well as where they might have a strong point of resistance. It all represents the familiar.

The 8th house north node is the point of conscious evolution: choosing to embrace what is new and unfamiliar. This in turn defacto coincides with the soul activating the Pluto polarity point. This is so because they are inseperable: the ego is a satelite to the soul. The north node is the conscious identity structure that serves as the vehicle for the soul's evolutionary intention.

So lets see if we can really connect with the essence of this relationship as we analyze these two signatures together!

The write-up and your simple question are lovely. Very helpful in keeping focus when trying to write an answer furthering understanding.

The north node in the 8th house can, as an example, get the person married - marriage may not be something they value per say or feel pressured to form but their own life evolution (life experience, life curve with zigzags and vicissitudes) can create a marriage for them. Or we find that they refer to this aspect of them as something that just happened on it's own without them really foreseeing it (even in intention, yet in consonance with their inner intentions). For our study the significance and functioning of North node and PPP can be seen as acts of voluntary self-extending, self-giving, alliances and merging, that acquire root in life-matter, life-space (courtesy s.node in 2nd resources, and also different from abstract or purported spiritual value(abstract, untenable, un-immediate)). As part of responding to life circumstance that is the north node itself, the person with this signature, would respond to these responses too, thus 'moving into' the 4th house PPP.  Emotional awakening, regeneration and depth, purification of bonding substance, heightened escalation into sacredness of life and the sacred purpose of life could be themes that await in the hearth!

This is just one probable case.  Let's see how I see some track.

[lindabolley]

Hi Ari!
The 12th house is the most confusing (Pisces, to me, so this is great. I guess because Pisces contains everything, it can feel so overwhelming and hard to put into words. Loved how you just broke it down. This practice session is going to help me get a handle on this archetype. I read your description of the 12th house just as Mars in Pisces crossed my descendent into the 7th house today- approaching my Chiron in Pisces in the 7th conjunct my NN in Aries/7th house... and I feel a rebirth of understanding of Pisces coming on, with others practicing with me.

Thanks so much for your time with us!
Linda

[ari moshe]

Hi Gauri,

The north node in the 8th house can, as an example, get the person married - marriage may not be something they value per say or feel pressured to form but their own life evolution (life experience, life curve with zigzags and vicissitudes) can create a marriage for them. Or we find that they refer to this aspect of them as something that just happened on it's own without them really foreseeing it (even in intention, yet in consonance with their inner intentions). For our study the significance and functioning of North node and PPP can be seen as acts of voluntary self-extending, self-giving, alliances and merging, that acquire root in life-matter, life-space (courtesy s.node in 2nd resources, and also different from abstract or purported spiritual value(abstract, untenable, un-immediate)). As part of responding to life circumstance that is the north node itself, the person with this signature, would respond to these responses too, thus 'moving into' the 4th house PPP.  Emotional awakening, regeneration and depth, purification of bonding substance, heightened escalation into sacredness of life and the sacred purpose of life could be themes that await in the hearth!

Oh excellent persepctive! Yes and on the flip side the 8th house can also speak to divorce. The 2nd house, while it's not about marriage, it can simply pertain to the psychology of fixedness in one's way and relative to the 10th house Pluto we can have a soul with a structure of life that includes the partner, the family, the dog, the car etc. This can express in so many forms. But the 8th house can actually mean the END of all of that. Partner dies, divorces, they are cheated on etc etc. The 4th house PPP then would express the soul getting in touch with their emotions: all that has been supressed under the tightly held pattern of living in continuity the soul has been attached to.

[ari moshe]

Hi everyone, I want to offer a couple examples of Pluto in the 12th house to help us along.

One well known example is Donald Trump. Pluto in Leo in the 12th house. Coming into this life this soul has had the desires for egocentric fame, importance, gradeur - to make himself the most important one. Desire has been linked to becoming all powerful, well known, important. This is Leo in the 12th house. Anything in the 12th house can be thought of where a soul might REPLACE Truth with something that is in fact just an illusion. So with Leo it can easily be "I AM the center of existance" As opposed to God, love, unity being the center of existance.

This desire has bread to psychology of victimiztion relative to experiences of being weakened, unloved, defamed etc. We see Mars is there too and so this has a lot to do wtih war and the psychology of a little boy that needs to assert his will and "win" at all costs. This victimization has lead to the psychology of resistance to evolution: thus electing himself entitled to do whateer is necessary to actualize his desire for absoute power and seeing anyone who is not for him as an enemy.

Trump is an example of a soul who has dug a deep hole in the psychology of resistance. The bottom line of his reality is be more important than God, so to speak. Since this is impossible, becuase nothing but God is real and nothing buy God has meaning, his desire for ultimate self importance becomes a never ending fight to be on top.

Another example of Pluto in the 12th house, this time in Virgo, is Madonna. In my estimate she's transitioning into/ early spiritual stages of evolution. This soul's inner desire is to surrender to a path of refinement that merges her with life beyond the veil and illusion of seperation. She grew up in a strong catholic enviroment and has on her own path been purging the delusions of guilt and imperfection.
She's been a spirtual seeker her whole life and this has very often expressed in her music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79fzeNUqQbQ

[Julia8]

Thank you for sharing the charts of Trump and Madonna as examples of 12th house Pluto, Ari. Much appreciated. When it comes to this placement, to some extent I agree with what lindabolley said above - it's a bit confusing to me as well. In my case, I have already perceived that I tend to create some confusion between the scorpio and the pisces archetype, sometimes.

One tip I'm trying to give myself whenever I feel a little confused, and it's actually something I learned in this thread here, is about the great difference one single word, term or metaphor can make when you're explaining or trying to fully integrate an archetype, whatever it is. Using the example of Pisces and Scorpio, that I said that I feel a little confusing sometimes: both can be connected to the idea of going beyond the known, right? But when you use the keywords control and power vs empowerment, for example, you're meaning an Scorpio aspect, and when you use illusion/disillusionment, Pisces. It's the power of a simple term that changes the perspective. These simple details are what are seeming to help me to bring some more clarity...

In this past week I have been paying a more close attention to my own feelings, thoughts, and the latest realizations about myself that I have made, in the past few months. Since you announced that the next study topic would be Pluto in the 12th, I have been trying to analyze, while reading and studying this chapter of the first pluto book, which of these feelings seem to relate to my own pluto placement itself, and which ones seems to resemble to the pluto in house 12th, that is currently exercising its temporary influence due to my latest solar return chart.

One aspect that I identified within myself and that I thought that maybe could resemble (in some extent) to one of the characteristics felt by the Pluto 12th natives so far, based on what Jeff described in his book, is the focus that sometimes these natives can have to put focus excessively on a single characteristic, or aspect of their own personalities, and manifested everything else through that aspect in order to induce a sense of individuality.

So if possible I would like to see if in your opinion, Ari, what I will write bellow could indeed correspond to the Pisces archetype, or if you think it does not.

In my case I thought that maybe this tendency could be seen through something that has been occurring with a certain frequency in the past few months. A tendency to spend some time comparing my actual perception about my life, to the perception I had a few months, or years ago. These comparisons start when it occurs to come to my mind, randomly, some memory of a recent past moment that I have lived. Even if it's pretty simple moments.

For example, let's say that at the end of the year I had spent what I considered to be a very good week. And let's suppose that what made me consider this week as a very good week, was because it was a time that I was experimenting many different cake recipes, getting very excited about doing that. One day after the other doing this thing, which was a brand new thing to me at that time. That week created its emotional imprint, right? The imprint of the motivation, the excitement felt, because it was a moment of a new ability being discovered. But it is indeed an example of a simple event, in comparison to something that anyone could affirm that it's more life-changing, extraordinary. The vast majority of these memories that come out are this way, simple, just like the example of the recipe, that I just brought. But it's sufficient to make my mind start generating thoughts in the style of: "hm, how long have I felt something similar to that?" "hm, and that motivation and joy that I felt these days... was that joy really as intense, as the joy of that other moment, there, months ago?"

These questions are good and useful, certainly, because on the positive side, it helps us to focus on reality, and check if we are creating a life with pleasant moments. But again, a detail changes the perspective of things, and in my case, this has a sense of pessimism. It seems to me to be like... a tendency of wanting to repeat the territory that has already been explored before. With a certain flavor of fear in it, a fear that what has been experienced may not be experienced again, for some reason. Or that maybe what was already felt could be felt in a similar way again only if I act in the very same way that I did at the other time.

With negative memories, the same occurs. I almost obsessively try to find differences between that situation that was perceived as bad, and the current moment, as if in order to "make sure" that the two situations are in fact very different situations, and that it will not repeat.

It seems like a certain degree of distrust about trusting in reality and life, in the natural form it presents itself.

These are thoughts that come, and that soon go, depending on the moment. This has not happened for some time now, for example. But I have had some phases in which these moments occurred with great frequency.

This tendency to compares different moments is something that to some extent already occurred to me, in past years, but it seems to have started to happen much more frequently, and applying to different aspects of life, from the moment it coincided with the solar return chart. As if it got more strong and more impossible to just ignore and to sub estimate, thinking things such as: "Ah, nah, that's may just be the weather influence to our emotions. Maybe I just need to distract myself" and similars.

Do you think it is possible to say, Ari, only by this aspect alone and without analyzing the rest of my chart, that this feeling described could relate in some way to the Pisces archetype? Or is it more of a Cancerian aspect, maybe connected about the lessons of learning to find emotional fulfillment within yourself, without depending on external circumstances?

I hope that hasn't changed the subject much by bringing a personal experience, and I hope that it was not very much confusing and vague, what I tried to explain here. I just try to share these personal experiences whenever possible because I think it seems to facilitate my understanding. It seems easier to me to assimilate the archetypes when I can associate it with any experience that I have actually experienced myself. Maybe with everyone it is like that.

All the tips are much appreciated, as always.

~ Julia

[BraveCrow]

Hello,

I'm new to the thread.
I have received and have watched my first set of DVD's
Was I to receive a transcript also and a list of homework to be completed?
Can I find that information here?
I'm a little confused on how to best go about this.
Do I check into the message board for needed information?
Thank you so much
Brave

[Rad]

Hi,

You should have received all of this upon payment for the DVD course.

Here is a contact link to write to Deva Green about this:

https://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/contact

God Bless, Rad

[ari moshe]

Hi Julia,

One tip I'm trying to give myself whenever I feel a little confused, and it's actually something I learned in this thread here, is about the great difference one single word, term or metaphor can make when you're explaining or trying to fully integrate an archetype, whatever it is. Using the example of Pisces and Scorpio, that I said that I feel a little confusing sometimes: both can be connected to the idea of going beyond the known, right? But when you use the keywords control and power vs empowerment, for example, you're meaning an Scorpio aspect, and when you use illusion/disillusionment, Pisces. It's the power of a simple term that changes the perspective. These simple details are what are seeming to help me to bring some more clarity...

Exactly. I feel there is great importance in being clear, intentional and thoughtful with the words we use. This is one point of great respect I feel for Jeff Green, the words he uses to describe the archetypes, to me, feel really intentional and resonant.

For example, let's say that at the end of the year I had spent what I considered to be a very good week. And let's suppose that what made me consider this week as a very good week, was because it was a time that I was experimenting many different cake recipes, getting very excited about doing that. One day after the other doing this thing, which was a brand new thing to me at that time. That week created its emotional imprint, right? The imprint of the motivation, the excitement felt, because it was a moment of a new ability being discovered. But it is indeed an example of a simple event, in comparison to something that anyone could affirm that it's more life-changing, extraordinary. The vast majority of these memories that come out are this way, simple, just like the example of the recipe, that I just brought. But it's sufficient to make my mind start generating thoughts in the style of: "hm, how long have I felt something similar to that?" "hm, and that motivation and joy that I felt these days... was that joy really as intense, as the joy of that other moment, there, months ago?"

These questions are good and useful, certainly, because on the positive side, it helps us to focus on reality, and check if we are creating a life with pleasant moments. But again, a detail changes the perspective of things, and in my case, this has a sense of pessimism. It seems to me to be like... a tendency of wanting to repeat the territory that has already been explored before. With a certain flavor of fear in it, a fear that what has been experienced may not be experienced again, for some reason. Or that maybe what was already felt could be felt in a similar way again only if I act in the very same way that I did at the other time.

I'm not sure. This does feel Pisces to me, but I can also see Cancer in this. For sure it relates to the Moon and Saturn: emotional memories are imprinted in time. And thus attachments to past expierences relative to how they "made" us feel. I can also see the grasping for fulfilment and thus the fear (distrust) that you might not get it - that it is in fact not here now, which is a Neptunian fear.

With negative memories, the same occurs. I almost obsessively try to find differences between that situation that was perceived as bad, and the current moment, as if in order to "make sure" that the two situations are in fact very different situations, and that it will not repeat.

It seems like a certain degree of distrust about trusting in reality and life, in the natural form it presents itself.

Yeah realizing that is totally a Pisces thing. Remember the water trinity connets all the water archetypes via the emotional body. In the end we can't purely seperate one from the other. I think that might be why I'm having a hard time answering you in a specific way.

These are thoughts that come, and that soon go, depending on the moment. This has not happened for some time now, for example. But I have had some phases in which these moments occurred with great frequency.

This tendency to compares different moments is something that to some extent already occurred to me, in past years, but it seems to have started to happen much more frequently, and applying to different aspects of life, from the moment it coincided with the solar return chart. As if it got more strong and more impossible to just ignore and to sub estimate, thinking things such as: "Ah, nah, that's may just be the weather influence to our emotions. Maybe I just need to distract myself" and similars.

Do you think it is possible to say, Ari, only by this aspect alone and without analyzing the rest of my chart, that this feeling described could relate in some way to the Pisces archetype? Or is it more of a Cancerian aspect, maybe connected about the lessons of learning to find emotional fulfillment within yourself, without depending on external circumstances??

Probably both - I'd have to get more of a direct feel for you or your chart to answer competently. But everything you wrote about Pisces is true. One thing to consider. Pisces is ANY moment. It's anywhere, anytime. So meaning is found the moment you start orienting yourself towards love, truth, miracles, God, meaning, eternity. Not sure if this answered your question!

[BraveCrow]

Hi,

You should have received all of this upon payment for the DVD course.

Here is a contact link to write to Deva Green about this:

https://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/contact

God Bless, Rad

Hello Rad and thank you for your reply.
I had tried the contact link already and am not able to contact without submitting an order and payment.
I will send a note by mail and try my best in the mean time.

Thank you again

[Pisces_Lady]

Pluto in the 12th

I apologize for the delay in posting.  This post is also somewhat rushed.  I have had some family issues that have arisen and that are ongoing. 

I love this placement.  LOL, I didn't always!!  I have a Gemini SN in the 12th and a 9th house Pisces sun.  So I have some understanding of this archetype and the absolute necessity for the 6th house NN for me and the 6th house PPP for 12th house pluto's.  It's been a pure pleasure to study this material.  While I am using Jeff's work as a guide, this is mostly written from my POV.  I look forward to your feedback and guidance as I am interpreting it from my SN POV. 

12th house Plutos have been learning thru prior lives the lesson that they are not separate from the whole (source) but part of it. They will have evolved some degree of spiritualization during their previous lives and will be moving toward the 6th house PPP.  But with all 12th house pluto placements there is a pull to separate and individuate from the whole and at the same time there exists a thirst, a hunger for wholeness, the desire to be "one of" (merging) rather than "the one" (separating).  They have a deep need to align with a belief system that will encourage them in beliefs and values that are universal in nature which will relieve the sense of alienation and feeling of being lost or missing something.

Over lifetimes their ego-centeredness has been under pressure to evolve into Source-centeredness.  But fear of losing their sense of identity (of losing themselves/falling into the abyss) will drive them to latch onto something/anything of an ego building nature.  These ego building representations could be anything that is temporal regardless of evolutionary state: belief system, the intellect, people, social role, success,alcohol, children, money, a cause etc."¦  They will always fail because not only are these attachments temporary, they are illusions and a poor substitute for the Source which is what the soul really wants.   When these substitutes do fail, the individual will be left facing the four horsemen of terror, bewilderment, frustration and despair.  This is the consequence of defining the ego with that which is limited and defined by time and space.

Even if these individuals attain a dream, or vision of what they desire it is not going to measure up to their unrealistic expectations or their idealized standards and once again they are lost, knowing that they have not found "IT" that which will complete them and make them whole and once again they face the 4 horsemen.

As long as they resist letting go of these illusions, the 4 horsemen will drive these souls into escapism and denial, victimization and martyrdom, judgmentalness and intolerance.  The ticket out lies in aligning with a spiritual practice which encourages the soul to make a connection with the Source.   The PPP in the 6th house of healing, Good Orderly Direction, humility, service, mental discrimination and self-purification and self-discipline will be necessary for them to become open to spiritual growth and fill the void within.  But that is another post.

[ari moshe]

HI Slayton,

I find it's very difficult to bring my mind to any one definition of Pluto in the 12th house, because it is at once very general and hyper-specific, so then the concept of mythology arose and I decided to roll with that. I know that Pluto and Neptune are brothers, so there's going to be some kind of camaraderie, in terms of elemental groove. That said I don't think that it would be an easy conversation, for the simple fact that fixed-water Pluto doesn't do anything easily, necessarily, and would be popping all of Neptune's bubbles or boiling them. And Neptune would conversely be diffusing Pluto's power/need for control, which might piss off the archetype more than it bargained for.

So we have to look at the duality of the situation: and turn to what might be the unconscious expression, or conscious action. Unconscious could be completely psychotic disillusionment; bring in sex drugs and rock and roll, so it depends so much on all of the other aspects, etc., and why the soul desires to be in Pisces I the first place. The flip/conscious side of the coin would be maybe ecstatic spirituality, though it wouldn't be a spontaneous transformation; it would have been something that was accumulating ah for possibly lifetimes, because we know that Pluto would only hit this spot once in a lifetime, and again it depends on all the aspects relative to its location, and you know I just don't have enough formal training in EA to say anything further than that uh but as I see it, the soul is on a precipice like a full surrender; something is being asked of the soul here and at the same time the soul isn't going to do Jack **** without full trust in the Creator, so it comes down to choice and free will and the evolutionary state of that soul.

Welcome to the thread! I forgot to say for those who are new - what I'd like everyone to do is actually read the Pluto in the 12th house section. This will give everyone the core teachings to meditate upon and integrate before posting. And that's intersting, I didn't know that about Pluto and Neptune being brothers.

[ari moshe]

Hi Pisces Lady,

12th house Plutos have been learning thru prior lives the lesson that they are not separate from the whole (source) but part of it. They will have evolved some degree of spiritualization during their previous lives and will be moving toward the 6th house PPP.  But with all 12th house pluto placements there is a pull to separate and individuate from the whole and at the same time there exists a thirst, a hunger for wholeness, the desire to be "one of" (merging) rather than "the one" (separating).  They have a deep need to align with a belief system that will encourage them in beliefs and values that are universal in nature which will relieve the sense of alienation and feeling of being lost or missing something.

Great.

Over lifetimes their ego-centeredness has been under pressure to evolve into Source-centeredness.  But fear of losing their sense of identity (of losing themselves/falling into the abyss) will drive them to latch onto something/anything of an ego building nature.  These ego building representations could be anything that is temporal regardless of evolutionary state: belief system, the intellect, people, social role, success,alcohol, children, money, a cause etc."¦  They will always fail because not only are these attachments temporary, they are illusions and a poor substitute for the Source which is what the soul really wants.   When these substitutes do fail, the individual will be left facing the four horsemen of terror, bewilderment, frustration and despair.  This is the consequence of defining the ego with that which is limited and defined by time and space.

Even if these individuals attain a dream, or vision of what they desire it is not going to measure up to their unrealistic expectations or their idealized standards and once again they are lost, knowing that they have not found "IT" that which will complete them and make them whole and once again they face the 4 horsemen.

As long as they resist letting go of these illusions, the 4 horsemen will drive these souls into escapism and denial, victimization and martyrdom, judgmentalness and intolerance.  The ticket out lies in aligning with a spiritual practice which encourages the soul to make a connection with the Source.   The PPP in the 6th house of healing, Good Orderly Direction, humility, service, mental discrimination and self-purification and self-discipline will be necessary for them to become open to spiritual growth and fill the void within.  But that is another post.

Excellent work Pisces Lady, thanks for starting us off. Only correction is judgentalness and intolerance isn't necessarily associated with Pluto in the 12th. It can, as anything can be. The main point you bring up is that the nature of resistnace here speaks to the need to maintain an illusion of reality that, albeit temporal, provides a sense of meaning. When it crumbles, the four horsemen are right on. It can be very traumatizing to the soul to be stripped of whatever gave them meaning. This dream reality can be a seemingly healthy thing - a positive cause, a spiritual teacher, success, doing something great for the world etc just as much as it can be drugs, alcohol, money etc.

[slayton]

HI Slayton,

Welcome to the thread! I forgot to say for those who are new - what I'd like everyone to do is actually read the Pluto in the 12th house section. This will give everyone the core teachings to meditate upon and integrate before posting. And that's intersting, I didn't know that about Pluto and Neptune being brothers.

Ah... I see. Okay, thanks.