Hello all,
I have a couple q's about the nn of the moon:
1. When planets are conjunct the NN, is there still a naturally strong identification with the sn?
2. Is there ever a case where one needs to develop the SN more than the nn?
3. When planets are conjunct the NN, does this simply imply that the lessons of those planets are highly emphasized and definitive of where the soul is evolving? (Meaning it DOES NOT necessarily mean that those planets are already well developed in that soul's consciousness, but rather they are meant to be developed).
Thank you.
Hi Ari,
Quote from: ari moshe on Dec 01, 2009, 05:18 PM
Hello all,
I have a couple q's about the nn of the moon:
1. When planets are conjunct the NN, is there still a naturally strong identification with the sn?
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No, it will be more of a feeling like when you are driving away from something in your car, and you look through the rear view mirror: the increasing sense of something be left behind.
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2. Is there ever a case where one needs to develop the SN more than the nn?
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Yes. When we have the skipped step signature in a birth chart, and the Node that last formed a conjunction to the Planet(s) squaring the Nodes is the S.Node, then the S.Node is meant to be the integration point for the entire signature symbolized in the skipped steps. Also, when planets are conjunct the South Node those planets and the Node itself, and the House they take place in, will be archetypes within the Soul's consciousness , it's prior lives, that are being brought forwards into the current life for ongoing evolutionary development and reasons. However, they are not meant to remain static within the Soul's ongoing evolution. These symbols will evolve by way of the N.Node itself, and the location of it's planetary ruler, relative to the bottom line evolutionary intent of the Soul: the opposite house and sign of the natal Pluto.
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3. When planets are conjunct the NN, does this simply imply that the lessons of those planets are highly emphasized and definitive of where the soul is evolving? (Meaning it DOES NOT necessarily mean that those planets are already well developed in that soul's consciousness, but rather they are meant to be developed).
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Planets conjunct the N.Node means that those archetypes have been worked upon prior to the current life: they are not brand new. And the intention of the Soul is to continue to work upon these archetypes as bottom line orientations to the current evolutionary intentions of the Soul.
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Thank you.
Rad
Having a planet conjunct the NN would also signify that specific planet is playing a major role in your current evolutionary intentions defined by the karmic dynamic. It would give you some clues by what archetype, house, and sign as to how to better actualize the NN. I like to think of it as a tool to help get us to where the NN is pointing us. Both the NN and that planet are basically working as one energy. Also, if it is conjunct the NN, that means it is opposed the SN. Both stressful aspects, but can lead to evolutionary growth if used properly.
Rick
Thanks rad, that was very clear and insightful
I'm trying to comprehend the general meaning of a planet retrograde on the nn. Is it karmicly similar to having a planet on the sn in which there is a re-live dynamic?
Ari,
No because with a planet on the N.Node the Soul has an inner sense of moving towards something that has already been underway, whereas the S.Node creates much more of sense of being 'stuck in something from the past that the Soul wants to move away from, but can't. With a planet retrograde on the N.Node the Soul will continue to recreate circumstances, inner and outer, in which the operative principle will be one of individuation which, of itself, accelerates the evolution of the Soul. Thus recreating dynamics and circumstances that need to be repeated in order to move towards the Souls evolutionary future in an increasingly individuated way that the Soul IS MOVING TOWARDS: what appears from the front window when driving versus what appears in the rear view mirror.
Thank you.
Perhaps we can look at Dylan's chart more thoroughly to practice applying the principals of a planet retro on nn, as well a planet in primary square to the south node? I feel his chart has a lot of good rare signatures going on.
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/arimoshe/bobdylan.jpg)
When we have a dynamic in which a planet is last forming a square to the south node- is the north node and it's ruler still the operative evolutionary vehicle for the rest of the chart, as well as being the integrative point for ppp?
In this example, the pisces sn is where the soul needs to focus to resolve the skipped step implied by Mercury. Is that resolution a necessary foundation in order for the evolutionary intentions of the soul to manifest (ppp via nn and ruler of nn)?
Ari,
Yes. For Dylan his Soul has been gathering all kinds of information and philosophies from a diversity of cultures for many lifetimes relative to his desire to understand the nature of life from a philosophical and cosmic point of view. Within this he has desired to communicate his knowledge and understandings through parables, metaphors, and poetry. And he has already had other lives of relative fame through the vehicle of poetry specifically yet felt to limited in that form, and how many he could reach through it. Thus he desired to figure out a form that would have the biggest impact on others, and the widest dissemination of his work as result: Neptune on the N.Node retro. The empirical form of that work is the S.Node in the 3rd in Pisces with the Mercury square to it, and of course it's ruler Neptune. The widest dissemination is the 7th House.So he did figure out that form of course: music. And through his music he then reached the world audience that he so desired to reach, and traveled the world, 9th House, is so doing.
Within this has been his unresolved dynamics and issues in personal relationships as symbolized by that Mercury in his 7th squaring the Nodes. As one of the lyrics in his music says: keep one hand waving free beneath diamond skies. Well, that has been his approach to not only his life in general, but of course intimate others. His Soul trail is littered with many others Souls over so many lifetimes because of his need to keep one hand waving free. And it still is. And because it is it will remain this way leading him into yet another life to deal with it.
Rad
Thanks Rad.
Is the music component indicated in the placement of Mercury in the 7th (7th= making harmony)?
So it seems that in order to resolve the skipped step he would have needed to put conscious effort in learning how to "hear" and "listen" to other people who didn't already think the way he did. The Mercury in virgo in the 7th (judgemental ear- especially relative to the nn in virgo in the 9th) squaring the sn in pisces in the 3rd= can't hear other people's way of thinking/looking at the world.
He has been insistent on finding his own path to truth, all the while not truly listening to/ putting for the effort to understand anyone that contradicted what he already knew to be true. Thus failing in his intimate relationships. Is that an accurate way of describing this skipped step?
Hi Ari,
Quote from: ari moshe on Dec 14, 2009, 07:03 PM
Thanks Rad.
Is the music component indicated in the placement of Mercury in the 7th (7th= making harmony)?
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Music is a Venus / Neptune archetype. So his S.Node in Pisces, Neptune Retro on the N.Node, Mars in Pisces and it's squares to his Gemini stuff, and of course the Mercury in Gemini in the natural Libra=Venus House.
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So it seems that in order to resolve the skipped step he would have needed to put conscious effort in learning how to "hear" and "listen" to other people who didn't already think the way he did. The Mercury in virgo in the 7th (judgemental ear- especially relative to the nn in virgo in the 9th) squaring the sn in pisces in the 3rd= can't hear other people's way of thinking/looking at the world.
He has been insistent on finding his own path to truth, all the while not truly listening to/ putting for the effort to understand anyone that contradicted what he already knew to be true. Thus failing in his intimate relationships. Is that an accurate way of describing this skipped step?
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Well his Mercury in actually in Gemini, relative to a S.Node in Pisces in the natural Gemini house. I would not see this as a problem of 'hearing' other people at all. Hearing them, and being critical of what he hears, yes. Critical of how others think yes, but not because he is not 'hearing' how they think. His skipped step is much more about 'keep on hand waving free beneath diamond skies' as applied to being in intimate relationships. The need to repeat many relationships carried over from other times because of this in order to resolve them. Hearing and understanding what others need, but in so doing that then conflicting with his own perceived needs that don't always mesh with the others needs. And then moving on yet again because of. And that Soul story continues for him, and will show up yet again in his next life.
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Rad
Thank you Rad.
Here's another chart- I trust that posting these q's and examples are helpful learning opportunities for some of you as well.
I have a friend whose chart I haven't been able to really grasp. We see that his north node is conj the sun, and he has Lucifer, Pallas, Mars and Saturn all forming a square to the north node and the Sun. I can see how having any planet on the north node implies the familiarity of the north node, however it seems complex with all those planets squaring it. I can't quite grasp the story here.
I think he is first stage spiritual. He works with youth in oakland doing restorative justice in the school system. He shares his home openly with anyone, he is a musician. He seems very content with what he has and I observe a very strong connection with the divine feminine- and is heart is really open. He doesn't seem to worry about money, or survival- though he isn't earning very much. Super content individual.
I asked him about his father, seeing all the powerful 5th house sun stuff in his chart. His father was/is a doctor, and always worked full and long days. He lacked affection and didn't give his son much attention. My friend says that he is very conscious of the ways in which he emulates his father, and he tries to be as present for the people in his life as possible.
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/arimoshe/friendchart.jpg)
What I am able to discern so far is that in past lives it was really important for him to be the provider of his family. So we see a similar pattern to his father- all that second house stuff squaring the north node- implying that that cap in the 5th has at some point been a strong reason and motivation for earning a living.
Clearly this life isn't about being the provider of his family. There is a great imperative in this life to further individuate the emotional body to a place of greater authenticity. He has been learning, and is continuing to develop a detached relationship to his emotional reality in such a way that he can be completely clear and real about his reality- and ultimately connect with more and more people with whom he can create an authentic sense of family with (cancer 11th house nn- conj sun). In doing this, he creates a new approach to survival- survival that is based on the deepening and sharing of intimacy with family/community. So the money goes into projects, goes into his visions- ultimately to live a more vibrant, emotionally enriched life with those that he resonates with.
It seems he has been given a big responsibility to direct financial resourecs in such a way that it can built something new, more evolved. And the way he will be doing this is through the power of his throat chakra (scorpio moon in 3rd house- he's starting to get really into chanting)
All that feels right, knowing him and all. Does the fact of the sun being conj the nn imply that the energy of the square to the nn is ALSO FAMILIAR to this soul? And the energy of the square comes out when/as my friend begins to build something new?
Thanks for your guidance.
Hi Ari,
"All that feels right, knowing him and all. Does the fact of the sun being conj the nn imply that the energy of the square to the nn is ALSO FAMILIAR to this soul? And the energy of the square comes out when/as my friend begins to build something new?"
Yes. And from what you wrote Ari he is fulfilling the intentions of those squaring planets to his Nodes, of recovering those skipped steps and evolving because of. This is a great example of a Soul that is in fact resolving those skipped steps and evolving because of.
Rad
oh cool, i cant wait to tell him!
rad, is it appropriate for me to continue posting charts like this here? i am learning a lot from this- i just want to check in as i appreciate the energy you and the other moderators put into this...
Ari,
Yes, because they serve as excellent examples for all to learn from .............
Rad
i am so grateful for that! this is such a blessing.
Well, here is another friend of mine. It's a bit more complicated of a chart. It's a good practice because she has a planet on the northnode, planets squaring both nodes, and a conjunction of both nodal rulers. So many significant elements all present in this chart.
She is first stage spiritual. Her father was an alcoholic growing up and wasn't too present for the family. Since then, he has been healing and they currently have a very strong relationship. Her mother died when my friend was 17. She lives alone- is actively involved in creating, and shining, mostly through painting. She's been working with a man who has been doing journeying work with her. She's currently getting more in touch with suppressed emotions such as anger- and is also developing more boundaries in her life by letting in only those that she can trust.
Her sister, who she currently doesn't have a relationship with- made fun of her as a child for her voice. She has a fear of singing in front of other people. She is brilliant and very spiritually aware, and is becoming more empowered to speak her truth, to just speak up in general.
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/arimoshe/femalefriendchart.jpg)
(note: this post is a continuation of a new chart example i posted at the end of page 1)
What I will practice is synthesizing the whole story together. having a square to the nodes from both ends means that both nodes will serve as an integration point for resolving skipped steps. I'll take it a part step by step.
In previous lives, there has clearly been a strong pattern of isolating herself from relationships by being protective and overly assertive of her own independence and freedom AND being in relationships in which there was a lot of projections and satisfying other ppl's perceived needs. This is indicated by the nodal axis being squared.
From the perspective of Neptune- which is squaring the south node. She has created relationships with people who embody the self assertion and will that she herself has lacked. Through those relationships- she has given away all of her power to her partners and SEEN them for who they were, all the while not understanding how spirit wished to move uniquely through her. She has had experiences in the past in which she was deeply invalidated by her partners- resulting in a decision to hide who she is.
The other patterns that this signature implies is staying away from intimacy and not committing with anyone out of a fear of not being truly seen.
The ruler of the sn being venus in leo in the 12th- re-emphasizes the same story, that there has been confusion, and perhaps resistance in creating balanced relationships that support and honor who she is.
So that's one level- and of course, the key here is to attract relationships with people, and ultimately a partner that will love her for exactly who she is and see the divine light in her. This partner will also share a unique sense of purpose and be highly committed to an inner relationship with Godd'ess.
Looking at the north node now, we have Chiron in gemini in the 10th. That relates to a wounding where she has played a public role in society- filling a social purpose, but was subject to intense critisism, and perhaps death from partners who didn't approve of who she was. Also it could relate to having created relationships with people that were heavily judged by society. Ultimately there having been a dissonance between her relationship needs and the way she was serving as a mentor/teacher/healer. And the same pattern comes up- attracting relationships with people in which her partner may express the sense of purpose and direction that she was afraid to develop on her own. So living vicariously through the partner- resulting in a feeling of not knowing her own authority and social role. This has breeded a strong feeling of not feeling a place for herself in the world.
Vesta in Cancer in 11th squaring the north node. We can say that's been about creating a home that is a reflection of her own authenticity- and being fully committed to that way of living. This way of living was unconventional and deemed wrong by her partners, and perhaps society in general which tried to keep her in a state of conformity.
Is it because of the moon on the nn that we can understand why at such a young age she has taken it upon herself to heal? Meaning it implies a karmic familiarity with the Vesta Chiron square?
My hunch is that the moon on the north node implies that she has already done a lot of work in this regard and has developed a strong sense of IDENTITY around how she creates relationships, and the patterns of not creating her own way of being in the world that occurs within these relationships. In this life she is meant to continue developing and acting on that awareness.
Both Vesta and Chiron opposing Neptune, both squaring the nodes- The synthesis of both nodes becomes extremely important. The intent here is a real balance between self autonomy and relationship. Being connected and alive to her own sense of purpose and having a partner/relationships that support and encourage her purpose- also a partner that them self is devoted to a spiritual mission and role in this world.
From there- she has the proper support to develop her unique talent (neptune in the 5th), birth something or another- and provide a social container as a teacher and mentor to help others (chiron in gem in the 10th). It is simultaneously key that she is detached and unconcerned with what she looks like and is devoted to being a vehicle for spirit to work through. She does that by focusing on her own family and community- building and maintaining and vibrant emotional life with other people who she considers to be family (Vesta).
Both rulers of the nodes are conjunct in Leo in the 12th- in this case, implying a need to resolve a past pattern of hiding and not merging her relationship self with her own unique sense of purpose self. She is meant to work with others- to inspire others as an artist, teacher, healer, and/or channel, by following the guidance of Spirit to reveal a new form of grace and beauty in the world which will bring her to a special position and role- however that looks.
All this relative to the soul's evolutionary desire- Pluto in scorpio in the third, opposing Jupiter in Aries in the 8th, and square mercury in leo in the 12th. She is collecting information as it relates to the unique active expression she is meant to reveal to the world. A lot of this information will pertain to understanding the basic natural laws of creation, and finding a way to uniquely set forth in exemplifying/disseminating them. She is on the path to guiding other people through her own natural way of bringing light into the world. The PPP becomes activated- as a natural focal point develops based on direct revelation- which allows her to synthesize various fields of knowledge. this will fully express and allow creative energy to shine through her with a particular spiritual healing purpose and mission.
So was this an appropriate application of the principals of squares to the nodes? If anything I wrote is off, or if you feel I'm missing anything, I'd love to know! Thank you so much!
... and i hope other people will chime in if you have any insights/ or questions. i feel that any and all participation can only be a service to us all.
Hi All,
It has been quite a while since I have been on the forum and I really appreciated reading many of the posts, especially Ari's posts about the nodes in relation to specific charts.
I have been working with this woman astrologically. She is feeling really challenged right now, and I have been trying to help her understand the concept of her north node in Cancer in the 2nd house. She has moon conjunct the south node in the 8th, and is struggling with resources and issues around home right now.
Is it correct to say that in this life her north node in the 2nd is about learning to become emotionally self-reliant, to depend on her Venusian resources rather than emotionally and financially rely on her 8th house relationships? Or is her Moon on the SN meant to be utilized to help her fulfill the north node functions?
The only aspect I see from the moon is a trine to Venus. Her Venus squares Saturn, ruler of her SN and Moon, and squares Magdalena (I have been working with this asteroid a lot) and Uranus, Mars, Pluto.
Are these the aspects she needs to work more consciously with to address the SN issues?
(http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv196/Astroearth/astrofriend.gif)
Thanks,
Wendy
Hi Wendy. I wanted to add my input on the chart you posted. I would say that South Node conjunct the Moon in cap/8th house symbolizes that the person's self-image (moon) is a core or critical issue brought over from the past (conjunct the South Node). The Moon/South Node in cap in the 8th reflects that a deep repression of the emotional body is trying the be unlocked, and a positive self-image is trying to manifest. In this way, a deepening and maturity within relationships relationships can then be experienced (Saturn square Venus). the Capricorn archetype correlates with guilt (both conditioned and acquired guilt), and the need to emotionally mature by accepting responsibility in ones own actions. The North Node in Cancer in the 2nd house and also Saturn square Venus reflects that this person will experience, or has allready experienced, being thrown back upon herself time and time again in order to learn the core issues of emotional self-reliance (North Node in cancer/2nd house), and also learning how to emotionally nurture herself in the ways that she needs instead of projecting these needs within relationships. In this way, a state of internalized emotional security can be actualized, and she can transmute the limitations and repression of her old self-image, inner relationship to herself, and the types of relationships she attracted because of that self-image. Again, a deepening and maturity within relationships can be accomplished as she moves towards these life lessons (South Node in Cap/8th house conjunct the Moon, planetary ruler Saturn square Venus then transmute to higher levels of expression). These are core themes/dynamics within the chart that I saw. I hope this helps.
Deva
Hi Deva,
I too have a Saturn-Venus square involving the signs Aquarius and Taurus (though my phase, unlike the chart Wendy posted, is last-quarter). Your words ring so true on a Soul level. They (and you) have given me a whole new perspective on this aspect in my chart. Thank you so much.
(P.S. Your interview with Kristin on Healthylife.net was fabulous!) :)
Love and blessings to you and your family, and a happy New Year to all,
Lesley
Deva that was really clear, thank you.
Thanks for posting another chart Wendy, i really really enjoy this stuff.
I also want to point out that she has Jupiter in Aries in the 11th squaring the nodes, the resolution node in this case being the south node. So clearly there has been persecution. She herself also been over identified with her social power in the past- and took for granted the subjectivity of her own views. In turn, she has attracted traumatic experiences based on who she was (Jupiter, also Saturn retro in Aquarius in the 9th- and that squaring Venus). A lot of this had to do with social roles and projections of who she was supposed to be and not allowed to be (with venus in taurus squaring that saturn and the sn in cap in the 8th with jupiter squaring it- it's such a classic witch burning example. Or someone that was working with the divine feminine in such a way that was DIFFERENT than the social norm- and threatening to most people). This made her most distrustful, and more emotionally guarded as a result, which also attracted more power struggles with partners. So connecting to a spiritual path that helps her re-define her sense of power as a guide, mentor, healer, a woman feels key- through which she can SPEAK UP for her beliefs and help others
... she may easily feel very alienated and distrust others who get close to her--- all the while deeply depending on others for her own security. So she needs to become re-empowered. All this will naturally lead her to the cancer in the second house- emotional self reliance.
sooo... anyone got any comments for the last chart I posted? i know it was wordy, but there's a lot of good practice material in that chart. no pressure, just putting it out there...
Based on all of the input would it make sense that she has been living in communities, traveling around for years, gathering financial support via her spiritual work without really ever grounding or creating a home for herself and her son?
Right now the nodes are on her nodal axis and Jupiter, Neptune and Chiron are squaring her natal Venus and conjuncting her Saturn and she is struggling with feeling secure and doesn't know where she is going to live? Would some of those struggles be part of what needs resolution, an expression of her south node, and a karmic learning leading her to the north node?
She does offer some kind spiritual counseling and previously was in the military. Her progressed moon is also opposes progressed Jupiter, squares the nodes and soon is to square Venus.
When she calls me she is always looking for the spiritual solution, like high high energy, not necessarily a grounded internal perspective.
ARI--I am reading your post and will share soon:)
QuoteBased on all of the input would it make sense that she has been living in communities, traveling around for years, gathering financial support via her spiritual work without really ever grounding or creating a home for herself and her son?
I'd say so. perpetual movement, trying to find a place in the world to be who she is (Saturn retro 9th house, aquarius, jupiter in the 11th). I'd say it's also a pattern of seeking but not integrating- mostly because nothing is "the truth". Her lessons is to stop trying to find the right path and to stop trying to find other people that she can resonate with.
As I see it, she has to discipline herself to have a direct experience of the truth- this requires a full commitment and devotion to finding the truth within. She's seeking to liberate from any ideas and dogmas about who she is and who she is supposed to be- and to literally stand out from other people's expectations of her, completely on her own.
However, it sounds like she has been replaying the pattern of seeking from the outside and, yet all the while not belonging. She has to give up the need to belong and devote herself to find out what the truth is, and to live that. The reality on her chart is such that, in so doing, she will indeed come to understand, in a very clear and objective way, the truth. She will use that knowledge to help people as symbolized by the power and authority in cap in the 8th. And in so doing she will create a financial stability- creating all the conditions conducive to her north node.
Perhaps she has an interest in astrology?? what could this be for her?
Yeah- I'd say all those planets on her Saturn are asking her to get serious about her spiritual work, and it would surely be bringing up and exploding the nature of her avoidance of making it her own. This is a powerful time for her- lunar nodal oppositions can be emotionally challenging i've noticed.
I realized my post on my friends chart was long- which isn't inviting for anyone to jump in there. So here are a couple of questions about the last chart that I posted.
1. What is the resolution to skipped steps when you have a polarity of planets squaring the nodes? it feels like it requires great adjustment and mastery. What does that look in this chart?
2. What are the signatures in her chart that relate to a fear of singing? I recognize the Pluto in the third, and that squaring mercury which itself is conj the nodal rulers- relates to having been strongly shut down for expressing herself. Clearly her soul has attracted challenging circumstances in order to open up her throat. Is that it?
3. Does Neptune in the 5th at all relate to not singing in public- or is that more the mercury in leo squaring third house pluto?
4. With the moon on the north node, how does that modify our understanding of the planet squaring the nodes?
Thank you