Can anyone shed some light on this? I have tried the entire web and there is simply nothing on this, neither in this forum!
P.S. I myself am in an extremely crucial time of my life (we all are collectively of course) and I have pluto transiting my native lucifer conjunct in capricorn soon and will be glad if my chart could be used as an example of pluto evoking lucifer (if etiquette allows it in here)
I can't find anything about it at all... nowhere
I have read Jeff green's lecture transcript on lucifer and some fragments here and there but never saw anything about pluto transiting lucifer in native charts.
In truth
Prometheus
Hi there Prometheus,
Welcome to the mb. I'll let moderators answer your q about a practice chart. I'd like to share what I understand about Pluto transiting over natal Lucifer.
What's necessary first, is to understand the meaning of your natal Lucifer in your chart. You can simply apply what you've come to learn about lucifer within the ea paradigm. Start with Pluto and the nodes, the nodal rulers, Pluto polarity points, aspects to all of the above. Through that, you can figure out why Lucifer if where it is in your chart. The key is to convert the temptation to give up, the fear that Lucifer tends to signify, into awareness and greater spiritual conviction.
Then, transiting Pluto points to the soul's intent, at this time in this incarnation, to evolve the natal dynamics of the chart in the way described by the transiting Pluto. Sometimes, or most of the time, we aren't capable of understanding why things are happening the way they are. If your not familiar, check out the teachings of JWG on the various ways in which Pluto instigates evolution- he talks about it in the Pluto 1 book as well as some other places.
One thing I can share from my own observation/personal experience with transits to Lucifer (though I don't think I've made any observations of Pluto transits to Lucifer) is that, in the style of the transiting planet, the intent is to turn towards the light, and it is very important to remain devoted to that. Lucifer in Capricorn for example can develop an psychology of futility and defeatism- or become over identified with it's idea of success to the point of distorting what is naturally right and naturally wrong.
You may want to get a reading with one of the moderators here if this is something that you want to get to the root of, to the best that you can. I know of no other astrological paradigm that understands Lucifer to this point of depth as well as ea.
With Love,
Ari Moshe
I have both Pluto books by Jeff Green and intend to read the relevant chapters and paragraphs again.
In any case I blow myself out in the open sharing my chart here - if the moderators think it is breaking the code (I sense there is a lot of cautious etiqutte in here) I will remove the chart.
Thx Ari for your (very) fast input. It takes time to absorb the depth of EA, and I am not an astrologer but have good intuition and discernment with some momentary deep insights.
In truth and thxs...
Prometheus
Hi Prometheus
When I first found this message board there was an excitement there that I had finally found an astrology that was deep enough to get at some of the very intense and seriously crucial transits I too was experiencing. In that excitement I kind of overlooked some of the basics of being on the message board and, in my excitement I just wanted my questions answered immediately --the issues I had at the time felt very pressing, as does yours now.
I came to understand that this message board was really not here for personal consult of my chart, but rather for consult in learning the EA paradigm.
IT took me a while to understand that. So just know, there is an empathetic ear here --I know how that pressing sense feels. ..and you are being heard at that level. It is just that this MB is more for learning EA. To get to these more personal detail of your chart through an EA perspective, I suggest, like Ari did, to inquire about haing a EA reading with Steve, Rad or Deva.
With that said, I ended up getting my very pressings questions answered by having an email reading with Rad which was a very enlightening experience that I would suggest to you given what you are experiencing.
Here is the link for that- https://forum.schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/index.php/topic,107.0.html
you may also want to look at this too
https://forum.schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/index.php/topic,105.0.html
Hope this was useful to you, friend.
Welcome to this MB,
In Deep Peace,
Dhyana
PS
Rad only does email readings. If you want to talk with someone, then I suggest Steve Wolfson --he does them over the telephone --so you may want to do that. So I also highly recommend Steve, he is very good with critical/crisis type situations, based on my recent experience with him.
And I am sure Deva is excellent too, although I have never had a personal consult with her.
Hope this helps....
link to steve
http://www.stevewolfson.com/
Thx for your advice Dhyana
I have no money now. I have borrowed everything the last 4 years.
That said, I still find it odd that there is nothing at all on pluto transiting native lucifer on the entire web.
Regardless of my motivation of finding some specific info about my chart there should be some general EA discussion about Pluto transiting native lucifer but I also sense that that combination is obscure and very esoteric perhaps, therefore difficult to interpret(?).
warm regards to you...
p
I totally understand what your saying --been there too. I could totally relate to the money thing. Maybe you can work something out around that --i dont know for sure, but you might have a private conversation about that with whomever you choose to speak ( any of the mentioned above).
And sure, perhaps you can begin again by starting to describe your own analysis of these aspects --and then offering that analysis here --and asking for feedback and corrections or whatever. Maybe that would be useful. But to make the first effort in analysis, based on whatever you understand thus far from EA may be a good place to start.
Thanks for writing back.
Peace,
Dhyana
Hi Prometheus. I'm going to be very direct and honest, but please understand I mean no disrespect.
The moderators on this board are here to help anyone who desires to learn the ea paradigm, their work here is 100% selfless, and we can never do enough to thank them. Dhyana shared a link with you that clearly outlines the rules of this message board. There isn't any need to test those rules. Meanwhile we have given you good places to start. Go for it- read the relevant chapters in the Pluto books- we can learn something from what you have to bring if your motive is to learn ea.
QuoteRegardless of my motivation of finding some specific info about my chart there should be some general EA discussion about Pluto transiting native lucifer but I also sense that that combination is obscure and very esoteric perhaps, therefore difficult to interpret(?).
No not at all, this paradigm specializes in Pluto! It's a matter of understanding what Lucifer is, and the nature of a Pluto transit. This is all very accessible information. Again, only if you want to learn ea then go and read the suggested sections, and then post with actual questions.
Ari Moshe
But that is exactly why I am here; I want to know what Pluto transit is doing to native lucifer - and the latter is exclusively an EA paradigm discovery. Putting those two isolated attributes together is simply not that easy without rather deep insight or/and empirical experience - at least not for me. And since there are no case stories or descriptions about this combination on the entire world wide web I think it is only natural of me to search here and i don't think it can be done in a 1+ 1 way.
You are actually the first person ever who gave me a brief hint about it (lucifer in capricorn) and you admit yourself that you didn't study this extremely interesting - and for the EA paradigm - very relevant combination of pluto transiting native lucifer. Not to be polemical, just pointing out.
But sure; no sweat, I will simply have to order a session when I can....I just tried to get a thread going and shouldn't have added my personal info. And I don't like to tax people for their selfless energy either. I am just intensely curious about it cause I see it has great importance for me, but also for EA, especially in this day and age.
Sorry if I don't have the same reverence as you, I am new here and rather frantic.
Sorry....
P. Rosenbaum
Here is what I would do if I wanted to understand this transiting aspect in my chart.
Ari mentioned lucifer in Capricorn: "Lucifer in Capricorn for example can develop an psychology of futility and defeatism- or become over identified with it's idea of success to the point of distorting what is naturally right and naturally wrong."
And Prometheus had some recognition there -- sensed some value in what ari wrote here, yes?
So, the first thing I would do is I would take out my Pluto 1 Book, and read Pluto in Capricorn chapter.
Why? --bc the essence of it is speaking DIRECTLY TO THE ARCHETYPE, IN QUESTION, and the coming transit, right? Not to mention the ruler of Capricorn is on the natives 10th house --the NN is there in the 10th etc etc --all Capricorn themes!
And there are a lot of oppositions from the 4th to the 10th --all Capricorn themes! --all on that same axis (CAP/CANCER or 4/10).
Not to mention H7 capricorn (the natural LIBRA house while the SN is in LIBRA H4, natural Cancer House).
So really both the CAP/CANCER axis archetypes very important to grok here, within ones own psyche.
(provided this chart is a porphyry house system chart)
BUT I would truly try not to do this with the agenda of figuring out "whats gonna happen" because i know from prior experience that you cannot figure that out --so it would be a distraction from what the Soul is trying to impart, soley for the growth and evolution for the soul, not for ANYTHING else, in any given Pluto transit.
Plus what is occurring on the soul level, never ends up being for the reason we think. But I must admit, the impulse to "figure out what's coming" still may be there, but I would just have to put it on the shelf, bc i know it's not the point (and we cant figure it out anyhow).
This way I can get in an open space, a fresh space, that is truly willing to see things newly, even differently. I would open the space of my mind enough to open to the possibility of see something about my own self, entirely different that any ideas I already have about myself and what is really going on here... just giving this all SOME SPACE.
I know for myself, if I were totally clear, I wouldnt be attracting to myself the same themes over and over so there must be something within my own self I have not yet seen or be clear about or I wouldn't be in this situation.
So yea, first I would try my best not to go in with "what is gonna happen or what I was going to do" --bc that may end up having me miss the actual gift of the Pluto transit and end up in the same old predicament later! I would try to go in with "what is my deepest heart trying to show me, within my self alone? --Only then would I NATURALLY know what to do, anyhow.
I would have to get all that out of the way, just long enough for some real deep introspection INSIDE MYSELF first!
So then what I would do is I would read very carefully, the ARCHETYPAL nature of Capricorn, as a springboard to intuitively look for how this plays out in my OWN psyche.
--"How do I do this in myself"? --only having to do with MYSELF --first and foremost!
"I would ask myself, how is this archetype playing out IN ME?"
I would ask myself --"could I be doing any of this (CAP ARCHETYPE) unconsciously?"
For example, just a tiny example -- the Capricorn archetype strongly identifies with the sense the I AM WHAT I DO IN THE WORLD rather than I am as I am. I would take a good hard look at this part of the archetype. I would ask "what am I trying to prove? and to whom? and what is my motivation? where is true security? "etc etc...
...These are all CAP themes/ distortions. (Not at all negating here any wonderful work we are to do. And we do our work much better when we are clear, u know?)
It also is the archetype of heavy conditioning that is so deep down in our genes we forget they are still running us very unconsciously. We are still holding these consensus views, even though we may think we are above all that. Dont forget, the genes hold memories.
Then, what I would do is I would go to the chapter in the Pluto book regarding Pluto in VIRGO (bc lucifer is in house 6, natural Virgo house). And I would really slow down and find this archetype in my own psyche and NOT IN ANYONE OUTSIDE OF ME, (what is written in caps is being pointed out, due to the SN in Libra -Libra is great at projecting).
-Doubt and conditioned guilt are major players here in Virgo btw. As is denial (Mercury Ruled Earth) --and trying to be perfect in the work you have to offer the world, as well as the martyring complex. The moon is there in H6 too.( Moon = egocentric structure and security). The native also has a Pluto in Virgo SOUL too! --so the distortions of Virgo will be very important to grok within one's own psyche --and any denial there. (And i surely know this very intimately....lol )
--And I would start to get really honest with myself --very in tune inside with how these archetype are playing out in myself alone,in my own psyche -- I would get really honest about that...
and become realy AWARE of it IN MYSELF, before I started projecting it out onto the world, the other, them and my mission etc. (SN in Libra, 10th house NN in Aries, Capricorn, and the emotional attachment and security inherent in the H4 natural cancer house)
I continually stress the "in myself" in general but even more so here, due to the SN NN axis in Libra(SN) and Aries(NN).
--Being overly focused on "other". And the EXTREMES of this axis -- me and other --loss of balance --it is an energy of extremes! (and I know this one all too well too! lol)
Again, not to mention that house 7 is ruled by Capricorn. So this theme is again repeated with the H1/H7 axis CAP/CANCER, again. Repeating themes like this in the chart are major clues that the soul is trying to resolve these issues, so pay very close attention to these archetypes. The soul wants growth and freedom and when you see repeating themes you must recognize that life is tryng to tell us something about the imbalance in that area --we will attract the situations, in order to RESOLVE this. THis is what it's all about!
I say all this bc to me, the way I understand the lucifer archetype, is that it too has a source... it didnt make itself --it arose from life itself -- and in the core of it, is indeed a gateway to source. it's potential is to be the bearer of light, in it's purest expression-- so in bringing the light of awareness to the archetypes and their distortions, within our very own psyche is key.
So, with this transit, to become more aware of how those two archetypes CAP and VIRGO (etc) operate within ones very own psyche and how they can get distorted, brings the necessary light needed to break through the doubt, fear, hopelessness and denial, that we unconsciously allow the current lucifer archetype to make upon our psyche -- and take us to the other side of it. This way the energy of lucifer asteroid can be channelled for it truest purpose, rather than using it to deny, fear, doubt and veil --(finding it a little difficult to articulate that, just so --but i think the point is there)
So it really is all about become aware of the way the ARCHETYPES operate in OURSLEVES --our very own consciousness, first!
Awareness sheds light on things, yes? Things cannot remain unconscious in the presence of the light, of becoming aware. So the suggestion I make regarding these transits and the natal chart itself -- are to become as aware as possible as to how the archetypes of CAP and VIRGO are playing out in ones own self, ones own psyche ,(or any archetype in the chart --starting first with your own natal pluto and the nodes of course!), ...so that the soul evolution that wants to occur as Pluto crosses the natives natal lucifer, can actually happen.
You can use the Pluto Vol 1 book in so many ways. You don't have to be an expert to really have it do it's work. Just apply the ARCHETYPES -- get to know the archetypes, and it will all start to intuitvely make sense more and more as you move through any chart.
Hope this was useful.
I do hope the moderators can come by and perhaps elaborate or clarify more.
Prometheus,
I would just like to remind you that Astrology does not create reality but correlates with reality. In other words there is no reason to fear a Pluto transit or any other transit or progression. The transits and progressions correlate with you and your development.
As stated by Ari, Lucifer in Capricorn can correlate with the psychology of futility and that is something to be dealt with from within your own psyche. When Pluto transits your Lucifer you will necessarily need to confront this type of self defeating psychology from within yourself. Remember, with Capricorn, the sixth house and Lucifer things can seem worse than they really are.
Dhyana gave you some good ways to look at this using the Pluto material.
Good luck
PS. i forgot to add this
Capricorn/Saturn energy correlates to that sense of pressure with TIME, and also FEAR. So when this TIME pressure urgency, and the energy of FEAR arise, we can identify the archetype, and the arising can actually be a signal that we are going unconscious, so to speak.
I mention this again, to help shed the light of awareness on some of these dynamics.
I know for myself, when this arises, more and more I can let the emotional body experience it, kind of like riding a wave, and then it passes --instead of going unconscious and "doing things" either in thought or action, to move away from it, which was the habitual response before, especially in an intense situation, such as the ones described here. (--not sure where the post that described the situation went, nevertheless, the point remains.)
Authentic Blessings,
Dhyana
Thx a lot for this lenghty generous gesture of yours.
I must reflect upon all this, and improve my astrological knowledge cause EA is a quantum leap (like normal chart reading wasn't difficult enough lol)
I see clearly some of the things you say and they make sense within that framework. I just have to plunge myself to the depths of it in a both meditative and analytical way. The depths pf EA and reality is simply unfathomable....
I will have to process this for a while cause the flux of perceptual input in general these days are crazy and it is depleting me (although I assumed that transiting pluto trining mars should give energy)
hugs to you, Dhyana
P
Quote from: Dhyana on Nov 18, 2010, 03:32 AM
PS. i forgot to add this
Capricorn/Saturn energy correlates to that sense of pressure with TIME, and also FEAR. So when this TIME pressure urgency, and the energy of FEAR arise, we can identify the archetype, and the arising can actually be a signal that we are going unconscious, so to speak.
I mention this again, to help shed the light of awareness on some of these dynamics.
I know for myself, when this arises, more and more I can let the emotional body experience it, kind of like riding a wave, and then it passes --instead of going unconscious and "doing things" either in thought or action, to move away from it, which was the habitual response before, especially in an intense situation, such as the ones described here.
Authentic Blessings,
Dhyana
I wanted to re-state this again, with the reminder that this is
very applicable during this Pluto transit to the natal asteroid lucifer (if that didn't come through before). I wrote it in direct reference to this transit specifically.
In general it applies as well, but my point is it may be heightened/amped up here.
And Skywalker made a very critical point. Thanks Skywalker, what you wrote in one paragraph is what i was trying to say in the three I had previously added in red LOL --just my style I guess.
( It's black type now, for the sake of neatness).
Quote from: Skywalker on Nov 18, 2010, 03:04 AM
Prometheus,
I would just like to remind you that Astrology does not create reality but correlates with reality. In other words there is no reason to fear a Pluto transit or any other transit or progression. The transits and progressions correlate with you and your development.
As stated by Ari, Lucifer in Capricorn can correlate with the psychology of futility and that is something to be dealt with from within your own psyche. When Pluto transits your Lucifer you will necessarily need to confront this type of self defeating psychology from within yourself. Remember, with Capricorn, the sixth house and Lucifer things can seem worse than they really are.
Dhyana gave you some good ways to look at this using the Pluto material.
Good luck
Again, Blessings Prometheus... I would trust the deepest truth inside, and wouldn't get distracted by unnecessary complexity.
In Real Peace,
Dhyana
oh P, thanks for the hugs! :D