Quote from: Rad
Hi Stephan,
Start a new thread with your chart posted in it.
Rad
Thanks Rad for this learning opportunity.
Would you mind posting the chart? (Then I know that it is right, and in the appropriate format.) To Anyone and Everyone who chooses to say ANYTHING AT ALL!!
Any input is welcome, and I will try to be as a responsive client with on topic feedback.
Thanks in advance for Anyone who has anything to say.
Here is my data:
Birth information: Stephen; June 23, 1962; 1:20AM: Washington, DC, USA
(http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/images/Stephen.gif)
Biographical information: White, raised with Roman Catholic conditioning in solid middle class upbringing; fifth (youngest boy) of seven children - three boys/four girls. Father was a Government-employed (workaholic, alcoholic) engineer; Mother was an overstressed (withdrawn and anxious) homemaker. Parents ruled with an iron fist, with no compromises. Sunday Church was mandatory (as was Sunday School) and behavior there strictly enforced and infractions punished (at home). A therapist once told me I was raised in a jail with very very mean guards. However, on the surface, we kept up all appearances of a normal family. Yet, inside that...there were extreme physical beatings and abuse by my parents, and there was psychological abuse and manipulation (playing one child off another), and I was sexually abused by male neighbor at 4 yrs (three sisters also sexually abused by our father); Family motto: "˜What goes on in the family, STAYS IN THE FAMILY!!" :-X So, no expectations of relief or release for us children. I was never good enough, even with straight A's I was told to get A+'s (honestly!), and was beaten for having only straight A grades. My father was especially hard on me...he told me I was special and would go far, but only if he was hard on me. So, I learned, if it could be done, by me it needed to be overdone. So, when I began to abuse myself, I did it even better than my parents and family members who taught me how. (I never do anything right in my own opinion, no matter the level of success achieved. I still face the constant dark shadow of that.) However, from that youth, I am left with a self-professed very clever mind ;) and very strong ego.
The rest of my brothers/sisters seem to be consensus, 1st or 2nd.
I married at 23 to a 35yr old woman, we had two children, now 22yr girl and 18yr boy. She was similar to my father, distant, manipulative and unaccepting, and I was withdrawn and unkind and perfectionist. Divorced in 1999, and remarried to a "˜GreatHeart!' (a bit of reward!). One son with her, now 7yrs (an advanced Soul, I believe). I currently work in network security.
Quote from: Rad
Please provide your own estimation of your Evolutionary stage, i.e. individuated, etc, and ask specific type questions as you can about what you want those on the message board to answer, i.e. 'what's my evolutionary intentions for the current lifetime".
As for Evolutionary Condition, I am not consensus, but I don't know what my level is, I seem to (throughout my life) have fit much of the literature for various levels and conditions that I am reading on this site and in Deva's book on that. So, I readily admit to a confusion on that. Maybe that could be the first part of this community exercise, in terms of "˜observe and correlate' : the analysis from my life story of my condition?
Quote from: Rad
Provide too, if you feel comfortable, a little of your life experiences too for that provides 'context' for the EA astrologer to work with.
So, here is the tale of me as I know it.
I have never been consensus reality oriented. I never fit in as a child, and quit trying when in grade school. (I now know that I fit the textbook description of "Asperger's Syndrom" although never formally diagnosed.) When young, I heard/felt in my heart/mind/behind my knees a divine sound/hum of "˜immanence' underneath/behind/within everything - now that is only memories of the memory. I used to have "˜bubble-joy' as a child, with just JOY at the beauty of the existence of it all, but that was beaten out of me. I used to go to what as a child I called a Purple Plain, with undulating hills of purple, and skies of purple, and absolute serenity and peace. Now, that seems but a dream of someone else's dream. I read enormously as child, and read and collected books on Tao and Zen in my teens. I turned my back on Roman Catholicism when very young (maybe 6-7?, but was beaten when I told my parents, so I had to hide that fact ever after), and quit going to Mass when I finally moved out of my parent's house (at 17). Then, slowly turned inward, distrustful of others, and worked as a carpenter building houses, outside society"¦and began to abuse substances, studied martial arts for two decades (before and throughout and slightly after the first marriage) and quit reading. Suddenly, one day, I found out my wife had a boy-friend, and thus, after my wife and I separated, I broke apart and my heart shattered in my chest, and I turned inward with a searchlight, and realized that I had studied martial arts to feel safe, and simultaneously realized I didn't want to hit anyone anymore, and was also tired of being on the fringes of society (a big day, that!!), and so I quit martial arts, and started to massively read again.
So, I joined the computer craze and moved into networking security (BIG mindset alteration required there, believe me!). Then, met my wife, and remarried. Been in security now 12yrs, but in the last few years, mindset change again, and it is just as a way to make money for my family and me (wrong economic situation to leave a stable job, really). In the last few years, I have had dreams of past lives, and terrible feelings began to surface, and then, I had a vision of the birth of all Creation, the quick passage of ALL life into nothingness, and the final death of all Creation!!! The meaninglessness of EVERYTHING weighed me down after that: Since we all collapse into sameness, what does distinction matter? So, at my new wife's requests, finally I went to see a shaman/psychic team. At first they seemed to be helping me. After that, under their misguided encouragement, meditating on how we are each of us gods, my ego expanded into this state of supreme self-importance and arrogance, and I started writing...so I could teach everyone the way (my way ::) !) to enlightenment!
After that, I was doing breath/chanting rituals early every morning, and I started picking up on other's emotions, and then I started having trouble knowing which emotions were mine or were not mine, and being around people became a torture. I would say, 'Stop feeling that...it is making me feel bad...' But then, soon after that, everything got very very bad (I couldn't sort out who I was from everyone else a lot of the time, due to the emotional antenna I had somehow become), and then in a thankful moment of clarity, I realized how truly stupid and angry and hurtful I was, and I decided very carefully on suicide. So, I designed several clever methods of suicide, each of which would (cleverly) end with an insurance payment to my family. (Did I mention that this mind/ego pair thinks that it is very clever!?! ;) ) But, then it got even worse for me (blackness, despair, meaninglessness, worthlessness, physical illnesses, meanness, etc.), and I wanted to not only kill my body, but my spirit. So, I decided that when I went to the Astral Plane next I would demand that the Authority (Source, God'dess, whatever name you like) shred my spirit into nothingness, and I would experience an absolute Soul-death. They would NOT be allowed to turn me down, since they would HAVE to respect my free will. Well, since I was going to do that, suddenly nothing mattered. So, I decided that I would stay alive until my natural death, as this would be my last life anyway, and I could do a SINGLE LIFE, yeah?, and it would be a kindness for my wife and children for me not to be found dead.
However, the knowledge of my pending Soul-death made my day to day existence very stress-free, since absolutely nothing mattered, as my Soul would NOT have to endure another life, and I felt FREE of EVERYTHING, since soon I would exist no more!! (round of applause for the cleverness of the mind/ego, eh!?! ;) ) But, soon THAT change led to seeing the overwhelming beauty of life once again, and the simple joys"¦of my family's laughter, of a plant that I planted growing and flowering, of a sunset in the midst of birdsong in the woods"¦and I decided to fight for my Soul. So, I quit the self-abuse like overnight! (well, ok, the physical and substance abuse, not the constant mental self-abuse), and began to journal, lost weight, got Reiki certifications - Level I and Level II and want to get the Master level (so that I can give Initiations to others) - and I began to meditate again, began to once again follow body detox procedures. However, throughout that period and even now, I have horrible "˜fugues' (as I call them), in which anxiety, despair, worthlessness, meaninglessness, fear, self-loathing, self-inflation, meanness, physical illnesses of various kinds, and many more emotions and sicknesses drown me into almost uselessness. The times in the past"¦youthful feelings of immanence, beatings and abuse, carpentry, substance abuse, massive readings of long ago, ego-expansion and writings to "˜Save the World', feeling-antenna ability, suicide, Soul-suicide"¦seem like a movie I once saw, which I can remember in pieces, but I don't feel like I am any of those people that I was. And, I have no idea any more who I am, really!! (Both freeing and very very scary!! Well, ok, still more scary than freeing!)
So, I work the job to feed us, and continually read, and then I discovered Astrology not too long ago, and in reading, read about the moon nodes, and wondered what about the other planetary nodes...? So I searched - and found, bought, and read Zipporah Dobyn's book on Planetary Nodes, which fascinated me, but was too little information. (I love information. ;) ) Then, one day by chance, I was visiting a small town called 'New Hope' (no kidding!), and I luckily wandered into an old bookstore, and happened to pick up Measuring the Night Part I, and, since it had (some) more information on planetary nodes, I bought it.
And, it brought me here.
(Is that too much information?)
So, what would be the Evolutionary Condition of my Soul, based on the above? I wanted to be honest and complete, so an accurate picture can be drawn. I can't figure it out yet (not so clever after all, eh mind?), and don't have any attachment to the outcome of that analysis one way or the other (its all good), but I would like to know so that I can learn to read my chart, then my family's charts, then one day other's charts.
questions:
What is my current Evolutionary Condition?
What are my evolutionary intentions for the current lifetime?
Any help on how to find the deeper source of me in order to heal the "˜fugues', as they disable me and destroy my quality of life.
I would absolutely request clarity and honesty, and, not only do I not mind criticism, I actively seek it. Why? Because, my mind feels that it is very clever ::) , and my ego (for survival purposes as a child) is very powerful, and yet my Soul yearns for true information from outside sources that I can honestly work with!
My sincere thanks for any input that anyone has to offer!!
May all who read this be thrice-blessed!!!
Hi All,
Right now, from what Stephan has shared, I would estimate that he is well within the 3rd Stage Individuated, and knocking on the door of the 1st Stage spiritual. Stephan is a new student to EA who is very sincere. I would like all of us to help address his very real Soul concerns and needs.
Below are the planetary nodes for Stephan. Please note that the S.Node of Neptune is conjunct his S.Node of the Moon and Saturn as you read through his shared biography. His Soul is on the edge of making tremendous Soul changes. Let's all try to give him a hand.
Rad
Chart, with Planetary Nodes and major asteroids in outer wheel
(http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/images/Stephen2.gif)
*** PLANETARY NODES ***
stephan - Natal Chart
Aspect Set: Standard Aspects - General Purpose
Aspects of Longitude
Vul Ascending Node 00°Cn28 Daily Travel +00°50'
Opp Ear 0°48' (S) Cnj Sun 0°48' (S) Cnj Vul 7°32' (A)
Sxt Ura 3°00' (A) Cnj Jun 5°21' (S) Cnj Cer 6°10' (S)
Tri Hyg 6°15' (S) Sqr Asc 6°00' (A) Opp MC 3°05' (A)
Sqr Vx 2°16' (A) Sqr EqA 3°45' (A) Sqr BMo 4°10' (A)
Vul Descending Node 02°Cn21 Daily Travel +01°07'
Tri Mon 5°32' (S) Opp Ear 1°05' (A) Cnj Sun 1°05' (A)
Cnj Vul 5°39' (A) SSq Mar 1°15' (S) Cnj Jun 3°28' (S)
Cnj Cer 4°17' (S) Tri Hyg 4°22' (S) SSq Ast 1°25' (S)
Sqr Asc 4°07' (A) Opp MC 1°12' (A) Sqr Vx 0°23' (A)
Sqr EqA 1°52' (A) Sqr BMo 6°03' (A)
Mer Ascending Node 21°Ge26 Daily Travel +00°45'
Cnj Mer 9°01' (A) SSq Ven 0°38' (S) Sxt Ast 2°40' (A)
Sqr BMo 4°52' (S)
Mer Descending Node 25°Cn34 Daily Travel +01°10'
Sqq Mon 2°41' (A) SSq Mer 1°51' (S) Sqq Jup 1°59' (S)
SSq Plu 2°45' (A) Sqq Chi 0°17' (A) Sxt Pal 3°14' (A)
Cnj PF 4°17' (A) Sxt BMo 0°44' (S)
Ven Ascending Node 25°Ge05 Daily Travel +00°34'
Opp Ear 6°11' (S) Cnj Sun 6°11' (S) Sqq Sat 0°30' (A)
Sxt Ura 2°22' (S) Sqq Nep 0°52' (A) SSq Nod 0°37' (A)
Sqq SNo 0°37' (A) Opp MC 8°28' (A) Sqr BMo 1°13' (S)
Ven Descending Node 02°Le01 Daily Travel +02°16'
Qnx Ear 0°45' (A) Cnj Ven 5°03' (S) Opp Sat 8°34' (A)
Cnj Nod 7°28' (S) Tri Asc 4°28' (A) Qnx MC 1°32' (A)
Sxt Vx 0°44' (A) Tri EqA 2°12' (A) Cnj PF 2°09' (A)
Mar Ascending Node 06°Ge15 Daily Travel +00°23'
Sqr Mon 1°38' (S) Cnj Mer 6°11' (S) Sxt Ven 0°49' (S)
Tri Sat 4°20' (A) Sqr Plu 1°34' (S) Sqr Chi 4°36' (A)
Sqr Hyg 0°28' (S) Tri SNo 3°14' (S) Sxt Asc 0°13' (A)
Qnx MC 2°42' (A) Tri Vx 3°30' (A) Sxt EqA 2°02' (A)
Tri Cup 3°24' (S)
Mar Descending Node 08°Li44 R Daily Travel -00°07'
Qnx Mon 0°50' (A) Sqr Vul 0°44' (S) Tri Mer 3°42' (S)
Sxt Ven 1°40' (A) Tri Sat 1°51' (A) Qnx Chi 2°07' (A)
Sqr Ves 3°02' (S) Sqq Pal 1°24' (A) Sqr Jun 2°55' (A)
Sqr Cer 2°06' (A) Qnx Hyg 2°00' (A) Sxt Nod 0°45' (S)
Tri SNo 0°45' (S) Opp Asc 2°15' (A) Sqr MC 5°11' (A)
Cnj Vx 5°59' (A) Opp EqA 4°31' (A) Cnj Cup 0°55' (S)
Jup Ascending Node 08°Cn38 Daily Travel +00°09'
Tri Mon 0°45' (A) Opp Ear 7°22' (A) Cnj Sun 7°22' (A)
Cnj Vul 0°38' (S) Tri Jup 3°55' (S) Qnx Sat 1°57' (A)
Tri Nep 2°19' (A) Sxt Plu 0°49' (A) Tri Chi 2°13' (A)
Cnj Ves 3°07' (S) SSq Pal 1°18' (A) Cnj Jun 2°49' (A)
Cnj Cer 2°00' (A) Tri Hyg 1°55' (A) Qnx SNo 0°51' (S)
Sqr Asc 2°10' (A) Opp MC 5°05' (A) Sqr Vx 5°54' (A)
Sqr EqA 4°25' (A) Sqr Cup 1°01' (S)
Jup Descending Node 12°Cp12 R Daily Travel -00°14'
Opp Vul 4°12' (S) Qnx Mer 0°14' (S) Tri Mar 6°24' (S)
Sxt Jup 0°22' (S) Sqq Ura 0°16' (S) Sxt Nep 1°15' (S)
Tri Plu 4°22' (A) Sxt Chi 1°21' (S) Opp Ves 0°26' (A)
Opp Jun 6°23' (A) Opp Cer 5°33' (A) Qnx Nod 2°43' (A)
Sqr Asc 5°43' (A) Cnj MC 8°39' (A) Sqr Cup 2°33' (A)
Sat Ascending Node 21°Cn09 Daily Travel +00°05'
Sqq Mon 1°44' (S) Sxt Mar 2°33' (A) SSq Plu 1°40' (S)
Cnj Ves 9°24' (A) Sxt Pal 1°11' (S) Sqq Hyg 0°34' (S)
Cnj PF 8°42' (A)
Sat Descending Node 25°Cp44 R Daily Travel -00°06'
SSq Mon 2°51' (A) Sqq Mer 1°41' (S) Tri Mar 7°08' (A)
SSq Jup 1°49' (S) Qnx Ura 1°44' (S) Sqq Plu 2°55' (A)
SSq Chi 0°07' (A) Tri Pal 3°24' (A) Tri Vx 7°00' (A)
Opp PF 4°07' (A) Tri BMo 0°34' (S)
Ura Ascending Node 14°Ge39 Daily Travel +00°03'
Sqr Mon 6°46' (A) Cnj Mer 2°13' (A) Sqr Jup 2°06' (A)
Tri Sat 4°04' (S) Sqr Plu 6°50' (A) Sqr Chi 3°48' (S)
Tri SNo 5°10' (A) SSq PF 0°12' (A) Tri Cup 5°00' (A)
Ura Descending Node 12°Sg49 R Daily Travel -00°03'
Sqr Mon 4°56' (A) Opp Mer 0°24' (A) Tri Ven 5°45' (A)
Sqr Jup 0°16' (A) Sxt Sat 2°14' (S) Sqr Plu 5°00' (A)
Sqr Chi 1°58' (S) Qnx Ves 1°04' (A) Sqr Hyg 6°06' (A)
Tri Ast 5°57' (S) Tri Nod 3°21' (A) Sxt SNo 3°21' (A)
Tri Asc 6°21' (A) Sqq PF 2°02' (A) Sxt Cup 3°10' (A)
Nep Ascending Node 10°Le09 Daily Travel +00°01'
Qnx Mon 2°16' (A) Sxt Mer 2°17' (S) Cnj Ven 3°05' (A)
Opp Sat 0°26' (A) Sqr Nep 0°48' (A) Qnx Chi 0°42' (A)
Cnj Nod 0°40' (A) Opp SNo 0°40' (A) Tri Asc 3°41' (A)
Tri EqA 5°56' (A) Sxt Cup 0°30' (A) SSq BMo 1°09' (S)
Nep Descending Node 12°Aq39 R Daily Travel -00°01'
Tri Mer 0°13' (A) Opp Ven 5°35' (A) Sqr Mar 5°57' (S)
Cnj Sat 2°04' (S) Sqr Nep 1°42' (S) Qnx Ves 0°53' (A)
Opp Ast 6°07' (S) Opp Nod 3°10' (A) Cnj SNo 3°10' (A)
Tri Cup 3°00' (A) Sqq BMo 1°20' (A)
Plu Ascending Node 19°Cn22 Daily Travel +00°01'
Sxt Mar 0°46' (A) Tri Jup 6°49' (A) Cnj Ves 7°37' (A)
Sxt Pal 2°58' (S)
Plu Descending Node 20°Cp22 R Daily Travel -00°02'
Tri Mar 1°46' (A) Opp Ves 8°37' (A) Tri Pal 1°58' (S)
SSq Hyg 1°21' (S) Qnx Ast 1°36' (A) Tri BMo 5°56' (S)
Chi Ascending Node 22°Li39 R Daily Travel -00°03'
Sqq Mon 0°15' (S) SSq Plu 0°11' (S) Qnx Pal 0°18' (A)
Sqq Hyg 0°55' (A) Sxt Ast 3°52' (A)
Chi Descending Node 01°Ta42 Daily Travel +00°02'
Tri Ear 0°26' (A) Sxt Sun 0°26' (A) Sqr Ven 5°22' (S)
Tri Ura 4°14' (A) Tri Plu 6°07' (S) Tri MC 1°51' (A)
Qnx Vx 1°02' (A) Sqr PF 1°51' (A)
Cup Ascending Node 09°Le49 Daily Travel +00°01'
Qnx Mon 1°56' (A) Sxt Mer 2°36' (S) Cnj Ven 2°45' (A)
Opp Sat 0°46' (A) Sqr Nep 1°08' (A) Qnx Chi 1°02' (A)
Cnj Nod 0°21' (A) Opp SNo 0°21' (A) Tri Asc 3°21' (A)
Tri EqA 5°37' (A) Cnj PF 9°58' (A) Sxt Cup 0°10' (A)
SSq BMo 1°29' (S)
Cup Descending Node 11°Aq38 R Daily Travel -00°01'
Tri Mer 0°48' (S) Opp Ven 4°34' (A) Cnj Sat 1°03' (S)
Sqr Nep 0°41' (S) Qnx Ves 0°08' (S) Opp Nod 2°09' (A)
Cnj SNo 2°09' (A) Tri Cup 1°59' (A) Sqq BMo 0°19' (A)
*** END REPORT ***
Quote from: Rad on Jun 13, 2009, 01:24 PM
Hi All,
Right now, from what Stephan has shared, I would estimate that he is well within the 3rd Stage Individuated, and knocking on the door of the 1st Stage spiritual. Stephan is a new student to EA who is very sincere. I would like all of us to help address his very real Soul concerns and needs.
Below are the planetary nodes for Stephan. Please note that the S.Node of Neptune is conjunct his S.Node of the Moon and Saturn as you read through his shared biography. His Soul is on the edge of making tremendous Soul changes. Let's all try to give him a hand.
Rad
*** PLANETARY NODES ***
Nep Ascending Node 10°Le09 Daily Travel +00°01'
Cnj Nod 0°40' (A) Opp SNo 0°40' (A) Tri Asc 3°41' (A)
Nep Descending Node 12°Aq39 R Daily Travel -00°01'
Cnj Sat 2°04' (S) Sqr Nep 1°42' (S) Qnx Ves 0°53' (A)
Thanks Rad for posting the chart, and opening up this discussion with the determination of my Evolutionary Condition. I deeply appreciate this help.
I have a question based on what I read in Deva's excellant book:
"Astrologically speaking, this evolutionary state correlates with Neptune..."
and this that you wrote in your post:
"...knocking on the door of the 1st Stage spiritual." "Please note that the S.Node of Neptune is conjunct his S.Node of the Moon and Saturn..."
Besides the biography that I wrote, which gives an indication ("observe and correlate") of my Evolutionary Condition, is it an additional chart signature that in someone who is "knocking on the door of the 1st Stage spiritual" has the nodes of Neptune in close conjunction to the nodes of the Moon? Or, maybe not just conjunct, but would the Nodes of Saturn, Uranus, or Neptune be emphasized in some way in the chart of someone who is in the Evolutionary Stage of Consensus, Individuated, or Spiritual, respectively?
Thanks again,
God'dess Bless,
Stephen
Stephen,
Quote
Besides the biography that I wrote, which gives an indication ("observe and correlate") of my Evolutionary Condition, is it an additional chart signature that in someone who is "knocking on the door of the 1st Stage spiritual" has the nodes of Neptune in close conjunction to the nodes of the Moon? Or, maybe not just conjunct, but would the Nodes of Saturn, Uranus, or Neptune be emphasized in some way in the chart of someone who is in the Evolutionary Stage of Consensus, Individuated, or Spiritual, respectively?
No, looking at any chart will never in any case be able to determine the evolutionary condition of any Soul. That's why it is essential to 'observe and correlate' in each and every case. Just looking at a chart for example we can not even determine the gender of a person. My estimation of your evolutionary condition/ stage is based on your own shared biography.
Rad
Thank you Rad.
By the way, what astrology program is being used for the second chart, which gives the locations of the planetary nodes outside the wheel?
Also, has there been a determination of the symbol for the Pluto Polarity Point?
Just (eternally) curious...
Blessings,
Stephen
QuoteBy the way, what astrology program is being used for the second chart, which gives the locations of the planetary nodes outside the wheel?
I added that 2nd chart to to Rad's post, Stephen. It was created in Solar Fire 6. If anyone has interest in learning how to set Solar Fire up in that way I can put up a post about it.
QuoteAlso, has there been a determination of the symbol for the Pluto Polarity Point?
Some EA astrologers I know (including me) refer to it as PPP
Steve
Quote from: Steve on Jun 13, 2009, 07:51 PM
I added that 2nd chart to to Rad's post, Stephen. It was created in Solar Fire 6. If anyone has interest in learning how to set Solar Fire up in that way I can put up a post about it.
I would have interest. I don't have that program yet, but I will probably one day need it, since it can do that. Thanks very much for putting up that chart. I like the way that the graphical display quickly gives a visual of the house/axis emphasis in the chart.
QuoteSome EA astrologers I know (including me) refer to it as PPP
Steve
Thanks Steve. I was thinking more in the direction of a graphical symbol. One day in the future when a programmer working for one of the astrology programs decides (upon request from the EA Community) to place the Pluto Polarity Point as a symbol upon the wheel (so that aspects could be included to that point, if desired), I just wondered if there was already a decision in the EA Community Leadership of that symbol.
Like...the Pluto symbol with the top circle filled in, or a second crossbar upon the vertical stroke, but of course something with meaning for the evolutionary purpose of the PPP, not those I suggested.
Thanks again for the chart Steve,
God'dess Bless,
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
First let me thank you for the deep sincerity and honesty you share your deepest soul issues with our EA community. It is indeed deeply honoring and humbling....
Hope you don't mind me "˜jumping in' with a few thoughts relative to your underlying questions. As Rad already explained, the evolutionary state of any soul can not be 'read' from the chart, it can be determined only via observation and correlation. Meaning the way you express yourself, the questions that you search answers for, the way you communicate and the way you see life in general reflecting your own innermost reality. That inner reality is then reflected in the way of thinking, communicating and expressing oneself in life. (As we can not see you and interact you in actual life of course the way you expressed yourself is the base of observation, I too would agree with Rad that you are at minimum have had one or two toes "testing the water" so to speak...the "deep waters of neptune" the 1st spiritual.
And in essence what basically happened is that this "testing the waters" thing already confused the heck out of you to be short...:-) ...but this HAPPENS to all of us in one way or another so you need to know first of all that you are FAR FAR not alone ...this is very important for deep within your soul there is such a deep aloneness that literally hurts (pluto in 6th and in virgo) the aloneness and the deep unconscious (and I must say very VERY CONFUSED sense of guilt) is so very deep in you and this is what caused you to wanting to end your overall existence even as a soul....THAT too you need to know you are not alone with..... ::) ;D
One of the most important things is for you to really understand that your soul is (despite your innermost confusion) is actually loved and supported by the Source....deep behind your subjective consciousness it is there.....and there is a reason for you to be exactly how you are...but point being how we actually are and what we may think about that can be two different -- sometimes even very different issue...
Anyhow, so starting with pluto's placement it is very obvious that your soul has developed a deep, soul penetrating MASOCHISM and this is the first thing you would need to understand and heal from it in order to be able to make the necessary methamorphosizing changes and be able to manifest the evolutionary purpose your soul is really here for...
That can happen only if you would be able to unravel the source of the confusion deep within your soul...
When pluto (or mars) is opposite to moon, the soul in some ways in some fashions has been trying to 1) minimise any egocentric importance
2) it have done this in the past in ways that were EXTREMELY undermining, hurtful and harmful in childhood especially in early childhood.
3) when it falls to the 12/6th axis it has been played out via some extreme sado-masochistic ways.
For you it is pluto that opposing the moon, and the opposition is almost exact by minutes: there is an unconscious desire coming out of your soul (pluto) to choose parents that will undermine, reject and "˜punish' you for who you ACTUALLY are....this is pretty much the bottomline of the confuson by the way...
That's quiet a circumstance to set up to say the least.... and of course it all originates from the soul, the underlying masochism based on the deep unconscious need to "˜atone' for something. Point being here the belief that we need to atone for something may or may not be real....or it can be very much a mixture of things relative to the whatever past life understanding that the soul had in the past (when it set up the intention at the first place)
In your case in essence it correlates to the belief systems of the last 2000 years; the judeo-christian belief systems (virgo/pisces) that were and are based on a hypocratical teaching i.e. beating up the ego, beating up the life of the "flesh" and in general setting up a belief system and a standard that is almost totally against to anything natural....
In short what happened in this regard is that your soul believed (neptune, pisces, 12th house) that you have to give up, "˜sacrifice' your emotions (moon) as an individual in order to be "˜good enough' in order to be like what was told by society in general and the "˜authority figures' that you listened to (your s.node is conj. saturn) so in order to fulfil the expectations of the "˜social whole' you have to 1) sacrifice all your emotions, 2) in actual reality what all this meant (but this part you were not aware consciously) you have to DENY your soul. Your actual real soul...for the sake of what you were TOLD it 'is' and how it 'should be' instead........Pluto in 6th denial, virgo, feeling a lack, feeling not being good enough for some reason and feeling guilty for it....
The CONFUSION in your case is very very paradoxical it all comes from the deep deep correlations that Rad right away pointed out: the s.node of moon is conj. to Neptune's s.node AND conj. to saturn.
The paradox affects the deepest layers of your consciousness.....(s.node of neptune reflecting something that you have well we all have in the deepest unconscious levels which in short relates back to what historically called the 'atlantis or atlantian times' .....then in effect our current neptune placement always in some ways relate to this s.node of neptune....anyhow in your current evolutionary state this is by way of the natal neptune being in scorpio and being in the 8th house= there is a deep deep confusion in the bottom layers of your consciousness that comes out of a misunderstanding at the first place and plays out as an unconscious belief that something is "bad" about your soul as a soul (scorpio) This translates into the confused desire to end it, to give it up (neptune) to make it ultimately and eternally (neptune) dead (8th house and scorpio). In other words in some ways in some fashion your entrapment so to speak is about the very WAY your soul was trying to unconsciously evolve (8th house+ scorpio ruled by pluto) All this relates to the scorpio neptune in the 8th....so when we mix confusion/misunderstanding with some truths the end will still be confusion...
Why I am talking about this 'neptune language' here is because you have the ppp. in pisces and of course there is your natal moon, conj. with chiron (the deepest wound falls into not only pisces but into the 12th house, so every symbol in your chart is a double sword so to speak and the neptune/12th house/pissces symbol is extremely important in your chart. The emphasised confusion within your soul based on totally confused beliefs as what god is the Source is and how to serve it, how to be 'good enough' according to the Source of all things...what it 'wants' from you in other words........
So the real issue here is to become aware of the truth (jupiter) about your underlying beliefs that you developed via many many lifetimes, and how that affected on the one hand your whole emotional being and your subjective self image (moon) and how that affected back your unconscious and conscious BELIEFS which as a result caused a very contradictory and very severe masochism....
All this based on the patriarchal god image, the learned, man made laws and expected virtues, derived via a manmade god image versus the actual NATURAL Source...
The problem of course came out of trying to fulfil the social expectations (saturn conj. s.node of moon) and how that in ITSELF caused many many TRAUMA (11th house and Aq!) to your soul and to your very conscious consciousness (saturn) Yet in the very same time this highly emphasised trauma (not one but many life times) actually forced your soul to accelerate your own evolution,(11th house plus aq. s.ode) the acceleration led you to ever deeper searches within and on THAT level the deepest level you felt ever more utterly alone .....felt absolutely hopeless, absolute impossible (the paradox affect) and absolutely not good enough no matter which way you tried.....deep within the feeling of being so alone and so inferior everything became in the past a total paradox so to speak....how you relate to yourself (venus) has been almost totally oppressed/suppressed by ways of the parents, social norms and values so all your social relations; by the very people you wanted to actually serve (pluto in 6th and in virgo; the soul deep within knows that serving others is serving god...yet HOW to do that is usually the underying reason for confusion and masochism) so this created such a soul deep guilt; at the end for everything you done was either: 1) against what your soul felt was right ...this created real guilt on the deepest soul level. So via fulfilling the expectation of the social body that your soul wanted to serve created guilt....
2) if you done what your soul felt was sincerely and honesty right it was JUDGED WRONG for it was against what you were told you "should be doing" and in general how you "should be".
So this created the typical "damned if you do it" and "damned if you dont".
This is the paradoxical start so to speak for the extreme confusion and the resulting masochism your soul is actually dealing with.....
I have to go now and will have to come back later....
I hope the above make sense to you....?
Please let me know...
Much love and blessings to your sincere soul who has nothing wrong with it other than being so utterly confused and needs clarity and needs to unravel the truth (jupiter) about it's own confusion and the reason and results of that underlying confusion...
Lia
[quote from: Lia on Today at 08:38:41 AM]
Hi Stephen,
First let me thank you for the deep sincerity and honesty you share your deepest soul issues with our EA community. It is indeed deeply honoring and humbling....
[/quote]
Lia,
Thank YOU for your very real understanding of the seriousness of this issue for me. Despite the glib responses/misdirections of this oh-too-clever-mind, this issue overlays my entire existence - smothering my Soul like a blanket of deep deep snow after an endless blizzard, and yet, without the quiet peace of that midnight snow-covered land...and, truly, it is simultaneously like that blanketing cover is also at the same time a raging firestorm burning through a dry forest in the intense heat of the noonday summer Sun, and yet the forest is not consumed, CAN NOT be consumed, and so the fire can not burn itself out !?! When I can finally get to the place where I can envision the flames ending (such as: the demand that my Soul itself be shredded), then into the brief peace the paradox intrudes and overwhelms, and the fleeting peace of the midnight snow-covered quiet returns, but all-too-soon smothers me...and yet only long enough for the firestorm to sneak up and surround me once again.
Quote
Hope you don't mind me "˜jumping in' with a few thoughts relative to your underlying questions.
Not only do not I absolutely NOT mind, I welcome your input. Your posts are among those that I read, and re-read, searching for a bit of information to ease this paradox...to help lead me up out of the midnight frost (out of the raging firestorm), and find some cool peace and quiet within the burning (find some warmth and light within the freeze)...
Quote
And in essence what basically happened is that this "testing the waters" thing already confused the heck out of you to be short...:-) ...but this HAPPENS to all of us in one way or another so you need to know first of all that you are FAR FAR not alone ...this is very important for deep within your soul there is such a deep aloneness that literally hurts (pluto in 6th and in virgo) the aloneness and the deep unconscious (and I must say very VERY CONFUSED sense of guilt) is so very deep in you and this is what caused you to wanting to end your overall existence even as a soul....THAT too you need to know you are not alone with..... ::) ;D
Yes, you hit on a defining characteristic on my recent life, it is very confusing why suddenly everything changed for me. I know it now as necessary (however, the pain yet remains), after having the change defined in terms of my Soul's very evolution, yet the many changes were inexplicable and hard to live with"¦especially, the splitting of my mind against itself, and the thoughts of suicide. The very idea itself surprised me, and I never would have had the thought of suicide before, and moreover, the intensity overwhelmed me. And, yes, that thought leads to guilt, as well. For, you identified another new characteristic, the fierceness of pain "˜deep within my Soul' of a "˜deep aloneness' which has lead to a Soul-guilt at that very thought of ending my Soul. The pain arises into my throat as I now type, for I am unbelievably still of two minds even now - the clever one which sees no way out but Soul death - poised against the fierce resistance of my own Soul which refuses to succumb to the ego-mind's "˜solution(?)'. Last night, after the exposure of these deep "˜secrets' (on the Internet! no less), my internal compass flipped north-to-south once again, and the choking flood arose, bringing with it the panic of a captain in a floundering ship with land weeks away. "˜What have you done?,' from the clever ego-mind, "˜we're exposed!' "˜YOU'RE exposed,' Soul countered, but inside my heart was an image of the ship beneath me disappearing into the depths, sinking far below and fading from sight, with the seastorm just beginning"¦!
Quote
One of the most important things is for you to really understand that your soul is (despite your innermost confusion) is actually loved and supported by the Source....deep behind your subjective consciousness it is there.....and there is a reason for you to be exactly how you are...but point being how we actually are and what we may think about that can be two different -- sometimes even very different issue...
I am lost between what once I THOUGHT I was, and what I have yet to become. Or, not "˜to become' but rather perhaps what I truly already am beneath all this too-much thinking and too-much feeling. I have recently occasionally called upon the Source as Mother, and she has sometimes come with an intense and brilliant white light that is beyond white, making all that I thought was white to fade to beige and brown. But"¦it is very very hard for me to ask for help, and to trust (this exposure on the Internet is the Soul making the ego-mind "˜step up' and be FORCED to trust. Soul is oh-so-tired of the self-professed oh-so-clever ego-mind.). And, when Her energy leaves, Soul deflates - confused ("˜All was well, why did She leave?') and ego-mind cleverly slips into that gap ("˜YOU are not worthy! She left us because of YOU!) Soul trusts"¦and is hurt. Ego-mind trusts nothing except its own cleverness, and so CAUSES hurt.
To say I am on a fence is too little. Say instead that my right arm is chained to my left ankle and my left arm is chained to my right ankle, and there is a separate and separating Space Shuttle chained to each.
This new opening to trust, to the honest application of the EA Paradigm, is yet another attempt at resolution, and is already INTENSE, and this attempt truly feels like the call has come to the two pilots of the two shuttles, "˜Start the countdown.'
Quote
For you it is pluto that opposing the moon, and the opposition is almost exact by minutes: there is an unconscious desire coming out of your soul (pluto) to choose parents that will undermine, reject and "˜punish' you for who you ACTUALLY are....this is pretty much the bottomline of the confuson by the way...
OK, I grandly achieved THAT goal. I chose parents who would provide that service, but the effect seemed to be to create a STRONGER ego and not a weaker ego (my Soul survived my childhood). I read awhile ago a Buddhist idea that the important people in your life and yourself gather together before your own Incarnation into yet another body, and you put out The Call - "˜Anyone here love me enough to step forward, and cause me the hurt that I need in this upcoming life to help my Soul to grow?' And"¦up stepped my father, and right behind him my mother. It was THAT piece of information which allowed me to get past the hatred of my parents, especially my father. (Do you see now why I LOVE information? The right word at the right time is a well-crafted key placed in the hands of a chained man.) My brothers and sisters, however, could not unfortunately accept that thought and the healing for them that it implies. They hold their grief and anger close to their hearts, as once I did, and, when I tried to understand that, I came to the conclusion that perhaps I differ. And the difference seems to be: I no longer am willing to exist in this way! Either this very existence goes"¦ALL OF IT"¦or "I" go, and I was beginning to lose my caring as to which path was tread, for both eventually end up in the same place, as I saw it: An end to pain - through either the peace of simply being, or the emptiness of no longer being.
Quote
Why I am talking about this 'neptune language' here is because you have the ppp. in pisces and of course there is your natal moon, conj. with chiron (the deepest wound falls into not only pisces but into the 12th house, so every symbol in your chart is a double sword so to speak and the neptune/12th house/pissces symbol is extremely important in your chart. The emphasised confusion within your soul based on totally confused beliefs as what god is the Source is and how to serve it, how to be 'good enough' according to the Source of all things...what it 'wants' from you in other words........
"¦the acceleration led you to ever deeper searches within and on THAT level the deepest level you felt ever more utterly alone .....felt absolutely hopeless, absolute impossible (the paradox affect) and absolutely not good enough no matter which way you tried.....deep within the feeling of being so alone and so inferior everything became in the past a total paradox so to speak
Yes, not good enough to meet the perceived expectations of the internalized unwanted child I was (who must do always better!) which became (as I rose above the expectations of me as child) the iron-clad expectations of the internalized parent, which became (as I "˜healed' [so called] those parental expectations) the internalized God of the Roman Catholic tradition. Burning THAT internalization into ashes has been difficult, and now I see (THANK YOU!) that the smoke from those very flames of cleansing have darkened and tarnished my internal image of the Mother, Herself. She is forced by my ego-mind to carry the taint of the shape of the punishing intolerant God who was forced upon me in my youth at the hands of a punishing intolerant father. (I have never even considered such a thing before.) So, I call upon Her very rarely, and I shy away from the healing that I now can feel that I am due, since I have always felt the deep need to atone and an even deeper sense of absolute loneliness ("˜Oh why have you abandoned me, Great Mother,' from Soul, and the response from ego-mind, "˜YOU aren't good enough, we don't need Her anyway. YOU just need ME!' which has drowned out the gentle response from the Cosmic Mother. AND I LET IT!)
!! Did I mention that this IS INTENSE for me !!
This recent post of yours has lead me to the understanding that at the exact center of each natal chart is a Soul, with the oppositions criss-crossing across its Heart, with the squares surrounding it and boxing it in, with the trines rotating about it and bringing in various energies, with the inconjuncts pressing in close and limiting its space...
Quote
Much love and blessings to your sincere soul who has nothing wrong with it other than being so utterly confused and needs clarity and needs to unravel the truth (jupiter) about it's own confusion and the reason and results of that underlying confusion.
Thank you for allowing our Great Mother to speak to me through you.
Much Love and Blessings be heaped upon your helping Soul, Lia.
(The Great Goddess is smiling at Her children helping each other.)
Yes, I know, the journey is not over, or even barely begun.
(Ego-mind is saying, "˜Are we there yet?' "˜Can we GO now"¦?')
Thank you again for your kindness.
Besides (truly) helping me, this post will hopefully help other students who come to this site as well.
God'dess Bless You,
Stephen
PS. Upon rereading this, before posting, I can tell when Soul is responding, and when ego-mind is answering "¦
One, poetic and feeling and open, and the Other, strict and rigid and exacting.
I have never noticed that before.
(Is the pull of 'the One' symbolized by Venus conjunct the North Node, and 'the Other' by Saturn conjunct the South Node?)
One, and the Other. Soul, and its chosen Ego.
(Now boys, YOU PLAY NICE!)
!!! May all who read this find True Peace for their Soul !!!
Hi Stephan and everyone else,
As we proceed with Stephan's chart I would like to suggest that in order to fully understand the causative factors for what Stephan has shared in his biography that we try to discern the difference between natural guilt, and learned guilt as symbolized by his Saturn on his S.Node, conjunct Neptune's S.Node, and the S.Nodes in Capricorn in his 10th House. To unravel that dynamic, the differences between learned versus natural guilt and the psychological / behavioral consequences in a giant key in understanding Stephan's evolutionary and life situation.
Rad
Hi Stephen,
I know I'm not the only one here who is touched by your honesty and courage in sharing your story.
When I first saw your chart I saw what Rad is referring to, the natural guilt. Of course, I invite you, Rad, and anyone else to give honest feedback with regard to what I think I see in your chart. With Saturn on the SNode in Aquarius, ruled by Uranus in the 5th in Leo, I see a prior-life abuse of personal power (power available to you through the birth family: Uranus' ruler in Cancer) that impacted a great number of people (Saturn/SNode in 11th/Aquarius). The desire for self-annihilation that you have written of seems to me a response to the natural guilt within your Soul. Mars in Taurus opposing Neptune Full phase in Scorpio, in a case like this, suggests to me prior-life suicides as a result of the intense and deep internal guilt. (Mars-Neptune squaring Nodal axis: the guilt, SN conj Saturn, would become so intense.) With your Jupiter and Moon in Pisces/12th, it is the sense of falling short of your own ideals of behavior that has been causing or creating the self-destructive impulse.
But with Aries rising, Pluto new to the 6th house in Virgo, and Venus conj the NNode in Leo/5th, your Soul is ready to purge from itself the buildup of guilt that has stalled your Soul's evolution and perpetuated traumatic (Saturn conj SNode in Aquarius/11th) life experiences. Not only this, but the Soul now sees a need to give its experiences and acquired knowledge a social context, for the sake of healing others as you yourself continue to heal (Pluto in Virgo/6th in Full phase opposition to Moon in 12th/Pisces, and Pluto in Full phase opposition to Jupiter in 12th/Pisces; Mars-Neptune Full phase opposition). With Saturn in New phase conj to the SNode in Aquarius/11th, astrology would be a wonderful 'karma yoga' (Pluto in 6th/Virgo oppose Moon in Pisces/12th and oppose Jupiter in Pisces/12th) for your Soul. As you do this work on behalf of others, your Soul will move firmly into the 1st stage Spiritual evolutionary condition.
One of the most precious and profound teachings that Wolf has given is that of the imperfect Natural God. As a fellow Pluto in 6th/Virgo (opposing Mars in 12th, Full phase!), I can relate to a lot of what you've shared so far. The notion that the Natural God is compassionate, loving, and forgiving has helped me in my own struggle to free myself of both natural and learned guilt, and to finally move into the 1st stage Spiritual evolutionary condition in this very lifetime. Now that you've joined the EA community of like-minded Souls, I'm sure you will finally receive the healing your Soul needs, and that God wants to give you. I can share with you, from direct personal experience, that God is indeed loving, compassionate, forgiving.
I hope I haven't gone too far out on a limb here...I wanted to post about natural guilt earlier, but did the Virgo thing and held back! Thank you so much for sharing your experience with everyone here, Stephen...you are loved and supported, as you've already seen.
God bless,
Lesley
Quote from: Rad on Jun 14, 2009, 02:03 PM
Hi Stephan and everyone else,
As we proceed with Stephan's chart I would like to suggest that in order to fully understand the causative factors for what Stephan has shared in his biography that we try to discern the difference between natural guilt, and learned guilt as symbolized by his Saturn on his S.Node, conjunct Neptune's S.Node, and the S.Nodes in Capricorn in his 10th House. To unravel that dynamic, the differences between learned versus natural guilt and the psychological / behavioral consequences in a giant key in understanding Stephan's evolutionary and life situation.
Rad
Thank you so much Rad for providing the insight of direction, and for providing a safe space upon this forum for me (and others!) to ask for help.
As moderator, please remember, my Soul needs help, but my ego-mind wants nothing to do with it, so I often do not know when "˜enough is enough, already.' I am poised between cutting and running - and completely opening up. I seek to do neither, but open up
appropriately within such a forum to both receive healing and to display the process of such healing to those who would desire to apply the EA Paradigm, but have yet to understand its deeper meaning... and deepest Soul value.
I am keeping in mind: The watchword here is
appropriateness and
value for the seekers who come to this site.
Quote from: Lesley on June 14, 2009, 04:02:59 PM
Hi Stephen,
I know I'm not the only one here who is touched by your honesty and courage in sharing your story.
God bless,
Lesley
Thank you Lesley, so very much. I am between the two pulls on seeing these responses (of course!). The one is to accept the help, and walk into a community with acceptance of the community's acceptance, and the other is to succumb to the inner dialogue ("˜YOU silly whiner! This is not a personal website for you, back off, and let TRUE STUDENTS have access to their teachers!') For now, I am able to not listen to THAT voice... Why?...because I view this as a case study, which will provide active benefit to others even after the thread itself is no longer active.
Quote
When I first saw your chart I saw what Rad is referring to, the natural guilt. Of course, I invite you, Rad, and anyone else to give honest feedback with regard to what I think I see in your chart.
You are right in what you see. I have had several past lives force themselves forward and overwhelm/intrude into my current life. Additionally, I have been to a practitioner of the Deep Memory Process, and so have twice lived through previous deaths. One life reviewed in the DMP was that of a Viking with the ability to call down the very God of Fury himself through ritual and incantation, and he was allowed to completely overcome "˜me' in order to give me what 'I' then desired: invincibility and the ability to destroy human life. "˜I' smashed babies and put anyone in front of me to the axe"¦anyone and everyone. And...I went out of my way to put ANYONE in front of me!
In a life that intruded on its own several months ago, "˜I' was a man who repetitively violated the virtue of a multitude of women, and that in a society which shamed and then outcast these poor women. In another which arose just a few weeks ago, "˜I' was a fat monk in charge of a entire monastery of monks, and "˜I' convinced them that the privations of the flesh were the only way to God, and they should forego all but the least morsel, so that "˜I' would be able to eat all that "˜I' liked. Eventually, "˜I' convinced them to remain in their cells, and locked them all in, and starved them all to death"¦all of them. These are hard to face, for the memories of these lives are often more clear than the memories from this current life that I am living.
Quote
The desire for self-annihilation that you have written of seems to me a response to the natural guilt within your Soul. Mars in Taurus opposing Neptune Full phase in Scorpio, in a case like this, suggests to me prior-life suicides as a result of the intense and deep internal guilt. (Mars-Neptune squaring Nodal axis: the guilt, SN conj Saturn, would become so intense.) With your Jupiter and Moon in Pisces/12th, it is the sense of falling short of your own ideals of behavior that has been causing or creating the self-destructive impulse.
Additonally, I was 'cleared' by a Shaman/Reiki healer on 4/26/09, with the following (I have only added the lives which she saw that coincide with what you see in the chart). She wrote:
1) Past life in which you were a orphaned girl living in a farming community. Lived with terror, abused, feeling completely helpless, overworked, abandoned, lonely. The community you were living with used you as a scapegoat, caused you to kill yourself.
4) In this past life you were an early Christian, you saw most members of you community killed, felt abandoned by God; hiding with your group, then you became spiritually dead, empty, first it was spiritual suicide then death.
She told me that she needed to close my third eye, for it had opened, and that was why the past lives were becoming so intrusive. Now, it is just in dreams at night (like it used to be). No, not every night. I try to seal my Aura each night before I sleep now. Still, there is leakage...
Quote
With Saturn in New phase conj to the SNode in Aquarius/11th, astrology would be a wonderful 'karma yoga' (Pluto in 6th/Virgo oppose Moon in Pisces/12th and oppose Jupiter in Pisces/12th) for your Soul. As you do this work on behalf of others, your Soul will move firmly into the 1st stage Spiritual evolutionary condition.
For a reason I have been unable to explain to my wife, or even myself, I KNOW that I WILL do this work on behalf of others, not so that my "Soul will move firmly into the 1st stage Spiritual", but because I well know the exquisite pain of a Soul unable to move forward, unable to retreat into the (assumed) comfort of a previous method of living, and unable to resolve the tension between the two. However, truly, thank you Lesley for a confirmation that the possible peace of a Soul resolution could await me, even if temporarily, for I guess that I assume the 1st Spiritual will bring at least some small peace"¦for at least some small time. (Of course, the above statement assumes that I will be able to internalize the multi-faceted concepts of the EA Paradigm thoroughly enough to have it come through me to provide healing for others.)
I have to admit that I do not readily see the connections between the symbols in the chart and your deductions, which is definitely NOT to say that your analysis is not right on or doesn't have value. It is"¦and it does.
Is there a "middle sentence", so to speak, between the symbols and the points which you raise, which can clarify those points, or will clarity simply come through further intensive studying? I would ask that same question of any EA Practitioner. I have downloaded the excellent keywords list which Steve the administrator of this site has posted in the resources section. Is there a clue in that document to the way that you are able to read various meanings out of the same symbols? I am studying the archetypal meanings in Deva's excellent book, but I still have quite a long ways to go.
Quote
One of the most precious and profound teachings that Wolf has given is that of the imperfect Natural God.
Do you have time to write more on this concept? Maybe even starting a new thread about this idea of an imperfect and Natural God? I am certain it would help all who come to this site to have a greater and more detailed understanding of the underlying concepts which support the EA Paradigm.
Quote
"¦I can relate to a lot of what you've shared so far. The notion that the Natural God is compassionate, loving, and forgiving has helped me in my own struggle to free myself of both natural and learned guilt, and to finally move into the 1st stage Spiritual evolutionary condition in this very lifetime.
I am proud of you. This work is not easy. Even when you find your path leads to the right door, recognizing that door is not automatic, and opening that door and casting aside the torch of ego-centered existence in order to be allowed to enter is NOT easy, for you enter into a dark interior!
Quote
Now that you've joined the EA community of like-minded Souls, I'm sure you will finally receive the healing your Soul needs, and that God wants to give you. I can share with you, from direct personal experience, that God is indeed loving, compassionate, forgiving.
I am willing to "˜go the distance' to achieve healing. Once, I was broken and didn't know it, and then, I thought I was whole, and liked the feeling, but it was mere ego-inflation. I seek to truly be whole, and, as I try to ascend this mountain of Soul Evolution, be allowed to stop, turn around, and help others up, so that they can climb past me, or stand next to me and reach out a hand to others, as well.
Thank you for stopping in your climb, and reaching back to give me a hand, and helping me up the rocky uneven path towards where you now stand.
I will stand by you, and all of those who truly practice the JWG Method through the EA Paradigm, and reach out a hand, as well, when I am able to internalize this Paradigm.
Quote
I hope I haven't gone too far out on a limb here...I wanted to post about natural guilt earlier, but did the Virgo thing and held back!
Oh no, quite the contrary. Your post is knowledgeable, on-target and very very welcome.
Quote
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with everyone here, Stephen...you are loved and supported, as you've already seen.
You are welcome (I hope that it benefits all who come here and read this), and it is very hard for me to accept that second part. It is surprising to me to receive support, and very difficult to allow. These posts are my Soul drawing a line in the sand, and pushing the ego-mind across the line (to the sound of too too much oh-so-clever protests from ego-mind, and reasons, and "˜wait, wait a minute, if you would just listen, you would see that I am right, you dont understand, I can explain...' "˜Oh, enough already,' from Soul.)
Thank you again Rad, and thank you Lesley.
God'dess Bless,
Stephen
Hi Everyone again,
Thanks Lesley for your input of course it contains a lot of truth! In itself everything you said is true in a way, but I would like to add to it and point out why this aspect is only one part of the truth relative to the soul"˜s evolutionary journey. What I am trying to say is that the soul is 1) dealing with a double skipped step (mars neptune, 2nd 8th) and also the soul is dealing with an underlying paradox relative to it"˜s own soul level consciousness. (saturn in aq. and in 11th: EVERYTHING in this chart is defined by the paradox itself! This is the current STRUCTURE of the soul's consciousness and it confused the heck out of the soul.) Unless we understand the paradoxical nature of the soul and unravel the reasons for the skipped steps we (in my view) can't have an objective picture of this chart and of Stephen's soul issues.
So considering the above lets try to understand the nature of of the "˜skipped steps' and lets try to unravel from the symbols what and around when the soul experienced which resulted in the underlying extreme tension of the skipped steps (mars, neptune, taurus scorpio, I believe we can agree from these symbols that the tension is at minimum EXTREMELY INTENSE, and it is so for a very long time; i.e. mars is moving slowly out of exact square so it has been so for a long time, while neptune is still only 1 degree apart of exact square so this part of the skipped steps is still extremely intense (scorpio, 8th house I guess we don't need intensity more than that :-) )
Also I'd suggest to see saturn and capricorn with a double view; it isn't only guilt, it is also SOCIETY, the very symbol of our natural SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY that we owe to the social whole that we belong. There have been societies before the patriarchy and saturn in those societies didn't mean distortion, did it? Yet it still meant society and responsibility and of course based on that inner social awareness it also correlated to natural guilt IF we done something that was not okay from a social point of view, if it was not responsible and didn't consider others in the right way. Saturn, capricorn is the sign after sag; when natural law is the underlying law for a social group saturn capr. simply means the MANIFESTATION of natural law within the time and space reality where we live. When that is the case, cancer the natural process of maturation will lead from natural cancer into natural capricorn. The cancerian 'shelve' will step by step broaden and eventually in adulthood will include the whole = the manifested creation in the time and space reality including but not exclusive to the human community one is living in. The concept of the 'nuclear family' is a patriarchal concept. It was nonexistent before. Children, all children were raised by the whole community, and all adults were responsible (capr.) for all the children (cancer) in a natural society. This way of life (we can call this tradition, the oldest tradition on earth relative to the human species) have been passed on, (conditioned) gradually to all children so all would extend their notion of belonging (cancer and its protective shelve) outwardly including the whole capricornian social SHARED way of living.....the boundaries of cancer right around the self, will be matured to include everybody and everything in the manifested creation but of course limited by WHAT the person can consciously embrace: so the land it lived on, how far the group has wondered into that land, the animals plants etc. that it encountered. So it is limited by the perception of the conscious consciousness but what has been consciously perceived that is all included as 'family' with a sense of belonging to that socially experienced and shared reality. Of course utterly different approach relative to our social realities but this is what has been conditioned into children within natural societies before the patriarchy.
Why I am talking about this in details is because obviously we need to understand Stephen's saturn in a PARADOXICAL way, (11th and aq!!) for that's the key to understand both, it's consciousness structure and the issues that traumatised Stephen's soul and caused the double paradoxical skipped steps; equalling to choices the soul made that indeed cased harm and hurt to others too. But to me the question is why?
Capr. and saturn is extremely important in this chart of course, not just because saturn conj. to s.node node but because it is in the 11th and because capr. is on the 10th cusp. The s.node of saturn, pluto and jupiter are in the 10th. While the s.node of uranus (the s.node of the ruler of the moon's s.node!) is in the 9th house in sag.
In short, all this correlates to the time of the beginning of the patriarchy and how that time and events impacted of the soul's evolutionary journey RELATIVE TO THE CONSCIOUSNESS LEVEL the soul was in at those times. From the symbols relative to the skipped steps (taurus, scorpio) the impact is around the time of cca. 6000 years backward...(after the Atlantis trauma and in the Egyptian age as the secretly brought patriarchal elitist "˜norms' has been slowly but intensely (scorpio) took over the earlier matriarchal beliefs. Of course that's just one time and space reality the soul was a part of but in general what I see had happened was the impact of the CHANGE relative to the social values and norms right at the time when the soul was re-integrating into society after the 2nd individuated stage, so around the beginning of the 3rd individuated stage appears to correlate with the transition of the patriarchy. Within the 3rd individuated the individuation process completes in the soul RELATIVE TO IT'S OWN INDIVIDUAL BEING, so in other words, the individuation will continue but in a totally different way later on, the relative self importance and self actualisation relative to JUST the soul itself peaks in the 3rd individuated to then diminish in the 1st spiritual when the soul consciously realises the Source and compare to that it realises it's own unimportance.
As I see this chart I would say the soul's natural journey through the 3rd individuated with ever more deeper sense of confusion (neptune square s.node) and because of that confusion (not understanding what the heck is the problem why the soul feels guilty when it is trying to do what it thought was serving the social whole, what the social whole SAID it needed from it's individuated quiet brilliant intellect)
The s.node of uranus in the 9th in sag: the paradox started when groups of people (uranus) has suddenly and quiet abruptly changed the beliefs systems and started to "˜teach' (well quit violently I might add) the new paradoxical "˜truths' of the patriarchy....in Egypt for example this lead to the so called pharaoh age, who as always gained their "˜divine power' from the women, usually from their mother...yet they secretly (scorpio) replaced the women, the very "˜divine' origin and many times secretly killed them...so that they now became the male god figures and claimed and abused the power and passed on a new belief system, that was at first kind of mixed with some of the old elements so that the people will accept it, but the underlying agenda was of course to fundamentally mislead and influence (scorpio) the people and build new social norms, values, taboos and right and wrongs....
At those early times of the transition the soul was actually a woman (asteroid. lilt conj pluto, conj. lucifer, WHILE that lucifer also conj. black moon lilith! So the healing of the original female principle in this chart is happening via unravelling what was the evil trick at the first place!...pluto conj. lilith the soul have come to a full circle so to speak...it all started as a WOMAN and not as a man.......next to this juno, ceres, vesta conj. in cancer in the 4th ruled by moon in 12th conj. chiron; the DEEPEST wound of the soul happened to it's belief system and happened as a woman...it all happened to it's feminine/feeling/emotional principle....and the deepest confusion happened via giving something totally unconditionally (chiron in pisces) as a woman (moon) outside of the visible "˜scenery' (12th house) and out of some kind of some kind of confused belief (12th house) thinking believing (12th house) that it is a service (6th house virgo lilith)..service to whom? Her children.... in that age her beloved sons....
The first application of the uranus in the 5th is started with the unexpected "˜reward' (uranus in leo in the 5th) for the gift (5th house, leo) the soul could give at those times: something it inherited indeed: and that was the divine origin AS A WOMAN (ruled by sun in cancer, which is ruled by moon in the 12th, which is ruled by neptune in 8th..so back to the origin, the very reason for the skipped step at the very first place)
The unexpected "˜reward' was actually being murdered by it's own son, or sons, or their closest friends after the gift has been passed on...the divinity so to speak (not only Egypt, every early patriarchy started with BEING BORN out of a woman who was considered as a direct descendandt of the divine....it is still present in evey mythology, and for example the judeo-chrisitan trandition, why on earth still today the jewis tradition, one of the most patriarchal religion considers one to be truly jew only if their MOTHER was a jew...not their father...interesting paradox isn't it?? )
Anyhow, so again the soul experienced the first trauma and the first and deepest shock as a mother (vesta, ceres, juno: who have been putting itself into the position out of love, out of supporting what the sons and the male friends of the son wanted, to make the son socially accepted 'divine' by making him equal first partner, and then elevate the son into the role of being the 'king' with full power during the transition. Sacrifising herself (moon in 12th) and giving unconditionally this way...that's what they asked from the soul and it has given it out of love and behand the scenes out of deceit.........The beliefs and the total trust the soul had at that time have been fundamentally betrayed for it believed that this new social order that those elitist sons of the (once) leading women wanted was something good ...the soul believed what they said and taught to the poeple was true....the instant unexpected death by the hand of the most beloved (son and partner) was such a trauma that it broke the soul heart even in death. It not just broke it it is like a bomb (uranus) in the middle of the heart (leo) by it's most beloved son and lover (leo and 5th house) that blew its heart into pieces....The serving of the social whole became serving men who wanted the power at all cost, and in the soul's own history it started with those the soul loved most (Uranus in the 5th, and in leo: trauma to heart by those one passionately loves....+ neptune in 8th house, there is such an IDEALISED projection onto those the soul loves and merges with and it has been of course sexualised ...the other issue about this is the sexual karma to top the whole thing......for in fact many the soul have merged with had ulterior agendas and because of the pisces moon/chiron/jup thing those others have been extremely deceptive with hidden ulterior, and eventually evil agendas)
The confusion and devastation of that kind of death experiences caused the soul to not even WANTING TO SEE CLEARLY (moon in the 12th) FOR IT HURT EMOTIONALLY SO MUCH and it could not understand why on earth this happened....the soul thought it must have done something wrong at the first place in order to "˜deserve' this horrible death by the person (or persons) it loved most....let's imagine the agony and the confusion of that death of a woman having been mercilessly murdered by its beloved son to whom the soul have given everything from the deepest soul level...out of love (cancer, leo, scorpio neptune in an absolute way) it put itself to the side, and allowed it's intellectual genius to be used by the son and it's friends....for the purposes of what the son said....this kind of betrayed love is also signified in venus opp. saturn in 11th: the very love (venus in leo) was actually opposite to what the soul's overall consciousness sensed it is serving the group/society yet the love (venus ruled by cancer sun) appeared more important for it came out of a motherly feeling and in the same time served the soul's emotional needs of receiving love (leo and 5th house) for the feedback it desired (from the son and it's group, uranus in leo) the soul has chosen to serve them, (lilith in virgo in the 6th) and this was of course mixed with the 3rd individuated soul's natural feeling of not really needing to be a part of society for it is already above the consensus it is enough for the soul to share what it can give without necessarily being on the stage of society....
If all this happens in natural society, the story of course would be totally different. But it wasn't so of course this story above is just one possible life time TO BEGIN WITH THE PARADOX which lead to the later lives of the anger, confusion and going back and froth endless times between the s.node and the n.node node and not being able to find solution....sinking deeper and deeper either in anger either in atonement.
Yet all this started with a fundamental trauma of being the part of the paradox change of matriarchy leading into patriarchy and changing the very social norms that within natural society would have lead the soul to reintegrate and use it's abilities in truly useful ways for the social whole. With this paradoxical switch the soul have served the patriarchy at the very first place WITHOUT knowing it serves something evil..... Out of wanting to be of service,(lilith) out of wanting to serve society, s.node of moon conj. saturn, in the 11th; for a truly humanity minded consciousness (aq) which does not wanted at the beginning any particular personal gain from it....at that time the soul believed (neptune, 12th house) that it was true (jupiter conj. chiron) and it wounded the soul in the possible deepest way....
(Will continue in another post)
(Contiued from above)
This kind of scenario have repeated a few times in some ways in the very early stages of patriarchy, and then as a reaction (mars) the anger started to grow because of the total confusion and the will to live, to survive (mars in taurus in the 2nd) hit back. How it hit back causing another skipped step is what you Lesley pointed out in general. But I think it is really important to understand the reasons for that period, the confusion, and being cheated out via total illusions (neptune and 12th house) on one's own soul so to speak, being cheated out BY LOVE (leo ruled by sun in cancer) a the first place. The feminine principle in the soul have been so deeply confused and traumatised...also there is a paradoxical effort trying to alienate oneself from it's own conscious consciousness (sat. in aq.) alienate oneself from what one consciously knows....
The reason for that lies in the opposition of venus in leo and saturn: the outer side of venus is 7th house and libra in this chart: so it is ruled by leo venus: the projection of leo will transform into seeing others in this way: they ARE (must be) loveable in order for me to receive any love I must accept them then juno in the 4th in cancer: embrace them....while saturn opp. venus what one consciously knows is actually OPPOSITE to what one feels...so lets detach lets put aside lets alienate what I actually know and lets switch it around maybe I am wrong (pluto in 6th and in virgo, doubt...lilith there it all came from an ancient desire to be of service without self importance....
To me, this chart this soul consciousness is the walking paradox itself....I really think it is demonstrating the heart of the great drama of human evolution, how our most idealistic and best intentions can lead to the most horrible experiences simply because we didn't know enough and totally misunderstood the events that happened that we experienced...than relative to what we understood were trying to improve something that may lead to even more horror, and than our anger and confusion lead to make choices (that in the very same time always served our specific evolutionary needs, however it could serve only within the whatever understanding our soul had at any point of time)
So in this case the soul's acceleration to the 1st spiritual started by the very traumas it experienced in the 3rd individuated and it kind of rushed the soul ahead in paradoxical ways....
Eventually the soul was trying to cut off and alienate (uranus) from its own heart (leo, 5th house) in order to survive (taurus mars square to uranus in leo) and that in itself of course in a paradoxical way (uranus) also traumatised the soul....then it realised survival without a feeling/loving heart worth NOTHING at all...so then it wanted to kill itself ....
When it loved it typically loved the kind of people who blow it's heart to pieces....(uranus in leo, 5th AND neptune in 8th, in scorp.) the ulterior agendas coming out of the veils at one point causing such disillusionment (neptune) and heartbreak (uranus) that again it just didn't seem to worth living OR caused such anger that the soul totally shut down (mars in taurus) and didn't want to know anything but what it can do to survive via utilising the whatever resources it had....
All this goes back to the underlying utter confusion about what's wrong and right....sun ruler of uranus and venus is ruled by 12th moon, conj, chiron and jup...and of course conj. the ppp. the final evolutionary goal...yet this can not happen unless the soul unravels the whole extent of the skipped steps: neptune points back to the s.node, mars points to the n.node as the resolution point. The confusion started in the past, in the far past and the soul has to go backward before it can go forward.....to embrace and understand how it bought into the "˜new' rules and norms of the patriarchy, and yet originally bought into it out of pure intention...but that intention was abused and mislead by making the soul believe (neptune) that serving the hidden evil intention of those the soul loved and wanted to serve, would actually serve the social whole....while nothing was farther from the truth. It served evil without knowing it....reason being the upside down reality (saturn as the very manifestation of the underlying paradox in this chart! the whole reality structure the soul perceived for a very long time was based on a total upside down paradox!) coming out of it and the skipped steps relative to neptune would apply the saturn symbol's polarity: what society REALLY needs from the soul, and giving that from the heart with love. As for the other skipped step with mars: this would correlate to the other end of the paradox, can described by placing venus into 11th and aq: applying objectivity to both sides of venus how it perceives oneself and OTHERS. For then through the "˜eyes' of an aq. embraced venus the objective reality of others will occur before it ends in heartache and trauma....and seeing oneself as a totally EQUAL no more and no less than anybody else WITHIN the paradoxical reality of the "˜maya' (aquarius!) that we all are different and yet we are just as the rainbow: having the same light in essence yet via the aq. prism, we appear as infinite shades of colors in any mixture...it is the rainbow (maya) that confuses us and yet it is the rainbow that leads us back to the underlying unity within diversity....
I believe this is one of the most important lessons that your soul is trying to learn via all the soul- and heart breaking paradoxes your soul went through just to realise (via fully entering into the 1st spiritual) that it is all okay...every soul makes mistakes, every soul has been confused, every soul has experienced the total desperation of anguish and horror about BOTH OTHERS AND ONESELF! There is no way otherwise....those who believe there is another way are still in neptunian illusion....
so we are all equal (deep within your consciousness there is some conscious knowledge about this underlying equality...saturn in aq.)
In this life your soul is culminating all the beliefs that the soul had in the past, and trying to realise the real Source...trying to fully enter into the spiritual state via conscious realisation of what the Source really is about....
On that note one of the most important lesson to learn is not only to recover the paradoxical skipped steps but also embracing them in a way that your soul can really learn to FORGIVE within the embraced fundamental equality that your soul suspected but was confused about (neptune's pointing back to s.node and saturn) To learn to forgive (pisces) to everyone for their mistakes YOURSELF INCLUDED! It is all about the substance (consciousness) experiencing itself via the experiences it creates for itself....a very confusing term but that's exactly what we do :-)....and at the end in the TRUE NATURAL GOD/ESS' EYES we are all equal and equally loved....unconditionally....the mistakes of every soul are totally equal in god/ess' eyes...why? Because our mistakes are our greatest teachers...we can't learn from intellectual knowledge we only learn via experiences...
One of the most important thing about this (to me) is the simple knowledge (gemini) that everything has another side...this leads to the higher aspect of mercury/gemini : aquarius...the paradox itself....
and the paradox leads back to the where it came from: the source of the paradox is the Source of all things, god/ess itself...to help and to teach us about our OWN paradoxical nature as a subjective consciousness, soul....we learn objectivity via learning about our own subjectivity.....and via that we can understand other soul's subjectivity and can see them and ourselves ever more objectively at the end...and that's what helps us to get ever closer to the ultimate truths, the ultimate meaning, the ultimate "˜goal' of life...realising what' behind it all...neptune, 12th, pisces...god/ess itself with eternal love waiting for us with open arms at the end of the rocky journey....and that's where your soul is heading of course to embrace the natural god, to culminate the false believes embrace, understand and forgive all the consequences but understand and embrace it with LOVE and COMPASSION instead of rejection and judgment towards your own soul....
Well at least that's how I see it....so again I agree to a certain degree what Lesley have seen in the chart, what I am saying is just that IT IS NOT THE WHOLE picture, it is but a consequence (confused and paradoxical consequence) of what happened before....
I hope this make sense?
Blessings
Lia
Hi Stephen,
It is so wonderful to see you moving firmly into the EA community by following your Soul's desire to find the healing, support, and commiseration that it needs. So many of us can relate to your experiences. Because of your natural compassion, sincerity, and purity of intention (Moon/Jupiter/Chiron in 12th/Pisces, oppose Pluto in Virgo/6th), you are a natural vehicle for healing work, as you already sense within yourself. I know how I feel when I read your words, and how beautifully your intention comes through them -- your Soul speaks directly to others' Souls. I hope that you will consider doing something with writing (3rd house Sun, 3rd house Mercury in Gemini trine Saturn/South Node in Aquarius/11th, Pluto in Virgo/6th ruled by the Mercury) as you continue to heal, and progressively work to heal others as well.
As I mentioned before, I too am a 6th house Pluto in Virgo (learned/internalized/institutionalized guilt, as through monotheistic religions like Catholicism/Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), and I've also got lots of Capricorn/Saturn (natural guilt for misuse of personal abilities in prior lives). I have felt, for many lifetimes now, that I do not deserve to be healed, that God wouldn't want me back, that God somehow abandoned me...and yet, like you, I have a natural desire to help others, to see others succeed and find peace and happiness (Pluto-Mars opposition, Full phase, with Mars in 12th. Mars also trines Neptune, 1st qtr phase). I've had to use my rational Virgo/6th house Moon to ask myself, "Why, if I want others to find joy, do I not want that for myself? Is this really the way God wants it -- that everyone else deserves and receives healing and forgiveness except me?" The narcissism within myself was exposed in an almost humorous way, at that point. Because everybody on the planet has screwed up, at some point(s). In the eyes of God, I believe, no one's mistakes are any worse than anyone else's...it is all for the sake of learning, growth, and evolution. Even with the mistakes made, it is a really beautiful path we walk to ever more knowledge and direct experience of God.
Natural guilt is a very natural reaction to actions we took that violated Natural Law: natural guilt (which correlates with Saturn, 10th house, and Capricorn) for violating Natural Law is thus part of Natural Law itself. It is through this natural guilt that we are realigned with Natural Law, and with God. Natural guilt thus serves a very important purpose. But it is when the Soul gets stuck on that natural guilt (or learned guilt....any kind of guilt), that our evolution stalls. This is part of the skipped steps in your chart, with Mars in Taurus in 2nd oppose Neptune in Scorpio in 8th, squaring the nodal axis in Aquarius/11th and Leo/5th, and with Mars-Neptune squaring that natal Saturn as well. Neptune in Scorpio/8th is truly a battle for the Soul between the dual urges of regeneration/metamorphosis and total destruction. Opposed to Mars in gibbous phase (gibbous phase correlates to extreme self-criticism, which can induce self-loathing), there will be spiritual crises and crises within the Soul itself (Scorpio/8th) to induce self-knowledge so that the Soul can make necessary adjustments within itself, which will allow the social role (which correlates to the Full phase opposition at 180 degrees) to be fulfilled in the appropriate way, in concert with Divine Will (Mars oppose Neptune and sq Nodes. Mars and Pluto, as rulers of the solar plexus chakra, correlate to our will, others' will, and Divine Will).
The notion of karma yoga, or right/appropriate work on behalf of God'dess that is by definition of natural benefit to ourselves and others, is implicated in the Earth triplicity: Virgo (service), Saturn (social position/role), and Taurus (manifestation), but it is most explicitly reflected in the 6th/12th house axis: work (Virgo) on behalf of God (12th), which of course is done on behalf of others. Karma yoga becomes a natural path of evolution (for the self, AND for Universal need) near the end of the 3rd stage of the Individuated condition, which is where your Soul finds itself in the present lifetime. Mars in Taurus/2nd, Pluto in Virgo/6th, Saturn on SNode, and Pisces Moon/Jupiter/Chiron conj Pluto's polarity point in Pisces/12th, suggest that working on behalf of others will naturally help to heal you, and that is more than okay -- it is necessary. Karma yoga is simply the right or appropriate application of natural gifts and talents given us by God. This naturally leads to a work function and social role that evolves the Soul itself, others' Souls, and the Creation as a whole...all by our own small efforts, one step at a time (Pluto in 6th/Virgo).
The notion of the beautiful, wonderful, imperfect Natural God is a great idea for a new thread. God, as Creator of all, is the origin and source of the imperfection we personify and experience. Therefore, ultimately (Pisces/12th), there is nothing to forgive or be forgiven for. Judgment (a function of Saturn/10th house/Capricorn), especially unnecessary and excessive judgment, falls away very naturally when we find -- first through intellectual concept, then as direct experience -- that God Itself is an evolving force. Patriarchal religions (another function of Saturn/Capricorn/10th house) enforce the mistaken notion of a "˜perfect' God that sits in judgment in a detached and punitive manner. The underlying human motive of power, control, and authority, is also reflected in that Capricorn archetype.
All that happens or occurs through application of personal will always and only occurs within the broader context of Divine Will. Thus, we don't need to be saved or redeemed by some "˜perfect' god in order to find healing and peace; we need only to redeem and save our concept/definition of God, in order to find the healing and peace that are our birthright.
Stephen, I would like to close by saying that you are already providing so much healing and service to all, simply by posting your chart and sharing your life experiences. I know that I, as an EA practitioner, am extremely humbled by your presence on this board. Your purity of intention and sincerity of purpose are so beautiful to behold. I hope you can see this within yourself, because you shine very brightly, and quite naturally, despite your inner experience of yourself right now, at this point in time. Your current concept of yourself will change....
Just keep going...in the Virgo/6th house manner of your Pluto (and mine!), healing comes one small (but profound) step at a time.
(As always, I welcome any feedback you or others may have...I would never consider myself any kind of ultimate authority, but what I can do is share my direct experiences on my own path to healing -- and I am forever happy and blessed if I am able do so.)
God'dess bless,
Lesley
...actually, it's a Full phase opposition between your Mars and Neptune (I knew that! I posted it in my last reply!)...the notion of right work through giving your own experiences a relevant social context is thus underscored. (Sorry!)
Quote from: Lia on Jun 15, 2009, 07:10 AM
Hi Everyone again,
Thanks Lesley for your input of course it contains a lot of truth! In itself everything you said is true in a way, but I would like to add to it and point out why this aspect is only one part of the truth relative to the soul"˜s evolutionary journey. What I am trying to say is that the soul is 1) dealing with a double skipped step (mars neptune, 2nd 8th) and also the soul is dealing with an underlying paradox relative to it"˜s own soul level consciousness. (saturn in aq. and in 11th: EVERYTHING in this chart is defined by the paradox itself! This is the current STRUCTURE of the soul's consciousness and it confused the heck out of the soul.) Unless we understand the paradoxical nature of the soul and unravel the reasons for the skipped steps we (in my view) can't have an objective picture of this chart and of Stephen's soul issues.
So considering the above lets try to understand the nature of of the "˜skipped steps' and lets try to unravel from the symbols what and around when the soul experienced which resulted in the underlying extreme tension of the skipped steps (mars, neptune, taurus scorpio, I believe we can agree from these symbols that the tension is at minimum EXTREMELY INTENSE, and it is so for a very long time; i.e. mars is moving slowly out of exact square so it has been so for a long time, while neptune is still only 1 degree apart of exact square so this part of the skipped steps is still extremely intense (scorpio, 8th house I guess we don't need intensity more than that :-) )
Thank you very much Lia for this continuation of your analysis. I can tell that you have placed large amounts of both your time and energy into this analysis, and I will respond in kind, by placing my energy and time into attempting an understanding of the details of what you have written, and to providing feedback in those ways which I can. I can only validate what I know, and feel. So, to that end, I have my chart in the one hand and your analysis in the other, so to speak.
Honestly, I find that the staying power of my mind is waning when I am trying to focus on these postings and this issue. It is as if my ego-mind has realized that if it withdraws its energies, then I will somehow be unable to understand what is being said, and so will be unable to act upon it. (One of the very unpleasant side-effects of the "˜fugues' is a rapid decrease in my IQ. I am often literally unable to understand something which I know that before the "˜fugue' hit I was able to not only understand by absolutely penetrate mentally.) Please forgive me if my posts are uneven, or if I do not respond to each line in each paragraph. I have printed this post, and will reread it many times as I internalize the message.
Oh yes, intense"¦yet the intensity had in the past in too many times been dimmed by self-abuse (substance abuse, and abuse through excess amounts of physical exercise, among other types) and the absolute negation and numbing of my own heart and feelings (as you stated in your previous post). However, this process intruded without my ability to dim it when (about two years ago) I started to follow exercises to open my heart. This attempt to open my heart, which I had suddenly felt was my right as an emotional being, had the unalterable side-effect of opening the door once again to the constant seesaw of this flip-flopping tension, me against me. This continued, but then for some reason began to become even more intense just at the turning of this year. Unstoppably unalterably intense"¦
Quote
Why I am talking about this in details is because obviously we need to understand Stephen's saturn in a PARADOXICAL way, (11th and aq!!) for that's the key to understand both, it's consciousness structure and the issues that traumatised Stephen's soul and caused the double paradoxical skipped steps; equalling to choices the soul made that indeed cased harm and hurt to others too. But to me the question is why?
Yes, both
why? and
how (to achieve a healing for this choice, once made, and still, on some level, being made again and again)"¦?
Quote
At those early times of the transition the soul was actually a woman (asteroid. lilt conj pluto, conj. lucifer, WHILE that lucifer also conj. black moon lilith! So the healing of the original female principle in this chart is happening via unravelling what was the evil trick at the first place!...pluto conj. lilith the soul have come to a full circle so to speak...it all started as a WOMAN and not as a man.......next to this juno, ceres, vesta conj. in cancer in the 4th ruled by moon in 12th conj. chiron; the DEEPEST wound of the soul happened to it's belief system and happened as a woman...it all happened to it's feminine/feeling/emotional principle....and the deepest confusion happened via giving something totally unconditionally (chiron in pisces) as a woman (moon) outside of the visible "˜scenery' (12th house) and out of some kind of some kind of confused belief (12th house) thinking believing (12th house) that it is a service (6th house virgo lilith)..service to whom? Her children.... in that age her beloved sons....
The first application of the uranus in the 5th is started with the unexpected "˜reward' (uranus in leo in the 5th) for the gift (5th house, leo) the soul could give at those times: something it inherited indeed: and that was the divine origin AS A WOMAN (ruled by sun in cancer, which is ruled by moon in the 12th, which is ruled by neptune in 8th..so back to the origin, the very reason for the skipped step at the very first place)
The unexpected "˜reward' was actually being murdered by it's own son, or sons, or their closest friends after the gift has been passed on...the divinity so to speak (not only Egypt, every early patriarchy started with BEING BORN out of a woman who was considered as a direct descendandt of the divine....it is still present in evey mythology, and for example the judeo-chrisitan trandition, why on earth still today the jewis tradition, one of the most patriarchal religion considers one to be truly jew only if their MOTHER was a jew...not their father...interesting paradox isn't it?? )
Anyhow, so again the soul experienced the first trauma and the first and deepest shock as a mother (vesta, ceres, juno: who have been putting itself into the position out of love, out of supporting what the sons and the male friends of the son wanted, to make the son socially accepted 'divine' by making him equal first partner, and then elevate the son into the role of being the 'king' with full power during the transition. Sacrifising herself (moon in 12th) and giving unconditionally this way...that's what they asked from the soul and it has given it out of love and behand the scenes out of deceit.........The beliefs and the total trust the soul had at that time have been fundamentally betrayed for it believed that this new social order that those elitist sons of the (once) leading women wanted was something good ...the soul believed what they said and taught to the poeple was true....the instant unexpected death by the hand of the most beloved (son and partner) was such a trauma that it broke the soul heart even in death. It not just broke it it is like a bomb (uranus) in the middle of the heart (leo) by it's most beloved son and lover (leo and 5th house) that blew its heart into pieces....The serving of the social whole became serving men who wanted the power at all cost, and in the soul's own history it started with those the soul loved most (Uranus in the 5th, and in leo: trauma to heart by those one passionately loves....+ neptune in 8th house, there is such an IDEALISED projection onto those the soul loves and merges with and it has been of course sexualised ...the other issue about this is the sexual karma to top the whole thing......for in fact many the soul have merged with had ulterior agendas and because of the pisces moon/chiron/jup thing those others have been extremely deceptive with hidden ulterior, and eventually evil agendas)
This is an incredible analysis Lia. Brilliant"¦This has echoes in events in my life which would take awhile to explain. However, the short version: The Egyptian link is very right on, for I have lived a life as a Priestess of the Mysteries, and know this only because that life was awoken when I was present during an intense retelling of the Myth of Isis and Osiris. In the retelling, I was overwhelmed by a flood of energy which impacted against my chest, and caused me to feel/act out/relive the entire myth, even parts of it which I did not previously know, and those in advance of the mythteller! I say this only to validate your reading with an event from my experience, for in and of itself it has but little meaning.
Quote from: Lia on Jun 15, 2009, 07:13 AM
To me, this chart this soul consciousness is the walking paradox itself....I really think it is demonstrating the heart of the great drama of human evolution, how our most idealistic and best intentions can lead to the most horrible experiences simply because we didn't know enough and totally misunderstood the events that happened that we experienced...than relative to what we understood were trying to improve something that may lead to even more horror, and than our anger and confusion lead to make choices (that in the very same time always served our specific evolutionary needs, however it could serve only within the whatever understanding our soul had at any point of time)
So in this case the soul's acceleration to the 1st spiritual started by the very traumas it experienced in the 3rd individuated and it kind of rushed the soul ahead in paradoxical ways....
Eventually the soul was trying to cut off and alienate (uranus) from its own heart (leo, 5th house) in order to survive (taurus mars square to uranus in leo) and that in itself of course in a paradoxical way (uranus) also traumatised the soul....then it realised survival without a feeling/loving heart worth NOTHING at all...so then it wanted to kill itself ....
Yes, and more, for the wish of the Soul-death came out of the desperate desire to end the insanity of the confusion of numbness, and nothing to live for"¦and feeling too much, and too much heart-pain to live through. Actually, the speed of that has now accelerated. It was only a bad day or three in every week or two, but since beginning reading these responses to the original posting, every day now flips back and forth between the extremes. Is it possible that just reading this information "˜loosens' some aspect of this issue? For example, the information above of a son once killing me as his mother fills me with remorse, and I got almost physically ill and yet was energized with a strange dark energy at the same time. I had to run outside and work myself into a sweat with a staff, then I rollerbladed with a frenzy, and then my son and I played first rollerblade tag, and then we played soccer. Now, I am with a headache, neck ache and pain in my stomach, and a strange dizzy shifting of the horizon, as if I am on a ship in calm waters yet with a gentle swell. This seemed to have started the instant I read that section in your post, Lia. Is this the path to healing these "˜fugues' to expose the elements which began this sickness in my Soul?
Quote
When it loved it typically loved the kind of people who blow it's heart to pieces....(uranus in leo, 5th AND neptune in 8th, in scorp.) the ulterior agendas coming out of the veils at one point causing such disillusionment (neptune) and heartbreak (uranus) that again it just didn't seem to worth living OR caused such anger that the soul totally shut down (mars in taurus) and didn't want to know anything but what it can do to survive via utilising the whatever resources it had....
Yes, in this life, before this current marriage, my heart was shattered by the betrayal of my first wife - a betrayal that I helped to instigate by being withdrawn and isolated and unfeeling. It took the betrayal to break my heart into feeling, and for that I am grateful. Yet, paradoxically, the betrayal awoke the feelings of the absolute pain of that very betrayal, a betrayal which maybe would not have occurred if the feelings had been active before.
Quote
I believe this is one of the most important lessons that your soul is trying to learn via all the soul- and heart breaking paradoxes your soul went through just to realise (via fully entering into the 1st spiritual) that it is all okay...every soul makes mistakes, every soul has been confused, every soul has experienced the total desperation of anguish and horror about BOTH OTHERS AND ONESELF! There is no way otherwise....those who believe there is another way are still in neptunian illusion....
so we are all equal (deep within your consciousness there is some conscious knowledge about this underlying equality...saturn in aq.)
In this life your soul is culminating all the beliefs that the soul had in the past, and trying to realise the real Source...trying to fully enter into the spiritual state via conscious realisation of what the Source really is about....
On that note one of the most important lesson to learn is not only to recover the paradoxical skipped steps but also embracing them in a way that your soul can really learn to FORGIVE within the embraced fundamental equality that your soul suspected but was confused about (neptune's pointing back to s.node and saturn) To learn to forgive (pisces) to everyone for their mistakes YOURSELF INCLUDED! It is all about the substance (consciousness) experiencing itself via the experiences it creates for itself....a very confusing term but that's exactly what we do :-)....and at the end in the TRUE NATURAL GOD/ESS' EYES we are all equal and equally loved....unconditionally....the mistakes of every soul are totally equal in god/ess' eyes...why? Because our mistakes are our greatest teachers...we can't learn from intellectual knowledge we only learn via experiences...
Forgiveness of others for the mistakes that they make is something that I am starting to understand, yet I have not thought of that in this way. Forgiveness of others for what I perceive that they "˜have done' to me is coming very slowly for me, and forgiveness of myself is something that I am as yet unable to contemplate. Still do I apparently (and needlessly) hold the pain of this issue very close to my heart. When the pain is dominant, then there appears to be no solution and even no other way of living. Alternatively, when my heart is still and I can accept the love of another, then at that time, the times of pure pain seem as if a dream I once saw in a dimly-remembered movie.
Quote
One of the most important thing about this (to me) is the simple knowledge (gemini) that everything has another side...this leads to the higher aspect of mercury/gemini : aquarius...the paradox itself....
and the paradox leads back to the where it came from: the source of the paradox is the Source of all things, god/ess itself...to help and to teach us about our OWN paradoxical nature as a subjective consciousness, soul....we learn objectivity via learning about our own subjectivity.....and via that we can understand other soul's subjectivity and can see them and ourselves ever more objectively at the end...and that's what helps us to get ever closer to the ultimate truths, the ultimate meaning, the ultimate "˜goal' of life...realising what' behind it all...neptune, 12th, pisces...god/ess itself with eternal love waiting for us with open arms at the end of the rocky journey....and that's where your soul is heading of course to embrace the natural god, to culminate the false believes embrace, understand and forgive all the consequences but understand and embrace it with LOVE and COMPASSION instead of rejection and judgment towards your own soul....
Well at least that's how I see it....so again I agree to a certain degree what Lesley have seen in the chart, what I am saying is just that IT IS NOT THE WHOLE picture, it is but a consequence (confused and paradoxical consequence) of what happened before....
I hope this make sense?
Thank you Lia"¦a very overwhelming and yet welcome post. It makes sense, and will make further sense as I read it over several more times. You are a wonderful helping Soul, and your ability with EA is simply astounding to me.
Blessings to You,
and Peace to
All Beings,
Stephen
Quote
It is so wonderful to see you moving firmly into the EA community by following your Soul's desire to find the healing, support, and commiseration that it needs. So many of us can relate to your experiences. Because of your natural compassion, sincerity, and purity of intention (Moon/Jupiter/Chiron in 12th/Pisces, oppose Pluto in Virgo/6th), you are a natural vehicle for healing work, as you already sense within yourself. I know how I feel when I read your words, and how beautifully your intention comes through them -- your Soul speaks directly to others' Souls. I hope that you will consider doing something with writing (3rd house Sun, 3rd house Mercury in Gemini trine Saturn/South Node in Aquarius/11th, Pluto in Virgo/6th ruled by the Mercury) as you continue to heal, and progressively work to heal others as well.
Hi Lesley,
First I just want to thank you, and everyone here who is helping me and so many others, by providing this service. Simple peace is what I seek, and I am sure that many others do as well. Anyone who wanders past this site will perhaps see a Soul receiving fellowship and trying desperately to eventually learn how to create a space of peace for itself, and they may then reach out from their own place of personal pain, and take what is rightly theirs"¦healing of their own Soul and finding a place of gentleness toward themselves and others in their own hearts.
I DO NOT SEE IN ME WHAT YOU SEE IN ME. I asked my wife, why is it that she sees this? How is it that she sees this? I do not mean to fool anyone into seeing something that is not there! And, dearheart that she is, my wife says,
I see that"¦
As for writing, if there is something to say, I write it down. If there is nothing to say, I don't write (much. Ego-mind just loves to listen to itself, doesn't it!). Hopefully, if it is True and will truly help others, then I will be led to write at least THAT. However, I have journals full of this painful journey...for a Soul in pain seems to be a Soul which tries to express that pain. Souls exist in a realm of poetry, I think"¦and an intensity of feeling - either dark or brilliant - awakens in the Soul a greater desire to express itself.
I am suddenly thinking that perhaps Souls only have action, and expression, at their command.
I would have to repeat what I said in the previous post: Please forgive me, for I think that I am becoming perhaps more and more uneven in my expressions in these posts, as something for me is unraveling a bit recently. Or, maybe, I am removing some of the filters through which I past each word as it travels from mind through finger to keyboard to reader.
These are my true feelings, even if my current 'fugue' of today is placing a dimming filter between me and my attempt to express myself.
Quote
As I mentioned before, I too am a 6th house Pluto in Virgo (learned/internalized/institutionalized guilt, as through monotheistic religions like Catholicism/Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), and I've also got lots of Capricorn/Saturn (natural guilt for misuse of personal abilities in prior lives). I have felt, for many lifetimes now, that I do not deserve to be healed, that God wouldn't want me back, that God somehow abandoned me...and yet, like you, I have a natural desire to help others, to see others succeed and find peace and happiness (Pluto-Mars opposition, Full phase, with Mars in 12th. Mars also trines Neptune, 1st qtr phase). I've had to use my rational Virgo/6th house Moon to ask myself, "Why, if I want others to find joy, do I not want that for myself? Is this really the way God wants it -- that everyone else deserves and receives healing and forgiveness except me?" The narcissism within myself was exposed in an almost humorous way, at that point. Because everybody on the planet has screwed up, at some point(s). In the eyes of God, I believe, no one's mistakes are any worse than anyone else's...it is all for the sake of learning, growth, and evolution. Even with the mistakes made, it is a really beautiful path we walk to ever more knowledge and direct experience of God.
That is really a beautiful expression of a Soul's awakening understanding of one facet of its many-sided journey. You seem to have the ability to reach out and touch another with your words, even as what you had attributed to me, for that statement has an impact on me. Additionally, I am having even a physical reaction to reading these posts. Is that part of the healing? Intellectually, I am on-board with the concepts that you are so clearly expressing. Emotionally, there are deep things stirring under the surface, and yet I do not know if these posted words are even reaching that depth. As I sit here, I alternate between numbness, and dizziness. Is it the knowledge which will free me? ("˜Listen up, ego-mind"¦HERE is something for you to contemplate.')
Perhaps it is as in Homeopathy, where each imbalance is brought to the surface, and healed, only to bring up the next deeper layer of imbalance. And, only what is brought to the surface can be healed...?
Quote
Natural guilt is a very natural reaction to actions we took that violated Natural Law: natural guilt (which correlates with Saturn, 10th house, and Capricorn) for violating Natural Law is thus part of Natural Law itself. It is through this natural guilt that we are realigned with Natural Law, and with God. Natural guilt thus serves a very important purpose. But it is when the Soul gets stuck on that natural guilt (or learned guilt....any kind of guilt), that our evolution stalls. This is part of the skipped steps in your chart, with Mars in Taurus in 2nd oppose Neptune in Scorpio in 8th, squaring the nodal axis in Aquarius/11th and Leo/5th, and with Mars-Neptune squaring that natal Saturn as well. Neptune in Scorpio/8th is truly a battle for the Soul between the dual urges of regeneration/metamorphosis and total destruction. Opposed to Mars in gibbous phase (gibbous phase correlates to extreme self-criticism, which can induce self-loathing), there will be spiritual crises and crises within the Soul itself (Scorpio/8th) to induce self-knowledge so that the Soul can make necessary adjustments within itself, which will allow the social role (which correlates to the Full phase opposition at 180 degrees) to be fulfilled in the appropriate way, in concert with Divine Will (Mars oppose Neptune and sq Nodes. Mars and Pluto, as rulers of the solar plexus chakra, correlate to our will, others' will, and Divine Will).
There is an inkling here of something"¦the concept of a Natural God'dess"¦swells my heart and stills my mind. There is sheer power in THAT idea. There is peace there"¦I feel "˜
something?' An echo of something I knew, or should know"¦ What are the parameters of this Natural Law? What is natural is effortless and thus this is the law"¦?
"This is part of the skipped steps in your chart"¦" So, learning that guilt itself IS a part of Natural Law, and SO TO NO LONGER STUCK ON THE GUILT PATTERN, is a step that my Soul has skipped, and THAT is why the intensity in this life"¦to learn what was skipped. I deeply feel that statement has healing power for me"¦! I almost don't want to move off of it, and go on to the rest of the post. I will need to meditate on that one...
Reading and responding to these posts is wearing on me, in a way that I do not understand. I am able to focus at work 16 hours straight without a break if need be, and I have worked out with some of the premiere world-class Martial Artists in my youth, and was well able to hold my own. However, I am finding it hard to hold my head up right now as I type, my neck is crackling and snapping, and the keyboard seems to be swaying like I am once again at Sea. The tension of opposites is fully ignited and present, right now I feel, for I have been sitting here reading this post and Lia's previous post for quite some time now, and seeking within myself for the honest responses that these posts deserve.
(Did I mention that this is INTENSE for me?)
Quote
The notion of karma yoga, or right/appropriate work on behalf of God'dess that is by definition of natural benefit to ourselves and others, is implicated in the Earth triplicity: Virgo (service), Saturn (social position/role), and Taurus (manifestation), but it is most explicitly reflected in the 6th/12th house axis: work (Virgo) on behalf of God (12th), which of course is done on behalf of others. Karma yoga becomes a natural path of evolution (for the self, AND for Universal need) near the end of the 3rd stage of the Individuated condition, which is where your Soul finds itself in the present lifetime. Mars in Taurus/2nd, Pluto in Virgo/6th, Saturn on SNode, and Pisces Moon/Jupiter/Chiron conj Pluto's polarity point in Pisces/12th, suggest that working on behalf of others will naturally help to heal you, and that is more than okay -- it is necessary. Karma yoga is simply the right or appropriate application of natural gifts and talents given us by God. This naturally leads to a work function and social role that evolves the Soul itself, others' Souls, and the Creation as a whole...all by our own small efforts, one step at a time (Pluto in 6th/Virgo).
You put that so clearly. Thank you for your time spent in posting, truly. That makes SUCH sense. I listened to an audio clip that is on Deva Green's website, in which her father speaks about How to Know God (http://www.devagreen.com/articles.htm (http://www.devagreen.com/articles.htm)). JWG says (in paraphrase), 'Ask not what God can do for you, but what you can do for God.' What a profound and yet simple and yet absolutely RIGHT thought! However, to come to that thought on your own probably requires a time of travel
through many many many lives, and, if I did not hear him say it,
I certainly would not have thought of it! Does that tie into the concept of naturalness in the Natural God...something being so simple and yet so profoundly RIGHT?
Quote
The notion of the beautiful, wonderful, imperfect Natural God is a great idea for a new thread. God, as Creator of all, is the origin and source of the imperfection we personify and experience.
All that happens or occurs through application of personal will always and only occurs within the broader context of Divine Will. Thus, we don't need to be saved or redeemed by some "˜perfect' god in order to find healing and peace; we need only to redeem and save our concept/definition of God, in order to find the healing and peace that are our birthright.
Oh yes, much much more of that concept"¦please?
Quote
Stephen, I would like to close by saying that you are already providing so much healing and service to all, simply by posting your chart and sharing your life experiences. I know that I, as an EA practitioner, am extremely humbled by your presence on this board. Your purity of intention and sincerity of purpose are so beautiful to behold. I hope you can see this within yourself, because you shine very brightly, and quite naturally, despite your inner experience of yourself right now, at this point in time. Your current concept of yourself will change....
I do not see this that you say about me. You are a brilliant Soul to say it however. I feel like a fraud when I read it, for the only skill I bring here is the simple honesty of exposure (which is in a sense a counter-reaction to the apparent complacency of my own ego-mind), whereas you and Lia and Rad and Deva and Adina and Steve and all the rest all bring true healing to others, and are doing so voluntarily from the goodness of your own Hearts.
The Great Mother is happy for the work that you all allow Her to do through you, of THAT I am certain.
I am ready for this current concept of me to change. When it does, I will post it, if interest in this thread warrants it.
Quote
Just keep going...in the Virgo/6th house manner of your Pluto (and mine!), healing comes one small (but profound) step at a time.
Oh Yes will I ever keep going (and you do too!) I cannot stop, nor do I want to (nor will I allow it to happen!). The Mother deserves to have another "˜hand' to send Her Healing through to this Earth, and ALL of Her children.
Quote from: Lesley on Jun 15, 2009, 01:18 PM
...actually, it's a Full phase opposition between your Mars and Neptune (I knew that! I posted it in my last reply!)...the notion of right work through giving your own experiences a relevant social context is thus underscored. (Sorry!)
No Worries Mate! (Spoken in an Australian twang!)
Thanks Lesley,
You shine very brightly,
God'dess Bless,
Stephen
Hello All,
Today the "˜fugue' of yesterday is past. World is normal, and I can sense (due to the energies coursing through me today) that I now have to be very very careful of ego-inflation. Yes, the pendulum now swings in the other direction... (Manic polarization, perhaps...) However, I can use my mind today again - the IQ diminishment has come and gone!! (Yea!)
I have highlighted some (currently only some) of the many points which I am studying from the posts in this thread. These points below are what I would consider to be "˜action items' which I need to address, as well as the supplementary information which supports those action items.
I DO NOT plan to remain on the same sticking points, and thus have this (case study) thread become bogged down in my refusal to implement the suggested changes in ego-mind and Soul. Rest assured, I WILL do the work"¦
My current review of the points listed in the posts by Rad, Lia and Lesley above:
I am currently in 3rd Individuated, trying (desperately) to move into 1st Spiritual, and I am on the cusp of making tremendous Soul changes. However, the attempt to move into 1st Spiritual has deeply confused my Soul. My Soul has nothing wrong with it - it is just so utterly confused, and thus requires clarity through unraveling the Truth about the reasons for its own underlying confusion. The bottom line of my current Soul confusion was the desire of my Soul to choose parents that would undermine, reject and "˜punish' me for who I ACTUALLY am.
I feel alone, but am not, for many many others have endured this Soul-pain, and thus can others relate to a lot of what I've shared so far. What I think about myself is not what actually what I am (ie; The Confusion). However, my current concept of myself will change, for healing comes one small (but profound) step at a time.
I am loved and supported by the Source, as I am exactly what I should be, and there is a reason for this"¦what it is that I now am.
My Soul has developed a deep and penetrating MASOCHISM, and this is the first thing I need to understand and heal, and yet this understanding/healing can happen only if I am able to unravel the source of the confusion deep within my Soul. My Soul in different ways has been trying to minimize any egocentric importance, but THAT goal has been attempted in the past in ways that were EXTREMELY undermining, hurtful and harmful in childhood, especially in early childhood. It is when this type of attempt falls in the 12/6th axis that it is played out in some extreme sado-masochistic ways.
The underlying masochism is based on a deep unconscious need to "˜atone' for something, a belief which may or may not be real, but which is possibly an intention created in a past life. The masochism thus possibly correlates to the Judeo-Christian belief systems of the last 2000 years, based on hypocritical teachings that are almost totally against anything natural, for example, beating up the ego and beating up the life of the flesh. Thus, my Soul believed that I had to "˜sacrifice' all my emotions in order to be "˜good enough' as an individual. And, what THAT meant was that I had to DENY my actual real Soul for the sake of what I was TOLD it 'is' and how it 'should be' instead, which lead to feeling a lack and the feeling of not being good enough for some reason, and additionally feeling guilty for that.
The CONFUSION is very paradoxical, coming from deep in the bottom layers of my consciousness, and arising out of a misunderstanding, plays itself out as an unconscious belief that something is "bad" about my very Soul as a soul. This translates into the confused desire to end even my Soul's existence - to give it up and make it ultimately and eternally dead. In other words, in some ways my "˜entrapment' is about the very WAY my Soul was trying to unconsciously evolve. When we mix confusion and misunderstanding with some Truth, the end will none-the-less still be confusion!
Every symbol in my chart is a double sword. The emphasized confusion within my Soul is based on totally confused beliefs: What is God? What is the Source, and how to serve it? How can I be 'good enough' according to the Source (what it 'wants' from me, in other words)? However, the real issue is to become aware of the Truth concerning the underlying beliefs which I developed over the course of many many lifetimes, and how those beliefs have affected me and my whole emotional being and subjective self-image. Additionally, in what ways THAT affected my unconscious and conscious beliefs, which themselves then caused a very contradictory and very severe masochism. This belief structure was all based on the patriarchal God image, and those man-made laws and expected virtues, as derived through this manmade God image versus the actual NATURAL Source.
This highly emphasized trauma (from not one but many lifetimes) actually forced my Soul to accelerate my own evolution, and this acceleration led me to ever deeper searches within my Soul. Then, on the deepest level I felt ever more utterly alone, and felt absolutely hopeless, absolute impossible (the paradox affect), and absolutely not good enough no matter which way I tried. Everything in the past became a total paradox, and even how I relate to myself has been almost totally oppressed/suppressed through the ways of parents, social expectations of norms and values, and by the very people that I actually wanted to serve, and this also created a deep Soul-guilt. This created the typical "˜damned if you do' and "˜damned if you don't' scenario. When I did what my Soul felt was sincerely and honesty right, it was JUDGED WRONG, for it was against exactly what I was told I "should be doing" and in general how I "should be". This is the paradoxical start for the extreme confusion and the resulting masochism which my Soul is actually now working through. However, the soul deep within knows that to serve others is to serve God.
In order to fully understand the causative factors as related in my biography, I need to discern the difference between natural guilt and learned guilt. To unravel that dynamic, the difference between learned versus natural guilt, and the psychological/behavioral consequence of that, is a giant key in understanding my evolutionary and life situation. In terms of guilt, I had a prior-life abuse of personal power (power available to me through my birth family) that impacted a great number of people. The desire for self-annihilation seems to be a response to the natural guilt within my Soul. Additionally, as a result of the intense and deep internal guilt, I subjected myself to suicides in prior-lives. Also, it is the sense of falling short of my own ideals of behavior which has been causing or creating the self-destructive impulse.
My Soul is ready to purge from itself the buildup of guilt that has stalled its evolution and perpetuated traumatic life experiences. Additionally, my Soul now sees a need to give its experiences and acquired knowledge a social context, for the sake of healing others as I myself continue to heal. To THAT end, Astrology would be a wonderful 'karma yoga' for my Soul. As I do this work on behalf of others, my Soul will move firmly into the 1st stage Spiritual evolutionary condition, and I will finally receive the healing my Soul needs for THAT is what God wants to give to me.
My Soul is dealing with a double skipped step, and is also dealing with an underlying paradox relative to the current STRUCTURE of my Soul's consciousness. EVERYTHING in my natal chart is defined by the paradox itself, and the tension is at minimum EXTREMELY INTENSE! Unless I understand the paradoxical nature of my Soul and unravel the reasons for these skipped steps, I will not have an objective picture of my Soul issues.
It is possible that the paradox started when groups of people had abruptly changed the belief systems and started to "˜teach' the new paradoxical "˜truths' of the patriarchy, and so the DEEPEST wound of my Soul, the feminine/feeling/emotional principle, happened to my belief system, and happened when I was a woman.
The very reason for the skipped step in the very first place was started with an unexpected "˜reward' for a gift given by my Soul. The gift was 'passing on' the divinity attribued to leadership to my own son, or sons, or their closest friends, and the unexpected "˜reward' was actually being murdered by that person(S) in whom I had trusted and to whom I had given this power. So, my Soul experienced the first trauma and the first and deepest shock when as a mother giving unconditionally out of love. The beliefs and the total trust which my Soul had at that time were fundamentally betrayed by my instant and unexpected death by the hand of my most beloved. My Soul thought that I must have done something wrong in order to "˜deserve' this horrible death by the person (or persons) whom I loved the most, and THAT betrayal wounded my Soul in the deepest possible way. However, this story is just one possible lifetime which began the paradox that led to the later lives of the anger, confusion and not being able to find solution, all the while my Soul was sinking deeper and deeper either in anger or in a self-professed need for atonement. So my Soul's acceleration to the 1st spiritual started through those very traumas which it experienced in the 3rd individuated, and it was this which rushed the Soul ahead in paradoxical ways.
Eventually my Soul was trying to cut off and alienate from its own heart in order to survive, and that in itself also traumatized my Soul, but then I realized that survival without a feeling/loving heart was worth NOTHING at all, and so then my Soul wanted to kill even itself.
One of the most important lessons which my Soul is trying to learn through all of these Soul-breaking and heart-wrenching paradoxes is seeing myself as totally EQUAL, being no more and no less than anybody else. My Soul went through these lives, and these levels of pain, just to realize that everything is ok, for every Soul makes mistakes, every Soul has been confused, every Soul has experienced the total desperation of anguish and horror both about others and oneself.
In this life, my Soul is culminating all of the beliefs which it had in the past, and so is trying to realize the real Source, and is trying to fully enter into the spiritual state through a conscious realization of what the Source is really all about. Thus, one of the most important lessons to learn is not only to recover the paradoxical skipped steps, but also to be able to embrace them in a way in which my Soul can really learn to FORGIVE. To learn to forgive everyone for their mistakes"¦MYSELF INCLUDED! To learn to understand and forgive all the consequences, yet understand and embrace them with love and compassion, instead of with rejection and judgment towards my own Soul.
One of the most important things about this is the simple knowledge that everything has another side, and this leads to the higher aspect of the paradox itself, and the paradox leads back to its own source, which is the Source of All Things"¦God'dess. This lessons comes to us in order to help me and to teach me about my OWN paradoxical nature as a subjective consciousness. I, like everyone else, learn objectivity through learning about my own subjectivity, and through it is through this that I can understand another Soul's subjectivity, and so can see them and myself ever more objectively at the end.
In the eyes of the Natural God'dess, we are all equal beings and equally unconditionally loved...for the mistakes of every Soul are totally equal in Her eyes. Because our mistakes are our greatest teachers, we are simply unable to learn only from intellectual knowledge - we must learn primarily through our experiences. Everybody on the planet has screwed up, at some point. In the eyes of the God'dess, no one's mistakes are any worse than anyone else's, as it is all for the sake of learning, growth, and evolution. Even with the mistakes made, it is a really beautiful path which we walk, leading to ever more knowledge and direct experience of the Source.
Natural guilt is a very natural reaction to actions we took that violated Natural Law, and so natural guilt for violating Natural Law is thus part of Natural Law itself. Thus, it is through this natural guilt that we are realigned with Natural Law and with the Source. Natural guilt thus serves a very important purpose. However, when a Soul gets stuck on that natural guilt (or learned guilt...any kind of guilt), then the Soul's evolution stalls.
A precious and profound teaching of JWG is the beautiful, wonderful, imperfect Natural God, who is compassionate, loving, and forgiving. God, as Creator of all, is the origin and source of the imperfection we personify and experience. Therefore, ultimately there is nothing to forgive or be forgiven for. Judgment, especially unnecessary and excessive judgment, falls away very naturally when we find -- first through intellectual concept, then as direct experience -- that God Itself is an evolving force. Everyone (including me!) deserves, and so ultimately will receive, the healing and forgiveness that they need. Conversely, patriarchal religions enforce the mistaken notion of a "˜perfect' God that sits in judgment in a detached and punitive manner. No one (including me) needs to be saved or redeemed by some "˜perfect' God in order to find healing and peace. Each of us only needs to redeem and save our concept/definition of God, in order to find the healing and peace that are each of our birthrights.
All that happens or occurs through application of personal will always and only occurs within the broader context of Divine Will.
I am a natural vehicle for healing work, and perhaps I should consider doing something with writing, as I continue to heal and progressively work to heal others as well. Karma Yoga, or the right and appropriate work on behalf of God'dess which is by definition of natural benefit to ourselves and others, becomes a natural path of evolution (for the self, AND for Universal need) near the end of the 3rd stage of the Individuated condition, which is where my Soul finds itself in the present lifetime. Working on behalf of others will naturally help to heal me, and that is more than okay -- it is necessary. Karma Yoga is simply the right or appropriate application of natural gifts and talents given us by God. This naturally leads to a work function and social role that evolves the Soul itself, others' Souls, and the Creation as a whole...all by my own small efforts, in step with everyone else's efforts, one step at a time.
Thanks everyone for your help !!
!!! Growth of Soul is the Goal !!!
Hi Stephen,
I intend to say a few more things but I work away from home during the week and have really doggy net connection and a doggy laptop as weel:-) so I can#t do it now only during the weekend.
Blessings,
Lia
Quote from: Lia on Jun 18, 2009, 07:54 PM
Hi Stephen,
I intend to say a few more things but I work away from home during the week and have really doggy net connection and a doggy laptop as weel:-) so I can#t do it now only during the weekend.
Blessings,
Lia
Hiya Lia,
I look forward to ANYTHING that you have to say.
Thank you very much for your time and energy,
Blessings to You,
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
I sent you a message; I feel the particular ways I can suggest to heal the confusion and the resulting rage as the skipped steps in your chart would be more appropriate to pass on this way.
Blessings,
Lia
stephen, if your comfortable with it and if your ok with it too lia- post what lia wrote to you.
Quote from: ari moshe on Jun 22, 2009, 01:32 PM
stephen, if your comfortable with it and if your ok with it too lia- post what lia wrote to you.
Sure Ari,
I hope that this thread is interesting to everyone, and maybe even helpful.
I asked Lia by message if anything in that post would be considered personal by her.
Once she responds, then I can post it. I don't see anything in her post which can't be allowed to be read here in this thread, thus continuing this process of 'simple honest exposure.'
God'dess Bless,
Stephen
Hi Stephen and Ari,
Well I just thought it might be too long here; some people can summarise their thoughts in a shorter way, for me it doesn't work that way:-)
Anyhow, it is up to you guys; I thought it could benefit Stephan if I share all that with him but felt it may be too long winded to put it up here...my aim was to help Stephen's soul if I can......I hope it was meaningful for him......but I didn't mean to take up so much space here and maybe bore someone else....anyhow, no secret just that's the reason...if there is an interest however, sure of course share it Stephen.
(PS: if I could I would make things shorter, -- but that's unlikely to happen in this life:-))
Love and blessings,
Lia
Quote from: Lia on Jun 24, 2009, 07:40 PM
Well I just thought it might be too long here; some people can summarise their thoughts in a shorter way, for me it doesn't work that way:-)
(PS: if I could I would make things shorter, -- but that's unlikely to happen in this life:-))
Helpful Lia,
Oh no...don't go making your posts shorter...make 'em longer. ;)
I for one love to read your postings.
Keep it up, you are a benefit to everyone on this board, of that I am certain, and you are benefitting me, that I absolutely know!
Quote
I thought it could benefit Stephan if I share all that with him but felt it may be too long winded to put it up here...my aim was to help Stephen's soul if I can......I hope it was meaningful for him......if there is an interest however, sure of course share it Stephen.
Your posts HAVE helped me, and as I reread them, they CONTINUE to help me.
It is funny, in a way, the juxtapostion:
I have little to say, and my posts are short on EA, but I am trying to say more,
and you have a lot to say, and your posts are long on EA, but you are thinking of saying less!! :D
Keep typing and we will keep reading,
and you will keep helping and we will keep getting helped!
God'dess Bless,
Stephen
Hi all,
Lia brought up the atlantis connection with the sn of neptune. I was wondering if Stephan was once a scientist/spiritualist type leader on Atlantis who was perhaps arrogant- and glorified of his genius abilities/ the abilities of his society?
He would have been responsible for development and innovation of some kind- and people were reliant on him and he was well known.
he may have experienced a fall from grace as he himself become overly arrogant and ignored the obvious signs that were screaming "change your ways". what then happened was a great trauma and imprinted a feeling of guilt in his soul. i think he would have been very effected not just by his own death- by watching his way of life fail, the very paradigm that he was so invested in, fall to pieces.
Hope you don't mind such a direct question Stephan!
i just now remembered that i had a dream last night in which jwg said "80% of all people are born with ptsd" i was wondering if someone could speak to that statement in any way.
(the rest of the dream involved me piercing both my nostrils. what are nostrils associated with?)
::MODIFIATION: I JUST REALIZED THAT I PROBABLY READ THAT IN DEVA'S BOOK AS I WAS FALLING ASLEEP!:: :D
Hi Ari,
In my view there is truth in what you are saying here regarding an earlier period when the soul was in the 2nd individuated...the nature of that state is quiet problematic indeed....the individuation process of the soul indeed overlaps those times; so the prior period the 2nd individuated points to the time when the soul could belong only the alienated, eclectic, nihilist, arrogant and fundamentally rebelling groups at those times YES to that...along with the abilities that were offered to this group in a careless self centered way (5th leo uranus ruling saturn and s.node in 11th in aq: groups basically outside of society creating their own society) and yes, of course in 5th house leo way, awaiting personal acknowledgment for the abilities and of course the result was not only receiving unexpected trauma instead but indeed being a part of the group who traumatised everyone else those times......the 3rd individuated re-integration attempt to society (saturn on s.node) started after that time and started with trauma....so this as I see it started during the early egyptians times =neptune in scorp. ruled by 6th pluto=already trying to atone for something regarding the earlier evolutionary period, trying to 'serve and give selflessly' (lilith conj. pluto in virgo) and yet, that time once again serving (6th house) out of illusion (pluto rules neptune in 8th) more or less the same aim that the atlantis group was about.....lilith conj. lucifer in 6th; blinding the soul.....
....every evolutionary period comes out from the earlier one....so the current closure of the 3rd individuated came out of the earlier 2nd individuated ...,.one step comes after another....which is true for every soul....So yes, in a sense I do agree to what you are saying Ari.
But if we understand the fact that north node (of moon) conj. venus in leo in 5th, while venus itself ALSO conj. to its own south node in leo (but it falls to the 4th house) it becomes clear that the past and the present comes in 'full circle' regarding venus in leo.....it is about both, self actualisation and the issues of the 'heart'.....while the neptune skipped step is the higher octave of venus....sun ruler of both the south node of venus and current venus/conj. north node, it becomes clear that the soul is destined to "go back" somewhere and start a new cycle within this symbolism ...but it's intended to do it now in a different way....for it's not a circle it is a spiral, the evolutionary spiral on which we reach a higher level as we go 'around'.....coming back means we have come to full circle and we are now on a different level.....
Neptune's resolution node is the north node in 5th in leo conj. venus: it is to do with the need to re-open and renew the heart but in a different way......while mars resolution node is the s.node; to join groups once again but now those groups that truly serve humanity, not just say so; that bring indeed liberation not just promise so....for THAT was the individual understanding (uranus) and the belief (neptune) of the soul....
Saturn and neptune are retro in the chart...
Mars is ruled by venus (in the present as well as in the past!) Mars' south node is libra 7th house; the outer side of venus in the past, and the inner side of venus in the present via the taurus mars......so we are going back to venus in many different ways....the soul is destined to come back and resolve the underlying 'heart issues' and 'self actualisation' issues, to be able to do it in the right way......behind which is the inner and outer relationship with oneself and with others ....question is what is the base for any of these relationships?
The underlying problem is that both was wrong and both led to further traumas; when it was about others and their feedback it was wrong, and when it was about oneself it was also wrong.....so the solution in short is that, as long as venus is not 'rooted' in the right 'place' (the Divine itself= which is symbolically neptune of course the higher octave of venus) none of the skipped steps can be resolved...nor can the ppp. be achieved in the right way....
When the ultimate 'value' of existence is rooted in anything else but the Divine itself it will lead to disillusionment and trauma in one way or another.....that's what the sun's ruler moon in pisces in 12th conj. ppp trying to teach: the divine must come FIRST and everything comes only AFTER that .....if that lesson is not resolved the misplaced trust and the wrongly projected ideals will continue along with the confusion/disillusionment/trauma/anger/guilt so all the grand cross patterns ...
That's why the service/atonement intent was distorted in the past and lead to even more of the above instead of improvement....
Well, at least that's how I see it....:-)
Blessings,
Lia
Quote from: ari moshe on Jun 26, 2009, 12:17 PM
Hi all,
Lia brought up the atlantis connection with the sn of neptune. I was wondering if Stephan was once a scientist/spiritualist type leader on Atlantis who was perhaps arrogant- and glorified of his genius abilities/ the abilities of his society?
He would have been responsible for development and innovation of some kind- and people were reliant on him and he was well known.
he may have experienced a fall from grace as he himself become overly arrogant and ignored the obvious signs that were screaming "change your ways". what then happened was a great trauma and imprinted a feeling of guilt in his soul. i think he would have been very effected not just by his own death- by watching his way of life fail, the very paradigm that he was so invested in, fall to pieces.
Hope you don't mind such a direct question Stephan!
Hi Ari,
Not only do I not mind such direct questions, I absolutely welcome them. (This type of 'simple honest exposure', which I am *appropriately* carrying over into my daily life, is very refreshing for me, and very very freeing, by the way!!) The description that you give of 'me' in that previous life resonates with me, and seems to be a type of person that I may have been, but unfortunately I do not have any actual experience in uncovering (and experiencing) the details of THAT particular life...yet. ;)
I thank you very much for applying your energies to this chart. I am myself trying to build up an understanding of this chart, in the systematic 'Planetary Method of Chart Interpreation' way, but am still in the process of streaming the EA basics into my mind, so to speak. The analogy seems to be that I am building a little building-shaped pile of sand, and I sit back from the effort, and look over, and there is a skyscraper built by Lia, rather intricate and intense, in detail. So, I just smile (a slight smile), and lean back in, and pat the sides of my little sand-building, and keep going.
Blessings Be Upon You, Ari,
And All who read this,
Stephen
Quote from: ari moshe on Jun 22, 2009, 01:32 PM
stephen, if your comfortable with it and if your ok with it too lia- post what lia wrote to you.
Quote from: Lia on Jun 24, 2009, 07:40 PM
I thought it could benefit Stephan if I share all that with him but felt it may be too long winded to put it up here...my aim was to help Stephen's soul if I can......I hope it was meaningful for him......but I didn't mean to take up so much space here and maybe bore someone else....anyhow, no secret just that's the reason...if there is an interest however, sure of course share it Stephen.
Hi All,
Here is the first message from Lia.
And thank you thank you once again, Lia.
Blessings,
Stephen
Quote from: Lia on Jun 21, 2009, 05:26 PM
Hi Stephen,
I was thinking how to put it in words what I wanted to say, sorry I tried to shorten it but somehow I just couldn't:-)) neptune is transiting my 3rd so everything I try to say becomes such long winded sorry:-))
Hope you can bear with me:-)
I wanted to add some clarification of the issues for I feel it can be (once again) kind of confusing and contradictory for you....:-)
Well typically what we attract/create as an "˜outer occurrence' so even in the form of so called "˜others' in our lives WILL ALWAYS reflect in hidden ways some of OUR OWN underlying issues.....
So for you confusion (pisces ppp. conj. moon, self image, chiron, wound, jup, truths/beliefs, all that ruled by neptune in the 8th and in scorpio a soul who is fundamentally confused about itself) has been in simple ways reflected.....as well as the underlying contradiction (aq. s.node in 11th, contradicting the contradiction which all came out of confusion) so that too has been reflected here as I see it:-))
One of the "˜tricks' how god/ess (neptune/pisces) manifest in our lives is this hidden reflection......our confusions will be reflected (neptune) and yet WITHIN THAT there will be real piscean messages relative to us, relative to the consciousness we have, relative to our ability to perceive the message (so relative to our evolutionary state etc. all that is included) and yet still it will be something that pisces brings to us in a hidden yet direct way right from the Source....
Unravelling the confusion of your soul and SORTING OUT the issues about both the imagined and then the real guilt; understanding the truth about the difference and then according to that sorting out what and how needs to be improved an in which order etc. is the evolutionary intent in the DEEPEST layers, (pluto and ppp) however on the overlapping layers are the nodes which can give you a more easily embracable framework on the more conscious level.....
On that note I'd like to ask a few simple 6th house questions for analyses
So the sorting out questions I'd like to pose are:
According to what kind of correlation inheritance can be uranus in leo?
Inheritance itself is scorpio, then of course pluto and 8th house is the archetypal correlation.
If the scorp. neptune would be in the 5th house for example, then it would be possible to refer to it as some sort of deflationary power the soul inherited from father figures within patriarchy, but the 5th house is not scorpio, and uranus is not about inheritance. Uranus in itself is about OBJECTIVITY, above all, and then the implications as how objectivity is usually embraced and to what level within consciousness. So friends for example are a uranian archetype simply because friendship in itself provides a very different way of looking at oneself not via merging with the other soul, but via allowing their individual sense affecting us and via the interaction between friends some sort of objectivity (because it is more than one person that friendship applies to so the very diversity of the uranian/aquarian symbol provides a group related feedback with DIVERSITY which indeed does help to gain more objectivity than what one can gain from it's family members, or loved ones, or one's own subjective self perception)
Uranus of course also correlates to trauma, usually huge trauma, BECAUSE the truth is that objectivity is the most TRAUMATISING factor to subjectivity....it just simply is. And that's simply because our consciousness IN ANY AND EVER LEVEL is fundamentally subjective...yes even on the soul level! For we are a separate/individual soul=consciousness particles that experiences (pluto) creation (pisces) from our own individual point of view. The symbolism of pluto being far apart in the distance correlates to what's HIDDEN in our view...our own subjectivity! And of course that individual point of view (even on the soul level) creates AN INDIVIDUAL reality that is totally relative to the view point OF WHERE THE SOUL IS WITNESSING AND EXPERIENCING IT FROM. It is fundamentally subjective in other words. #
And yet the aim of the soul is to experience itself and be able to view and witness creation (that it is a part of!) in ever widening perspectives, i.e. it has an underlying inner desire (the desire that draws the soul back to the source simply HAS this aspect) to gain ever greater OBJECTIVITY. For only via embracing objectivity it can lead to the soul to view itself as it really is; i.e. eventually viewing creation and itself within it ever more closer to HOW god/ess sees it.....with ever broadening objectivity....that is via REMOVING layers and layers and layers from the EMOTIONALLY BIASED subjectivity thru which the soul experiences everything.....that's of course the heart of the paradox itself....we are emotional beings and we supposed to embrace objectivity INTO THAT emotionally driven consciusness that we are.....
That's what every single trauma is actually attempting behind the scenes; something about the objective reality HITS US and it usually hits our subjective reality so hard that we can't even comprehend it so it all SINKS into the unconscious (uranus) because the whatever current conscious capacity is simply NOT ABLE TO either, assimilate it, let alone understand it.....it just bang, hurts and traumatises us (well what on earth can be traumatised OTHER than our emotional being? ) and then because of that whatever trauma we try to 1) alienate on that very spot, in order to avoid further traumas, 2) because we alienate on the conscious level, it all sinks to the unconscious, and in essence WE WILL CARRY IT FORWARD and paradoxically (of course!:-) it will then DEFINE from the depth of our individualised unconscious the very STRUCTURE of our conscious consciousness. It always does WE JUST DON'T KNOW IT. Why? Because aquarius in ITSELF actually contains saturn. The blueprint (uranus) of our life and within that the time and space related possibilities in THAT life span (saturn) is defined by the relationship between aquarius and capr. between uranus and saturn....In other words, aq. is the "˜fine matter' if we like to call it that way, or the astral body, the astral overall blueprint which will manifest via saturn (our "˜taking from' in that particular life within a particular framework of time and space reality manifesting as x.z. person,. carrying the whole soul context etc. etc....so the structural nature of saturn is actually blueprinted in uranus.....what we consciously KNOW is connected to the context of what we individually as a soul have in our subconscious......that which is just OUTSIDE of our conscious consciousness. That's where the individuality actually "˜originates' so to speak; ALL the unconscious experiences, unconscious memories, knowledge, the level of objectivity the soul embraced in prior lives, including the traumas and the attempts to alienate something in some ways if it hurt too much.....
Uranus in itself is on the one hand pointing what hurt too much, what we couldn't assimilate on the other hand of course the level of objectivity and based on that the level of individuality that the soul unconsciously acquired in the past....nothing comes free in the subjective journey of evolution:-) Objectivity can not be learn via detached pondering:-)....that's only mental entertainment....in reality, objectivity comes to us by literally BLOWING US OUT OF OUR (PREVIOUS) REALITY BOUNDARIES...what we built up /created/believed etc. that reality was or could be....Uranus is quiet OUTSIDE of that boundary.....that's why it causes trauma and that's why it (at the end) promotes objectivity even if that hurts and blows apart our whatever framework of reality.....it has to for otherwise we would not be able see THAT part of the objective reality.....
The real issue here is the imaginary inheritance as it was PERCEIVED BY OTHERS at the time of the turning point from matriarchy to patriarchy (that neptune rules MOON and JUP in 12th!) so that is the inheritance the soul passed on to it's children (leo is always GIFT in some ways, in some form....only when pluto or scorpio falls to teh 5th there can be the kind of inheritance that the soul receives and will enable the soul to either abuse or use)
The leo uranus as the ruler of the s.node in the 5th relates to both indeed, fathers within the patriarchy (and when that was the fathers, well those kind of fathers literally RIPPED THE HEART OUT of the soul, causing such trauma usually in childhood or youth, which was always related to people the soul dearly loved...back to ruler sun, in cancer: the whole thing has ALWAYS BEEN DEEPLY EMOTIONAL yes family members back and forth has been involved, like sister and brothers for example but not exclusively......for example the life time Stephen recalled in the Viking age, started with the experience of having witnessed or witnessed the result of having it's own children (leo and 5th house) being mercilessly MASSACRED by some relative who were jealous INDEED jealous of the possible inheritance of those children (i.e. the murder was done in order to secure the "˜royal bloodline' for themselves as they were brothers of the soul......the emotional implication in here once again being once deepest trust totally and fundamentally BETRAYED (scorp. neptune in 8th) for it was once again based on the confused belief of family relation, as something ultimately sacred and worth for placing all the values (neptune in scorpio! whom the soul merged/aligned with always had the ILLUSIONARY value; i.e. TOO MUCH VALUE HAS BEEN PLACED ON HUMAN ALLIANCES. That's why the objective reality (relative to the underlying illusion where the too much value has been placed) had to hit back where it HURT MOST so that the soul had NO CHOICE BUT TO EMBRACE THE OBJECTIVE REALITY AT LAST....via a horrific trauma to the heart....the level of trauma is symbolically when one's heart is RIPPED OUT OF ONE'S CHEST ALIVE.....JUST LIKE THAT...every single prior impulse of JOY, LOVE AND CREATIVE SELF ACTUALISATION intent relative to HOW the soul perceived it FROM IT'S VERY HEART (for that's the whole issue this whole evolutionary chapter is the "˜story of the heart' leo, 5th house, look at the symbolism here: venus (which is also heart!!) came BACK to it's s.node....and yet that very venus is conj. to the moon's n.node....the story, the evolutionary chapter that is culminating in the 12th house is the confusion based determination of WHAT LOVE AND COMING FROM THE HEART actually MEANS....that's where the misunderstanding lies....
That's what this chart is actually about....of course all that is about improvement ...but it is very important to recognise what this is and what this is not about....it's about not knowing something and because of that misunderstanding the WHOLE meaning of what the deepest love (scorpio, 8th house) means because neptune is there....the confusion to begin with....and than the soul's nature i.e. self actualisation have been taken place via ACTING FROM THE HEART based on the illusion that human love equal to divine love.........wanting to actualise itself in loving, generous ways but of course within a highly SUBJECTIVE (5th house) reality which than caused such a heart breaking and heart ripping trauma that the soul could neither comprehend nor could it resolve...
So what happened for example in the Viking life was the following: the loving heart of the soul was LITERALLY BLOWN OUT OF IT'S CHEST by witnessing/becoming aware of the massacre that was intended to look like an accident and yet the soul became aware of the REAL reason: the relatives (brothers) murdering each one of them....the PAIN AND THE UNSPEAKABLE RAGE that this cause to the soul has never ended in that life.....it WAS VIOLENTLY RAGING until it's own violent death in that life....killing everything and everybody....of course starting with the murderers, the brothers and sisters who killed his children.....the soul literally WANTED TO RIP IT'S OWN HEART OFF after the facts for it realised that it's own ability TO LOVE AND TO TRUST caused the unspeakable pain and horror....so as funny as is the soul was now trying to RIP IT'S OWN HEART, i.e. to never ever again LOVE ANYBODY AND NEVER AGAIN BEING LOVED BY ANYONE so that the pain can not be repeated.....for if one doesn't love the way the soul did, it "˜figured' only that can prevent this kind of unbearable pain to ever happen again....
So again, it is the story of human love, seeing with the heart, loving from the heart projecting (venus0 one's own generous nature onto others from a subjective 5th house, self cantered point of view (and yet indeed that point IN THIS CASE is truly about love...limited perception yes BUT truly within that reality the soul wanted NOTHING but to give to others from it's heart...to everybody relative to how it viewed everybody....which of course was quiet different than HOW OTHERS wanted to be "˜given to'....i.e. the soul had a rulership in that time which WAS NOT inherited the soul earned it via it's own individual capacity (uranus in leo) and yet it indeed became a symbol FOR OTHERS as something to inherit FROM THE SOUL...so that's why it's children (sons actually for it happened in the patriarchal times) has been murdered for....just for being the sons of the "˜leader"˜....
So that's what missing from the past life recall....the reason of course is because that's uranus itself THAT'S what the soul was trying to detach from at all cost the pain, the pain of having it's heart being ripped off alive.....
So the "˜solution' was indeed trying to detach to never ever love again....to be shut down to not to care about anything and anybody ever again FOR THAT APPEARED (neptune) the most horrible source of pain ever...if I don't love ever again no one can hurt me.....that was the second way of trying to "˜improve' after the first skipped step by neptune....
Then trying to INTELLECTUALISE everything...trying to live without a heart and the soul was trying to make sure that unconsciously (pluto) that the love will not develop in CHILDHOOD for of course that's where it starts....leo is coming out of cancer....how we relate to others, i.e. our parents in childhood (moon0) conditions (saturn) our social awareness and our way of relating to others...so pluto opp. moon has this underlying intention....i.e. what has been symbolised by uranus in leo (which happened in many ways in many different lives of course) created a DESIRE to DETACH from one's own heart...so that no subjective heart cantered reality will develop and no one can hurt me THAT way again....and of course the result is the saturn: consciousness that is trying to intellectualise and alienate from basically everything....that saturn of course rules the 10th house.....while being part of society in actual reality being TOTALLY ALIENATED from it....intellectually making sense, intellectually trying to live life and trying to convince oneself that this is the right way (of course the unconscious has the memories but that isn't conscious, as to the whys)
So again, this is a chapter in the soul's evolution as I see it which tells a long long story of how one's own heart can be perceived as the most horrible thing ever, and trying to 'get rid of it' ....yet of course the real issue here is that THIS IS HOW the soul structured....it is not REALLY the heart that was wrong, it is not really love and joy that the soul needs to alienate from, IT IS THE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THAT MEANS and the WAYS how it can be approached differently....so alas, the story follows in the way as it is: venus in leo in 5th is just completed it's full circle on it's own s.node....that's where it started from a long time ago and now it came back drawing a full circle.....and of course it is conj. to n.node ...so NO WAY to avoid that:-) BUT what needs to be embraced is the fact that evolution is not a circle...it is actually a SPIRAL...so it is a different level now that venus came back to it's s.node it is a different way that needs to be now embraced and instead of being stuck in the limitations of the past, now understanding the message differently:
It is actually very true in ESSENCE what the soul realised at the first place at the time of the original Lilith symbol; it can be put in a way that: serving others (virgo pluto conj. Lilith both ruled by mercury in the 3rd) doesn't mean much unless it comes from love...that's the conscious realisation and implementation via sun in cancer ruling venus and uranus in the 5th in leo....
The "˜story' (we all have a story in our soul by the way we experience and make sense of that story via our jup...we may make right or wrong sense that depends...the story is the same it is just how we interpret it at any time..) so the story of that venus on its own s.node is about SEEING OTHERS VIA THE HEART, THROUGH LOVE....
And indeed there is a lot of truth and value in that...for we can't see the essence unless we are able to see with the heart...seeing and living through the heart indeed is the only way to really enjoy life and to see what's "˜invisible' for the eyes....so that bit is fundamentally true indeed.
HOWEVER, the problem of course came from right there...yet the reality is not about trying to rip one's heart out just because it hasn't seen everything and that heart APPEARED (neptune!) to be the course of the trouble....the real cause is about the LEVEL OF OBJECTIVITY that the heart needs in order to be able to embrace a greater chunk of the objective reality and with that embraced BE STILL LOVING....be still willing to chose love, be still willing to actualise itself VIA THE VERY HEART how it feels right and what love MEANS is what need to be evolved instead of detaching from the heart and trying to make it never to love again....
So all the confusion about the guilt, about the horrors deep in the unconscious (one is about believing loving too much, and yet it is not about loving too much it is about missing the ULTIMATE goal, i.e. the ultimate value can not be placed on ANY human being...even if that human being is our child, or our most beloved....God/ess is in all of us and not in one or another person...so placing that ULTIMATE value and trust into God/ess itself instead of misplacing it into humans will resolve the underlying confusion....and with that in place the soul can and destined to LOVE fully again...but differently now with a more evolved consciousness ....
(cont. in the next message)
Hi All,
And here is the second message from Lia.
Thanks Lia!
(The Cosmos has decided to make this an 'interesting' week for me, so I have time for only a small response for now.)
Blessings,
Stephen
Quote from: Lia on Jun 21, 2009, 05:27 PM
It is very interesting when pisces is the ppp. or n.node....there is a deep underlying simple lesson wherein (as I see it) for it is the final equation of all the water triad (moon, our subjective consciousness experienced as an emotional being, pluto the soul-level consciousness again as an emotional being, and yet neptune/pisces is the origin of all that and everything else)...
I can put this in words in a way of trying to describe what water itself is: it is certainly a funny thing, we taste it, and yet it has no taste, if it has there is something else in it that gives the "˜taste' we can see it in many colors and yet it has no color, if we try to "˜grab' it, it escapes our hands, it isn't just "˜necessary' for life, it is LIFE ITSELF......
So to me the simplest way of understanding the confusions in your 12th house which is a confusion of relatively EVERYTHING that your soul experienced to this point of its evolution, is just simply to understand your own soul's journey and the reasons for it....
Back to pluto, improving the very ways how your soul was trying to improve itself in both skipped step symbolism...neptune needs to be applied to the s.node: sort out that confusion, never again place such a value on a human being it will be removed sooner or later....place it on the Source consciously, step by step embrace the Source into your daily life....it can happen in many ways....meditation etc....point being a CONSCIOUS EFFORT to embrace the Source into your own subjective day to day reality......and then MIRACULOUSLY ALL ELSE WILL BE ADDED ONTO YOU....
With n.node in leo in the 5th house, you need to RECOVER your heart...to allow yourself to love and receive love once again....not to be afraid of the unconscious past you need healing and liberation from that...by the way, of course neptune/jupiter and chiron is transiting your 11th house! And guess what? It is exactly OPPOSITE to your natal uranus! The causes and the traumas that lead to the conclusions (pluto) and the resulting intentions (mars) relative to those conclusions in the past....it is time for you to liberate from any false guilt, and to understand and embrace the real guilt....the reactions to what happened to you as a soul, and to others you once loved, and how mistakenly out of a misunderstanding was trying to shut your heart down, believing it was all wrong...so the message was, bloody hell, if love HURTS that much I do without it....so that's how the story of love OF COURSE include and MUST INCLUDE HATE:-)...scorpio neptune..........for that's the opposite of love of course within the subjective realities that our soul creates/experiences...it is only within the OBJECTIVE reality of the Source that there is no polarity no hate only love....
So that kind of higher reality relative to your soul's consciousness is what intended to be embraced in this very life ...and with that very personal very emotional embrace (moon right on your ppp. in pisces, you need to personally and emotionally realise that you are OK, just a confused soul and God/ess indeed loves you personally (moon) and it truly understands all the paradoxes your soul is dealing with and the resulting confusions and the decisions that this resulted within your subjective consciousness) and based on that YOU NEED TO ALLOW YOURSELF TO HAVE JOY AND LOVE AGAIN WITH YOUR HEART OPEN ONCE AGAIN...
It is okay to get hurt, it is okay to be traumatised to the point that we don't think our heart can ever heal....for it is only an ILLUSION at the end...what we are isn't dependent on what we may think/believe we are....that's the key....
On the healing heart re-opening ways: in my view you are in the right country:-) there is a wonderful therapy which is very emotionally based, it called "˜Rebirthing' but be careful ONE HUNDRED things called this way...the method I would suggest is the Australian method, which was taught by a wonderful Australian woman called Broonie Barter....she is typically one of those who the female aspect of the divine manifest: it rarely manifest in big names, it manifests through via many women who will pick up some important aspects of the Goddess' healing intention and will pass it on....she is (to me) one of those hidden manifestations: she was a housewife for so long, and got herself into total stagnation, including alcoholism and total personal crisis: eventually she broke away from the marriage and was lead to Rebirthing ...she then realised via her own process what was the problem in the man -dominated therapy, so based on that she invented it via embracing her own instinctual motherly nature....this makes the method extremely emotionally deep and because of that it is freeing liberating on that very level...... and no other authority is there than the soul itself...the soul of the client I mean:-)
Try to look on the internet I don't know where exactly you are but I am sure you can find someone that either graduated from her or a graduate of some of her students....your moon and neptune placement (to me) calls for deep emotional healing and of course this will free the context of your uranus...the deep held memories not one or two but many relative to what you need to embrace and understand from your own soul history (uranus) to free your heart via embracing consciously the reasons (it is very different when you embrace it FOR YOURSELF than if I or anyone try to tell you about it)....in my experience the other methods are far more intellectual and far more "˜structured' so they are (to me) more patriarchal than this method....this allows you to recover your own death conclusions (that's 8th house/scorpio) which of course is the major issue in your case for after each death you typically continued in some other confusion (neptune in scorp and in 8th)
Your consciousness will be able to easily embrace the memories and the resulting decisions and then you can do it for yourself the sorting out process that your pluto of course needs (6th house ) the real issue here is to sort our the actual reality of your soul. Once that's done it will be easier to continue....
This is by the way a process, far less expensive than the other methods, no leading, no suggestions, just support is there (i.e. unconditional love and acceptance for that is ALL we need in essence) you will go through emotionally all the stuff one by one (i.e. only what's important relative to your own soul) so it does not happen all at once, for it is emotional it needs PROCESSING TIME...but it can for sure save you a few life times to sort things out:-) ...for otherwise we will create things and live through the traumas again....so instead you can accelerate this process with this deeply emotional method of recollection and process the resulting death conclusions and beliefs....one by one....
If I remember right Julia Butler is one of those who graduated in my time and I believe she is still in Australia somewhere....you can find her on the web and can ask her if she knows somebody in your area...You would need to commit to at least 8 sessions ...that's the minimum .....emotions need time and processing it can"˜t be rushed....yet evolution happens only on that level, only if we can truly embrace something emotionally....all else just helping the process (like intellect) but the real issue is what's embraced emotionally and what hasn't....
Well, of course this is just my personal advice:-)......of course do whatever feels right to you IN YOUR HEART.
I can't emphasise enough how important it is for you to listen to your heart -no regard how traumatised it is still IT IS your personal guiding light in this very life time.....just listen to it.....
YES, DARE TO LISTEN TO IT AND FOLLOW IT!
By the way what you talked about as your "˜ego' is (to me) a total confusion....that's your alienated, intellectualised consciousness (Sat. on s.node) ....your actual self image is so confused in the 12th in pisces that almost ANYTHING at all can "˜feel right' for a while...like you saying 'my ego is this or that.'...to me at least NONE of those terms have much reality for the alienated consciousness simply creates and your mars of course has the resolution node in that s.node: all your anger, your desire to kill your soul and everything your ever loved, believed etc. etc. or even everything that"˜s was alive etc. ..So that resolving the original traumas as the CAUSE of that alienated consciousness along with the absolute rage because of it, will resolve that.....only if we understand WHY something happened can we objectively understand what actually happened.....
So again the ACTUAL reality of your soul (6th house virgo) need to be unravelled, and because you have scorpio 8th house and neptune in it, in my view you need actual AND DIRECT PROOF...i.e. direct experiences of unraveling the past life memories so that you would NOT RELY on the intellectualy based views or opinions of ANYONE (myself included) but the very factual (6th house virgo) context of your own soul (pluto)
So for that I would suggest to approach some methods to:
1) heal the confusion and the underlying pain carried in the heart still today (via the above or some other DIRECT past life methods that have the capacity of emotional healing, it would be no good at all to have an intellectual approach only)
2) Develop and embrace a method via which you can connect to God/ess but the NATURAL GOD/ESS ON A DAILY BASIS....
3) paralell to no 2) find ways of implementing the improvement/correction need in the 6th house, via improving the WAYS how your soul was trying to improve itself....it has to be imprved in meaningful ways - instead of taking on another layers of confusion about it.
So karma yoga can be meaningful if the first two is place, for otherwise (at least in my view) it can reinforce the "˜skip a step' again, if the sorting out steps within the virgo 6th house as the bottomline for everything haven't been sorted....the skipped steps are relative to that pluto placement....it is the underlying "˜double sword' which is then reflected in every house in the chart....
Metamorphosing the 6th pluto will give the right "˜order' the right underlying understanding relative to the original misunderstanding (relative to lilith conj. pluto)
BUT be careful for evil (lucifer is conj. lilith and pluto!!!) is trying to KEEP YOU DOWN to induce false guilt and to induce RAGE on the soul level because of it, and so that rage then INDUCES the soul to act out of the rage itself...causing REAL guilt again.....that's the mars in taurus skipped step, that's the FALSE understanding and the reaction to that false blinded understanding relative to the original confusion.....On that note: this was extremely emphases during the last 2000 years via the judeo chrisitian era....the more you were "˜trying to do' what has been said was right the more rage accumulated in the soul for the WAYS that you bought into as self improvement etc. were of course wrong in essence.....in the last 2000 years were increasingly locking your soul in the skipped steps....going nowhere...neptune is retro so there has been a lot of effort to understand what the heck god (of course the patriarchal god) really wants and a lot of rage because of it....increased suppression of the heart and of the senses etc. etc....but that's just the last chapter on top of the already existing total confusion before that time.....
So that all needs to be sorted out step by step (6th house) ....neptune retro in scorpio as well as urania in your 6th in 0 libra point to the way of liberation of this confusion...
Remember it is okay to see with the heart even if it hurts! It will heal it will become whole again once you go through a metamorphosing healing journey....
Evil blinded you in two ways: making you feel guilty for what wasn't at all wrong, and then once your heart was ripped apart, making you believe it is self defence and the only way to exist is if you act "˜without heart' raging in the world for that blown out, lost heart...raging at god in essence for creating this "˜hell' so to speak....
.....embrace your heart back, CHOSE love again, find the joys of being loved and being able to love, for there is indeed nothing else real 'value' in creation.... ...the misunderstanding was believing that this was the problem........BUT chose to love the Source ABOVE anything else......everythig esle is just a reflection......so on that base you can forgive for the illusions of the "˜maya' forgive for all who hurt you and realise your heart can NOT BE lost....it's the essence of all of us.....neptune is the higher octave of venus.....those who hurt you at the first place have been cought up in the illusion on their own ways.... they too have been confused just as you became after the facts....
But it is the HEART of the issue to understand that you soul isn"˜t evil and didn't want anything wrong at the first place......it just wanted to love and be loved and it served that love....it just done it in the wrong way..it was a bit blind out of confusing human love with divine love.....this was perhaps god/ess"˜ way to teach you the difference ....ppp. in pisces in the 12th......so in the bigger picture this is just a lesson to embrace....to step into fully the spiritual state.....
OOOPS:-) says the soul in eternity:-).....while here in life within the manifested creation that "˜oops' can take a few thousand years of total confusion:-)...but at the end that"˜s all it is...a misunderstanding we need to recover from........
So if you can see it that way....and chose to embrace back your heart.......improvement will come to you if you allow yourself to fully open your heart again, to love again and allow others to love you again.....it just needs to be done differently than in the past.......so yes to family, yes to loved ones, yes to children, yes to life, BUT remember the whole lot is ruled by what? your leo 5th is ruled by sun in cancer and sun is ruled by that PPP. conj. MOON! It is all Divine Mother who manifest through it all...even through you, your confused sense of self image......so see Her behind the illusions, find security within via your love for HER in all it's manifestation but never mix up the order again...put HER first and everything else comes after that......
On a personal level, placing the moon into it's polarity points to the deep emotional healing you need...then you can understand what Divine mother wants you to do....it would be sure some form of healing work but only after you healed yourself....
Hope this makes sense??
(and sorry again for the long windedness:-)) I'll shut up for another week :-))
Love and blessings,
Lia
I was reading and rereading the closing portions of Lia's post, and the following sentance created a 'boing' within me.
Quote
So if you can see it that way....and chose to embrace back your heart.......improvement will come to you if you allow yourself to fully open your heart again, to love again and allow others to love you again.....
I suddenly remembered those times when the Mother came to me, and my heart burst (way too) open (...for me), and I was sitting in pain and sorrow and poignancy and love and self-hate and the Mother's over-riding LOVE of me, and I wrote the following in my journal, in order to TRY to remember this sense of absolute love. For, unfortunately, when this comes over me, it seems the most important thing ever, but when it goes away, it takes with it all memories of its coming, until the next time it comes, when I think, 'Oh, how oh how could I have forgotten THIS?'
from my journal:
Early early this morning, in the dark predawn, I was thinking upon love, and its vastness eluded me. So, then, I contemplated Love "¦ but with my heart only, and my mind mercifully switched off to my own condition. I suddenly found my heart wondering, "˜what was it that I forgot, and so still am forgetting to feel?' And then, miraculously:
Suddenly, i have remembered the Great Mother's Love for me"¦Her opened Heart embracing, an absolute and unconditional Love for me. Even as i feel the Love, my heart swells, and yet carries within it the very fear of losing Her Love. For, each time Her Love comes, Her Love is absolute, and more real than my own bones now within me. Yet, every time it leaves, i soon forget it, and forget all-too-soon again even the memory of it. i am too small. i only remember to dwell on the pain i have allowed into this life.
The absence of Her Love is not as terrible as the fear of losing Her Love when it is that i am feeling it, for in the absence of Her Love, mind and heart blanks, dimmer and dimmer, into numbness of memory and hardness of heart. Mind speaks, and the heart no longer listens for Her. Oh why is it that my mind cannot learn what it MUST KNOW, what even my heart too soon forgets: that i can never lose Her Love, as i am only temporarily (and yes voluntarily) removed from Her while i am in this flesh.
The greatness of Her is Her Absolute Love; the smallness of me is my abiding fear. i would have the fear, and have it instant by instant, if only to be allowed to taste of a memory of this penetrating and encompassing Love.
When i open to Her continuing Love, i realize what it is that i forget at all other times: She is true and steadfast, is ever aware of me, and cares not what i say or do, or what i have ever said or done. She is only aware of THAT peripherally, and only because i continue to carry it. If i was to drop that, and carry it no more, then She would again be unaware of it,
for She does not care about that!, and knows it
only because i continue to know it.
She loves me (and all of us); She supports me (and All of us); She is always there for me (and All of Us); She is eternally Loving, and shall
never remove that Love (from ANY of US!)
She is a fuzzy embracing softness and a gentle pervasive heat. She enfolds us, quickly, at
our will and wish, and stays away, but
only at our wish and will. She is ever eager to come to us, and, in fact, waits just beside us for us to call. She waits in yesterday, in case we look back, and is already there in tomorrow eager for us to come to Her"¦to call Her to be near us. And so it is"¦for ALL of Us.
To enter Her Heart is to allow Her to enter mine.
Seek Her Heart, and She will find yours,
and so, looking within, you will find Her in your heart"¦
and you will know Her as Love itself.
Her Heart is why our hearts beat.
Her Love is why we each can know love.
Know that you are Loved, absolutely.
See your self through Her Eyes,
feel your self with Her Heart,
and so Love your self"¦absolutely"¦
To those who have interest,
I was trying to capture an emotional feeling that I could embed within my own heart in order to (please please) remember the depth of the Great Mother's Absolute Love (as mentioned in my previous post). Here is what I came up with...for me.
Blessings to All who Read This,
Stephen
Imagine your mother, and you are small, troubled and troubling, and you run to her, in your pain and confusion, since you have hurt yourself, and hurt another, and hurt yourself in your own hurting of another, and so you are in pain, and guilt, and self-loathing, and self-defiance, and angry at yourself for hurting someone, and angry at yourself for your own weakness in being hurt and feeling anger because of it...and you leap into (and at) your mother, and somewhat slam into her chest, all fury and hurt and elbows and anger and pain and knees and loathing and breathless with a tight heart-filled chest and hot tears just behind your eyes and a grimace stretching your face, all unknown to yourself...and you cling to her, and press yourself into her and through her even if you can, holding soooo tight, and you are small and chilled, and she is large and warm, and you look up into her face, is she angry? for you leaping at her squeezing her hurting her hurting the other hurting yourself ... ?
And...she is smiling down upon you, a gentle smile with her head tilted oh so slightly to the side, and she squeezes you even closer smiling her love into your heart and looking into your eyes looking through your eyes into the very soul of you reminding you of your very soul by the extreme brilliance of her own soul looking deeply into yours... the memory of the hurt and the anger and the pain cannot be remembered in that pure love unconditional acceptance for you, who you are, what you are, what you do, what you have done...
There is no need for absolution, for she cares not what you have done, there is no need for forgiveness, for she knows that you are you and she absolutely loves you for it, there is no space between you, for now you know - She is more than your earthly mother, for you have forgotten, It is Her!, She is the very essence of mothering, She is the archetype of nuturing and tolerance and acceptance and LOVE, there is no judgement, for She is not of that mind, and She Herself does not know that mind of being judgement...the only judgement comes from your own self, and so in the intense Light of Her Love you choose to drop that judgement of yourself, and you see that She sees you drop that and you feel forgiveness for yourself, there in Her arms, in the embrace of the very Great Mother of the Cosmos...
Do you not snuggle further into Her embrace...this Great Mother of the Cosmos, who birthed you and all others and everything? You know Her as the feminine face of the Divine, and you are Her Beloved Child.
Anyway, THAT is what I came up with....
Blessings,
Stephen
Quote from: Lia on Jun 26, 2009, 08:21 PM
But if we understand the fact that north node (of moon) conj. venus in leo in 5th, while venus itself ALSO conj. to its own south node in leo (but it falls to the 4th house) it becomes clear that the past and the present comes in 'full circle' regarding venus in leo.....it is about both, self actualisation and the issues of the 'heart'.....while the neptune skipped step is the higher octave of venus....sun ruler of both the south node of venus and current venus/conj. north node, it becomes clear that the soul is destined to "go back" somewhere and start a new cycle within this symbolism ...but it's intended to do it now in a different way....for it's not a circle it is a spiral, the evolutionary spiral on which we reach a higher level as we go 'around'.....coming back means we have come to full circle and we are now on a different level.....
Neptune's resolution node is the north node in 5th in leo conj. venus: it is to do with the need to re-open and renew the heart but in a different way......while mars resolution node is the s.node; to join groups once again but now those groups that truly serve humanity, not just say so; that bring indeed liberation not just promise so....for THAT was the individual understanding (uranus) and the belief (neptune) of the soul....
Saturn and neptune are retro in the chart...
Mars is ruled by venus (in the present as well as in the past!) Mars' south node is libra 7th house; the outer side of venus in the past, and the inner side of venus in the present via the taurus mars......so we are going back to venus in many different ways....the soul is destined to come back and resolve the underlying 'heart issues' and 'self actualisation' issues, to be able to do it in the right way......behind which is the inner and outer relationship with oneself and with others ....question is what is the base for any of these relationships?
.....that's what the sun's ruler moon in pisces in 12th conj. ppp trying to teach: the divine must come FIRST and everything comes only AFTER that .....if that lesson is not resolved the misplaced trust and the wrongly projected ideals will continue along with the confusion/disillusionment/trauma/anger/guilt so all the grand cross patterns ...
Thank you so very much for this further information Lia!
The clarity that you are continuing to provide me makes it so much easier for me to understand my path.
I have been telling my wife for some time now, 'If only I knew
what to do, I would apply my personal intensity to
do it!'
Quote
Neptune's resolution node is the north node in 5th in leo conj. venus: it is to do with the need to re-open and renew the heart but in a different way...... the soul is destined to come back and resolve the underlying 'heart issues'
When I 'crack open' my heart a bit, a flood of devastating emotions has
always come out, and totally overwhelmed me, and I shrink away. So...for now, until I am able to budget some type of help with this issue (it is
always hard for me to ask for help), I am just sitting with the pain and the emotions, using the one-two breathe technique as described by JWG. Additionally, I place my palms over my heart and give myself Reiki...
Quote
......while mars resolution node is the s.node; to join groups once again but now those groups that truly serve humanity, not just say so; that bring indeed liberation not just promise so....for THAT was the individual understanding (uranus) and the belief (neptune) of the soul....
Perhaps the
group mentioned is the EA Community? I haven't reached out to join a group since the intensity of the Martial Arts days, but even within those groups, due to the ALPHA(male) syndrome, those groups often simple became 'groups of one' if you know what I mean...?
So, on that note, I would like to again express my thanks to the EA Community for the inclusion and sharing and acceptance for all of us who wind up on the EA Doorstep, so to speak.
Blessings to the EA Community,
and to All who Wander by and read this,
Stephen
Hi Everyone,
In my chart, all the planets (and most of the planetary nodes) are in the 'natural houses' with respect to the sign on that house cusp, with the exception of the Sun, as follows:
Moon...12th Pisces
Mercury...3rd Gemini
Venus...5th Leo
Sun...3rd CancerMars...2nd Taurus
Jupiter...12th Pisces
Saturn...11th Aquarius
Uranus...5th Leo
Neptune...8th Scorpio
Pluto...6th Virgo
S.Node...5th Leo
N.Node...11th Aquarius
Can anyone tell me: What is the meaning of having the Sign and the House coincide in this way? (Not only in my chart, but conceptually, so that I can apply that concept to future charts, as well...)
Blessings,
Stephen
(http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/images/Stephen2.gif)