Old EA Message Board

Hi All,

Is there anything specific with evolution when Neptune conjunct 1. Pluto 2. nodal axis ; especially when taking into account Neptune as the Source. I have read in Pluto 1 book about the specific evolutionary and karmic factors relating with Pluto conjunct nodal axis .Is there any specific factor exist if Neptune conjunct Nodal axis.

Thank you
Sree

Hi Sree,

Pluto conjunct a planet means that the Soul desires to metamorphose and thus evolve that planet´s archetypal meaning in the persons life. How Neptune is experienced will vary depending on evolutionary level, sociological conditioning and the persons free will. One of the highest forms of this aspect could be a desire to merge with the Source.

Any planet conjunct the South node of the Moon indicates that the Soul is reliving dynamics relative to that planet and it´s archetypal meaning. In some cases it can mean the person is in a state of fruition and brings forth some form of talent or gift connected to the archetypes of the planet conjunct the South node and also the house position and sign where they are located.

A planet conjunct the North node indicates that the archetypal dynamics of that planet have been worked on in the previous life to a point and still needs to continue to be developed and integrated into the evolutionary path in the current life.

All the best

Hi Skywalker,

Thanks for the clarification.I have few more question from what you have wrote.

QuoteIn some cases it can mean the person is in a state of fruition and brings forth some form of talent or gift connected to the archetypes of the planet conjunct the South node and also the house position and sign where they are located.

Is this possibility of fruition present for both New phase and Balsamic phase conjunction.
Is the intensity of experience which lead to the awareness of such gift or talent varies with new phase and balsamic phase conjunction.Do awareness of such gift is easier through  balsamic phase conjunction than New phase .

QuoteOne of the highest forms of this aspect could be a desire to merge with the Source

When we say " highest forms of this aspect "does it points to a person in the spiritual level of consciousness.What is the generalized way a person act out this aspect if he is in a third consensus state.Is he just uses the polarity phase to move forward.If that is
the case then how long he can be in this phase in this manner.And my feeling is as long as he is ready to move.And the inner emptiness as part of balsamic phase becomes the factor which make him ready to move forward; along with cataclysmic action .

Thank You
Sree

Hi Sree,

Yes, there may be fruition in the balsamic and new phase conjunctions to the nodes.

I don´t know how to answer your question about the intensity and awareness of the gift or talent as that is going to be unique to each Soul.

Relative to the Neptune Pluto conjunction, yes in the spiritual stage it could be a symbol of someone that consciously desires to merge with the Source. In the third stage consensus it could mean a desire to follow one´s dreams within the structure of society, one dream after another and those dreams could be anything. We have an example of this aspect in the chart of Hitler. He had Pluto conjunct Neptune in the 8th House in Gemini and had an unlimited desire for power over others which he attained partially thru brainwashing the German people with his oratory skills.

The amount of time a Soul stays within a certain phasal relationship will depend on its own evolutionary pace in my understanding. There can be resistance to the culmination of a cycle which can mean that it will take longer to complete whatever the Soul is attempting to culminate. 

All the best

Hi Skywalker,

I think it is OK to ask few more question in this thread, even though it is not related with the title,.
as the question got raised in my mind as part of what you wrote regarding Hitler.

Hitler with his unlimited desire for power and  oral skill made people ( large number ) to follow him blindly.Surely a good number of people were able to see Hitlers madness and thus didn't follow him.But many who didn't follow also suffered (- persecuted) as part of this collective madness .So my question is what lesson those in higher state of awareness has to learn when they suffer persecution .Example of such persecution includes Mahatma Gandhi (Third Individual State),Jesus (Spiritual Level)etc.Why do these soul didn't have a choice or is that they choose hardship (persecution) consciously for the betterment of collective .

Thank you
Sree

Hi Sree,

i think in the case of Jesus it was different than most other persecution cases because he simply was serving the Source in whatever way the Source needed him to. 2000 years later and his message of compassion is still strong and he is a symbol of love and compassion, peace and unity for billions. Maybe it wouldn´t be that way if he had not been persecuted.

There can be various reasons for a Soul do create the experience of being persecuted. A conscious or subconscious need to atone for guilt, a need to humble the Soul for various reasons, and karmic retribution for persecuting others are some of the most common reasons in my understanding.

All the best

Hi Skywalker,

QuoteSome who have been karmically destined to play the role of a martyr or victim in order  to realize their own lessons in judgment have left us with inspiring testimony to this kind of twelfth house truth concerning judgement and forgiveness .Jesus of course is a paramount example -"forgive them father ,for they know not what they do".....Jesus had neptune conjuct the south node in scorpio and six planets in pisces opposed pluto and mars retro in virgo.The ruler of Jesus's north node in taurus was venus in pisces.

What you wrote and what is written in Pluto book 1 page 226 ( quoted above) looks some what confusing (-may be i am wrong) .As you pointed out" he simply was serving the Source in whatever way the Source needed him to'" is completely true by seeing his teaching and the way it is helping many to find peace within.Now in the book it points to karmic destiny and also lessons in judgment.So what does that means? Is karmic destiny not based on our action and choices in the past.Then even in higher spiritual level the past karmic imprint which need balance ( atoning) can be very intense for some soul based on individual karma.

Thank You
Sree

Hi Sree,

I understand what you are saying based on what you read in that paragraph but if you read carefully the part saying "Some who have been karmically destined to play the role of a martyr or victim in order  to realize their own lessons in judgment have left us with inspiring testimony to this kind of twelfth house truth concerning judgement and forgiveness"

Forgiveness is the KEY word here as Jesus in my understanding at least, would not have any karma linked with judgement. JWG was teaching about the archetypes of Pisces, Neptune and the Twelfth House and used Jesus as an example of forgiveness.

Karmic destiny in my understanding is based on the choices of the past and present and also evolutionary necessity. The karma you are asking about in whatever evolutionary condition is unique to each Soul and yes it can also be very intense in the spiritual level of evolution. In the case of Jesus I think it was his destiny as a form of service to the Source and the planet to have the intense experience of being persecuted and killed in the way he was.  

All the best

Hi Skywalker,

I was looking within myself that made me ask the above question regarding Jesus.

One thing i felt is that if it was God intention( taking destiny as God intention) for Jesus to be a martyred which he completely surrender ,then is that means in the third spiritual state there is a natural law which ask for martyrdom ,Which i felt as a unnatural law especially that even such an act of martyedom do not guarantee that a particular teaching  is practiced and established in the right way as taught ,instead ,through correlation,we can see that the teaching itself had also been distorted like any other teaching.
So it means individual conscious level, through life experience, is what matters than the teaching itself.

So is spiritual matryed ,in third spiritual state, part of natural law.

Really i felt more acceptance by taking it not as a natural law ;and in the case of  Jesus it was a free choice from his part to  surrender to whatever going to happen as part of his teaching ie his choice than God's intention.

Also i have read somewhere here that in second spiritual level there is chance for developing  spiritual ego for the soul .If true then do there is a chance for third spritual level soul to have spiritual dream.A dream where all soul become awake and be perfect.When say perfect i mean all souls are ready through forgiveness to live with imperfection.Which in the lights of evolution seems impossible as it is a process.


Thank you
Sree

Hi Sree,

No I don´t think it´s part of natural law to be a spiritual martyr in the spiritual state of evolution. It can happen but will not necessarily happen to all in this stage.

I´m not sure what you mean by "spiritual ego" as long as there is an I, and identity that is separate from the Source then there is always an ego.

In the second stage spiritual there is generally a tendency for the ego to inflate and can create delusions of grandeur, of being superior or special or more entitled etc because the Soul has already achieved a high level of understanding, and has had inner experiences and realizations that leads to an expanded awareness compared to the vast majority of other people. In this stage thou, there will be a downfall that will help purge the Soul of these egocentric delusions of grandeur.

I would think that in any stage of development Souls can dream of helping others evolve their awareness and purify themselves in varying degrees depending on their own awareness level.

All the best

Hi Sree,

Let me jump in here and say that martyrdom, being a martyr, does not occur in natural law. It only occurs when natural laws are distorted and/ or suppressed. Jesus had his own individual and karmic evolutionary past that then lead to the life wherein his Soul chose to martyr itself on behalf of the God that lived within him.

All Souls have an ego whatever the evolutionary condition is for any given Soul.

God Bless, Rad

Hi,
In my view, experiences of persecution can be also ignited simply by differentness relative to the social context. Within this, natural desires to improve or revolutionize the social context serves by iteself to create persecution, relative to the nature of these times. Here the persecution serves as a means to induce an awareness of such differentness, and/or about the specific social context the individual operates within. I'd also expand the notion that persecution can be created because of guilt, in that the guilt can be natural or it can be induced guilt, or a combination of both, when they have created a masochistic psychology that desires to atone for such guilt. And to clarify that, because the psychology of masochism involves a permeating guilt, the atonement occurring through persecution can, or can not, relate to the reasons or rationale of why the persecution. Further, the reasons why the persecution is created can be compounded with various individual dynamics, and the evolutionary necessity to evolve beyond such dynamics. This can include naivete, idealization of people, emotional dependence on other's views, unawareness of intelelectual or psychological limitations of other people, etc., etc., or a need to evolve beyond the self-persecutory psychology, or an overly analitic psychology which biases self-understanding, which creates the vibration, and the potential dynamics in socialization, that will induce the experience of external persecution.

God Bless, Gonzalo

Hi All

Thanks for the valuable feedback. All the responses here  is really adding more depth to my understanding.

QuoteIn my view, experiences of persecution can be also ignited simply by differentness relative to the social context. Within this, natural desires to improve or revolutionize the social context serves by itself to create persecution, relative to the nature of these times. Here the persecution serves as a means to induce an awareness of such differentness, and/or about the specific social context the individual operates within

If the natural desire to improve the social context by means of communicating natural truth (taking the Soul to be in Spiritual Level) is in a way linked with the individuals evolutionary journey ,ie for example pluto polarity or north node in 3th house or gemini ,and the soul is also AWARE of the difference relate to social context and thus in a way  keep his communication (Gemini or 3rd house PPP ) to a minimum. Thus in a way, beyond his choice, needs to slow down his evolutionary journey (communication) .Then does it a call for the soul to integrate into consensus reality and thus to learn the lesson of bringing balance between spirit and matter - experiencing Gemini in a consensus way(flexibility,motor skills,modernization) . The point is as one go up  the evolutionary ladder there is a evidence of imbalance between spirit and matter .So is there a lesson in the spiritual state asking for balance of spirit and matter.

Thank you
Sree

Hi Sree,

In any evolutionary condition the Soul needs to integrate into the consensus reality. Even living within the context of natural law such as in a tribal community there is still a consensus reality. With the North node or PPP in the Third house, the Soul will need to learn to improve upon its communicative skills and learn to listen to the opinions and ideas of others in order to move beyond potential limitations within its belief system, since the Soul is coming from the Ninth house, evolutionarily speaking.

I´m not sure if there is an imbalance between spirit and matter as one moves up the evolutionary ladder but what there can be is a difficulty in integrating within consensus realities that are distorted and are based on materialism, illusions of all sorts, people seeing themselves as consumers etc. I would think the balance is more between actual truth as it is and distorted truth as seen by the consensus belief systems.

Another difficulty as one moves up the evolutionary ladder can be one of being overly sensitive to the distortions of the consensus society, seeing nature, animals and people suffer in ways that are not necessary or natural, living in polluted areas and having to deal with the negative emotions of others are just some possible difficulties in integrating into society in a balanced way as the sensitive or empathic individual can be totally overwhelmed by such dynamics.

All the best

Hi Sree,

Here's other thoughts.

QuoteIf the natural desire to improve the social context by means of communicating natural truth (taking the Soul to be in Spiritual Level) is in a way linked with the individuals evolutionary journey ,ie for example pluto polarity or north node in 3th house or gemini ,and the soul is also AWARE of the difference relate to social context and thus in a way  keep his communication (Gemini or 3rd house PPP ) to a minimum. Thus in a way, beyond his choice, needs to slow down his evolutionary journey (communication) .Then does it a call for the soul to integrate into consensus reality and thus to learn the lesson of bringing balance between spirit and matter - experiencing Gemini in a consensus way(flexibility,motor skills,modernization) . The point is as one go up  the evolutionary ladder there is a evidence of imbalance between spirit and matter .So is there a lesson in the spiritual state asking for balance of spirit and matter.

I'm not sure if this can be simply explained in terms of balance between spirit and matter. It can be explained in terms of outer versus inner reality. The outer communication may become reduced in the example you mention, and in that case, the inner communication will be increased. There will be an increased 'duality' -Gemini-originating in the increased consciousness relative to the outer social context. Like Jesus openly saying 'Father, will you listen to me?' and then telling his disciples 'I know the Father always listens to me, but I say this so that they know that You have sent me'. An increased complexity of meaning for the communication is implied. Complexity of meaning, because of the awareness of the impact of words/messages relative to the evolutionary states of others in the social context, does in turn involve an increased complexity of the inner connections or inner communication at the level of neurons in the brain for example. Thus, more connectivity or complexity relative to a a same structure.

God Bless,
Gonzalo

   

Hi Skywalker

Clearly written about the difficulties spiritual state soul face with regards to integrating within consensus realities.

Hi Gonzalo

Never thought of such dynamics of inner communication .

I think same dynamics also exist when one have a Retrograde Mercury and also when a soul after many life time born to a entirely different culture (language structure)

When i wrote about balance between spirit and matter what was in my mind is that when we go up the spiritual ladder ,due to distorted social context ,we are more getting connected(or we have connected) with source that is of the heaven - ie air and fire energy becomes the main channel of connection.The source which is mother earth and its expression is different than heavenly god .you need to really use your earth and water(body and emotion) skills to work and be with the imperfection of nature ,rather than fighting and dominating ,and thus result in developing more tolerance,compassion within.

In the ancient time when people lived in harmony with natural laws ,the basic trigger for the ego to have separate desire may be due to the challenge nature itself produce as a result of its imperfection ;which slowly lead to control and dominance of nature ,and now to huge exploitation.One need lot of patience,compassion and tolerance to work with nature rather than fighting it .That is working with nature in itself is a spiritual practice .So the difficulty to integrate to consensus reality may be a call to work with nature - matter.And thus experience spiritual growth in that form.

I don't Know whether it makes sense with what i wrote.Just wrote what i felt ,may be i am influenced by  the philosophy of Masanobu Fukuoka - The One-Straw Revolution .

I have read somewhere here in which JWG mentioned about Heavenly ( of the sky )and earthly God .Cant find where .Is he by saying Heavenly God points to man made religious God (Distored) or anything else ,and then what about Earthly God .

Thank you
Sree

Hi Sree,

To my knowledge there is no spirit vs matter as matter comes from spirit. It´s a patriarchal distortion that has been in place for thousands of  years. Spirit expresses itself thru matter in this material plane of existence. The church saying woman is the downfall of man and that the flesh and sexuality is dirty and impure etc is just one prime example of this distorted belief. These types of beliefs that distort human nature creates un-natural guilt that leads to un-natural judgements, and all sorts of distorted dynamics within personal relationships between humans, and the relationship between humans and nature, which is what led to humans dominating nature in the ways we have.

What JWG taught is that in ancient times mankind lived in harmony with nature and natural law until humans started to distort their natural roles.

All the best

Hi Sree,

QuoteWhen i wrote about balance between spirit and matter what was in my mind is that when we go up the spiritual ladder ,due to distorted social context ,we are more getting connected(or we have connected) with source that is of the heaven - ie air and fire energy becomes the main channel of connection.The source which is mother earth and its expression is different than heavenly god .you need to really use your earth and water(body and emotion) skills to work and be with the imperfection of nature ,rather than fighting and dominating ,and thus result in developing more tolerance,compassion within.

In the ancient time when people lived in harmony with natural laws ,the basic trigger for the ego to have separate desire may be due to the challenge nature itself produce as a result of its imperfection ;which slowly lead to control and dominance of nature ,and now to huge exploitation.One need lot of patience,compassion and tolerance to work with nature rather than fighting it .That is working with nature in itself is a spiritual practice .So the difficulty to integrate to consensus reality may be a call to work with nature - matter.And thus experience spiritual growth in that form.

I don't Know whether it makes sense with what i wrote.Just wrote what i felt ,may be i am influenced by  the philosophy of Masanobu Fukuoka - The One-Straw Revolution .

I have read somewhere here in which JWG mentioned about Heavenly ( of the sky )and earthly God .Cant find where .Is he by saying Heavenly God points to man made religious God (Distored) or anything else, and then what about Earthly God .

Yes, EA teaches that in natural times the human species lived in attunement and connection with Nature and Natural laws. Nature itself was sacred, and thus, there was no conflict between Spirit and Nature, or between high and low, or between the life of the senses or the flesh, and spiritual life.

In Patriarchy, beginning around 6.500 BC, men introduced an artificial conflict between the Spirit and the senses. This conflict involved a devaluation of the feminine within human nature: the senses, the body, emotion, sexuality, women. Same time, the mind, intellect, Spirit, and the male form, were seen as 'superior' to the feminine. This artificial conflict has many deep manifestations. It is the root cause for long-standing permeating sadomasochistic patterns in relationships between men and women. It is the root cause for sexual distortions and sexual violence that did not exist in natural times. It is the root cause for the predation of Nature and the destruction of the planet, versus the consciousness that existed in natural times of the interconnectedness of all beings. It is, further, the root cause for the delusory sense of separation at an egocentric level in so many Souls which are only concerned about their individual self-interest. We can see how this manifestation occurred as a consequence of how the natural childrearing practices which were at the core of the matriarchy were replaced by beliefs about how children should be reared: by means of 'discipline' and artificial regulation.

As a result of such incepted conflict between the high and low, men created beliefs around heavenly gods, representing a superior, higher and 'transcendent' reality. In Natural times, again, Spirit was experienced 'within' the embodied, immanent natural life.

In current times, the South Nodes of Pluto, Saturn and Jupiter are in Capricorn for all Souls on the planet, reflecting the collective impact of the patriarchal ways in the human species. The north nodes of these planets are in Cancer, pointing the way back to our matriarchal biological nature. Within this, the ongoing intention to integrate the emotional nature, and to discover Spirit within is also indicated by these symbols at a collective level.

Jeffrey Wolf Green wrote extensively about this historical data in books like Pluto II, The Soul's Evolution through Relationships. This understanding is at the core of EA.

God Bless,
Gonzalo

Hi

I was thinking whether to write or not ( I have Mercury conjunct Chiron,Mercury ruler of NN - lots of fear with Communication)  but as one leads to another i think it will be ok. Also it was a surprise to see Gonzalo wrote ,about the conflict between Woman and Transcendence ,and here i am having a real life experience to what he wrote - Tv Channel is flooded with this news.

QuoteAs a result of such incepted conflict between the high and low, men created beliefs around heavenly gods, representing a superior, higher and 'transcendent' reality. In Natural times, again, Spirit was experienced 'within' the embodied, immanent natural life  

September 26, 2015
Woman translator Sridevi S Kartha was asked to keep off the dais of a function where the book written by APJ Abdul Kalam (Former Indian President) ,about his spiritual experience with Pramukh Swamiji,will be released by Brahma Vihari Das Swamiji as the representative of Pramukh Swamiji.

See the book title - Transcendence My Spiritual Experience with Pramukh Swamiji

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/150926/nation-current-affairs/article/kalam%E2%80%99s-woman-translator-barred-book-release

Thank you
Sree

Hi Skywalker

QuoteIn any evolutionary condition the Soul needs to integrate into the consensus reality. Even living within the context of natural law such as in a tribal community there is still a consensus reality

You wrote about the Consensus reality that exist in tribal community that follow natural laws .I have few question about consensus reality that exist in matriarchy period.

I doubt, the consensus reality that exist in matriarchy period may be completely different than we have now in this patriarchy period.I even doubt if such a clear structural division of Consensus , Individual, Spiritual state exist in matriarchy period - as ,they are living close to natural law ,the pace of evolution to every soul born for the first time in human dimension is always highly accelerated in such society.And in our society (Patriarchy) whenever a new soul is born into dim consciousness state, the soul will take huge time to evolve to higher state or to decode natural laws and live it.

So my question is that in matriarchy society do there exist this Consensus,Individual,Spiritual levels - especially when we thing with respect to the opportunity a soul have as part of matriarchy structure for accelerated growth.

If it exist then also the pace by which a soul can grow will be much faster than our society - am i right? ... the structure of the society we live now is such that it is full of opportunity to keep the separate desire going or minimum to keep it confused

Then if there is such a accelerate pace of growth in matriarchy society, surely we will find more souls in spiritual state than consensus state ;always waiting for those new souls born to dim consciousness state to make them growth to their natural state - am i right ?
Also in our present society when a soul is born for the first time from other kingdom ,do they naturally get born to dim consciousness state or not.Do these soul have any Karma from other Kingdom.

Do we now have tribal community that follow natural laws .

Finally all this question arise as a result of feel that it looks highly unfair for any  soul born for the first time in human dimension to have dim consciousness and that too need to live in a Patriarchy period - isn't it too hard.

Any Insight will be helpful....

Thank you
Sree

Hi Sree,

"I doubt, the consensus reality that exist in matriarchy period may be completely different than we have now in this patriarchy period.I even doubt if such a clear structural division of Consensus , Individual, Spiritual state exist in matriarchy period - as ,they are living close to natural law ,the pace of evolution to every soul born for the first time in human dimension is always highly accelerated in such society.And in our society (Patriarchy) whenever a new soul is born into dim consciousness state, the soul will take huge time to evolve to higher state or to decode natural laws and live it."

In Matriarchal times or societies the core difference between the way we live now, to me, would be that in those societies nature would not be abused in the way that we abuse her now. Humans would live more balanced from within their own natural male and female principles. We all have masculine and feminine energies and the problem with the way we live now is the over assertion and distortion of the masculine energies which then in turn also distorts the female side of how we live express ourselves and thus live our lives. In Matriarchal times or societies there would be a tendency towards more unity and less focus on individual self serving at the expense of the whole community or planet as we have now.

What you stated about the pace of evolution is your assumption but not necessarily true. The rate of evolution a Soul evolves at is dependent on itself from what I understand, and all Souls develop at their own rate. In any society, Matriarchal or not, past or present, there are evolutionary levels that are natural because of the natural evolutionary pace of individual Souls. If you go deep into the Amazon and find a tribe that live in total harmony with nature and natural law, there will still be differences in evolutionary levels of awareness because these are their individual consciousnesses. The difference will be in the way they live, it will be healthier, less distorted, totally in tune with nature and natural law which will allow for a connection to the Earth, which they are a living part of as opposed to us, as we consume the Earth.

"So my question is that in matriarchy society do there exist this Consensus,Individual,Spiritual levels - especially when we thing with respect to the opportunity a soul have as part of matriarchy structure for accelerated growth.

If it exist then also the pace by which a soul can grow will be much faster than our society - am i right? ... the structure of the society we live now is such that it is full of opportunity to keep the separate desire going or minimum to keep it confused."

Again, the pace of evolution is not dependent on the society it finds itself in but is determined by the Soul itself. The separating desires that emanate from within the Soul and are not dependent on the external environment or society. As the Soul exhausts its desires it begins to desire to return home from where it originated.


"Then if there is such a accelerate pace of growth in matriarchy society, surely we will find more souls in spiritual state than consensus state ;always waiting for those new souls born to dim consciousness state to make them growth to their natural state - am i right ? "

Not in my understanding.

"Also in our present society when a soul is born for the first time from other kingdom ,do they naturally get born to dim consciousness state or not.Do these soul have any Karma from other Kingdom."

Yes from what I understand as Souls move into human form they are born into the dimly evolved state, and all Souls have their past desires and past actions, which then determines their karma and evolutionary necessity at the present moment.

"Do we now have tribal community that follow natural laws ."

Yes like in remote areas such as in the Amazon jungle and others such  remote places around the world. There are also each time more communities around the world, made of people which come from cities, which desire to return to more ecological and natural ways of living.

"Finally all this question arise as a result of feel that it looks highly unfair for any  soul born for the first time in human dimension to have dim consciousness and that too need to live in a Patriarchy period - isn't it too hard."

It is hard but obviously not too hard or else it wouldn´t be the way it is. If it´s hard for humans to integrate in such a period as defined by the Patriarchy then what about animals that have even less of an ability to understand the distortions of the world?

What it boils down to is the fact that we are Souls inhabiting the Earth and things are not supposed to be perfect or fair from the point of view of the ego or make sense even at times, but we are here to experience life and evolve thru the emotions those experiences generate. What evolves is the Soul and there can be highly extreme situations from the point of view of the ego living the life but the fact is that the Soul uses those experiences to evolve.

All the best

"So my question is that in matriarchy society do there exist this Consensus,Individual,Spiritual levels - especially when we thing with respect to the opportunity a soul have as part of matriarchy structure for accelerated growth."

Sometimes I wonder if "evolution" is an illusion. When thinking about how things were during the matriarchy vs how they are during the patriarchy, it seems to me that we have devolved rather than evolved. It's something I think about from time to time.

One of the things I have learned over time is that everything occurs in cycles. This would apply to evolution as it does to everything. It is very likely that we experience cycles of evolution followed by devolution and then repeat this over and over again.

As for the soul, is it not perfect? Does it only become imperfect when it chooses to incarnate in this world and/or other worlds? Once it chooses to incarnate it becomes part of a world which is really an illusion created by the collective consciousness of its members. It is this collective consciousness and the individual consciousness of each individual within it that seems to evolve and/or de-evolve until such time that it manages to rreturn to the source and experience itself as its perfect self again.

Hi Cat,

Things do operate in cycles to my knowledge. It´s the yugas, yet I don´t think there is de-evolution because it´s not like we gain awareness in the rising part of the cycle to then lose awareness. What makes sense to me is that these are universal cycles that mankind goes thru, and as souls we grow thru being alive in all stages of the yugas or in specific stages as necessary to the individual needs of each soul. So it´s not like we go round and round the yugas becoming more aware to then lose all that awareness cyclically, in my understanding at least. What would be the point of that? We grow in awareness no matter where we are in the yuga cycle and in our evolutionary process. The objective is to refine ourselves to the point that we no longer need to come back to earth for our evolution and can move on to other planes of existence.

About evolution being an illusion, all you need to validate evolution as fact is to observe yourself and your personal journey, either thru this life or thru various lives. What evolves is the individual awareness thru the emotions which also evolve. Isn´t maturing emotionally an evolutionary progression? The thing is that evolution isn´t necessarily linear and what evolves essentially is the soul/individual consciousness itself. This evolution takes a very long time because of the past that is familiar to us and conditions us, and because of our desire natures which are all over the place. If we would have the single desire to evolve and act upon those desires then evolution would be much much faster. It really is a matter of desire and conditioning that comes from within and is reflected in the outer environment. In that sense yes it is all Maya or illusion as many say, yet that illusion persists why? To me, because our consciousness has focused, evolved and crystallized into what we are today and there are all of these attachments to layers of beliefs that hold our reality together. Again, by removing the false beliefs and simply turning inwards to whatever is actually there, we evolve our awareness back to where we came from. And the whole process of separating from the Source to then return is the process of awakening from ignorance and evolving our awareness to what it is, awareness as co creators. Co creators as awareness itself and not human or animal or alien, because all there is in essence is awareness or consciousness or the Source. If we were perfect then why even incarnate and go thru all the hassle? Why suffer? What is perfection anyway and as compared to what? To me perfection is relative to something else or perfect because whatever is perfect serves a specific purpose to a "T" and needs no further refinement. As JWG taught, the Source itself isn´t perfect and all experiences of any conscious being, compound on those experiences, leading to knowledge and an increased awareness of itself, with accompanied emotions that change and mature. Isn´t that evolution?

This is my understanding, it isn´t total or "perfect" but the understanding itself is evolving.

All the best

Hi Skywalker,

Wonderful what you wrote. To me the most simple thing to understand/know, not believe, is the the root or essence in the Manifest Creation is consciousness itself. This being the root of the Manifest Creation, the Cause of Source Of All Things, we can now know that evolution is a function of consciousness through form becoming aware of itself as being conscious. As this NATURALLY occurs or evolves it is thus a matter of all the forms of consciousness throughout the Manifest Creation becoming, through natural evolution, aware of the Source of all consciousness. For this to naturally occur evolution is always interfacing with INVOLUTION: the destruction of something, dynamics, that need to be destroyed in order for an evolution to take place.

This simple and natural truth can be known by any self objectified consciousness. Until it is known, until a self objectified consciousness desires to know this natural underlying natural law or truth, and makes the effort to do so, it is simply reduced to guessing at what things mean or may not mean, reduced to dialing through learned 'beliefs' that have been projected by consciousness upon the phenomenal nature of the Manifest Creation, where such projected beliefs or ideational speculations/spluttering are considered as possible truths or natural laws when in fact that, of course, they are not.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Skywalker

QuoteIt is hard but obviously not too hard or else it wouldn´t be the way it is.

Ok ,now i see that it is not too hard , when i wrote too hard my focus was on souls( dim state) who are having huge suffering ,now i also see that there are  souls in the dim level who are moving up (growing) in a more healthy way.I think those dim state souls who are having huge suffering are the ones who may have de- evolved due to prior life karma.I also think that a "new soul" born to dim state for the first time is with the advantage that they do not have the "burden of past life karma" ,along with a natural raw energy to experience life without much thinking - may be it is felt like having huge physical tolerance. By looking at the evolutionary ladder, where new souls gets born to human state for the first time with a consciousness  that is survival base and thus easily take away what authorities (old souls) project ,i am thinking about the responsibility this old souls have in itself,and also how in patriarch system these old souls fails to show those responsibility.So my question is that is it a common think to have souls under go de evolution or is it a rare thing.How do one identify a new soul from a soul that has reached that state through de evolving.

Thank you
sree

Hi Sree,

This is taken from the description of the dimly evolved state: 

The Dimly Evolved State: Souls that are evolving into human consciousness from other forms of life, typically animal and plant (animals and plants essentially have the same 'emotional' and "˜nervous' systems as humans) are characterized by a very limited sense of self-awareness. This self-awareness is typically limited to the time and space that they personally occupy. When one looks into such Souls eyes they typically express a "˜density' within the pupils, like a film effect within the pupils. These Souls are typically very joyous; very, very innocent; and can bring great love to those who are close to them. Modern terminology that reflects these types of Souls are words like critinism, very low i.q.'s, mongoloidism, metal retardation, and the like.
The root desire within this evolutionary stage or state is the desire to be "˜normal', where normal means to be like most other people: the consensus state.
Conversely, it can occur, due to "˜karmic' causes, that Souls can be de-evolved; which means that such Souls are forced back into this state. This then becomes very problematic for such Souls, because they had previously evolved beyond this stage. Thus, such Soul now experience great and humiliating "˜limitations' because of the de-evolution. As a result, these Souls are very, very angry, and some can go about creating great disturbances for other people. These souls can also be "˜classified' through the modern terminology as above. But the great difference is that when one looks into the pupil of these Souls' eyes, one will notice a great while light manifesting from the pupil: piercing like. And within that light one will inwardly experience the intense anger within such a Soul.

To answer your question, I don´t know exactly how common it is percentage wise but I don´t think it´s very common that a Soul is forced back like that.

All the best

Hi Sree,

QuoteLet me jump in here and say that martyrdom, being a martyr, does not occur in natural law. It only occurs when natural laws are distorted and/ or suppressed.

Is Martyrdom as a result of spiritual masochism part of natural law.Surely, it is a choice the soul takes to sacrifice for the benefit of others

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Yes, of course. But these terms like martydom and masochism were never words or ideas that would occur in humans living by way of natural laws. When self sacrifice for the whole needed to take place it simply would. A simple example would be an aging member of some tribe like the Eskimos who would, of themself, walk out into the freezing night and let themselves go

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.Is that choice unnatural

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No

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"Do there a Karmic (evolutionary ) pace for every occurrence (action and reaction) in existence.

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I don't have any idea what you mean by this.

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Is spiritual masochism some how is distorting this karmic pace of action and reaction; and thus to seek for a perfect world.Is there a delusion of perfect world that result in spiritual masochism.

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No

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad

QuoteYes, of course. But these terms like martyrdom and masochism were never words of ideas that would occur in humans living by way of natural laws. When self sacrifice for the whole needed to take place it simply would

The "pure giving" by the soul ( as part of spiritual masochism ) in some social - religious context gets accepted without huge rejection,while for some other souls (spiritual level) in some other social - religious context it gets highly opposed leading to  martyrdom.So why, different souls ends up in different social - religious environments.Is it because the social religious environment where one gets born (or reach) is as a result of once own individual karmic and evolutionary past or is the social religious environment  to which the soul gets born ( or reach) is also a conscious choice by the soul as that of conscious choice to sacrifice.

Thank you
Sree

Hi Sree,

All Souls create whatever lives they need to create, all the circumstances of, for their specific karmic and evolutionary needs. Thus, all Souls are responsible for that which they do create.

God Bless, Rad