School of Evolutionary Astrology Forum

Hi All,

Been thinking about starting a new thread that would deal with how to understand and apply the Planetary Nodes in Evolutionary Astrology. Beyond the conceptual understanding of the Planetary Nodes, which is essential of course, I would like to apply that understanding to actual birth charts. So if you would like to participate in this journey/ thread please let me know.

God Bless, Rad

Yes, I would like to participate. This is an area that is quite new to me - and I would love to learn more about it. Thank you Rad.

This is a blessing Rad. I am interested in this. Thank you so much for this offer!
God Bless,
Ari Moshe

Funny, I was hoping for this --just thinking over the last few days that I was going to put together something in writing for myself to work with the Nodes, through each house pair, on a very deep level. So very interesting indeed, you should suggest this Rad. Thank you. So yes, I am interested.

In The Deepest Love,
Dhyana

ps. i will definately be reading this topic, and hopefully able to participate too.

Hi Rad,

I'm a bit sidelined healthwise at the moment, but I think this is a great topic and would try and tag along as best I could even if that might not be very much.

thanks and blessings, Upasika

Hi Rad,

Great idea, thanks.  I am interested and I have just moved, so I am unsure of my time to commit to this.  However, seeing as my timing has been fine in the practice charts, it may work out just fine.  I will communicate accordingly.

Also, wanted to share that I've at last been reading Pluto II and have progressed into the relationship dvds.
Excited to continue the journey. 
Thanks for all your support.

Goddess Bless,
Bradley

Hi Rad,
Not sure what happened to my post, but I'm very interested in this topic and so thankful that you have brought it up.  I will most likely just be reading along.  I am ever hopeful that I will find a way to manage my life/time at this time to allow formal ea study, but so far, with school, not able to do.  Looking forward to the discussion, though.

Peace,
Ellen

I don't know enough to contribute, but as always will love to read and absorb what is put up and commented on  :).

All,

Ok, here is the conceptual basis for  understanding the Planetary Nodes. For those who are wishing to participate in this thread please read through it. If you don't understand something then please post to me whatever your question is. Once we get through the initial understanding of the Planetary Nodes then we can begin to apply that understanding to actual charts. God Bless, Rad

                                  THE USE AND FUNCTION OF PLANETARY NODES

Any natal planet will have it's own North and South nodes. The natal planets correlate to the current life of course. Yet each one of these planets have a past that has brought it to the current life. And that past is defined by not only the actual house and sign of the natal planet, but also it's own S.Node. Thus, the relationship between the natal planet by house, sign, and aspects correlates to the totality of it's past that directly correlates to how and why it has come into the current life: the past that has lead to the current moment, one's current life. So, in essence, the natal planet by house, sign, and aspect, relative to it's S.Node, is the totality of that past that has lead to the current moment, the current life. This is no different that the S.Node of the Moon, and the current natal Moon in one's birth chart. All the prior life egocentric structures created by the Soul that have correlated to prior live evolutionary dynamics that have lead to the current life, the current egocentric structure that has been created because of the totality of the past. The current life Moon sign is the bridge between the past and the future, it's N.Node, as integrated and lived on a moment to moment basis in the context of the current life. Thus, the current life Moon by house, sign, and aspects, relative to it's Nodes, and the planetary ruler of those Nodes by their own house and sign locations, the aspects to them, is the constant that evolves within itself as a reflection of this dynamic tension between the past and the future as integrated in each moment of our life.

This is exactly the same for all of our planets. They are in their own houses and signs, making whatever aspects to other planets, that have all contributed to the past life development of those planets that constitute the existing reality for any of us at the moment of birth. The S.Nodes of these planets, like the S.Node of the Moon, correlates to the history of those planets at different points in time. This correlates to the inner memories in any of our Souls that have all lead to the orientation of our Soul's to the current life that we are living, the very reasons for the current life in all of it's dimensions that must keep evolving, keep moving towards a future that is reflected in the ongoing evolutionary intentions for our Souls.

All planets have their N.Nodes, just as the Moon does. The N.Node of these planets, like the Moon, correlates to the evolutionary progression and development of those planets. The natal position of the whatever planet, like the Moon, correlates to how the dynamic tension of our past and future is lived and integrated in each moment of our life. In essence, our past leads to the current moment, and that current moment is always moving towards a future. We can only know that there is in fact a future because we have had a past. The past leading to the moment is that which serves as the way any of us integrate, and move forwards into our future, where that future is the evolutionary intentions for our current life. Thus, the N.Nodes of the planets serve as the vehicles for the evolutionary future to manifest which is integrated in each moment by natal position of those planets.

The Nodes of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto move very, very slowly over great lengths of time. Thus, they have a generational as well as an individual application. Individual because they will be in each person's natal chart somewhere that is unique to that person. Yet generational because they are in the same sign for all of us. The S.Nodes of Pluto, Jupiter, and Saturn  are in Capricorn for all us. The N.Nodes in Cancer for all of us. Historically speaking, the S.Nodes of these planets are in Capricorn, And that is the time frame in which the transition between the Matriarchy and the Patriarchy occurred. All Souls on Earth as a result are linked to that time whether they actually lived at that time or not. It is the COLLECTIVE MEMORY of that time that all Souls will draw upon as reflected in the current life they are living. So too with the S.Node of Uranus which will be in Sagittarius for all of us, it's N.Node in Gemini. And the S.Node of Neptune is in Aquarius for all of us, and it's N.Node in Leo. The N.Nodes of all of these planets thus correlate to all peoples living on the planet now. They correlate to the evolutionary intentions for the entire species as that species, human beings, continue to evolve as a species. And, of course, the ongoing evolutionary intentions and necessities of the species can only be understood in direct relationship the past of that species: the S.Nodes.

Mars, Mercury, and Venus and their Nodes move through the signs much more quickly that the outer planets do. And these planets all correlate to that which is highly personal and unique to each Soul, it's own individual reality that exists within the context of living with all the other humans that are living at the same time. The same principles of the past leading to the moment,  and how that moment moves to the future applies in these Nodes as well of course. The natal sign of these planets is that which is the constant, that which integrates the dynamic tension between the past and the future that is experienced in each moment. This then allows for an evolution to take place within the natal sign and house of these planets. Nothing is ever static. Everything evolves.

In doing Evolutionary Astrology, as we can see, it is essential that we are able to see and deal with the various dimensions of time, and how those various dimensions of time, specific time frames, that correlate to specific lifetimes and the reasons for those lifetimes, interface and interact within themselves. It is this that correlates in each Soul's inner reality about the nature of it's own evolution through time. It is this that correlates to the specific nature of each Soul: it's own unique prior lifetimes, and the reasons for them that have been created through the vehicle of desires. It is this that allows us to understand the nature of the CURRENT LIFE, AND WHY THE CURRENT LIFE. And, it is this that allows us to understand the evolutionary intentions for any Soul, it own next steps as reflected in the N.Nodes of the planets. When all of this is understood through the core evolutionary paradigm for all charts, the natal Pluto, it's polarity point, the N and S Nodes of the Moon, the location of it's planetary rulers, then a total understanding of any Souls evolutionary journey can be understood.

Rad that was the most clear description I have ever read, thank you so much for writing that out.

On the planetary nodes dvd someone asked JWG if he would explain "how" he came to associate all the sn's in Capricorn to the transition from Matriarchy to Patriarchy- "why that parituclar time period?" JWG responded something of the nature that it would take too long to explain how he figured that out.

I was wondering if this is something we can explore here. Does this have to do with geodetic equivalents? If so, then I should probably educate myself more about that first...
Thank you,
Ari Moshe

Hi Rad,

I too would like to follow and participate in this thread.  One question, will we need astrological software to determine the nodes of planets?

Thanks,
Wendy

Quote from: Wendy on Oct 04, 2010, 06:43 PM
Hi Rad,

I too would like to follow and participate in this thread.  One question, will we need astrological software to determine the nodes of planets?

Thanks,
Wendy

hi Rad,

OHHHH --after reading Wendy's message I realized that this topic isnt about what i thought it was going to be about.  I though it was going to be about the  NN and the SN and moving all through the house pairs.

But now I see you mean the Nodes of Each Planet!

OOPS, sorry for my  mis-interpreting the topic.

I don't think I am ready to participate in this thread yet bc I am still just grasping the basics.

But I'm sure I will pop in to read it from time to time and will be nice to know it is here in the archives for when I get that far into my studies

Thanks for understanding
Dhyana

Hi Wendy,

QuoteI too would like to follow and participate in this thread.  One question, will we need astrological software to determine the nodes of planets?

Nope, there's a site that you can get it for free. This an asteroid ephemeris Steve posted in the MISC section. This ephemeris also provides the north and south node of any celestial body.

http://www.true-node.com/eph1/  (http://www.true-node.com/eph1/)
Ari Moshe

Quote from: ari moshe on Oct 04, 2010, 10:11 PM
Hi Wendy,

QuoteI too would like to follow and participate in this thread.  One question, will we need astrological software to determine the nodes of planets?

Nope, there's a site that you can get it for free. This an asteroid ephemeris Steve posted in the MISC section. This ephemeris also provides the north and south node of any celestial body.

http://www.true-node.com/eph1/  (http://www.true-node.com/eph1/)
Ari Moshe

Really!  So cool.  I have been wondering about several planets on my chart and didn't know how to figure the nodal relationships.

Thanks Ari!

hi

also, any necessary charts can be posted here for download with the planetary nodes included.  I have Solar Fire set up to display all planetary nodes in an outer ring around the main circle of planets
Steve

Hi Ari,

The DVD with the planetary nodes lecture was made while JWG was lecturing in Holland. I was there so remember what he said, which is also on the DVD obviously. What he said when asked was that the correlation to those Nodes and the transition to the patriarchy, from the matriarchy, was based on the astrological ages, and their sub ages. Thus, what we have also talked about here on this message board many times, the transition beginning at the very end of the Capricorn sub-age of the Cancer age. Thus the S.Nodes of Pluto, Saturn, and Jupiter in the sign Capricorn.

God Bless, Rad

Just like the Moon's Nodes and the Precession of the Equinoxes, is it correct that the Planetary Nodes, as well, move in a retrograde motion through the chart?  The answer is probably "yes," but just checking.

Quote from: Rad on Oct 05, 2010, 08:45 AM
Hi Ari,

What he said when asked was that the correlation to those Nodes and the transition to the patriarchy, from the matriarchy, was based on the astrological ages, and their sub ages. Thus, what we have also talked about here on this message board many times, the transition beginning at the very end of the Capricorn sub-age of the Cancer age. Thus the S.Nodes of Pluto, Saturn, and Jupiter in the sign Capricorn.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

This is tremendously insightful for me.  Regardles of, for example, the sign that Pluto is in for a generation, ultimately, everyone in that generation is still working out the matriarchy to patriarchy transition and all that that entailed.   So, the women of the Pluto in Cancer generation, if I remember JWG correctly, experienced inwardly rage at the patriarchal roles they were living out.  The Pluto in Leo generation expended their energy breaking free from these roles, working on self-empowerment.  The Pluto Virgo generation has been working through all of the health issues associated with the distoritions and, presumably, attempting to repurifiy.  Pluto Libra, rebalancing relationships...etc.

Is this correct..or on the right track? And same would also hold for Jupiter and Saturn, yes?

Hi Linda,

There is a natural progressive cycle to the planetary nodes, meaning forwards through the zodiac. Yet they can also go in retrograde motion at different parts of the year, and the overall cycle of each planetary node. But the mean motion in forwards, not retrograde as in the Moon's nodes. You can even have a situation, due to the irregular planetary motion of the planets, where the, for example, the S.Node of Mars can be retro, yet it's N.Node is not. One needs to look into the tables for the planetary nodes in Solar Fire, for example, to see all this.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Ellen,

You are generally right, yet we must also remember the four natural evolutionary conditions for the Soul. So in what you presented that would be generally true in those generations for the Soul's that were in the first individuated state and beyond.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Gonzalo,

Quote from: gonzalopan on Oct 05, 2010, 09:00 AM
Hi Rad,

According to Solar Fire the South Node of Jupiter is now at 29°44'Sagittarius. It entered Sagittarius on 3 September 2010, and will go back into Capricorn on 10 October. It does so yearly since long ago, though the time it spends in Capricorn has been augmenting progressively while the time it spends in Sagittarius has been decreasing: when the South Node of Jupiter entered Capricorn for first time in this cycle on 23 March 142 BC, it stayed in Capricorn only for three days. At the current time it is spending less than forty days only in Sagittarius, and the rest of the year in Capricorn. North Node of Jupiter first entered Cancer on 23 September 119 BC, for four days, and currently the North Node if Jupiter still stays in Gemini for less than forty days.  I have seen some charts with these symbols.

Do you consider these calculations/ephemeris correct?

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Yes. There is a progressive movement of the planetary nodes  through the zodiac at their mean motions. Of course they can go retrograde at times, yet the mean motion is progressive or forwards.

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Are there any observed correlations with this movement of the Nodes of Jupiter, between Capricorn and Sagittarius?

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One would have to observe this, and correlate it, to one's own work with clients. Beyond that, study those points in history itself to make such correlations via the observation of what was actually happening on the planet during those times.

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Would the charts for the moment of the first entrance of these Nodes in Capricorn and Cancer serve to understand their archetypal intent?

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Yes.

*********************************************************************

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

QuoteHi Ari,

What he said when asked was that the correlation to those Nodes and the transition to the patriarchy, from the matriarchy, was based on the astrological ages, and their sub ages. Thus, what we have also talked about here on this message board many times, the transition beginning at the very end of the Capricorn sub-age of the Cancer age. Thus the S.Nodes of Pluto, Saturn, and Jupiter in the sign Capricorn.

God Bless, Rad

Yes, that I do understand. I'll rephrase my question:
My question is why do we make that correlation? Why are planetary nodes correlated to the astrological ages and their sub ages? In other words what is the intuitive logic that connects these two astronomical phenomona to one another? And furthermore, why do these sn's in Capricorn correlate to the transition to patriarchy that occured at the end of the Capricorn sub age of the Cancer age?
Thank you Rad, I hope that makes sense. Bless,
Ari Moshe

All,

Here is something about the planetary nodes that we can all consider. Most of you will remember, when we talked about the structure of the Soul many months ago now, that I pointed out that it takes 24,000 years for the Nodes of Pluto to go through the entire zodiac: one astrological age. What is really incredible when you start to think about it is that the Nodes of Mars also takes 24,000 year for them to move through all the signs in the zodiac. They spend about 4,000 years in three signs, then another 3 signs for another 4,000 years, etc. For example, the S.Nodes of Mars since 500 A.D. have been in Libra, Scorpio, and Sagittarius depending on the time of year, in any given year. And, the N.Nodes are Aries, Taurus, and Gemini. This will remain in those signs until 4,300 A.D. So there are two things to ponder in this. One is the fact that, as we know, the lower octave of Pluto is Mars of course. Pluto is the underlying natural law of evolution for all things, including humans. And Mars instinctually  acts out those evolutionary imperatives through the various forms of life, including human.

So the questions become why does Mars stay in three signs and their polarities, in any given year, for over 4,000 years ? What is the symbolism for collective and individual evolution here ? The meaning of it ? And of course the phenomena of the 24,000 year cycle of an astrological age with both the Nodes of Pluto and Mars taking that amount of time to go through all twelve signs in the zodiac ?

God Bless, Rad

Hi Ari,

Because of the natural progression of the astrological ages through time. Thus, the alignment of the Capricorn sub-age within the age of Cancer. That time frame, the actual his/herstory of the planet correlates to that transition time between the matriarchy to the patriarchy. Cancer and Capricorn of course correlate to the male and female gender, and gender assignment issues within that. This is no different than, for example, Jesus who had Pluto in Virgo with his polarity point being Pisces. And he of couse said he was here to usher in a New Age, the Pisces Age.

God Bless, Rad

Quote from: Rad on Oct 06, 2010, 02:19 PM
Hi Ellen,

You are generally right, yet we must also remember the four natural evolutionary conditions for the Soul. So in what you presented that would be generally true in those generations for the Soul's that were in the first individuated state and beyond.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Thanks.  When I first read this reply it made perfect sense.  But as I have been thinking about it, I am wondering what that means about people in the evolutionary states - how is the matriarchy to patriarchy shift playing out for them... or is it at all?... Does this question make sense?

Peace,

Ellen

Hi Rad,

QuoteAll,

Here is something about the planetary nodes that we can all consider. Most of you will remember, when we talked about the structure of the Soul many months ago now, that I pointed out that it takes 24,000 years for the Nodes of Pluto to go through the entire zodiac: one astrological age. What is really incredible when you start to think about it is that the Nodes of Mars also takes 24,000 year for them to move through all the signs in the zodiac. They spend about 4,000 years in three signs, then another 3 signs for another 4,000 years, etc. For example, the S.Nodes of Mars since 500 A.D. have been in Libra, Scorpio, and Sagittarius depending on the time of year, in any given year. And, the N.Nodes are Aries, Taurus, and Gemini. This will remain in those signs until 4,300 A.D. So there are two things to ponder in this. One is the fact that, as we know, the lower octave of Pluto is Mars of course. Pluto is the underlying natural law of evolution for all things, including humans. And Mars instinctually  acts out those evolutionary imperatives through the various forms of life, including human.

So the questions become why does Mars stay in three signs and their polarities, in any given year, for over 4,000 years ? What is the symbolism for collective and individual evolution here ? The meaning of it ? And of course the phenomena of the 24,000 year cycle of an astrological age with both the Nodes of Pluto and Mars taking that amount of time to go through all twelve signs in the zodiac ?

Do you know of any sites that provide accurate astronomical data as it pertains to the phenomena you have described (ie the number of years it takes for a complete orbit for the nodes of any planet)? I haven't found anything that talks about the astronomy you brought up, and I feel it would be helpful for me to learn more about that to assist this contemplation.
Thanks
Ari Moshe

Hi Ellen,

"But as I have been thinking about it, I am wondering what that means about people in the evolutionary states - how is the matriarchy to patriarchy shift playing out for them... or is it at all?... Does this question make sense?"

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It plays out for all Souls, in all evolutionary states, in the form of the incredible imbalance of the human life form on our planet relative to all other life forms: the totality of Nature. As the patriarchy began, and has increased, there has been a progressive violation of all Natural Laws. The consequences of which all humans are being subjected too. As Wolf taught for so long he said often that the term 'matriarchy' really a word that symbolizes the vast majority of human her/history in which the human life form was living in accordance with all Natural Laws, and every other life form was. Thus, a state of balance on this Earth. And that, included, of course the Natural Laws of the masculine and feminine principles, laws, created by the Creator. The patriarchy is a word that thus symbolizes a progressive violation of these Natural Laws, and the consequences to that fact. The core Natural Law that has been violated in the Natural Law of 'giving, sharing, and inclusion' to 'self interest' and 'exclusion'. That core violation has lead to the totality of what we all our experiencing now.

*******************************************

God Bless, Rad

Hi Ari,

You can start very simply by looking at this through the Solar Fire program, and the planetary nodes calculations therein going forwards and backwards in time.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad and all,

Quote from: Rad on Oct 06, 2010, 03:02 PM
So the questions become why does Mars stay in three signs and their polarities, in any given year, for over 4,000 years ?  

What is the symbolism for collective and individual evolution here ? The meaning of it ?

And of course the phenomena of the 24,000 year cycle of an astrological age with both the Nodes of Pluto and Mars taking that amount of time to go through all twelve signs in the zodiac ?

There must be a certain evolutionary action the collective is supposed to take during these long phases of time.  If there are 24,000 year cycles, and Mars stays in 3 signs for 4,000 years, that means it completes the entire zodiac in 16,000 and begins to go around again for another 6 to complete the 24,000 year cycle. So the collective cycles through the nodes of Mars (and Pluto) once and then has another opportunity to experience the previous nodal cycle, for this instance NN Aries, Taurus, Gemini, before the 24,000 year cycle is completed.  

(Do we have a chart to work with for these examples?)

So we are working with the 1st quarter and 3rd quarter of the astro wheel collectively--beginnings, the self, the mind, logic, thoughts and integrating others, deep interdependent relationships, and knowledge, beliefs (NN Aries, Taurus, Gemini--SN Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius SN)

We are exploring and learning about our actions, learning about the Earth, nourishment, caring for our bodies, and sustaining life on earth, and we are learning about the mind, logic and ultimately our thoughts.  We have experienced and known deep intimate balanced relationships and have lived with natural law, or we failed in the past and are seeking this time around to achieve the aforementioned.

How is that for a beginning Rad?  

and deep connection to the power of the soul, sex, magic, healing, the feminine, balanced among masculine and feminine and our beliefs were aligned with those attributes the first time Mars moved through the nodal points of Aries, Taurus, Gemini, so our actions, our ability to sustain ourselves and our logic was applied in accordance with those attributes.

Then possibility the second time around, after the patriarchy had taken over, those attributes became marred and expressed quite differently.  Are we there now?  If so natural square to Pluto's nodes from Mars nodes happening now and over the next 4,000 years.

Is the great turning of now correlated to the 24,000 year nodal cycle of Mars and Pluto or are they different timings?

Hi Wendy,

I liked everything you said. I had thought that others would have also wanted to try to ponder the larger meanings of these cycles, but that has not happened. My original thought in creating this thread on planetary nodes was to try to understand them conceptually at first which lead to the posting that I made on that. And, then, after that, for those who wanted to participate, to begin some simple practice. As an example of what some of the initial practice would be would be to simply create a paradigm: for example, Mars in Capricorn, it's S.Node in Scorpio, it's N.Node in Aries. Then after doing a series of these to make them progressively more complex: Mars in Capricorn, S.Node is Scorpio with it's ruler Pluto say in Virgo, and the N.Node is Aries which would then refer back to natal Mars in Capricorn, and now that N.Node in Aries would act to evolve that Mars in Capricorn from within itself relative to the house that the N.Node of Mars in in natally.
Then after lot's of practice with move on to ever more complexity by way of examining all the planetary nodes in a birth chart that would utilize an actual birth chart of someone.
So that is still my intent and plan. For those that are interested in pursuing this please let me know.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Assignment:   So the questions become why does Mars stay in three signs and their polarities, in any given year, for over 4,000 years ? What is the symbolism for collective and individual evolution here ? The meaning of it ? And of course the phenomena of the 24,000 year cycle of an astrological age with both the Nodes of Pluto and Mars taking that amount of time to go through all twelve signs in the zodiac?

I've hesitated a bit with this assignment - but I really do want to attempt it.  I followed Steve's instructions for setting Solar Fire to the planetary nodes.  Please know that I will devote some time to this very soon.  I think Wendy did a great job, and it was good to see how she answered the questions.

Rad,

I am very interested in understanding all this.  Larger cycle studies is one of my favorite things.  
Besides moving, I've been busy with so much of life that it has slowed my pace down on the mb.  I have been fitting in more readings than ever before, amidst it all.
I have been visiting and reading, but not logging in typically.  

Anyway, I reread the transition from matriarchy to patriarchy in Pluto II again and am working to really understand this within the symbolizm of the ages, sub-ages and planetary nodes.  
I believe I am beginning to get this, at least in terms of ages and sub ages, at this point.

Presently, I am confused and have some questions.  
I have thought for some time that an astrological age was approx. 26,000 years and we have 1 degree of movement about every 72 earth years of the ecliptic shifting backwards relative to the vernal equinox on earth.  This, I thought to be the astrological age.  Can you help me understand this??
In conjunction with this, I have been very interested in the neptune pluto cycle, which moves forward thru the zodiac, spending 3,000 years in a sign and lasting 36,000 years.  I realize we are focusing on the nodes of planets here, so I will not continue with inclusion of this cycle here in this thread.

So, what you are saying is that mars nodal cycle, as well as pluto's nodal cycle, both take 24,000 years to move forward thru the zodiac.  
And, that they(pluto and mars) both spend about 4000 years dancing around 3 signs.  Your example, right now the nn of mars is in aries/taurus/gemini from 500 a.d. to 4,300 a.d.    This is another confusion point.  I now have it on my list of things to do to get Solar Fire to understand this more.  If you are willing to help me sort of these basics in the mean time, thanks so much.  

So, it is confusing b/c 4 times 4000 is 16,000 of course, so how does this add up to 24,000?  why am I  not getting this?  
Also, if 500 a.d. was the start of mar's north node into the first 3 signs, we are talking about the beginning of a larger cycle around this time?? Is that correct?  The beginning of a significant 24,000 year cycle began in 500 a.d. - right?  Such that the conscious human desires would now be played out relative to the larger cycle which we were collectively in.  
So, for example, would this be very significant to understand relative to the 'recent' patriarchal transition of human culture(of course it would) - what does this mean?
In a past example I posted of the Roman Empire gaining in power and dominance, it is interesting to correlate this mar's nn ingress into Aries with the timing of established calvary.  So, in this example, is it true to say, at that time, certain soul's desired new found freedoms(nn mars aries) in the ways that they established their authority and dominance of peoples and nature(exemplify the shift of human desires within patriarchal power positions)?  Calvary would be but one example of this.  Crusades another. etc.

Many thanks.
Goddess Bless,
Bradley

also,
what is the reference point?  so, if we say that an astrological age is 24,000 years, this cycle that we are in began when?

Here is the posting you gave of Cap. sub-age within Cancer age:

CAPRICORN SUB-AGE 7,660-6,580 B.C.

7,660 - 7,570 - Capricorn
7,570 - 7,480 - Aquarius
7,480 - 7,390 - Pisces
7,390 - 7,300 - Aries
7,300 - 7,210 - Taurus
7,210 - 7,120 - Gemini
7,120 - 7,030 - Cancer
7,030 - 6,940 - Leo
6,940 - 6,850 - Virgo
6,850 - 6,760 - Libra
6,760 - 6,670 - Scorpio
6,670 - 6,580 - Sagittarius

If I am reading this right, does this say that the capricorn sub age lasts 1080 years and has it's own 12 subdivisions? 
Here is the link to the posting for ages and sub-ages:
   
Re: Geodectic Equivelents
« Reply #5 on: Sep 30, 2009, 08:47 AM »

Each age, a two thousand + year period has a polarity of sub age within this.
Reviewing this list, and in effort to answer my own question, would it be true that this larger astrological age began at the 0 degrees Aries point - even though this is retrograde movement and marked the start of the age of Pisces? 
To ask another way, Is the age of Pisces- the start of it - actually the start of a new larger 24,000 year astrological age??
If so, would the planetary node sign placements of pluto and mars at this movement be of crucial importance to understand the underpinnings of the whole astrological age itself?

Thanks,

Bradley

Wendy,
thanks for your thoughts on this.  

Still working to grasp the answer to Rad's question:

So the questions become why does Mars stay in three signs and their polarities, in any given year, for over 4,000 years ? What is the symbolism for collective and individual evolution here ? The meaning of it ? And of course the phenomena of the 24,000 year cycle of an astrological age with both the Nodes of Pluto and Mars taking that amount of time to go through all twelve signs in the zodiac ?

Outside of a sign context, would it as simple of applying the 3 signs mars nn is in- the conscious desires within the collective to the 2 signs that pluto is in simultaneously - the collective soul's evolutionary intentions.  So, based on the nn of pluto, the collective of human souls is evolving toward this thru the conscious desires seen in the nn of mars?  Am I getting this?

Going back to the transition to the imbalance of living in natural balance with all of live, the nn of pluto would have entered cancer around that time - right?
So, the collective soul's evolutionary intentions for all of humanity have continued to be connecting with emotional nature of self, security in our own inner identity.  Thus, the continuation of distortions and domination as we collectively progressed into the patriarchal reality are all relative to south node patterns.  So, then the question is, why has our reality continued to be shaped by the sn signs of pluto, saturn, and jupiter and not the nn sign??

Quote from: Bradley J on Oct 16, 2010, 09:27 PM
Outside of a sign context, would it as simple of applying the 3 signs mars nn is in- the conscious desires within the collective to the 2 signs that pluto is in simultaneously - the collective soul's evolutionary intentions.  So, based on the nn of pluto, the collective of human souls is evolving toward this thru the conscious desires seen in the nn of mars?  Am I getting this?

That is my understanding.

Going back to the transition to the imbalance of living in natural balance with all of live, the nn of pluto would have entered cancer around that time - right?

So, the collective soul's evolutionary intentions for all of humanity have continued to be connecting with emotional nature of self, security in our own inner identity.  Thus, the continuation of distortions and domination as we collectively progressed into the patriarchal reality are all relative to south node patterns.

So, then the question is, why has our reality continued to be shaped by the sn signs of pluto, saturn, and jupiter and not the nn sign??

I believe the archetypal signs have been distorted too and the collective is living out the shadow of Cancer just as much as it's playing out the shadow of Capricorn, although I know many folks who are following the cardinal path with true leadership and emotional integrity.

We also have to look at the SN of Mars to discern Pluto's nodal influence.  I wrote about it and Rad replied though not specifically.  We may be putting the cart before the horse with the bigger picture, although I too would like to learn about the larger cycles.  

Thanks for your input Bradley.  I hope this thread will gain momentum.  

Blessed Be,
Wendy

Wendy,

Thanks for adding the shadow of Cancer as well.  

Would this shadow side of Cancer be visible in... inner security reliance upon outside sources.  
For example, if I sat and thought:  Why and how are folks identifying with this consensus reality of destruction and deception?  would it make sense to correlate this to the inner security, identity, and reliance on security from outside sources - like the capitalistic economy model teaching to climb the corporate ladder, success means dominance.       If one is sourcing emotional security from within, these needs of outer success and dominance can evolve to a new expression.  The extreme degree in outer security reliance is reflective this shadow of Cancer.  Is this proper correlation?  If so, at the onset of the transition from 'matriarchy' to 'patriarchy' would this be symbolized in the shift in inner identity [from sn sag/nn gemini(of planetary nodes of pluto, saturn, and jupiter) to the sn cap, nn cancer] such that humans at this time(the transition) began to increasingly source internal security from the outer cultural systems, societal structures.  

This is such a phenomena spanning large era's of time that the subjectivity of the evolutionary dynamic at play in the human consciousness is challenging to get a real perspective on it.  How do you show a pattern when its going on over thousands of years?  
What were the systems of 'law', order, and 'government' like prior to this transition?

Goddess Bless,

Bradley

Rad's quote:  Here is something about the planetary nodes that we can all consider. Most of you will remember, when we talked about the structure of the Soul many months ago now, that I pointed out that it takes 24,000 years for the Nodes of Pluto to go through the entire zodiac: one astrological age.

The natural law of evolution for everything is represented collectively and individually by Pluto's movement through the zodiac.  The totality of Pluto's "past," that is, how humanity has evolved to date, is defined by its South Node (as well as Pluto's house and sign in a chart).  The collective and individual "past" has been carried through to the current moment in time.  The SN of Pluto correlates to "what" defined the past, as well as to "how" and "why" it has come to the current time. 

It takes the Nodes of Pluto 24,000 years to move through the entire zodiac which makes up one Astrological Age.  The South Node of Pluto is presently at 18 deg Capricorn. 

We are presently evolving into another Aquarian Age, with the last Age of Pisces culminating. It would now be essential to understand how the structural nature of our reality has been conditioned by the past, in order that we can apply what is understood to what is needed now.

The beginning of this new paradigm will allow the past dynamics that defined collective and individual reality to be experienced and understood, in order to stop history from repeating itself.   

"What" defined the collective past 24,000 years of humanity? 

During the last Aquarian Age, 24,000 years ago, the Matriarchy was firmly established. 

About 8,000 years ago, during the Capricorn sub-age of the Age of Cancer, due to the Capricorn energies becoming repressed and distorted, there took place a patriarchal take-over and violation of Natural Law, when it started to be replaced by the man-made law of "self-interest and exclusion."  During that time the man-made sky gods and world religions were created. 

During the past 1,000 years of the Virgo sub-age of the Age of Pisces, the biblical Garden of Eden myth conditioned us to believe in the separation of the spirit from the flesh, that we were inherently bad and were being judged by god"¦.which lead to deeply embedded man-made guilt in the psyche, the inequality of the sexes, and sadomasochistic imbalance in relationships.

"How" and "why" does the SN of Pluto bring us to the present time?   

The SN of Pluto at 18 deg Capricorn means that we are revisiting the time of the patriarchal take-over in order to metamorphose, eliminate and dissolve the artificial beliefs of the patriarchy. 

Through the NN of Pluto (presently 21 deg Cancer) our collective group of Souls is learning how to live in absolute balance with natural laws and Nature.  We are returning to matriarchal principles by re-aligning with the true self-image of what it means to live in harmony with the Earth, our home and mother.   Embracing matriarchal principles once again will allow positive collective and individual growth and evolution. 

We are presented with a challenge with the SN of Pluto in Capricorn, the operative principle from the "past" being Saturn:  that is, the need to move beyond the conformity of existing reality as defined by the consensus.   

The NN of Pluto in Cancer serves as a vehicle for the evolutionary future to manifest.

What is really incredible when you start to think about it is that the Nodes of Mars also takes 24,000 years for them to move through all the signs in the zodiac.

Mars, as the lower octave of Pluto, correlates to how desires emanating from the Soul are brought to egocentric consciousness and how they are acted upon.  The Nodes of Mars would allow conscious definition and understanding of "how" the collective and individuals have evolved, "what" the past and present collective Soul desires were/are, and "how" and "why" these desires are brought forward by the SN's of Pluto and Mars into the present.  The Nodes of Mars would work closely in sync with the Nodes of Pluto.

Presently the SN of Mars is 9 deg Scorpio, its ruler being Pluto itself.  The NN of Mars is presently 26 deg Gemini. 

For example, the S.Nodes of Mars since 500 A.D. have been in Libra, Scorpio, and Sagittarius depending on the time of year, in any given year. And, the N.Nodes are Aries, Taurus, and Gemini. This will remain in those signs until 4,300 A.D.

From 500 AD to 4300 AD = 3,800 years

So there are two things to ponder in this. One is the fact that, as we know, the lower octave of Pluto is Mars of course. Pluto is the underlying natural law of evolution for all things, including humans.  And Mars instinctually acts out those evolutionary imperatives through the various forms of life, including human.

Why does Mars stay in three signs and their polarities, in any given year, for over 4,000 years?

4,000 years = 2 Astrological Ages (eg Age of Pisces, Age of Aquarius) = yin/yang, feminine/masculine, or energy moving out from the centre/energy moving back towards the centre.  Three signs correlate to the qualities of "cardinal," "fixed," and "mutable."

What is the symbolism for collective and individual evolution here?

Relative to the Nodes of Pluto and Mars, a 4,000 year subdivision means that, collectively and individually, Souls would consciously understand what the Astrological Age is about, and how to advance its new evolutionary purpose. 

The meaning of it?

The Nodes of Mars stay in 3 signs and their polarities for over 4,000 years because new evolutionary cycles begin at each segment, where new directions are taken, and "cardinal" cycles of new evolutionary desires are initiated.

And of course the phenomena of the 24,000 year cycle of an astrological age with both the Nodes of Pluto and Mars taking that amount of time to go through all twelve signs in the zodiac?

From 0 to 360 degrees is a complete cycle of the zodiac.  The completion of an Astrological Age means the completion of a 24,000 year cycle, and the beginning of a new one.  Pluto, and little brother Mars, would initiate new evolutionary desires at the beginning of a new Astrological Age.

The Nodes of Pluto and Mars take that amount of time to go through all 12 signs of the zodiac.  They symbolize bringing to "completion" the old 24,000 year cycle, and the beginning of a new evolutionary cycle.  Whatever has not been completed, finished or resolved will be recreated so that necessary culmination can take place.  Collective consciousness becomes internalized, allowing a reflection on the Universal Reality.

~ ~ ~

Thank you Rad.  Learning this with your assistance is absolutely exhilarating!

Thank you Linda.  Your explanation really gives a complete understanding. 

So we are now reliving the past patriarchal takeover before a new paradigm, a new age begins. Does the 24,000 year cycle end in 2012?  I think it does.  Also I thought the great age was 25, 400 years?

Gratefully,

Wendy

Hi All,

This whole topic is actually way over my head and I don't have the time to really explore/think about it.
One thought I had, though, was if/how numerology relates.  Thinking in this way: 4,000=4=cancer/4th/moon.  24,000=6=virgo/6th/mercury.  So possibly always the subtext of these 2 archetypes going on...........?  Probably a stretch, but it was a question that wouldn't go away.  Thanks for your patience.

Linda, thank you for your incredibly clear and thorough analysis.  It made everything seem so simple!

Rad, thank you for initiating this discussion.  I can't participate much beyond reading what others write, but I am reading with great interest.

Peace,
Ellen

Linda,

thank you kindly for that additional perspective; very helpful.

thinking about the capricorn sub age of cancer when the sn of pluto, saturn, and jupiter all entered capricorn.  How long ago, if ever on earth had such a symbolic sychronicity of elovutionary past and present intent aligned as such?

So, yes the transition into the present distorted times begins to make more sense relative to this.

Goddess Bless,
Bradley

Hi All,

Here is some information about these great cycles that we are talking about, and hopefully this will answer the various questions that have been asked. And, Linda, really loved the stuff that your wrote.

The 26,000 year time frame for the world cycle is based upon the current velocity of our sun as it moves through the processional equinoctial cycle.  According to Sri Yuksteswar in "The Holy Science", the Indian sages  mark the time of the world cycle to be about 24,000 years, making every degree 66.6 years long, and 2,000 years per zodiac age.  Given this, there is reason to consider that our sun's velocity is not constant, but changes during the cycle.  If this were true, our sun's speed is slower now, and will increase as we return back to our solar system's closest point to the galactic center  in 10,500 years, or 12,500 AD.

With respect to Pluto and Mars nodal cycles, Solar Fire only provides nodal data for the time period between roughly 4,500 B.C. to 4,500 A.D..  Everything else beyond that is based upon extrapolation, given nothing else to go on other than the known fact that there exists an apparent pattern to the order of the cosmos.  The pattern of creation can be intuitively grasped based upon evolutionary principles under natural law.) 

Pluto's nodes and Mars nodes have different cycles.  Pluto's nodes spend about 2,000 years within every zodiac sign and its polarity. Moving in apparent harmony to our sun as it  shifts also every 2.,000 years, based upon the 24K time frame.  The nodes of Mars however remain in 3 signs, with their polarity, for about 4,000 years.  Then one sign with its polarity drops out of the trinity, and is replaced by the next sign in the sequence.

For example, in 4,500 to 500 BC, the south nodes for Mars are Virgo, Libra, and Scorpio. Its north nodes are Pisces, Aries, Taurus.  Then around 500 BC, the South Node of Virgo and North Node Pisces become phased out. They are replaced by South Node Sagittarius., North Node Gemini.  This pattern continues, the trinity of South Node in Libra, Scorpio, Sag and North Node Aries, Taurus, Gemini, until about 4,300 AD.  Then Mars South Node Libra, North Node Aries phases out and shifts to South Node Capricorn and North Node Cancer.

Using this model, the nodes of Mars complete one cycle every 24 K years.  When that cycle culminates, a new cycle begins, but what was the original sign for South Node of Mars (at the beginning of prior 24K cycle) shifts to become its North Node of Mars, and vice versa.  Any given sign with its polarity that becomes active within the Mars cycle remains active for 12,000 years at a time, where it then becomes phased out by another in the zodiac sequence.

Using the above example for Mars nodes at 4,500 BC, and extrapolating into the future at 24K sun speed, in 19,500 AD (4,500 BC plus 24K) Mars' South Node would be Pisces, Aries, Taurus and its North Node would be Virgo, Libra, Scorpio - the reverse.  A whole new Mars cycle begins yet the nodes are reversed.  This is an example of the application of polarity upon an evolving consciousness as a gentle, yet provocative force.

The 500 AD time is the point calculated by Sri Yuksteswar which marks the halfway point in the world cycle.  According to the Hindu model of the world cycle, called the Daiva yugas, there are two halves or what are called by them Electric Couples (EC), each 12K years long.  The switch from one Electric Couple to the other occurred in 500 AD.   Relative to the patriarchy, it signals its culmination.  The forces at work upon human consciousness which operated during the previous EC reflected the male creating principle, which is yang. They now lose their potency, so to speak, as they begin acceding to the female creating principle, which in yin in nature.  In its wake will be a return to the Divine Mother and its attendant female creating principle, which will re-absorb (yin) all back into Herself, as a phenomenal experience relative to consciousness itself, which has been, heretofore, undergoing an individuating process during the prior EC for the prior 12K years, 11,500 BC to 500 AD.

Regarding your question about the Roman empire, the nodes of Mars actually shifted into Aries/Libra somewhere around 5,500 BC.  This was, in fact, the time frame after the emergence of the patriarchy.  Mars South Node in Libra, emphasizing giving, sharing and including, which now moves towards what you have described, yet beginning much earlier in history, during the time when the Neolithic agricultural communities (Indus Valley,  Nile Valley, and Tigris/Euphrates River Valley's to name the most well known) were growing larger and larger before they became established cultural and trade centers, around 3,000 to 2,500 BC. 

By the way, the nodes of Mars finally phase out of the Mars cycle around 4,300 AD., the end of their 12K life cycle.  Replacing them are Mars S.Node in Capricorn and North Node in Cancer"¦.interestingly enough their natural squares. 

God Bless, Rad

Rad,

Thanks for that greatly enlightening bigger picture.

You wrote:
"The 500 AD time is the point calculated by Sri Yuksteswar which marks the halfway point in the world cycle.  According to the Hindu model of the world cycle, called the Daiva yugas, there are two halves or what are called by them Electric Couples (EC), each 12K years long."

This is from the ages/sub-ages:
PISCES AGE:  100 B.C. - 2060 A.D
100BC - 10BC   Pisces
10BC - 80 AD   Aries
  80 - 170   Taurus
170 - 260   Gemini
260 - 350   Cancer
350 - 440   Leo
440 - 530   Virgo
530 - 620   Libra
620 - 710   Scorpio
710 - 800   Sagittarius
800 - 890   Capricorn
890 - 980   Aquarius

I am not sure how important it is that I understand this.  According to your post, the halfway point of the greater earth cycle we are in is 500 a.d. - which is 600 years into the pisces age and at the point of the virgo era therein.  One of my questions was seeking a starting point for the greater cycle of ages.
I am not sure where to go with this in context of your last post; besides disregarding it and focusing on the known which you have revealed.

And this is about understanding the symbolism of the planetary node cycles relative to the ages and sub ages...so, perhaps I am getting off track with this question.  From what you have shared, it appears that the transition from age of aries to pisces is not a starting point at all.  Is this correct?

thanks

Goddess Bless,
Bradley

Hi Bradley,

Well this of course reflects a collision of views and opinions for a long time now in terms of the 'starting point', the place of measurement called the point of Aries, against the constellations relative to the beginning and ending of the various Ages. In Yukestwars 'system' his used the first point of Aries as aligned with a fixed star called Revati in the constellation of Aries. Thus, using that star as the first point of Aries as measured against the vernal equinox there was twenty degrees of separation between Revati and the vernal equinox as calculated in 1894 by the astronomers of that time. From there all of his calculations were then made.
 
I am pretty sure that none of us here will be able to settle this ongoing dispute among many about whose systems of measurements are the best, or most right. And that's because, in the end, there are so many variables within each of those systems that to know for certain becomes, to me, impossible. To me this is all connected to evolution itself which means a PROCESS wherein there is a mixture of cataclysmic events combined with uniform evolution. I would doubt for example that at any point in the his/herstory of this Earth that anyone of a given day that another Age was beginning could say 'hey, today is the beginning of a New Age based on what was actually happening on that specific day. A natural evolutionary process, to me, means more of a morphing of of when Ages begin and end before things become crystal clear that, indeed, another Age is at hand. Thus, this five hundred year 'discrepancy' between the Ages at any other point in time. And it does come down to this five hundred year discrepancy when all the systems of measurement are considered. Thus, today, many astrologers feel that have already entered into the Aquarius Age, or close to it, and others feel it is still about five hundred years from now.

Astrology itself is based on the natural science of correlation and observation instead of theory or hypothesis. So to me this then means to use such a focus when looking at actual events through time. In other words what has actually taken place. But even these various events that can be used as 'markers' are themselves linked with the natural evolutionary processes that have lead to those specific events. For example when males within the human species realized that they had an equal role in making babies with women, and how that was then a primary cause leading into what we call the patriarchy. In reality, there was no one day that one could say 'yep, today is the beginning of the patriarchy'. It was a evolutionary process which would mean it took some time for that knowledge to spread to all places on the Earth in that time. One could apply this five hundred year discrepancy to the table of Ages and their sub-ages that we are using on this message board, moving all the various years five hundred years forwards, which would then equal that the transition began in the Cancer time from 7,120 - 7,030 to 6,670 - 6,580. So that would then mean this transition began during the Capricorn sub-age within the Cancer age at the time that the Cancer sub-sub age was taking place.

From the point of view of archetypes, Cancer/ Capricorn this would certainly correlate to the female and male genders supporting that time for the transition. On the other hand, reverting back to the the times of the Ages and their sub-ages, as given, that transition would have begun in the Sagittarius sub-sub age of the Capricorn sub-age within the Cancer age. The rationale ? The shift then from Natural Laws, Sagittarius, as the way of humans living on this planet to man made, concocted, 'beliefs' that has had the progressive affect of turning those Natural Laws upside down. And the cause of that shifting ? The biological fact of males being equal partners in conceiving babies. And that then set in motion this transition from the matriarchy to the patriarchy and all the 'beliefs' that were concocted to rationalize and support that transition.

When I started this thread it was not my intention to detail this particular issue that we certainly will not be able to settle. It was to focus on the planetary nodes, and their use in complete evolutionary analysis of a birth chart. Within that wanting to share this remarkable fact and linkage of Pluto's nodes moving through all the signs, 24,000 years, and the Nodes of Mars taking that same amount of time given that Mars in the lower octave of Pluto that instinctually acts upon the evolutionary impulses of Pluto itself. Linda did a great job in succinctly putting it all together. When we simply settle on the fact, at least to me, that evolution is a process that lead to a morphing of the Ages and their sub-ages then we can arrive at a more or less accurate understanding of the evolutionary intentions and needs, orientations, at any point in time. Within this of course is the specific archetypes of the signs that do remain constant: a Gemini archetype is a Gemini archetype for example. So if one has the S.Node of Venus in Gemini, for example, the archetype of Gemini is a constant in terms of understanding that S.Node of Venus in that sign and then combining that with the archetype of the house that it is also within: another constant. Then combining that with whatever aspects it is making to other planets, archetypes, so as to see be able to see the whole picture. And then to do that with all the planetary nodes: their North and South Nodes, the houses, the aspects, the current life position of any of the planets that connects to their Nodes.

This will give a very accurate, and complete, evolutionary profile of any given Soul. And it is this, to me, that is most important to grasp and understand. So in that spirit I would like to proceed with this thread.

God Bless, Rad

Rad,

Proceeding in the spirit of your original intent sounds fantastic.
Personally, with this last post, I am able to release this long standing question with the knowing that I am not missing some big piece.  Thank you for responding as you have.

Is it okay to ask more questions now about the nodes?  I hope to not set us off on tangents unintended.
This is from Linda's post:
"Why does Mars stay in three signs and their polarities, in any given year, for over 4,000 years?

4,000 years = 2 Astrological Ages (eg Age of Pisces, Age of Aquarius) = yin/yang, feminine/masculine, or energy moving out from the centre/energy moving back towards the centre.  Three signs correlate to the qualities of "cardinal," "fixed," and "mutable."

and...
"The meaning of it?

The Nodes of Mars stay in 3 signs and their polarities for over 4,000 years because new evolutionary cycles begin at each segment, where new directions are taken, and "cardinal" cycles of new evolutionary desires are initiated."

So, this mars nodal question is:

 Since the nn of mars aries and sn of mars libra have been in those signs the longest, are they(the aries libra axis of mars node transits) on their 3rd stage?  Linda tied in the concept of cardinal, fixed, and mutable in this larger mars node picture.  Originally, I thought that this was seen in the 3 active signs, such that one is of each modality.  
Now, understanding the mars nodal cycle more, there appears this natural trinity of the beginning, middle, and ending axis of the active mar's nodal axis.  So, what I am asking is....are the gemini/sag archetypes(relative to nodes of mars) in a larger evolutionary 'cardinal cylce' until 4,300 a.d. when the new initiating desires(cancer/cap) enter the cycle...so, at this time in the future, the gemini/sag axis would then be in it's 'fixed'/middle phase.  

Or, to say it another way, the gemini/sag nodal axis of mars - these desires would have been an initiating spark to evolutionary intentions for so long that they(these types of desires - gemini/sag) are becoming more 'fixed' into the fabric of humanity/cultural reality as longstanding desires that now eminate through all of reality by the time of approx. 4,300 a.d. when the next sign axis of cancer/cap enters the mars nodal cycle - they, gemini/sag, are no longer in the 'new' cardinal phase of the trinity at this future moment, within their own 12,000 year passage.

I do not mean to confuse the archetypal mutable nature of gemini/sag by casting a cardinal quality on them.  'Cardinal' in the sense that they are the newest sign polarity in the trinity of mars node signs.  So, in this sense, they are symbolic of relatively newer initiating desires.  Such that, by the time of 4,300 a.d. the gemini/sag polarity, relative to human desires will be so repetitively manifested that it(desires of gemini/sag nature) then become "fixed" within the cultures of all life on the planet.  

Does this question make sense?  Is this grasping a concept or???


If I'm too off topic, I'll be happy to make effort to follow your lead.  
Thanks

Goddess Bless,

Bradley

Hi Bradley,

If I am understaning what you mean, the natural evolution of the lead point being cardinal to it's end, the fixed point, relative to that trinity, then the answer is yes in my view.

God Bless, Rad

thanks Rad, again....

I woke up wondering about the nodes of venus. 

From initial observations, it appears that they do make passage in one year thru the zodiac.
I only looked at the past 3 centuries - it appears that both nodes stay in a 72 degree of separation, the north node of venus staying ahead of south node. 
Interesting symbolism, of course the 5 venus sun conjunctions forms the grand quintile around earth also.
From this period, it appears consistent that around March 20th the north node of Venus enters taurus, while the sn venus in hanging out around 19 aquarius at this time.

Just some observations I'm milling over now....

Goddess Bless,
Bradley

Hi All,

So want to find out how many still wish to participate in this planetary node thread. I think the next step should be to start some simple paradigms and go from there. For example, the S.Node of Mars in Scorpio, natal Mars in Capricorn, and the N.Node of Mars in Aries. So for those who wish to participate please let me know.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,
I am interested. It's my intent to stick with this, and try my best.
To begin with, I am going to remain in the seat of the observer as I feel I still don't grasp a lot of the basics here.

With Love
am

Thank you Rad - I very much would like to continue learning with you and the others in this thread. 

Hi Rad,

I'm very interested in this thread but will have to stay on the sidelines due to my hectic schedule.

Peace,
Ellen

Hi Rad,

I'm very interested in this topic but cannot participate at the moment due to health reasons. However I would really appreciate being able to read along when I can, so I hope you all go ahead.

blessings Upasika

I'm in too Rad. 

Thanks,
Wendy

I was thinking about this topic this morning and may try to jump in when I can, too. In the meantime, are you specifying an envolutionary stage for this exercise?

Hi Adina,

No, not yet. I want to start this a simply as possible and build from there. So, in the beginning, just to deal with the archetypal nature of the paradigm itself. I plan on setting this in motion tomorrow.

God Bless, Rad

yes

Hi All,

Ok, today we will start our understanding and application of the Planetary Nodes. I want to keep it very simple at first and, in a building block like way, progressively add to our understanding of these nodes. I would encourage all of you that want to do this to participate as much as you can, and to ask the questions that you need to ask.

Understanding the planetary nodes in no different than understanding the nodes of the Moon. As we all know all planets have a South and North Node. And, like the nodes of the Moon, they all have a past and a future that is experienced in each moment of the current life, where that current moment is defined by the natal position of the planet in question. Thus, the past is always shaping that moment, the natal planet, and the future is also shaping that moment by way of the Souls ongoing evolutionary development into the future. Thus, the moment is but a reflection, and caused by, the evolutionary forces of the past and they interface with the evolutionary forces of the future. That interface is what we then call the moment, the present moment.

So if we start with a simple example where Venus is in Capricorn, natally, and it has a S.Node in Sagittarius, and a N.Node in Scorpio, we can then examine what the S.Node of Venus in Sagittarius correlates to in terms of the archetypal dimensions of it, and how those prior life dynamics condition the current life placement of the Venus in Capricorn. The Venus in Capricorn will be a life long symbol that serves the underlying evolutionary intentions of the Soul, and a symbol throughout life that will serve to INTEGRATE the evolutionary forces of the past as they interface with the evolutionary forces of the future: the N.North Node of Venus  in Scorpio.

So if we remember that Venus correlates to our inner relationship to our self first, and then how this correlates to the external relationships that we attract for our evolutionary needs, we can now examine what that past inner relationship was, and the types of external relationships created because of that. We can then link this to the current life Venus in Capricorn, and how that is being evolved through it's N.Node in Scorpio. How would that S.Node of Venus shape the current life position of Venus, and in so doing how is that Venus in Capricorn going to manifest in this life relative to the Soul defining it's inner relationship to itself via the Capricorn archetype ? And with the evolutionary forces of the future, symbolized by the N.Node in Scorpio how is that current life inner relationship, symbolized by the Venus in Capricorn, being evolved through  Scorpio ? What type of external relationships would the combination of all of these evolutionary forces create ?

Obviously Venus has many other correlations. But, for the moment, I just want to keep it simple. And we will be building from this.

So please give it a go. I don't' care if you are right or wrong. What is important is the effort That is indeed how we learn.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad and All,

Here is my basic synopsis of the Venus in Capricorn person:

Past inner relationship-

The person had the freedom to live by natural law, if lived during matriarchal times, or believed strongly in religious mandated law.  The person would have been a seeker, intuitive, expansive in thought, philosophical in nature, and either physically large, grand, or energetically so.  And would have a desire to understand their known connection to the universe and explain it.  They could have knowledge of the cosmos, metaphysics...

External relationships-

In their outer relationships they would either be impressing upon others their belief systems, probably charismatic too.  Possibly adventure to foreign countries to proselytize or they would mainly relate within communities or societies that adhered to those beliefs.

I'm sure I can come up with more, but that's what I have for now.

Thanks Rad.  I really appreciate this opportunity.

Kindly,

Wendy  

okay, thanks Rad.
I'll be sure to put in the effort on this.
i can't help but be a dork and want to clarify, as excited as i am to work with this assignment, it is true that is the current 'earth reality' that the nn of venus stays ahead of the sn?

blessings,
bradley

Hi Bradley,

No, it can be in back of, or in front of, the S.Node of Venus. We can see this for yourself it you go into Solar Fire and then to the planetary nodes tables.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Before everyone gets going with the first assignment, I have a question that's been brewing for a while.

Every planet/asteroid except the Sun has a south and north node, showing the journey the energy of the planet is undertaking from the past to it's future, via the current house/sign location of the planet. The example we're most familiar with is the Moon with it's south and north node. But Pluto (the soul itself) also has a south and north node and it too is on this same journey from it's past to it's future. And you have explained this is true for all planets.

However for Pluto energy to evolve within one lifetime it must move towards it's polarity point, the opposite side of the zodiac. And JWG also says this is true for Venus and Mars. So this raises a few questions for me ...

1. Does every planet have a "polarity point"? I know the point exists for every planet in a chart, simply by definition of the zodiac being comprised of polar signs (Aries/Libra etc).

But is it true for every planet that for evolution to proceed the energy and functioning of the planet must move to the polarity point?

2. And is it also true for the lights - the Sun and Moon?

For example: in the chart's core dynamics, moving from the Moon's south node to it's north node assists Pluto to move to it's own polarity point. However, should the Moon also be moving towards it's own polarity point too?

and then finally ...

3. How is the movement from south to north nodes related to movement to polarity points?

For example we have the SN/Moon/NN and Pluto situation (which is also a crossover between one planet's nodes and another planet's polarity point).

Is the relationship between nodal movement and polarity point movement confined to this specific situation? ....or is there a generic relationship between nodal movement and polarity point movement?

Thanks and blessings,
Upasika

Hi Upasika,

Very astute questions. The answer is YES to every planet, or asteroid,  having it's own polarity point that reflects an evolution of the sign that the planet is in at birth. The South Node of a planet, or asteroid, set's up the natal position in the current life: it leads to it. And that natal planet then has it's polarity point as a core evolutionary dynamic within it that, in turn, is progressively actualized in the context of a lifetime through the N.Node of the planet itself. Thus, the polarity point in combination with the N.Node both serve to evolve the existing dynamics of the South Node, and the ongoing integration point defined by the natal planet itself. This all applies to the Moon as well. JWG did do a lecture on this at times, and there is a dvd available for sale to on the main site called From Karma to Dharma that reflects this.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

That's interesting and makes a lot of sense, and when I can I'll certainly be buying the DVD (absolutely skint at the moment).

1. However I take it, since the Sun has no nodes ... in the natal chart it's the integration point, not of it's own past and future as such like all the other planets (which have nodes), but more the integration point of the chart as a whole? - an integration point of all the other integrations points (other planets) if you like.

2. And whether that is the case or not, does the Sun itself have a polarity point? Since it has no past or future defined by movement from a South to a North node, is it a point in the chart that operates as a point relevant only to the present (our conscious presence), from where, or through which, everything else (with it's past, present and future) is integrated? And thus in itself is not a point needing to evolve in the same way the other planets do via movement from their south to north nodes?

Or does it also have within itself, as an evolutionary dynamic, the need to evolve to it's polarity point? And if so from where to what, since it has no nodes to represent the "from where" and the "to what"? For example, does it just evolve within one lifetime to it's polarity point, but not evolve as a sequential thread over many lifetimes like all the remaining planets do (shown within the chart by movement from their south to north nodes).

and lastly ...

3. Because of what Pluto and the Moon represent in the chart ... Pluto being the Soul itself, and therefore the bottom line of the chart in this lifetime, and the Moon being the egocentric structure created by Pluto to focus the Soul as a personality within a person's physical / emotional / mental / psychological actuality in their current life ... the Moon and Pluto have an inherent, predefined relationship.

Thus the nodes of the Moon, representing facilitators of the evolution of the Moon over lifetimes (from its south node to it's north node), and helping the Moon to evolve in the current life by moving to it's polarity point, also represent factors in the past that helped facilitate Pluto's arrival at its current location in the chart (Moon SN) and factors that in this current life will help facilitate Pluto's evolution to it's own polarity point (Moon NN). This is in addition to Pluto's own nodes representing Pluto's past and future.

So there is a "special" relationship here between these two planets which is reflected in the way the Moon's nodes not only give information about the Moon's evolution over many lifetimes (SN to NN) and it's evolution within the current lifetime (to it's polarity point), but also to both of these evolutionary dynamics for/within Pluto too.

The evolutionary dynamics of both the Moon and Pluto are always inevitably linked, for these obvious reasons.

Is this the only case of this amongst the planets? For instance, take Mars, representing the changing conscious desires we have, which come from the pool of unconscious desires for the lifetime held in the Soul, represented by Pluto. Here is another inherent predefined relationship between two planets where they share different aspects of the same core evolutionary component (desires). Do the south and north nodes of Mars also help in any way to facilitate Pluto moving to it's polarity point? And if so, are there still other situations where this nodal/polarity point crossover also happens between two planets?

Thank again Rad,
blessings Upasika

Upasika, thanks for asking these questions.

Rad, thanks for your reply.  My solar fire-less mac and your response led me to revisit true-node website and explore the nodes of venus in greater length.  
Apparently, (news to me)for about the last two thousand years the nodes of venus dance back and forth such that they conjunct in gemini(also when the sun is in gemini)  - at which point the south node moves ahead of the north node.
The south node stays ahead until the polarity time of year - for the last couple thousand years this was in sagittarius time when the nodes of venus rejoin in sag and the north node again pulls ahead.

Going into the "B.C." era, this is seen to be shifting backwards(as we go back in time) such that in this past era the nodes of venus were conjunct in taurus and scorpio.  Again, the sn of venus pulling ahead at the taurus conjunction and the nn of venus pulling back ahead at the scorpio conjunction.
In this era, the aries point(sun at 0 degrees aries) still sees a relative quintile between the nodes, however the nn of venus was in late aries on March 20th then.(Now it is early taurus)

Basically, this is awakening me to the evolutionary tie in of venus to the gemini sag axis for the recent two thousand years.  Could we say that humanities current curiosity and attraction to discover is a past relationship to ourselves which is leading our relationship to all of life?  And our evolving beliefs, faith, and intuition of our relationship with a larger perspective on life is metamorphosizing our collective past cosmological perspectives?  Based on the current signs of nodal conjunctions of venus.

My apologies for backtracking on the assignment here.  Working on the assignment now.  

Upasika's question and your response did lead to another question for me.
Rad,
I have truly reprogrammed myself to first apply the pluto paradigm always - this I have fully embraced.
Now, up to this point, I have never had it in my head, when seeing a chart to immediately wrap into the taking in of it all the planetary polarity points also.  
Is this something that you always do keep in mind?  
Is it a matter of evolving the consciousness of the meaning of any point to always include the polarity relative to these teachings?
What comes up for me it to always come back to the bottom line of pluto, the soul, and not distort or loose perspective on the bottom line desires and whys for a soul.

thank you

Goddess Bless,
Bradley

Hi Upasika,

Quote from: Upasika on Oct 29, 2010, 11:09 PM
Hi Rad,

That's interesting and makes a lot of sense, and when I can I'll certainly be buying the DVD (absolutely skint at the moment).

1. However I take it, since the Sun has no nodes ... in the natal chart it's the integration point, not of it's own past and future as such like all the other planets (which have nodes), but more the integration point of the chart as a whole? - an integration point of all the other integrations points (other planets) if you like.

********************************************************************

Yes

*********************************************************************

2. And whether that is the case or not, does the Sun itself have a polarity point? Since it has no past or future defined by movement from a South to a North node, is it a point in the chart that operates as a point relevant only to the present (our conscious presence), from where, or through which, everything else (with it's past, present and future) is integrated? And thus in itself is not a point needing to evolve in the same way the other planets do via movement from their south to north nodes?

**********************************************************************

It has no polarity point. All is integrated relative to it's sign and house in the birth chart. It does not evolve in the same way as all the other factors in the birth chart.

***********************************************************************

Or does it also have within itself, as an evolutionary dynamic, the need to evolve to it's polarity point? And if so from where to what, since it has no nodes to represent the "from where" and the "to what"? For example, does it just evolve within one lifetime to it's polarity point, but not evolve as a sequential thread over many lifetimes like all the remaining planets do (shown within the chart by movement from their south to north nodes).

and lastly ...

************************************************************************

The Sun can evolve from within the total archetypal spectrum of the Sign and House that it is natally as the Soul itself evolves relative to it intentions in any given life.

***********************************************************************

3. Because of what Pluto and the Moon represent in the chart ... Pluto being the Soul itself, and therefore the bottom line of the chart in this lifetime, and the Moon being the egocentric structure created by Pluto to focus the Soul as a personality within a person's physical / emotional / mental / psychological actuality in their current life ... the Moon and Pluto have an inherent, predefined relationship.

Thus the nodes of the Moon, representing facilitators of the evolution of the Moon over lifetimes (from its south node to it's north node), and helping the Moon to evolve in the current life by moving to it's polarity point, also represent factors in the past that helped facilitate Pluto's arrival at its current location in the chart (Moon SN) and factors that in this current life will help facilitate Pluto's evolution to it's own polarity point (Moon NN). This is in addition to Pluto's own nodes representing Pluto's past and future.

*************************************************************************

Everything is set in motion by the Soul and the desires within it. Thus, the polarity point of Pluto only manifests by way of the desire within the Soul to do so. If that is done then the N.Node of the Moon is simultaneously set in motion because of the desires emanating from the Soul.

*************************************************************************

So there is a "special" relationship here between these two planets which is reflected in the way the Moon's nodes not only give information about the Moon's evolution over many lifetimes (SN to NN) and it's evolution within the current lifetime (to it's polarity point), but also to both of these evolutionary dynamics for/within Pluto too.

***********************************************************************

Again, all evolution or motion within the birth chart, including the Nodes of the Moon, is set in motion, evolving, only because of the desires that emanate from the Soul: Pluto. In other words, the Moon, in and of itself, does not cause anything to happen: does not cause evolution to occur. All comes from the root of Pluto, the Soul.

*************************************************************************

The evolutionary dynamics of both the Moon and Pluto are always inevitably linked, for these obvious reasons.

Is this the only case of this amongst the planets? For instance, take Mars, representing the changing conscious desires we have, which come from the pool of unconscious desires for the lifetime held in the Soul, represented by Pluto. Here is another inherent predefined relationship between two planets where they share different aspects of the same core evolutionary component (desires). Do the south and north nodes of Mars also help in any way to facilitate Pluto moving to it's polarity point? And if so, are there still other situations where this nodal/polarity point crossover also happens between two planets?

**************************************************************************

All combinations of planets and their Nodes are created BY THE SOUL relative to it's ongoing evolution over great lengths of time. Thus, all facilitate the Souls evolution. But, again, it all starts from within the Soul itself. Without active desires, choices, to set all of these symbols in motions, to evolve, nothing will happen. It's like marking time. Once the Soul does make the choices by manifesting desires to do so then all of the symbols in the birth chart, the Nodal Axis of all planets, then facilitate that ongoing evolution of the Soul.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Bradley,

Quote from: Bradley J on Oct 30, 2010, 12:52 AM

"Basically, this is awakening me to the evolutionary tie in of venus to the gemini sag axis for the recent two thousand years.  Could we say that humanities current curiosity and attraction to discover is a past relationship to ourselves which is leading our relationship to all of life?  And our evolving beliefs, faith, and intuition of our relationship with a larger perspective on life is metamorphosizing our collective past cosmological perspectives?  Based on the current signs of nodal conjunctions of venus."

*******************************************************************

Yes, and this would include in this era the nature of cosmological discoveries by way of various types of telescopes that peer ever deeper into the universes

********************************************************************

My apologies for backtracking on the assignment here.  Working on the assignment now. 

Upasika's question and your response did lead to another question for me.
Rad,
I have truly reprogrammed myself to first apply the pluto paradigm always - this I have fully embraced.
Now, up to this point, I have never had it in my head, when seeing a chart to immediately wrap into the taking in of it all the planetary polarity points also. 
Is this something that you always do keep in mind? 

**********************************************************************

Yes.

*********************************************************************

Is it a matter of evolving the consciousness of the meaning of any point to always include the polarity relative to these teachings?

************************************************************************

Yes.

**********************************************************************

What comes up for me it to always come back to the bottom line of pluto, the soul, and not distort or loose perspective on the bottom line desires and whys for a soul.

***********************************************************************

That is the key to the whole deal.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Thank you very much Rad, this is all deeply clarifying.

While I'd never thought that planets caused Pluto itself to evolve, more assisted it to do what it wanted to do, it's very good to get from your response to my questions, and also Bradley's, the reconfirming that Pluto is the only mobilizer in the chart. Firmly puts the cart (back) behind the horse.

So how I now understand it is that the Soul (Pluto), having created the Sun, and other planets and their nodes, has also created them in a way that they will all facilitate the evolution of the Soul itself, and as part of that process, the evolution of themselves too.

And looking at the nodes of those other planets (all except the Sun), we can see how the Soul has gone about facilitating itself in this way in the past, and also it's intentions for doing so in the future. A natural tension arises between the past that's been and the future that is ahead of us, and this is felt and able to be integrated at the current placement of these planets. This tension is integrated by embracing the polar opposite realm of experience and understanding (polarity point) of each planet as consciously as possible. Conscious striving in this way towards our potential is what causes each area and aspect of ourselves (shown by the the planets themselves in their current placements) to grow and evolve.  

And that the relationship between the Soul (Pluto) and our subconscious identity (Moon - it's egocentric structure) that is created each lifetime, reflects the core mechanism that we unconsciously create from within our Soul to enable a sense of self in our daily life, albeit usually a subconscious one. And we look at the Moon's nodes to get information over time about this identity/facilitation process the Soul keeps creating for itself.

This subconscious sense of identity is itself not a static position. It too is in a state of tension caused by the pull of the past and continuity (strengthening this sense of self) and the need to keep moving out of our comfort zone into a new unknown sense of self (Moon polarity point). It needs to do this to accomodate the inevitable changes that are brought about in our life as a result of the deep (and relatively unconscious) urge within us to evolve (Pluto) propelling us towards our deepest growth possible in this lifetime (Pluto's polarity point).

And that the relationship between Pluto, and Mars and it's nodes, reflects where the Soul is at within itself in regard to it's creating desires to act on. The activation of these desires is what sets in motion all the other energies (all the remaining planets/asteroids with nodes) in the chart, with their inbuilt role to play in facilitating the ongoing evolution of the Soul. We look at the nodes of Mars and these other planets/asteroids, to get information about how these conscious desires and the particular roles of the other planets in the Soul's evolution, roles that has been created by the Soul in the first place, are all manifesting over time.

This whole process ... starting in the relatively unconscious Soul (Pluto) manifesting as a subconscious awareness of identity and self which imparts a sense of continuity (Moon) ... is initiated by the choice to evolve at the Soul level. This (relatively unconscious) choice to evolve, then manifests as multiple conscious desires that we are aware of in our lives. And these evolutionary intentions/desires that originated from our unconscious (Soul) are registered at a subconscious (Moon) and conscious (Sun) level via urges to act (Mars - lower octave of Pluto), and this mobilises all the other energies in our life (planets in the chart other than Pluto/Moon/Sun) ...

...  this whole process is integrated by our (relatively) much more conscious sense of being (the Sun) - in the realm of life shown by the Sun's house, with the dispostion and needs of the sign the Sun is in. The conscious expression and integration of ourself (Sun) evolves within this realm (house) with more developed understanding (sign) as these desires emanating from our unconscious (Pluto) are acted upon and experienced over time (shown by all the nodes).

The resistance generated by the past (shown by the south nodes) - to fulfilling the intentions arising from within our Soul (Pluto) and thus manifesting our future possibilities (north nodes) - is broken down and dissolved when we choose out of free will to grow into the unknown (our polarity points). And in doing so, our future (shown by the north nodes) then becomes actualised, and this consciousness through which we integrate everything that we are aware of (the Sun), then expands. In this way the Soul affects it's evolution.

I hope this is correct.

Blessings,
Upasika

Rad,
Thanks for the response,
Just have to say "Wow" reflecting on the taurus scorpio era correlating with 'birth rights', marriage, possession of/over humans as property, inheritance, - control of possessions, wealth related to marriage, and any passage of birth and death.  All the distorted institutions of the patriarchal era seem to have really rooted into human cultures with this era.  Does this ring true to you?

the true-node site only goes back so far, but from what i can tell, it seems like almost 3000 years for the nodal conjunctions of venus to stay in a sign - it this correct?
If so, the aries/libra conjunctions would have been more around 3000-6000 b.c. - and squaring the cancer/cap nodal ingresses around the onset of the fall from living in harmony with nature. 
Is this accurate?

Many thanks
Goddess Bless,
Bradley

Hi Upasika,

You have fully grasped how the EA paradigm works except this ............

"And these desires that originated from our unconscious (Soul) are registered as urges to act (Mars) which mobilises all the other energies in our life (planets in the chart other than Pluto/Moon/Sun) ..."

Both the Moon and the Sun registers the urges, evolutionary intentions, from the Soul, Pluto, via Mars it's lower octave ...

God Bless, Rad

Hi Wendy,

Wanted to acknowledge your first effort because the value is in the effort. One thing I would suggest to deepen your understanding, relative to the paradigm we are working with, is to read the section in JWG's Pluto Two book about Venus through the signs.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Gonzalo,

Excellent understanding of the interaction of the Nodes of Venus relative to it's natal position.

God Bless,

Rad

Hi Bradley,

Quote from: Bradley J on Oct 31, 2010, 02:41 AM
Rad,
Thanks for the response,
Just have to say "Wow" reflecting on the taurus scorpio era correlating with 'birth rights', marriage, possession of/over humans as property, inheritance, - control of possessions, wealth related to marriage, and any passage of birth and death.  All the distorted institutions of the patriarchal era seem to have really rooted into human cultures with this era.  Does this ring true to you?

**************************************************

Yes

*****************************************************

the true-node site only goes back so far, but from what i can tell, it seems like almost 3000 years for the nodal conjunctions of venus to stay in a sign - it this correct?

**************************************************************

The nodal conjunctions of Venus to stay in one sign for 3000 years ? No....

***************************************************************

If so, the aries/libra conjunctions would have been more around 3000-6000 b.c. - and squaring the cancer/cap nodal ingresses around the onset of the fall from living in harmony with nature. 
Is this accurate?

******************************************************************

Are you talking about Mars here ?

*********************************************************************

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,
Well, I ran nodal conjunction(for venus) in -1000(1000 b.c.) which is at 21 taurus(when sn pulls ahead)
Then, in 1000 a.d. this same phenomena is at 8 gemini.
Based on this, I'm approximating 117.64 years for a degree of movement.
This times 30 degrees, and we arrive at an approximate passage of venus's nodal conjunctions through a sign in about 3530 years or so.

From what i can tell, the first time venus nodal conjuctions started in gemini was around 200 a.d.
If this is a relatively constant motion(which I'm doubting) and we go back 3530 years, that means the scorpio taurus conjunctions of venus were roughly between 3330 b.c. to 200 a.d.

This places, following this timeframe, the aries libra conjunctions of venus' nodes from 6860 b.c. to 3530 a.d.

Relative to the mars nodal cycle, you wrote:

"Any given sign with its polarity that becomes active within the Mars cycle remains active for 12,000 years at a time, where it then becomes phased out by another in the zodiac sequence."

and also:
"This pattern continues, the trinity of South Node in Libra, Scorpio, Sag and North Node Aries, Taurus, Gemini, until about 4,300 AD.  Then Mars South Node Libra, North Node Aries phases out and shifts to South Node Capricorn and North Node Cancer."
and also:
"Regarding your question about the Roman empire, the nodes of Mars actually shifted into Aries/Libra somewhere around 5,500 BC."

so, from 7,700 b.c. to 4,300 AD is 12,000 years...so, how is it that the nodes of mars actually shifted into aries/libra around 5,500 bc?

Based on my limited understanding of this, it would appear both the nodes of mars and venus were active in aries/libra at the time of the cultural transition into the patriarchal era. Is this right?


Thank you kindly for answering these questions.
with love,

Goddess Bless,
Bradley  

Hi Bradley,

I don't think I am understanding how you are trying to put together this cycle of Venus and it's nodes. Plus, the Venus cycle is very different than the Mars cycle. The S. and N Nodes of Venus actually conjunct every year. This year it will be on Dec 8th in Sagittarius.

From approximately 8,000 B.C. to 4,500 B.C the Nodes of Mars were at the bottom of the trinity of the three signs then. From 4,500 B.C to 500 B.C. there were in the middle of trinity then, and then from 500 B.C. until 4,300 A.D. there are at the top.

Bradley, I just don't have time to keep going through all the math to arrive at these things. I am very busy. Would I would like to do is to focus on the planetary nodes themselves in terms of peoples actual lives.

God Bless, Rad

Rad,
Great! thanks for being clear.
I will stop asking these questions.  Thanks for more clarification.

I hope in the future it would be okay in another thread to post as clearly as possible what I've stated to say here.  Just posting info., not asking more questions on this.

Goddess Bless,
Bradley

Quote from: Rad on Nov 01, 2010, 10:32 AM

"And these desires that originated from our unconscious (Soul) are registered as urges to act (Mars) which mobilises all the other energies in our life (planets in the chart other than Pluto/Moon/Sun) ..."

Both the Moon and the Sun registers the urges, evolutionary intentions, from the Soul, Pluto, via Mars it's lower octave ...

Thank you so much Rad ! To have arrived at how all the main components work together is very enabling for me, wouldn't have been able to have done it without your continued teaching and support, I'm very grateful.

I'll update my previous post to reflect the correction.

blessings Upasika

checking in,
most likely, i'll be back posting here in about 5 days.

be well,
bradley

Hi,
Rad, I have a question with regards to this:

QuoteThus, the N.Nodes of the planets serve as the vehicles for the evolutionary future to manifest which is integrated in each moment by natal position of those planets.

My logical mind wants to see the natal position as the vehicle, how is the future point (NN) the vehicle in the present. Do present desires of getting to the NN clear the way to the future, or does the future actually inform the present?


Here's an attempt at south node Venus in Sagittarius, natal Venus in Capricorn and north node Venus in Scorpio:

In the past this soul's inner relationship was based on natural ways of being.  This soul would hear her own voice as a natural part of the diversity of all life on the planet, and would be part of a group of others that lived in this way.  Her way of experiencing all life would be governed by beliefs about what is seen in nature, and whatever her community understood about how to live with whatever naturally lived around them. For example if she lived with a northern tribe that survived by migrating with the growth of vegetation and following the caribou she and her tribe would have an intimate way of relating and listening to plants, caribou, wolves and weather patterns.
With that past coming into the current Venus in Capricorn this soul would be adapting her way of listening to accommodate a structure that would require her to control her way of being to accommodate social order. She would be in a life that would require her to conform her values to the authority of tradition, regardless of whether she authentically shared those values. She would be internally pressured to still hear her natural ways  but adapt them, or evolve them to fit the structure of society.  I am thinking of someone like Beatrix Potter, who clearly felt an affinity with nature, and although she was widely criticised by Victorian culture for being a woman author and unmarried, she managed to be a successful artist  and author by   "listening" to the animals and beauty of nature around her and sharing that in her books.
In Capricorn, the soul would be doing the groundwork of deconditioning the beliefs around  hearing what is natural in ONLY the context it is familiar with, and learning to surrender those beliefs that the so that the soul can adapt and hear natural truth anywhere.   So as the soul moves from the northern tribe wilderness (sag) to pastoral Victorian English society (cap)in my example, she is learning to find value and beauty in her own inner realm, that she can then find and share in her relationships.
The Venus in scorpio north node is the future for her learning to surrender her conditioning completely to a higher power. She will be challenged in her trust of the inner resources available to her. She will understand surrender and adaptation from the decondition/conditioning of capricorn but in scorpio it will be to a higher power that she will learn to trust .  Of course her CHOICE of what to value within, and in others will be highlighted, so she could make the choice for many other sources of power here and have many problems related to fearing or misunderstanding what she needs to allow to die in her so that her God'dess-committed self can emerge.  She will begin to understand the depth and intensity of committment that is required to let go and merge with what  is naturally true, and have that be her power.

Ok so I will end here...
The nodes have just lighted up the dynamic nature of consciousness for me. wow.

Thank you, Heather

Hi Heather,

"Thus, the N.Nodes of the planets serve as the vehicles for the evolutionary future to manifest which is integrated in each moment by natal position of those planets."

My logical mind wants to see the natal position as the vehicle, how is the future point (NN) the vehicle in the present. Do present desires of getting to the NN clear the way to the future, or does the future actually inform the present?

************************************************************************

The N.Node is the future that informs the moment just as is the S.Node also informing that moment. Thus, the natal planet is the constant that allows for an integration for the past and the future in each moment. The combination of the past and the future in the moment then allows for an evolution to take place that in integrated by the natal planet throughout one's life. Remember that the signs and houses contain within themselves a spectrum of archetypal correlations. And it is that totality within any sign or house, the spectrum of possibilities, that is then evolved because of the evolutionary pull of the future as that future meets the past in each moment.

****************************************************************

A wonderful effort at analyzing this paradigm Heather. What you have written is completely within the realm of archetypal possibilities in this paradigm.

God Bless, Rad

Thanks Rad !
Heather

Natal Venus in Capricorn is a life-long symbol that serves the underlying evolutionary desires and intentions that emanate from the Soul.  It acts as the integration point where the interface between the past (SN of Venus in Sagittarius) and the future (NN of Venus in Scorpio) is experienced in each moment of the current life.  

The past, as symbolized by the South Node of Venus in Sagittarius, gives us an idea of the conditioning that created the reality of Venus in Capricorn in the current life.  Therefore, we need to understand historical cycles such as the matriarchy in which all people lived in harmony with natural laws, and the patriarchy when those natural laws became suppressed and distorted.

The Soul would also have transitioned through the patriarchy, when the suppression and distortion of natural law lead to the creation of man-made beliefs, and the subjugation of women and nature.  The suppression of what was natural on a subconscious level turned to domination, competition and self-interest.

In the transition to the present time, the Soul with Venus in Capricorn correlates to learning how to apply natural laws in the context of the present times.

Examine the archetypal dimensions of the South Node of Venus in Sagittarius

An examination of the archetypal dimensions of the South Node of Venus in Sagittarius reveals the past conditioning of the Soul when it lived on a communal basis within tribes, cultures or societies that were in harmony with natural laws.  All life-forms within Nature were understood to be co-equal and interdependent, and considered to be God.  Nature itself, which included plants and animals, was the teacher.

The Soul's conditioning in the area of relationships between matriarchal men and women was patterned according to the natural world.  Sexuality was experienced as sacred and in complete harmony with natural laws.  Evolutionarily, through natural law, it was crucial that women were available to many men so that the species could create enough diversity to survive.  Therefore there was no marriage or monogamy.  The matriarchal way of life correlated to the archetype of Sagittarius in that the Soul's consciousness was aware of being connected, beyond the Earth, to a much larger universe.

Examine how the prior life dynamics condition the current life placement of Venus in Capricorn

Prior life dynamics, which basically meant living in harmony with natural laws, condition the current life Venus in Capricorn by bringing awareness of issues related to relationships, marriage, monogamy, sexuality, diversity, different cultures, different classes, societal role, women's rights, women in positions of self-authority and power, the environment, and learning how to apply natural laws in the context of the present life.

Examine the past inner relationship to the self, and the types of external relationships created because of that

The past inner relationship to the self was defined by an unrestricted search for meaning and purpose which determined the Soul's philosophy of life.  The Soul's personal truths, connected to the greater Universe, form the core value and meaning for her life.  She is firmly right-brain in orientation, intuitive and optimistic.

Resonating inwardly to the need for philosophical meaning allows the Soul to discriminate who she will be involved with intimately and generally.  She has a deep need to defend her beliefs since they bring meaning to her life.  Any external challenges to those beliefs bring a loss of meaning and purpose.  She would choose relationships where there was intellectual and philosophical stimulation, and a mutual commitment to personal growth.  

How does the SN of Venus in Sagittarius link to and shape the current life position of Venus in Capricorn?

The inner search for meaning was thwarted or restricted from an early age.  The Soul was expected to conform to the parents' value system.  The psychological and emotional reality of the current life Venus in Capricorn is based on unmet needs in childhood resulting in displaced emotions and a fear of vulnerability.  She cannot relate her own personal truths to the parents' value system, therefore feels alienated from them.  

Furthermore, she cannot relate to society since the nature of authority has become distorted.  Her intuitive, right brain orientation does not sit well with the parents, so their judgment and rejection results in feelings of guilt.  Her "natural" search for truth becomes "suppressed" until she can break free later in life.  

Relationships in her life are characterized by the search for partners or friends who will not challenge her beliefs which give her life meaning.  She could attract people who are quite ambitious and controlling, or very emotionally needy types who subconsciously feel safe in being dominated and controlled.  She could project her own authority onto others by way of rigid intellectual and philosophical structures, to feel secure.

Since she has a natural urge for personal growth, she eventually finds a special kind of person to unlock her feelings.  In examining her early patterns, she would wish to be free of them.

How is that Venus in Capricorn going to manifest in this life relative to the Soul defining its inner relationship to itself via the Capricorn archetype?

The Soul's inner relationship to herself could be shaped by the psychology of futility, pessimism or self-defeat.  She learned to protect her feelings because her needs were not supported or nurtured by her parents.  Emotional control is a survival instinct.  The emotional reality is of deep insecurity, timidity, shyness, fearfulness, displacement, suppression and distortion.  

The SN of Venus in Sagittarius would influence personal growth in terms of intellectual and philosophical expansion.  Her perpetual search for truth and meaning in conjunction with the Ultimate Truth would lead to slowly opening up to inner freedom, expression of playfulness and enthusiasm, and the exploration of the diversity of life.  

Her personal truth, relative to liberating from societal and parental conditioning patterns to conform, will be actualized by self-determination.  The false persona will be removed, so that the actual truth will be revealed.

How is the current life inner relationship, symbolized by Venus in Capricorn, being evolved through NN of Venus in Scorpio?

The Soul is facing her own personal limitations in order to evolve beyond them.  She desires to merge with higher universal sources of power to bring about personal growth and evolution.  From a psychological point of view, she is able to penetrate into herself through a very reflective and deep consciousness, to understand the nature of societal and parental imprinting.  She is able to make a commitment to evolve out of the past patterns of behaviour or conditioning.  The process of cyclic death, rebirth and regeneration are embraced as a natural part of life, a natural truth, which gives her life meaning and purpose.

What type of external relationships would the combination of all of these evolutionary forces create?

She would be free to make choices as to her external relationships.  She could seek many very deep and intense relationships where she finds fulfillment for her earthy sexuality and need for touch.  Since she is aware of her limitations, she would have a strong desire to merge, sexually or otherwise, with others who hold a higher source of power in terms of social position or knowledge.  She could become a well-known teacher of metaphysics or philosophy, or perhaps a psychologist or counselor committed to helping others to grow past their limitations.  She could also act as an advocate for wildlife for example, tuning in and listening to the guidance of Mother Earth, and applying natural laws in the context of the present times.  

Hi Linda,

Excellent effort and all of what you wrote is within the realm of archetypal possibilities in this paradigm.

God Bless, Rad

Thanking you Rad!

Hi Rad,

I am reposting my response from a couple of weeks ago.  I don't think you saw it.  It's my attempt to describe Venus in Capricorn

Quote from: Wendy on Oct 26, 2010, 05:36 PM
Hi Rad and All,

Here is my basic synopsis of the Venus in Capricorn person:

Past inner relationship-

The person had the freedom to live by natural law, if lived during matriarchal times, or believed strongly in religious mandated law.  The person would have been a seeker, intuitive, expansive in thought, philosophical in nature, and either physically large, grand, or energetically so.  And would have a desire to understand their known connection to the universe and explain it.  They could have knowledge of the cosmos, metaphysics...

External relationships-

In their outer relationships they would either be impressing upon others their belief systems, probably charismatic too.  Possibly adventure to foreign countries to proselytize or they would mainly relate within communities or societies that adhered to those beliefs.

I'm sure I can come up with more, but that's what I have for now.

Thanks Rad.  I really appreciate this opportunity.

Kindly,

Wendy  

Hi Wendy,

I did respond to your post .. on page 5. Here is it anyway ............. God Bless, Rad


Hi Wendy,

Wanted to acknowledge your first effort because the value is in the effort. One thing I would suggest to deepen your understanding, relative to the paradigm we are working with, is to read the section in JWG's Pluto Two book about Venus through the signs.

God Bless, Rad

Thanks Rad, I missed it.  

My original response was attempting to define the SN of Venus in Capricorn rather than just Venus in Capricorn.  Did I miss the mark? thus the suggestion to read about Venus?  Or do I just need to go deeper?

God Bless,
Wendy

Rad,
Here is my first effort.  I read your note about reading the venus chapters in Pluto II which I have yet to do.  After your initial feedback, I intend to flesh this out some more with reading and synthesizing those chapters. 
Thank you kindly for any and all feedback.
Bradley

Bottom-line Statement:  Inwardly, s/he values self determination, ambition, and actualizing ones goals.  These are all shaped by the beliefs/knowing/inner truth that the soul comes into the life with.  These beliefs/knowing/inner truth, at a core level, allow the self to give definition and function to society's philosophy/cosmology/religion.  The inner relationship to the self, and inner truth is conditioned  in this life by parental and societal teachings of right and wrong.  There is an evolutionary need to confront the inherent limitations of self imposed judgements and definitions which resulted from conditioning in this life of the soul's life orientation/beliefs/knowing that was carried forth from previous evolutionary stages.

The south node of Venus in Sagittarius correlates to the previous lifetimes of relating to oneself in a philosophical,metaphysical, natural, religious, cosmological, intuitive way.  The actual nature of this is determined by the soul's evolutionary stage.  For example, in the consensus stage, the soul would have, in previous lifetimes valued and been attracted to things and people which explained the larger meaning and context for the mundane.  Inwardly, at this evolutionary stage, the soul is valuing something that gives meaning to the cycles of life and ways of the world.  At this consensus stage, the teachings which would be the foundation for how s/he related to his/her self would be the consensus religious or "˜way of life', depending on the era, culture, etc.
At the individuated stage, the sn sag of venus is seen in the individual's own search for meaning to life outside of the consensus world views and religious of the linked past lifetimes.  They come in valuing principles and laws that explain how life works.  Relative to the soul's perspective and era on earth, this could mean an atheist for example.  In our current world, this type of core belief is common, especially in the heart of individuated and the apparent "˜lack of God' in the world. 
And, of course, for the soul in the spiritual evolutionary state, they come into life having previously established a deep and broad knowing of self in relation to the divine.
All of these dynamics, of course, most also be applied to actual houses to gain further insight, aspects to, etc.

Venus in Capricorn is naturally reserved, controlled, and cautious about it's feeling - and by extension, the ways it relates and shares with others.  Venus in Cap also symbolizes conditioning of the "˜ways to be' in relationships.  Most likely, s/he has encountered in this life judgements about what is right and wrong, both from parental figures as well as socially.  This leads into a potential to suppress natural feelings and to judge oneself for what one naturally feels and is attracted to.  Relative to the sn sag of Venus, it is likely that ones natural truth will be either suppressed or a key motivating factor to self discipline.  Again, it depends on the nature of the soul.  A bottom line statement would be that their own inner truth, which they were naturally born with, will be put into definition and given a socially functional meaning in this lifetime.  Definitions, by their nature, are limiting.  The past conceptual understanding of life, whatever it was/is, had evolved for a specific evolutionary purpose.  Now, s/he relates to putting the meaning of life into a definition.  This definition, whatever it evolves to be, will become a limiting factor relative to her/his relationship with her/his self, and by extension, all relationships.  Regardless of the evolutionary stage, there is a need to evolve and continue to grow at a core level.  The evolutionary purpose is to metamorphosis the core inner truths that have solidified into a limiting definition of "˜how life works'.  There was nothing "˜wrong' with the truth that s/he had inwardly self realized.  What the symbols are saying is that the implied limits, internalized from external conditioning, have shaped his/her inner truth into a certain definition which will, by it's nature, limit and restrict growth inwardly, and therefore, also in his/her relationships.  Hence, the nn scorpio implies the evolutionary need for confrontation in this life.  Also, this can be a symbol for the evolutionary necessity of betrayal and abandonment.  Why?  Because these types of events will force this soul to go outside it's limited perspective and inner orientation. 
I do not mean to say the venus in cap relative to it's sn sag alone implies that this person was born with an inner restricted world view.  This part is relative to the evolutionary stage and could manifest in a multitude of ways.  Again, the key implied by the nn venus in scorpio, relative to venus cap/sn sag is that how they are relating to themselves is conditioned by their pre-existing inner truths and the conditioning of their current life's parents/society.  The implied limiting factor could be a repressed part of their natural intuition.  In this example, a confrontation or betrayal could catalyze the inner questioning that will allow the repressed parts of them self to resurface.

An example of  key external relationships in past lives is student teacher type.  Again, if we are talking about consensus stage, this could simply mean an uncle who put things into perspective for them.  Through these types of relationships, s/he would have then internalized the value of placing the happenings of life into context with the larger context of life.  If we follow this example into the current life, in the current era, we would expect the conditioning of consensus morals to heavily impact his/her own self judgements.  Coming from a sn sag, these morals would be given inner meaning as s/he naturally ties them to the consensus religion of the culture of birth.  It would be easy to see this even manifesting as "˜morally ethic' business person who holds a religions teaching of what is right and wrong at the core of business relationships.  Again, even in this example, it is easy to see that there is a limiting factor to the inner orientation.  S/he would stagnate, that is stay with the same beliefs and values, limit and control the relationships they keep based on those of similar value.  This example shows again, that self growth is limited by the nature of the life they are living.  The relationships they form would be one's which support their current orientation.  So, the nn scorpio symbolizes again, the need for an external confrontation to push them to evolve beyond the crystallized self definition.  Clearly, in our times, it is easy to see how this consensus stage example would have repressed natural feelings, therefore a distorted inner relationship with oneself.  The nn is the symbolic force that is bringing in external relationships that would push this soul to question their deepest beliefs and sense of right and wrong.  With the scorpio nn, one example of an external relationship that would trigger cataclysmic evolution would be a powerful attraction to someone outside their primary relationship.  This situation would force a inner crisis.  Now, the natural feelings could be totally repressed and the soul may have to live lifetimes before they reach a place of non judgement regarding the natural feelings that they have.  The symbolism and evolutionary intention in there, regardless of the state the soul is in and how long it takes to grow and evolve beyond the current definition of self.

One more example: this is a soul at spiritual evolutionary stage.  Regarding external relationships, s/he would naturally attract others who have a cosmological orientation, yet are also more reserved with sharing feelings.   This could appear to others as someone who has "˜dry' and boring relationships, seeing as their is no point for this soul to gossip and openly share feelings about so and so and this and that.  This soul would naturally gravitate to relationships with more mature and advanced spiritual teacher types.  The nn scorpio can symbolize here the evolutionary need for a committed partner, whom through sustained intense shared love making would be inwardly confronting the feeling parts of their self that had become suppressed, repressed, and dormant below the surface.  In this example, the external relationship of a committed sexual union would bring much more self growth than the comfortable hanging out with the mature spiritual teacher.

Hi Bradley,

Excellent work and analysis of the interaction of the Nodes and Venus that also demonstrated the possible manifestations relative to the evolutionary stages of development. Bravo.

God Bless, Rad

Hi All,

Ok, seems like it is time to practice another planetary node pardigm. In this new paradigm natal Venus will be in Taurus, it's S.Node will be in Leo, and the N.Node will be in Cancer. Let's have a go at it.

God Bless, Rad

Rad,
I just finished this amendment to the first part of the assignment, and now see you've initiated the next assignment.
I felt it worthwhile to still share the rest of this...


Part II: Planetary Nodes Assignment Venus: Sag -->  Cap --> Scorpio

Here are some additional dynamics after reading the corresponding Venus sections in Pluto II

Sn Sag Venus comes from a place of inner freedom which is in potential conflict to natal Cap Venus - that is to say the conditioning factors which limit, inhibit, and judge the inner spirit of freedom and growth.  The nn Scorpio implies the needed confronting of the limitations of the conditioning and taught definition of reality. 

Both the Capricorn and Scorpio archetypes share an inward movement.  This suggests when this soul is "˜stuck' s/he needs to actually increase the inner compression upon oneself - by actually going deep enough (scorpio) into the past (cap) one can unlock the inherent inner truth of who they are(sag).

The symbols of Capricorn and Scorpio also implies that s/he is learning to relate to oneself in an emotional way.  There is a need for intimacy which can slowly dissolve the cold and frozen guarded emotional nature.  Once there is trust and deep intimacy with a partner, s/he will reveal how s/he is actually quite carefree and humorous inside. 
They can also begin to express their true natural feelings and the limitations of the conditioned gender roles they have been taught to play out. (this varies greatly based on evolutionary stage and actual parental/cultural/societal reality)

The symbolism of Venus coming from Sag, in Cap, and moving toward Scorpio raises the question: Does the parental and Social reality allow for the freedom of inner growth?  a connection to one's own inner truth and sense of link to larger truths?   Here is an example to illustrate this point-

Christianity has existed in many many forms - how does one tell, as soul is conditioned by this religion, that there current conditioning would provide the framework for growth within their current definition of reality?
To answer this, first of all the natal Capricorn Venus does imply the conditioning in this life is going to be "˜rules to live by' which block their inherent expansive nature.  However, we also need to consider the type of Christianity as well as the evolutionary stage and the overall nature of the soul.  For example, the bible would be taught to define the rights and wrongs and would be exemplified by the religious upbringing.  The bible itself, as the end all book of God, would be potentially seen as limiting or inhibiting deeper growth.  Such a soul may naturally seek out further teachings and discover lost books of the bible which contain key pieces to incomplete aspects of biblical teachings. (sn sag)  In this example, the soul went deeper into Christianity and found a way to grow and expand upon the inner truths which s/he had intuited were missing from the version presented by parents and society.  They would then have to confront the aspect of their self which was conditioned to judge this "˜questioning the word of God' - (nn scorpio) meaning, due to the conditioning, all along a voice inside their self is judging them self as wrong and feeling a resulting sense of guilt at first by stepping outside the taught moral "˜right and wrong'.  Once having followed thru with this leap of faith and thereby changing the structure of their consciousness, they would then also have to face eternal confrontations in the relationships of parents, family members, members of there church, etc.  Yet, based on these symbols, we as astrologers would know it was simply in their very nature of their inner relationship with how they define life to allow for room for searching, growing, and expanding upon one's inner beliefs. 

Now, if the nature of this soul is overall Saturnian/Consensus, then the outer relationships will be made with others in the consensus who inwardly also approach consensus religion in the same way - such that they too inwardly resonate with inner truth and freedom of self.  Thus, a common ground would be the aspects of reality that define living a life of expansive carefree living.  Sadly for me to say, this could simply, in this example, mean the embracing of the "˜american dream' which is actualized thru the reality of capitalism...at least this would potentially be the consensus belief.

Sag is humor, Cap is quite known for dry humor - inwardly seeing the light at the end of the shackles.

Sag alone seeks solutions instead of problems, while Capricorn Venus can be getting potentially quite pessimistic regarding the outcome.  This comes out as a type who shares a dismal optimism or even strong outward judgements and negativity while inwardly seeking answers - quite confusing to be around if you didn't know this person.
On the flip side, Cap is also potentially highly motivated, so we could also have someone who is quite ambitious at making it work, facing obstacles with optimism and perseverance.
Sag can be quite blunt, Cap can be so coldly "˜as a matter of fact"˜ - the result is the potential to hurt another's feelings - and then the scorpio confrontation.
This can be coming from Sag's generalization of truth - that is applying their inner personal truth to everything - thru Capricorn where these beliefs materialize into judgements of right and wrong.  Through the polarity of each of these signs, we see the evolution of this pattern - such that once they discover the fact that each person's own truth is right for them(gemini) and that what they are really seeking is the security in a relationship in which they can share all their stuffed away feelings, unorganized and chaotic as they naturally are(cancer), they dissolve this tendency to coldly judge others from a place of inner inadequacy.

If the sn Venus Sag symbolizes a self compensation for inadequacy, the evolutionary purpose of Venus Cap is to clearly define and spell out their individual beliefs.  Of course, they also need to overcome the distortions of what truth is because of being conditioned(raised) by others who hold different inner truths.

This person, sexually, is going to run into inner and thus outer(relationship/partner) conflicts.  Sn Sag is quite carefree and does not care about the socially assigned gender roles.  This past relationship to them self also wants spontaneity and adventure in general, and also sexually.  Now we have the Venus in Capricorn currently, who may easily fall into routines and roles, yet inwardly be driven crazy because of the boringness of their relationship and sexual life.  They are going to need a partner who understands how to "˜warm them up', and melt the controlled projected persona which all to often remains in control.  Once past this, there is a safe place for the spontaneity they feel to be played out, there is the emotional security to loose control(slowly) - thereby access all the locked up emotions they have held in for so long.  This is the piece about Capricorn actually wanting chaos - for the world of the inner emotional reality is the polar opposite of the controlled orderly outer constructed "˜role"˜ and they have been taught to be.  It would be like taking off a mask for them.  Finally, they can breath and naturally be who they are - their authentic self without the fear of rejection and judgement. 

The Venus in Capricorn person, having yet to grow beyond the damaging influence of parental conditioning, will typically have one of two basic orientations to self and therefore others:
First, a response to dominant, authoritative parents is to shy away, suppress natural expression, and be generally inward and quiet.  This type will typically seek out a partner who is outwardly successful, yet just as inwardly frozen and unavailable.  They have basically attracted their parent type.   
The Second would be the authoritarian type, one who takes every opportunity to outwardly express their own sense of control and authority on their relationships.  This type attracts someone who is emotionally needy and "˜needs a parent-like partner' to "˜keep them in line.' 
This second type, relative to the sn venus sag, would be acting out on their own sense of authority due to an inner lack with in - back to the inadequacy from the past being carried forward - and now amplifying their own sense of "I'm right and they are wrong"  So, in this type, we can see extremes of judgement - they have this larger vision and the rest of the "˜stupid people' fail to see the bigger picture.  This type of orientation will point to this soul not having evolved relative to the sn Venus Sag from their past.  The missed lesson in this case is that other's perspective is right for them, just as their own point of view is right for them self.  Guess they missed the point on that one!(joke)

Now, the Venus in Capricorn type also is known to carry an unresolved grief, to be in a state of perpetual mourning - relative to the sn sag - ha ha ha I'm sooo sad.   For real though, this south node of Venus in Sag will trace this unresolved grief back to their past life(a past life or lives) in which they experience a great deal of suffering and destruction around them because of religious upheavals and persecution and/or the tragic results of "˜natural disasters' including plagues, famine, and the likes. It is possible that they were in a survival state because of their beliefs and religion.  Or, vise versa, in which case they may carry a large amount of guilt because of their past involvement.  Again, the response could be "˜i now deserve to suffer' masochist or, when they need to control and dominate we see the angry sadist response.  Or both. 

The Venus in Capricorn sense of "˜going backward to go forward' coupled with the evolutionary path of Scorpio, again suggests deepening the intensity of inner soul/self searching to find the place where the original wounding occurred.  The inner child(cancer polarity point) was "˜robbed' of a full natural childhood and had the standards and judgements of an adult reality put on from an early age.  So, there is an evolutionary need to confront internally the memory of when this occurred and what their inherent natural self was prior to this.  Once done, they will metamorphosize into a true expression of who they are.  They will still of course play the "˜adult game of life' but they will also have unshackled their inner child which now realizes it need not face judgement for it's natural feelings and emotions.


Goddess Bless,
Bradley

Bradley,

SIMPLY EXCELLENT WORK.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Here's my interpretation of the first paradigm:
sn of Venus in Sag,
Venus in Cap
nn of Venus in Scorpio:

The general evolutionary implications of any south node of Venus relates to how a soul has come to listen to its own needs, how it has come to value and locate its core resources, how it has found personal meaning and worth in its own life.

This south node of Venus is in Sagittarius, correlated to a soul that has established a relationship with itself, come to find personal meaning for its life, has established self-worth for itself through seeking to understand who it is from a larger, intuitive, cosmological point of view.

This signature implies that this soul has identified either particular beleifs, philosophies, religions, ways of understanding the totality of life, or perhaps has lived many lifetimes in the context of natural law, nature herself, or enviroments that lived in relationship with natural forces. All of this would have signified the spiritual resources that have enabled this soul to define and understand who it is.

As is the nature of Venus, from the Taurean piont of view, this soul may easily be limited by the particular beleifs, philosophies etc that it has come to identify. Thus this soul may be highly identified, fixated, and stubbornly insistant (Venus) with the spiritual, intelectual, philosphical resources it has come to believe in (Sag).

This signature then implies that this soul would have been attracted to other souls that reflect a similar orientation to understanding the nature of creation. The nature of these relationships would have been a direct reflection of the inner belief structures that have been established by this soul. Thus, the possibility for having created relationships that bring up philosophical confrontations, or in another way, relationships with other souls who have shared in an intuitive and authentic lifestyle that was in harmony with natural law.

Practically, this information has more relevant value to us when related to the current life Venus in Capricorn. The core inner relationship orientation of Venus in Capricorn is to establish personal self worth through aligning with its own inner authority. There is an immense awareness and sensitivity to the status quo of one's culture, as this soul with Venus in Capricorn is acutely aware of its social participation, and thus what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. On one hand this soul can easily repress its own sexual and physical needs (Venus) on the basis of social judgement. This can easily lead to a distorted psychology whereby this soul will literally need to find ways just to connect with its body.

When this is read through the filter of the past life implications of the south node of Venus in Sag, we are looking specifically at a belief structure that has given rise to a particular code of conduct that dictates exactly how this soul is meant to behave. This soul has deeply internalized (Venus) whatever it's own philosophical orientation to life is, and will naturally express that internalization through whatever structure it has placed itself within.

Thus with this signature, in the consensus state for example, we can easily find a Pope like character, or perhaps simply a religious soul who is simply trying to do the right thing. In all cases, the inner sense of self worth is defined by social purpose and showing up to fill that purpose. However, if the belief structures that has defined what this soul has come to know about the world (sn Venus in Sag- frog in the well relative to Sag) is grossly limited and a distortion of natural law, then that distortion will very clearly express itself by way of the emotional and sexual repression, and possibly depression of this soul.

The relationships that this soul will attract will of course all be a reflection of that very dynamic. Sexuality, intimacy in general will be judged and conditioned according to the inner belief structure of these souls. In higher states of evolution, this soul can attract relationships with other souls who share a more expansive cosmological understanding, that enables a slow and steady intimacy to develop. Repression of natural urges, and the perceived conflict between what is intuiively understood to "be right" versus guilt that dictates what is, and what is not appropriate can still manifest.

In all cases, for this soul, evolution of its core values, how it is meant to understand find personal meaning in its life, is defined by the north node of Venus in Scorpio. This naturally implies a soul that desires to penetrate deeply into the underlying causes and roots behind its own psychology. Thus, this soul would unconsciously (Scorpio) attract into its life opportunities to reflect on its status quo and how its own beleifs have shaped the life it is living. This inner inquiry will enable the soul to release any latent belief structures that have conditioned the way it is living. This enables the soul to literally relax and align with natural law, in the way that is appropriate for it's ea state.

Many of these opportunities would come via confrontation with other souls, through whom, this soul would develop more self awareness behind its own psychology. This means, that this soul will be cyclicly drawn towards various relationships, perhaps sexual, or just very deep interactions with other souls who would have the effect to literally catalyze new constructive choices that allow the soul to move beyond any outdated structures in its life. This will also catalyze the venus in Capricorn to open up any blocks that it has held onto due to having learned to not feel emotionally safe to be who it is on an emotional level. In this case, we can see how confrontation (Scorpio) presses this soul to reflect on it's own repressed emotional dynamics (Cap), and the core beleifs behind these dynamics (sn in Sag)- ultimatley leading to a greater capacity to givce and receive the human affection, touch, intimacy that it needs (venus polarity point= Cancer).

Thank you as always, for this space. God Bless,
Ari Moshe

Hi Ari,

Excellent analysis of this paradigm including the possible manifestations relative to the evolutionary state.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

QuoteHi All,

Ok, seems like it is time to practice another planetary node pardigm. In this new paradigm natal Venus will be in Taurus, it's S.Node will be in Leo, and the N.Node will be in Cancer. Let's have a go at it.

God Bless, Rad

Are we assuming a natural square between Venus and its s.node, or are we still just keeping it simple?
am

Hi Ari,

If you want to consider that square please feel free to do so.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

When we see the south node of Venus in any sign, is it is possible to correlate that placement to the particular age of that sign? IE sn of Venus in Taurus- would this then correlate to the age of Taurus? And even if the soul didn't necessarily incarnate during that age, would it still correlate, on a collective consciousness level, to the karmic imprint/memory of that age?

Thank you,
Ari Moshe

Hi Ari,

Yes ............

God Bless, Rad

SN of Venus in Leo - Venus in Taurus - NN of Venus in Cancer

Natal Venus in Taurus is a life-long symbol that serves the underlying evolutionary desires and intentions that emanate from the Soul.  It acts as the integration point where the interface between the past (SN of Venus in Leo) and the future (NN of Venus in Cancer) is experienced in each moment of the current life. 

The past, as symbolized by the South Node of Venus in Leo, gives us an idea of the conditioning that created the reality of Venus in Taurus in the current life.  To help us understand the past conditioning, we would need to understand historical cycles which correlate to Leo, and which would then resonate with the Soul's South Node of Venus in Leo.

The Age of Leo - from 10,970 to 8,810 BC - coincided with massive global warming due to the heat of the Sun (ruler of Leo) causing the deglaciation of the Earth.  Astro- and geo-mythical associations during the Age of Leo refer to lions, beasts, kings and queens, sun worship, gold;  Vedic scripture describes ruling Kings who considered themselves Suryavanshi, meaning the direct descendants of the Sun;  the Egyptian pantheon reveals the myth of Sekhmet, the lion-headed deity;  and the Sphinx was sculpted in the shape of a lion sometime before 10,000 BC. 

Examine the archetypal dimensions of the SN of Venus in Leo

The archetype of the SN of Venus in Leo describes the past conditioning of the Soul in terms of absolute creative self-actualization, self-exploration, self-direction, self-motivation, strong will, power and conscious narcissism.  The Soul shone at the centre of (her) own created universe, expressed with no sense of limits, and needed to receive fundamental positive and supportive feedback.  The realization of limits created necessary humiliation of the ego which counteracted delusions of personal grandeur.   

Examine the past inner relationship to the self, and the types of external relationships symbolized by the SN of Venus in Leo

The Soul's inner relationship to the Self, as symbolized the SN of Venus in Leo, is described as a deep, positive and self-focused wellspring from which she could creatively actualize herself.  She needed necessary freedom or independence to create, and needed to receive love and attention from those around her.  If her creative efforts had been squashed due to life's circumstances, then she would have withdrawn and felt inwardly blocked from creatively actualizing, and this could have lead to displays of intense emotional tantrums and melodramatics. 

In her external relationships she could make others feel "special" or really good about themselves, because she herself basically needed this type of acknowledgment by others.  She possesses a great ability to hear and acknowledge where another is coming from, and to give encouragement through positive feedback.  If she felt loved, she could also make her partner feel loved in ways that were quite unique, so as to make them the very centre of her universe.  She attracted partners who encouraged her creative independence and self-development, and together they could live life to its fullest potential.  Sexual expression was intensely passionate and consuming, or totally withheld.   

How is Venus in Taurus going to manifest in this life relative to the Soul defining its inner relationship to itself via the Taurus archetype?

The Soul's inner relationship to herself via the Taurus archetype is a deep internalization in order to understand who she is and what she needs in order to have a sense of meaning in life.  She is self-reliant, self-sustaining, extremely resourceful and resilient.  Her value system is limited, fixed and static - but it works for her. 

How is Venus in Taurus going to manifest in this life relative to the Soul's relationships with others via the Taurus archetype?

The Soul's relationships with others via the Taurus archetype are evaluated according to her own value system.  If there is no commonality of values with others, then there is a "tuning out" or inherent resistance to their values, ideas, knowledge, or other forms of reality that are different from her own.  Therefore, she tends to evolve or grow very slowly.  If values are shared, however, then she is very warm, engaging, deep, intense, highly focused, magnetic and solid.  She will want to possess, limit and control those who hold meaning and value to her due to a fear of losing them, because that correlates to her sense of purpose for living.  This possession and control also generates an emotional psychology of jealousy, withdrawal and isolation.  She can attract others who are also controlling, and who live vicariously through her because they have no real life of their own. 

The Soul possesses a very strong basic sexual instinct, which correlates to a high value and a great sense of meaning and grounding for her, and which releases build-up of internalized emotional and psychological energy. She is sexually possessive and monogamous.  Internalized blocks to growth can lead to a polarized state within a relationship. 

She is learning how to listen to others objectively to hear and understand their needs, desires, motivations, psychological makeup, and to support their development.  She is opening up to the totality of reality that lies beyond the "˜frog in the well' reality. 

How do the prior life dynamics of SN of Venus in Leo link to, shape and condition the current life placement of Venus in Taurus?

The SN of Venus in Leo correlating to the prior life dynamics produces stress but also growth in combination with the current life placement of Venus in Taurus.  The creative frictional stimulation produced, as the past interfaces with the present moment, brings about a transformative potential.  Since the Soul has been seeking to understand herself through the expansiveness of Leo, her reality in Taurus is enlarged.  Since both Leo and Taurus are fixed qualities, she is highly resistant to change, and can be quite stubborn and rigid adhering to the past.  The bottled-up refusal to change can build pressure which will need purposeful release, so that she can yield to life's changes.

In the current life she is able to hold on tightly to the relationships that she values, by building a base of security and meaning from those resources.  She is learning how to enlarge her limited vision since the SN Leo creative self-expressive energies radiate out.  The Leo/Taurus combination creates a strong will, loyalty, strong attachments and the determination and backbone to satisfy desires and achieve goals. 

How is the current life inner relationship symbolized by Venus in Taurus being evolved through the NN of Venus in Cancer?

The Soul's inner relationship to herself via the Taurus archetype is being evolved through the NN of Venus in Cancer through a core desire to relate to herself and others as emotional beings.  Touching, holding, merging sexual and emotional energies, nurturance, empathy, and gentle words of reassurance will build a strong base of security, safety and stability for herself and her relationships.  Becoming aware of the specific causes of different emotional states, insecurities and vulnerabilities will bring self-knowledge.  In learning that security, safety and stability exist within herself, external dependencies will be minimized, she will become emotionally responsible for herself, and learn how to control her emotions. 

The sextile from Taurus to Cancer brings similar agendas, like sharing food, nurturing children, and deep family attachments.  The steadiness of Taurus can stabilize the moodiness and emotionality of Cancer, and create a feeling of emotional security where sensitivity and nurturance can be expressed.

What type of external relationships would the combination of all of these evolutionary forces create?

The combination of these evolutionary forces would create relationships that expressed creative self-actualization, self-reliance and emotional security.  The expansiveness of the Soul's past conditioning (Leo) would enlarge the limited capacity and vision of the Soul's current life (Taurus), and build a strong base of emotional security (Cancer).  Family relationships, the nurturance of children, the giving and receiving of love, food, comfort, material resources, security, and creative purpose will be important.  Relationships will generally be monogamous, loyal and nurturing. 

Hi Linda,

Just an excellent, excellent analysis and synthesis of these archetypes. It is, for me, simply an incredible pleasure to witness your growth in EA. Truly incredible, truly inspiring. Bravo !!

God Bless, Rad

I'm very happy  :D  - thank you thank you SO much Rad~!

Hi,

Let me know if any of you want to keep this thread moving forwards .............

God Bless, Rad

Yes Rad, I'm still working on this new paradigm...
Ari Moshe

Hi Rad,
I'm a little pokey, I'm working on the practice for beginners thread, so I'll pass on this example here , and see if I can continue with the next one!  Thank you, Heather

Hi Gonzalo,

Your analysis and synthesis of this paradigm is within the realm of the total spectrum of archetypal possiblities contained within this paradigm. It is one way that it could manifest. The only exception to what you have written is that there is no implied skip step with the Venus in Taurus, and it's S.Node in Leo. It is a square, but not a skipped step. Yes, the polarity point of the S.Node of Venus in Leo is Aquarius, but that does not correlate to a skipped step relative to Venus in Taurus making a square to it. The best way to understand this natural polarity point is to remember that every sign has it's natural polarity WITHIN IT. Just as the dark of night has the light of day as it's natural polarity within it. Thus, the square in this paradigm from the natal Venus in Taurus to the S.Node of Leo is what the underlying dyanmics are that contain this Aquarius polarity within it.

Pluto in Leo has it's natural evolutionary polarity of Aquarius within it. We can have Pluto in the 5th House in any sign that has it's own polarity within it, yet at the same time any 5th House Pluto's NATURAL POLARITY POINT IS THE 11TH HOUSE.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Gonzalo,

The way that JWG taught it was that the phenomena of skipped steps was specific to the Nodes of the Moon. A square to Pluto, in and of itself, is not a skipped step as you know. Of course when one employs the use of all the planetary nodes natal planets in the current birth chart can square those nodes. Simple example: millions have Neptune in Libra, and that Neptune then squares the Nodes of Pluto, Saturn, Jupiter in most cases. So, obviously, all those millions of Souls are not all going to have 'skipped steps' relative to this signature. This is actually a subject that I never remember JWG discussing at all, or writing about. To me when we do see this kind of symbolism it does have generational applications as to it's meaning, and the individual meaning within that as it is applied to each individuals birth chart: the houses that it would be in. Thus, the individuals interaction and relationship with the generation that it is born within, and how that relationship then serves the evolutionary intentions of the individual itself.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Is the reason why skipped steps only apply to the nodes of the Moon because the Moon itself correlates to the emotional body, and for all souls incarnating on earth, evolution occurs through the emotional body?

My understanding is, a soul neccesarily needs to emotionally process and integrate its own experiences in order to properly evolve from one level of consciousness to the next. However when a soul's experience is not emotionally integrated (usually as a result of conditioning or trauma) it leads to a dynamic that literally BLOCKS further evolution, as the actual self image of the soul is fractured to the point that in order to evolution to proceed, the soul needs to integrate what it has avoided.

It seems no other nodes would correlate to such a reality- except for maybe the nodes of Saturn? I ponder this because Saturn correlates to fact that it takes time for the soul to emotionally integrate its experience. Thank you,
Ari Moshe

Hi Rad,

SN of Venus in Leo, Venus in Taurus, NN of Venus in Cancer
Venus last quarter or disseminating square to its sn.

This soul has come to know itself, find value and personal meaning in its life through internalizing and discovering tangibly for itself a creative purpose that is entirely unique unto itself. The sn of Venus in Leo correlates to a soul that has lived many lifetimes cultivating a necessarily highly narcissistic self orientation whereby it has become starkly aware of its own innate specialness.

On one level, this correlates to the actual age of Leo. Whether this soul actually incarnated during that time, there is a collective imprint of the consciousness at that time. I'm going to write what I intuitively feel/see when I allow my mind to tap into the Leo age. This is not empirical knowledge, and yet I'm also not guessing. I apologize if such an approach is not appropriate here. I trust you will let me know...

The essence of the age of Leo, collectively for all souls at that time was to form civilizations that were centered around recognizing and directly connecting to the source of manifested creation. The intent on a collective level was to actualize to the highest extent that was possible, the creative potential within each soul. The natural polarity to Leo, Aquarius, points to the fact that communities came together/ civilizations were born in order to enable this consciousness to develop. Depending on all the possible level's of evolution- during this age, there would have been few self realized souls who experienced their own inner power through directly knowing themselves as expressions of divine intelligence. These souls would have possessed natural knowledge of creation and the secrets theirin. Relative to the Aquarius polarity, these souls would have been spiritual leaders, centers of their communities that brought forth the wisdom of that era.

On other levels of evolution: the conquest of personal importance. Many souls from this age have developed a god complex, or have idealized their own human potential, and even of their own community/society (Aquarius polarity) to the point of thinking of themselves as greater or more special than they actually were. This would have manifested as various souls taking all the power and demanding attention and esteem from the collective.

Children, naturally correlate to the phenomena of creation, and the innocent awareness of life as a continuous act of creation. Children would have played central roles in various societies during the age of Leo. Again, depending on level's of evolution of these societies, children may have even served as spiritual leaders based on the intuitive recognition that children, in their essence, are exemplifications of God's creative intelligence. On more consensus levels of evolution, Children may have been used as objects that symbolize, in rituals that worship an externalized source of creation.

This soul has been born into special roles by which all it has come to know (Venus) has been the unique role that it has played. This may have often manifested early in life, while still a child.
This soul has thus lived many lifetimes through which the inner resources that it has identified have been linked with the specialness of its role. There may be a deep need to receive attention, adoration and affection from others on the basis of needing constant reassurance that it is in fact special.

However with respect to the square from Venus in Taurus, we see that in prior lifetimes, this soul has in fact experienced a crisis linked to having become deeply withdrawn and protective of itself on the basis of either needing to survive and persevere in order to achieve its purpose, or in another way, simply on the basis of always having received what it needed (such as being born as a pharoh, or something similar to that, and having all its needs met from the get-go and not needing to do a thing for itself).

Therefore, the Leonian narcisissm has expressed not by overtly "hogging" attention, rather, this soul has learned how to develop self sufficieny within itself to the point of being highly stubborn and overly content on what it knew, what it was doing, and what it's sense of purpose was. This soul has been learning how to validate and find all of it's specialness from within its own self- whatever that may have looked like.

This has created conflict whereby this soul has naturally been resistant and uninterested in validating or acknowledging other people's uniqueness or purpose, or the fact that it's own need to constantly feel self assured from within itself, would attract confrontation from other partners that the soul was unwilling to embraace. These signatures imply that this soul has not been interested in confrontation.

Even in the latter part of the spiritual state, this soul may be a spiritual teacher that does not need anyone, and simply inhabits it's special purpose based on an inner knowing of what it is here to do. The conflict that would manifest in such a case is attracting relationships into its life whereby it is completely unwilling to share itself or budge from it's own sense of destiny. This would lead to its own partners feeling invalidated and ignored.

The same pattern would manifest in any level of evolution. The essence, relative to the Taurus polarity, Scorpio, is avoiding confrontation and an unwillingness to look beyond what it knows. Through the filter of the sn in Leo- all of this has been linked to a need to identify and inhabit its own specialness.

The fact that its a last quarter/disseminating square implies that this soul has been developing the Taurian quality of self sufficiency, self reliance for a long time now, and at this point is faced with the opportunity to find a new way to actualize itself by rebelling from the ways it has previously found it necessary to participate in society. Thus new choices and decisions may be made in this life. The catalyst for these choices will again be the catalyzing reflection of the relationships this soul attracts into its life, as well as an inner stagnation that catalyzes further reflection on what new steps need to be taken (ie not having made enough money).

The key for integrating that square, as well as the key for evolving the values and personal meaning that this soul has of its own life, is through the nn of Venus, which is in Cancer. The north node of Venus correlates to the way that self awareness leads to a new expression of self embodiment. In this case, it describes the inner values and resources that this soul, via Venus in Taurus, is realizing.

This specifically points to the emotional body. It is an evolutionary intent for this soul to become aware of its own subjective needs- in particular the needs that it cannot fulfill on its own, or will not be automatically fulfilled on its own (sit on throne while being fed grapes from a vine= sn in leo square Taurus). There is a vulnerability, and maturity found in that vulnerability that enables this soul to live a life that reflects the values of nurturing and emotional intelligence. In so doing, this soul evolves beyond the "survival crisis" which has previously manifested as "I gotta do it my way, alone, all the time" to "my way includes family. My way includes the emotional body. I recognize and embrace those in my life that I am dependent on." This leads to an actual reinvention of itself- whereby it is able to provide for those in its life in ways it was previously not capable of (Leo narcissistic blindness relative to Taurus frog in the well) such as its own children.

In so doing, this soul is capable of dealing with the confrontations that arise in relationships (Venus polarity in Scorpio), as it will no longer need to "run away" based on the need for isolation or fixation on unnecessary ways of being (Taurus) in order to maintain it's deeply ingrained sense of importance (Leo).

With Love,
Ari Moshe

Hi Ari,

The core reason is because the Moon correlates to the egocentric structure that the Soul creates in each life, individual lives, that reflect and correlate to it's evolutionary, karmic, intentions and needs in each life. And, as you have said rightly, those intentions, etc, must be actualized and integrated through the emotional body. This is why the Moon, Pluto, and Neptune, the 4th, 8th, and 12th have a natural trinity: the totality of the emtional body. The archetypes themselves that correlate to God, Soul, and the Ego.



God Bless, Rad

Hi Ari,

I really enjoyed reading how you synthesized the archetypes of the nodes in this paradigm, and the distant link to the Leo Age. All of what you wrote is possible within the total spectrum symbolized by these archetypes. The only 'correction' is the S.Node of Venus, relative to natal Venus in Taurus, is a first quarter square because the mean motion of the nodes, the exception being the nodes of the Moon, is forwards, not retro. Very, very good work Ari.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Does the house where a planetary node falls have any significance?  -  or is it only the sign of the planetary node that we are concerned with?

Thanks.

Hi Linda,

Yes, it does. Remember in EA analysis the House always comes first as the foundation for any given symbol, and then relative to that archetypal foundation all is then added or built upon that foundation.

God Bless, Rad

It is great to read your posts y'all.
I've been so busy, I honestly do not know when I'd post next.
On a positive note, there has been no lack of EA in my life.  Folks in my community have been wanting to learn more thru convversation and study together; when i finally set a date for an EA study group, we have seven folks coming over on top of seven readings next week.  I love EA and am so thankful.  I know I have so much to learn still and will have time to post and catch up on others posts eventually.  Much love.
b

wanted to add one more beautiful thing that has happened that i feel is beneficial to share; posting it on the allies of natural healing or whatever that thread is exactly called

Hi Bradley,

This is so great to hear. And God bless you for helping spread the teachings of EA.


God Bless, Rad

So awesome to hear that Bradley!

Love this.  Thanks for all the detail.   8)

Hi Planetary Nodes Group,

Let me know if any of you wish to continue this thread, or if anyone wishes to join it.

God Bless, Rad

Me too - I would love to continue learning and practicing with the Planetary Nodes.  Thank you Rad.

Rad and All,

I have decided to focus my time on the homework working towards the certification as an evolutionary astrologer.  I will be popping in from time to time, but not as often.  I did commit to helping with the Capricorn Thread when the time comes. 
In gratitude,
Bradley

Hi Rad,

I'm definitely interested, but cannot participate until after New Year, sometime in January, if the thread is active then. Thanks very much.

blessings Upasika

Hi Rad,

I would like to join in and learn more about planetary nodes.  Thank you  :)

Hi Rad I'm interested in continuing.
God bless,
Ari Moshe

Hi Planetary Node Practice Group,

Ok, so let's start work on another planetary nodes paradigm. I think it might be interesting to use the current planetary nodes of Mercury in our next exercise. The S.Node of Mercury now is in Sagittarius, the N.Node in Capricorn, and the current Mercury is now retrograde in Capricorn conjunct it's N.Node.

So let's have a go of it.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,
I would like to continue!
Heather

Hi Heather,

Great, and good to hear.

God Bless, Rad

Rad, thank you for the new assignment.

Julie, welcome to our messageboard.

Thank you Linda.   :) 

I'm going to participate in this one too.

Stacie

And I second that..  Welcome Julie!

Blessings,
Stacie

Hi Julie!
Heather

Thank you Stacie and Heather  :D

Quote from: Rad on Dec 13, 2010, 12:05 PM
Hi Planetary Node Practice Group,

Ok, so let's start work on another planetary nodes paradigm.

I think it might be interesting to use the current planetary nodes of Mercury in our next exercise. The S.Node of Mercury now is in Sagittarius, the N.Node in Capricorn, and the current Mercury is now retrograde in Capricorn conjunct it's N.Node.

So let's have a go of it.

God Bless, Rad

Just re-posting the new paradigm set by Rad onto this page.

SN of Mercury in Sagittarius
Current Mercury Rx in Capricorn (conjunct its NN)
NN of Mercury in Capricorn

Natal Mercury Rx in Capricorn is a life-long symbol that serves the underlying evolutionary desires and intentions that emanate from the Soul.  It acts as the integration point where the interface between the past (SN of Mercury in Sagittarius) and the future (NN of Mercury in Capricorn) is experienced in each moment of the current life.  

The past, as symbolized by the South Node of Mercury in Sagittarius, gives us an idea of the conditioning that created the reality of Mercury Rx in Capricorn in the current life.  To help us understand the past conditioning, we would need to understand historical and pre-historical cycles, as well as astrological ages and sub-ages pertaining to Gemini and Sagittarius as these would resonate with the Soul's SN of Mercury in Sagittarius.  

The Age of Gemini (6450 BC - 4300 BC) is associated with communication, development of writing, the spread of new languages, increased trade, mobility, the wheel used for transportation, and the worship of multiple gods (Greek pantheon) and twin-gods (Sun/Moon principle, divine horse twins, solar chariots).  The Age of Sagittarius (18,745 - 16,759 BCE) is associated with natural law, Gaia-Earth Mother, clay pottery, nomadic hunter-gatherer cultures, agriculture in the Near East, changing religions/worship, Native American traditions of Father Sun and Mother Earth, and ancient schools.  Gemini and Sagittarius in ancient times coincided with maritime technology, hunter-gatherers, cuneiform writing, development of core agricultural techniques (Sumer), and the emergence of distinctive cultures (Fertile Crescent, Neolithic 3).

Resonating with the sub-ages of Gemini and Sagittarius, the Soul with the South Node of Mercury in Sagittarius felt an affinity with the whole of nature;  worshiped the natural god (nature);   gave names to flora, fauna, food, implements, and gods;   constantly traveled about in the environment and further afield (nomadic);  built canoes and island-hopped or crawled across continents in search of new foods;  tracked animals;  learned new survival skills;  taught others in its clan or group by passing on information and wisdom;  taught in ancient schools;  formulated language and written expression (cuneiform script, pictographs, geometrical patterns, symbols for numbers, rock/wall paintings, carvings, inscriptions on clay tablets, hieroglyphics, systems of clay tokens to count agricultural food);  mapped the stars;  and constantly expanded his intellectual structures through new discoveries and travel and settlement in new places.

In early times, the Soul started thinking, "What is the meaning of this?" - "What are these lights in the sky?" - "What is this?" - "What is that?"  At first he didn't understand, but his constantly searching and questioning mind allowed him to notice cycles in nature, the tides, animal mating seasons, comets appearing in the sky, phases of the moon, etc.  These were all wondrous things for his curious and pondering mind.  He had to learn how to articulate what he was learning from his environment, and how to pass on this information in written form to future generations.

Examine the archetypal dimensions of the SN of Mercury in Sagittarius

Gemini (air) and Sagittarius (fire) are both yang, male, and mutable (adaptable) signs.  The fundamental archetype of Mercury is described by giving names and classifications to the phenomenal nature of reality. The fundamental archetype of Sagittarius is the basis of philosophical thinking, pondering, speculation, and truth relative to the phenomena of creation.  The past conditioning of the Soul in terms of the SN of Mercury in Sagittarius describes a never-ending mental search for new information that allowed him to make wider and wider connections to the larger universe.

Examine the archetypal dimensions of the current life Mercury Rx in Capricorn

The Retrograde function describes a liberation and individuation process for the function of Mercury that is independent from culturally accepted ways of behaviour in the mainstream of society.  The Soul dealt with an overly active mind prior to the current life, and so is repeating, reliving or recreating life circumstances so that the evolutionary intentions of Mercury Rx are resolved.  The Soul has his own way of thinking and doing things since the Rx functions in a Uranian way, hence the evolutionary pace of Mercury is accelerated and the need for freedom is heightened.  The Soul develops his mental powers and intellectual abilities in his own unique way.  He has a natural intellectual curiosity and need to understand the philosophies,  ideologies and cosmologies of his world in larger and larger frameworks.  There is constant movement and restlessness in his interaction with others in the environment.  Mercury in Capricorn is concerned with organization, structural dynamics, planning, practicality, efficiency, personal authority, realism, emotional and social maturity, setting boundaries and dealing with limitations.

How do the prior life dynamics of SN of Mercury in Sagittarius link to, shape and condition the current life placement of Mercury Rx in Capricorn?

The SN of Mercury in Sagittarius interfaces with the current life Mercury Rx in Capricorn by combining natural and expansive thinking/communication patterns with contracted or distorted thinking/communication patterns;  or an expression or understanding of natural law (truths that are self-evident within nature) -v- man-made law.  The Soul's mental structures had been greatly broadened, but the current life mental structures are somewhat restricted.  He is able to bring an intuitive faculty to practical rationalizations, the desire for honest and truthful expression, the drive to expose lies or half-truths, humour, lightness, optimism, faith, wisdom, good teaching skills, strong sense of morals and belief systems, and a quest for higher meaning and values.  The Soul could feel quite alienated trying to adapt to a mainstream frame of mind because of a very expansive and free way of thinking in the past.  He could try to force his point of view onto others with deep conviction.  This combination describes the need to take responsibility for the words one speaks (such as gossip, lies, dishonesty, harsh/unbending/dominating attitude, etc) based on societal judgment, but also the Soul wanting to do things in his own unique way.

How is the current life function of Mercury Rx in Capricorn being evolved through the NN of Mercury in Capricorn?

The Soul's evolution would continue through the archetype of Mercury in Capricorn by endeavouring to pierce through self-defeating mental structures or an attitude of futility.  The pressure would be greater to conform to what the consensus dictates, so the Soul learns to develop and express his evolutionary intention by initiating change, developing self-determination, discipline, responsibility, social and emotional maturity, understanding the limits of his personal and social power, and actualizing his ambitions as defined by his society.  Depressed or reflective thinking processes become necessary so as to create the awareness of what he needs to structurally change within his intellectual organization and what new ideas, desires or ambitions he needs to initiate in his inner and outer reality.  

What would the combination of all of these evolutionary forces create?

The SN of Mercury in Sagittarius correlates to a sense of restlessness, a need to explore, and to understand his connection to the larger forces in the world and in the universe.  The Soul's thinking/communication patterns correlate to making generalizations or trying to convince and convert others to his point of view in order to feel emotionally secure (the past).  This leads to intellectual or philosophical disagreements with others.  Through the current life Mercury Rx in Capricorn the Soul becomes aware of the limitations in his belief systems or intellectual organization.  The process of reflection allows an evolution toward a larger truth.  Incorporating the past understanding of natural law, evolution through the NN of Mercury in Capricorn is a process of reflection into what intellectual structures need to be changed, and what new structures need to be initiated and developed.  

Hi Linda,

Excellent analysis and syntheses of this paradigm including the link to the prior astrological eras. One of the evolutionary needs of any Mercury retrograde symbol, no matter what the sign, is to eliminate or jettison an existing ideas that have accumulated within the Soul that need to be let go of so that the evolution of the Soul can proceed. And, because of this, when we see Mercury retro in a birth chart it will commonly correlate to a Soul that can only take in new information that is specific to it's own evolutionary needs. When it is orientated to information that it actually needs in order for it's evolution to proceed this can then create a 'photographic' memory. So, if you feel like it, see if you can apply these archetypal correlations of the Mercury retrograde to what you have already stated.

Bravo Linda..............

God Bless, Rad 

Thank you so much for your feedback Rad.  It is helping me out of my comfort zone, stretching the mind, and using the intuition to comprehend deeper truths within this paradigm.  I am meditating on the symbols again, and trying to formulate something along the lines you suggested.

Hi Rad, I'll be on retreat for a week so I most likely wont complete this until after new years, just wanted to give you the heads up. I look forward to working on this.
With Love
am

Hi Rad and all,

Here's my first attempt...not really sure if I'm on the right track but would appreciate any feedback.  :) 

The S.Node of Mercury now is in Sagittarius, the N.Node in Capricorn, and the current Mercury is now retrograde in Capricorn conjunct it's N.Node.

The natal position of Mercury in the south node symbolizes the way the individual communicated in the past and may be continuing to communicate in this pattern now because it is a form of emotional security for the individual.  Mercury signifies how we mentally organize the information we take from the external environment which is based on our pre-existing notions of our beliefs which also determine the type of information we allow in.

With Mercury in Sagittarius, the individual's past dynamics may have been exaggeration, dishonesty, etc"¦distorted expressions of the sign due to overcompensation.  There may also have been a need to convince and convert others to his/her beliefs due to their insecurities with a tendency for broad generalizations.

With NN Mercury, the planet is actualized through new levels of expression.  NN being in Capricorn, the placement here symbolizes the need to express a personal voice of authority in society in which this voice must come from within and not based upon a social role.

With current Mercury retrograde, an acceleration of evolution must now occur where the individual rebels against the consensus through a deep disconnection with the consensus triggering psychological withdrawal from the consensus resulting in feelings of isolation.  With respect to Mercury and where it's located, it needs to be expressed in a unique and individualized manner.  Having retrograde Mercury conjunct the NN, it needs to be consciously experienced but could be experienced as disassociation, disillusionment, and alienation.  By going through this disillusionment, the individual learns that ultimate meaning can't be found in any external condition or person.  The conjunction located with this aspect is teaching the individual the nature of his/her delusions and illusions.

God Bless,
Julie

Hi Julie,

Quote from: Julie on Jan 02, 2011, 09:11 PM
Hi Rad and all,

Here's my first attempt...not really sure if I'm on the right track but would appreciate any feedback.  :) 

The S.Node of Mercury now is in Sagittarius, the N.Node in Capricorn, and the current Mercury is now retrograde in Capricorn conjunct it's N.Node.

The natal position of Mercury in the south node symbolizes the way the individual communicated in the past and may be continuing to communicate in this pattern now because it is a form of emotional security for the individual.  Mercury signifies how we mentally organize the information we take from the external environment which is based on our pre-existing notions of our beliefs which also determine the type of information we allow in.

******************************************************************

The information that the Soul seeks in any placement by sign and house correlates to what the Soul needs relative to it's ongoing evolutionary needs.

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With Mercury in Sagittarius, the individual's past dynamics may have been exaggeration, dishonesty, etc"¦distorted expressions of the sign due to overcompensation.  There may also have been a need to convince and convert others to his/her beliefs due to their insecurities with a tendency for broad generalizations.

***********************************************************************

Over compensation for what ? In EA we need to focus on cause and effect versus descriptive statements. What insecurities would exist that would cause the Soul to convince and covert others ? Allow yourself to contemplate the totality of the Sagittarius archetype so that you can expand on S.Node of Mercury being in Sagittarius.

*****************************************************************

With NN Mercury, the planet is actualized through new levels of expression.  NN being in Capricorn, the placement here symbolizes the need to express a personal voice of authority in society in which this voice must come from within and not based upon a social role.

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It is just as possible for the Soul to find a social position in which it's need to express it's own sense of authority about what it thinks it knows. What it thinks that it knows can be a causative factor in finding a social role to express it's need for authority. And, again, from an EA point of view, what is the link between the S.Node being in Sagittarius to the current life of having the N.Node being in Capricorn ?

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With current Mercury retrograde, an acceleration of evolution must now occur where the individual rebels against the consensus through a deep disconnection with the consensus triggering psychological withdrawal from the consensus resulting in feelings of isolation.

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What if the Soul is in fact in a Consensus State ? What would it mean then ?

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With respect to Mercury and where it's located, it needs to be expressed in a unique and individualized manner.  Having retrograde Mercury conjunct the NN, it needs to be consciously experienced but could be experienced as disassociation, disillusionment, and alienation.

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Why ?

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By going through this disillusionment, the individual learns that ultimate meaning can't be found in any external condition or person.  The conjunction located with this aspect is teaching the individual the nature of his/her delusions and illusions.

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What illusions and delusions would those be, and where do them come from ?

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Good first effort Julie. Please review the comments above and, if you feel like it, try to expand upon what you wrote based on them.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Thank you for the comments.  I'll try and expand on it more.  Thank you again.

Hi All,

For those of you who have been participating in this thread I would like to know what you want to do. Do you want to start a new paradigm, or are any of you still wanting to add to the existing one ?

God Bless, Rad

Hi Gonzalo,

What you have presented and shared is simply astounding and incredible. I would like to suggest that you consider writing a book for about Mercury's role within Evolutionary Astrology. At this point in time we have a publisher in England, Wessex, who very much desires to publish substantial works on EA. If I remember right you have Uranus in the 3rd. You would be a perfect vehicle to write on Mercury's role in EA Gonzalo.

Just incredible work.

God Bless, Rad

SN of Mercury in Sagittarius
Current Mercury Rx in Capricorn (conjunct its NN)
NN of Mercury in Capricorn

Quote from: Rad on Dec 22, 2010, 11:19 AMOne of the evolutionary needs of any Mercury retrograde symbol, no matter what the sign, is to eliminate or jettison existing ideas that have accumulated within the Soul that need to be let go of so that the evolution of the Soul can proceed. And, because of this, when we see Mercury retro in a birth chart it will commonly correlate to a Soul that can only take in new information that is specific to it's own evolutionary needs. When it is orientated to information that it actually needs in order for it's evolution to proceed this can then create a 'photographic' memory. So, if you feel like it, see if you can apply these archetypal correlations of the Mercury retrograde to what you have already stated.

Hi Rad,

This is my brief "re-do" as suggested by you:

The evolutionary need of Mercury Rx is to eliminate an over-abundance of existing ideas that have accumulated within the Soul.  These existing ideas are described by the Planetary South Node of Mercury in Sagittarius and include patterns of writing, speaking, communicating, methods of collecting information and data, techniques dealing with daily environment, perceptions, and modes of thinking.  

The accumulated communication/thinking patterns were made up of a great variety of:  philosophies;  world views;  inquiries and examinations into science, ecology, astrology, psychology;  desire to travel to different countries and experience different cultures;  educational systems or methods of study/learning;  spiritual teachings and teachers;  consciousness-expanding techniques;  religious dogma;  and mysticism.

So that the evolution of the Soul can proceed, the Mercury Rx function allows the Soul to throw off the old modes of thinking and excessive ideological baggage.  This takes place in a unique Uranian kind of way, with the freedom to throw off this excess information becoming heightened and accelerated.

Depressed or reflective thinking processes become necessary so as to create the awareness of what the Soul needs to structurally change within his intellectual organization (ie what he needs to throw off based on the limitations in his belief systems or intellectual organization) and what new ideas, desires or ambitions he needs to initiate in his inner and outer reality, so as to build a new intellectual framework that is stronger than the previous one (SN Mercury in Sag) and allows an evolution toward a larger truth (Cap).

In the current life, the Soul can only take in new information that is specific to it's evolutionary needs, as described by the current Mercury Rx in Capricorn.  Basically the Soul is throwing off the excess of information so that the quantity becomes more conservative.  The unrestrained search for information is quietened, and the Soul becomes concerned with developing a mental/intellectual "structure" that serves a societal purpose.  The Soul maintains his natural intellectual curiosity but this is carried out in a more orderly fashion, restricting what is unnecessary, and allowing what is essential.  The Soul builds and constructs his intellectual framework in a self-determined and organized way, thus working toward achieving personal authority.

The need to take in new information specific to its ongoing evolutionary needs is described by the Planetary North Node of Mercury in Capricorn.  This need can create a photographic memory or an ability to organize certain types of information.  The Soul will remember what it "understands" or what is of value to it in its evolutionary journey, rather than meaningless information.  

~ ~ ~

Thanks Rad.  I hope this is accurate.

Hi Linda,

Good job Linda.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad, finally here it is! Thank you always for your patience with me.

QuoteI think it might be interesting to use the current planetary nodes of Mercury in our next exercise. The S.Node of Mercury now is in Sagittarius, the N.Node in Capricorn, and the current Mercury is now retrograde in Capricorn conjunct it's N.Node. 

Mercury correlates to the function of perception; how a soul picks up various data and information from its environment, processes that information and integrates it to recognize and decifer phenomenal reality. It also corresponds to the particular information that the soul is naturally drawn to investigate. Interpreting the south node of Mercury is a looking glass into the mind of the soul- and the deductive faculties it has developed.

South node of Mercury in Sagittarius correlates to a soul that has lived many life times developing its intuition as a medium of thought. Thus this soul has been interested in information that pertains to understanding the meaning of life from a cosmological, philosophical or spiritual point of view.

Innate within this signature is also a vast curiosity to find the truth- and thus many lifetimes of this soul "going on a journey" to connect the dots of it's own understanding- filling in the blank spaces with more experience that ultimately serves to make more sense out of life. Both the possibility of getting lost in seeking to the point of acquiring too much data, sometimes making sense and other times not at all, as well as the possibility of becoming defensive over the ideas that it has logically formulated to itself based on some sort of belief system that "proves itself" through a narrow scope of data (ie belief in creationism, logically proved on the based on limited data).

Sagittarius corresponds to the noumena. What life is in its essence. The point of this signature is to develop an awareness of the logical principals that govern natural law. Basically, this soul has been engaged in the study of how truth operates, varying according to evolutionary state.

This soul also has a memory of a time when all souls lived in accordance to natural law. This would correspond to the age of Sagittarius. This soul memory also corresponds to the Gemini Sub age of Sagittarius- (Originally, I was hoping to understand these ages through the yugas, but I'm unclear about all of that right now. So I'll let that one rest). The most recent age that occured was the age of Gemini. Intuitively, this age corresponds to the time when all souls were developing the faculty of perception- relating to reality from the point of view of the mind. Collecting data, naming things, creating classifications. This is also when the interconnectedness between human and nature became logically understood (Gemini= enviroment). Thus this age corresponds a time when souls began studying the patterns of nature, the patterns of the earth, and shaping life styles that interact with those patterns. Thus agriculture and other such projects became wide spread.

Natal Mercury is placed in Capricorn and is retrograde. It is also on the north node of Capricorn. This has various implications. The cosmology established in Sagittarius becomes the basis of the structures that are crystalized in Capricorn. In this case, the soul has been heavily immersed in it's society by way of having held the role to structure, organize, and define the cosmology of the times. The need for a common language that would provide cohesion for the community and a common reference point is implied in Capricorn. Thus this soul has been interested in documenting, "writing the book" so to speak about how life operates. Thus this soul has been immensely self aware of social opinion and judgements when it comes to consensus opinions of what is true and what is not true. This isn't just about over-arching philosophies, this would correlate to how society viewed itself in relation to nature in all regards- even down to gender roles (The age of Gemini proceeded the age of Cancer. Thus this soul has been a part of a world that gradually began to view itself as actually being separate from nature. And has begun to "think" itself as being other than what it naturally is. Point and case: the garden of eden myth and the "tree of knowledge").

In the consensus state this soul has been completely a part of the consensus reality and has adopted and perhaps been responsible for the application of the ideas, and the words/language/vocabulary that reflect those ideas about life. This can also correlate to particular religions that institutionalized various cannons as "sacred text" (Capricorn by way of Sag). This can also have manifested as structuring the scientific knowledge of the time. This knoweldge would have been whatever was the prevailing beleif. Based on the retrogradation of Mercury, and it being on it's own north node, this soul has developed immensely in this area, however has been overly focused on it's purpose to the point of overemphasizing its own use of logic. This has created an abundance of extraneous ideas about how to live, what is right and wrong etc that are way too complicated and complex. In this life, the core intent of this signature is for this soul to actually detach itself from the beleifs and values of the consensus reality and reflect, introspect into the nature of it's own ideas and, on its own, come to realize what is relevant to its social purpose and actually helpful in creating tangible social definition, and what is not. This would then enable the soul to respond to the consensus need for clear definition without getting convoluded by too many point of views. In the end gaining the necessary social credentials (Capricorn) such that it's words can be trusted and credible in society is important. This adds the emphasis and pressure for this soul to work this out.

In the individuated state this would correlate to a soul that has had a wide exposure to various cultuers and cosmologies and is innately interested on deconditioning its mind such that it can understand life and speak a language that is common to all, not just based on a limited world view. The essence of this signature in this state is developing the rational function, so that ideas can be scientifically tested to reality. This again requires effort by way of the soul becoming inwardly focused in order to investigate and explore what actually is, the way things are. Then this soul may have a specific social role to fulfill on behalf of its community, especially in the latter stages of the individuated state, that has to do with defining a particular social vision that would create community organization and co-hesion. This role may be about awareness of government policies, writting about human's innate relationship with nature (permaculture for example), re-defining certain terms, words, concepts that are more true to the way things are (such as the use of gender pronouns) etc.

In the spiritual state this would correlate to a soul that is wired to understand the underlying principals of manifested creation and to communicate them in such a way that these principals can become embraced on a collective level as social concepts that are universal and timeless. Thus learning how to write, communicate and define the nature of things in a way that provides intellectual and philosopohical co-hesion and direction. The challenge for this soul would be learning to differentiate between what is true and what is just a beleif. Thus the necessity to commit to a personal life of self inquiry, personal investigation into one's own nature in order to discover the truth. This soul may have been a part of spiritual groups, or may have even been a leader of such groups. In all cases the soul needs to reflect on the ideas that have become crystalized in its consciousness and understand, on its own, how those ideas are in fact just a patriarchal distortion (Capricorn). Through this introspection, this soul will gradually develop the self mastery that will enable it to become focused entirely on a spiritual path that provides the language and context for understanding natural law. In higher states of evolution for example, this soul can commit itself to providing very clear definition and language that can guide others. This language will eventually become so socially concrete, and structurally clear, that it may become almost like a dictionary for a particular spiritual modality, or cosmological system of thought.

In all cases, these signatures imply a soul that is highly sensitive to the fact that it has work to do (Capricorn) and thus gradually aware of the limitation of years it has in this world. This is a soul who at first will lack the focus and self awareness that enables it to develop it's own understanding in the appropriate way (mercury retrograde), and yet over time, if this soul develops the maturity, will excell greatly in this area to the point of becoming highly specialized and expert at whatever mental constructs it is organizing (Mercury retrograde, conjunct nn of Mercury in Capricorn).

God Bless,
Ari Moshe

Hi Ari,

SIMPLY EXCEPTIONAL WORK ARI. Bravo !!

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,
I've had to skip this last paradigm.  I will attempt the next one.
Thank you , and blessings, Heather.

Wow, this thread is so fascinating to read!  I hope to join back in at some point (too many other learning curves right now).

As I was reading through though, a question arose.  How common is it for a soul to have a natal planet, say Venus, in the same sign and similar degree as the SN of that planet, i.e., natal Venus in Leo 7 with SN of Venus in Leo 2?

And what about soul's with natal planets conjunct the collective nodes, such as north and south of Saturn, Jupiter, Neptune, Pluto, Uranus?  Are there specific implications for those individuals?  For instance a soul with Mercury in Sag conjunct the SN of Uranus, or natal Moon in Capricorn 24, conjunct SN of Pluto 20 Capricorn and SN of Saturn 25 Capricorn?

Are these aspects important considerations?  Maybe these questions have already been answered?

Thanks Rad.

Blessings,
Wendy

Hi Wendy,

Quote from: Wendy on Jan 29, 2011, 08:39 AM
Wow, this thread is so fascinating to read!  I hope to join back in at some point (too many other learning curves right now).

As I was reading through though, a question arose.  How common is it for a soul to have a natal planet, say Venus, in the same sign and similar degree as the SN of that planet, i.e., natal Venus in Leo 7 with SN of Venus in Leo 2?

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Of course this can happen, and it is not uncommon.

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And what about soul's with natal planets conjunct the collective nodes, such as north and south of Saturn, Jupiter, Neptune, Pluto, Uranus?  Are there specific implications for those individuals?  For instance a soul with Mercury in Sag conjunct the SN of Uranus, or natal Moon in Capricorn 24, conjunct SN of Pluto 20 Capricorn and SN of Saturn 25 Capricorn?

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The implications are that are that all Soul's have their unique evolutionary and karmic history that leads the Soul into each life. The collective nodes all correlate to specific astrological ages and sub-ages in which all of us either have lived in those times and/or our consciousness is drawing from those times: the collective consciousness/unconsciousness. When natal planets conjunct those those collective nodes it means that the nature of those astrological ages and their sub-ages have been directly experienced by the Soul and is thus conditioning the Soul's consciousness in the current life.

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Are these aspects important considerations?  Maybe these questions have already been answered?

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Yes, they are very important to consider.

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God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad, I haven't been able to keep my mind focussed lately. I'll have to come back to the practice threads at another time. Thank you for the support. Heather

Hi All,

Please let me know if any of you wish to continue with this thread on planetary nodes.

God Bless, Rad

Yes thanks Rad, I think more practice would be helpful.

I'm always keen to do these practice topics Rad, but health and world structure issues are dominating my time at the moment so cannot participate just now. But I certainly appreciate them, and if the time and energy does become available in the future I'll definitely be into it - can't for a little while now though.

Thanks for the opportunity to continue with this Rad. I'd love to.

Hi Linda and Ari,

So it seems that it's you two who want to continue. That is fine with me. Right now I am thinking that it might be an amazing journey is we looked at the birth chart of Jesus, and put in all his planetary nodes. We could investigate this together just to see what we come up with. I also have the chart of when he was crucified. It could be pretty amazing to put all that together. So let me know if you guys want to go on such a journey together. If not, we can continue in the way that we have been doing.

God Bless, Rad

Yes, thank you Rad, I would be interested in examining the birth chart
and crucifixion chart of Jesus in terms of the Planetary Nodes.

That sounds very exciting! I'm interested in that, thank you.

Hi Gonzalo, Linda, and Ari,

Ok, here is the natal chart of Jesus, and the chart of his crucifixion. The planetary nodes of Jesus are these:

Mercury:  N.Node = 18 Pisces ................ S.Node = 12 Aquarius
Venus:    N.Node = 10 Aries .................. S.Node = 29 Capricorn
Mars:      N.Node = 12 Aries ...................S.Node = 15 Sagittarius
Saturn:   N.Node = 0  Cancer..................S.Node = 10 Capricorn
Uranus:   N.Node = 1 Gemini ...................S.Node = 7 Sagittarius
Neptune  N.Node = 18 Cancer..................S.Node = 21 Capricorn
Pluto      N.Node =  21 Gemini .................S.Node = 24 Sagittarius

So what I would like us to do is examine all of the South Planetary Nodes as they lead to the life of Jesus. Later on we can talk about the N.Nodes. Especially as they apply to the Crucifixion day.

God Bless, Rad

Here it is with the nodes in around the wheel.

(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/arimoshe/Jesuswithnodes.jpg)

This is so cool. I first want to share that when I was 14, in yeshiva during Jewish history class, I remember how excited I was when we started learning about the time period of Jesus and the Essenes. This was highly unusual for an orthodox Jew! As I prepared to write, I had a moment of utter amazement that years later I get to analyze the chart of this great soul, who is very close to my heart- my soul.

First, basic ea state: latter third stage spiritual. It seems, based on the life that I have learned about (outside of the gospels), that he reached the final stages of the third stage of the spiritual state in that lifetime. However, I wonder if that is true based on the crucifixion, and his seeming last minute Virgo doubting "My God, why have you forsaken me?" Does this implies that he left this world with still unresolved desires?

My first observations of this chart is that all the south planetary nodes fall in the signs of Sag, Capricorn and Aquarius, in his 12th, 1st and second houses.

The basic implications of this correlate to prophesy/preaching/teaching, social responsibility/leadership, revolution/social change (the astrological signs) as well as a soul that was in communion with Creator, a loner and a hermit (the houses)

Starting with natal Pluto and the evolutionary signatures of his chart in the context of the sn of Pluto. This soul has been highly focused, and has had the purpose of assisting groups of people (or we can say humanity on the level of the masses- Neptune in the 11th conj sn) to decondition from the beliefs, religions, ideas etc that are reflected in the Judea Christian outlook. Moving beyond guilt (Pluto in Virgo in the 9th house). However also implied in this is a strong degree of pushiness and passion when it comes to communicating his vision to the masses. He himself has been learning the lesson of forgiveness, to embrace an idea of God that is entirely beyond any notion of should, guilt, or judgement (Pisces planets opposing Pluto in Virgo). He has naturally experienced and witnessed great trauma and persecution based on him fulfilling his mission. He has come into this world to instigate change, and has necessarily attracted unspeakable resistance and oppression.

A couple more necessary notes: Mercury squares the nodes- forming a first quarter square to the south node in Scorpio in the 11th house. This correlates to a soul that has experienced excommunication of sorts, or perhaps has served the function of social revolution and yet has maintained a perpetual isolation from community on behalf of being so different. Thus he has learned to be a loner, to serve humanity and yet be entirely a part from it. The skipped step that lead to the life of Jesus implies that he had resisted doing the work he is here to do based on inertia and security with being his own group of one. Thus the key has been for him truly prophesize, teach,  shake things up- and to speak up (mercury) without becoming frustrated at the people, paranoid of what might happen, spiritually arrogant, or develop a psychology of futility (Mercury in Aquarius in the second house relative to the square to the sn in Scorpio in the 11th and Neptune, ruled by Pluto in Virgo in the 9th).

This enables him to develop the north node. It's essentially about simplification and letting go entirely. Symbolically and literally this is surrendering to the Source and communicating to the masses whatever would come out of his mouth. His words were meant to transcend (Pisces) any dogmas, ideas or beliefs. It confronted and dissolved any of his own dogmas, and melted the hearts of anyone who heard him.

The south node of Pluto is in Sag in the 1st house, Squaring Mars which is in a new phase with natal Pluto both retrograde, also squaring Venus in Pisces in the 3rd which opposes that Mars. This correlates to a soul that has been a loner in the past, seeking and knowing God within the context of natural law, and nature herself. He has received the answers to his own questions through direct communion. The challenges, as comes up in this chart has been to show up and serve, to act upon the direct truth that he merged with (Virgo Square, and the retrogradation in general). There has been resistance on the one hand, and also the need to let go of control on the other (accept that he can only do his work and to surrender any attachment to outcome). This is further emphasized by natal Mars squaring its own south node, which is conjunct the sn of Pluto, in Sag in the 12th house. Again a soul that has lived in direct communtion- here emphasizing that his actions have been as directed by higher intuition.

Venus in Pisces in the 3rd squaring the sn of Pluto, also being the ruler of the nn and opposing Mars to emphasizes the need for this soul to surrender to the complete intangibility and definition-less-ness of the Truth, to develop a value system based on forgiveness and surrender.

Opening his mind in such a way also heals and nurtures the trauma, ideals, visions, beliefs, traveling, and purposes etc that has literally dictated such a strong facet of the past. The natural challenge for this soul would have been to truly let go of his independence, and to actually use words, actually speak even though he wouldn't know what to say until he said it. God is his mouth. The healing with hands is also implied in this.

While we're on Venus, it would be meaningful to look at that south node as well, especially given the evolutionary significance of that planet on his chart to begin with. The sn of Venus is in Capricorn in the second house, like natal Mercury it is squaring the nodes as well as Neptune in Scorpio in the 11th. This emphasizes a soul who has developed a value system, found personal meaning in its life through living in a very private and internal way, in seclusion. The life of Jesus must have been very focused on resolving all of that second house stuff. This planet being Venus really emphasizes the psychology of inertia. Capricorn also implies that he has needed to be highly aware of the social reality he was living in on the basis of having a social purpose to fulfill.

All of the other planets seem to repeat many of the themes already spoken of.
The sn of Uranus in Sag in the 12th also squares natal Pluto as well as every planet in Pisces, except for Venus. This says a lot about what he was faced with. Note that the ruler of Sag is Jupiter in Pisces in a new phase conjunction with natal Uranus. To simplify the immensity of these aspects: The intent was to follow the intuition, to follow God and surrender what comes out of his mouth no matter how crazy it was.
This, as well as of course Mercury in Aquarius squaring the nodes, points to the rebellious nature of his words. This really explains why his words were both very Piscean (non linear, parables, abstract, universal and timeless, non specific yet all encompassing) as well as Aquarius (revolutionary, stirred things up).

God bless,
Ari Moshe

Rad's Quote:  So what I would like us to do is examine all of the South Planetary Nodes as they lead to the life of Jesus.

SN of Mars 15 Sagittarius
SN of Uranus 7 Sagittarius
SN of Pluto 24 Sagittarius
SN of Venus 29 Capricorn
SN of Jupiter 0.27 Capricorn
SN of Saturn 10 Capricorn
SN of Neptune 21 Capricorn
SN of Mercury 12 Aquarius 

The Planetary SNs of all of these planets are in 3 signs:  Sagittarius, Capricorn, and Aquarius, the end signs of the zodiac, and are situated in the 12th, 1st and 2nd houses in the Eastern hemisphere of the chart indicating a past-life focus on self-awareness, self-discovery, inner world, meditation, solitude, aloneness.  Most people on the planet today have the SNs of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus in those same 3 signs:  Sag/Cap/Aqu.  His evolutionary condition was 3rd stage Spiritual.  Briefly, the dynamics involved in the prior lives of the Soul of Jesus were:

SN of Pluto 24 Sagittarius 1st house:  Pluto's "past," that is, how Jesus had evolved before and leading up to his lifetime, correlated to an alignment with natural law and a desire to teach a new philosophy of life.  He came from a matriarchal reality, living in harmony, balance and equality within the totality of the manifested creation.  His system of belief was directly linked to the laws of the natural world.  Visions and intuitive teachings were communicated instinctively and spontaneously.  Past lives within tribes, cultures, or societies that were defined by natural laws.

SN of Mars 15 Sagittarius 12th house:  Correlates to how past desires emanating from the Soul of Jesus were brought to his egocentric consciousness and how they were acted upon.  Jesus was consciously aware of his connection to the Universe in a metaphysical/cosmological context, and of his spiritual mission to teach.  Past lives within tribes, cultures, or societies that were defined by natural laws.

SN of Uranus 7 Sagittarius 12th house:  Correlates to the desire to liberate from and transform past conditioning patterns, parental/societal conditioning, trauma, persecution, alienation, or last remnants of any limited beliefs/philosophies.  Repetitive messages about the future:  knew he had a mission to fulfil, to help liberate and free others from delusive thinking.  Past lives within tribes, cultures, or societies that were defined by natural laws.

SN of Saturn 10 Capricorn 1st house:  Correlates to lifetimes lived during the devilish distortions of the patriarchy and how this formed a foundation for active self-determination in his teachings about the true god.  Transition between the matriarchy and patriarchy.

SN of Venus 29 Capricorn 2nd house:  Past inner relationship to himself involved emotional control/repression of natural impulses.  Reliance on his heavenly "father" for material needs and security.  A strong capacity to "give, share and include."   

SN of Jupiter 0.27 Capricorn 1st house:  Beliefs about natural law and future visions were the basis for his structured/ordered teachings and interpretation of reality.  Expansion, growth, in a state of continual becoming.  Transition between the matriarchy and patriarchy.  Wise teacher/elder.

SN of Neptune 21 Capricorn 1st house:  Jesus' spiritual root goes back to the Age of Capricorn, just after the original matriarchy was established.  His reality was defined by natural laws, nature, natural impulses, respect for the earth, spiritual clarity"¦..undistorted Capricorn energies.  Spiritual healer, elder, authority.  Resonating with patriarchal times, Jesus witnessed the delusive/distorted impulse of self-interest, exclusion, man-made laws, dominating and disfiguring "˜natural' impulses. 

SN of Mercury 12 Aquarius 2nd house:   Correlates to past lifetimes when the original matriarchy was in place, during which time names and classifications were being given to the phenomenal nature of reality.  Fast processing of information, objective/logical thinking, fixed focus, original.

Question:  Where is (or who is) Jesus today?

Hi Linda and Ari,

Both of your analysis's of the Planetary Nodes of Jesus are good work. There are a couple of dynamics and issues that we can consider more. One is rooted in the fact that coming into the life as Jesus he had to relearn certain forms of humility as evidenced in the fact that a former student in another life, John the Baptist, became the vehicle for his own baptism. Can we see from the placement of his Planetary Nodes relative to his natal planets why this was a karmic/ evolutionary necessity ? What did the Soul of Jesus do in another life that required this ? And, within this, what can we see in his past that would have lead to the life of Jesus in the first place ? And why the necessity of being Crucified ? Another dynamic to examine more deeply would be the Soul psychology of Jesus over many, many lifetimes that lead to becoming Jesus ? What has that Soul psychology been ? And, because of that psychology, what types of specific prior lives do he live that all lead to the life of Jesus ? There have been other lives in which he was, relatively speaking, very known for his various capacities: not lives that were in seclusion at all. Can we see some of that in his birth chart, and the Planetary Nodes ?

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

QuoteOne is rooted in the fact that coming into the life as Jesus he had to relearn certain forms of humility as evidenced in the fact that a former student in another life, John the Baptist, became the vehicle for his own baptism. Can we see from the placement of his Planetary Nodes relative to his natal planets why this was a karmic/ evolutionary necessity ? What did the Soul of Jesus do in another life that required this ?

I don't feel clear about where to start with this. The key words you are bringing up: baptism (Pisces), humility (Virgo), student (Saturn?).

What I understand, is the core implication of Pluto itself, retrograde, in Virgo in the 9th as the ruler of the sn in Scorpio in 11th= the necessity to learn spiritual humility. This signature can express as being too controlling and overwhelmed how much work there is to do/getting its message across. Pluto is in opposition to ALL of that Pisces, and is in a gibbous phase opposition to the Moon Jupiter and Uranus- indicating the evolutionary requirement to learn humility.

Would you mind providing more guidance for tuning into this?

Hi Ari,

The prior life this refers to is actually in the Bible amazingly enough given the fact that the current Bible was put together in the 4th century where they picked and chose what to include, and what not too. This is in reference to Jesus commenting on that former life as Elisha and Elijah: student and teacher. In that life Jesus abused the power of miracles in various ways which then created this karmic/evolutionary need to relearn total humility: God as the doer. So see if you can see the prior life signature for this that lead to the life of Jesus.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

I'm not sure if your saying he was Elisha or Elijah. Either way, the details aren't important. I tried goggling, and as usual I got A LOT of information that I can not know one way or another of its accuracy. So I'm just going to stay focused on the chart in correlation with his planetary nodes and evolutionary state.

One thing I would be interested in hearing about is Linda's question about what happened after the life of Jesus. What is that soul up to? My inner feeling is that he did not reincarnate physically, but rather serves a collective purpose for the planet.

The south node of Uranus here correlates to how this soul has been on journey of deconditioning from all past factors that prevent from an absolute identification with Source. Retrograde in Sagittarius in the 12th house correlates to a past where he inspired the masses, spoke to the masses through direct communion with natural law, and yet has become over zealous and frustrated at the masses. The ruler of that is Jupiter conjunct Uranus balsamic, in Pisces in the 3rd. These signatures squaring one another, as well as natal Pluto retrograde in Virgo in the 9th. All This points to what this soul has been deconditioning from, and the specific karma that has lead to this life from the point of view of these signatures.

As a result of being frustrated, this soul has used it's natural powers, has "broken the ordinary rules of nature" (sn of Uranus in Sag, Jupiter conj Uranus) to perform miracles, or get a point across (in the 12th, squaring Pluto in the 9th= obsessed with it's own version of the truth, and was full of itself, also squaring the Pisces Jupiter Uranus= was frustrated and took advantage of its powers).

The fact of Uranus (the natal planet of the sn of Uranus) as well as Jupiter (the ruling planet of the sn of Uranus) being in the 3rd house in Pisces, correlates to how this soul has over compensated in the way that it did. The answer would have been possibly through the use of words, hands, water, communication of some sort- all of this involving perhaps facets of nature (Jupiter, Sag, 9th house) or water (Pisces, 12th).

All this points to a past whereby he was very well known on a public level (Pisces/ 12th) as well as Neptune on the Lunar sn.

So coming to the life of Jesus, why was it necessary for him to be baptized by John? Perhaps the reason would have been to teach Jesus that he can only do what is God's will, not his own will, necessitating a process of purification by water (Pisces, 12th) by a revolutionary (Uranus).

It's really hard for me to muster any more depth than I have. I'm going to continue to listen to your feedback and what other people write here. Thank you so much, it feels really good to be working with this chart.

Hi Rad,

I apologize for not responding sooner and thank you for your suggestions.  I think I need to get more familiar and practice on the basic archetypes so I'll be joining the new practice chart thread instead whenever I get the chance.  Thank you for letting me join in even though I may have jumped ahead of myself with this one. :) 

Thank you,
Julie

Hi Ari,
 
You are doing real good in  your analysis Ari. The prior life issue of abusing the power of being able to perform what would appear to be 'miracles' by most others was about the Natural Law of some others who were not meant to be helped because of the specific nature of their own karmic histories that necessitated whatever the life conditions were for themselves. The intense love and compassion that existed in the Soul of Jesus to help all is that which  created this transgression of that Natural Law. In so doing this in turn reflects that the Soul of Jesus, in those instances, was then making decisions to help those who were not meant to be helped through the agency of his own will instead of being in absolute alignment with the will of God/ess itself: at all times. As a result of this it thus required that Jesus relearn/ remember that absolute alignment with God's will at all times which manifested as 'humiliation' of the Soul of Jesus by being baptized by a former student in another life: John the Baptist. The symbol of baptism of course is one of purification.

As a result of this Jesus then in that life went on to perform any many of 'miracles' in order to teach about the natural power of God/ess itself. And, in so doing, taught about the natural law of faith, and the power of faith.

Many have wondered over the centuries since his life about he did in his early life before he was to become known as the prophet Jesus. There is a great cap in the Bible between roughly the age of 12 and 30 years of age. So where was he ? What were those years about ? Are we able to see in his birth chart any clues to what he did in those years ? Do the planetary nodes off any clues ?

God Bless, Rad

Hi Julie,

It will be great to have you as part of our practice charts. Welcome aboard.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad

QuoteYou are doing real good in  your analysis Ari. The prior life issue of abusing the power of being able to perform what would appear to be 'miracles' by most others was about the Natural Law of some others who were not meant to be helped because of the specific nature of their own karmic histories that necessitated whatever the life conditions were for themselves. The intense love and compassion that existed in the Soul of Jesus to help all is that which  created this transgression of that Natural Law. In so doing this in turn reflects that the Soul of Jesus, in those instances, was then making decisions to help those who were not meant to be helped through the agency of his own will instead of being in absolute alignment with the will of God/ess itself: at all times. As a result of this it thus required that Jesus relearn/ remember that absolute alignment with God's will at all times which manifested as 'humiliation' of the Soul of Jesus by being baptized by a former student in another life: John the Baptist. The symbol of baptism of course is one of purification. As a result of this Jesus then in that life went on to perform any many of 'miracles' in order to teach about the natural power of God/ess itself. And, in so doing, taught about the natural law of faith, and the power of faith. 

That is so beautiful. So, this seems to be exemplified by the same signatures I spoke of? Yet instead of interpreting this as frustration, at his level of evolution, it was linked to his own love and compassion for all beings. What story in the bible does this refer to, if at all?

One thing that is very prominant about Jesus are the miracles that he performed. And yet, it's so clear from the new testament and the gnostic texts that the words he used as well as the miracles he performed were always used in the appropriate moment. Not everyone who asked for a healing received one. Yet those who had true faith were always healed. Same with the words he used. He was such a great teacher.

QuoteMany have wondered over the centuries since his life about he did in his early life before he was to become known as the prophet Jesus. There is a great cap in the Bible between roughly the age of 12 and 30 years of age. So where was he ? What were those years about ? Are we able to see in his birth chart any clues to what he did in those years ? Do the planetary nodes off any clues ? 

I love the way you've been asking those socratic questions Rad! You too are a great teacher. Well its hard for me to look at that one with a clear mind bc I've heard so much about those years as it is... nevertheless I'm going to detach from that and give it a go.

To find the answer to such a question, I imagine we'd have to work backwards. Based on the evolutionary intention implied in the chart relative to the circumstances of his life and his ea state, what did he necessarily need to go through in order to fulfill his purpose?
First, the purpose: To exemplify the Truth as directed by God. This is specifically linked to the use of words and the performance of miracles. To heal and inspire with truth. In order to do that, and recognizing that purification was necessary first, we'd look into the chart to understand what the developmental process would have been.

The sn is in Scorpio in the 11th, and its ruler Pluto in the 9th with respect to the square to the planetary nodes in Sag clearly implies having been a part of various communities within which spiritual teaching and training took place. I'm focusing on the sn because the sn implies priorlife egocentric structure, thus I imagine this would be something that would be relived to some degree in order to create the space for his dharma to unfold. So this would point to travel, long periods of time alone in communion with Truth and other necessary preparations that have to do with burning all remaining separating desires.

I suppose geodetics would be appropriate here as well- especially given the strong emphasis on travel. I'm not familiar yet with how to read that map. Does Leo=Egypt through Geodetics, or is that just an association for the astrological the ages? I would look into the Geodetic equivalent for Leo, Virgo, Scorpio, and Pisces. Given the connection to the Sag sn's, perhaps Sagittarius too...

God Bless,
Ari Moshe

Hi Rad,
I'm working on answering your further questions about
the chart of Jesus, and will submit my work very soon.
Thanks, Linda

Hi Ari,

"That is so beautiful. So, this seems to be exemplified by the same signatures I spoke of? Yet instead of interpreting this as frustration, at his level of evolution, it was linked to his own love and compassion for all beings. What story in the bible does this refer to, if at all?"

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Yes, it is within the signatures you spoke of and, specifically, his Neptune in Scorpio on the S.Node in the 11th which of course is ruled by his Pluto/Mars conjunction in Virgo in the 9th which are in opposition to his Pisces planets in the 3rd. The various S.Nodes in the 12th as well. With his Mercury in Aquarius in the 2nd squaring his Nodes and Neptune this symbolizes his Soul need to recover a 'skipped step' relative to transgressing the Natural Law that not all Souls are meant to be healed due to their own karmic necessities: NATURAL LIMITS. Those natural limits are symbolized by the S.Node with Neptune in Scorpio wherein the Natural Law behind that is the 9th House Pluto/Mars, the various S.Nodes he has in Sagittarius.

The demonstration of his intense love and compassion for all was reflected in the very nature of his teachings as a whole, and, of course, the act of allowing himself to be Crucified for the benefit of all humans. And even as he was dying on the Cross, in intense pain, this is again reflected in his word: "Father forgive them for they know not what they do".

Crucifixion is one of the most horrible ways to be killed because the death of the form occurs through a progressive suffocation within the lungs. The lungs in EA are the 11th House, Aquarius, and Uranus. His birth chart says it all.

************************************* 

One thing that is very prominant about Jesus are the miracles that he performed. And yet, it's so clear from the new testament and the gnostic texts that the words he used as well as the miracles he performed were always used in the appropriate moment. Not everyone who asked for a healing received one. Yet those who had true faith were always healed. Same with the words he used. He was such a great teacher.

********************************************

Yes, and this of course demonstrates that he indeed learned the lessons the he needed to learn.

***********************************************

QuoteMany have wondered over the centuries since his life about he did in his early life before he was to become known as the prophet Jesus. There is a great cap in the Bible between roughly the age of 12 and 30 years of age. So where was he ? What were those years about ? Are we able to see in his birth chart any clues to what he did in those years ? Do the planetary nodes off any clues ? 

I love the way you've been asking those socratic questions Rad! You too are a great teacher. Well its hard for me to look at that one with a clear mind bc I've heard so much about those years as it is... nevertheless I'm going to detach from that and give it a go.

To find the answer to such a question, I imagine we'd have to work backwards. Based on the evolutionary intention implied in the chart relative to the circumstances of his life and his ea state, what did he necessarily need to go through in order to fulfill his purpose?
First, the purpose: To exemplify the Truth as directed by God. This is specifically linked to the use of words and the performance of miracles. To heal and inspire with truth. In order to do that, and recognizing that purification was necessary first, we'd look into the chart to understand what the developmental process would have been.

The sn is in Scorpio in the 11th, and its ruler Pluto in the 9th with respect to the square to the planetary nodes in Sag clearly implies having been a part of various communities within which spiritual teaching and training took place. I'm focusing on the sn because the sn implies priorlife egocentric structure, thus I imagine this would be something that would be relived to some degree in order to create the space for his dharma to unfold. So this would point to travel, long periods of time alone in communion with Truth and other necessary preparations that have to do with burning all remaining separating desires.

I suppose geodetic would be appropriate here as well- especially given the strong emphasis on travel. I'm not familiar yet with how to read that map. Does Leo=Egypt through Geodetics, or is that just an association for the astrological the ages? I would look into the Geodetic equivalent for Leo, Virgo, Scorpio, and Pisces. Given the connection to the Sag sn's, perhaps Sagittarius too...

***********************************************

Geodetics is indeed the way to proceed with this kind of question. And, of course, if there exists in actual historical evidence that has actual recorded records. And, in fact, there is such recorded evidence of Jesus being in India for some time which also means in the context of such travel being exposed to different peoples in different lands with their own cosmological understandings of life itself. Thus, being exposed to great diversity. This is reinforced by the very nature of his teachings wherein the essence of those teachings are Eastern in nature, not Western: Jewish. Thus, he taught about when 'one's eye is single one's whole body is full of light'. Or 'the kingdom of God is within you'. And so on. These teachings come from the East, and specifically India. India was an ancient homeland for the Soul of Jesus as was Tibet, Kashmir, Nepal, and Burma.

Through Geodetics India and the surrounding areas are within the Gemini zone. So we can see by looking at his birth chart all those Pisces planets in the natural 3rd house: Gemini. And all those planets are of course ruled by his Neptune in Scorpio on his S.Node. This then correlates to his previous lifetimes wherein his evolution leading to the liberation of his Soul took place which is reflected in his own words: "I am the Son of God". This Neptune and South Node are then ruled by his Pluto with his Mars in the 9th in opposition to all those Pisces planets in the 3rd: the symbols for the traveling back to an ancient homeland in order to remember the nature of his own Soul, and to expose itself again to the teachings that come from those lands. Within this to recover the 'skipped steps' that are symbolized by his Mercury in Aquarius squaring his Nodes. Mercury is the ruler of his Mars and Pluto. And that goes back to where we started in terms of the prior transgression of the Natural Law of miracles as that Mercury in also squaring his Nodes and Neptune.

He was destined to come back to Judea in order to fulfill his mission and destiny. Via geodetics this is symbolized by his N.Node in Taurus which in fact correlates to Judea in general, and Jerusalem specifically.   

******************************************


God Bless, Rad

Quote from: Rad on Feb 08, 2011, 03:33 PMThere are a couple of dynamics and issues that we can consider more. One is rooted in the fact that coming into the life as Jesus he had to relearn certain forms of humility as evidenced in the fact that a former student in another life, John the Baptist, became the vehicle for his own baptism. Can we see from the placement of his Planetary Nodes relative to his natal planets why this was a karmic/ evolutionary necessity ? What did the Soul of Jesus do in another life that required this ? And, within this, what can we see in his past that would have lead to the life of Jesus in the first place ? And why the necessity of being Crucified ? Another dynamic to examine more deeply would be the Soul psychology of Jesus over many, many lifetimes that lead to becoming Jesus ? What has that Soul psychology been ? And, because of that psychology, what types of specific prior lives do he live that all lead to the life of Jesus ? There have been other lives in which he was, relatively speaking, very known for his various capacities: not lives that were in seclusion at all. Can we see some of that in his birth chart, and the Planetary Nodes ?

Hi Rad,

I have attempted to answer your first question regarding Jesus having to re-learn certain forms of humility:

Pluto/Mars/Virgo describes the desire to re-learn humility.  Mercury rules Pluto and Mars, and naturally rules the 3rd house.  Pluto/Mars opposite the 3rd house planets showed the requirement for co-operation with the higher will of God.  Past knowledge (Pluto/9th) was brought down to earth (3rd) and communicated.  

Uranus/Pisces/3rd rules the 3rd house, giving a strong revolutionary flavour to his teachings.  The sign Gemini (natural ruler of the 3rd house) in the 6th contains the planetary NNs of Uranus and Jupiter and correlates to not only Jesus' own expression of humility and self-sacrifice, but also him teaching these qualities to others.  The 6th house is ruled by Venus and correlates to the "extremes" that were employed to re-learn the lesson of further humility.  

SNs of Uranus and Mars Sag/12th first-quarter square to natal Pluto.  Mars symbolizes personal will, and Uranus resistance.  This square describes wanting to be turned loose but being restrained in order to learn patience and develop humility.  Similarly, the SN of Uranus squares natal Uranus, and the SN of Pluto squares Saturn/Venus.  In turn, Saturn rules the 2nd, and Venus rules the 6th and the NN/Taurus/5th.    

The personal will of Jesus can also be described by the Planetary SNs of Pluto, Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune in the 1st house, with the NNs of these planets residing in the Western hemisphere of the chart (6th/7th) signifying taking his teachings out to the social sphere (egoconcentric orientation) and having to learn further humility.  Another indicator of extremes is 7 Pluto oppositions to his 3rd house planets, as well as the emphasis on all the planetary SNs in the East in opposition to the NNs of the outer planets in the West.

"Skipped steps" -  Mercury square the Nodes. Mercury is ruled by Uranus/Pisces/3rd very closely conjunct Jupiter/Pisces/3rd.  This aspect describes having to re-learn certain aspects of the Natural Truth for the purpose of study/teaching, thus liberating and transforming (Uranus) obsolete knowledge or "teaching methods" (Jupiter) so as to align more fully (evolution) with higher Natural Law.  

The Neptune balsamic conjunction to SN/Scorpio implies limitation from the past.  This is an aspect of re-living prior life dynamics due to prior choices that were made (ie, using his own will to perform miracles out of love, resulting in skipped steps).  The "fixed" houses and signs of the t-square correlate to resistance or an old karmic pattern which prevented Jesus' evolution.  

The 3rd house planets, constant movement, oppose Pluto/Mars 9th, long-distance travel to the East, in order to recover the teachings/knowledge that lead to his destiny of sacrifice on the cross.  The recovery of the "skipped steps" of Mercury required adjustment and surrender (Neptune, resolution SN) to God's will, and this lead to the traumatic events in his life.  Dying on the cross correlated to giving up his will to the higher Will of God, and taught the evolutionary lesson of further humility.  

The NN/Taurus allowed a total evolutionary change so that Jesus could continue in his evolution.  This links to the planetary NN of Pluto found in Gemini 7th, so overall evolution was effected through expansion of intellectual structures, sharing God's teachings with others, and fully entering into a relationship with God through the demonstration of complete and humble surrender to God's Will.

Thank you so much Rad for your guidance.

Hi Linda,

Good job Linda. They only exception I would take is to this: "Mars symbolizes personal will, and Uranus resistance." Uranus does not correlate to resistance. Resistance correlates to Scorpio, the 8th House, and Pluto. So in the case Jeses with his S.Node with Neptune in Scorpio in the 11th House his resistance to the Natural Laws concerning healing in general, and miracles therein specifically, manifested as rebellion of those Natural Laws because his intense desire to help all, no matter what.

Other than that, good job.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Ari and Linda,

Wondering if you both would like to explore the issues of the mother of Jesus, Mary, and, related to that, issues linked to Mary Magdalena as one of his disciples ? Some of the issues we could explore from the point of view of his birth chart, and the planetary nodes, would be the controversy about his mother having a 'immaculate conception', her own origins, whether Jesus had any siblings through his mother, his mother's own history, and how all of this is then linked to Mary Magdalena. So let me know.

God Bless, Rad

I'd be very interested in that. I also have another question or two I want to explore from the last few posts as well...
Thank you.

Rad, I'll ask this here as to not jump too far ahead in the Geodetic thread.

QuoteThrough Geodetics India and the surrounding areas are within the Gemini zone. So we can see by looking at his birth chart all those Pisces planets in the natural 3rd house: Gemini.

Even though Pisces is on the third house cusp, which correlates to its own geodetic region, why are you still associating the third house with the geodetic equivalent of Gemini?
Thank you,
Ari Moshe

Yes, thank you so much Rad, I am interested in exploring
the issues of Jesus' mother Mary, and Mary Magdalena. 

Hi Ari,

Because the houses are the foundation of all birth charts which are then over laid or conditioned by the specific signs that can be on them. And, after that of course, the specific planets. The total understanding of geodetic equivalents is what I am proposing to do in a new thread on that topic.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Linda and Ari,

Ok, let's start with one of the issues first: the possibility of an immaculate conception by his mother Mary. At first, let's see if he has a signature in his chart that would so symbolize such a phenomena. So let's have a go at it.

God Bless, Rad

Quote from: Rad on Feb 15, 2011, 02:08 PMOk, let's start with one of the issues first: the possibility of an immaculate conception by his mother Mary. At first, let's see if he has a signature in his chart that would so symbolize such a phenomena. So let's have a go at it.

JWG Quote:   The Virgo/Pisces archetype as manifest within Natural Law"¦"¦has everything to do with UNITING with the totality of NATURE, being one WITHIN IT, thus serving and sustaining IT'S integrity BECAUSE OF BEING IN BALANCE, AND AT ONE, WITH IT"¦"¦


Evolutionary past:  The Planetary South Nodes of Pluto, Mars and Uranus in Sagittarius (Natural Law), and Pluto/Virgo/9th correlate to living in harmony with Nature, virgin nature.  Neptune balsamic conjunction to the South Node indicates spiritualization of past egocentric structures.
   
Humility of service:  The Virgo/Pisces archetype in the chart of Jesus.  Every planet and both Nodes are linked to Pluto/Virgo.  

Immaculate conception:  The 12th house cusp (Source) is ruled by Pluto/Virgo.  Neptune is the Final Dispositor of the chart.  Neptune symbolizes the totality of life, and transcending of the personal will.  Mary's reply to Angel Gabriel:  


correlates to complete surrender and submission to God's will.  

Mary, mother of Jesus:  The 4th house cusp (mother) and 5th house cusp (child-bearing) are ruled by Mars/Virgo (masculine/feminine principles) in the 9th house of Natural Law.  The 8th house cusp, Cancer (mother), is ruled by Moon/Pisces, describes Jesus' mother Mary merging with the Source of Creation.  Pluto/Virgo is opposite the Moon in Pisces.  The Moon in Pisces describes how Holy Mary is "full of grace," "free of sin" and innocent.  Ruler of the Moon is Pluto/Virgo.

Virgo:  The Virgin in the Virgo glyph has a lamp in one hand, as a sign of the spiritual light, the light in darkness, in the other an ear of corn, representing her son as the spiritual food of mankind.

Hi Linda,

Thanks for your analysis. I want to wait before I comment to much before Ari has a chance to share his analysis as well. One thing I would like to say is that it is very, very important to understand the Soul of Jesus, it's nature, in order to understand how and why Mary came to be his mother. The very nature of the Soul of Jesus was to teach about the underlying unity and equality of all humans: men and women, rich and poor, sick or not sick, and so on. His Soul, as all of ours have been, was exposed to the tremendous distortions to this Natural Law due to the invented cosmologies by MEN that made them superior to women. And all the 'religious' justifications that then followed those distorted cosmologies that then 'justified' all the laws, rights and wrongs, cultural taboos, and so on. Not just to women but to any human who was so subjected to these distortions. For example, India itself where he spent a period of time and was thus exposed to their 'caste' system. And, of course, the very nature of his travels through so many lands in which he was exposed to this distortions in one form or another which also of course was manifest in Judea itself.

The history of his Soul through time, beyond the specific life of Jesus, was not only to be exposed to these distortions, perversions, to Natural Laws but also to teach against them. There were certain lives as well, long ago, in which he got caught up in these distortions and actually lived them out in his own way which only contributed to his own Soul anger against himself. It is that very anger at himself that progressively, through many lives, lead to the life of Jesus in which he did all that he could to teach about the Natural Laws, the core equality and unity of all humans.

It is important to understand this in order to understand not only why he was born through his mother Mary, but to also understand the role of Mary Magdalena as well. There is a specific link, a common thread, between each of these Mary's. When this is understood then we will be able to understand the possibility of the immaculate conception, and why. One of the clues to this common thread is seen in his birth chart with his S.Nodes of Venus, Saturn, Neptune and Vesta are in Capricorn and in his 2nd/1st Houses . And those are naturally ruled by his Saturn in Pisces in his 3rd which is conjunct all of his Pisces planets including his Moon, Venus, and Uranus. His natal Vesta is conjunct and within all his Pisces planets as well.  And those are of course opposed by his Pluto/Mars. And, in the end, all of this comes down too, as you pointed out, his natal Neptune IN SCORPIO, with his S. Node in the 11th House.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

QuoteOk, let's start with one of the issues first: the possibility of an immaculate conception by his mother Mary. At first, let's see if he has a signature in his chart that would so symbolize such a phenomena. So let's have a go at it.

I'm starting this by looking at Moon, Cancer and 4th house. He has Cancer on the 8th. At his evolutionary state, home IS a universal concept, it is linked with God. The separating desires linked with identification with a separate ego have already been exhausted. The ruler of that Cancer is his Moon in Pisces which through the stellium is in opposition to the ruler of his 4th house, Mars in Virgo. By rulership, everything does in fact lead back to Pisces in the 3rd, which is of course ruled by Neptune leading to the sn in Scorpio in the 11th house.

The 11th house, ruled by Venus, points leads back to Pisces in the 3rd. There are a few observations here: His own mother has possibly been a sibling in the past- and they have been a part of the same community. It also corresponds to the nature of the Mother herself as serving a role to unify that which is separate, to dissolve the effects of patriarchal conditioning.

When I think of immaculate conception, I link Moon and Sun with Neptune. This is of course very clear in his chart. The question "who is the father, the one planting the seed" is something that I feel is necessary to look at here. How do we look at that in a chart in general?

The impregnator, the one planting the seed- intuitively, I think this may be Mars/Pluto. The very nature of those archetypes symbolize the natural instinct within all souls to get the hell away from God, and the deep craving for God.

All of those dynamics are exemplified through sexuality- the very nature of the masculine and feminine which correlates to the very nature of duality. So long as there is an object of craving or an object of aversion there exists duality. The duality of male and female can only be united via the exhaustion of alll desires which creates that separation in the first place.

For a soul who has exhausted all desires, and is living full God consciousness, or at least almost full- there is absolutely no impulse to merge through any physical form. She is united with nature herself. Thus, like the earth which receives all of its nourishment through Grace, and takes nothing that is not given, perhaps Mary was the recipient of the seed of God. Astrologically, if this is a Mars/Pluto thing, then we see how that is naturally linked in with the Pisces/Virgo axis. I absolutely love that quote from JWG that Linda quoted:

QuoteThe Virgo/Pisces archetype as manifest within Natural Law"¦"¦has everything to do with UNITING with the totality of NATURE, being one WITHIN IT, thus serving and sustaining IT'S integrity BECAUSE OF BEING IN BALANCE, AND AT ONE, WITH IT"¦

Taking into account the strong karmic linkage between Capricorn and Pisces would be important. Many of the Pisces planets, including Neptune itself, has its south node in Capricorn in the 1st and second. What does this say that is relevant to this exploration? Beyond the level of implying a longer, independence, and a soul that has held responsibility for the masses- it also points to the archetypal notion of "authority"; the rules that all souls must follow according to their own karmic requirements. Capricorn symbolizes the "father in heaven" the sole spiritual authority, which is the natural consequences and facets of natural law. The ruler of Capricorn, Saturn is conjunct the Moon in Pisces. The Capricorn Cancer interface here through the sn of the Pisces, Neptune, the ruler of all that Capricorn being in Pisces and conjunct the Moon implies something that I'm not seeing right now! I'm going to give my head a rest and come back to this later and see what feedback you offer.
God bless,
am

Hi Linda and Ari,

First I want to commend you both for making the EA effort  that you have to try to understand this potential phenomena of the immaculate conception relative to the mother of Jesus. The various symbols that you both used to arrive at your analysis all reflected this possibility.

I think we would all agree that the phenomena of a immaculate conception would be considered to be a pretty unusual phenomena. Biologically speaking it is indeed possible for a conception to happen in this way as various biological scientists have proved. In essence it comes down to 'a cellular' reproduction wherein a cell can reproduce itself from within itself. There are various forms of life that do indeed reproduce themselves in this way. As an aside, many years ago there was a book written by some evolutionary biologists from England called 'The Redundant Male' in which these biologists presented their work about this way of reproduction and demonstrated that women still have this genetic capacity.

Looking at the birth chart of Jesus the signature certainly exists for this way of being conceived to have occurred. When Mary was 'visited' by the Light, the Light of God, that created the conception of the Soul of Jesus it was this Light infusing her own Soul that simultaneously triggered the physiological processes within her that created a fetus in which the Soul of Jesus thus inhabited. The Soul of Jesus was within the Light that infused Mary's soul.

Understood in this way the astrological signature in the chart of Jesus becomes straight forwards. It starts of course with his S.Node conjunct Neptune in his 11th House which is square to his Mercury in Aquarius which, in turn, is square his N.Node in Taurus in the 5th House. Here we can certainly see the symbols for an 'unusual' conception leading the the birth of the Soul of Jesus. In these symbols we can see the infusion of the Light of God triggering a physiological process leading to the immaculate conception within Mary that lead to the birth of the Soul of Jesus. This is reinforced by the ruler of his N.Node in Taurus in the 5th: his Venus is Pisces which is conjunct his Saturn, Vesta, Sun, and Moon. The symbols of a divine Mother and Father now become clear. And, of course, all those Pisces planets come back to his S.Node conjunct Neptune in Scorpio in the 11th. We can even see in these symbols the threat the to the life of baby Jesus that required Mary and Joseph to hide him in order for his survival to happen: the ruler of the Neptune, S.Node being Pluto with Mars in Virgo in the 9th in opposition to all those Pisces planets. Thus, 'traveling' to a safe place in order for baby Jesus to survive: in a manger surrounded by animals. The need to travel in order to protect baby Jesus, his survival, is also symbolized by his Mercury in his 2nd House, ruled by the 3rd House Uranus in opposition to his Pluto. Additionally, his S.Node of Venus and Vesta is also in his 2nd House which also refers back to his natal Saturn in Pisces conjunct the rest of his Pisces planets.

The next issue is of course why Mary ? Why this Soul ? And what is the connection, the common thread, to Mary of Magdalena ? To answer these questions it is essential to understand actual his/her story versus the invented mythologies of each. So let's try to see this again through the chart of Jesus himself, and his own actual histories.

God Bless, Rad



 

Hi Rad,
One point of clarification- is conception a 5th house/Sun association or a 4th house/Moon? Thank you

Hi Ari,

Conception is Scorpio, the 8th House, and, of course, Pluto. Taurus, the 2nd House, and the inner side of Venus all correlate to the procreation instinct where that instinct is a function of the survival of the species. The 8th House, Pluto, and Scorpio correlate to the sexual union of two Souls that thus allows for a conception of another Soul to take place. The result of this conception will be the birth of a child: the natural squares to the 5th House, Leo, and the Sun from the 2nd, Taurus, and the inner side of Venus.

God Bless, Rad

Quote from: Rad on Feb 17, 2011, 10:44 AMThe next issue is of course why Mary ? Why this Soul ? And what is the connection, the common thread, to Mary of Magdalena ? To answer these questions it is essential to understand actual his/her story versus the invented mythologies of each. So let's try to see this again through the chart of Jesus himself, and his own actual histories.

Hi Rad,

Not sure how to answer these questions, but I've put in the effort to try.  

Jesus' SN of Saturn Cap 1st sextiles Moon, Sun and Vesta Pisces 3rd - and sextiles NN Taurus 5th.  This could describe a karmic contract between Jesus, his mother Mary and Mary Magdelena.  These are all disposited by Neptune Scorpio 11th conjunct the SN.  It was destined in their 'group' that Mary bring birth to Jesus (Taurus 5th) and for Magdelena to be his companion (Vesta Pisces 3rd).

Moon = Mary
Sun = Jesus
Vesta = Magdelena
(all tightly conjunct, a stellium, in Pisces 3rd)

SN of Neptune = Source energy
SN of Venus (ruler of Taurus 5th) = mother Mary
SN of Vesta = Mary Magdelena
(all form a stellium in Cap 1st & 2nd)

All of the planets in Jesus' chart are "feminine" (except for Mercury) showing the love, devotion and caring the three shared for one another.

The "water" trinity in Jesus' chart is made up of the NN of Neptune in Cancer 7th - SN Neptune Scorpio - and the Pisces planets in the 3rd.

Mary Magdelena was a close companion to Jesus, and was said to be his favourite disciple.  Their teacher/disciple relationship is signified by Vesta (divine servant) in the 3rd house, Virgo (disciple, service), 9th house (Natural Law, travel), and the NN of Jupiter, Uranus and Vesta 6th (disciple).

Vesta, the Great Mother Goddess, personified by the Moon, was represented by the sacred flame symbolizing the kundalini fire and secret powers of sexual transmutation.  Vesta correlates to Virgo (the virgin) and Scorpio (sex and passion), and the combination is associated with sex on a visceral and subconscious level as a ritualistic act of service.

Vesta Pisces 3rd (symbolizing Magdelena) squares the NN of Vesta Gemini 6th could account for health problems such as mental instability/illness (?) which were healed and purified by Jesus.  On the other hand, Vesta (hearth) is associated with the Latin word for "focus" - to concentrate on a specific task or goal, tying in with the Virgo work ethic and meticulous approach to problem-solving.  The NNs of Uranus, Jupiter, Vesta and Pluto in Gemini 6th & 7th, all ruled by Mercury in Aquarius, show the "unusual" relationship between them.  

Mercury Aquarius 2nd ruling the 7th house cusp correlates to self-reliance in his relationships, while the Moon Pisces 3rd ruling his 8th house cusp correlates to intimate relationships (if any).

While Mary Magdelena had 'problems,' his mother Mary was portrayed as 'free of sin.'  This could correlate to the Virgo/Pisces polarity.  

Mary = Pisces (pure and innocent)
Magdelena = Virgo, Vesta and NN of Vesta Gemini 6th (in need of purification)

Mother Mary and Jesus are symbolized by Moon conjunct Sun Pisces 3rd.  She and Jesus were united as One, in the Spiritual state, their lives were completely surrendered to the will of God.

The NN of Neptune Cancer 7th and the NN of Saturn Cancer 7th shows Jesus' destiny, the 'extremes' suffered on the cross, and the main relationships in his life with the two Mary's.  

The NN of Chiron sits in Libra in the 10th house, conjunct the MC, symbolizing "healing" for humanity through suffering the extremes on the cross, and his message of equality for everyone reaching the whole world.  

The NN of Chiron 10th (wound) squares the NN of Saturn 7th, and this shows the sacrifice Jesus made so that others could step over into the higher consciousness of the outer planets to heal their relationship with God.  He showed the 'way' to heal the imbalances and distortions of the patriarchy.

The midpoint of the NN of Chiron and the NN of Saturn opposes Mercury Aquarius 2nd (the "skipped steps").  This midpoint in the 8th (death and resurrection) forms a grand cross with Mercury and the Nodes, and reminded me of the "cross" that Jesus died upon.  Cancer on the 8th house cusp denotes conception, the womb, tomb, and resurrection.

Jesus' SN of Jupiter and SN of Pluto are conjunct the Galactic Centre 28 Sag.  

I hope some of this accurate.

Thanks Rad!

Hi Linda,

Thanks for making the effort you have. Let's wait for Ari to share his analysis before I share my own.

God Bless, Rad

Rad,

You've reached 1,000 posts today!
And the messageboard is almost 2 years old.
Thank you so much for everything.

Love and Blessings,
Linda

Hi Rad and Linda, I'm quite busy right now. I'll be creating the time to work on this tomorrow or the next day.

Hi Rad,

QuoteThe next issue is of course why Mary ? Why this Soul ? And what is the connection, the common thread, to Mary of Magdalena ? To answer these questions it is essential to understand actual his/her story versus the invented mythologies of each. So let's try to see this again through the chart of Jesus himself, and his own actual histories.

From what I've gathered so far, I have found two general accounts as to who Mary of Magdalena was.
The new testament version presents her as someone who was cleansed by Jesus, and is regarded just as the "disciple to the disciples". However the gnostic gospels clearly present the opposite imagine. Quote from the gospel of Mary:

QuoteAfter Mary had said these things, she was silent, since it was up to this point that the Savior had spoken to her.
     Andrew responded, addressing the brothers and sisters, "Say what you will about the things she has said, but I do not believe that the S[a]vior said these things, f[or] indeed these teachings are strange ideas."
     Peter responded, bringing up similar concerns. He questioned them about the Savior: "Did he, then, speak with a woman in private without our knowing about it? Are we to turn around and listen to her? Did he choose her over us?" 

This to me seems to point to a deep intimacy, trust and love between Jesus and Mary Magdala. The nature of this relationship, having been a threat to the patriarchal conditioning. I think the point here is that the story of Jesus and Mary has been highly misconstrued through the filter of the patriarchy.

This opens up the question, what was the role of the divine feminine in this story? Who was Mary Magdala?

As I have learned here, Vesta correlates to sexual initiation rites, the way that was used by mothers to initiate their own children during the time of the matriarchy. It also correlates to the distortion that has occurred over time linked to sacred sexual initiation.

Vesta is conjunct the whole stellium in Pisces in the 3rd, which includes Venus and Saturn. The north node of Vesta in Gemini in the 6th is squaring that natal stellium in the 3rd. It's hard for me to interpret this accurately- I feel this has to do with words being misconstrued as a result of a misunderstanding of the use of sexuality/the role of the feminine linked to patriarchal jealousy (Vesta). This may be reflected in the distorted gospels (words) that have not pictured the true story, especially when it came to the role of the divine feminine.

I can see from this the possibility that perhaps Mary served the role to help Jesus stay connected to Mother Earth - the natural square between the 6th and 3rd house correlates to keeping focused on the work that one has to do, in this context literally pointing to the oneness between spirit and flesh.

I don't quite know how to approach your question "why Mary?" when asking about Jesus's mother.
Thank you.
Ari Moshe

Hi Linda and Ari,

Thank you both for making the effort that you both have over this questions and issues. They can be difficult to address only because the actual history of not only Jesus, but both Mary's, has been so horribly distorted through time relative to various agendas by others that necessitated those distortions. This included what to put in the Bible in the 4th Century, and what not. Other disciples had their own 'gospels' other than what were 'allowed' in the current Bible when it was first put together. And we must also remember that even all those gospels were not written by the disciples themselves. They were written by others who were exposed to the various disciples in which whatever it is that they had to say was passed down to others primarily by word of mouth at first, and then, finally recorded as written words. So, obviously, that in and of itself can create a 'reality' that is not necessarily the actual reality of the words that were spoken by the disciples when they spoke them. One of those gospels was the gospel of Phillip. Within that gospel stands the actual truth of the relationship of Jesus to Mary Magdalena.

To understand both Mary's it is important, again, to understand the nature of Jesus, his Soul, and his own evolutionary/ karmic background which we have discussed some in this thread. A deep, core, part of his Soul reality is one of desiring to teach Natural Law, and to act upon it. In essence, the natural principles of Creation as manifested on the Earth. Of course this did collide with all others whose 'religions' , and the moralities that were extensions of them, were in violation of those natural principles. A simple of example of this was his absolute rage at the 'money changers' at the temple in Jerusalem. But deeper than this was his rage at false religions that were used as justifications to treat men as superior to women first and foremost. Within that the downtrodden, the persecuted, anyone who was considered odd or strange and treated as they were because of this, the sick and all those who would be taken advantage of by others who had distorted religious or philosophical realities within them.

His desire, and one of his deepest 'missions', was to demonstrate the core equality of all humans, and that those who were being treated and judged badly by peoples who had false religions are just as 'holy' as those who already considered themselves holy. Remember here the story of the 'tax collector' who all despised. Even that tax collector became one of his disciples. And of course the story of stoning an adulterer and prostitute his words to those who would throw the stones was something like 'for those of you who have not sinned, throw the first stone'. Of course they could not.

The common thread of both Mary's is the thread of prostitution. Relative to his mother Mary this is why he also had siblings: half brothers and sisters. She was rescued or saved by what was to become her husband: Joseph. In essence he took her in, yet did not want to have intimate sexual relations with her. Mary's Soul nature was one of intense faith, and wanting to live for, and do, God's work. Long ago in her own history she was one of the original 'sacred prostitutes' that were created by men around 5,500 BC. That role was created by men as they progressively suppressed the natural role of Vesta in the natural times, called the matriarchy now, that proceeded the progressive patriarchal takeover of those natural times. This is why the sacred prostitute of those times was thought of as being able to 'absolve' men of their sins: all that they had done wrong as a consequence of being in violation of the Natural Laws, the natural principles of Creation. One of half brothers of Jesus was a Soul named Steven. And it is this Steven who tried to start the first 'church' that taught the teachings of Jesus himself. And, of course, he was destroyed as Jesus had been destroyed.

And, of course, Jesus had his own prior life connections to the Soul of this Mary. It is enough to know that without going into much more detail. The point is that it all lead to the moment that was to be called the 'immaculate conception'. That a 'prostitute', a former one, could be used by God in this way so as to teach humans, to remind them, of Natural Laws, of natural principles. To make them aware of the distortions of their own 'religious' doctrines, and the wrong judgments of humans because of. Mary's core desire, again, was to dedicate herself to God, and to do God's work. And it was her faith in that natural God that allowed her to be 'visited' in the way that she was that allowed for physiological process to occur called the immaculate conception.

Mary Magdalena was a Soul that Jesus also had deep prior life connections too, and those included some intimate bonding's in certain lives. She was also linked to the original 'sacred prostitutes' in the time that Mary the mother of Jesus was also part of. They had a very intense bond in the life they shared in this way. When she first approached Jesus in the life of Jesus he immediately remembered, of course, his prior life linkages to her just as he did with John the Baptist. And it was her own deep desire to to know God, and to do God's work, her FAITH in God, that then set in motion her relationship with Jesus. This was all part of his 'mission' and teachings for those in Judea, and beyond, that created the scenarios with both his mother Jesus, and Mary Magdalena.

The relationship Jesus had with Mary Magdalena was also about him recovering some of his own 'skipped steps' as symbolized by his Mercury squaring his Lunar Nodes. And that Mercury is also the ruler of his 7th House. This means that relative to his S.Nodes of Venus, Vesta, and the S.Node of Mercury that he has also accepted in certain recent lives leading to the life of Jesus the distorted patriarchal doctrines of required 'celibacy' in order to know God. His Soul had to rebel against that false doctrine in order to recover his skipped steps in this way. With his natal Juno conjunct his natal Mercury he thus remembered the natural teaching of natural sexuality that others have termed tantra. This was also done, again, in order to confront the 'moralities', the rights and wrongs, of the false religious teachings of the culture of his birth, and beyond. And we must remember a simple historical fact: in Judea no man was allowed to teach or lecture in the synagogues unless he was married. Jesus did so teach and lecture in these synagogues.

Mary was indeed his disciple as well. She served in many ways as an intermediary between him and the other disciples. The reason is that Jesus taught through metaphor, parables, and analogies. She was able to help the disciples understand the meaning of his words. This was one of her primary roles. And, of course, she was chosen to be present with the mother of Jesus, Mary, upon the Resurrection. This was deliberate for the reasons that must be clear now. She ended up living a very long life in which, after Jesus was killed, she journeyed with the disciple John ending up a small island called Patos in what is now called Turkey.    

So this is the common thread of both of the Mary's, and the fact of Jesus having half brothers and sisters. It is also important to know, or understand, that because of Jesus teaching that men and women are equal, and demonstrating this in many ways including both Mary's, that for the first two centuries both men and women taught her teachings equally. By the time the Bible was being assembled this teaching of his was then progressively repressed and utterly distorted to where only men could be priests.

God Bless, Rad

Thanks for that great explanation Rad. 

It all makes complete sense, the relationship between the three:

Jesus -- "A deep, core, part of his Soul reality is one of desiring to teach Natural Law, and to act upon it."

Mary -- "Mary's Soul nature was one of intense faith, and wanting to live for, and do, God's work."

Magdelena -- "And it was her own deep desire to to know God, and to do God's work, her FAITH in God, that then set in motion her relationship with Jesus."

Question:  Is it possible to find correlations to God's will in the chart of Jesus?  Of course all the correlations are there:  Neptune, 12th, Pisces, the water trinity, 9th house (Natural Law), etc.  But where would one look specifically in a chart to gauge the will of God?

Thank you.

Hi Linda,

Through the natural water trinity of Pisces, Cancer, and Scorpio where Scorpio, Pluto, correlate with the phenomena of will. Thus, via this natural water trinity we see the progressive transference in the center of gravity within consciousness wherein the Soul, Pluto, Scorpio, the 8th House becomes conscious and centered in it's own Source: God/ess. Thus, the egocentric orientation of course changes: the Moon, Cancer and the 4th House evolving through the 8th, to the 12, etc. In so doing the will of the Soul becomes progressively one with the will of God/ess. Thus, in the chart of Jesus we see his Neptune in Scorpio conjunct his S.Node of the Moon. The ruler's then become the Pluto conjunct his Mars. Acting out the will of God where his personal will is the will  of God'ess.

God Bless, Rad

Thank you for explaining that Rad.

Given his nn in the 5th house which is ruled by Mars in the 9th, opposing the ruler of the nn- does this give validity to the story that he in fact had a child with Mary, who then later traveled to another land with that child? This would indicate that this too was the will of God.

If so, what would the purpose of that have been? To have an actual human descendant.
Thank you.

Hi Ari,

No, there is no truth in that at all.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Ari and Linda,

Would you both like to continue a little bit more with the life of Jesus, or move on ? Relative to Jesus we could focus on his day of Crucifixion, and the chart of the moment of his passing. For example he had both the N.Node of Mars and Venus in Aries in his 4th.  On that day the transiting Sun was conjunct these Nodes. And, of course, these refer back to his natal Mars conjunct Pluto in Virgo in the 9th, which also refers to his natal S.Node and Neptune in Scorpio in his 11th. They also oppose all of his Pisces planets: a perfect symbol for being crucified for his beliefs, 9th, even though he was 'formally' charged and convicted of sedition: Scorpio. The moment of his passing was actually recorded in one of the Roman army personal who was there to guard the event, and to serve as the witness to his passing. And, at that moment, the 'sky went dark' according to this Roman army guard. Of course there were no astronomical reasons that would explain that phenomena. Yet, looking into the chart of Jesus with his N.Nodes of Venus and Mars in Aries in his 4th, the transiting Sun, one can see the symbols God induced phenomena: the 4th House is within the hours of darkness. So here we see the transiting Sun going dark at that moment of his passing.

The transiting Venus was exactly conjunct his natal Sun as well. Anyway, if you two want to go into this more let me know. If not let me know if you would like to keep this thread going as we can work on other charts.

God Bless, Rad

Thanks Rad, I would like to learn a little more about the complete life of Jesus.  I will examine your analysis of the crucifixion in the attached chart, and will try to answer any questions you may pose.  This thread is healing misconceptions about Jesus during the last 2,000 years of the Age of Pisces, including the Sub-Age of Virgo.  I'd also be interested in learning about the resurrection, if possible. 

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/Jesuscrucifixion.jpg)

Hi Linda and Ari,

Something that may be interesting to ponder and go into is the fact that Jesus had the S.Node of Vesta conjunct his S.Nodes of Venus and Neptune. And then in his natal chart his Vesta is conjunct all of the Pisces planets. When he was Crucified the transiting Venus was conjunct his Sun and natal Vesta. On that day, and the day of his Resurrection, the transiting S.Node of the Moon was at 1 degree of Aquarius and exactly conjunct the S.Node of Vesta. And, Linda, what is it that you would wish to know about the Resurrection ?

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Thanks for this information.  I will ponder those aspects
and present my findings here soon.  Also curious to see
the chart for the Resurrection (3 days after crucifixion),
especially what houses the planets and planetary
nodes fall in.  

Thanks.

Hi Linda,

Here is it ...........

God Bless, Rad

Hi Linda and Rad- I just wanted to log on and let you know that I'll be able to participate more later this weekend. And I'm totally excited to continue this exploration! Thank you.

Hi Rad and Ari,

Well I noticed in the chart of Jesus' crucifixion many symbols of trauma and death: 

Uranus was opposite Neptune, forming a t-square to the Sun.  Saturn 8th ruled that Neptune. 

The NN of Neptune was exactly conjunct Uranus. 

The NN of Uranus was exactly opposite Pluto. 

Saturn/Mars 8th squared the Nodes.

Interesting also was that the NNs of all the outer planets - Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto - were all in the 10th and 11th houses.

To me, the will of God was demonstrated by Neptune Capricorn 5th, the Moon in Leo, and Mars in the 8th house:  the signs of Leo and Mars correlating to "will."

The resurrection chart has the Moon conjunct the Ascendant:  a symbol of rebirth, a new self-image.

Looking forward to your further comments on these charts Rad and Ari.

Thanks.

Hi Rad and Linda,

QuoteSomething that may be interesting to ponder and go into is the fact that Jesus had the S.Node of Vesta conjunct his S.Nodes of Venus and Neptune. And then in his natal chart his Vesta is conjunct all of the Pisces planets. When he was Crucified the transiting Venus was conjunct his Sun and natal Vesta. On that day, and the day of his Resurrection, the transiting S.Node of the Moon was at 1 degree of Aquarius and exactly conjunct the S.Node of Vesta.

As I understand it Vesta has two general correlations.
1. The natural role of sexuality. This includes initiatory rites for young boys as well as I'm sure lots of other orientations that occurred during the matriarchy.
2. The progressive distortion of the natural sexual role by way of Men first creating the idea of sacred prostitution, which ultimately degraded to prostitution. All of this pointing to the sinfulness of the body/ of sexuality.

The sn of Vesta conjunct the sn of Venus and Neptune in Capricorn symbolizes the history of that distortion. With Jesus's natal Vesta conjunt all of his Pisces, including his Sun, it's clear that one of his life's purposes was to forgive the distortion; to heal the split between spirit and flesh.

The fact of Venus on his Sun and Vesta on the day of crucifiction, in combination with the sn of the Moon in Aquarius on the sn of Vesta in Cap, is really fascinating.
For one, those transits don't seem to be particuarly "crucifiction-esque". So the question to ask is "from the point of view of these transits, what exactly was the meaning of the crucifiction?" It seems that this had to do with the intent to heal the collective distortion. Jesus's body suffered, and yet he even prayed "forgive them father for they know not what they do". This event became the foundation of what is known as mainstream christianity today. Most people think of it as "he died for our sins" and yet, there is something going on here. He was transmuting collective karma related to the distortion of the patriarchy.

Also note , the transiting sn was semi square his natal Venus as well as being on the sn of Venus. That alone implies the intent to literally take into himself (Venus by way of crescent phase semi square) the collective guilt shame and corruption regarding the body/senses/sexuality.

Thank you. With love,
am

Hi Linda and Ari,

You both have done very well in our analysis of Jesus. I would also suggest that his Crucifixion was also about the right and wrong use of 'judgments': The transiting Mars and Saturn conjunct in Aries and squaring the Nodes in the Crucifixion chart, and how can literally be killed because of the wrong use of judgments where the judgments themselves are rooted in distorted and perverted religious doctrines. The transiting Vesta was also conjunct his N. Nodes of Mars and Venus on that day with the transiting Sun. This Vesta symbolism is all about how wrongly women have been treated at the hands of men because of the distorted patriarchal 'religions' that created their judgments upon them. To me this is why Jesus purposely choose both Mary's to be so integral to his life. And, of course, as Ari said the whole issue of natural sexuality versus the distortions to natural sexuality that yet again men have managed to create. I also feel that since the transiting Nodes on the day of the Crucifixion and the day of his Resurrection were beginning to square his natal Nodes that this is a tremendous symbol for the 'Crossroads' that humanity in general was creating for itself at that time because of the progressive religious and philosophical systems that were and are so misaligned with natural laws. In other words unless humanity realigns with natural laws in every way then by not so doing it will lead inevitably to the extinction of the human race. All of this is to me is some of the deeper meanings of Jesus sacrificing his own life.

Let me know if you wish to keep working more on his life, or if you want to move on. It's really interesting that we began our discussion of Jesus when he had a Mercury return happening, and now this day, his birthday.

God Bless, Rad

Thank you Rad and Ari for the opportunity to see these charts in their Natural truth which has been very healing.  I'm happy to move onto something else, unless you, Ari or others would care to further examine the charts of Jesus.  Here's a quote from Michael Tsarion that I like regarding Mercury:

"The truth is not going to be packaged in one little book, you have to look everywhere and draw the truth out from every source.  Mythology teaches that Mercury, the god of knowledge, was the only god who had the ability to go between Hades and heaven. All doors and hallways were open to him.  The gods and goddesses would all have to accept Mercury.  That is a metaphor for the mind of man. There should be no place that he disallows himself to go, because ultimately the last frontiers of the world are mental, and all real change is also mental.  You can't live in a one season world.  Nature won't allow it.  And we're doing it, and that's why we're experiencing all these meltdowns and seeing the disenchantment right now because man wants to live mentally and psychologically in a one-season world and that goes against the ways of Nature, goes against his better nature - his inner nature.  So when it comes to knowledge people have to be prepared to have all the seasons and all the flavours in order to really find out what's going on."

Just one last question from me before we move on:  Is it possible to get some idea from the charts of Jesus if he had further work to carry out on Earth after the resurrection, and where that Soul is today?  (Example, by examining the Planetary North Nodes and the North Node for the Sun in the next life?)

That's a beautiful quote Linda. I'm happy to move on as well.

Hi Ari and Linda,

The Soul of Jesus is free from the necessity of coming back to this Earth. His Soul is within the Casual plane now.

So let me know if you both, or others, wish to continue in our planetary nodes thread. And, if so, what ideas do you have to move forwards with it.

God Bless, Rad

What's he doing in that plane? I read in autobiography of a yogi that he and babaji are overseeing the long term evolution on this planet.

I am grateful to continue. I will think about ideas.

Thank you Rad.

An idea would be to do a few practice charts examining aspects between Planetary Nodes and Natal planets.  I ask this because others have asked me this very question.  For example, I have my natal Moon in Cancer conjunct the Planetary North Node of Pluto.  A friend of mine has a stellium of planets in Aquarius conjunct the Planetary South Node of Neptune.  Perhaps we could practice with charts of well-known people.

Hi Linda,

Ok, so let's hear from Ari too.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Ari,

As any Soul whose Soul has evolved to a state where it's root plane of existence is within the Casual plane Jesus is 'overseeing' the developments of countless Souls is many, many places: not just Earth.

God Bless, Rad

Yes I'm in! I think this is a great idea.

When we begin, I will post a message letting everyone know that we are starting a new paradigm so that more people can join if they wish.

Hi Ari and Linda,

Ok, let's go with it then. I will think of someone interesting that we can work with and then run it past you guys to see how you feel about it. Going to take a weekend off finally, so will be back on Monday.

God Bless, Rad

Have a lovely, relaxing weekend Rad.

Awesome. I hope you have a deeply peaceful weekend Rad.
With Love,
Ari Moshe

Hi Linda and Ari, and anyone else you wished to participate in this thread ,

So wondering if you guys would like to work with the birth chart of Maria Montessori ? Attached is her short biography from wikipedia, her birth chart with planetary nodes, and a picture of her as well. Let me know what you think.

God Bless, Rad

****************************************************

Maria Montessori From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Born    August 31, 1870(1870-08-31)
Chiaravalle (Ancona), Italy
Died    May 6, 1952(1952-05-06) (aged 81)
Noordwijk, Netherlands
Resting place    Noordwijk, Netherlands
Nationality    Italian
Education    University of Rome La Sapienza Medical School
Occupation    Physician and educator
Known for    Founder of the Montessori method of education
Religion    Catholic
Children    Mario Montessori Sr.

Maria Montessori (August 32, 1870 - May 6, 1952) was an Italian physician and educator, a noted humanitarian and devout Catholic best known for the philosophy of education which bears her name. Her educational method is in use today in public as well as private schools throughout the world.
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Maria Montessori was born in 1870 in Chiaravalle (Ancona), Italy, to Alessandro Montessori and Renilde Stoppani (niece of Antonio Stoppani).[1] At the age of thirteen she attended an all-boy technical school in preparation for her dream of becoming an engineer.[2] Montessori was the first woman to graduate from the University of Rome La Sapienza Medical School, becoming one of the first female doctors in Italy. She was a member of the University's Psychiatric Clinic and became intrigued with trying to educate the "special needs" or "unhappy little ones"[3] and the "uneducatable" in Rome. In 1896, she gave a lecture at the Educational Congress in Torino about the training of the disabled. The Italian Minister of Education was in attendance, and, sufficiently impressed by her arguments, appointed her the same year as director of the Scuola Ortofrenica, an institution devoted to the care and education of the mentally retarded. She accepted, in order to put her theories to proof. Her first notable success was to have several of her 8 year old students apply to take the State examinations for reading and writing. The "defective" children not only passed, but had above-average scores, an achievement described as "the first Montessori miracle."[4] Montessori's response to their success was "if mentally disabled children could be brought to the level of normal children then (she) wanted to study the potential of 'normal' children".[5]

   "Scientific observation has established that education is not what the teacher gives; education is a natural process spontaneously carried out by the human individual, and is acquired not by listening to words but by experiences upon the environment. The task of the teacher becomes that of preparing a series of motives of cultural activity, spread over a specially prepared environment, and then refraining from obtrusive interference. Human teachers can only help the great work that is being done, as servants help the master. Doing so, they will be witnesses to the unfolding of the human soul and to the rising of a New Man who will not be a victim of events, but will have the clarity of vision to direct and shape the future of human society".[6]

Because of her success with these children, she was asked to start a school for children in a housing project in Rome, which opened on January 6, 1907, and which she called "Casa dei Bambini" or Children's House. Children's House was a child care center in an apartment building in the poor neighborhood of Rome. She was focused on teaching the students ways to develop their own skills at a pace they set, which was a principle Montessori called "spontaneous self-development".[7] A wide variety of special equipment of increasing complexity is used to help direct the interests of the child and hasten development. When a child is ready to learn new and more difficult tasks, the teacher guides the child's first endeavors in order to avoid wasted effort and the learning of wrong habits; otherwise the child learns alone. It has been reported that the Montessori method of teaching has enabled children to learn to read and write much more quickly and with greater facility than has otherwise been possible.[8] The Montessori Method of teaching concentrates on quality rather than quantity.[6] The success of this school sparked the opening of many more, and a worldwide interest in Montessori's methods of education.

After the 1907 establishment of Montessori's first school in Rome, by 1917 there was an intense interest in her method in North America, which later waned, in large part due[citation needed] to the publication of a small booklet entitled "The Montessori System Examined" by William Heard Kilpatrick - a follower of John Dewey. (Nancy McCormick Rambusch contributed to the revival of the method in America by establishing the American Montessori Society in 1960); at the same time Margaret Stephenson came to the US from Europe and began a long history of training Montessori teachers under the auspices of the Association Montessori Internationale (AMI). Montessori was exiled by Mussolini mostly because[citation needed] she refused to compromise her principles and make the children into soldiers. She moved to Spain and lived there until 1936 when the Spanish Civil War broke out. She then moved to the Netherlands until 1939.

In the year 1939, the Theosophical Society of India extended an invitation asking Maria Montessori to visit India. She accepted the invitation and reached India the very same year accompanied by her only son, Mario Montessori Sr. This heralded the beginning of her special relationship with India. She made the international Headquarters of the Theosophical Society at Adyar, Chennai, her home. However the war forced her to extend her stay in India. With the help of her son, Mario, she conducted sixteen batches of courses called the Indian Montessori Training Courses. These courses laid a strong foundation for the Montessori Movement in India. In 1949 when she left for The Netherlands she appointed Albert Max Joosten as her personal representative, and assigned him the responsibility of conducting the Indian Montessori Training Courses. Joosten along with Swamy S R, another disciple of Montessori, continued her work and ensured that the Montessori Movement in India was on a sound footing.

During a teachers conference in India she was interned by the authorities and lived there for the duration of the war. Montessori lived out the remainder of her life in the Netherlands, which now hosts the headquarters of the AMI, or Association Montessori Internationale. She died in Noordwijk aan Zee. Her son Mario headed the AMI until his death in 1982.

Maria Montessori died in the Netherlands in 1952, after a lifetime devoted to the study of child development. Her success in Italy led to international recognition, and for over 40 years she traveled all over the world, lecturing, writing and establishing training programs. In later years, 'Educate for Peace' became a guiding principle, which underpinned her work

I am interested Rad. I will set the time to focus on this last for a couple days from now.

Rad,
I've read the bio.  Just waiting for
further instructions from you.
Thanks.

Hi Ari and Linda,

Let's start with your own desires to connect to natal planets to the planetary nodes. There is so much in her chart that speaks to the nature of her life, and the history of her Soul, that set up the life that she lived: the relationship between the natal planets and her planetary nodes. For example, the exact conjunction of her S.Node of the Moon to the S.Node of Pluto, and by a couple of degrees to her S.Node of Saturn. These then refer to her natal Saturn in Sagittarius which is also conjunct S.Nodes of Venus and Jupiter. And, of course, that natal Neptune in Aries in the 9th is then squaring her Nodal Axis, and those S.Nodes Of Pluto and Saturn. At the same time that Neptune is trining her Saturn, and the S.Nodes of Venus and Jupiter. So the question would then be what has her Soul done prior the the life as Montessori to set up that life ?

God Bless, Rad

Here's a great article providing more depth about her spiritual life.
(I lost the link to this article!)

QuoteSimilarly to fellow Catholic theologian/scientists Teilhard de Chardin and Thomas Berry (among others), and in a way not unlike the "spiritual science" of Rudolf Steiner, Montessori looked carefully and deeply into the world of nature and found, not isolated material entities interacting mechanically, but a living and purposeful Cosmos. "All things are part of the universe, and are connected with each other to form one whole unity" (Montessori, 1973, p. 8). She was deeply impressed by he harmony she discerned in the natural world, the ecology of existence that gives every living thing a meaningful function in the larger system. Every species, indeed every individual organism, contributes to the good of the whole by performing its inherent "cosmic" function. This harmony has not emerged randomly, but expresses "a pre-established plan" that is "of divine origin"; she was convinced that "the purpose of life is to obey the occult command which harmonizes all and creates an ever better world" (Montessori, 1989b). The Cosmos is engaged in a process of evolution toward ever greater harmony-toward the fulfillment of God's mysterious purpose.

The guiding belief of Montessori's educational philosophy, the fundamental point around which all her principles and techniques revolve, is her conviction that humanity has its own special function to fulfill in this divine evolution. The human species is "God's prime agent in creation" and it is our responsibility to "learn to do more effectively our share of work in the cosmic plan" (Montessori, 1973, pp. 26, 33). Evolution is not yet complete; God's purpose has not yet been achieved, and the mission of human life is to give expression to the formative forces within us that are yearning to complete the cosmic plan. We are called to work in partnership with the divine. This understanding of our existence places all our endeavors-our cultural, political, economic, and even our most personal strivings-in an entirely spiritual light: "The world was not created for us to enjoy," Montessori proclaims, "but we are created in order to evolve the cosmos" (Montessori 1989b, p. 22). In an earlier essay (Miller, 2000), I argued that this striking statement is consistent with the teachings of great moral sages such as Martin Luther King, Jr., Abraham Heschel, and Krishnamurti, who all similarly asserted that we are on this Earth to contribute to the unfolding of divine justice, harmony and wisdom, not merely to amuse ourselves or satisfy our many material and sensual desires. In this light, education is not to be seen merely as preparation for a successful career or any sort of social or intellectual distinction; rather, education is the process of awakening the divine formative forces within every person's soul that enable the individual to make his or her own unique contribution to the cosmic plan, to fulfill his or her own destiny.

Montessori wrote that humanity's role in evolution is to construct a "supra-nature"-a social, cultural and technological extension of nature that calls forth ever greater dimensions of human creativity and understanding-a notion very similar to Teilhard de Chardin's "noosphere." This is humanity's task because we, more than any other living species, "can receive the emanations of the Godhead" and
transform divine plans into physical and cultural manifestations (Montessori, 1972a, p. 35). But she repeatedly observed that our material and technological progress had far outpaced our psychological, moral and spiritual development, and in the twentieth century it was imperative that we make a determined effort toward remedying this imbalance. Modern societies, due to their pervasive materialism, have neglected the spiritual forces that animate the human being, and our institutions, particularly schooling, have become repressive and damaging, turning people into "slaves" of the machine rather than cultivating their spiritual sensitivity, she wrote. Modern people are ill prepared to deal with the great moral challenges of our age, and are unable to resist the demons of nationalism and war that threaten to engulf the world.

To address this imbalance, Montessori envisioned a curriculum for elementary school students that she called "cosmic education." The purpose of this approach is to provide the young person with an expansive, inspiring vision of the grandeur of the universe and one's personal destiny within it. This is an education that gives life meaning because all aspects of creation are shown to fit into a complex, interconnected whole that is far larger than our customary limited worldview. Aline D. Wolf comments that The value of cosmic education, as I see it, is that it places the child's life in a spiritual perspective. No one can be confronted with the cosmic miracle and not see that there is more to life than our everyday experiences. Fast foods, designer sneakers, video games and sports heroes all pale beside the wonder of the universe (Wolf, 1996, p. 97).

Cosmic education lifts the young person's consciousness out of the mundane, materialistic concerns of modern society and instills a sense of awe, touching a receptive and searching force within the soul. This is exactly the sort of "spiritual reconstruction" that Montessori intended when she spoke at several international peace conferences in the 1930s, and asserted that only the spiritual renewal of humankind through education, not any superficial economic or political effort, could alter the violent course of human history: "The real danger threatening humanity is the emptiness in men's souls; all the rest is merely a consequence of this emptiness" (Montessori, 1972a, pp. 44, 53). In recognition of her efforts, Montessori was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1949, 1950 and 1951.

To me, this soul seems to be later parts of spiritual state. Perhaps early third
spiritual.

Wow, what an amazing chart example of a fruition condition. Her sn and its ruler are all conjunct various planetary south nodes, plus all the nn planets conjunct the lunar north node. This soul has come in with a particular purpose to do this work and has in fact been very much in preparation for this prior to this life.One of her purposes was to dissolve the social constructs that create gender differentiation (Nepune in Aries on the MC, first quarter square to Capricorn sn).

This is one of the signatures in the chart that explain why she came into this life as a female. Prior to this life, this soul's underlying intention has been to devote itself to a form of service that would provide a solid foundation and structure for society that is more aligned with natural law. It's clear that she has been highly involved in participating in the social outlet and is well accustomed to operating within the current structures of the status quo to actualize her special purpose. However, the key in this life has been to pay attention to HOW the current social reality is structured, and meticulously apply herself to that. All this is implied by Sn in Cap in the 6th, ruled Saturn in Sag in the 5th which is a full phase inconjunct with Pluto in the 10th. Her soul knows patience and tenacity, and has lived prior lives at ceaselessly working towards her cause, and sacrificing what personal desires were necessary in order to
fulfill her purpose (Pluto in Taurus in the 10th, sn in Cap in the 6th).

The nature of this purpose has been to revolutionize the understanding of social conditiong and create new forms based on a higher intuition of what human potential is all about (sn ruler Saturn in Sag in the 5th ruled by and in a full phase opposition to Jupiter in Gemini in the 11th). She has been participating in
society, interfacing with the current status quo in order to do this, for a long time now.

The question for her soul has been how. How to make these changes. Again the full phase inconjunct between Saturn and Pluto. How to introduce these new ideas, collect the right information such that her special purpose can be accepted into the social sphere. This is the nature of the evolutionary requirement to create new structure. However the point of this chart, also given her evolutionary state, has been to do the work that is necessary in order to bring forth a divine plan into social reality. The Neptune skipped step implies the unresolved intention to do just that. In prior lives, she was not able to achieve the necessary social credentials to succeed to the extent that the soul has been guided to do so.

Another spin on this, is simply that the skipped step implies that prior lives have been building to this point, and she simply hasn't been able to/ prepared enough. and in the life of Montessori the soul was ready to embrace constructive action (square) that will enable her special purpose to unfold for the masses.

As to the connection between natal planets and planetary nodes:
The sn of Pluto and Saturn conj the sn in Capricorn all retrograde, and the ruler of the sn, Saturn conjunct the south nodes of Venus and Jupiter, also retrograde in Sag in the 5th. All of Saturn activity is trine natal Neptune in Aries in the 11th, and except for the sn of Jupiter, is also trine natal Venus in Leo in the
1st.

This all implies that she has been a mentor in the past, and has come in with the special purpose to teach and educatate the masses. Focusing on Saturn first, its sn is conjuct the sn of the Moon. Thus this soul's prior life identity was gravitated and centered around working within and fitting into the current social reality in order to express her vision. With the NN of saturn conjunct the lunar north node, this also implies that she comes from a very rich past during the matriarchy of having been a leader and educator of sorts. The linkage to the 5th house Saturn says something about her relaitonship to children, raising them, guiding them in the context of natural law.

The sn of Jupiter is retro in Sag in the 5th conjunct natal Saturn. It is the past of the current life Jupiter in Gemini in the 11th to which it opposes. This corresponds to a soul that has had an expansive vision as it relates to the underlying comsmological understanding of creation in general- and thus children- and has been developing this understanding by way of teaching for a long time now. The challenge has been to share this with the community, to actually apply the understanding in a way that is concrete and logically sound. The gibbous phase opposion implies she has been working on just that, culminating to this life such that she can communicate the intuitive ideas in ways that are both inspiring, expansive and empiricle to the best that she can. Note that the nn of Jupiter is exactly conjunct the lunar nn. Such a powerful chart!

The south node of Venus on that saturn, also retrograde, as the past of the current life Venus in Leo in the 1st implies that she has valued and found personal meaning in her life through her unique purpose and has been highly self focused as a result. The combination of Fire and Neptune (trine) imply a passionate comittment to do god's work. The fact of it being retrograde again points to there having been an over doing it- relative to Saturn, the question has been, did it work? Did she succeed in the way that she wanted to? There is such a LARGE and expansive quality to her soul, has she been tactful enough to execute the spiritual purpose? It seems that the challenges in the past have been about that. Like some sort of teacher, mentor who was not seen and entirely succesful, and clearly persecuted, though still had a great impact.

I'm going to stop here and allow some time for this information to integrate.

I think it'll also be a great practice to create a cosmogram with her sn and then another with Saturn. Given the strong connections to her sn, this would in fact indicate where she has been- and pivitol lifetimes prior to montessori that were pivitol in the life of montessori.... i'll try to make some time for that, though it may be later in the next week that I can actually focus on this again. I'm super busy, ironically with astrology that I can't practice astrology too much right now. Thank you for this amazing learning experience Rad. I look forward to reading your feedback and Linda's work.
With Love,
Ari Moshe

Hi Ari,

Excellent, just excellent. It seems to me too that she has had very, very unique ideas of not only how to educate, but in many different areas as well. And that she has attracted the wrath of the consensus via violent opposition to those unique ideas because of those in the consensus feeling threatened by her: the Neptune in Aries in her 9th, squaring her Nodes, the S.Nodes of Pluto and Saturn as well. And that Neptune also squares her Mars in Cancer. So those 'skipped steps' could have a lot to do with her being blocked by those powers that be, her feeling crushed and defeated because of.

The Pluto opposed Jupiter also suggests this. It's interesting too that she ended up in India because that, to me, is one of her original homelands. S.Nodes of Venus, Mercury and Mars are in her 3rd, the Jupiter in Gemini. Thus, through geodetic equivalents this then connects to India.

God Bless, Rad

Marie Montessori

The SN of Pluto Cap 6th correlates to an evolutionary past encompassing the Virgo archetype:  service, work function, critical thinking, healing, purification, and self-improvement through self-analysis.  In Capricorn, Montessori's service or work function had been directed towards bringing about improvements in the education system for the benefit of the larger whole of society, as well as personally for herself in terms of self-authority and self-determination.  She had lived in matriarchal times (Saturn/Sag) and could easily have been a leader or teacher (Saturn 5th/Jupiter 11th/SNs of Jupiter and Uranus 5th) ushering in new, expansive techniques in teaching. Her Pluto/PPP/Nodes suggest a gender switch.

The tight conjunction of the SNs of Pluto and Saturn with the South Node are all ruled by Saturn Sag 5th and opposed by Jupiter Gemini 11th meaning that her societal function at the cutting edge of child education incorporated the tenets of Natural Law.  This is reflected in the skipped steps of Neptune/Aries/9th.  This conjunction is also dynamically connected to the 10th/4th house polarity, natal Pluto 10th, PPP 4th, Moon 4th (ruled by Pluto) where she suffered societal judgment and consensus blockage by forces that were not willing to embrace the new and improved educational system (6th house Cap).  This lead her to methodically apply herself to consistent hard work that would bring about personal improvements in the way she needed to approach society.  

With the SNs of Pluto and Saturn conjunct the South Node, the task had been a formidable one in the past, but in that current lifetime she needed to follow the instinctive promptings of Neptune.  This resolution would bring achievement through the NNs of the planets in the 12th house in Cancer through the energies of culmination and transcendence of her own self-image, and the necessity of her work from a spiritual perspective that would enable society to treat children differently.  

The prior life dynamics of the SN of Pluto condition the natal placement of Pluto Taurus 10th by way of a 1st quarter trine (fruition) by integrating and establishing the 10th house purpose in a highly individualistic and non-stressful way.  Natal Pluto correlates to the need for the Soul to evolve, and serves to integrate the evolutionary forces of the past as they interface with the future.  Pluto Taurus 10th indicates that the prominent social role or work function was in need of expansion by way of the PPP, "˜coming out of the well,' merging with powerful symbols, learning emotional security, and taking powerful new methods of child education into the world.

Her 10th house Soul desire and purpose was supported by the SN Cap 6th, and the SNs of Pluto and Saturn:  natural self-reliance, personal power, leadership, a critical eye for detail, self-determination, humility, a good understanding of systems and structure.  This was consciously facilitated by Venus Leo 1st, a charismatic, pioneering spirit, breaking "new" ground in the child educational field.  Venus (the facilitator) conjuncts the NNs of Neptune, Mercury and Venus, the interplay between the past and present serving to create the conscious egocentric structure that would bring about an utterly new system serving a higher spiritual purpose.

The skipped steps of Neptune Aries 9th were meant to be recovered through the South Node Cap 6th where perhaps some final details in synthesizing the skills and techniques were made, and how she would take them out into the world.  This also clarified that her purpose was a spiritual one that would expand to reach the whole world.

The natal Pluto Taurus 10th had evolved through the NN of Pluto Cancer 12th by embracing a spiritual dimension.  The combination of all of these evolutionary forces reflected a Soul on a specific mission as implied by the Moon Scorpio 4th (a new self-image) and all the Cancer planets and Nodes in the 12th house allowing a surrender to a higher power, to transcend what had come before, and to create a new way of caring for children.  In this respect she was an instrument of God's will.  Since her methods have spread across the world, this places her somewhere in the 3rd stage spiritual evolutionary condition.

Here are a few of her cosmograms and some "unedited" thoughts:  the Saturn/Sag cosmogram contains symbols of breaking new ground, metamorphosis and revolutionary change.  The Jupiter/Gemini cosmogram pertaining to the Moon and Venus show a need to bring balance to an extreme situation (Jupiter/Gemini being paradoxical) so that Natural Law could be incorporated into child care, that is, ways to make learning possible in a "natural" way. The theme of bringing balance, attention and care to children's needs are repeated in the Venus and Moon cosmograms.  

Thanks Rad and Ari - I hope some of this is accurate.

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/MarieMontessoriCosmograms.jpg)

Hi Linda,

Wonderful analysis Linda. All very correct, and it's neat that you included in your analysis some of her cosmograms. Her chart is yet another confirmation of the geodetic astrological zones as well keeping in mind that she was born in Italy, lived and died in Holland. Look at all the symbols in Aries, Cancer, Capricorn, and Libra which all correlate with those places. The recovery of the skipped steps: Neptune in Aries equals Italy and that entire region.

God Bless, Rad

Hi All,

I thought it might be useful to re-post this older thread on the nature and function of the Planetary Nodes. JWG taught about the importance of the Planetary Nodes in Evolutionary Astrology. So for those who are truly interested in understanding the critical component of Evolutionary Astrology please allow yourself to read through the totality of this older thread. And, as you do so, if you have any questions about what you are reading please do not hesitate to ask. Simply start on page one of this thread and read it from there.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad

Is there specific dynamic or meaning on individual level, when a person has Pluto's SN conjunct Saturn's SN in balsamic phase, compare to person has them in new phase? I think about personal level, because unlike transit Pluto/Saturn, Pluto's SN and Saturn's SN can be in balsamic or new phase for people in same generation.

Thanks   

Hi Wei,

It comes down to the individual evolutionary stage of development in terms of how any given soul's consciousness is affected by the balsamic or new phase South Nodes of Saturn and Pluto conjunctions. In turn how any given Soul's consciousness and evolutionary capacity impacts on the nature of times, Capricorn, that it is living within: the nature of the country of birth, the nature of the conditions within environment of where it is born and lives, and the nature of the world itself.

God Bless, Rad

hi Wei,

   referring to your last comment:

"Is there specific dynamic or meaning on individual level, when a person has Pluto's SN conjunct Saturn's SN in balsamic phase, compare to person has them in new phase? I think about personal level, because unlike transit Pluto/Saturn, Pluto's SN and Saturn's SN can be in balsamic or new phase for people in same generation." - (Wei)

   can you give an example of Saturn SN being balsamic to Pluto SN - was this during Pluto in Libra generation? Thank you very much.

Thanks Rad!

Hi Marty,

After seeing your question, I went back to check more range, it seems from mid-September to mid November, Pluto's SN and Saturn's SN are in balsamic conjunction (I didn't check every year, didn't check if this happens in other months though).

Hi Rad

After checking range when Pluto SN and Saturn SN form balsamic conjunction, it seems from mid-September to mid November (most years), and I believe every year October, they are in balsamic. Is there any evolutionary intent, or meaning, this happens in Virgo-Libra-Scorpio season?

Hi Wei,

Like I said before it comes down to the evolutionary level of development for any given Soul who chooses to be born when that balsmaic conjunction is occurring in terms of the why of it. And, within that, the nature of the actual reality they are born into as defined by the country of birth, and the local environment within that.

God Bless, Rad

Hola all,
Anyone else out there watching and wondering and gleaning from the upcoming transit on
April 12, 2019 of the planetary south node of Pluto conjunction at 22 Cap 15 with the transit south node of the moon at 22 cap 2, and the transit sn of Jupiter at 21 cap 46, (and the pulling up the rear, Saturn sn at 29 Cap 29 ) all occurring on April 12, 2019? Additionally, I am fixated by the planetary placements of these planets on this date in addition to their south node conjunctions. Note the moon is conjunct it's own north node, with Pluto conjunct its own sn, Jupiter the same and Saturn well, within wide orb within the same. I posted the ephemeris below for consultation. Culmination of cycles,  culminating (except for the moon, whose conjunct her own north node).... I am rather betwitxed and between myself. Thanks for sharing your insight.

Hi Chocolate Astrologer,

What does this mean to you ?

God Bless, Rad

Hola RAD,
I see this culmination as the transmutation of karma into dharma, as Dane Rudhyar calls the "transpersonal way, in which a human being can transform karma into dharma if he or she is able to fulfill the purpose with which Humanity invested him or her at birth." (Rudhyar, p131.)

Jupiter conjuncts it's own south node every 12 years, and Saturn conjuncts its own south node every 29 years, the moon well it conjuncts its own south node every month, and Pluto as we all know, only conjuncts its own south node every 248 years. And now we have the culmination of these south nodes in a conjunction at 22 Capricorn. What does that mean? (says my 28 Gemini Sun Mind,) And why 22 Capricorn. Yes, the structures are all crumbling down around us. What was once security is now dust, blowing in the wind.

I look to Dane Rudhyar as my guide in the sky and his numerous works as my road maps. When I don't understand something, I read the sabian symbol. And the sabain symbol for 23 Capricorn is, "A soldier receiving two awards for Bravery in Combat." And the keynote, rather poignant says: "The reward offered for the fulfillment of individual responsibility ."  (Hmm, now my intuition says, we're onto something).

Rewards come after culminations, right? Saturn is the archetype of responsibility, boundaries, time and space, limits. Jupiter is the archetype of expansion, abundance, my personal truths. And Pluto is the archetype of the evolution of the Soul, and Pluto in Capricorn, exemplified in these souls being born now, is evolving on a transpersonal level through the individual which Rudhyar refers to as the transpersonal way.

I state here in Rudhyar's own words, " In it's application to human psychology and the future possibility of humanity's development, the concept of holarchy inevitability leads to the realization that a state of more-than-individual (or 'transindividual') existence is not only a possibility, but the only unglamorous, realistic and practical way to give meaning and direction to the present-day struggle of individuals and nations toward what many people, often naively, call the New Age."
"The possibility of a really 'new' Age can be seen in the interrelated cycles of planetary and cosmic motions, if properly interpreted, but cycles do not determine what will happen. They only evoke the possibility of the happenings and IF it happens, something of its basic character. Man alone can decide what actually and concretely will happen- at least at Man's own level of existence."
"Humanity is only a part of vaster wholes- the planet, the solar system, our galaxy- and these wholes hierarchically set the cosmic and planetary stages; test, on the stage of the Earth's biosphere Man is a crucially important performer. Humanity no doubt has a role to perform, at least broadly defined by its place within these vaster wholes. The 'score' is not of Man's own making, but the performance is nevertheless his, for better or for worse; and every truly individualized human being is a responsible aspect of Humanity-as-a-whole. The whole acts not only in the individual, but through the individual. The whole realizes itself in and through the acts, feelings and thoughts of its individualized participants who have become open to its descents of power. As this occurs, the transindividual state of existence is reached. "
"The way to such a state is what I call the transpersonal path. In no basic sense is it different from what esoteric traditions have spoken of as the Path of Initiation: yet this hoary and haloed word, Initiation, can be seen in a new light once the human being who is to tread the path leading to it has actually emerged from the chrysalis-state of bondage to the particular culture that has formed his or her mind and conditioned his or her feeling-responses and behavioral habits." (Rudhyar, 1980, p.xv-xvi).

Every culmination leads to a new beginning. And although April 12, 2019 is just a date that I chose not so much to glorify or make that date important, instead to reference in emphermis, as this this a process in time and cannot be pin-pointed to a moment but to a cycle. Its not so much that this date is so important, as is this time is so valuable, as it asks each individual who's Soul is "ready, willing and able" to seize this crisis of repolarization of energy or refocusing of consciousness or sense of identity on an individual basis and a personal expression. Which I see exemplified by the Moon conjunct its own north node at 22 cancer.

Rudhyar says it better than I could ever paraphrase, "When I refer to a transpersonal individual, I am not speaking of a transindividual being, but only of an individual person who has definitely taken steps on the path of radical and total transformation. The transpersonal way refers to this path which symbolizes a long and arduous process that can take a great variety of forms, yet which has a definite, nearly universal structure- just as the embryonic development of a future human being, within the mothers womb, takes place according to a series of clearly marked phases. This process of rebirth is difficult and often requires intense phases of catharsis because of the inertia of the biological past and the socio-cultural and individual karma that must be overcome." (Rudhyar, 1980, p. 112)

The Astrology of Transformation Dane Rudhyar, 1980.
https://youtu.be/hysV-gNnKs8

Hi Chocolate Astrologer,

Thanks for sharing what you have, and referencing Rudhyar as you did.

I would add, relative to the Jupiter archetype in this, the underlying issue/dynamic of BELIEFS as the determinants that structure 'reality' itself, and thus causes human behavior because of those beliefs. It is the nature of beliefs, instead of actual or natural truth which does not require beliefs at all, that is the underlying cause of so much of the structural chaos and crisis that is all around the Earth, Capricorn, now.

Humans sense of security, Cancer, is defined is essential ways by that which they believe.

In the English language it is interesting to note that in the middle of the word belief is this: LIE.

God Bless, Rad

Greetings. I am quite new to EA and hope to enroll in the course sometime soon. I was actually able to access this thread by way of a link on a YouTube video featuring Jeff Green's discussion of planetary nodes. In the second part of the lecture he's reviewing the chart of a former client of his which is drawn on a whiteboard and I just arrived at a point where he references experiences she had 'two lifetimes' ago. This was really intriguing for me. How is it that he's able to state so confidently what she experienced two lifetimes ago? Is this something that is taught in the course?

Also, in researching the nodes of the various planets in my own chart, I've noticed that a few of the nodes are actually conjunct natal planets. I'm wondering what the implications for the past or future is in terms of aspects made to the nodes of planets by natal planets.

Thank you in advance for taking time to consider these questions.

Hi Monk,

First, welcome to our message board.

JWG had other kinds of capacities that allowed him to see into the past lives of others. That's where that statement came from. It is not something you can learn in EA of itself.

When a planet is in a aspect to a planetary node it means that the archetypes of the planetary node, south or north, combine with the archetypes of the planet in actualizing the evolutionary journey of the Soul as that lecture JWG did in Holland on the planetary nodes illuminates.

God Bless, Rad