School of Evolutionary Astrology Forum

Hi everyone!

I am re-starting the practice thread over here so that we can start on a fresh page so to speak. We have over 30 people so far who are participating, so the more organized the better! If you're just coming in now you are invited to join in. Just let me know on the other thread so I can keep tabs of who is here.
Other thread (now renamed: Roll call for new EA beginners practice thread) https://forum.schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/index.php/topic,1639.msg73998.html#msg73998 (https://forum.schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/index.php/topic,1639.msg73998.html#msg73998)

Since some of us are completely new to EA, I feel that the best approach is start with presenting all of the introductory teachings here from the ground up. I'll give us a few days or so to review this material before we start actual practice so that we can really devote our attention to this learning opportunity.

Thank you for joining and for this opportunity to share in community with you! As always feel free to ask any quetsions.

What qualifies EA as soul work is that the entire practice orients around the evolution of the soul. And so, I'd like to start by summarize the core teachings about the soul and evolution before I even bring in any astrology. In this post we'll learn about the soul, evolution, the nature and function of desire, involution, the relationship between the soul and the ego, the psychology of cooperation vs resistance and the four general ways evolution happens.

I'm sharing all this in my own words. I encourage you to read as well the intro to EA and coninue on to read the articles under The Essence of Evolutionary Astrology http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/ (http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/)

*****

Soul
If you consider yourself now in comparison to who you were 10 or 20 years ago, of course you'll recognize that you have changed in many ways. And yet, the one who is currently looking through your eyes is the same one who has always been looking through your eyes. That one is of course you. You've been the one looking through your eyes for your whole life. And yet this you isn't the "you" of your self-concept, because your self-concept has certainly changed over the years. Rather, this is the eternal you that has always been through all life phases, regardless of what you thought about yourself. This is the you that existed before you came into this life and will exist after your body dies.

We'll call you a soul. The soul manifests itself in this human life and forms a self-image (we can also call that an ego structure). It comes to know itself in human terms and to various degrees will identify as a human. This is the story we are all familiar with.

Buy why? Why this life? Why do we each come into the specific human bodies, self-concepts, lifetimes and circumstances that we each come into? Why the total nature of our lives as they are?

Desire
The causative factor for the totality of the life we each come into is desire. Consider that when you leave this body behind, what do you take with you? Not the body and not any of the relationships and things of the life you lived. What remains is the emotional resonance within you. Unresolved desire carries on. This sets the stage for what we come into in each life and points to the underlying "why" behind the totality of our life experience.

The fixation of desire is POWERFUL. It's an impelling force that literally brings us into this world. We cannot control it and most of us are dimly even aware of it.

What we are aware of are the manifestations: the people, places and things of our lives. We are also aware, but often to a lesser degree, of our emotions. What we are even less frequently aware of is the WHY behind the phenomenal experiences and the emotions that arise. To understand the "why" we have to acknowledge that everything in life reflects our own soul-level desires back to us. The soul is the program for our entire life. There are no exceptions to this. Understanding this is a matter of looking deep, behind the scenes, to a soul-level resonance of why we came into this life in the first place.

Acknowledging this is the source of empowerment because it means that we regard no experience as having power over us, but rather that we recognize the evolutionary potential; the potential for growth and greater self-knowledge inherent in every experience. Self-knowledge then becomes the determinant for the ability to make new choices.

To fully understand this teaching, we need to understand the relationship between soul and ego.

Desire yeilds self-image
As we focus desire towards new experience, our self-concept (or ego structure) naturally follows. The ego is like a satellite to the soul. Wherever the soul directs desire, an ego structure is formed accordingly.

The soul, via identification with the existing ego structure, will not necessarily understand the "why" behind all the life experiences. Ego structure is always limited in its capacity to self-reflect because its only existence is actually just to facilitate the desires emanating from the soul itself. Beyond that, ego has no innate intelligence on its own. This is important to understand because since all of us here are not 100% soul-identified, we will not always have immediate access to clear psychological self-knowledge and insight. It might not be clear for example, "why did I choose to be bullied in school?" or "why did I come into these parents." Obviously you didn't "cloose" your parents in the same way that you chose to eat pizza last night.

So it's important that we keep in mind that when we look for the "why", we are going beyond ego to the level of the soul where the context is far deeper and more relevant than what any ego structure can apprehend.

Let's consider an example of this that will help illustrate this teaching. This example will also introduce the idea of evolution.

A teenage boy who gets bullied in school develops a desire to become strong and resilient, so he begins working out and grows big muscles. What does this illustrate? It illustrates that as a function of desire, this soul made changes in its life and thus began to think of itself differently (desire yielding appropriate ego structure).

Over time, this boy becomes increasingly interested in achieving personal fitness goals and even finds that he has the ability to accel in fitness. He becomes increasingly interested in chiseling the perfect body and becomes more and more interested in how he looks. He even realizes that he can easily attract members of the opposite sex. As he grows older into his adulthood, he eventually becomes a well-known workout guru and even achieves a certain level of fame and wealth.

What next? Well many things can happen. Obviously, no experience or state of being is the end goal. For example, the caterpillar might be doing great but EVERYTHING has to go at some point. There comes a point where every form has played its course. This means that a part of the evolutionary process isn't just the becoming something new, but also the dropping of something when it is no longer needed or relevant.

Lets give two possible versions of what happens next to our self-made fitness guru.

In one version he ends up abusing his power and fame and takes advantage of women clients. Scandals come out about his behavior, and to protect his image he denies all of it. He eventually dies (leaving behind the body, the money, the fame) but carries with him the attachments, the vulnerability, the pride, the fear, the body identification, the distrust, the possessiveness.

So what happened in that lifetime? He learned that he had the power to change himself and prove to be what he perceived as strong and resilient. But he became so identified with it that he was unwilling to grow and evolve when evolutionary timing came knocking on his door.

In another version of this story, once the scandals come out he becomes self-reflective and realizes that he has in fact become the bully he used to be abused by. Realizing this, he starts to orient his consciousness towards a new understanding of power, resilience and invulnerability. He develops humility and desires to release himself of attachment to all external forms of validation. When he leaves this world he takes that inner reality with him.

Exhaustion of all desires
Lets formally introduce the principle of evolution. Jeffrey Wolf Green often described soul evolution as the progressive exhaustion of all desires until the only desire that remains is the desire to unite with God (the source of creation, love, NOW). Exhaustion of desire means just that. It has no fuel left, it's done. None of us jump to the Source - we all go through lifetimes upon lifetimes and phases upon phases of playing out our desires, growing from them, reaching the limits of growth possible, letting go (hopefully) and moving on to the next phase. Desires are the lifeblood of incrnation in that they affect growth and change as it propells the soul to osmose with new relationships and experience in order to find within what it perceives to be outside. But all desire must also be released at some point. You can tell that the fitness guru generated the desire to become more: to grow and develop strength and resilience in ways he otherwise felt he didn't have. So he set on the path to do that and created the kind of human life that he created. But as we saw, that is just a phase of experience, it's not the end goal. Nothing is except for God. In our second scenerio, upon letting go of the fixation on power and fame he began to set the stage for a new level of experience emenating from a new desire nature. This might create a whole new lifetime which will of course present its own challenges for growth and so on and so on...

As the desire to return to Source predominates, it becomes like a focal point that accelerates evolutionary developments. It's progressively realized that now is always enough and God is all that's needed. Consider further that God doesn't exist in time, God only exists now. Desire is the bottom line that determines one's evolution.

Evolution is an ongoing process of the soul becoming progressively identified as itself. This reflects the growing desire within the soul to know it's oneness with the Source, which reflects the true nature of each soul.

4 ways evolution happens
JWG taught that evolution can be affected in 2 general ways. Cataclysmic and non-cataclysmic. Non cataclysmic can happen in two ways: slow uniform or more impactful. Slow and uniform is the boy is walking down the street and comes across a poster of a workout class. He never thought of it before but there is some kind of impression being made in his consciousness. Maybe he doesn't make any changes just yet, but after enough of these experiences he finds himself becoming consciously interested in fitness. He starts thinking of it more. This creates a field of greater attraction in which the soul begins resonating to itself more of what it is fixating on. Eventually these gradual experiences lead to him making a change. This is slow and gradual.

Another example of non-cataclysmic evolution is simply the experience of something manifesting in our lives that has a deep and empowering impact upon us. This can be a lover, a life changing lecture we attended, something that really penetrated our awareness deeply enough to result in an evolutionary process. An example of this might be attending a talk on the benefits of daily workout routine and subsequently becoming aware of latent skills, abilities or options to make choices that we otherwise did not perceive were possible.

Cataclysmic evolution can happen in two ways as well. The first is anything in our life that triggers our deepest vulnerabilities, fears, attachments and dependencies to what we perceive we need from the outside. This is often associated with loss and death in various forms. An example of this could be a well-known magazine that publishes an article about the fitness guru's secret sex scandal. This leads to a break down of the construct this soul had created: it challenges the existing self-image, which itself was the vehicle for whatever desires the soul was playing out. Such evolutionary processes are usually very challenging and take a while to integrate on the basis that the soul has to deal with letting go of its attachments, often before it "thought" it was ready. This points to the principle that evolutionary necessity doesn't care about our personal preferences. It's the will of life itself.

Another example of cataclysmic evolution is a far more internal process wherein consciousness becomes deeply reflective on the need to become self-aware but can't quite reach it. It's like being stuck in a life pattern, relationship dynamic, addiction, a mental state but not being able to escape from it. This can be incredibly difficult. Holding on to strong emotional attachments, in its grip but not quite able to get beyond it. The desire to evolve progressively creates a deepening point of concertation wherein the soul eventually gets to the core of it all and everything begins to unravel. This can be quite powerful and intense.

Remember that desire, being the program for our life experience, doesn't just mean we become more concentrated. It means that life itself becomes more concentrated with us.

Involution
When the caterpillar reaches its evolutionary limit that means it has to go. But it has not yet come to know itself in the new form. This is the involutionary phase, which always precedes evolution. For the caterpillar, the chrysalis phase is the involutionary process. It's the process of the old form ending. The invoutionary process isn't necessarily easy as it requires a total shedding and letting go. We can't hold on to what is dying, no matter how hard we try. The old ego structure/ self-reference doesn't hold the same weight anymore. What emerges next is the evolutionary change: the new form.

When a soul exhausts desires, the ego will follow suit because the ego does not exist independent of the soul's fixation of desire. Depending on whether it is resisted or not, whether it feels like it is being "forced" upon oneself in a cataclysmic way or is happening in a more gentle way, the soul will either hold onto it's known ego structure or shed it and move on. This leads us to consider the two basic ways a soul can respond to evolutionary necessity:

Cooperation vs Resistance
What comes will go. What comes reflects what is relevant to our own soul growth at the time. What goes reflects what is no longer relevant. Evolution is marked by the soul choosing to cooperate with evolutionary necessarily as opposed to resisting it. Resisting takes the stance of wanting to control what cannot be controlled. It requires a great deal of effort and manipulation. Resisting means not letting go when its time to let go. It means insisting on getting what you want and doing whatever you deem necessary in order to get it.

It's worth noting that the psychology of victimization is born from resistance to evolutionary necessity. The psychology of victimization, in virtue of its overt intensity, serves as a potential stepping stone to self-awareness and self-responsibility. However, based on the gift of free will which is given to each soul, a soul can in fact choose to resist indefinitely. Resistance is a particular focus of desire and thus creates its own kind of ego structure that will interact with the world in such a way as to give validity to its resistance. Since resistance is contrary to the universal law of evolution, life will continue to reflect back to the soul the truth of its inner reality which will provide for the soul ongoing opportunity to either become self-aware, or to dig deeper into resistance.

Cooperation on the other hand means accepting the inevitable and doing what is necessary. This might look many different ways because in the human experience the "next steps" are very individuated to each soul's journey. But the psychology of it is the same in each case. The psychology of cooperation is a stream line of concentration to do what one knows is necessary. It resonantes a true empowerment becuase the soul is taking their own growth in their own hands.

Two forms of desire
While desire is the bottom line, there is a limit to everything. The caterpillar is playing out its desires but it cannot do that indefinitely. This is the force of evolution which is impersonal and stronger than anything we can control. The force of evolution says everything changes except for the changeless. Nothing is eternal except for the eternal. This force is impelling and it is inherent within each one of us, within each soul, to recognize it's call. This force says that everything has its purpose and will not last indefinitely.

Jeff Green taught that there are two types of desires (and thus ultimately there are only two types of choices). One is the desire to return to Source, the other is the desire to separate from Source. The desire to return to Source reflects an orientation of cooperation with evolutionary necessity. These desires will reflect itself in a willingness to do what it takes, to move on to the next phase of life, let go when its time to let go etc. The desire to separate from Source reflects itself in a persistent fixation on what is ephemeral and the need to maintain control. It is resistance to evolutionary necessity.

We all know the flux between these two desires. We know what it's like to direct our attention towards what is evolutionary; it feels relevant to our own soul growth even if its hard. We also know what its like to invest ourselves in what is non-evolutionary; it creates a breeding ground for negativity.

The fitness guru evolved by way of realizing his power to become strong and resilient in his body. But in trying to set up shop there forever he breeds the psychology of resistance. These are separating desires: desires that are fixated on what the soul perceives it needs to control and maintain. However, in taking responsibility for the changes in his life by way of becoming aware of his own inner psychology, he demonstrates willingness to let go of his fixation on fame and power in the way he was attached to it. This allows the old form to die which allows the soul to continue to grow and move on.

The desire to return to source expresses itself via any desires that are relevant to our evolutionary needs at the time.

These two desires within the soul, the desire to return to Source and the desire to seperate from Source, are antithetical: they do not make any sense together and we can only choose one or the other. Remember that Source, God, Love, Truth is all right now. The path is always right now. And so the desire to evolve demonstrates itself in the present moment. The choices we make, not necessarily the external expression (i.e. deciding between penut butter or cream cheese) but the underlying inner orientation we bring to life is what determines the degree of our soul evolution. Again, desire is the bottom line.

Stages of Evolution
This is an essential teaching in Evolutionary Astrology. Please read about the 4 evolutionary states from the Essence of Evolutionary Astrology series: http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/essence-of-ea/the-four-evolutionary-states (http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/essence-of-ea/the-four-evolutionary-states)

Later today I will post about Pluto and the lunar nodes as they relate to all these teachings on the soul and evolution.

Pluto
Pluto represents the desire nature of the soul itself. Pluto in our charts reflects:

-   The kinds of desires the soul has had in the past that has lead to the creation of this lifetime. Pluto can thus be understood as the bottom line; the program that gives rise to the totality of our life experiences.
-   In the current life, Pluto thus reflects the bottom-line evolutionary dynamics that are manifesting. Pluto is our dna.
-   Pluto represents evolutionary necessity: it says everything that comes is relevant and everything that goes is not. The need to commit to experience and play its course (caterpillar needs to do its thing) until its time to let go (until its time to not be a caterpillar anymore). How we either cooperate or resist evolutionary necessity is up to each one of us.
-   Pluto reflects the two kinds of desires inherent to the soul: the desire to separate from Source or the desire to return to Source.
-   Pluto implies cycles of evolution and involution: the need for the old to completely die before the new can come.
-   Pluto corresponds to cataclysmic and non-cataclysmic evolutionary processes.  
-   Pluto represents our deepest fears, insecurities, attachments and psychological limitations.
-   Pluto points to where the greatest fundamental changes can happen in our lives.

Cooperation and resistance
The two antithetical desires of the soul: the desire to separate or return to source, point to the very heart of free will, of each soul's ability to choose to cooperate or resist evolutionary necessity.

Relative to our conscious sense of self (ego-structure), most of us are dimly aware of the evolutionary directive of our lives and are thus dimly aware of "why" certain things have manifested and are currently manifesting in our lives. We cannot control evolutionary necessity any more than we are able to control the conditions of our human birth. The only thing we really can control is whether or not we will cooperate or resist. From the point of view of Pluto, of evolutionary necessity, those are really the only two choices we can make.

Consider the implications of that. To cooperate means playing along with the intelligent force of creation that has its own agenda so to speak. The Caterpillar isn't in charge of its destiny, but it needs to do what has it do. To cooperate points to an acceptance of inevitable change that is beyond our conscious making, and doing what is necessary, shedding the old, merging with the new. The soul is designed to recognize and move towards the Source. Our determination to trust and progressively put soul identification first sets a focus for accelerated evolutionary growth.

Relative to the psychology of cooperation, Pluto corresponds to where a soul can develop or come into this life already with a strong sense of empowerment: the ability to withstand change, challenging circumstances, loss, meeting their deepest fears and attachments with agency and the ability to glean self-awareness. Such souls embody the capacity to share, to be vulnerable, to face their darkness and that of others. To deeply honor the process of involution where one knows that death is something that just has to happen.

In general, Pluto type souls are often very psychological adept: understanding the psychology of attachment and control, craving and aversion. They are often keen at perceiving the deeper psychological root for what's going on in people's lives behind the scenes.

Relative to the psychology of resistance, Pluto corresponds to where there is the potential or existing tendency to live in fear and control. To resist evolutionary necessity means refusing to take responsibility for one's inner reality and fundamentally distrusting the natural law of evolution. Death happens, loss happens. To let go means one is willing to move on, knowing that true power lies just on the other side. Resistance can also take the expression of resisting getting out of unhealthy dynamics or relationships which will result in giving over one's divine agency to something or someone outside of oneself.

Pluto points to the psychology of manipulation, being manipulated and entanglements where sovereign life fore energy is "held up" in something external to oneself. At worse, the Pluto psychology of resistance can express as souls that have chosen over many lifetimes to chronically live in a state of victimization and thus believing that they need to manipulate others in order to get what they feel they are entitled to.

Pluto polarity point
While natal Pluto represents where the soul came into this life and where all the evolutionary activity will be, the polarity point to Pluto (the point opposite Pluto) is the evolutionary purpose of the current life.

Consider that in virtue of being opposite the very place where we tend to hold on the most and resist change (Pluto), the Polarity point represents the greatest threat to the psychology of resistance. To consciously direct attention towards the Pluto polarity point is to defacto choose to evolve because it immediately takes us out of the place we tend to resist the most.

Let's illustrate this with an example. To generalize, what is the psychology of resistance to evolution relative to a Pluto in the 7th house signature? This can be dependency on other people, pleasing others, entangling one's energy in relationships rooted in the obsessive need to source security from others' approval or to manipulate relationships such that others are dependent upon oneself.

In this case, what's the Pluto polarity point? The 1st house. The 1st house represents self-direction, independence, autonomy, personal individuation. For consciousness to be directed towards the 1st house means letting go of the obsessively "other" oriented 7th house attachment and directing attention to one's own freedom to choose, independent of others.

To be really clear, this doesn't mean you're supposed to become a Pluto in the 1st house. It means that each house in astrology offers the possibility to become hooked and entangled in the psychology of resistance via attachments, cravings, aversions obsessions etc. to that which is ephemeral. When we evolve, no matter where Pluto is, it means turning towards the soul itself and away from the perceived outward object focus.

Embracing the polarity point in the 1st house can play out in many ways throughout a soul's lifetime. For example, it can reflect itself in saying "no" in an otherwise entangled relationship or differentiating one's life path from one's partner to whom one was otherwise dependent upon. It can express as a conscious choice to do what one needs to do for oneself for their own growth regardless of other people's opinions or approval or regardless of what others are wanting of them or projecting onto them.

Some Pluto in the 7th house souls have a compulsive need to always be in relationship as well as a compulsive need to be needed. In such cases, the 1st house polarity can represent the conscious choice to go it alone, to free oneself of the need to be dependent on others.

The 1st house polarity can be a very scary place to move into for a 7th house Pluto soul. It means the soul will not be able to control others. If I will be liked, if I will be left, if they will stay or leave, what they will think of me. This is why the polarity point is so powerful and signifies cooperation with evolution: it creates a focal point through which what is meant to stay will stay and what is meant to go will go. Cooperation with evolution means we let go of controlling outcome.

Ultimately, embracing the 1st house polarity point has the potential to evolve an existing relationship where deep and authentic listening and giving can occur. It can create the space for a new experience of relationships that orient to listening and intimacy on a much deeper level than what one has previously known.

Interestingly, the more we hold on, the less we have. Whereas the more we let go, the more becomes available. Who would you rather share your deepest most vulnerable self with? Someone who needs you to depend on them so that they can feel secure in themself or someone who knows themself to be whole and sovereign within? The former cannot truly listen because they are bound by their desires. The latter, free of desire to make you something for their purposes, can truly listen because they have no personal agenda involved.

When we embrace the Pluto polarity point it implies empowerment and agency relative to the natal position of Pluto. Pluto in the 7th house souls that are embracing the 1st house polarity point will generally and progressively develop a deep and penetrating ability to listen, to understand other people's soul path and to engage in relationship consciously in a way that allows each individuals soul growth to be the predominant importance. These people can grow immensely and share in deeply powerful and healing relationships via their capacity to take responsibility for their own feelings and to understand that their wholeness can ultimately only come from within. These souls are learning that evolution is more important than attachments to other. These people can be soul counselors be very skilled at listening deeply.

Of course you can be a really skilled soul counselor and still have a whole lot of relationship issues. Evolution is an ongoing process. The four ways that evolution happens can occur throughout a person's life in various degrees.

Evolution is dynamic
I want to provide one more example to illustrate how dynamic evolution is.

Returning to the Pluto in the 7th example. This person might meet someone and gradually develop a relationship with that person. The caring touch, deep listening, sharing and being given to according to what they actually need can have a profound affect on the Pluto in the 7th house soul. The soul might find themself living with greater self-trust and self-permission to be who they are because of the gift of being so deeply accepted.

And yet this can easily set the stage for a cataclysmic evolution type situation. It's possible this relationship can become one of dependency where one partner is the counselor and the other is the patient. If this dependency becomes a habit it sets in motion the evolutionary necessity for that pattern to be broken up one way or another. If this pattern is being played out unconsciously and neither partner is willing to take resopnsibility for their own role in this, it can lead to conflict.

This is where embracing the polarity point is really important. 1st house polarity point: I'm not dependent on you to make me feel loved and acceptable to be myself. If I have the perfect relationship, I will remain comitted to my soul evolution. If I have a challenging relationship, I will remain comitted to my soul evolution.

A Pluto lesson is to not give too much heed to the comings and the goings. Some things will make us feel good, other things will make us feel bad. They both come and go. If our security depends on what makes us feel good and avoiding what makes us feel bad then we remain vulnerable to the inevitability of loss, abandonment, betrayal, death. If our security is directed towards what does not come and go, progressively unconcerned with gain or loss, then we can move through the cycles of change in our lives with greater ease and grace.

*****

I'll end this section on Pluto with an appropriate quote from Lao Tzu, translated by Stephen Mitchell.
"Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations."

Lunar Nodes and the Moon
Before we talk about the lunar nodes we need to start with understanding the nature and function of the Moon.

The Moon correlates to the ego structure the soul manifests in the current life. Again, the ego simply refers to our self-image. It's who you know yourself to be, what makes you know you are you and that I am me. Ego function is incredibly personal and intimate to each soul. Consider that when you are a child that your sense of security and wholeness depends entirely upon what is known, safe and familiar. A great spiritual teacher can incarnate and this soul will still have an ego structure and require to be held and loved like all souls that come into baby form.

Moon represents home and our emotional imprinting. The emotional memories that have imprinted our consciousness become the reference point for how we emotionally integrate our experiences moment to moment. If you grew up in an environment where you were told you are safe, welcome, loved and worthy, then you will more likely than not project a reality of safety when you leave that environment. If you grew up in an environment where your basic human needs for care and tenderness were neglected, you will most likely feel unsafe and insecure in most environments.

The Moon teaches us that NOTHING in life is real to us until it is integrated through the emotional body. An example I like to give is that of a dog. Have you ever walked into a room and with good intention extended love to a dog only to find the dog react in fear? Perhaps the dog hides its tail and runs away from you.

How to create a sense of safety with that dog? Certainly, being direct and confrontational would not make the dog feel safe. The only way to reach that dog is by respecting its existing ego structure. We would need to appreciate that there's no getting through to the dog if there is a mechanism of protection set up in its consciousness. And so, the thing to do is to be gentle, to create an environment of exposure wherein the dog can begin to acclimate to your presence and associate it with safety. An example of that might be just sitting in the same room but with your body faced in a different direction. This creates the imprint of "I'm here and I'm safe, I'm not trying to hurt you" without overwhelming the dog with too much exposure.

We are just like that. For us to be able to adopt to new experiences and learn from them we need to be able to feel safe enough to disarm and let it in.

Our Moon indicates this. If you have a Sagittarius Moon for example there is an emotional need to understand yourself and your life in a greater cosmological/philosophical/spiritual context. This context thus provides a reference point through which one is able to emotionally integrate its experiences. If there isn't a sense of safety, a tendency for a Sagittarius Moon might be to endlessly seek, wander, leave the emotional body in place for abstract thinking. If there is safety, the Sagittarius Moon can glean wisdom and insight from all experiences thus further informing their sense of self and their place in the world.

Wherever your Moon is, is the way we will emotionally integrate our experiences and thus find that we can live and grow right here where we are.

Relative to the core Pluto program: the program of evolution, we can understand the Moon in terms of how the soul is focusing itself as an individual human and thus serves as the subjective reference point through which the soul will integrate its evolutionary purpose.

Another way of saying that is: There's a reason, from the point of view of the soul, why we each received the specific emotional imprinting that we received. The Moon creates a very specific emotional filter through which the soul is integrating everything on its journey to make it real and personal.

Perhaps we'll have a chance to apply the Moon more in our practices later on. I only want to introduce the Moon now as a way to appropriately introduce the lunar nodes.

The reason why we must understand the Moon in order to understand the nodes, is that the nodes carry the same meaning of the Moon except they imply a context not just limited to the current life. Moon is THIS life, and thus is our present moment to moment point of emotional integration. But none of us come from nowhere. Before you were born from the mother you were born from, you existed in other incarnations, other lifetimes where you had a sense of self.

The emotional memories of these past identities are within the soul when it is born into this world. The soul comes into this world already with a sense of emotional familiarity relative to the past.

The south node of the Moon
The south node represents just that. It is who the soul has been, how it has consciously known itself prior to this life.

In the signature of the south node contains a holographic picture of many lifetimes and many expressions of a singular archetype. To have the south node in Taurus or the 2nd house doesn't mean that in all your past lives you were self-reliant, resourceful and that you have only emotional memories of being a hermit and living simply within your means. It can also reflect lifetimes of struggling with resources, karmic struggles with self-esteem and self-worth, a masturbatory/self-interest orientation to life, someone who maybe held onto their wealth or refused to let go of the familiar world they are used to because of the Taurian need for stability and continuity.

The south node, in the most basic way of understanding it, is the soul's pattern of self-identification. In total, the south node* points to the basic context for who the soul has been in past lives and thus the emotional familiarity and emotional memories the soul carries with itself into the current life.

*To be accurate, for a full understanding of the south node ego construct we would look at the south node by sign, house and aspects to other planets including the sign house and aspects of the planetary ruler of the south node. For those who are completely new to this work it's not necessary to know what aspects and planetary rulership is just yet. We'll get there.

The south node is not all bad or all good. It's at its core neutral and just says "this is what is known and familiar".

The south node is neutral and contains within it a plethora of lifetimes, identity expressions and possibilities all contained within the archetype of the south node (by house sign, aspects and house sign and aspects of the ruler of the south node). Jeffrey Wolf Green taught that the south node (as well as planets on the south node) manifest in 3 general conditions:

1.   Fruitive. Gifts from that past that are being brought forth to be used.
2.   Karmic re-live. The need to re-live unresolved dynamics relative to the south node
3.   Combination of both fruitive and karmic re-live.

The south node for most souls reflect the third condition.

The "why" behind the south node
As we have learned, nothing in life is superficial and there's always a reason for why things manifest the way they do. When we look at the south node we have to ask, "why that south node? Why that particular ego structure?" The answer is Pluto. The answer is the desire nature of the soul.

The ego is the satellite to the soul. Thus, the south node represents the way the soul has come into this world to enact experience as a way to pursue its evolutionary intentions. Thus within the south node we have implied both where the soul may have become empowered (south node as a vehicle for Pluto relative to the psychology of cooperation) as well as where the soul may be stuck in karmic sticky patterns (south node as a vehicle for Pluto relative to the psychology of resistance).

Example 1: Pluto in the 7th, south node in the 11th
Lets move right in to an example so that we can illustrate this as clearly as possible.

Lets return to our 7th house Pluto soul and give this soul a south node in the 11th house. What does this mean? On the level of identity, this soul comes into this lifetime with a history of being an 11th house person, living out 11th house experiences, playing the human game via the 11th house orientation.

On the level of identity 11th house south node can speak to past lifetimes were the soul knew itself through developing an objective consciousness that allowed them to see reality through the mind of observer. This can also speak to past lifetimes where a soul in various ways was liberating from known constructs that set them apart from friends, communities and groups of people that they were otherwise identified with. In the same way, the south in the 11th house can point to having been a part of exclusive communities or social groups that are elitist by the very nature. The soul may come into this life with unresolved trauma relative to having a been excommunicated, kicked out of the group and all kinds of experiences imprinting upon the soul the emotional memory of being different and not belonging. This soul might be strongly identified with fitting in and belonging. As a way to suppress their own individuality, they may have developed a habit of dissociation: to coast along with the crowd but to not be fully present as the result of suppressing their own individuality. Conversely, the soul can come into this world with a strong sense of individuality and genuinely not care what other people think.

All of this is very abstract and general at this point. Until we add evolutionary state and learn how to understand the reasons for the 11th house south node we won't know anything about how this south node has and is currently manifesting for the soul. So, let's apply Pluto to this. How do we understand the south node in the 11th house relative to a Pluto in the 7th soul program?

The Pluto position gives the underlying why, the underlying soul level context and reason for the soul's past incarnations leading up to this one. If in past lives the soul has had 11th house type identities and life experiences that have shaped who they know themselves to be, in order read a chart from a soul level place of understanding, you'll have to look to Pluto to understand the underlying reason behind that 11th house south node identity construct.

Since soul context is everything, we must give this soul an evolutionary state. We'll put the soul in the very beginning of the individuated stages of evolution - in fact really just transitioning out of the consensus stage and putting its toes in individuation. In the consensus stage the soul's desires are linked to social belonging according to consensus values. So, at this point this soul has been exhausting desires linked to concern with social judgment/ need to achieve success and stability relative to the consensus definition and accepted values of what that is supposed to look like. Their sense of security is shifting from external social acceptance focus (consensus state) to resting progressively secure in their own individuality, who they are on their own terms (individuated state).

So in a very general sense we can deduce from the south node in the 11th relative to Pluto in the 7th that this soul has known itself through their known community associations (11th house) and has needed to be belong to the point that they do not risk the possibility of being rejected, disapproved of or displeasing to others (core Pluto in the 7th fears). This soul may be a great listener, open minded and accepting of all people (7th house, 11th house: trine, social, inclusive, sharing) but will feel an inward need to suppress their own individuality on the basis that they are attached to what others think of them.

At this stage of evolution there is a natural pull of the soul towards individuation and the soul thus finds themselves often at a juncture between fitting in vs being themselves. It's a scary place for any soul. The fear of differentiating oneself from the community can be devastating. 11th house also corresponds to one's extended family. Do they inwardly feel like they can be themselves in their community/extended family? Are they conforming to a construct of relationship that fits the boxes of what is appropriate?

For example, if this person is a part of a traditional Chasidic Jewish community in Brooklyn New York, the 11th house south node will struggle with its identification with its community versus a calling to find themselves outside of the known context. Maybe they want to wear different clothing or maybe they have a desire to experiment with non-traditional relationships.

The initial impulse here is to try to individuate within the closed circle (11th house) of what is acceptable so that no one is displeased (Pluto 7th house). This of course is possible to an extent within the consensus state but if the soul's program is to evolve beyond that then there will be a limit to how far a the soul can go until they simply have to liberate beyond the limiting context.

There may be subconscious soul memories within this soul of having been rejected based on following their own soul individuality and not fitting in. This imprints a sense of trauma and fear relative to the idea of branching out. This soul might be interested in astrology (especially because they are naturally wired to look at people in objective and rational terms: 11th house, 7th house) but will be afraid to do so because astrology is not regarded as a valid practice in the consensus stage and will really set them apart from others.

This soul will be drawn (Pluto) to other people that they feel they can talk to openly without needing to conform to their expectations (a deep Pluto in the 7th house need relative to the 11th house suppression of individuality). They will be gradually attracted and attract to themselves opportunities to experience relationship that is outside of the known.

The juncture for evolution rests in the north node and the Pluto polarity point. I will take a break from this example and define these terms before continuing on.

North node and the Pluto polarity point
As a polarity to what is safe, known and familiar to the soul as signified by the south node (known identity construct), the north node represents an evolving context for self-identity for the soul to embrace throughout their evolutionary journey.

Note, there are many many cases where the north node as well as the south node represent known identity constructs that the soul brings into this life. As/if you continue to study EA you will come across these situations and continue to develop a more holistic understanding of the nodes.
Ultimately, we are not leaving the south node behind and moving towards the north node. We are leaving attachment behind and continuing to evolve. This is an important distinction. Evolution isn't just replacing one nodal identity for its opposite; it's resolving the past (which translates to not taking it with us in the present moment) and growing beyond our previous limitations. When the past is resolved, we keep what is true and eternal and move on according to our soul program.

To keep it simple for now, the north node represents the soul's evolutionary trajectory. It's how the soul is learning to see itself and thus view their life. The north node is a direction in life for the soul to consciously choose. For many souls the north node can be a point of emotional resistance since the south node is where the soul will feel the most comfortable (at home) and tend to default towards.

From this point of view, we can understand that the north node defacto activtes the Pluto polarity point. The north node, being opposite the south node, implies conscious choice to think and act differently beyond what is known, safe and familiar, which implies that the soul is not grabbing onto the past and resisting evolutionary necessity (south node relative to natal Pluto). When this happens, a soul can embody the gifts of the south node without identifying with them.

The best way for me to illustrate this is to return to our example chart and look at the north node in the 5th house.

Pluto in the 7th, south node in the 11th, north node in the 5th
The 5th house north node is about becoming self-expressed, developing pride and confidence in who one is. The 5th house identity construct shifts predominant importance from fitting in to community (11th house) to claiming one's own unique creative expression (5th house). This soul will feel a calling to open their hearts to life in a fuller, more courageous way.

Thus, instead of dissociating (11th house) and becoming agreeable (relative to the 7th house Pluto) this soul will be learning to love themselves, to be excited about life and their own creative potential. They may decide to start wearing more colors, which will of course make them stand out from the crowd.

In this case the north node in the 5th house (creative actualization) activates the Pluto polarity point in the 1st house: making choices according to one's own soul directive and forgoing concern and attachment with approval. This thus sets in the Plutonian evolutionary lesson of watching what comes and watching what goes. As this soul gives conscious attention to their evolutionary path, relationships will change and new evolutionary dynamics will be set in motion.

This soul may ride the subway and see an advertisement for rehearsals for one of those America's Got Talent type TV shows. After seeing this advertisement enough this soul finds a strong pressure in themselves to go and finally rehearse to go on the show. They love writing pop songs but have kept most of it to themselves because they don't know anyone who would really appreciate it and see what they are really expressing.

Further, they feared being rejected and outcast if they shared their music too openly. Eventually, this soul decides to rehearse, dressed in orthodox garb but perhaps a bit more color, and sings their own original music. This soul gets chosen to go on the show and perform!
In this whole process, this soul meets people they never expected to meet. Their comfort zone is pushed - but they are exposed to people who are interesting and creative and open minded. This creates an imprint on the soul to learn progressively that they are safe to be themselves and that there are those who can accept and love them for who they are. At the same time, members of their community might respond with disapproval which can certainly set in motion a more cataclysmic evolutionary process depending on how solid this soul is in their own choice to evolve.

Relative to the Pluto in the 7th house attachments, being rejected for something that this soul loved so much can be incredibly devastating and set in motion an involutionary process of unraveling that may not be entirely comfortable.

In time, this soul learns to trust their own inner directive and begins living life more on their own terms. For a while they might not have any close relationships and might feel like there is no place for them. They will meet new people but feel isolated and alone since no one shares the same Chasidic context as themselves. The loneliness might impel them to get into a relationship with someone from their community who will be incapable of loving the soul for who they actually are. This in turn will ultimately serve to bring greater self-awareness to the soul of who they are and what their true soul needs are, thus enabling them to make choices from an empowered place, not from a place of seeking security from others. Then, once again the soul embraces their polarity point in the 1st house. In choosing to follow their own sense of special purpose (5th house) they claim the freedom to follow their own soul directive, free from entanglement with the "other" object focus of the 7th house (Pluto polarity point in the 1st).

Switch nodes: Pluto in the 7th south node in the 5th, north node in the 11th
Lets use this same example but switch the nodes so that we are learning this from various angles. Lets keep Pluto in the 7th and put the south node in the 5th house, north node in the 11th. Same evolutionary stage.

In this case the south node in the 5th house symbolizes a soul that has been focused on creative actualization, being seen, knowing themself as special, perhaps being the center of a group. Relative to the 7th house security rooted in other people, this soul has had a need to be adored, liked, respected and appreciated by others (5th house). This soul may have had a pattern of withholding love from those who did not respect them as a subconscious way to gain power over them (because for this soul, their own power can be entangled in needing other people to like them all the time), or on the other hand will know how to make others feel special so as to feel like they are being given to. All of this equaling dependencies on other people as the basis for their own security/ need to be needed. This soul might also be very generous, affectionate and loving. Perhaps good with children, playful, open hearted and one who shares freely and openly.

Now lest say this soul is a parent and one of their children announces that they are transgender and would like to begin hormone therapy. What do they do about that? That is certainly unacceptable according to consensus values, but it's just sort of culturally accepted enough that there are enough known parents out there who have been in similar situations.

At first this soul may react with indignation and disapproval of their child. Pluto in the 7th through the vehicle of a 5th house identity construct might have difficulty really seeing people according to their own unique natures because of a strong ego-centric sense of importance that clouds true listening. This 7th house Pluto soul might feel a deep sense of rejection and betrayal. This is because their own self-concept has been deeply entangled with the identity of their children to the point that there has been an expectation (7th house) that their children will always be a source of pride according to how this soul has projected their children to be.

This soul might angrily think to itself, "I gave you all this love and attention, I adored you, I poured all of my heart into you and now you want to throw it all away". That kind of thing. Ultimately, however the weight of separation and rejection might just gnaw at this soul's heart. Over time this soul may find themself researching parents of transgender children - not necessarily because they think they'll accept it but because they feel a draw to hear how other parents have dealt with this.

At some point this soul meets another parent who is incredibly open minded and tolerant. This parent expresses willingness to talk with this soul and share dialog. Through exposure to this other parent who is non-confrontational (thus vibrating a quality of acceptance and approval) the Pluto in the 7th house soul begins to relax their possessiveness of who their child should be.

Eventually this soul accepts their child's own path and even finds themself getting more involved in an online community of parents that support transgender children. This soul is learning to be detached (11th house) and not think of everything in terms of their own self. They are also learning to participate in community where giving, sharing, mutual help and support is the bottom line.

The 11th house north node activates the Pluto polarity point in the 1st house by way of this soul becoming objective enough (11th house) to separate their own soul path from that of others (1st house polarity point) and thus not identifying themselves with their child. This in turn affects the possibility for deeper intimacy, giving and true listening which are empowered expressions of a 7th house Pluto.

Hi commutniy,

Before we start practicing I feel it would be most helpful to offer a series of review/reflection questions. This is offered in mind specifically for those who are entirely new.

1. Explain the inherent relationship between soul and ego.

2. What are the two antithetical desires of the soul?

3. Why is cooperation or resistance with evolutionary necessity the only two choices a soul can make?

4. What is involution and why does it always preceed evolution?

5. Pluto can reflect evolutionary processes that we don't understand at the time. In retrospect, after the dust has settled, we are often able to glean insight and perspective of evolutionary necessity. Can you think of a time in your life where there were powerful Pluto type cataclysmic experiences that you only later were able to understand?

6. What is the relationship between Pluto and the suoth node of the Moon?

7. What is the relationship between the Pluto polarity point and the north node of the Moon?

8. Why is it necessary to connect first with the inner soul realy; where they are at in their own evolutionary journey before interpreting the chart?

Just a reminder, for those that aren't yet clear about this guidline pinned on the home page - we do ask that you abstain from asking questions about your own chart. Tune in and make sure your orientation is one of understanding the material. This way we will all benefit from everything that is shared here.

If you'd like feedback on any of these review questions, go ahead and post and of course feel free to ask any questions.

Ari, I can already tell this is going to be a great learning experience! I've read all the review and reflection questions (been studying EA for 5 years).  Just wanted to comment that the way that you word this very deep material is already helping me to communicate this material to others in a way they will understand. Am so ready to put this into practice! Thank you.

Linda

Now that we've layed down all the basic teachings I'd like to share some additional thoughts and personal reflections on the material.

As someone who has been practicing and teaching for about a decade now there are certain areas where I feel students get the most stuck or where I find the strongest preponderance of misunderstanding. Further, I find it important to be transparent about how I personally work with this material in my own practice. So I'd like to informally speak to this right now.

Evolutionary Stages
- The more a soul gives attention to their soul, to the desire to evolve, the deeper this affects evolutionary progression. Our actions and choices in life ultimately point us back to what it is we really want.

- Each of the evolutionary stages and their three substages can be further divided into 3 substages and so on. Just entering it, stabilizing in it, dissolving it. This is naturally reflected in the flow of energy in the zodiac from cardinal, fixed to mutable.

- Talent, skills, intellect etc have nothing to do with evolutionary stage. You can also be a jerk or kind at any level of evolution. What determines a soul's evolutionary stage is desire.

- Struggling with Saturn type issues does not mean a soul is in a consensus stage. Likewise a soul can be very Neptunian by nature (psychic, empathic, open crown chakra etc) but not be in the spiritual stage of evolution.

- A soul cannot be in two stages at once. You can't be in the spiritual stage when it comes to how you do relationships but consensus stage when it comes to how you deal with finances. We need to differentiate between a soul's level of evolution and specific karmic dynamics that are being resolved. The level of evolution is where the soul is at. Caterpillar is exactly where it is at on its journey. Karma on the other hand is diverse and very individuated according to the unique journey of each soul. Within each evolutionary stage, there are an infinite number of karmic conditions that might be manifesting for a soul.

- Further, the possibility of resisting or cooperating with evolutionary necessity is available and equally possible at any stage of evolution. A soul deep in the spiritual stages can create some messy karma for itself due to its resistance to evolution.

- A soul can be at a certain level of evolution and either not realize it, be hiding it, or simply be manifesting itself in an environment that does not seem to reflect its evolutionary stage due to all kinds of possible karmic or evolutionary reasons. It is pretty common in fact for souls who are in individuated or spiritual stages to grow up in a consensus environment. So we have to look behind the scenes and not judge according to appearances.

- In general, souls tend to incarnate in families with similar evolutionary stages. But this is not always the case.

Pluto polarity point
I feel inside to be transparent that this is something I don't generally work with in my own personal work. Sharing this allows me to be 100% here and authentic with you all.

Regardless of what you personally practice or resonate with, while we are here, my earnest suggestion is to stick with the core EA material you are being taught and to sincerely endeavor to do your best to apply it and practice it. This will yield immense benefit, as it has done for me and so many others. Beyond that, we all find our own way with astrology which is of course natural.

The Pluto polarity point is true in my experience, and of course I wouldn't be teaching it if I didn't feel that way. It just hasn't stuck as a construct I generally use in my own work and personal teaching and it feels important for me to be honest about that.

Looking forward to getting starting with our first practice soon!

Practice: Pluto in the 10th house
For our first practice we will start with Pluto in the 10th house.

The first thing I'd like everyone to do is read the Pluto in Caprciron/10th house section in Jeffrey Wolf Green's book Pluto the Evolutionary Journey of the Soul. This will provide a foundation to understand this archetype. Then to practice thinking critically about the material, please answer the following questions. For our first round we will ONLY be thinking about Pluto in the 10th house in a general way. Of course without evoltuioanry stage or the nodes, everything at this point is super generalized for our learning purposes.

Pluto the Evolutionary Journey of the Soul can be found in hard copy as well as on kindle if you search on Amazon.

Me and Kristin Fontana also recorded a talk on Pluto through the hosues which is good to know about https://www.arimoshe.com/teachings.html (https://www.arimoshe.com/teachings.html) just scroll down a bit.

When answering these questions, the more thoughtful you are with your words the better. Take your time. I will be reading each post and responding according to your efforts.
The aim of this first practice assignment is not to be very indepth and thorough, so don't try too hard! It's simply to open the doors to connect with the energy of Pluto. Very soon we will move on and add the south node in the 2nd house.

Also, what would be helpful for me and support the general functionality of this thread for all of us, is to get in the habit of quoting the post or the specific questions from me that you are resopnding to before each response you give. This allows me to know exactly where you are at withuot needing to scroll back and forth and makes it easier for everyone to follow. You can do that by copy and pasting my words, highlighting it and clicking on the quote icon above.

Pluto questions
1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

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In my next post I'll sample answer these questions for Pluto in the 7th to help get the mind in line with this assignment.

And as always, ask any questions you need to about anything in this assignment. There's no doubt that your questions will also benefit others.

Here are my sample answers for Pluto in the 7th for those who might benefit from seeing an example.

Quote1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

Evoltuioanry cycles of being in balance with others, not being in balance, being pelasing to ohers, not pleasing others, core needs being met and core needs not being met, empowering life altering experiences in relationship that lead the soul to find more wholeness and acceptance within and cataclysmic catalysts through relationship that push the soul to return to itself. The comings and the goings of all things "other" and how that impacts upon the soul's own evolutionary growth to find ultiamtely security within.

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

To act and live according to one's own soul directive; to claim the freedom to act and follow one's path as a bottom line regardless of concern with gain or loss relative to relationship.

1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives leading to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next:
Pluto in the 10th house signifies a new cycle of evolutionary becoming, as it is in a cardinal house.  The soul has been learning how to be its own authority within the society or culture it is incarnated into.  Society/culture has established rules, laws, customs and norms in which humans must comply in order for the society to function.  The soul is learning to take its own authority into society and function well within it. Discipline, self determination and maturity is required in order to do this, and so this soul will program experiences for itself that will foster these qualities within itself. Depending on evolutionary state, the soul will use its power and status gained within society to lead others into their own power, or will manipulate others in order to remain powerful over others.

2. Explain how this soul might struggle with craving and aversion. Craving and aversion are of course the two expressions of desire: we either want something we perceive will make us secure, or we want to avoid something we perceive is threatening our security:  
This soul may crave power within society to the point that they will do anything to keep it, because the power/status they have within society is their emotional security point.  This would normally manifest in their career choice, or possibly the "head of the family" type. Of course this is a separating desire. Aversion to rocking the status quo in some way may serve to keep the soul secure within society at its own or others detriment.  This is also a separating desire. This may manifest in a soul who has not found their authority within society yet, and is suppressing themselves emotionally in some way in order not to question authority for the purpose of remaining emotionally secure.

3. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?
The 4th house signifies gaining emotional security within oneself regardless of anything outside of itself.  If the 10th House Pluto has identified too much with its career, or power status in some way within society for its emotional security, the polarity will be inviting this soul to gain emotional security from within first, regardless of status or career. The career or status can come and go, but the emotional security from within will always be in tact as a result, thus giving the soul a natural and empowered authority within society. 10th House can be emotionally suppressed, leading to depression, due to an inability to access their emotional content. The 4th house will invite the soul to go into its heart and feel its emotions, in order to actualize the next step in evolution.

Hi Linda! Thanks for your work. I'll respond tomorrow morning.

For now, just want to let everyone know that I've simplified the practice questions from 3 questions to 2. This is to keep these first steps really simple and to the point.

We have asked students to refer to the book Pluto the Evolutionary Joureny of the Soul by Jeff Green as we do this practice work together. The reasons for this is the Pluto book describes in detail the evolutionary dynamics of the soul relative to Pluto in all the houses including the evolutionary intentions as signified by the Pluto polarity point. Furhter, in reading the appropriate chapter(s), students will gain a comprehensive understanding of each of the house archetypes from an EA perspective. It's a solid way to get oriented to this work if you are new to EA.

So for now try your best to get a copy of it! We'll keep this first practice stup up for a bit so that we can all get oriented together.

Hi Ari,

I tried to respond to your questions based on both the first Pluto book, the recording of you and Kristin Fontana, and also a little bit of my own experience, which of course is very little. I found some difficulty in responding to the second question, though. I would say that both questions were not exactly easy, but the second one was a little more difficult for me.

I also didn't read the answer of linda, that answer previously, in order to don't be influenced by the answers of other members.

Quote1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

This is a soul that has been experiencing and learning the aspects connected to rules, social structure and order. This could be a soul that has been knowing, through life circumstances in previous lives, the meaning of being part of a significant role in society. It's possible that they were in positions of authority, being for example governmental leaders. Through these experiences of being an important figure, the soul naturally acquired, by experience, a clear perception of "how the society works", so to speak. In other words, an ability's to "look beyond", in the sense that they developed, through time, the knowledge about certain attitudes someone could have in order to be more easily accepted by the status quo and the society they are part of. On the bright side, this is someone that learned and certainly mastered the art of being someone that can indeed change (or at least affect) people's lives. On the negative side, we can say that this could be a soul that ended up doing things over prioritizing the focus in being accepted - forgetting and ignoring their personal motivations, their personal sense of value, of what is considered by them, there in their internal structure, to be right or wrong. It's as if there was a voice inside of their mind that is always saying that their focus, their major focus, should be always doing and acting in certain ways as long as this so-called certain ways means to follow and to respect what already exists and what has been already established - putting their internal needs and sense of self-security always in the second place.

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

In the current life, the soul would possibly create situations in which they would feel forced to follow their own needs, reflecting about their own way of act and feel. This "shock" could occur through situations in which they repeatedly are repressed or unaccepted by society, for example. The "pressure" to change and to be evolving could also manifest through an internal feeling, not necessarily coming from external circumstances, as for example feelings that would pop up, in different moments of their lives, of emptiness, of lack of purpose, even after being able to conquer everything they wanted, in order to be what is socially considered to be right, and correct.


Julia

Hi Ari!

Thank you for your work and so comprehensive material :)

Quote
1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

If we take as an example the Soul at consensus stage of development, the position of Pluto in the 10th house would manifest itself as a desire to gain insight within societal structures but maintaining one's own position at the top of those structures (the desire of domination).
Generally speaking, the Soul's growth had been taking places through- sort of- exhibition to the external reality. In such process the Soul, might have searched a validation through its societal roles, the power but at the same time through a respect received from others.
If the Soul, for example, has reached to individuated or even spiritual stage, its experienced gained in the previous lifetimes could serve as guidance to other "less-advanced" Souls.
   

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The intention is to turn the validation's needs (the security impulses) from external position within society to inner sense of security; to find oneself at peace no matter what societal role we are currently playing without the need to constantly prove oneself in the outside world.
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Quote
And as always, ask any questions you need to about anything in this assignment. There's no doubt that your questions will also benefit others.

- Is it possible to the Soul to move from one evolutionary stage to another in one incarnation, or it is rather process requiring many lifetimes?


- Knowing that the Soul needs a big amount of experience in order to pass from one stage to another, is it only the one archetypal axis (i.e. Leo-Aquarius) that the Soul is working on during all its lifetimes scenarios in order to may peacefully, without any attachments return to the Source?
 
( Example: We can assume that the Soul of Pluto-Leo individual have already had many incarnations
  regarding Leo-Aquarius Archetypes and their mutual interactions..., does it mean that the desire to return to the Source will be ALWAYS manifesting through this particular dynamic??)


   Thank you, and God Bless,

    Kasia

Hi Linda

Quote1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives leading to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next:

Pluto in the 10th house signifies a new cycle of evolutionary becoming, as it is in a cardinal house.  The soul has been learning how to be its own authority within the society or culture it is incarnated into.  Society/culture has established rules, laws, customs and norms in which humans must comply in order for the society to function.  The soul is learning to take its own authority into society and function well within it. Discipline, self determination and maturity is required in order to do this, and so this soul will program experiences for itself that will foster these qualities within itself. Depending on evolutionary state, the soul will use its power and status gained within society to lead others into their own power, or will manipulate others in order to remain powerful over others.

Excellent, and to clarify one thing. The evolutioanry state will not determine whether the soul will use their social status to lead and guide others or if they will manipulate others in order to maintain their status. A soul can orient towards either in any stage of evolution.

Quote2. Explain how this soul might struggle with craving and aversion. Craving and aversion are of course the two expressions of desire: we either want something we perceive will make us secure, or we want to avoid something we perceive is threatening our security: 

This soul may crave power within society to the point that they will do anything to keep it, because the power/status they have within society is their emotional security point.  This would normally manifest in their career choice, or possibly the "head of the family" type. Of course this is a separating desire. Aversion to rocking the status quo in some way may serve to keep the soul secure within society at its own or others detriment.  This is also a separating desire. This may manifest in a soul who has not found their authority within society yet, and is suppressing themselves emotionally in some way in order not to question authority for the purpose of remaining emotionally secure.

I've since taken this question out, but since you caught it ...
Everything you wrote reflects true possibilities.

Quote3. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The 4th house signifies gaining emotional security within oneself regardless of anything outside of itself.  If the 10th House Pluto has identified too much with its career, or power status in some way within society for its emotional security, the polarity will be inviting this soul to gain emotional security from within first, regardless of status or career. The career or status can come and go, but the emotional security from within will always be in tact as a result, thus giving the soul a natural and empowered authority within society. 10th House can be emotionally suppressed, leading to depression, due to an inability to access their emotional content. The 4th house will invite the soul to go into its heart and feel its emotions, in order to actualize the next step in evolution.

Really well articulated Linda! You understand the nature of the Pluto polarity point very well. I hope other students will read your answer once they have completed the assignment themself. Thank you for your work.

Hi Julia,

QuoteI tried to respond to your questions based on both the first Pluto book, the recording of you and Kristin Fontana, and also a little bit of my own experience, which of course is very little. I found some difficulty in responding to the second question, though. I would say that both questions were not exactly easy, but the second one was a little more difficult for me.

I also didn't read the answer of linda, that answer previously, in order to don't be influenced by the answers of other members.

That's good that you didn't read anyone else's answer. My hope is that once we all review the core material which includes what I have written and the relevant section in the Pluto book, that we can all look inside to practice applying it ourselves.

Quote1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

This is a soul that has been experiencing and learning the aspects connected to rules, social structure and order. This could be a soul that has been knowing, through life circumstances in previous lives, the meaning of being part of a significant role in society. It's possible that they were in positions of authority, being for example governmental leaders.

All true.

QuoteThrough these experiences of being an important figure, the soul naturally acquired, by experience, a clear perception of "how the society works", so to speak. In other words, an ability's to "look beyond", in the sense that they developed, through time, the knowledge about certain attitudes someone could have in order to be more easily accepted by the status quo and the society they are part of.

This could be true - but also consider a soul in the first stage of the consensus stage. Such a soul will not have a clear perception of how the society works. In such a case the Pluto int he 10th house would signify evolutionary themes around focusing (Pluto key word) attention towards whatever the soul sees as succesful. This soul might desire to start their own small business and thus will progressively attract to itself the opportunities to grow in that direction. There can be evolutionary challenges that occur in the work place: being abused by one's boss, being weighed down (10th house) by authorities that are using their power (Pluto) in ways that are unethical and oppressive. The soul might not rebel against it but it might fuel a strong desire within them to eventually become their own boss so as not to always be struggling.

QuoteOn the bright side, this is someone that learned and certainly mastered the art of being someone that can indeed change (or at least affect) people's lives.

Ths is a true possibility for sure. As the soul with Pluto in the 10th house evolves, they become progressively lmore attutned to the effects of their actions and progressively takes more responsibility to live according to an inner standard of right and wrong.

QuoteOn the negative side, we can say that this could be a soul that ended up doing things over prioritizing the focus in being accepted - forgetting and ignoring their personal motivations, their personal sense of value, of what is considered by them, there in their internal structure, to be right or wrong. It's as if there was a voice inside of their mind that is always saying that their focus, their major focus, should be always doing and acting in certain ways as long as this so-called certain ways means to follow and to respect what already exists and what has been already established - putting their internal needs and sense of self-security always in the second place.

Very good - all this reflects accurate possibilities. Just to expand this a bit - the fixation on status/ external judgments of right and wrong over their internal compass can also be rooted in a permeating fear of judgment. So, following and respecting what already exists and has been established no matter what can be a deeply internalized fear of being perceived as "wrong" or "bad" etc. This could be in the work place, in one's family, how one behaves publicly etc. An entire worldview or whats appropraite and not approriate based on a deep compulsion to be accepted and approved of by some external authority which is in fact one's own internalized self-judgment. There is why the 10th house is about repression. Natural basic urges can be totally SHUT off on the basis that it's considered to be "wrong" according to conditioning factors.

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

In the current life, the soul would possibly create situations in which they would feel forced to follow their own needs, reflecting about their own way of act and feel. This "shock" could occur through situations in which they repeatedly are repressed or unaccepted by society, for example. The "pressure" to change and to be evolving could also manifest through an internal feeling, not necessarily coming from external circumstances, as for example feelings that would pop up, in different moments of their lives, of emptiness, of lack of purpose, even after being able to conquer everything they wanted, in order to be what is socially considered to be right, and correct.

This is really good Jules, you got it. What you wrote here is really true and very common for a 10th house Pluto "as for example feelings that would pop up, in different moments of their lives, of emptiness, of lack of purpose, even after being able to conquer everything they wanted, in order to be what is socially considered to be right, and correct" this is one form of evolution: where after years of having everyting they wanted, the soul progressively feels a deep emptiness. This is the drive of the soul pushing towards evolution. "Is this the life I really want? Is this who I am?" This can draw a soul to actually get to know themself and thus enter into a phase where they are accessing a storehouse of repressed emotions and needs etc. Forming a relationship to oneself from within as opposed to according to a fixation with external social standards is the point of the polarity point here.

Great work Jules! I feel you get the core of this material.

Thank you for the feedback Ari! :)

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 03, 2020, 12:23 PM

Hi Ari, and all,
A few words about me - I am 24 y/o and living in New Zealand. I have been studying astrology on and off over the last 2 years after my astrologer prompted me to try and learn to answer my own questions. They are also the one who sent me the link to this thread. I practice astrology as a means for personal growth and guidance in an intense phase of my life. However I am very interested in being of service to others when and if it is appropriate.
My learning has accelerated in the last 6 months and I have bought both JWG's Pluto books in that time.

Here are my answers to the first practice Q's. I know you said to choose words carefully, Ari, and I feel like my writing is more of a stream of consciousness combined with JWG's chapter on the 10th House.
I think very tangentially so I often struggle to keep things concise. This is also because I see the depth and want to capture as much as possible. The writing is also helping me understand things myself, so there may be some stating of the obvious, or explaining the same thing from different angles..

Appreciate you offering this practice and feedback.
Best,
Akim

Quote1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

The theme of soul growth for this evolutionary cycle, indicated by Pluto's position inside the 10th house, is about the souls experience of authority, security, social-status and public reputation, and the structures of the world that lie outside of the souls internal and externalised 'home'.
The soul will have to keep learning lessons regarding control, power and powerlessness.
Both light and shadow sides to this archetype will be covered. Emotional maturity, integrity and powerful action as well as manipulation, control and tyranny.
Because this archetype is heavily signified by the father authority, which is ever powerful in its authority and ruthless in its judgement, can create experiences in which the soul, relating to this archetype in a disempowered manner, feels a lot of guilt. In some lifetimes this guilt, carried on from the previous lifetime, will leave the soul karmically blocked by society. This resistant resonance with the 10th house archetype forces a phase of reflection to occur. (moving towards the polarity point). These reflections on the inner, and past, reasons for this situation can trigger deep feelings of powerlessness and a lack of control over anything (a lack of 10th house energy). As the two houses can be seen as signifying the parents, with the 10th house holding the 'male' energy, the early family situation (4th house) will provide an experience of the a lack of healthy 10th house energy in the family dynamic e.g a father figure who is not taking on the responsibilities of proper parenthood. Or a lack of structure provided for the soul as a child. This may lead the soul to develop inner security (4th house), an inner 'home' where the soul can provide itself those things which the soul lacked in childhood. Thus transforming the evolutionary lesson of the archetype and becoming empowered again. And thus the soul is also able to be a functional part of the society again. Positively, once actualising a positive relationship to this archetype, this soul can hold a position of authority in a very good way and can positively affect many people through their position. If this was the case in prior lifetimes, the soul will already show the ability to hold these positions and generally embody the archetype in an empowered and empowering way. The family dynamic they were born into will also reflect this. The realisation of time, boundaries and limits, through the 10th house archetype, will enforce a reflection of the inevitable death of all things, the crash of all structures. This will lead to emotional maturity and the ability for the psychology of stoicism - to get on with growth. If negatively expressed (resistance), this reflection may mean the individual will have a pessimistic and nihilistic attitude towards the facts.
This soul may have just switched gender, in either case coming to the limit of experiencing the archetype in either respective gender - a switch is made and the archetype is seen from a polar opposite view in order for the next evolutionary lesson to occur.

Notes:
A whole new chapter has just begun (cardinal coming from mutable)
Each culture has a philosophical tradition (9th Sagittarius), and from this the societal construction of laws, values and taboos is shaped. Democracy and religious freedom (9th) moves into Capitalism (10th). Over time this matures into tradition and culture and in this way a nation or society forms an intrinsic identity.
This is the culmination of the socialisation which began in the 7th house.

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The evolutionary intention for this lifetime, this particular episode of the larger evolutionary cycle, is to establish an internal and/or externalised 'home' in order to better sustain its public responsibilities and duties, to have a more wholesome reputation, to gain an understanding of the small tasks and goings on that happen behind closed doors, at home, which are the foundation from which every step into the public light is taken.
This polarity points to learning how to soften the edges, withdraw, build sensitivity and an inner security needs to be developed which has nothing to do with the external world, and an inner fulfillment that is not related to any social status, role or position.
There is a shift from the left brain (capricorn/saturn) to the right brain hemisphere (cancer/moon). This means lessons regarding emotions. Again these lessons can occur in non-cataclysmic or cataclysmic ways and particularly through the family, whether in childhood or the dynamic of ones own family later on. Self knowledge will result.
Once self reflection has occurred and these lessons have been learnt - that they have established a security within which is stable, no matter what external experiences occur - they can effortlessly rise into the positions of prominence that their evolutionary and karmic necessity calls for. They can achieve a 'work-life balance'.
These souls are learning that evolution is more important than attachments to power.

Hi Kasia (Kulrika),

QuoteQuote
1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

If we take as an example the Soul at consensus stage of development, the position of Pluto in the 10th house would manifest itself as a desire to gain insight within societal structures but maintaining one's own position at the top of those structures (the desire of domination).

Yes, but specifically at the third stage of the consensus stage.

QuoteGenerally speaking, the Soul's growth had been taking places through- sort of- exhibition to the external reality. In such process the Soul, might have searched a validation through its societal roles, the power but at the same time through a respect received from others.
If the Soul, for example, has reached to individuated or even spiritual stage, its experienced gained in the previous lifetimes could serve as guidance to other "less-advanced" Souls.

Great, all true possibilities. To clarify, in the 2nd individuated, the soul with this signature will progressively need to define reality on their own terms, thus to deeply question the ethical constructs and standrds that are assumed by consensus reality. They may not be oriented necessarilty to guided others in lower evolutionary stages, but there will very often be a strong need to define (10th house) one's own ethical standards as there is a strong need to really differentiate and protect oneself from consensus reality about this point. This leading to the third stage where a soul is confident enough in who they are that they are no longer afraid of being sucked back in to consensus reality.

In all these stages however there is a growing and penetrating ability of the soul to perceive (Pluto) power structures and where there might be entanglemnts, misuse of power etc. In this way the soul is able, in particualr in later parts of the individuated stages and beyond, to enter into society and create a standard that others can follow that leads people more towards their inner authority. A great example of this is Yogananada, a third stage spiritual soul who had Pluto in Gemini in the 10th house. One of the things he did which he is most well known for is his classic book "Autobiography of a Yogi" as well as translating spiritual teachings in a way that can serve as a guide for others. He instructed (10th house) in an ancient lineage (10th house) of yoga that orients people to their inner soul reality (Pluto).

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The intention is to turn the validation's needs (the security impulses) from external position within society to inner sense of security; to find oneself at peace no matter what societal role we are currently playing without the need to constantly prove oneself in the outside world.

Excellent.

****

Quote- Is it possible to the Soul to move from one evolutionary stage to another in one incarnation, or it is rather process requiring many lifetimes?

I feel it's best to let Rad answer this as he has a more clear perception of soul evolution than myself. I would say in general, that the soul's only choice in each life is to cooperate or resist it's evolutionary intentions that brought it into this life.

Quote- Knowing that the Soul needs a big amount of experience in order to pass from one stage to another, is it only the one archetypal axis (i.e. Leo-Aquarius) that the Soul is working on during all its lifetimes scenarios in order to may peacefully, without any attachments return to the Source?

( Example: We can assume that the Soul of Pluto-Leo individual have already had many incarnations
 regarding Leo-Aquarius Archetypes and their mutual interactions..., does it mean that the desire to return to the Source will be ALWAYS manifesting through this particular dynamic??)

I'll defer to Rad as he's more equipped to asnwer your question.

Thank you for your work Casia!

QuoteHi Ari, and all,
A few words about me - I am 24 y/o and living in New Zealand. I have been studying astrology on and off over the last 2 years after my astrologer prompted me to try and learn to answer my own questions. They are also the one who sent me the link to this thread. I practice astrology as a means for personal growth and guidance in an intense phase of my life. However I am very interested in being of service to others when and if it is appropriate.
My learning has accelerated in the last 6 months and I have bought both JWG's Pluto books in that time.

Here are my answers to the first practice Q's. I know you said to choose words carefully, Ari, and I feel like my writing is more of a stream of consciousness combined with JWG's chapter on the 10th House.
I think very tangentially so I often struggle to keep things concise. This is also because I see the depth and want to capture as much as possible. The writing is also helping me understand things myself, so there may be some stating of the obvious, or explaining the same thing from different angles..

Appreciate you offering this practice and feedback.
Best,
Akim

Hi Akim! Nice to meet you.

Quote1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

The theme of soul growth for this evolutionary cycle, indicated by Pluto's position inside the 10th house, is about the souls experience of authority, security, social-status and public reputation, and the structures of the world that lie outside of the souls internal and externalised 'home'.
The soul will have to keep learning lessons regarding control, power and powerlessness.
Both light and shadow sides to this archetype will be covered. Emotional maturity, integrity and powerful action as well as manipulation, control and tyranny.
Because this archetype is heavily signified by the father authority, which is ever powerful in its authority and ruthless in its judgement, can create experiences in which the soul, relating to this archetype in a disempowered manner, feels a lot of guilt. In some lifetimes this guilt, carried on from the previous lifetime, will leave the soul karmically blocked by society. This resistant resonance with the 10th house archetype forces a phase of reflection to occur. (moving towards the polarity point). These reflections on the inner, and past, reasons for this situation can trigger deep feelings of powerlessness and a lack of control over anything (a lack of 10th house energy). As the two houses can be seen as signifying the parents, with the 10th house holding the 'male' energy, the early family situation (4th house) will provide an experience of the a lack of healthy 10th house energy in the family dynamic e.g a father figure who is not taking on the responsibilities of proper parenthood. Or a lack of structure provided for the soul as a child. This may lead the soul to develop inner security (4th house), an inner 'home' where the soul can provide itself those things which the soul lacked in childhood. Thus transforming the evolutionary lesson of the archetype and becoming empowered again. And thus the soul is also able to be a functional part of the society again. Positively, once actualising a positive relationship to this archetype, this soul can hold a position of authority in a very good way and can positively affect many people through their position. If this was the case in prior lifetimes, the soul will already show the ability to hold these positions and generally embody the archetype in an empowered and empowering way. The family dynamic they were born into will also reflect this. The realisation of time, boundaries and limits, through the 10th house archetype, will enforce a reflection of the inevitable death of all things, the crash of all structures. This will lead to emotional maturity and the ability for the psychology of stoicism - to get on with growth. If negatively expressed (resistance), this reflection may mean the individual will have a pessimistic and nihilistic attitude towards the facts.
This soul may have just switched gender, in either case coming to the limit of experiencing the archetype in either respective gender - a switch is made and the archetype is seen from a polar opposite view in order for the next evolutionary lesson to occur.

You undersatnd this well and these are all possible expressions of the archetype.

QuoteNotes:
A whole new chapter has just begun (cardinal coming from mutable)
Each culture has a philosophical tradition (9th Sagittarius), and from this the societal construction of laws, values and taboos is shaped. Democracy and religious freedom (9th) moves into Capitalism (10th). Over time this matures into tradition and culture and in this way a nation or society forms an intrinsic identity.
This is the culmination of the socialisation which began in the 7th house.

Quote
2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The evolutionary intention for this lifetime, this particular episode of the larger evolutionary cycle, is to establish an internal and/or externalised 'home' in order to better sustain its public responsibilities and duties, to have a more wholesome reputation, to gain an understanding of the small tasks and goings on that happen behind closed doors, at home, which are the foundation from which every step into the public light is taken.

The polarity point here is not about having a more wholesome reputation or understanding the small tasks and goings on that happen at home.

QuoteThis polarity points to learning how to soften the edges, withdraw, build sensitivity and an inner security needs to be developed which has nothing to do with the external world, and an inner fulfillment that is not related to any social status, role or position.

Excellent.

QuoteThere is a shift from the left brain (capricorn/saturn) to the right brain hemisphere (cancer/moon). This means lessons regarding emotions. Again these lessons can occur in non-cataclysmic or cataclysmic ways and particularly through the family, whether in childhood or the dynamic of ones own family later on. Self knowledge will result.

Everything is true except for the left brain/ right brain association. In EA left brain = Merucry, Right brain = Jupiter.

QuoteOnce self reflection has occurred and these lessons have been learnt - that they have established a security within which is stable, no matter what external experiences occur - they can effortlessly rise into the positions of prominence that their evolutionary and karmic necessity calls for. They can achieve a 'work-life balance'.

Prominance isn't necessarily promised here but the general point you are making is correct.

QuoteThese souls are learning that evolution is more important than attachments to power.

Yes and we'd have to qualify that statement with "social power" or "security linked with status" etc. Otherwise your statement is genreally true for every Pluto position.

Great job Akim, thank you for your work!

Hi Ari thanks for all the info you posted!  Before posting my answers I would just like to reshare a few quotes from your notes that were particularly illuminating for me:

QuoteSo on the one hand there is in fact the individualizing aspect of consciousness; yet on the other, the universal aspect of consciousness, which binds all the individual aspects of consciousness together.

QuoteUltimately, we are not leaving the south node behind and moving towards the north node. We are leaving attachment behind and continuing to evolve. This is an important distinction. Evolution isn't just replacing one nodal identity for its opposite; it's resolving the past (which translates to not taking it with us in the present moment) and growing beyond our previous limitations. When the past is resolved, we keep what is true and eternal and move onaccording to our soul program.

QuoteHow to create a sense of safety with that dog? Certainly, being direct and confrontational would not make the dog feel safe. The only way to reach that dog is by respecting its existing ego structure.

QuoteThe desire to return to source expresses itself via any desires that are relevant to our evolutionary needs at the time

Love this one!

QuoteRemember that desire, being the program for our life experience, doesn't just mean we become more concentrated. It means that life itself becomes more concentrated with us.

Would you be able to clarify this last part?




***************************************************************************************

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 03, 2020, 11:48 AMPluto questions
1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

* Defining oneself in respect to:
- One's society/culture of origin
- One's individual physical characteristics in relation to socio-cultural identity, i.e. age, gender, ethnicity, etc.
- One's socio-economic position/function in society
* Cultivating an awareness of one's personal sources of power & powerlessness in relation to these socially/culturally-derived constructs
* Acting/behaving/making decisions solely in response/reaction/respect to or as determined by the rules/laws/norms/customs of one's external reality, society and culture - dependent upon temporal values/belief systems
* "Switching off" from aspects of oneself that are vulnerable and therefore a source of powerlessness in the context of social power and position, in order to be "impenetrable" in achieving/establishing success of ambitions and social power
* Sense of personal responsibility solely dictated/defined by what society "wants" or requires from an individual
* Desires to attain a sense of "supremacy" or prominence in society
* Externally derived sources of fulfilment
* Reaching the "height", "zenith" or "pinnacle of socialisation" -  reaping the seeds of developing of one's sociological identity/function
* Desires to make oneself "sociologically-relevant"
* Linking sense of individual purpose to a socially-relevant purpose or function
* Learning to operate within framework - structures, limitations, restrictions, etc. - of society, and submission to external authorities
* Immerse self-concept within one's socio-cultural reality in order to learn, master and align with the appropriate tools/actions/procedures needed to implement purpose, establish social power, actualise capacity
* Failure/success in utilising one's potential/capacities; define/accept limits of one's social capacity
* Coming face to face with one's inherent limitations - experience sense of futility and depression because of
* Becoming limited/restricted by unfulfilled personal/inner/emotional needs due to intense focus on external orientation
* Gender switch: having reached potential limitation in evolutionary growth possible in previous gender
* Focusing on/Sustaining/tending to one's outer reality at the expense of one's inner reality
* Temporal/spatial orientation to "cause and effect", thus personal responsibility is projected outwards rather than reflected upon inwardly

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 03, 2020, 11:48 AM2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

* Cultivating an inner awareness/self-concept that is not limited/defined by time and the physical (age, gender - gender switch, culture/society of origin) especially as it relates to one's "timeless" identity - 4th house trine 8th/12th houses
* Cultivating a sense of "timelessness" via nurturing an eternal sense of emotional security from within oneself
* Dynamic of inner reflection as a means to "reawaken" to one's inner reality: aspects of self and emotional needs that have become repressed, suppressed, oppressed
* Personal identity/security/fulfilment not limited to/derived from one's external reality/environment/identity/social purpose/status, etc.
* Discover the internal conditions/motivations that are the true source of/responsible for one's external reality/conditions
* Cultivating responsibility for our personal attitudes and emotional orientation towards life
* Learning to relate to/operate/function within one's external reality in a way that is not defined by/limited to/dependent upon the dictates, temporal values/beliefs of one's reality/society/culture
* Awareness of one's emotional "infrastructure" vs. socially/culturally constructed persona, i.e. emotional/behavioural patterning, formulation
* Internal vs external conditions: Inner reality/self-image not dependent upon external conditions
* Realising that due to inner motivation to define sense of self via externally received conditionings/constructs creates attitude that others should then therefore also be subjected to the same standards/principles - learning that these perceptions are in fact self-created/formulated/motivated, i.e. judgements
* Realising personal values/beliefs that condition one's ideas about life/external reality are purely subjective
* Paradox: in the physical world, the "rigidity" of structures enforces stability or "˜stasis', however due to the evolutionary nature of consciousness and life itself (not static), true emotional stability/security must not become derived from rigid dependence upon external structures/form but rather from cultivating a fluid, adaptable and response attitude towards external reality
* Metaphor: a tower that is being built solely to be the highest of them all - a sole focus on achievement or actualising oneself solely in respect to one's external reality, is detrimental to inherent infrastructure.  Not tending to/nurturing needs of inner structures of the tower leads to instability and potentially to a "fall" or collapse of the tower, due to lack of inner strength, integrity.

Hi Kasia,

Quote
- Is it possible to the Soul to move from one evolutionary stage to another in one incarnation, or it is rather process requiring many lifetimes?

******

Yes it is in fact possible for some Souls to actually, in the context of an existing lifetime, to evolve from one evolutionary stage to another. For most though it is a process of lifetimes wherein that process can lead to a lifetime in which it has finally moved from one evolutionary stage to another.

*********

Quote
- Knowing that the Soul needs a big amount of experience in order to pass from one stage to another, is it only the one archetypal axis (i.e. Leo-Aquarius) that the Soul is working on during all its lifetimes scenarios in order to may peacefully, without any attachments return to the Source?

( Example: We can assume that the Soul of Pluto-Leo individual have already had many incarnations
 regarding Leo-Aquarius Archetypes and their mutual interactions..., does it mean that the desire to return to the Source will be ALWAYS manifesting through this particular dynamic??)

*********

No.

*********

God Bless, Rad

Hi Little April Shower,

Quote"Remember that desire, being the program for our life experience, doesn't just mean we become more concentrated. It means that life itself becomes more concentrated with us."

Would you be able to clarify this last part?

By concentration I mean focus, orientation around. The inner desire nature of the soul is the determinant for life experience. The outer is a reflection of the inner.

Quote
1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

* Defining oneself in respect to:
- One's society/culture of origin
- One's individual physical characteristics in relation to socio-cultural identity, i.e. age, gender, ethnicity, etc.
- One's socio-economic position/function in society
* Cultivating an awareness of one's personal sources of power & powerlessness in relation to these socially/culturally-derived constructs
* Acting/behaving/making decisions solely in response/reaction/respect to or as determined by the rules/laws/norms/customs of one's external reality, society and culture - dependent upon temporal values/belief systems
* "Switching off" from aspects of oneself that are vulnerable and therefore a source of powerlessness in the context of social power and position, in order to be "impenetrable" in achieving/establishing success of ambitions and social power
* Sense of personal responsibility solely dictated/defined by what society "wants" or requires from an individual
* Desires to attain a sense of "supremacy" or prominence in society
* Externally derived sources of fulfilment
* Reaching the "height", "zenith" or "pinnacle of socialisation" -  reaping the seeds of developing of one's sociological identity/function
* Desires to make oneself "sociologically-relevant"
* Linking sense of individual purpose to a socially-relevant purpose or function
* Learning to operate within framework - structures, limitations, restrictions, etc. - of society, and submission to external authorities
* Immerse self-concept within one's socio-cultural reality in order to learn, master and align with the appropriate tools/actions/procedures needed to implement purpose, establish social power, actualise capacity
* Failure/success in utilising one's potential/capacities; define/accept limits of one's social capacity
* Coming face to face with one's inherent limitations - experience sense of futility and depression because of
* Becoming limited/restricted by unfulfilled personal/inner/emotional needs due to intense focus on external orientation
* Gender switch: having reached potential limitation in evolutionary growth possible in previous gender
* Focusing on/Sustaining/tending to one's outer reality at the expense of one's inner reality
* Temporal/spatial orientation to "cause and effect", thus personal responsibility is projected outwards rather than reflected upon inwardly

All true and very well thought out. Just to make sure you are really connecting with the essence, I want to clarify that eveything you wrote here reflects the aspects of the soul's journey that will come and go. Gender, failure, success, structures, limitations, social purpose, sense of responsibility etc are all ephemeral conditions. A soul might manifest a position of power and social esteem and then manifest a lifetime or a time of being stripped of their power.  The point with Pluto is graducally moving through these life experiences and directing desire more and more towards the soul itself: what doesn't come and go. All of the 10th house conditions mgiht be relevant for the soul's growth for a time, but none of them will be relevant for all time.

One thing you didn't mention that I'll add since you did such a great job at thinking this though, is the dynamic of a deep sense of shame. Shame here equaling an internalized beleif that one is inherently wrong. This shame can result in a deep feeling that they need to be punished for being a bad person equaling experiences of disempowerment/disconnect from one's inner authority. It will also result in a perception (Pluto) of the world as harsh and punishing. Mayn souls with Pluto in the 10th house carry into the current life a deep guilt that until processed will result in creating a reality of shame, blame and punishment for themselves. It's also common that these souls will have osmosed into themselves societal judgments of right and wrong, resulting in them repressing their own natural human urges and seeing them as "wrong" on the basis of having been deeply conditioned according to external standards.  Of course the Pluto polarity here in the 4th would be about accessing the emotions that have been repressed so that this pattern can change. This often takes time and in particular a new rleationship to time where the soul realizes the need for healing and care.

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

Quote* Cultivating an inner awareness/self-concept that is not limited/defined by time and the physical (age, gender - gender switch, culture/society of origin) especially as it relates to one's "timeless" identity - 4th house trine 8th/12th houses
* Cultivating a sense of "timelessness" via nurturing an eternal sense of emotional security from within oneself

The point on timelessness is not necessarily true. I.E. in consensus stages, lets say a person looses their job. Embracing the polarity point isn't about dropping self-concept linked with time and space but with ultimately coming into a new self-concept by way of accessing more of one's inner security and safety, leading them to start a new cycle with new opportunities.

Quote* Dynamic of inner reflection as a means to "reawaken" to one's inner reality: aspects of self and emotional needs that have become repressed, suppressed, oppressed
* Personal identity/security/fulfilment not limited to/derived from one's external reality/environment/identity/social purpose/status, etc.
* Discover the internal conditions/motivations that are the true source of/responsible for one's external reality/conditions
* Cultivating responsibility for our personal attitudes and emotional orientation towards life
* Learning to relate to/operate/function within one's external reality in a way that is not defined by/limited to/dependent upon the dictates, temporal values/beliefs of one's reality/society/culture
* Awareness of one's emotional "infrastructure" vs. socially/culturally constructed persona, i.e. emotional/behavioural patterning, formulation
* Internal vs external conditions: Inner reality/self-image not dependent upon external conditions
* Realising that due to inner motivation to define sense of self via externally received conditionings/constructs creates attitude that others should then therefore also be subjected to the same standards/principles - learning that these perceptions are in fact self-created/formulated/motivated, i.e. judgements
* Realising personal values/beliefs that condition one's ideas about life/external reality are purely subjective
* Paradox: in the physical world, the "rigidity" of structures enforces stability or "˜stasis', however due to the evolutionary nature of consciousness and life itself (not static), true emotional stability/security must not become derived from rigid dependence upon external structures/form but rather from cultivating a fluid, adaptable and response attitude towards external reality
* Metaphor: a tower that is being built solely to be the highest of them all - a sole focus on achievement or actualising oneself solely in respect to one's external reality, is detrimental to inherent infrastructure.  Not tending to/nurturing needs of inner structures of the tower leads to instability and potentially to a "fall" or collapse of the tower, due to lack of inner strength, integrity.

This is all really well said. Most of what you wrote here reflect a very well integrated undersatnding of how the Pluto polarity point in the 4th plays out and how to understand it's function in general.

Thank you for your work L.A.S!

testing to see if tagging words
@Rad

Thank you so much for your time and dedication.

Pluto questions
1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.
[/quote]

Cycles of learning about the nature and function of society - how it works and their place within it, societal values and how to navigate them. Control and power struggles between the individual and society. Themes of discipline, self-determination, personal responsibility and maturity. Guilt and atonement.  Security and insecurity. Inner and outer authority.


2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

Developing an inner sense of security and internal authority (necessary for change). 

Hi Ari

Thanks for the opportunity and your guidance,but sorry I don't know how to quote.


1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

Saturn,Capricorn,and 10th house correlate the nature of the society conditions that the soul chooses to  be born into,the nature of this conditions reflect the totality of the structured societies,groups,tribes,countries,laws,customs,norms and taboos.Pluto in the 10th house person have been learning how to establish their authority within a society,and continuing learning how to define their individuality through their social function,to do this, they must learn how the society functions,self discipline and determination,maturity,and submission to higher authority.

These people have desired positions of social power or status,they may have held these status in past lives through manipulating the system to their advantage.many have to do so by necessary effort.All these peope have learned and cotinuing learning how to take responsibilities for the own actions and desires,to be a mature adults,some of them have natural leadership quatities and can be inspirational to others.

2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The person must learn to develop internal security and sense of identify not bound up in the social position.they must learn to understand the nature and basis of their emotions,and to create the necessay sense of inner security not tied to social function.for example,I have a friend who used to said to me that whenever the career blocked,always came the improvement of her spiritual acievement.her Pluto is in 10th house.

Namaste,Chengting

Hi Annie K,

Quote1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

Cycles of learning about the nature and function of society - how it works and their place within it, societal values and how to navigate them. Control and power struggles between the individual and society. Themes of discipline, self-determination, personal responsibility and maturity. Guilt and atonement.  Security and insecurity. Inner and outer authority.

Excellent.

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

Developing an inner sense of security and internal authority (necessary for change).

This is the distilled essence of it. "Internal authority" of course not being 4th house, but the essence I recognize you are pointing to is that with an inner sense of security (4th house) and thus ability to self-reflect/know oneself from withn, the soul is able to trust their own inner compass of how to act in the world.

Thank you for your work Annie K!

Hi Chengting,

Hi Ari

QuoteThanks for the opportunity and your guidance,but sorry I don't know how to quote.

Enclosed is a screen shot. Note on top where it says "insert quote" next to a little beige quote icon. Highlight the area you want to quote and then click the quote icon.

Quote1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

Saturn,Capricorn,and 10th house correlate the nature of the society conditions that the soul chooses to  be born into,the nature of this conditions reflect the totality of the structured societies,groups,tribes,countries,laws,customs,norms and taboos.Pluto in the 10th house person have been learning how to establish their authority within a society,and continuing learning how to define their individuality through their social function,to do this, they must learn how the society functions,self discipline and determination,maturity,and submission to higher authority.

These people have desired positions of social power or status,they may have held these status in past lives through manipulating the system to their advantage.many have to do so by necessary effort.All these peope have learned and cotinuing learning how to take responsibilities for the own actions and desires,to be a mature adults,some of them have natural leadership quatities and can be inspirational to others.

Excellent.

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The person must learn to develop internal security and sense of identify not bound up in the social position.they must learn to understand the nature and basis of their emotions,and to create the necessay sense of inner security not tied to social function.for example,I have a friend who used to said to me that whenever the career blocked,always came the improvement of her spiritual acievement.her Pluto is in 10th house.

Great work Chengting, you understand Pluto and it's polarity point very well.
Thank you for your work!

Hi everyone!

Being as there are many new people, some of whom will need to review the material and gain access to the Pluto book, it's natural that we give this first step a lot of time. As to my knowledge, there are a good handful of people still intending to post, so I'd like to keep us on this first step until Friday of this week. If you need more time than that just let me know so I can keep track of you.

Thank you everyone for your work and participation! If you have alreay posted your first assignment, you are invited to review what other students wrote along with my feedback to further itnegrate your understanding.

I am answering the first set of questions from Reply #5, as I am entirely new, studying seriously for two years.

1. Explain the inherent relationship between soul and ego.

The soul is an eternal individuated consciousness that is part of Source consciousness. The ego is a satellite of the soul and the reflection of unconscious constructs- mechanisms and patterns- that create a sense of self in a given lifetime.

2. What are the two antithetical desires of the soul?

To return to Source and to separate from Source

3. Why is cooperation or resistance with evolutionary necessity the only two choices a soul can make?

I believe it is because the core desires are to either return to source or to separate from source and these two choices to resist or cooperate are connected to those two desires in different ways in different circumstances.

4. What is involution and why does it always proceed evolution?

Involution is the removal, ending or destruction of what already exists, and this proceeds evolution to create the grounds and opportunities for growth.

5. Pluto can reflect evolutionary processes that we don't understand at the time. In retrospect, after the dust has settled, we are often able to glean insight and perspective of evolutionary necessity. Can you think of a time in your life where there were powerful Pluto type cataclysmic experiences that you only later were able to understand?

Around 4 years ago I had Pluto Conjunct my natal Vesta, squaring my natal Mars & trine my natal Chiron. I had a regrettable trauma bond/ ex lover I hadn't talked to in years move into the house next to the one I own, we reconnected emotionally and it sent me into a deep discernment journey of nearly leaving my marriage, family and long-time role of motherhood. The situation sent me back to myself to question what it is I really want. I eventually learned how to set boundaries and cut ties with what does not serve me, and it was very confusing and painful and felt really karmic in nature. In the end it renewed the marriage I am committed to to be much more conscious and much less dependent. A lot had to come up and be released in the process. Now I see the gift it was and there has been resolution, peace and boundaries are now on all sides.
I have natal Pluto Libra 1st house, PPP Aries 7th house.

6. What is the relationship between Pluto and the south node of the Moon?

Pluto being the desire of the soul and the South Node of the Moon being the conditioning of the soul, where it is coming from, past roles & experiences. It is the souls' past.

7. What is the relationship between the Pluto polarity point and the north node of the Moon?

Pluto polarity point is the dynamic experienced in past lives, what wants to be integrated or learned, and the North Node is the way in which the soul is doing this consciously.

8. Why is it necessary to connect first with the inner soul really; where they are at in their own evolutionary journey before interpreting the chart?

In order to be of service to the soul it is important to understand what would benefit the soul on its' journey and speak in ways that relate to their level of reality and to speak to what is important to the individual.

Welcoming feedback & appreciating this space to practice. Thank you Ari and all the others here!

Hi Ari,

Thank you.

Hi Nicole,

Quote. Explain the inherent relationship between soul and ego.

The soul is an eternal individuated consciousness that is part of Source consciousness. The ego is a satellite of the soul and the reflection of unconscious constructs- mechanisms and patterns- that create a sense of self in a given lifetime.

2. What are the two antithetical desires of the soul?

To return to Source and to separate from Source

3. Why is cooperation or resistance with evolutionary necessity the only two choices a soul can make?

I believe it is because the core desires are to either return to source or to separate from source and these two choices to resist or cooperate are connected to those two desires in different ways in different circumstances.

4. What is involution and why does it always proceed evolution?

Involution is the removal, ending or destruction of what already exists, and this proceeds evolution to create the grounds and opportunities for growth.

5. Pluto can reflect evolutionary processes that we don't understand at the time. In retrospect, after the dust has settled, we are often able to glean insight and perspective of evolutionary necessity. Can you think of a time in your life where there were powerful Pluto type cataclysmic experiences that you only later were able to understand?

Around 4 years ago I had Pluto Conjunct my natal Vesta, squaring my natal Mars & trine my natal Chiron. I had a regrettable trauma bond/ ex lover I hadn't talked to in years move into the house next to the one I own, we reconnected emotionally and it sent me into a deep discernment journey of nearly leaving my marriage, family and long-time role of motherhood. The situation sent me back to myself to question what it is I really want. I eventually learned how to set boundaries and cut ties with what does not serve me, and it was very confusing and painful and felt really karmic in nature. In the end it renewed the marriage I am committed to to be much more conscious and much less dependent. A lot had to come up and be released in the process. Now I see the gift it was and there has been resolution, peace and boundaries are now on all sides.
I have natal Pluto Libra 1st house, PPP Aries 7th house.

6. What is the relationship between Pluto and the south node of the Moon?

Pluto being the desire of the soul and the South Node of the Moon being the conditioning of the soul, where it is coming from, past roles & experiences. It is the souls' past.

7. What is the relationship between the Pluto polarity point and the north node of the Moon?

Pluto polarity point is the dynamic experienced in past lives, what wants to be integrated or learned, and the North Node is the way in which the soul is doing this consciously.

To clarify: the polarity point IS the evolutionary purpose of the current life.. And the north node is in the vehicle for that, which you stated correctly.

Quote8. Why is it necessary to connect first with the inner soul really; where they are at in their own evolutionary journey before interpreting the chart?

In order to be of service to the soul it is important to understand what would benefit the soul on its' journey and speak in ways that relate to their level of reality and to speak to what is important to the individual.

Everything you wrote is accurate and expersses a clear understanding of these core principals. Thank you for your work and for sharing your own example Nicole!

Hi Ari Moshe and everyone else!

I'm so thankful you're offering this opportunity to improve and put into practice the wisdom principles of EA. I'm blown away already by the depth and detail of support you're offering here.

QuoteBeing as there are many new people, some of whom will need to review the material and gain access to the Pluto book, it's natural that we give this first step a lot of time. As to my knowledge, there are a good handful of people still intending to post, so I'd like to keep us on this first step until Friday of this week. If you need more time than that just let me know so I can keep track of you.

I am one such person. I ordered my Pluto book (thank you for the kick in the butt to finally get my own copy :) ), and it is due to arrive Sunday, April 12. I have already read it, 2 years ago - I'm up to speed on all the information you thoughtfully posted to this thread and plan to watch your video with Kristin tonight.

Would you recommend I wait until I'm able to refresh on the chapter in Pluto? I'm eager to try my hand at your questions and not delay while I have fresh excitement, but I have never tried my hand at a reading beyond trying to understand my own chart.

-Rebecca

Hi Rebecca,
Totally your choice - if you feel you are already familiar, and you are listening to the audio, see if you feel equipped to answer the questions - and you can always go back and add/refine after you read the chapter. Otherwise if you want to read the chapter first and post after the 12th that's totally fine.

Pluto questions
1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

The evolutionary theme can be the full gamut of tasting power in accumulation of external and/or material results, identifying with these results and the power itself while creating a self-identity of uniqueness (superiority/separateness/entitledness etc) that has deep storytelling threads of the vicissitudes of the these external material results. In other words also a self-image of a conqueror or a martyr. The soul theme, consequently then, might filter down to identifying meaning in the external world, or a void and disillusion with that result instead (even in the face of security achieved). This might create a persona (for future soul growth) with deeper complexities than just coming from the soul's  realm of finite experience. All in all, the soul theme of all the previous lives put  together  relevant to the present one would involve the externalization of self, together with the 'involute' of a question regarding the self itself - or the reality of this external ultimately!

2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The evolutionary intention of the current life is to internalise security progressively within the "interior" domain of the four walls that inhabit the self including the physical and the psycho-social up to psycho-spiritual. In so doing go through the range of experiences that challenge the notion of security by offering phasal suggestions of rooting and ground, relative failure of each thus exposing insecurity as a key player in the evolutonary intention being played out. In repeated and thorough challenging, the idea of security itself can be internalised as connected to the self, inner life and providing access points through the primary personal sphere - the home - the place where the ego structure first casts it's influence. In a gradual progression whether involving cataclysmic or non-cataclysmic evolution, lessons learnt before can be brought into the emotional energy-sphere where crystallised realisations can begin to be assimilated into core personality yielding a more spiritually coherent and soul-connected light, vision, direction and giving (pouring out) into the world - the Pluto polarity point in the 4th has the potential to initiate a Lunar Flow in the Soul which can soothe things, help with integration in the current life and all future progressions put together - such may be the relevance of the Emergence of this Lunar Dimension and flow.

Pluto questions
1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

A majority of people with Pluto in the 10th have desired positions of social status or power in prior lives.  Status and power is the primary focus of validating their individuality, meaning and security.  This desire for power and security in their social world can lead to over identification with their career therefore creating an imbalance between work and home life.  Additionally, they may have attained social power by manipulating other people as a means to an end.  Hence one of the lessons to learn from prior-life abuses of power is accountability.  Over lifetimes with self-reflection often accompanied by bouts of depression, they grow to accept responsibility for their lives and conduct and evolve their ethical standards of behavior in their social and sometimes troubled home lives. 

During many lives of experiencing Pluto in the 10th house, the incarnated soul will experience lives of powerlessness over their social position/status  to living lives in which they achieve a great deal of power.  Powerlessness can be the result of the individual not learning how the social system works or there may be a need to learn self-discipline and/or the necessity of applying sustained effort in achieving social goals.  In some lifetimes the individual may lack enough inner awareness to determine his social ambitions.  Other influences on powerlessness in a lifetime include a type of atonement for past life abuses of power or other karmic necessities which force the individual within to self-reflection and examination.  Over cycles of Pluto in the 10th the individual needs to learn the importance of self-determination, ethical behavior, self-discipline and sustained effort in order to meet social goals and attain status.

Pluto in the 10th can indicate a gender switch for some souls.


2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The individual will not be able to successfully actualize the social position they are karmically destined to perform without the inner reflection needed to realize that social power or position cannot create or sustain inner emotional security and that social position and power cannot define them as individuals.   They will need to learn thru many lifetimes that true inner security, personal value and identity can only be found internally thru self-reflection and examination.  Inner emotional security is not dependent upon social power or family dynamics.   Society's laws, rules and established traditions cannot serve as a substitute for self-determined rules and values.  As 10th house lessons are learned they can learn to balance home and work life, release critical and judgmental attitudes of self and others and achieve emotional maturity and personal fulfillment. 

Once the individual has learned the lessons of self-determination, self-discipline and ethical standards of behavior, they can actualize the social role they came to fulfill and become a role model and or inspiration to others.

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 03, 2020, 12:23 PM

Hi Ari and thank you for this great opportunity for learning and practicing Evolutionary Astrology.
I am learning also how to use the quote tool. I am not native using English language but i hope i make myself understood.

Quote1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

1.   Pluto in the 10th house or Capricorn, indicates a new evolutionary cycle of development, specific to all cardinal houses. The soul has been learning how to establish their own authority, individuality within society or through their social position. They have been learning lessons of discipline, and self determination. They have been fueled by ambition and the desire for higher position or social status and some of them through manipulation.
Individuals with this position need to learn about social structures, rules, lessons of power and control, how to become responsible for their own action and in society. Issues of guilt and judgement may occur if the evolutionary lessons were not understood.
In many cases individuals born with Pluto in the 10th house, have just switched genders, having the first experience of the opposite sex, which creates an imbalance in all senses, physical, mental emotional.

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

2.   The evolutionary intention of current life signified by the polarity point in the 4th house, confirms the endings new beginning characteristics for cardinal houses. The soul learn to develop Cancer/4th house archetypes. They need to adjust back in their emotional bodies, to find emotional security within and within their families. Individuals learn to create a self image that is not dependent on outer achievements, on career or social function and learn to accept the responsibilities for their own lives.

Sunflower

Good morning!

1. Explain the inherent relationship between soul and ego.
1 - The soul is the primordial energy that has been removed from the source and is our true form. The ego derives from the soul, being a form of energy created by it, in this life to be able to express the soul's desires, according to its evolutionary and karmic necessities, so that the soul can evolve.

2. What are the two antithetical desires of the soul?
2 - The two antithetical desires are the desire to separate from the source and the desire to return to the source. It is through the expression of these desires that the soul will continue its evolution until it can finally return to the source.

3. Why is cooperation or resistance with an evolutionary necessity the only two choices a soul can make?
3 - The two mechanisms that the soul has, through the ego, to express evolutionary desires or necessities are cooperation or resistance. Through cooperation, we will have a smoother evolutionary path. If there is resistance, cataclysmic events can occur, which makes evolution more complicated. It is the law of polarity, cooperation and resistance being the two ends of an axis.

4. What is involution and why does it always preceed evolution?
4 - Involution is an absence of evolution, a stagnation in the evolutionary path. It is necessary for the ego to feel the need to learn new concepts, new desires, that is, the need to continue to evolve.

5. Pluto can reflect evolutionary processes that we don't understand at the time. In retrospect, after the dust has settled, we are often able to glean insight and perspective of evolutionary necessity. Can you think of a time in your life where there were powerful Pluto type cataclysmic experiences that you only later were able to understand?
5 - I have never been able to maintain an intimate relationship throughout my life and I have always wondered how this type of relationship could work if they mainly did not exist in the last 20 years (Sol, Mars, and Mercury in the 7th). Even by traditional astrology, I could not understand what was happening with my circumstances (Pluto in the 8th, and I have to understand). However, today I understand that I have to work on my self-esteem and self-concept first (PPP 2ª). I think this is also reinforced by the position of the South Nodes in the 7th and North in the 1st. The evolutionary astrology brings light to this whole situation.

6. What is the relationship between Pluto and the south node of the Moon?
6 - Pluto represents the soul's desires and the south node represents how those desires, that determine an evolutionary necessity, were expressed in the past and still are expressed in this life. It translates the energy where we have been, which is comfortable for us, although they represent stagnation if we remain there.

7. What is the relationship between the Pluto polarity point and the north node of the Moon?
7 - Pluto's polarity point represents the energy that we must integrate and work with as an evolutionary necessity but which at the same time is the antithesis of what we already know. The North node represents how we can express and integrate this energy in this life.

8. Why is it necessary to connect first with the inner soul really; where they are at in their evolutionary journey before interpreting the chart?
8 - We have to understand what is important for that soul, what information that can make a difference at the moment of its evolutionary journey. If the information is not relevant or does not fit, it does not resonate and is discarded or, at times, it can even be harmful by adding obstacles such as fears. The information must enable people to overcome obstacles and give them the power to do so.

I hope I have answered your first questions and sorry if there are mistakes in my writing. Thank you!

Hi Gauri,

Quote1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

The evolutionary theme can be the full gamut of tasting power in accumulation of external and/or material results, identifying with these results and the power itself while creating a self-identity of uniqueness (superiority/separateness/entitledness etc) that has deep storytelling threads of the vicissitudes of the these external material results. In other words also a self-image of a conqueror or a martyr.

The superiority archetype isn't inante to the 10th house. The psychology of superiority realtes to "better than" which, in my understanding, can be more accurately attributed to Aquarius (elitism) or Virgo (which relates to both thte psychology of superiority and inferiority) and I'm sure others as well.

The self image of a conqueror or a martyt would be true if Mars/Aries was involved (conqueror) or Pisces/Neptune (martyr). There is an association in the 10th house with doing hard work endurnig great difficulties/challenges in life including judgments, karmic consequences, learning tough lessons about responsibility, enduring hardships. But this is not the same as martyrdom.

QuoteThe soul theme, consequently then, might filter down to identifying meaning in the external world, or a void and disillusion with that result instead (even in the face of security achieved). This might create a persona (for future soul growth) with deeper complexities than just coming from the soul's  realm of finite experience. All in all, the soul theme of all the previous lives put  together  relevant to the present one would involve the externalization of self, together with the 'involute' of a question regarding the self itself - or the reality of this external ultimately!

Well articulated, I don't however get a strong feel for the nature of the evolutionary cycles implies by Pluto in the 10th in what you wrote. Disillusionment is not relevant to this archetype nor is identifying meaning in the external world (much of what you spoke actually feels more like Neptune in the 10th).

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The evolutionary intention of the current life is to internalise security progressively within the "interior" domain of the four walls that inhabit the self including the physical and the psycho-social up to psycho-spiritual. In so doing go through the range of experiences that challenge the notion of security by offering phasal suggestions of rooting and ground, relative failure of each thus exposing insecurity as a key player in the evolutonary intention being played out. In repeated and thorough challenging, the idea of security itself can be internalised as connected to the self, inner life and providing access points through the primary personal sphere - the home - the place where the ego structure first casts it's influence. In a gradual progression whether involving cataclysmic or non-cataclysmic evolution, lessons learnt before can be brought into the emotional energy-sphere where crystallised realisations can begin to be assimilated into core personality yielding a more spiritually coherent and soul-connected light, vision, direction and giving (pouring out) into the world - the Pluto polarity point in the 4th has the potential to initiate a Lunar Flow in the Soul which can soothe things, help with integration in the current life and all future progressions put together - such may be the relevance of the Emergence of this Lunar Dimension

Beautiful, well said. The core point here being the soul forming a relationship to itself from within itself, not relative to the external world.

Thank you for your work Gauri! I suggest you review some of the other posts, related to the first question in particular, just to get a more solid feel for the nature of Pluto in the 10th house. I see that you do understand the core of this material, just a need for some clarifications.

Hi Pisces Lady,

Quote1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

A majority of people with Pluto in the 10th have desired positions of social status or power in prior lives.  Status and power is the primary focus of validating their individuality, meaning and security.  This desire for power and security in their social world can lead to over identification with their career therefore creating an imbalance between work and home life.  Additionally, they may have attained social power by manipulating other people as a means to an end.  Hence one of the lessons to learn from prior-life abuses of power is accountability.  Over lifetimes with self-reflection often accompanied by bouts of depression, they grow to accept responsibility for their lives and conduct and evolve their ethical standards of behavior in their social and sometimes troubled home lives.

During many lives of experiencing Pluto in the 10th house, the incarnated soul will experience lives of powerlessness over their social position/status  to living lives in which they achieve a great deal of power.  Powerlessness can be the result of the individual not learning how the social system works or there may be a need to learn self-discipline and/or the necessity of applying sustained effort in achieving social goals.  In some lifetimes the individual may lack enough inner awareness to determine his social ambitions.  Other influences on powerlessness in a lifetime include a type of atonement for past life abuses of power or other karmic necessities which force the individual within to self-reflection and examination.  Over cycles of Pluto in the 10th the individual needs to learn the importance of self-determination, ethical behavior, self-discipline and sustained effort in order to meet social goals and attain status.

Pluto in the 10th can indicate a gender switch for some souls.

Excellent work, all really clear and well said.

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The individual will not be able to successfully actualize the social position they are karmically destined to perform without the inner reflection needed to realize that social power or position cannot create or sustain inner emotional security and that social position and power cannot define them as individuals.   They will need to learn thru many lifetimes that true inner security, personal value and identity can only be found internally thru self-reflection and examination.  Inner emotional security is not dependent upon social power or family dynamics.   Society's laws, rules and established traditions cannot serve as a substitute for self-determined rules and values.  As 10th house lessons are learned they can learn to balance home and work life, release critical and judgmental attitudes of self and others and achieve emotional maturity and personal fulfillment.

Once the individual has learned the lessons of self-determination, self-discipline and ethical standards of behavior, they can actualize the social role they came to fulfill and become a role model and or inspiration to others.

Excellent. One point I'd add is the peice on emotions: connecting with the inner emotional realm in order to access all that has been repressed. This can be deeply scary to a soul that has clung so stronlg to a construct of why they are or need to be. Jeffrey Wolf Green ofted described this as the need to "access chaos". This of course requires safety and trust... all 4th house type needs.
Thank you for your work Pisces-Lady!

Hi Sunflower,

QuoteHi Ari and thank you for this great opportunity for learning and practicing Evolutionary Astrology.
I am learning also how to use the quote tool. I am not native using English language but i hope i make myself understood.

1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

1.   Pluto in the 10th house or Capricorn, indicates a new evolutionary cycle of development, specific to all cardinal houses. The soul has been learning how to establish their own authority, individuality within society or through their social position. They have been learning lessons of discipline, and self determination. They have been fueled by ambition and the desire for higher position or social status and some of them through manipulation.
Individuals with this position need to learn about social structures, rules, lessons of power and control, how to become responsible for their own action and in society. Issues of guilt and judgement may occur if the evolutionary lessons were not understood.
In many cases individuals born with Pluto in the 10th house, have just switched genders, having the first experience of the opposite sex, which creates an imbalance in all senses, physical, mental emotional.

Excellent work. I'd add that Pluto int he 10th house can also relate to lessons of power vs powerlessness in a social sense. Sometimes there's a need to use ambition to get ahead, other times there's the need to exhaust the desires to hold on to a particular status in life. Also, a gender switch soul isn't necessarily imbalanced in all senses, physical, mental emotional. All cases are differnet - and if it's a soul's first life in a while in a particular gender, that can mean many things depending on the karmic conditions of the soul. The reason why it's relevant to the 10th house is that the 10th corresponds to social constructs as well as the parameters and limitations of time and space. So the gender we are born inro along with it's social roles/judgments/expectations, the family structure and society we are born into etc. All of this is 10th house.

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

2.   The evolutionary intention of current life signified by the polarity point in the 4th house, confirms the endings new beginning characteristics for cardinal houses. The soul learn to develop Cancer/4th house archetypes. They need to adjust back in their emotional bodies, to find emotional security within and within their families. Individuals learn to create a self image that is not dependent on outer achievements, on career or social function and learn to accept the responsibilities for their own lives.

Excellent. Thank you for your work Sunflower!

Hi Susana,

Quote1. Explain the inherent relationship between soul and ego.
1 - The soul is the primordial energy that has been removed from the source and is our true form. The ego derives from the soul, being a form of energy created by it, in this life to be able to express the soul's desires, according to its evolutionary and karmic necessities, so that the soul can evolve.

Nothing has been removed from source. It's our own desires that propell us to go seeking for security in what is ephemeral. God is always one with creation.

Quote2. What are the two antithetical desires of the soul?
2 - The two antithetical desires are the desire to separate from the source and the desire to return to the source. It is through the expression of these desires that the soul will continue its evolution until it can finally return to the source.

Specifically it's through the gradual exhaustion of all desires to seperate that the soul returns to Source.

Quote3. Why is cooperation or resistance with an evolutionary necessity the only two choices a soul can make?
3 - The two mechanisms that the soul has, through the ego, to express evolutionary desires or necessities are cooperation or resistance. Through cooperation, we will have a smoother evolutionary path. If there is resistance, cataclysmic events can occur, which makes evolution more complicated. It is the law of polarity, cooperation and resistance being the two ends of an axis.

4. What is involution and why does it always preceed evolution?
4 - Involution is an absence of evolution, a stagnation in the evolutionary path. It is necessary for the ego to feel the need to learn new concepts, new desires, that is, the need to continue to evolve.

The sense of stagnation can be a part of it, but more accurately the involutionary process is one wheirin the old form is dying before the new one emerges.

Quote5. Pluto can reflect evolutionary processes that we don't understand at the time. In retrospect, after the dust has settled, we are often able to glean insight and perspective of evolutionary necessity. Can you think of a time in your life where there were powerful Pluto type cataclysmic experiences that you only later were able to understand?

5 - I have never been able to maintain an intimate relationship throughout my life and I have always wondered how this type of relationship could work if they mainly did not exist in the last 20 years (Sol, Mars, and Mercury in the 7th). Even by traditional astrology, I could not understand what was happening with my circumstances (Pluto in the 8th, and I have to understand). However, today I understand that I have to work on my self-esteem and self-concept first (PPP 2ª). I think this is also reinforced by the position of the South Nodes in the 7th and North in the 1st. The evolutionary astrology brings light to this whole situation.

6. What is the relationship between Pluto and the south node of the Moon?
6 - Pluto represents the soul's desires and the south node represents how those desires, that determine an evolutionary necessity, were expressed in the past and still are expressed in this life. It translates the energy where we have been, which is comfortable for us, although they represent stagnation if we remain there.

7. What is the relationship between the Pluto polarity point and the north node of the Moon?
7 - Pluto's polarity point represents the energy that we must integrate and work with as an evolutionary necessity but which at the same time is the antithesis of what we already know. The North node represents how we can express and integrate this energy in this life.

8. Why is it necessary to connect first with the inner soul really; where they are at in their evolutionary journey before interpreting the chart?
8 - We have to understand what is important for that soul, what information that can make a difference at the moment of its evolutionary journey. If the information is not relevant or does not fit, it does not resonate and is discarded or, at times, it can even be harmful by adding obstacles such as fears. The information must enable people to overcome obstacles and give them the power to do so.

I hope I have answered your first questions and sorry if there are mistakes in my writing. Thank you!

Really great work Susana! Thanks for contributing and putting in the effort. Your answers reflect a very strong understanding and a genuine reflection on the material.

Hi everyone!

I will post the next assignment on Monday. There are 2 or 3 people still hoping to post and since this is the first step and there's a lot of material it feels good to move on on Monday.

Thank you to EVERYONE who is putting in the work and posting here. We are all at differnet levels and experiences with EA and astrology in general, so please remember not to compare yourself to anyone, but do review the work of others with my comments whenever you feel you need to clarify something.

For now you can start reading the Pluto in the 2nd house chapter to get a feel for the nature of the 2nd house archetype. I will post the assignment for adding the south node in the 2nd house on Monday.

Thank you for your work Gauri! I suggest you review some of the other posts, related to the first question in particular, just to get a more solid feel for the nature of Pluto in the 10th house. I see that you do understand the core of this material, just a need for some clarifications.

Hi Ari,
I loved reading your classwork-posts and went through them several times gapping them with contemplation and review. Reading the answers submitted was very grounding and informing too. I was going to start off my post by stating that being satisfied by all the points covered and repeated I am trying to add in my own way anything that I see in addition that might be different from what we are saying as answers. So your inputs are what I have truly looked forward to as they speak directly to what my understanding is shaping as. Thank you very much for the efforts.

Pluto questions
1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?


1. The desire of the soul with Pluto in the 10th house has been to play an important part in society, to assume a position of authority.  Now, in order to do this, the person had to learn about the ways how to attain such position. The  person also had to be self determined and disciplined to achieve this goal.   Depending on how new this desire is the person either already can be self-disciplined and determined or is still learning about how important it is.
The problem is that societies are different and ways how to attain status and authority positions depend on the structure of a given society. So if a society is corrupt and one wants to succeed in it, then one learns corrupt manipulative ways to do so. This can cause problems for the soul later on the way.
Another problem is if the person overly identifies with the position of the authority itself, the sense of person's identity may seem to be identical with the person's status in society.  Since Pluto correlates to our sense of security, often unconscious and not reflected, the loss of this position may be perceived as catastrophic and a person might be tempted to go to great lengths to avoid it.   
Ideal manifestation of this desire is a person who is able to establish their own authority in a society and thus provide a service for the society, often a service that benefits the society as a whole. Also the way in which a person attains power is void of any self-serving manipulation.

10th Pluto placement can also indicate a recent gender switch. The previous gender was no longer promoting soul evolution and the switch occurred. This can be unsettling for the person, since gender roles assigned by society are new for a person.

2. The evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house is to find the sense of security from within a person, not to derive it from or identify it with the position of power, authority and status. A large part of the 4th house is about our emotions, accepting them and the feeling of vulnerability that goes with them. When they start to accept themselves as emotional being, they become more human and less judgmental towards themseves and others.

Hi Ari (Do you prefer to be called Ari or Ari Moshe?),

Would you please provide feedback for my comprehension reflections? Also, when reading the Pluto chapter (my book arrived early! I'll be able to send in my answers to the first assignment on the 10th house some time tomorrow, Sunday), a few questions came up that I will post below my answers.

Quote1. Explain the inherent relationship between soul and ego.

The Soul is the eternal aspect, emanating directly from Great Spirit Source, while the Ego is the temporal expression of the Soul through one lifetime. it's the personality construct created by the Soul in a specific way of orienting/emotionally integrating to the world in a single lifetime.

Quote2. What are the two antithetical desires of the soul?

-Return to Source
-Separate from Source

Quote3. Why is cooperation or resistance with evolutionary necessity the only two choices a soul can make?

Because there is nothing but evolution - it's the natural process all Souls go through to return to Source. Thus, you can surrender to it or resist.

Quote4. What is involution and why does it always preceed evolution?

Involution is the complete dissolution of all that has previously been known and worked for the Soul. It's the letting go in order to move forward and evolve. Letting go of ego structure and way of doing things that no longer works. In order to further evolution, this must happen because you can't choose a new way forward if you're still attached to the old way, old you, that is no longer relevant to present reality.

Quote5. Pluto can reflect evolutionary processes that we don't understand at the time. In retrospect, after the dust has settled, we are often able to glean insight and perspective of evolutionary necessity. Can you think of a time in your life where there were powerful Pluto type cataclysmic experiences that you only later were able to understand?

I don't know how to look at past charts so I don't know what/if there was a Pluto transit happening at this time for me, but the feeling of this experience was Plutonian. About 3 years ago, my partner and his mentor cut ties with me, my partner breaking up with me and our friend distancing himself. I had unconsciously put both of them on pedestals, and this shock created a situation in which I had to reconstruct my sense of self so that it was founded on my own self worth and self love independent of my partner. I found my own reasons to love and value myself outside of the Other.

Quote6. What is the relationship between Pluto and the south node of the Moon?

Pluto represents an area where the Soul has been focusing on those evolutionary lessons. SN represents the kind of ego structure through which the Soul has integrated those lessons. Therefore, there can be attachments to the SN orientation that are holding the Soul back from making necessary changes for evolution.

Quote7. What is the relationship between the Pluto polarity point and the north node of the Moon?

Both of these symbols are balancing points for the Soul: areas a Soul can focus on in order to soften their resistance to evolution. In the case of the PPP, there is less of a background and therefore less that is known to cling to. The NN is the kind of identity the Soul can consciously move towards in order to release attachments to the past and what no longer serves or is holding the Soul back in terms of their past ego structure. Both the PPP and the NN are areas that oppose and balance the previous ways the Soul has chosen to evolve and see itself, and therefore provide freshness and a means to detach from old attachments to the past and old methods of control/fear/resistance. There is less of a rut relative to where the Soul has been and what the Soul has already learned.

Quote8. Why is it necessary to connect first with the inner soul reality; where they are at in their own evolutionary journey before interpreting the chart?

It's important to understand the Soul's evolutionary stage first because the information you might find in a chart would correlate to completely different kinds of experiences and lessons of evolution depending on where the Soul is at.

Questions

-If the Soul has been orienting to 10th House lessons, symbolized by Pluto placement, does that mean that in previous lives their Pluto would have been positioned in a Cancerian/4th House place? Since that would have indicated their evolutionary intention to be 10th House?

-What exactly is meant by "evolutionary cycle," in the context of cardinal signs indicating the ending of one such cycle and the beginning of another? Could that refer to another planet aspecting Pluto completing a full phase rotation through the 360 degrees? Or would that refer to a Plutonian evolutionary cycle wherein a Soul exhausts all desires relative to a specific Pluto placement? Do Souls all move through the same trajectory in terms of Pluto placement across all their lifetimes, and that is how we know this about Cardinal signs? I would think not, since desire is infinite and so are karmic conditions, which would indicate infinite trajectories of evolution in term of Pluto placement and astrological placements of the whole birthchart.

Blessings,
Rebecca

Hi Ari,

I have chosen to answer the first set of questions as I am completely new to the formal study of EA. I still have to work on Q8 and the 2 Pluto questions which I will complete in a day. I realize my answers are long and I prefer to work with it in this manner initially so as to deepen my understanding from the ground up. going forward, I will endeavor to keep my answers brief as I get confident with the material. I did this work in a Word Doc so copy-pasting here directly, hence do not know how to bring the Quote option here. Deeply grateful Ari for all your energy and patience...


Q1.Explain the inherent relationship between Soul and Ego.

There is evidence all around us that Manifested Creation exists.
And by virtue of the fact that a Manifested Creation exists, it organically follows that there is an Origin to this Manifested Creation.
This Origin of Manifested Creation, we know of as the Origin of All Things, The Source or God/Goddess.
Universal Consciousness is a part of the Manifested Creation, and the totality of Consciousness also emanates from
The Source.  Consciousness is energy and it is in all life forms. All these life forms appear separate from each other, because of our individual External structure/form, and yet we are all connected to each other because Beyond the External structure/form, we are all manifestations of the same Universal Consciousness/energy.
So on the one hand, Consciousness can individualize itself as a plant or a human form, and on the other hand, it is the Universal aspect of consciousness that binds all the individual aspects of Consciousness together.
Universal Consciousness manifests us...human beings and the consciousness within us.
Human consciousness has a natural individualizing aspect to it, which is called the Soul. The Soul is an immutable consciousness and energy because energy can never be destroyed, it can only change Form and evolve.

So how does the Soul evolve?
With the intent of Evolution, the Soul takes on a human form that focuses on a certain Desire/s and thereby allows for a new Experience/Lifetime.
The Soul manifests the Ego, which is also an energy form. In each new Experience/ lifetime, the Ego is created by the Soul.  Each Ego is oriented to reality in such a way that the very nature of that specific orientation serves as the vessel through which the life lessons/storyline can be played out and be understood and harnessed by the Soul.
In each lifetime, the Ego plays out a specific Self-Image of the Soul, whereby it allows the Soul to "KNOW THYSELF" in human terms.
The Ego is also like a satellite to the Soul. It has no innate intelligence of its own. It just forms into an Ego Structure when the Soul directs its attention on a Desire/s and then allows for the play to unfold. Ego Structure is always limited in its capacity to Self-Reflect
It is important to note that when the Soul identifies with the existing Ego Structure, it will not by default understand the "Why" behind each Experience/Lifetime.
I, as a human being, in seeking to understand the "Why" behind my Experience/Lifetime, will keep in mind that I am going BEYOND EGO to the Level of my Soul, where the more relevant and the deeper weaving is grasped, far deeper than my current Ego Structure can ever grasp, and therein lies the potential for Evolution.


Q 2. What are the 2 Antithetical desires of the soul?

In our soul there exist 2 Antithetical desires.  They are:
The Desire to return to Source, the Origin of all of us, of Creation.
And the other, the Desire to separate from Source, that which is the Origin of all of us, of Creation.
In the Desire to return to Source is embedded a deep Knowing and understanding that we are here on Earth for the sole purpose of our Evolution. In this Desire, there is a willingness to do whatever it takes to move on to the next phase of life and be willing to let go when its time to let go.
In the Desire to separate from Source, there is a fixation on that which is Impermanent, and the Soul perceives it as a need to control and maintain the Desire/Storyline being played out.

Q 4.  What is Involution and why does it always precede Evolution?

There are many Natural Laws that govern anything that exists in the totality of Manifested Creation.
3 such Laws are The Law of Evolution, the Law of Survival and the Law of Involution.
The Natural Law of Evolution is based on the Universal human experience in which we are in a constant state of becoming. No experience or state of being, form or structure is the end goal. Evolution is the changing of a form, a structure, a dynamic...a change of anything.

So when does the process of Evolution come into play?
The Natural Law of Involution precedes Evolution.
When the form, structure or dynamic of something that is pre-existing, reaches a state of stagnation or non-growth, it means that it has reached its limit. It has played its part to the fullest. Something has got to give.
It is at this stage that the Natural Law of Survival gets ignited so as to ensure the continued survival of that particular life form, structure or dynamic, and thereby the Natural Law of Involution unfolds.
For eg. When the Caterpillar reaches its Evolutionary limit (stagnation) it has to go...but t has not yet come to know itself in the New form.
This is the Involutionary phase that always preceded Evolution. For the Caterpillar, the Chrysalis Phase is the Involutionary phase...the process of its old form coming to an end.
We cannot hold on to what is dying and we have to shed and let go, and subsequently, Evolution occurs if we co-operate and the New form emerges.

Q 5. Pluto can reflect processes that we don't understand at the time. In retrospect, after the dust has settled, we are often able to glean insight and perspective of evolutionary necessity. Can you think of a time in your life where there were powerful Pluto type cataclysmic experiences that you only later were able to understand?

Yes, I do remember such a time though I am not technically aware of Pluto's position, etc in my chart at that time.
It was Sept 2014 when I experienced what was a Pluto type cataclysmic event in my personal life. To put it simply it was traumatic, but retrospectively the beauty in it was also trying to reveal itself to me. Back then I felt a holding that I could not understand at the head level"¦but felt it in my heart and deeper when a month later in October I was on Amazon searching for a specific book when Jeffrey's Pluto Vol 1 popped up on my screen. Up until then I never had an interest in Astrology enough to want to get a book or know more. But as I read the synopsis something moved inside me and I ordered the book. When the book arrived I read parts of it and Jeffrey's words which spoke to me at a cellular level and soothed me in a way I will never ever forget. I knew deep within that this was what I wanted to read, study and know more of. I put the book away after reading it for a bit, as back then I was still trying my best to cope with the aftermath. But I knew I would go back to know more someday"¦over these past few years, I kept in touch with the material, and now here I am ready to dive deep"¦I feel I am home..feel blessed and grateful to be here"¦

Q 6: What is the relationship between Pluto and the South Node of the Moon?

Pluto, in our natal chart, represents our Soul, the Desire nature of our Soul...the kind of Desires our Soul had in the past, which has led to the creation of our current life.
The Moon correlates to the Ego Structure, which Pluto, our Soul has manifested in this current life.
In each lifetime, the Ego is oriented to Reality in such a way that the very nature of that specific orientation serves as the vessel through which the life lessons can be played out, and be understood by the Soul/Pluto.
The Moon teaches us that nothing in our life is real to us unless it gets integrated through the emotional body. Just a conceptual knowledge is not enough.
The Moon is THIS current lifetime, and thus, is our present moment to moment point of emotional integration. But we have all lived before in other incarnations where we had a sense of self.  The emotional memories of these past incarnations/sense of self are within our Soul when we are again born into this world, already carrying a sense of emotional familiarity to the past.
The South Node of the Moon represents who the Soul has been, how it has consciously known itself prior to this current life.
The South Node of the Moon contains a holographic picture of many lifetimes. It is the Soul's pattern of self-identification.
The Ego(Moon) is the satellite to the Soul(Pluto).
The South Node of the Moon represents the way in which the Soul(Pluto) has incarnated in this lifetime to play out the storyline it has chosen for its Evolution.
And within the South Node of the Moon is embedded 2 paths...one where the Soul(Pluto) may have become empowered (South Node as a vehicle for Pluto) where the Soul(Pluto) has chosen to co-operate with Evolutionary necessity.
And the other where the Soul(Pluto) may be stuck in karmic patterns because the Soul(Pluto) is resisting Evolution and taking the stance of wanting to control what cannot be controlled.

Q 7. What is the relationship between the Pluto Polarity point and the North Node of the Moon?

The North Node of the Moon represents Pluto- the Soul's Evolutionary trajectory. It is how Pluto, the Soul is learning to see itself and its life.
The North Node is a direction in life for Pluto(Soul) to consciously choose.
For many souls, the North Node can be a point of emotional resistance because the South Node is where the Soul (Pluto) feels secure and tends to default towards.
By virtue of the fact that the North Node of the Moon represents the Soul's (Pluto) evolutionary trajectory, and when we make a conscious choice to think and act differently Beyond the safety of the Known( South Node of the Moon) and consciously move towards the North Node of the Moon, the Soul's(Pluto) Polarity point also gets activated by default.
Evolutionary necessity is not being resisted, and when this happens, our Soul(Pluto) can harness the gifts embedded in the South Node of the Moon, without having to identify with them.

Q 8. Why is it necessary to connect first with the inner soul reality, where they are at in their own Evolutionary journey before interpreting the chart?

According to Natural Law, there are 4 Natural Evolutionary Conditions or stages of a Soul's  Evolution.
But most modern astrology completely ignores this Natural Law, and works with an understanding that "one size fits all". There is no Individual Context.
But it is so simply clear that all of us souls here on this planet are so different in both our inner and outer worlds, so the "one size fits all" approach would not be the full picture of our maps.
A core truth about Astrology is that it works only when there is an Observed context. Therefore it is necessary to first connect with the inner soul reality so that we can "Observe" where they are in their own Evolutionary journey before interpreting their charts.

Hi Barbora,

Quote1. The desire of the soul with Pluto in the 10th house has been to play an important part in society, to assume a position of authority.  Now, in order to do this, the person had to learn about the ways how to attain such position. The  person also had to be self determined and disciplined to achieve this goal.   Depending on how new this desire is the person either already can be self-disciplined and determined or is still learning about how important it is.

The problem is that societies are different and ways how to attain status and authority positions depend on the structure of a given society. So if a society is corrupt and one wants to succeed in it, then one learns corrupt manipulative ways to do so. This can cause problems for the soul later on the way.
Another problem is if the person overly identifies with the position of the authority itself, the sense of person's identity may seem to be identical with the person's status in society.  Since Pluto correlates to our sense of security, often unconscious and not reflected, the loss of this position may be perceived as catastrophic and a person might be tempted to go to great lengths to avoid it.   
Ideal manifestation of this desire is a person who is able to establish their own authority in a society and thus provide a service for the society, often a service that benefits the society as a whole. Also the way in which a person attains power is void of any self-serving manipulation.

10th Pluto placement can also indicate a recent gender switch. The previous gender was no longer promoting soul evolution and the switch occurred. This can be unsettling for the person, since gender roles assigned by society are new for a person.

This is all accurate and I want to make sure you undersatnd that not all 10th house Pluto souls have or had the desire to play an important part in society or assume a position of authority. We can have a 10th house Pluto soul who is simply devestated by social judgments and lives their life giving their power away to external authority. Or it can be a parent who isn't necessarily assuming a position of authority in society, but will need to show up for the resopnsibilities of being a parent and thus evolve through that. For some souls evolution might be about quitting their job and doing something else entirely. The evolutionary trajectory ultimately is finding aurhotiy within the soul itself. All the outer expressions and roles, including social power and status, being important socially not being important socially, come and go as needed; impermanence.

Quote2. The evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house is to find the sense of security from within a person, not to derive it from or identify it with the position of power, authority and status. A large part of the 4th house is about our emotions, accepting them and the feeling of vulnerability that goes with them. When they start to accept themselves as emotional being, they become more human and less judgmental towards themseves and others.

Excellent, well said. Thank you for your work Barbora!

Hello, Ari,
thank you very much for your feedback.
Barbora

Hi Rebecca,

QuoteHi Ari (Do you prefer to be called Ari or Ari Moshe?),

Either is fine!

QuoteWould you please provide feedback for my comprehension reflections? Also, when reading the Pluto chapter (my book arrived early! I'll be able to send in my answers to the first assignment on the 10th house some time tomorrow, Sunday), a few questions came up that I will post below my answers.

1. Explain the inherent relationship between soul and ego.

The Soul is the eternal aspect, emanating directly from Great Spirit Source, while the Ego is the temporal expression of the Soul through one lifetime. it's the personality construct created by the Soul in a specific way of orienting/emotionally integrating to the world in a single lifetime.

Excellent, really well said.

Quote2. What are the two antithetical desires of the soul?

-Return to Source
-Separate from Source


3. Why is cooperation or resistance with evolutionary necessity the only two choices a soul can make?

Because there is nothing but evolution - it's the natural process all Souls go through to return to Source. Thus, you can surrender to it or resist.


4. What is involution and why does it always preceed evolution?

Involution is the complete dissolution of all that has previously been known and worked for the Soul. It's the letting go in order to move forward and evolve. Letting go of ego structure and way of doing things that no longer works. In order to further evolution, this must happen because you can't choose a new way forward if you're still attached to the old way, old you, that is no longer relevant to present reality.


5. Pluto can reflect evolutionary processes that we don't understand at the time. In retrospect, after the dust has settled, we are often able to glean insight and perspective of evolutionary necessity. Can you think of a time in your life where there were powerful Pluto type cataclysmic experiences that you only later were able to understand?

I don't know how to look at past charts so I don't know what/if there was a Pluto transit happening at this time for me, but the feeling of this experience was Plutonian. About 3 years ago, my partner and his mentor cut ties with me, my partner breaking up with me and our friend distancing himself. I had unconsciously put both of them on pedestals, and this shock created a situation in which I had to reconstruct my sense of self so that it was founded on my own self worth and self love independent of my partner. I found my own reasons to love and value myself outside of the Other.


6. What is the relationship between Pluto and the south node of the Moon?

Pluto represents an area where the Soul has been focusing on those evolutionary lessons. SN represents the kind of ego structure through which the Soul has integrated those lessons. Therefore, there can be attachments to the SN orientation that are holding the Soul back from making necessary changes for evolution.


7. What is the relationship between the Pluto polarity point and the north node of the Moon?

Both of these symbols are balancing points for the Soul: areas a Soul can focus on in order to soften their resistance to evolution. In the case of the PPP, there is less of a background and therefore less that is known to cling to. The NN is the kind of identity the Soul can consciously move towards in order to release attachments to the past and what no longer serves or is holding the Soul back in terms of their past ego structure. Both the PPP and the NN are areas that oppose and balance the previous ways the Soul has chosen to evolve and see itself, and therefore provide freshness and a means to detach from old attachments to the past and old methods of control/fear/resistance. There is less of a rut relative to where the Soul has been and what the Soul has already learned.

One clarification "In the case of the PPP, there is less of a backgrond and therefore less that is known to cling to." A more accurate way to think of the PPP is not that it's necessarily less familiar, but that it's actually where the soul needs to focus (Pluto) in order to evolve beyond it's existing limitations (Pluto). The PPP is the point for conscious evolution. When speaking about the North Node, it does make mroe sense to use the phrase "less familiar". The north node (generally) reprsents what is less known, and thus it's a matter of overcoming resistance to embracing it in favor of staying where it is comfortable and familiar (south node). We'll get to apply all this soon!

Quote8. Why is it necessary to connect first with the inner soul reality; where they are at in their own evolutionary journey before interpreting the chart?

It's important to understand the Soul's evolutionary stage first because the information you might find in a chart would correlate to completely different kinds of experiences and lessons of evolution depending on where the Soul is at.

Excellent work Rebecca! All very well said and reflects a clear understanding of the core principals.

QuoteQuestions

-If the Soul has been orienting to 10th House lessons, symbolized by Pluto placement, does that mean that in previous lives their Pluto would have been positioned in a Cancerian/4th House place? Since that would have indicated their evolutionary intention to be 10th House?

No.

Quote-What exactly is meant by "evolutionary cycle," in the context of cardinal signs indicating the ending of one such cycle and the beginning of another? Could that refer to another planet aspecting Pluto completing a full phase rotation through the 360 degrees? Or would that refer to a Plutonian evolutionary cycle wherein a Soul exhausts all desires relative to a specific Pluto placement? Do Souls all move through the same trajectory in terms of Pluto placement across all their lifetimes, and that is how we know this about Cardinal signs? I would think not, since desire is infinite and so are karmic conditions, which would indicate infinite trajectories of evolution in term of Pluto placement and astrological placements of the whole birthchart.

I'll let Rad answer that.

Hi Geeta,

QuoteI have chosen to answer the first set of questions as I am completely new to the formal study of EA. I still have to work on Q8 and the 2 Pluto questions which I will complete in a day. I realize my answers are long and I prefer to work with it in this manner initially so as to deepen my understanding from the ground up. going forward, I will endeavor to keep my answers brief as I get confident with the material. I did this work in a Word Doc so copy-pasting here directly, hence do not know how to bring the Quote option here. Deeply grateful Ari for all your energy and patience...

Not a problem, I understand that approach.

QuoteQ1.Explain the inherent relationship between Soul and Ego.

There is evidence all around us that Manifested Creation exists.
And by virtue of the fact that a Manifested Creation exists, it organically follows that there is an Origin to this Manifested Creation.
This Origin of Manifested Creation, we know of as the Origin of All Things, The Source or God/Goddess.
Universal Consciousness is a part of the Manifested Creation, and the totality of Consciousness also emanates from
The Source.  Consciousness is energy and it is in all life forms. All these life forms appear separate from each other, because of our individual External structure/form, and yet we are all connected to each other because Beyond the External structure/form, we are all manifestations of the same Universal Consciousness/energy.
So on the one hand, Consciousness can individualize itself as a plant or a human form, and on the other hand, it is the Universal aspect of consciousness that binds all the individual aspects of Consciousness together.
Universal Consciousness manifests us...human beings and the consciousness within us.
Human consciousness has a natural individualizing aspect to it, which is called the Soul. The Soul is an immutable consciousness and energy because energy can never be destroyed, it can only change Form and evolve.

So how does the Soul evolve?
With the intent of Evolution, the Soul takes on a human form that focuses on a certain Desire/s and thereby allows for a new Experience/Lifetime.
The Soul manifests the Ego, which is also an energy form. In each new Experience/ lifetime, the Ego is created by the Soul.  Each Ego is oriented to reality in such a way that the very nature of that specific orientation serves as the vessel through which the life lessons/storyline can be played out and be understood and harnessed by the Soul.
In each lifetime, the Ego plays out a specific Self-Image of the Soul, whereby it allows the Soul to "KNOW THYSELF" in human terms.
The Ego is also like a satellite to the Soul. It has no innate intelligence of its own. It just forms into an Ego Structure when the Soul directs its attention on a Desire/s and then allows for the play to unfold. Ego Structure is always limited in its capacity to Self-Reflect
It is important to note that when the Soul identifies with the existing Ego Structure, it will not by default understand the "Why" behind each Experience/Lifetime.
I, as a human being, in seeking to understand the "Why" behind my Experience/Lifetime, will keep in mind that I am going BEYOND EGO to the Level of my Soul, where the more relevant and the deeper weaving is grasped, far deeper than my current Ego Structure can ever grasp, and therein lies the potential for Evolution.


Q 2. What are the 2 Antithetical desires of the soul?

In our soul there exist 2 Antithetical desires.  They are:
The Desire to return to Source, the Origin of all of us, of Creation.
And the other, the Desire to separate from Source, that which is the Origin of all of us, of Creation.
In the Desire to return to Source is embedded a deep Knowing and understanding that we are here on Earth for the sole purpose of our Evolution. In this Desire, there is a willingness to do whatever it takes to move on to the next phase of life and be willing to let go when its time to let go.
In the Desire to separate from Source, there is a fixation on that which is Impermanent, and the Soul perceives it as a need to control and maintain the Desire/Storyline being played out.

Q 4.  What is Involution and why does it always precede Evolution?

There are many Natural Laws that govern anything that exists in the totality of Manifested Creation.
3 such Laws are The Law of Evolution, the Law of Survival and the Law of Involution.
The Natural Law of Evolution is based on the Universal human experience in which we are in a constant state of becoming. No experience or state of being, form or structure is the end goal. Evolution is the changing of a form, a structure, a dynamic...a change of anything.

So when does the process of Evolution come into play?
The Natural Law of Involution precedes Evolution.
When the form, structure or dynamic of something that is pre-existing, reaches a state of stagnation or non-growth, it means that it has reached its limit. It has played its part to the fullest. Something has got to give.
It is at this stage that the Natural Law of Survival gets ignited so as to ensure the continued survival of that particular life form, structure or dynamic, and thereby the Natural Law of Involution unfolds.
For eg. When the Caterpillar reaches its Evolutionary limit (stagnation) it has to go...but t has not yet come to know itself in the New form.
This is the Involutionary phase that always preceded Evolution. For the Caterpillar, the Chrysalis Phase is the Involutionary phase...the process of its old form coming to an end.
We cannot hold on to what is dying and we have to shed and let go, and subsequently, Evolution occurs if we co-operate and the New form emerges.

Q 5. Pluto can reflect processes that we don't understand at the time. In retrospect, after the dust has settled, we are often able to glean insight and perspective of evolutionary necessity. Can you think of a time in your life where there were powerful Pluto type cataclysmic experiences that you only later were able to understand?

Yes, I do remember such a time though I am not technically aware of Pluto's position, etc in my chart at that time.
It was Sept 2014 when I experienced what was a Pluto type cataclysmic event in my personal life. To put it simply it was traumatic, but retrospectively the beauty in it was also trying to reveal itself to me. Back then I felt a holding that I could not understand at the head level"¦but felt it in my heart and deeper when a month later in October I was on Amazon searching for a specific book when Jeffrey's Pluto Vol 1 popped up on my screen. Up until then I never had an interest in Astrology enough to want to get a book or know more. But as I read the synopsis something moved inside me and I ordered the book. When the book arrived I read parts of it and Jeffrey's words which spoke to me at a cellular level and soothed me in a way I will never ever forget. I knew deep within that this was what I wanted to read, study and know more of. I put the book away after reading it for a bit, as back then I was still trying my best to cope with the aftermath. But I knew I would go back to know more someday"¦over these past few years, I kept in touch with the material, and now here I am ready to dive deep"¦I feel I am home..feel blessed and grateful to be here"¦

Q 6: What is the relationship between Pluto and the South Node of the Moon?

Pluto, in our natal chart, represents our Soul, the Desire nature of our Soul...the kind of Desires our Soul had in the past, which has led to the creation of our current life.
The Moon correlates to the Ego Structure, which Pluto, our Soul has manifested in this current life.
In each lifetime, the Ego is oriented to Reality in such a way that the very nature of that specific orientation serves as the vessel through which the life lessons can be played out, and be understood by the Soul/Pluto.
The Moon teaches us that nothing in our life is real to us unless it gets integrated through the emotional body. Just a conceptual knowledge is not enough.
The Moon is THIS current lifetime, and thus, is our present moment to moment point of emotional integration. But we have all lived before in other incarnations where we had a sense of self.  The emotional memories of these past incarnations/sense of self are within our Soul when we are again born into this world, already carrying a sense of emotional familiarity to the past.
The South Node of the Moon represents who the Soul has been, how it has consciously known itself prior to this current life.
The South Node of the Moon contains a holographic picture of many lifetimes. It is the Soul's pattern of self-identification.
The Ego(Moon) is the satellite to the Soul(Pluto).
The South Node of the Moon represents the way in which the Soul(Pluto) has incarnated in this lifetime to play out the storyline it has chosen for its Evolution.
And within the South Node of the Moon is embedded 2 paths...one where the Soul(Pluto) may have become empowered (South Node as a vehicle for Pluto) where the Soul(Pluto) has chosen to co-operate with Evolutionary necessity.
And the other where the Soul(Pluto) may be stuck in karmic patterns because the Soul(Pluto) is resisting Evolution and taking the stance of wanting to control what cannot be controlled.

Q 7. What is the relationship between the Pluto Polarity point and the North Node of the Moon?

The North Node of the Moon represents Pluto- the Soul's Evolutionary trajectory. It is how Pluto, the Soul is learning to see itself and its life.
The North Node is a direction in life for Pluto(Soul) to consciously choose.
For many souls, the North Node can be a point of emotional resistance because the South Node is where the Soul (Pluto) feels secure and tends to default towards.
By virtue of the fact that the North Node of the Moon represents the Soul's (Pluto) evolutionary trajectory, and when we make a conscious choice to think and act differently Beyond the safety of the Known( South Node of the Moon) and consciously move towards the North Node of the Moon, the Soul's(Pluto) Polarity point also gets activated by default.
Evolutionary necessity is not being resisted, and when this happens, our Soul(Pluto) can harness the gifts embedded in the South Node of the Moon, without having to identify with them.

Q 8. Why is it necessary to connect first with the inner soul reality, where they are at in their own Evolutionary journey before interpreting the chart?

According to Natural Law, there are 4 Natural Evolutionary Conditions or stages of a Soul's  Evolution.
But most modern astrology completely ignores this Natural Law, and works with an understanding that "one size fits all". There is no Individual Context.
But it is so simply clear that all of us souls here on this planet are so different in both our inner and outer worlds, so the "one size fits all" approach would not be the full picture of our maps.
A core truth about Astrology is that it works only when there is an Observed context. Therefore it is necessary to first connect with the inner soul reality so that we can "Observe" where they are in their own Evolutionary journey before interpreting their charts.

Great work Geeta! Everything you wrote expresses a clear understanding of the core principals. Thank you for your work and efforts!

Hi Rebecca,

A new evolutionary cycle simply means that the Soul has had a series of prior lives in which is has been acting upon core desires in a variety of ways that had reached a point of culmination relative to those desires that has then lead to initiating a new evolutionary cycle in which a new core set of desires will be acted upon for it's ongoing evolutionary needs. So, for example, a 4th House Pluto correlates with a new evolutionary cycle in which the Soul will create lifetimes in which a core dynamic of actualizing a state of absolute inner emotional security occurs in a diversity of circumstances that the Soul designs for that core evolutionary intention.

Desires of a separating nature are not infinite. They are in fact finite which leads back to the only desire that is infinite: to return to the Source of that which has created everything. It is this natural interaction of the finite desires with the infinite desire that manifests as evolution and involution.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Ari,

Thank you very much for your feedback on the earlier answers.
Here is Q 3 and the 2 Pluto questions.

Thank you for your energy and patience.


3. Why is Co-operation or Resistance with Evolutionary necessity the only 2 choices a Soul can make?

Cooperation or Resistance with Evolutionary necessity are Laws of Nature and according to the laws, the evolution of our Soul is dependent on us working through all our Desires until the only Desire left is to return to Source.
When we reach a point of stagnation where no growth occurs, the Natural Law of Survival comes into play so as to ensure our survival, thereby igniting the Law of Involution whereby our Soul is pushed to change and evolve. There is an Evolutionary necessity that is created.  This natural Law by which we are governed presents our Soul with only 2 choices, either to Cooperate with Evolutionary necessity in accepting the inevitable and doing what we know is necessary. When our Soul chooses to cooperate we are empowered because we are taking the responsibility for our Evolution into our own hands.

The other choice is to take a stance of Resistance whereby our Soul wants to control what cannot be controlled. Resistance goes against the Law of Evolution, so life will give our Soul chances to wake up and see the truth of the inner reality. If our Soul still chooses to resist, the Law of Evolution is left with no choice but to ignite a cataclysm in our life to push us toward our evolution.

Pluto Questions:
Q 1. What is the Evolutionary theme of Soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one?

This Soul has been learning how to establish their individuality, authority and the way to integrate their own philosophy on society, learning how society works thereby learning, related lessons in discipline, self-determination, learning about their own values, beliefs, desires, and needs, and to link their individual purpose to a social purpose, thereby learning lessons in social and emotional maturity.
Many of these souls have desired positions of power and social status, and have learned how to manipulate the system to get to the top, believing that the ends justify the means. They needed to be in control of their position within society rather than allowing society to control them. But they learned the lesson of power and powerlessness when faced with a corrupt, unjust and manipulative society and succumbed by operating the same way, justifying by claiming "this is the way it works", thereby avoiding personal responsibility.
Abusing power in lifetimes, coming back carrying an inherent sense of guilt, thereby feeling like they don't deserve anything in the current life, feeling resigned to their lot in life, thereby attempting to "atone for prior sins". Feeling frustrated because they don't understand why they feel this way in the current life. Being heavily judgemental towards others. Some are blocked by society from fulfilling their goals, others block themselves...close their own doors. This condition enforces reflection through which the Soul can either become self-aware of the inner motivations, or the reflection can lead to depression and a sense of futility, lack of power and control of their life. Guilt can occur within them through their awareness of their failure to utilize their potential, or they project the guilt outward when they blame their condition on society as a whole or on others, rather than recognizing the truth that the responsibility for such conditions is their own.
Other souls master lessons of self-determination, self-discipline, and self-responsibility and the way that society operates to realize ambition and meaningful social positions. If these lessons have been learned before, some of these souls can play large or small roles in society, with little effort, impacting lives in a transformative way. Now they will feel contempt and dislike for those who operate in devious ways to achieve their goals and they confront and expose them to their motivations, thereby creating a space to influence others to higher conduct.
Through these souls, archetypically we come face to face with our mortality and the awareness that we have a time span within which to fulfill our destiny. This awareness enforces lessons of social and emotional maturity..."grow up and get on with it".
Some of these souls have switched gender because a state of imbalance had been reached and further evolution could not happen through the earlier gender, the gender was switched to promote balance and further growth. This hormonal shift can create emotional moods and feelings that the soul cannot relate to or control. The Evolutionary need is to become aware of the triggers rather than becoming a victim to them...self-knowledge grows.


Q 2. What is the Evolutionary intent of the current life as signified by the Pluto Polarity Point in the 4th House?

The Evolutionary intent of the Soul in its current life as signified by the Pluto Polarity in the 4th House is to develop internal security, a sense of individuality that is rooted in their own value systems, and sense of personal fulfillment that is not tied in any manner to a social position or a need to succeed in the external world...work/career.
They are also learning lessons of the heart and emotions, the emotional lessons being learned in family situations...one or both parents, the marriage partner or children, or both.
A sense of completion within themselves as they harness lessons of the head and the heart.

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 03, 2020, 11:48 AM
Practice: Pluto in the 10th house
For our first practice we will start with Pluto in the 10th house.


Pluto questions
1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.


2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

Hello Ari!
Thank you for your comments on the previous post.
There are my answers relative to Pluto in the 10th or Capricorn

1. The theme of soul growth in Pluto in the 10th house or in Capricorn has to do with the development and definition of your individuality of that soul through its position or social function in the "extended family", country or culture.
For this to happen, these individuals are learning lessons related to the current social dynamics, about taking responsibility for their actions, about power versus social submission, about self-determination and self-discipline.
This learning takes place through cycles where, at times, individuals may not understand or accept social limits or rules or try to control the system in their favor by manipulating and using people, leading to abuse of power as a way of controlling society. They can bring an intense feeling of guilt associated with abuses of power in previous lives, as well as showing an attitude of resignation in the face of the difficulties they face, which is a means of punishment and compensation for the way they acted in the past. This guilt is often reinforced by parental behavior in childhood (too much rigidity and authoritarianism, absence of parental responsibility).
At other times, there are cycles where they can learn these lessons through intense reflection that leads to an awareness of how and why they are in these circumstances. In a positive way, they change the focus of the responsibilities of the "others" (external) to the own (internal) creating the means to develop a more socially mature individuality that allows them to exercise their social function with less effort and with an impact positive and transformative.

2. The evolutionary intention regarding the polarity point of Pluto in Cancer and house 4, are learnings related to security, identity and personal fulfillment, whether connected or not to the need for success and social position. There will also be learning at an emotional level that can be translated into dynamics (ex: emotional shocks) in a family context (through parents, children) that force internal emotional reflection and whose purpose is to change their sense of security, based on external conditions (social position, career), for an internal emotional basis where responsibility for their lives, their self-image, their security prevail, even if environmental conditions change.

Susana

Hi Geeta,

Quote3. Why is Co-operation or Resistance with Evolutionary necessity the only 2 choices a Soul can make?

Cooperation or Resistance with Evolutionary necessity are Laws of Nature and according to the laws, the evolution of our Soul is dependent on us working through all our Desires until the only Desire left is to return to Source.
When we reach a point of stagnation where no growth occurs, the Natural Law of Survival comes into play so as to ensure our survival, thereby igniting the Law of Involution whereby our Soul is pushed to change and evolve. There is an Evolutionary necessity that is created.  This natural Law by which we are governed presents our Soul with only 2 choices, either to Cooperate with Evolutionary necessity in accepting the inevitable and doing what we know is necessary. When our Soul chooses to cooperate we are empowered because we are taking the responsibility for our Evolution into our own hands.

The other choice is to take a stance of Resistance whereby our Soul wants to control what cannot be controlled. Resistance goes against the Law of Evolution, so life will give our Soul chances to wake up and see the truth of the inner reality. If our Soul still chooses to resist, the Law of Evolution is left with no choice but to ignite a cataclysm in our life to push us toward our evolution.

QuotePluto Questions:
Q 1. What is the Evolutionary theme of Soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one?

This Soul has been learning how to establish their individuality, authority and the way to integrate their own philosophy on society, learning how society works thereby learning, related lessons in discipline, self-determination, learning about their own values, beliefs, desires, and needs, and to link their individual purpose to a social purpose, thereby learning lessons in social and emotional maturity.

Yes to everything except for philosophy. That corresponds to the 9th house. But the main point you are making is of course true. The core of it is the archetype of self-responsibility which isn't necessarily about one's persnal values, beliefs or outlook on life.

Many of these souls have desired positions of power and social status, and have learned how to manipulate the system to get to the top, believing that the ends justify the means. They needed to be in control of their position within society rather than allowing society to control them. But they learned the lesson of power and powerlessness when faced with a corrupt, unjust and manipulative society and succumbed by operating the same way, justifying by claiming "this is the way it works", thereby avoiding personal responsibility.
Abusing power in lifetimes, coming back carrying an inherent sense of guilt, thereby feeling like they don't deserve anything in the current life, feeling resigned to their lot in life, thereby attempting to "atone for prior sins". Feeling frustrated because they don't understand why they feel this way in the current life. Being heavily judgemental towards others. Some are blocked by society from fulfilling their goals, others block themselves...close their own doors. This condition enforces reflection through which the Soul can either become self-aware of the inner motivations, or the reflection can lead to depression and a sense of futility, lack of power and control of their life. Guilt can occur within them through their awareness of their failure to utilize their potential, or they project the guilt outward when they blame their condition on society as a whole or on others, rather than recognizing the truth that the responsibility for such conditions is their own.
Other souls master lessons of self-determination, self-discipline, and self-responsibility and the way that society operates to realize ambition and meaningful social positions. If these lessons have been learned before, some of these souls can play large or small roles in society, with little effort, impacting lives in a transformative way. Now they will feel contempt and dislike for those who operate in devious ways to achieve their goals and they confront and expose them to their motivations, thereby creating a space to influence others to higher conduct.
Through these souls, archetypically we come face to face with our mortality and the awareness that we have a time span within which to fulfill our destiny. This awareness enforces lessons of social and emotional maturity..."grow up and get on with it".
Some of these souls have switched gender because a state of imbalance had been reached and further evolution could not happen through the earlier gender, the gender was switched to promote balance and further growth. This hormonal shift can create emotional moods and feelings that the soul cannot relate to or control. The Evolutionary need is to become aware of the triggers rather than becoming a victim to them...self-knowledge grows.

Excellent work.

Quote
Q 2. What is the Evolutionary intent of the current life as signified by the Pluto Polarity Point in the 4th House?

The Evolutionary intent of the Soul in its current life as signified by the Pluto Polarity in the 4th House is to develop internal security, a sense of individuality that is rooted in their own value systems, and sense of personal fulfillment that is not tied in any manner to a social position or a need to succeed in the external world...work/career.
They are also learning lessons of the heart and emotions, the emotional lessons being learned in family situations...one or both parents, the marriage partner or children, or both.
A sense of completion within themselves as they harness lessons of the head and the heart.

Great work. You absolutely got the essence of it. To clarify, we can definitely have Pluto in the 10th house souls that are very emotional. Some of these souls might be learning lessons of actually taking resopsibility for their own emotions and not expressing them in inappropriate ways. So the 4th house polarity here would reflect tending to core emotional needs that were otherwise unaddressed: going backwards in order to go forwards. This in turn allows the soul to evolve and get on with their life. Example of that might be someone who keeps on getting fired from their job because they throw a tantrum whenever their boss yells at them: inability to accept critisism due to repressed emotions and a deeply internalized sense of being "wrong". But this isn't a lack of emotionality, it's a lack of self-awareness/ maturity around them.

Excellent work Geeta! Thank you for your efforts.

Hi Susana,

Quote1. The theme of soul growth in Pluto in the 10th house or in Capricorn has to do with the development and definition of your individuality of that soul through its position or social function in the "extended family", country or culture.
For this to happen, these individuals are learning lessons related to the current social dynamics, about taking responsibility for their actions, about power versus social submission, about self-determination and self-discipline.
This learning takes place through cycles where, at times, individuals may not understand or accept social limits or rules or try to control the system in their favor by manipulating and using people, leading to abuse of power as a way of controlling society. They can bring an intense feeling of guilt associated with abuses of power in previous lives, as well as showing an attitude of resignation in the face of the difficulties they face, which is a means of punishment and compensation for the way they acted in the past. This guilt is often reinforced by parental behavior in childhood (too much rigidity and authoritarianism, absence of parental responsibility).
At other times, there are cycles where they can learn these lessons through intense reflection that leads to an awareness of how and why they are in these circumstances. In a positive way, they change the focus of the responsibilities of the "others" (external) to the own (internal) creating the means to develop a more socially mature individuality that allows them to exercise their social function with less effort and with an impact positive and transformative.

Excellent, really well said.

Quote2. The evolutionary intention regarding the polarity point of Pluto in Cancer and house 4, are learnings related to security, identity and personal fulfillment, whether connected or not to the need for success and social position. There will also be learning at an emotional level that can be translated into dynamics (ex: emotional shocks) in a family context (through parents, children) that force internal emotional reflection and whose purpose is to change their sense of security, based on external conditions (social position, career), for an internal emotional basis where responsibility for their lives, their self-image, their security prevail, even if environmental conditions change.

I want to offer one point which is wherever we have Pluto there is in fact a movement from external reference to internal reference. It's not just a 10th house/ 4th house thing. Pluto tendency is to get stuck on object focus, which can be applied to all of the 12 houses.

Excellent work Susana! You understand the essence of Pluto and it's polarity point very well.

Hi everyone!

We are ready today to start with our next step.
Before we add Pluto and the south node together, I'd like us to spend some time on just the nodes so that we don't add too many astrological archetypes at once for those who are completely new. After this step we'll work with Pluto and the south node together.

I'd like everyone to read the Pluto in the 2nd house chapter to get a good sense of the 2nd house archetype.
Then please read the Pluto in the 8th house chapter to get a good sense of the 8th house archetype.

We will be placing the nodes in the 2nd and 8th houses. So you'll need to discern that as you read these chapters: that we are not working with Pluto, but with the nodes.

Assignment:
1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

I'm hoping that as we do this exercise we will remember that the identity, by itself, has no meaning. Each human life is the result of the indiivdual evolutionary and karmic dynamics within the soul that it brings into this human life. Nothing exists on its own, in a vacuum, seperate from the soul. So this step will just be about understanding these archetypes from a nodal point of view.

Also, no need to be exhaustive, as theoretically we can make endless lists of 2nd house and 8th house attributes. I'm looking for an undersatnding of what kind of basic identity structure is implied when we place the nodes in these houses. Next week we will add Pluto and an evolutionary stage.

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Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 13, 2020, 12:47 PM
Hi Geeta,

quote]Pluto Questions:
Q 1. What is the Evolutionary theme of Soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one?

This Soul has been learning how to establish their individuality, authority and the way to integrate their own philosophy on society, learning how society works thereby learning, related lessons in discipline, self-determination, learning about their own values, beliefs, desires, and needs, and to link their individual purpose to a social purpose, thereby learning lessons in social and emotional maturity.

Yes to everything except for philosophy. That corresponds to the 9th house. But the main point you are making is of course true. The core of it is the archetype of self-responsibility which isn't necessarily about one's persnal values, beliefs or outlook on life.

Excellent work.

Great work. You absolutely got the essence of it. To clarify, we can definitely have Pluto in the 10th house souls that are very emotional. Some of these souls might be learning lessons of actually taking resopsibility for their own emotions and not expressing them in inappropriate ways. So the 4th house polarity here would reflect tending to core emotional needs that were otherwise unaddressed: going backwards in order to go forwards. This in turn allows the soul to evolve and get on with their life. Example of that might be someone who keeps on getting fired from their job because they throw a tantrum whenever their boss yells at them: inability to accept critisism due to repressed emotions and a deeply internalized sense of being "wrong". But this isn't a lack of emotionality, it's a lack of self-awareness/ maturity around them.

Excellent work Geeta! Thank you for your efforts.
[/quote]

Hi Ari,
Thank you for the finer nuances you brought to my awareness. I love the "going backwards to go forwards"..yes we can always go back to the drawing board :)

Hi Ari,

I haven't re-read the Pluto book chapters that you previously recommended because I thought that maybe I should try to write just basing on my own experience (I'm a second house pluto). I'm not sure if that's indeed correct, though, because of course everyone is very different, and maybe my description doesn't apply in a more general way. But let's see...  :)

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 13, 2020, 02:38 PM
1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

Being the second house a house connected to the concept of oneself personal possessions, when someone has this placement we can state that this is about someone that it's coming from a life in which the idea of "feeling secure" in any given situation was very important to them, in a general way.  The ideia of possessing could manifest for example through tendencies that the native could have of  "categorizing" the people they interact in life as correct or incorrect based in their own internal criteria, as if "putting people in a little box".

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 13, 2020, 02:38 PM
2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

One of the current lessons of this person would be to develop their ability to trust and to surrender. But to trust not just in the others, but in order of life itself. To learn that in fact nothing can be controlled -  even if we can feel like that, in certain situations. The 2nd house x 8th house is connected to that paradox that may sound "cliche" but actually carries a big true, that it's only when you surrender that you can manage to achieve something. This could apply for example in those cases that a great sense of discouragement is created because we feel like nobody seems to ever fit our expectations. People with 8th house NN are in this process of understanding that the issue of feeling frustrated because others never seem to fit our expectations is actually not caused because of their attitudes, in the first instance, but because of the expectations we created.

~ Julia

My answers for the Pluto 10th house questions:

Pluto questions
1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

Pluto in the 10th house souls have lived lives exploring and solidifying belief systems, philosophies, and higher truths. In this present incarnation there is a desire to learn to now acclimate to a society, existing with outside authority figures (rather than inner knowledge/ 9th house themes). This soul will be learning the effects and implications of duties, responsibilities, limitations, etc. Key themes of boundaries, challenges, determination, obstacles beyond ones' control and a feeling of underlying guilt are parts of learning to live based on sense of societal role and security provided by something outside the self. There is a maturation process unfolding, learning to structure ones' life based on outside expectations and live within an already existing reality structure. The society & gender the soul is born into reflects the specific lessons related to the roles being played out and learned from.

2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The evolutionary intention of the PPP is to come into a sense of inner-security not based on external circumstances or by an outer authority. Creating ones' own validation from within rather than receiving it from the outer society system is the objective of this lifetime. Key Themes around developing intuition, an awareness of the inner child, learning to respond to life based on ones' feelings and needs- not only on a physical reality level but also from a place of emotional nourishment and self security/ inner reality structure.

****
Thank you for the opportunity!
I am learning how to reply & quote, I appreciate your patience as I figure it out ;)
Nicole

Pluto questions for 10th House

Quote1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

The scope of evolution for the Soul has been understanding the Soul's own individuality and authority (individual and collective) in a social context. Understanding how society operates, and how to operate and achieve goals within the greater context of norms, laws, and culture of that society. Understanding social responsibility through both taking leadership roles and manipulating the system and others within the system in order to gain power or get to the top at all costs. This can create dynamics of guilt in later lifetimes. The Soul wants to learn how to be self-determined, disciplined, and aware of timing, as well as learning how to actualize goals and how to make goals that serve and provide value to others. Or, how to use the system to get ahead. This Soul has wanted to learn the whole spectrum of fitting into a social role and having power + authority within society: from being a small scale influencer of the community, to Nixon manipulating and controlling people on a national scale, to Yogananda inspiring on a glocal scale. This Soul may very well have experienced a lifetime as a family man intent upon rising up the corporate ladder or someone who is very passionate about helping her/his community and so runs for the position of mayor.

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The evolutionary intention is to discover who the Soul is outside of his/her social role. To take the identity away from being overly attached to the career, and center it inside the person. To create an inner security that is not dependent on external parameters. To take responsibility for his/her actions + choices, and how these affect his/her own life + the lives of others. In the context of family, accepting his/her children for who they are rather than who the parent wants them to be. There could be all iterations of this parent-child dynamic regarding being accepted for who they are, or not, or not until later in life. There can also occur catastrophes in the form of a loss of some sort, which creates circumstances for the Soul to pause and think about their life, and how they have been operating.

Quote from: Rad on Apr 13, 2020, 06:01 AM
Hi Rebecca,

A new evolutionary cycle simply means that the Soul has had a series of prior lives in which is has been acting upon core desires in a variety of ways that had reached a point of culmination relative to those desires that has then lead to initiating a new evolutionary cycle in which a new core set of desires will be acted upon for it's ongoing evolutionary needs. So, for example, a 4th House Pluto correlates with a new evolutionary cycle in which the Soul will create lifetimes in which a core dynamic of actualizing a state of absolute inner emotional security occurs in a diversity of circumstances that the Soul designs for that core evolutionary intention.

Hi Rad,

Thank you for your reply. I'm still not understanding, where do the other non-angular houses fit into the picture in terms of these evolutionary cycles? Even if Pluto were not in an angular house or sign, would those lifetimes still fit into a larger evolutionary cycle where the core desire, to use your example above, is to develop emotional security?

QuoteDesires of a separating nature are not infinite. They are in fact finite which leads back to the only desire that is infinite: to return to the Source of that which has created everything. It is this natural interaction of the finite desires with the infinite desire that manifests as evolution and involution.

God Bless, Rad

Thanks for clarifying that.

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 13, 2020, 02:38 PM

Assignment #2:
Q1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.
A1. A south node in the 2nd house indicates a familiarity with being secure in a fixed sense of who they are in contrast to the flux of everything else around them. The ego structures here are built upon an identification with a limited set of resources and possessions within which the soul achieves its desire of feeling secure. A south node in the 2nd can indicate what JWG refers to as "a frog in a well of karma", meaning that the soul is so secure in its fixed world that its as if it is down a well, and limited to the small perspective of reality that is seen through the wells opening. So in respect to a resistant attitude towards evolutionary necessity these souls have been very focused on the desire to hold on to existing egocentric structures which allow them to be self-reliant and self-sufficient. Positive gifts they bring are the inner strength and self-reliance which is not built upon possessiveness.

Q2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.
A2.A north node in the 8th house indicates soul-growth by consciously choosing the death and rebirth of every egocentric security structure, and of who they are in relation to the totality of reality at any moment in time. As opposed to the south node in the 2nd, the soul moving towards the north node in the 8th house desires to progressively identify with everything that is it is not, in order to transform personal limitations. That is the path of cooperation with evolutionary necessity towards Source, whereas the path of resistance lies in the desire to fixate on and secure the current ego-structure and to identify with it. Through the confrontations triggered by the opposing desires the soul learns to become self-analytical and can mature into a person that is of transformational service to itself and others by being able to understand the deeper meaning of death and rebirth, of risk and security and how to use the gifts of the 2nd house positively.

I am finding it difficult but gripping to try and translate the archetypes into the nodes.
Best, A

Hi Julia,

Quote1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.
Being the second house a house connected to the concept of oneself personal possessions, when someone has this placement we can state that this is about someone that it's coming from a life in which the idea of "feeling secure" in any given situation was very important to them, in a general way.  The ideia of possessing could manifest for example through tendencies that the native could have of  "categorizing" the people they interact in life as correct or incorrect based in their own internal criteria, as if "putting people in a little box".

Catagorizing as correct or incorrect based on their own internal criteria is not 2nd house, nor is putting people in a box. That all feels more 10th house perhaps with some libra/7th house in there too.

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 13, 2020, 11:38 AM
2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.
One of the current lessons of this person would be to develop their ability to trust and to surrender. But to trust not just in the others, but in order of life itself. To learn that in fact nothing can be controlled -  even if we can feel like that, in certain situations. The 2nd house x 8th house is connected to that paradox that may sound "cliche" but actually carries a big true, that it's only when you surrender that you can manage to achieve something. This could apply for example in those cases that a great sense of discouragement is created because we feel like nobody seems to ever fit our expectations. People with 8th house NN are in this process of understanding that the issue of feeling frustrated because others never seem to fit our expectations is actually not caused because of their attitudes, in the first instance, but because of the expectations we created.

Surrender is 12th house. Expectations are 7th house.

You got the basic idea of both houses, but are mixing some archetypes in there. Definitely read the Pluto chapters.

Hi Nicole,

QuotePluto questions
1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

Pluto in the 10th house souls have lived lives exploring and solidifying belief systems, philosophies, and higher truths. In this present incarnation there is a desire to learn to now acclimate to a society, existing with outside authority figures (rather than inner knowledge/ 9th house themes). This soul will be learning the effects and implications of duties, responsibilities, limitations, etc. Key themes of boundaries, challenges, determination, obstacles beyond ones' control and a feeling of underlying guilt are parts of learning to live based on sense of societal role and security provided by something outside the self. There is a maturation process unfolding, learning to structure ones' life based on outside expectations and live within an already existing reality structure. The society & gender the soul is born into reflects the specific lessons related to the roles being played out and learned from.

It's not entirely accurate to think of the 10th house in terms of the 9th house. Of course they are sequentially connected, but the 10th house Pluto doesn't necessarily mean that they have lived lives exploring 9th house type things before this one (belief systems, philosophies, higher truths). This would be true if Pluto was in the 9th house. Everything else is right on.

Quote
2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The evolutionary intention of the PPP is to come into a sense of inner-security not based on external circumstances or by an outer authority. Creating ones' own validation from within rather than receiving it from the outer society system is the objective of this lifetime. Key Themes around developing intuition, an awareness of the inner child, learning to respond to life based on ones' feelings and needs- not only on a physical reality level but also from a place of emotional nourishment and self security/ inner reality structure.

Excellent, well said. One correction, intuition is not 4th house. Emotions, safety, care, containers for development and growth, self-intimacy, family, roots, how we care and tend for what needs caring are 4th house. Intuition specifically relates to one's non-rational, right brain sensing of phenomenal reality: Sag/Jupiter/9th house.

Quote
Thank you for the opportunity!
I am learning how to reply & quote, I appreciate your patience as I figure it out Wink
Nicole

This might help... https://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,1644.msg74250.html#msg74250
Excellent work Nicole! I feel you get the core of what Pluto and the ppp symbolize. Thank you for your efforts.

Hi Rebecca,

Quote1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

The scope of evolution for the Soul has been understanding the Soul's own individuality and authority (individual and collective) in a social context. Understanding how society operates, and how to operate and achieve goals within the greater context of norms, laws, and culture of that society. Understanding social responsibility through both taking leadership roles and manipulating the system and others within the system in order to gain power or get to the top at all costs. This can create dynamics of guilt in later lifetimes. The Soul wants to learn how to be self-determined, disciplined, and aware of timing, as well as learning how to actualize goals and how to make goals that serve and provide value to others. Or, how to use the system to get ahead. This Soul has wanted to learn the whole spectrum of fitting into a social role and having power + authority within society: from being a small scale influencer of the community, to Nixon manipulating and controlling people on a national scale, to Yogananda inspiring on a glocal scale. This Soul may very well have experienced a lifetime as a family man intent upon rising up the corporate ladder or someone who is very passionate about helping her/his community and so runs for the position of mayor.

Great, all true possibilities for this signature.

Quote2. What is the evolutionary intention of the current life as signified by the Pluto polarity point in the 4th house?

The evolutionary intention is to discover who the Soul is outside of his/her social role. To take the identity away from being overly attached to the career, and center it inside the person. To create an inner security that is not dependent on external parameters. To take responsibility for his/her actions + choices, and how these affect his/her own life + the lives of others. In the context of family, accepting his/her children for who they are rather than who the parent wants them to be. There could be all iterations of this parent-child dynamic regarding being accepted for who they are, or not, or not until later in life. There can also occur catastrophes in the form of a loss of some sort, which creates circumstances for the Soul to pause and think about their life, and how they have been operating.

Excellent. You get the essence of Pluto and it's polarity point. Remember that it's not always about shifting focus away from career or social role. The external focus on the 10th house Pluto can manifest in all kind of spheres. Can be a single and unemplyed person with no family for example. Thank you for your work Rebecca!

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 03, 2020, 11:48 AM
1. What is the evolutionary theme of soul growth this soul has been playing out in all lives relevant to this one? Consider that the evolutionary journey of the soul implies cycles upon cycles of change. Manifesting a phase of life experience, setting up shop there, learning and growing from it and eventually needing to dismantle it and move on to the next.

Pluto in the 10th House or Capricorn

The Soul is learning the evolutionary lesson of how to establish their individuality and authority in a socially responsibly way. 10th House Pluto Souls naturally gravitate to Being an Authority and in Control. 10th House Pluto Souls define their individuality through their social function by establishing norms, expectations and judgements about "how things ARE;" these Souls incarnate already being comfortable as being "the definer" of the status quo. In extreme or distorted expression, 10th house Pluto Souls don't really giving two "ducks" about alternative ways in which structure could or should be defined. They can be cruel or callus and unforgiving to variance from what they have deemed as the Establishment norm. This represents a sense of security for the Soul: DEFINED STRUCTURE.
The rigidity of this expression, leads the Soul to be continually disillusioned and thrown back upon itself, as Society, the Others, are continually expressing themselves in dynamic and chaotic, and unexpected ways that exceed the defined structure of the 10th House Pluto Soul.
Pluto in the 10th house indicates that a new evolutionary cycle is commencing. Meaning the Soul is embarking on uncharted territory, and that is extremely threatening to the 10th House Pluto Soul, who rests its sense of security on what is Known; their DEFINED STRUCTURE.

This dissidence causes the Soul in many times of their lives, a strong sense of guilt and depression, and impotence. It's these "dark nights of the Soul" in which the Soul finds the strength to accept the reality that the defined structures and boundaries and causes and effects, and judgements are not working, all of the DEFINED STRUCTURES are crumbling and falling apart.  

Pluto Polarity Point in the 4th House or Cancer

The Soul's journey is that of becoming fluid, and dynamic like Water; for as water flows, it purifies. The Soul's intention is to Allow this formlessness to catalyst and nurture the Inner emotional structure of the Soul. This is a dynamic (vs static) process; an inner dialogue with the Soul, and through this deep, dynamic, didactic process  comes Emotional Maturation. The Intention of the 4th house PPP is REGENERATIVE SUSTAINABILITY. A constantly changing, dynamic and fluid process of continual evolution, that is regeneratively sustainable, and sentient and responsible.  The Soul takes responsibility for their lives, as well as socially responsible for the affects of their actions on society and culture. This is realized through responsible social function or career as well as emotional maturation.  

~ on a sidebar, this exercise provoked a question for me. What can we say, if Pluto is opposite the ruler of it's house placement? In this exercise, Pluto in the 10th opposite it's ruler, Saturn in the 4th, what can we say about this placement.
Thank you.

Hi Akim,

QuoteQ1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

A1. A south node in the 2nd house indicates a familiarity with being secure in a fixed sense of who they are in contrast to the flux of everything else around them. The ego structures here are built upon an identification with a limited set of resources and possessions within which the soul achieves its desire of feeling secure. A south node in the 2nd can indicate what JWG refers to as "a frog in a well of karma", meaning that the soul is so secure in its fixed world that its as if it is down a well, and limited to the small perspective of reality that is seen through the wells opening. So in respect to a resistant attitude towards evolutionary necessity these souls have been very focused on the desire to hold on to existing egocentric structures which allow them to be self-reliant and self-sufficient. Positive gifts they bring are the inner strength and self-reliance which is not built upon possessiveness.

\

Good job Akim, you grasp the archetype well. I'll help you with translating it to the nodes. We are looking at a personality structure, not a desire nature. Desire implies a predominately unconscious motive that moves a soul into each life. Personality structure literally says "this is WHO they have been." So I would add that in general terms this soul has lived lives where they have gotten to know themselves from within, spending a lot of time alone. Refining their values, developing a strong survival instinct etc. They may have a lot of gifts from the past (south node) around being generally resourceful, good with using their hands. They might have a strong self-pleasure/sexual nature and will have their set way (2nd house) of getting their core biological/survival needs met.

QuoteQ2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.
A2.A north node in the 8th house indicates soul-growth by consciously choosing the death and rebirth of every egocentric security structure, and of who they are in relation to the totality of reality at any moment in time. As opposed to the south node in the 2nd, the soul moving towards the north node in the 8th house desires to progressively identify with everything that is it is not, in order to transform personal limitations. That is the path of cooperation with evolutionary necessity towards Source, whereas the path of resistance lies in the desire to fixate on and secure the current ego-structure and to identify with it. Through the confrontations triggered by the opposing desires the soul learns to become self-analytical and can mature into a person that is of transformational service to itself and others by being able to understand the deeper meaning of death and rebirth, of risk and security and how to use the gifts of the 2nd house positively.

Excellent, once again you grasp the archetype. For the north node we are then looking at a soul learning to let go, to embrace confrontation, connect with vulnerability and learn to unite with others in order to grow and evolve beyond their own potential stagnation. This implies a progressive movement to become psychologically oriented and to begin to ask about the "why" of things as opposed to just accepting things as they are not looking deeper.
Consider that 2nd house is somatic and 8th house is psychological. So this soul is shifting from a predominately somatic orientation to a psychological one. This will mean opening up the doors to a world of experience, relationship, business, desire, confrontations, limitations, lessons around trust etc that they can't grow from by way of trying to remain stable and keep everything the same. There's a need to move into greater depth, to evolve, becuase the simple world of caterpillar won't last forever.

Thank you for your work and efforts Akim!

Hi Ari,

Yeah, I thought things could get mixed. I tend to mix things very much, still, even more when it's about an aspect I have myself. If you don't mind about the members posting more than once in this practice thread, I'll write again, in another message.  

But first, I would like to ask you if in your opinion even the part that I wrote saying that one of the lessons would be "to learn that it's actually when we stop to control, that things start working" is indeed incorrect. It is?  Because I always thought it was the major lesson of Scorpio.

The part I wrote saying that they would have criteria of what is correct or wrong based on their own opinion was also a try to express that famous term that JWG says about the frog in the well...

My thanks for this thread and this opportunity. It's already being of great value and learning to me.  ;)

~ Julia

Thank you Ari for the clarifications on my responses to the 10th house Pluto questions.

I didn't know that the soul does not move through houses somewhat sequentially! Thank you for correcting my perspective, it's huge to now know that.

And I see now that intuition is connected more so to Sagittarius energy. I realize that I relate my intuition to my inner child, but I understand what you're saying and appreciate that correction too.

Enjoying this practicing so much,
Nicole

1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

A 2nd house emotional ego of the past is concerned with survival and rootedness in self reliance on all levels.  Taurus, 2nd house, is the first Earth sign, and so correlates to giving meaning to what we value, in order to survive on Earth. What resources do we need to flourish on Earth? Our senses will tell us this and is heightened in Taurus. The random action and experience of the 1st house Aries is now consolidated into Taurus 2nd house, where the seed of identity is planted in the soil, and must be cultivated with water, sunlight, etc. This is an insular yin archetype, and so can correlate to the immediate emotional past of living on one's own, modestly and simply, able to cultivate the resources it needs for survival.  The emotional ego is comfortable here on its own in its own little world. The problem though is that one can only know itself so much, through a narrow vantage point of such isolation and survival on its own, which Jeffrey coined "the frog in the well." The frog is surviving on its own in that well and thinks it now understands the entire universe by its narrow view of the sky from the well.  The soul may not feel it necessary to jump out of the well for a wider view of itself and the universe, or may have a fear or resistance to merging with another's resources, and may sit there too long on its own. The 2nd house is fixed Earth, and so can correlate to a stubbornness to jump out of its own well for a wider view.

2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

The 8th house Scorpio correlates to merging with others on a deep level in order to metamorphis any limitations from the past preventing evolution.  Scorpio is the ultimate confrontation between ego and soul, where the ego will be forced to jump out of its own well in order to gain a wider understanding of itself and the universe, if emotional security patterns have become too isolated or insular in the 2nd house.  By emotional security rugs being pulled out from under the soul (2nd house resources of any kind), the north node ego will come to understand empowerment by merging with others, asking for help unable to just survive on its own. The 8th house north node will then gain a wider understanding of itself through the power of two, not just one. Trust and intimacy issues can also be confronted via the north node as the 8th house correlates to abandonment, loss, and betrayals of trust.  A south node in 2nd house may feel "safer" on its own, unable to trust or merge.  The natural expression of the north node in the 8th house correlates to a soul who has developed complete self reliance in the 2nd house, and now is ready to merge its resources and self with another on a deep level in order to use that power of two for the empowerment of themselves and others, and a much wider view and experience of themselves as a result.

North Node 2nd house South Node 8th house questions

Assignment:
1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

SN 2nd House is conditioned to be self-sufficient, self-preserving, self-sustaining. The reference point will be one of taking care of ones' own needs and having difficulty in perhaps asking for help or admitting that it "˜doesn't know'. There may be patterns of over-identifying with ones possessions, possibly having a challenging time feeling that they have/are enough. Strong procreative, sensual motivations that have potential to be manipulative or distorted into a sense of self-worth. A tendency to see things from a limited perspective (frog in the well, as JWG spoke of), and so will require honoring other perspectives/ working with others to learn & evolve.

2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

NN 8th House is learning to know itself in relying on another/ connection/ merging with another/others to dissolve the limitations of being strictly self-sufficient. This involves navigation of power dynamics, boundaries, and right use of merging energies involving intimacy in all forms- psychologically, sexually, financially, energetically. The soul is learning more about the self in experiencing interconnection, interdependence, self-reliance vs. dependency on another, cultivating deep bonds, etc.

Hi Rebecca,

Thank you for your reply. I'm still not understanding, where do the other non-angular houses fit into the picture in terms of these evolutionary cycles?

*************

The other non-angular houses are drawn upon by the Soul to actualize in a variety of ways, as defined by those non-angular archetypes, the essence of what the new evolutionary cycles are about.

***************

Even if Pluto were not in an angular house or sign, would those lifetimes still fit into a larger evolutionary cycle where the core desire, to use your example above, is to develop emotional security?

*********

Yes. So continuing with the 4th House Pluto example the Soul may have chosen to create an egocentric structure to actualize that core theme of inner emotional security through cosmological investigations: this would be symbolized by a S.Node in the 9th. So in the next life after that, for example, the Soul could have a 9th House Pluto relative the new cycle started in the previous life, and the S.Node could be in the 4th House. Or the S.Node could be in Cancer in some house, or the S.Node could be conjunct the Moon is some sign/ house. These are just some examples because when a new cycle is set in motion by the Soul it takes more than one life to actualize it. As a result, there are so many different ways, and reason, causes, of how the Soul goes about that that are then symbolized in the various ea signatures in a birth chart.

If you have not yet read JWG's book called the Structure Of The Soul you may wish to consider doing that in order to understand more deeply this question.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Ari !

Before posting my practice work, can I ask you 2 questions if it is available? thank you!ðŸ'š

1、What made me enjoy EA is the capacity of simply focusing upon the essence of archetype and my experience which largely open and empower my self knowledge. So if you wish, can you give some comments of how to completely understand a archetype? to me there are always have some confusion I couldn't get it.

2、For example,there are some points I couldn't understand between Taurus and Scorpio. The first is money, if put the SN of one chart in 2nd house and another in 8th house, let's say both of them are quite obsessed with money or other resources, very good at manipulating others or systems to get money and power.but I don't know what is the key point (or difference) of the essence of Taurus and Scorpio archetypes, I lose the way.The second question is sex, both of them are possible to use sex as a mean to acquire other people's wealth or resources.I used to see some charts of sexual predator, the victim of sexual abuse, sex workers, yes, without surprising, they have packed 2/8 house signatures. I remember Jeffrey has said in one case (SN in 8th house) that the person should empowered herself which is the way out for her, but in another case with SN in 2th house, he gave the same suggestion.Once again, I lost my way. is it means that Taurus archetype represents self-empower and Scorpio symbolize empowered by others? but Scorpio corresponds to our psychological essence.

Thank youðŸ'–, Chengting

Hi Chocolate Astrologer,

QuotePluto in the 10th House or Capricorn

The Soul is learning the evolutionary lesson of how to establish their individuality and authority in a socially responsibly way. 10th House Pluto Souls naturally gravitate to Being an Authority and in Control. 10th House Pluto Souls define their individuality through their social function by establishing norms, expectations and judgements about "how things ARE;" these Souls incarnate already being comfortable as being "the definer" of the status quo. In extreme or distorted expression, 10th house Pluto Souls don't really giving two "ducks" about alternative ways in which structure could or should be defined. They can be cruel or callus and unforgiving to variance from what they have deemed as the Establishment norm. This represents a sense of security for the Soul:

All true though not all souls withi Pluto in the 10th gravitate to being an authority and in control. That implies an inner stance of empowerment and entitlement. The very opposite can be true as well.

QuoteDEFINED STRUCTURE.
The rigidity of this expression, leads the Soul to be continually disillusioned and thrown back upon itself, as Society, the Others, are continually expressing themselves in dynamic and chaotic, and unexpected ways that exceed the defined structure of the 10th House Pluto Soul.
Pluto in the 10th house indicates that a new evolutionary cycle is commencing.
Meaning the Soul is embarking on uncharted territory, and that is extremely threatening to the 10th House Pluto Soul, who rests its sense of security on what is Known; their DEFINED STRUCTURE.

This dissidence causes the Soul in many times of their lives, a strong sense of guilt and depression, and impotence. It's these "dark nights of the Soul" in which the Soul finds the strength to accept the reality that the defined structures and boundaries and causes and effects, and judgements are not working, all of the DEFINED STRUCTURES are crumbling and falling apart. 

Great work.

Pluto Polarity Point in the 4th House or Cancer

QuoteThe Soul's journey is that of becoming fluid, and dynamic like Water; for as water flows, it purifies. The Soul's intention is to Allow this formlessness to catalyst and nurture the Inner emotional structure of the Soul. This is a dynamic (vs static) process; an inner dialogue with the Soul, and through this deep, dynamic, didactic process  comes Emotional Maturation. The Intention of the 4th house PPP is REGENERATIVE SUSTAINABILITY. A constantly changing, dynamic and fluid process of continual evolution, that is regeneratively sustainable, and sentient and responsible.  The Soul takes responsibility for their lives, as well as socially responsible for the affects of their actions on society and culture. This is realized through responsible social function or career as well as emotional maturation. 

It's not about surrendering to the formless, it is about forming a relationship to one's inner emotional reality and often that means turning within, developing an attitude of care, changing one's life as a result of becoming inwardly focused. If Pisces were involved lets say, IE Pluto in Virgo in the 10th with the PPP Pisces in the 4th, then the notion of formlessness would be relevant. Regenerative sustainability doesn't fit the archetype of the 4th house either but I undersand what you were wanting to imply.

The key of the PPP is to develop self-intimacy as a basis to know oneself beyond the fixation on the external/ who it should be/ constant unproccessed guilt or shame/ need to be praised/ fixation on successful or external approval/ fear of failure etc. The 4th house says, as you pointed out, to slow down and go within. This catalyzes evolution because it allows what comes to come and what is meant to go to go. Without fixation, the soul can be secure within its own self and follow the path of evolution it is here to follow.

Quote~ on a sidebar, this exercise provoked a question for me. What can we say, if Pluto is opposite the ruler of it's house placement? In this exercise, Pluto in the 10th opposite it's ruler, Saturn in the 4th, what can we say about this placement.
Thank you.

Then there would be a tension within this soul between it's evolutionary lessons around work, responsibility, lessons of success failure etc and the responsibility to build a structural reality that is emotional stable and healthy (saturn in 4th). This implies an evolutionary lesson of course to evolve and grow relative to that Saturn. Depending on whether its a gibbous opposition, full phase etc and the rest of the chart - this could reflect all kinds of possibilities both in terms of the soul's inner emotional reality as well as life circumstance as well as what the specific evolutionary requirements are.

In general, totally fine to ask these questions, but better to ask them on the main forum.
Great work Choclate Astrologer! Thank you for your participation and efforts.

Hi Julia,

QuoteYeah, I thought things could get mixed. I tend to mix things very much, still, even more when it's about an aspect I have myself. If you don't mind about the members posting more than once in this practice thread, I'll write again, in another message. 

Of course, if you want to/ feel it would be of benefit to you.

QuoteBut first, I would like to ask you if in your opinion even the part that I wrote saying that one of the lessons would be "to learn that it's actually when we stop to control, that things start working" is indeed incorrect. It is?  Because I always thought it was the major lesson of Scorpio.

To me, we'd have to clarify what is meant by "things start working". Here's how I'd personally think of it. When we let go of control we allow evolutionary will to take over. This means that what is meant to come will come and what is meant to go will go. We realize that our attachments obscure our perception of reality. With no attachment we are free to experience what comes and goes because our security is not dependent upon that. So this might mean loosing something or someone we otherwise were trying to posess etc.

Hi Linda,

Quote1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

A 2nd house emotional ego of the past is concerned with survival and rootedness in self reliance on all levels.  Taurus, 2nd house, is the first Earth sign, and so correlates to giving meaning to what we value, in order to survive on Earth. What resources do we need to flourish on Earth? Our senses will tell us this and is heightened in Taurus. The random action and experience of the 1st house Aries is now consolidated into Taurus 2nd house, where the seed of identity is planted in the soil, and must be cultivated with water, sunlight, etc. This is an insular yin archetype, and so can correlate to the immediate emotional past of living on one's own, modestly and simply, able to cultivate the resources it needs for survival.  The emotional ego is comfortable here on its own in its own little world. The problem though is that one can only know itself so much, through a narrow vantage point of such isolation and survival on its own, which Jeffrey coined "the frog in the well." The frog is surviving on its own in that well and thinks it now understands the entire universe by its narrow view of the sky from the well.  The soul may not feel it necessary to jump out of the well for a wider view of itself and the universe, or may have a fear or resistance to merging with another's resources, and may sit there too long on its own. The 2nd house is fixed Earth, and so can correlate to a stubbornness to jump out of its own well for a wider view.

Excellent. I wouldn't bring in 1st house/Aries as it can give the impression that this soul is evolving FROM that archetype. I imagine you spoke it just as a way to describe the nature of the 2nd house archetype as one of consolidation, but I want to make it clear for those who are new to this work that this soul is not coming from the first house.

2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

Quote
The 8th house Scorpio correlates to merging with others on a deep level in order to metamorphis any limitations from the past preventing evolution.  Scorpio is the ultimate confrontation between ego and soul, where the ego will be forced to jump out of its own well in order to gain a wider understanding of itself and the universe, if emotional security patterns have become too isolated or insular in the 2nd house.  By emotional security rugs being pulled out from under the soul (2nd house resources of any kind), the north node ego will come to understand empowerment by merging with others, asking for help unable to just survive on its own. The 8th house north node will then gain a wider understanding of itself through the power of two, not just one. Trust and intimacy issues can also be confronted via the north node as the 8th house correlates to abandonment, loss, and betrayals of trust.  A south node in 2nd house may feel "safer" on its own, unable to trust or merge.  The natural expression of the north node in the 8th house correlates to a soul who has developed complete self reliance in the 2nd house, and now is ready to merge its resources and self with another on a deep level in order to use that power of two for the empowerment of themselves and others, and a much wider view and experience of themselves as a result.

Excellent, all really well said. To clarify, "the power of two" isn't necessarily an intimate relationship/partnership - it can be a business, or it can be all kinds of ways in which a soul will merge with another, or anything outside of itself, and through such merging letting go of it's own posessiveness and self-preservation (2nd house). These can be short lived experiences or long term experiences. As per all things 8th house - it all comes and goes, so it can manifest in all kinds of possible ways for all possible durations.

Hi Nicole,

Assignment:
1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

QuoteSN 2nd House is conditioned to be self-sufficient, self-preserving, self-sustaining. The reference point will be one of taking care of ones' own needs and having difficulty in perhaps asking for help or admitting that it "˜doesn't know'.

If say Sagittarius is in the 2nd house then it would have difficulty admiting "it doesn't know". Otherwise the general stubbornness and orientation to do it on ones own is there, but knowledge itself is a specific archetype.

QuoteThere may be patterns of over-identifying with ones possessions, possibly having a challenging time feeling that they have/are enough. Strong procreative, sensual motivations that have potential to be manipulative or distorted into a sense of self-worth. A tendency to see things from a limited perspective (frog in the well, as JWG spoke of), and so will require honoring other perspectives/ working with others to learn & evolve.

Excellent, and that's good you brought in the issue of self worth. For many souls 2nd house south node might mean they come into this would with unresolved karma around self-esteem. This could be a soul who doesn't really put effort into doing what they need to do for themself, will just get work with what is and not ever make any changes. Another example of the "frog in the well" would be laziness, and not putting effort into anything which means taking for granted what one has.

The manipulation of sensual motivations to create a sense of self-worth, as well as being manipulated by others, would be true if Scorpio or Pluto were in the 2nd house.

Quote
2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

NN 8th House is learning to know itself in relying on another/ connection/ merging with another/others to dissolve the limitations of being strictly self-sufficient. This involves navigation of power dynamics, boundaries, and right use of merging energies involving intimacy in all forms- psychologically, sexually, financially, energetically. The soul is learning more about the self in experiencing interconnection, interdependence, self-reliance vs. dependency on another, cultivating deep bonds, etc.

Excellent, all well said!

Hi Ari,

Thanks for the clarification on 1) regarding the 2nd house soul not necessarily immediately coming from the 1st house...yes I did use that just to compare how 2nd house is different from the first as this really helped me when first starting out to see the progression of the archetypes around the circle. But yes I understand our example soul did not immediately come from 1st house. 2) Yes power of two, I understand what you're saying.
This practice is so good for me, thank you!

Linda

Hi Ari, hi everyone!
Thank you you again Ari for your time and patience for helping and enlightening us on the path of evolutionary astrology.

Quote
1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

Souls born with a South Node in the 2nd house, are generally familiar with identifying their own resources to sustain themselves. They developed self reliance and self-sufficiency being well rooted, grounded in the physical realm, but having a limited vision related about life which may degenerate into stagnation. Most of them believe that physical security brings emotional security. They know how to withdraw into themselves in order to survive and to explore their inner values.

Quote
2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

North Node represents the evolutionary trajectory and for souls with North Node in the 8th house. Inner and outer confrontations will reveal their limitations and the vulnerabilities of their value systems. Opening to others emotionally, communication, intimacy, sharing and change rather than living in isolation, will create potential to evolutionary growth, but it requires willingness to transform and move out from their personal limitations.They will learn to unite, consciously their resources, values and lives with others, on an emotional basis.

Sunflower

Assignment:
1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

The SN in the 2nd house indicates that the ego structure in the prior lives of these individuals is familiar with consciously focusing on identifying what is needed, and what they need to do to secure the resources they believe they need to sustain their lives.  How they define their needs and where to find the resources (internal vs external sources) to meet those needs will depend upon Pluto and the souls evolutionary state.  Their default sense of security depends on getting their self-defined needs met and having a resource to meet those needs regardless of whether they identify that need as material,  mental, emotional or spiritual.

This is an ego/personality structure has been and is on the path of learning self-reliance rather than other reliance.  They are the frog learning how to get out of the well of limited and narrow perceptions and self-definitions. 

The Ego/self-image is conscious of what they think they need and what they need to do to get those needs met to feel secure.  They will be on a trajectory of learning to move from reliance on the external world to self-reliance in obtaining what is necessary to sustain themselves.   There will be a fixed and stubborn perspective on life, their value system and what is needed to be comfortable.  Once comfort is attained, they may tend to remain in place and resist moving out of the comfort zone either physically, mentally or emotionally and they may stay stuck in a limited view of what their needs are and what/where resources may be available.  This degree of narrow focus (frog in the well) will depend upon the sign of the SN and their evolutionary state. In the herd state the ego will focus on material values as the resource to define and meet needs (physical security, emotional security), in the individuated state the ego will focus on themselves as the resource (self-definition, skills, talents, self-sustainment), and in the spiritual state the ego will focus on the Source as the resource (rituals, paths) to define and meet needs.

   The state of limitation will apply to all 2nd house SN souls, regardless of evolutionary state. The ego will experience confrontations with their own limitations to force them from their limited POV to see their orientation to reality, resources, personal values and relationships from a larger perspective.  They can learn a new way of relating to themselves, the world about them, and people in their world.  Expect this ego to attract people and situations to themselves in order to discover their personal limitations. 


2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

The NN in the 8th is about the ego learning how to let go of old narrow-minded ideas, self-centered values, and destructive manipulative relationships in meeting their needs to embracing, opening up and being receptive to other people and POV's.    They will be learning that they can unite with others without becoming dependent and/or manipulative of others and their resources.   Merging with others in this way can transform and widen their perspectives, and transform personal values and relationships while learning lessons of self-reliance and self-sufficiency.

There is a need to learn that within them are internal resources and what they think they need from others or the outer world are actually resources they already have and what they don't have will be supplied by the Source. 

It seems to me that these egos are seeking to move from a fear centered orientation that their needs won't or might not be met with all that implies to one of trust that they will.

Thank you Ari!

I appreciate the clarity on SN 2nd house! Good to have a distinction of when sensual manipulation dynamics may or may not be relevant. Also great to have more insight on the frog in the well scenario.

Gratitude,
Nicole

Hi Chengting,

QuoteHi Ari !

Before posting my practice work, can I ask you 2 questions if it is available? thank you!ðŸ'š

1、What made me enjoy EA is the capacity of simply focusing upon the essence of archetype and my experience which largely open and empower my self knowledge. So if you wish, can you give some comments of how to completely understand a archetype? to me there are always have some confusion I couldn't get it.

I think it just takes time and it clicks for everyone on various levels of realization as we each walk our path. It's great your engaging the way you are asd asking questions. I think being able to acknoweldge what we don't know is most of the work.

The desire to learn something, coupled with a non posessive attitude, will always yeild knowledge.

Quote2、For example,there are some points I couldn't understand between Taurus and Scorpio. The first is money, if put the SN of one chart in 2nd house and another in 8th house, let's say both of them are quite obsessed with money or other resources, very good at manipulating others or systems to get money and power. but I don't know what is the key point (or difference) of the essence of Taurus and Scorpio archetypes, I lose the way.

2nd house correlates to self-interest, and an inherent self-preservation orientation. So here the motive is about survival and sustaining one's life. Consciousness orienting towards the phsyical world according to what it has identified as valuable and necessary for its life. Included in that is also the archetype of sensation. We identify what feels good and what doesn't feel good and on the most gross level there's an instinctual movement towards what feels good and away from what doesn't. From the point of view of the 2nd house, there's a tendency to stick with what feels good and that includes the resources and ways of living that the soul has identified as pleasurable, comfortable, sustaining. Money for the 2nd house ultimately reflects what one beleives it needs, what it values, what it "owns". There would not be an orientation to manipulate others or systems to get money or power unless the 2nd house was connected to Scorpio or Pluto in some way (ie Pluto in the 2nd house). But self interest, taking what one wants etc is totally possible with the 2nd house, just that's different than "manipulation".

With Scorpio, if you put your money into something or someone you "loose" sole ownership of it, you are investing something of "yourself" into something or someone that will produce a growth beyond what you could do on your own. The 8th house corresponds to symbols of power, that which is perceived on the outside to be necessary for one's own security and power. This is not basic physical security for survival, pleasure and comfort as we have in the 2nd house, this is a depeer psychoogical need for a mostly unconscious security linked to that which is outside. The emotions of jealousy, desire, attachment, craving and aversion will apply here. In the 2nd house we don't have that. There can be a simplistic attitude in the 2nd house to just take what one wants, or avoid what one doesn't - but the emotional triggers aren't a part of that.

So marrying a rich person for example can be a Scorpio way of osmosing with the symbol of power of wealth that than makes the soul feel they are getting something they lack. It's entirely psychologically driven.

QuoteThe second question is sex, both of them are possible to use sex as a mean to acquire other people's wealth or resources.I used to see some charts of sexual predator, the victim of sexual abuse, sex workers, yes, without surprising, they have packed 2/8 house signatures. I remember Jeffrey has said in one case (SN in 8th house) that the person should empowered herself which is the way out for her, but in another case with SN in 2th house, he gave the same suggestion.Once again, I lost my way. is it means that Taurus archetype represents self-empower and Scorpio symbolize empowered by others? but Scorpio corresponds to our psychological essence.

First, regarding the examples you mentioned, remember its not about leaving the sn behind - often times we need to do the sn work and bring more consciousness to it. We'd have to take each chart case by case. Havng the sn in the 2nd house doesn't mean a soul should stop sexually empowering themself.

Scorpio isn't about empowered by others, it's about empowered by our own soul essence. Our relationships and that which we merge with on the outside, ultiamtely are the paths we choose in order awaken to the power within. Otherwise, the trap with Scorpio is getting addicted/dependent on that which is outside beyond it's usefulness.

All the "others" will go as quickly as they came. Ultimately, the point of the 8th house/Scorpio archetype is to lead the soul back to itself. This happens by way of many cycles of involution and evolution. Eventually getting to a place where the strongest and only remaining desire is to reunite with the Souce. What that menas is a soul that is most intent on referencing their own self as the source, not outside of themself.

Sexualiy with others can help facilitiate that. However once we get into the Scorpio realm we are dealing with our deepest fears and insecurities, where we displace power to the outside. In the 8th house it's again linked with the sense of "what I see in the other I am psychological drawn to (or repelled by) and need to have it (or resist it)". The principal of the 8th house is desire. Desire here is not necessarily linked with biology and how the soul internalizes their own physicality (2nd house). Sex here would be linked to strong attraction on a deeper level and the necessity of trust, learning that it's safe to let go. The soul would deal with fears of abandonment, betrayal, merging with others, letting go, posessiveness, attachment, jealousy, fears of entrapment and so forth. So opening up to all of that, brings up the weakest places in a soul's psychology where they tend to go unconscious into behaviors of craving and aversion and thus it's where there is great potential for growth and soul-realization, be it through gentle or cataclysmic means.

2nd house can use sex relative to the need to feel pleasure, ground out and also self-esteem/self worth. Commodifying others for sexual gratitifcation or even being comodified oneself. This all points to one's self esteem- self value and where it is placed, where it comes from. For example sn in the 2nd house, lets say Capricorn is there and we are looking at a female in a patriarchal culture. This soul may have learned that she is valuable if she is attractive so she develops a self value system linked to the external patriarchal values of attractiveness and what a woman should look like to be appealing. This is entirely materialistic. Or a man with the same signature. He just wants to have sex and get off. No self-reflection, purely sensory oriented. For souls that are in a spiritual stage of evolution, this same signature can point to the refinement of inner beaty and health through the discipline of self-cultivation practices that strengthen one's life force and vitality: Capricorn 2nd house.

OK, I think I answered your questions. Of course feel free to ask further, anytime.

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 13, 2020, 02:38 PM

1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

1. South Node 2nd house identify with being self reliant and self sustaining.  Someone who is reliable/dependable (?) and able to take care of their survival needs.  Someone who 'has enough' or has the ability to 'have enough'.
I'm wondering because it's the SN if there is a confidence there because of familiarity?  'I will be okay/ I have the skills or resources to be okay' or a knowing that they will have enough or have the ability to have enough to meet their needs.

2. NN 8th house - learning through merging/bonding with others, letting go of accumulation and stagnation (material possessions, narrow views, anything including values which no longer align with the Soul's evolution).  Would it also be learning through taking risks? 


Thanks Ari!

Hi Ari

I am so happy to read your answers, yesterday I was not sure if I have expressed the questions explicitly, but you really give me detailed explanations, thanks for your carefulness and wisdom.

In addition, Here is what most inspired to me.🌟ðŸ'«âœ¨

"Scorpio isn't about empowered by others, it's about empowered by our own soul essence. Our relationships and that which we merge with on the outside, ultiamtely are the paths we choose in order awaken to the power within."

"2nd house can use sex relative to the need to feel pleasure, ground out and also self-esteem/self worth. Commodifying others for sexual gratitifcation or even being comodified oneself. This all points to one's self esteem- self value and where it is placed, where it comes from. For example sn in the 2nd house, lets say Capricorn is there and we are looking at a female in a patriarchal culture. This soul may have learned that she is valuable if she is attractive so she develops a self value system linked to the external patriarchal values of attractiveness and what a woman should look like to be appealing. This is entirely materialistic. Or a man with the same signature. He just wants to have sex and get off. No self-reflection, purely sensory oriented. For souls that are in a spiritual stage of evolution, this same signature can point to the refinement of inner beaty and health through the discipline of self-cultivation practices that strengthen one's life force and vitality: Capricorn 2nd house.

OK, I think I answered your questions. Of course feel free to ask further, anytime. "

A question just occurred on my heart, derive from your words which I referred above and a current news on child sexual abuse.your answer seems like adults consciously choice, but how it functioned like in some child victims of sexual abuse?
I remember some cases, both of strongly Scorpio and Taurus signatures chart can be a victim of sexual abuse. Maybe with SN in Taurus or 2th house, the person learn to look the confrontations, shocks and cataclysmic changes of life? I think children are not enjoy sex, it is a Scorpio violence, always.

Thank you as always

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 13, 2020, 02:38 PM

1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

1) A south Node in the second house refers to an ego structure that has sight, action and retention as a loop that it is exploring with very little room for release or letting go in the same. The soul sees value in what it can understand as his/hers or belonging to itself in all exclusivity, bases it's action on this sight and lives a life protecting and meeting challenges just to retain 'mine,' with very little consciousness of engaging in this possession, in other words 'mine.' Saying so, I also see the south node in 2nd as not necessarily having to do with not sharing with others or doing so with contempt loosely but as being involved in all experience so as to generate attachment either from initiating actions (to build) or by having a preponderance of results that it does not settle beyond generating them - something that creates karma aside from necessity of evolution.
This could be the amplitude of what the second house in the evolutionary past stands for as the south node.

2) With the north Node in the 8th house life can be somewhat unconscious to begin with, wherein the ease or challenges imminent may not be perceived, felt or encountered even as they surround the soul in outer circumstance and seem to speak to it. In a way, the soul is still immersed (vis-a-vis the nature of 8th) in it's south nodal character (behavioural depth). With time, complexities reign and it is destined that the soul is struck by the new reality that the 8th house implies which is learning to see what it has and why by first registering the more fluid (and sometimes shocking) reality that it is only in relationship, or shared enterprise, with others. This can cause emotional resistance or (opposite) a long-awaited (soul memory/sense) relief or exhaust release. [The conscious choice implied by the N.N. making it conscious through the psychology of cooperation]. The sense of merging in any case is an experience the soul enters into creating unique new memories of fulfillment or pain (as the doer or the receiver of either or both). My guess is that all of it could only make a north node in 8th house soul better come in contact with the abstract, unpredicatable/subtler, deeper - far more challenging view of it's selfhood than anything it has previously known, thus indicating a very powerful juncture in their soul growth story (over incarnations).

Hi Sunflower,

Quote1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.


Souls born with a South Node in the 2nd house, are generally familiar with identifying their own resources to sustain themselves. They developed self reliance and self-sufficiency being well rooted, grounded in the physical realm, but having a limited vision related about life which may degenerate into stagnation. Most of them believe that physical security brings emotional security. They know how to withdraw into themselves in order to survive and to explore their inner values.

Quote
2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

North Node represents the evolutionary trajectory and for souls with North Node in the 8th house. Inner and outer confrontations will reveal their limitations and the vulnerabilities of their value systems. Opening to others emotionally, communication, intimacy, sharing and change rather than living in isolation, will create potential to evolutionary growth, but it requires willingness to transform and move out from their personal limitations.They will learn to unite, consciously their resources, values and lives with others, on an emotional basis.

Excellent, everything you said is accurate and well said. I do want to clarify in case anyone gets this confused that the south node in the 2nd doesn't necessarily mean a soul will literally live alone - it can also be living very inwardly and internal to the point of not exposing themselves beyond their comfort zone. Greate job Sunflower.

Hi Pisces Lady,

Quote1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

The SN in the 2nd house indicates that the ego structure in the prior lives of these individuals is familiar with consciously focusing on identifying what is needed, and what they need to do to secure the resources they believe they need to sustain their lives.  How they define their needs and where to find the resources (internal vs external sources) to meet those needs will depend upon Pluto and the souls evolutionary state.  Their default sense of security depends on getting their self-defined needs met and having a resource to meet those needs regardless of whether they identify that need as material,  mental, emotional or spiritual.

This is an ego/personality structure has been and is on the path of learning self-reliance rather than other reliance.  They are the frog learning how to get out of the well of limited and narrow perceptions and self-definitions.

The Ego/self-image is conscious of what they think they need and what they need to do to get those needs met to feel secure.  They will be on a trajectory of learning to move from reliance on the external world to self-reliance in obtaining what is necessary to sustain themselves.   There will be a fixed and stubborn perspective on life, their value system and what is needed to be comfortable.  Once comfort is attained, they may tend to remain in place and resist moving out of the comfort zone either physically, mentally or emotionally and they may stay stuck in a limited view of what their needs are and what/where resources may be available.  This degree of narrow focus (frog in the well) will depend upon the sign of the SN and their evolutionary state. In the herd state the ego will focus on material values as the resource to define and meet needs (physical security, emotional security), in the individuated state the ego will focus on themselves as the resource (self-definition, skills, talents, self-sustainment), and in the spiritual state the ego will focus on the Source as the resource (rituals, paths) to define and meet needs.

This is true, and just to clarify in case anyone misunderstands this, in all states the potential for stagnation and fixation on materialism is there. I.E., a soul in the spiritual state and in the consensus state can both have a strong orientation to unconscious self-gratification/ chocolate addiction/ masterbation or sex addiction etc.

Also the degree of narrow focus doesn't depend upon the sign. The sign will be a part of what indicates the nature of the focus, but not the degree.

Quote
   The state of limitation will apply to all 2nd house SN souls, regardless of evolutionary state. The ego will experience confrontations with their own limitations to force them from their limited POV to see their orientation to reality, resources, personal values and relationships from a larger perspective.  They can learn a new way of relating to themselves, the world about them, and people in their world.  Expect this ego to attract people and situations to themselves in order to discover their personal limitations.

Excellent, your analysis of the sn in the 2nd is very thorough and well said.

Quote2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

The NN in the 8th is about the ego learning how to let go of old narrow-minded ideas, self-centered values, and destructive manipulative relationships in meeting their needs to embracing, opening up and being receptive to other people and POV's.    They will be learning that they can unite with others without becoming dependent and/or manipulative of others and their resources.   Merging with others in this way can transform and widen their perspectives, and transform personal values and relationships while learning lessons of self-reliance and self-sufficiency.

There is a need to learn that within them are internal resources and what they think they need from others or the outer world are actually resources they already have and what they don't have will be supplied by the Source.

All true except these souls will not necessarily be learning that what they need from others the already have within since they are coming from the 2nd house. The evolutionary growth will be more about letting go of narrow self identification with how they live, and learning to share, be vulnerable, open up to exchange that will create a reality beyond what they can face by themselves. Working with their own psychological fears, limitations. Also becoming mroe psychologically oriented/interested. A growing desire to understand the underlying "why" or cause for things, and thus a willingness to look deeper and be exposed.

Quote
It seems to me that these egos are seeking to move from a fear centered orientation that their needs won't or might not be met with all that implies to one of trust that they will.

Great work Pisces Lady! Thank you for your work.

Hi AnnieK

Quote1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

1. South Node 2nd house identify with being self reliant and self sustaining.  Someone who is reliable/dependable (?) and able to take care of their survival needs.  Someone who 'has enough' or has the ability to 'have enough'.
I'm wondering because it's the SN if there is a confidence there because of familiarity?  'I will be okay/ I have the skills or resources to be okay' or a knowing that they will have enough or have the ability to have enough to meet their needs.

Good question. There MIGHT be such a confidence. With the sn there what's implied is that the identity strcutre has been focalized around 2nd house lifetimes and ways of being. This can mean a soul comes into the life feeling secure in themself, resourceful, able to survive. This can run the gamut from someone who can live alone in the forest for months to someone who sows their own clothing. Or a person who has lived in poverty, has a deep struggle with self-esteem and self-worth, has a tendency towards laziness to the point of not putting effort to meet their own needs but just going along with what's available etc.

Tenacity is a general quality of the 2nd house - the ability to stick with something, be steady, go slow. Such a soul would be self-reliant and stable. But this ability to stick with something can also express as total stubbornness to stick with unhealthy patterns of self gratification/ pleasure to the point of stagnation.

Quote2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

2. NN 8th house - learning through merging/bonding with others, letting go of accumulation and stagnation (material possessions, narrow views, anything including values which no longer align with the Soul's evolution).  Would it also be learning through taking risks?

Taking risks perhaps, though I'd need to hear more about what you mean by that. The psychology of "getting out of the well" is scary and threathening to the ego structure that knows what it knows and sticks with that. It means confronting fears and psychological-limitations.

Great point with the letting go of accumulation and stagnation. 8th house corresponds to the regeneration/cycling of energy.
Thank you for your work AnnieK!

Hi Chengting,

Quote
A question just occurred on my heart, derive from your words which I referred above and a current news on child sexual abuse.your answer seems like adults consciously choice, but how it functioned like in some child victims of sexual abuse?
I remember some cases, both of strongly Scorpio and Taurus signatures chart can be a victim of sexual abuse. Maybe with SN in Taurus or 2th house, the person learn to look the confrontations, shocks and cataclysmic changes of life? I think children are not enjoy sex, it is a Scorpio violence, always.

Each chart needs to be understood individually to understand why any soul would choose to experience that. Each soul is responsible for the totality of the life they come into. This is never meant as a source of blame or shame or to say to the person "you wanted this." The soul, through it's identification with it's ego construct, isn't usually aware of why these things happen and the evolutionary purpose behind them. There are all kinds of karmic reasons.

And this can happen with all kinds of possible 2nd house/ 8th house dynamics. Even the south node in the 2nd house, if other factors are involved, can indicate the possibility of sexual abuse/trauma or inflicting it upon others etc. In general for abuse/manipulation/ Pluto or Scorpio needs to be involved. Deceit Neptune. Trauma, dissociation Uranus. Shame, repression, unethical behavior Saturn. Violence Mars etc.

If you'd like you are welcome to start another thread to explore the dynamic of sexual abuse as it relates to the 2nd/8th house nodal axis if you have any specific questions that you'd like to clarify.

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 16, 2020, 03:19 PM
Hi Chengting,

Quote
A question just occurred on my heart, derive from your words which I referred above and a current news on child sexual abuse.your answer seems like adults consciously choice, but how it functioned like in some child victims of sexual abuse?
I remember some cases, both of strongly Scorpio and Taurus signatures chart can be a victim of sexual abuse. Maybe with SN in Taurus or 2th house, the person learn to look the confrontations, shocks and cataclysmic changes of life? I think children are not enjoy sex, it is a Scorpio violence, always.

Each chart needs to be understood individually to understand why any soul would choose to experience that. Each soul is responsible for the totality of the life they come into. This is never meant as a source of blame or shame or to say to the person "you wanted this." The soul, through it's identification with it's ego construct, isn't usually aware of why these things happen and the evolutionary purpose behind them. There are all kinds of karmic reasons.

And this can happen with all kinds of possible 2nd house/ 8th house dynamics. Even the south node in the 2nd house, if other factors are involved, can indicate the possibility of sexual abuse/trauma or inflicting it upon others etc. In general for abuse/manipulation/ Pluto or Scorpio needs to be involved. Deceit Neptune. Trauma, dissociation Uranus. Shame, repression, unethical behavior Saturn. Violence Mars etc.

If you'd like you are welcome to start another thread to explore the dynamic of sexual abuse as it relates to the 2nd/8th house nodal axis if you have any specific questions that you'd like to clarify.

Hi Chengtin and Ari,
I'd love another thread on this topic as it will bring lucidity through facts contrasted to so much I have heard on this both in astrology and informal psychology. In transits to my own chart (looking back, as am only a couple years old in astrological study) I spot a peculiar nodal connection to the 2nd and 8th houses, learning from these perhaps we can scan for social sensitivity times at any other juncture that stood out in our lives.

Thanks. And even this much did help.

Hi Ari and Gauri !

Thanks for clarifing my question Ari, to Gauri, the topic is simply half-baked thoughts, I am not sure of starting a new thread for throughout discussion(I am a beginner! ) . However, if you have any insights, I'd like to learn from itðŸ'œðŸ'•.

Gratitude,Chengting

Hi Ari,

I would please like to share my experience of working through these 2 questions. Question 1 was pretty straightforward for me and I could figure which way to go and I completed it soon enough.
Question 2 was: on a funny note.. if there was a way to go cross-eyed in my head, I did...a few times over and some :))) I read the chapter on the 8th House and for some reason could not connect the North Node's seemingly simple question to the material there to respond in a succinct manner. I finally gave up trying as my head was too jumbled with all the words..terms etc. Last evening, I briefly read a few of the responses, and noticed that one way of approaching it was through the 2nd house lens...something shifted in me, cant figure what, but I read my answer to the 2nd house question and then could identify the way forward for the North Node question in a way that made sense to me. Sorry for this long explanation...but would truly appreciate any feedback on the way it "clicked" for me...is that the right approach? Thanks very much for your energy and patience...

Assignment:2
1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.
For the South Node in the 2nd House, there is a broad need that is about the physical and biological survival of the human species. These souls have an extra strong survival instinct and they have learned how to identify their own  personal resources to sustain themselves. They also have a need to survive and sustain themselves on the emotional level, with a strong bent toward self-reliance and self-sufficiency. They have a very strong sexual nature which correlates to the fact that reproduction of the species is key to its survival.
Because of their prior life experiences of withdrawal to discover themselves, in this life they are self-focused and fixed on themselves, their experiences and their own essence with no awareness of what happens around them. It is the energy of a "frog in the well"to quote Jeffrey, where these souls have a limited vision about themselves and life in general. So they rely on this limited vision as it "works" for them. They feel quite safe and secure like the frogs at the bottom of the well. A sense of safety in the known. This reliance upon the past energy can create an inertia and a resistance to jumping out of their own "well".


2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

The Soul coming from a 2nd house South Node, of having an extra strong survival instinct in the physical, biological and emotional planes, with a bent towards self-reliance and self-sufficiency, and to achieve that withdrawing to self-focus, leading to as Jeffrey says a "frog in the well" and a safety in the known kind of energy will have a limited vision of themselves and the world. Depending on which Evolutionary stage they are in will reflect where the limitations are for these souls.
With the North Node in the 8th House, these souls will experience intense internal and external confrontations due to which the limitations in all the areas will be revealed to them, including pushing them to go beyond their self-imposed personal isolation, and examine the deeper forces at work within them, and examine their motivations and the reasons, and their desires and the reasons for them. This push towards self-examination will cover other related areas as well. All of this will create a potential for total metamorphosis.
These souls will now learn to unite their lives and resources with others so that a transformation of limitations happens. In some cases, because of their inherent inertia and their fixation on the "why questions""¦here being "why the change", this fixity creates potential for cataclysmic situations, through which their entire world, inner and outer, is then transformed.
In the 8th house, these souls will at crucial times attract intense and powerful people in their life, but if too much power is given to them, the Evolutionary force of the 8th House North Node will forcibly remove that person from their life, so as to reiterate the ongoing lessons of self-reliance and self-sufficiency.
In learning these lessons through understanding their limitations, they will engage in appropriate activities that will mutate their limitations. Furthermore, these souls, having lived though this "transformation of limitations" process, will be able to point out the limitations of others and suggest ways to transform them."¨

Thanks Ari...all feedback, inputs is truly appreciated..

Hi Ari

Here is my exercise work:


1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.


The SN links to our past life habitual emotional patterns, created relative to the Soul's desire nature, brought into the present life. SN in the 2nd house indicates the people have withdraw into themselves in past lives to develop their own value systems, through self reliance they establish inner relationship with themselves, and the sense of self esteem. However, they have a tendency to over isolate, to stay content in their own small space, this may create a block to growing, learning, and evolving beyond their narrow realities. Sometimes, material resource is a mirror of their self value, over indulgence in good life, parsimony, and poverty can be a reflection of this. some of them have natural self esteems and can be at ease and stable with any material condition.


2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.


Essentially, this means they must learn how to identify the motivations and psychological constructions of themselves and close others. open to the totality of reality that lies beyond their own inwardly compressed reality.

For evolution to process, they may embrace change and transformation, material condition and intimate relationship can be a evolutionary catalyst which reveal the limits of their value systems, shake them out of isolation. They have to experience the deep layer of life itself: psychological intention, the complexity of human nature.

Gratitude
Chengting

Hi Ari, thank you for your feedback!

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 05, 2020, 06:46 PMBy concentration I mean focus, orientation around. The inner desire nature of the soul is the determinant for life experience. The outer is a reflection of the inner.

Thank you for clarifying - I guess in a sense would it be kind of similar to what Nicole said about the Moon and its nodes essentially acting as the "conditioning" of the Soul, via the emotional body.  I imagine whilst conditioning factors such as those symbolised by Saturn , tend to have an "adding to" quality, the conditioning of the Soul itself via the emotional body is more like a "distillation" or a "reduction" like in cooking, of sorts?  Hence more "concentrated".

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 05, 2020, 06:46 PMAll true and very well thought out. Just to make sure you are really connecting with the essence, I want to clarify that eveything you wrote here reflects the aspects of the soul's journey that will come and go. Gender, failure, success, structures, limitations, social purpose, sense of responsibility etc are all ephemeral conditions. A soul might manifest a position of power and social esteem and then manifest a lifetime or a time of being stripped of their power.  The point with Pluto is graducally moving through these life experiences and directing desire more and more towards the soul itself: what doesn't come and go. All of the 10th house conditions mgiht be relevant for the soul's growth for a time, but none of them will be relevant for all time.

What you express here is the essence of what I was aiming to express about "timeless-ness":

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 05, 2020, 06:46 PMThe point on timelessness is not necessarily true. I.E. in consensus stages, lets say a person looses their job. Embracing the polarity point isn't about dropping self-concept linked with time and space but with ultimately coming into a new self-concept by way of accessing more of one's inner security and safety, leading them to start a new cycle with new opportunities.

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 05, 2020, 06:46 PMOne thing you didn't mention that I'll add since you did such a great job at thinking this though, is the dynamic of a deep sense of shame. Shame here equaling an internalized beleif that one is inherently wrong. This shame can result in a deep feeling that they need to be punished for being a bad person equaling experiences of disempowerment/disconnect from one's inner authority. It will also result in a perception (Pluto) of the world as harsh and punishing. Mayn souls with Pluto in the 10th house carry into the current life a deep guilt that until processed will result in creating a reality of shame, blame and punishment for themselves. It's also common that these souls will have osmosed into themselves societal judgments of right and wrong, resulting in them repressing their own natural human urges and seeing them as "wrong" on the basis of having been deeply conditioned according to external standards.  Of course the Pluto polarity here in the 4th would be about accessing the emotions that have been repressed so that this pattern can change. This often takes time and in particular a new rleationship to time where the soul realizes the need for healing and care.

Thank you for elaborating on this aspect.  When I was reading the chapter, I had thought about guilt this but kind of struggled to relate the dynamic of the archetype and the dynamic of guilt and shame together...  Would the result of guilt and shame be an example of how integration of the 4th house polarity point can become distorted, which then causes the dynamics of the 10th house archetype to remain unresolved/perpetuated?  And so then the distorted 4th house dynamics, then become the internally-derived basis for judgements one imposes upon themselves, and by extension others?

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 05, 2020, 06:46 PMThis is all really well said. Most of what you wrote here reflect a very well integrated undersatnding of how the Pluto polarity point in the 4th plays out and how to understand it's function in general.
Thank you for your work L.A.S!

Thanks again Ari :) (2nd house SN assignment will follow...)

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 13, 2020, 02:38 PM
1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

- Default emotional orientation to reality focused upon the physical/material at most basic and essential level
- Default emotional security/orientation derived from and dependent upon attaining and maintaining an inner sense of "equilibrium", homeostasis, stability, with the physical environment and thus within oneself
- Seeks/defines emotional security by what is basic, simple, uncomplicated, what is most essential and immediately pragmatic
- Prompts from the senses inform emotional reality
- (Inner awareness of) vulnerabilities on a most basic/physical/material/tangible level inform orientation to reality
-Evaluating life/reality/relationships/self through the lens of survival: what is self-sustaining vs. what is not; what is perceived as a threat to self-sustainment is avoided
- Evaluation leads to what constitutes worth, value, and personal meaning, that contribute's to one's sense of comfort/inner equilibrium and maintenance of
-Awareness of/honouring one's physical/material limitations and pragmatically working/operating within the frame/scope of these basic limitations
-Internal focus and consequent withdrawal/isolation from external environment creates stagnation and limitations
- Resulting in resistance towards integrating/incorporating/merging with anything that is perceived as "unessential" to one's self-sustainment, or perceived as posing a potential threat to one's personal sense of stability/survival, informs and is informed by value system and sense of meaning

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 13, 2020, 02:38 PM2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

- Shelter vs. exposure
- Grow beyond and transmute personal limitations
- To expose and bring awareness to one's self-created limitations, lack of/resistance to awareness due to narrow and singular focus on security/stability
- Awareness of the deeper causes/motivations, beyond the physical and tangible, for one's limited orientation to reality
- Developing an awareness of emotional/subliminal aspects of self/others/reality that are not necessarily or immediately accessible/verifiable by the senses or that are concrete/consistence/reliable in nature
- Open oneself to karmic/evolutionary requirements/necessities that are not directly defined by one's material/physical orientation to reality
- Experiences/confrontations that promote the redefinition of one's value systems that allow for necessary evolutionary growth to occur
- Release attachments to security/stability derived solely from the physical, and that have become limiting/inhibiting in nature
- Embrace change, and the transitory/evolutionary/impermanent/shifting aspects of nature to cultivate a deeper appreciation of life and oneself
- Experiences promote a greater/deeper capacity for self-reliance/self-sufficiency
- Lessons around receptivity and mutual exchange/merging of resources and love that are beyond the physical
- Integrate/incorporate self value and personal resources with others/society; integrate/incorporate values and resources of others/society into confines of one's own reality
- Realise and become more receptive to experiences and sources of power outside of oneself

Hi Gauri,

Quote
1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

1) A south Node in the second house refers to an ego structure that has sight, action and retention as a loop that it is exploring with very little room for release or letting go in the same. The soul sees value in what it can understand as his/hers or belonging to itself in all exclusivity, bases it's action on this sight and lives a life protecting and meeting challenges just to retain 'mine,' with very little consciousness of engaging in this possession, in other words 'mine.' Saying so, I also see the south node in 2nd as not necessarily having to do with not sharing with others or doing so with contempt loosely but as being involved in all experience so as to generate attachment either from initiating actions (to build) or by having a preponderance of results that it does not settle beyond generating them - something that creates karma aside from necessity of evolution.
This could be the amplitude of what the second house in the evolutonary past stands for as the south node.

All of this is true and you articulate it all well. And yes it's not just about not sharing, being posesive of what is "mine". More simply the 2nd house corresopnsd to a soul that has oreinted towards self-reliance. So many 2nd house sn souls are stable, content and very artistic, resourceful and not necessarily posessive. The south node doesn't always mean regressive qualities, but the key is not to stay just there as per evolutionary necessity.


2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

2) With the north Node in the 8th house life can be somewhat unconscious to begin with, wherein the ease or challenges imminent may not be perceived, felt or encountered even as they surround the soul in outer circumstance and seem to speak to it. In a way, the soul is still immersed (vis-a-vis the nature of 8th) in it's south nodal character (behavioural depth). With time, complexities reign and it is destined that the soul is struck by the new reality that the 8th house implies which is learning to see what it has and why by first registering the more fluid (and sometimes shocking) reality that it is only in relationship, or shared enterprise, with others. This can cause emotional resistance or (opposite) a long-awaited (soul memory/sense) relief or exhaust release. [The conscious choice implied by the N.N. making it conscious through the psychology of cooperation]. The sense of merging in any case is an experience the soul enters into creating unique new memories of fulfillment or pain (as the door or the receiver of either or both). My guess is that all of it could only make a north node in 8th house soul better come in contact with the abstract, unpredicatable/subtler, deeper - far more challenging view of it's selfhood than anything it has previously known, thus indicating a very powerful juncture in their soul growth story (over incarnations).

Excellent. To clarify, I wouldn't use "unpredictable" for 8th house as that archetype specifically relates to that which is beyond conditioned expectations and relates to Uranus. 8th house isn't unpredictable, but it does bring up what is previously unconscious. The experience you pointed to of accessing a relam far deeper than what it has known by way of giving up resistance to any orientation towards isolation/ being overly internal is very true, can be both empowering and feel deeply threathening at times.
Great work Gauri, thank you for your efforts! You understand the nature of the nodal polarity really well.

Hi Geeta,

QuoteI would please like to share my experience of working through these 2 questions. Question 1 was pretty straightforward for me and I could figure which way to go and I completed it soon enough.
Question 2 was: on a funny note.. if there was a way to go cross-eyed in my head, I did...a few times over and some Smiley)) I read the chapter on the 8th House and for some reason could not connect the North Node's seemingly simple question to the material there to respond in a succinct manner. I finally gave up trying as my head was too jumbled with all the words..terms etc. Last evening, I briefly read a few of the responses, and noticed that one way of approaching it was through the 2nd house lens...something shifted in me, cant figure what, but I read my answer to the 2nd house question and then could identify the way forward for the North Node question in a way that made sense to me. Sorry for this long explanation...but would truly appreciate any feedback on the way it "clicked" for me...is that the right approach? Thanks very much for your energy and patience...

Great! Any approach can be right. Yes looking at the 8th house from the POV of someone coming from the 2nd house would be useful.

QuoteAssignment:2
1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

For the South Node in the 2nd House, there is a broad need that is about the physical and biological survival of the human species. These souls have an extra strong survival instinct and they have learned how to identify their own  personal resources to sustain themselves. They also have a need to survive and sustain themselves on the emotional level, with a strong bent toward self-reliance and self-sufficiency. They have a very strong sexual nature which correlates to the fact that reproduction of the species is key to its survival.
Because of their prior life experiences of withdrawal to discover themselves, in this life they are self-focused and fixed on themselves, their experiences and their own essence with no awareness of what happens around them. It is the energy of a "frog in the well"to quote Jeffrey, where these souls have a limited vision about themselves and life in general. So they rely on this limited vision as it "works" for them. They feel quite safe and secure like the frogs at the bottom of the well. A sense of safety in the known. This reliance upon the past energy can create an inertia and a resistance to jumping out of their own "well".

Great, all accurate. And since we are looking at the sn, the key to remember here is this is an idnetity strcture. The soul has known itself as self reliant and has past lives of a 2nd house nature.

One correction, depending on the sign and other factors, their sexual nature may not be intense. I.E. if the south node is in Scorpio in the 2nd house, then yes likely an intense sexual nature. If the south node is in Aquarius in the 2nd house then not necessarily - they might even be detached or disinterested sexually. Pisces perhaps indiscriminate and open or innocent and naive etc.

Quote2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

The Soul coming from a 2nd house South Node, of having an extra strong survival instinct in the physical, biological and emotional planes, with a bent towards self-reliance and self-sufficiency, and to achieve that withdrawing to self-focus, leading to as Jeffrey says a "frog in the well" and a safety in the known kind of energy will have a limited vision of themselves and the world. Depending on which Evolutionary stage they are in will reflect where the limitations are for these souls.
With the North Node in the 8th House, these souls will experience intense internal and external confrontations due to which the limitations in all the areas will be revealed to them, including pushing them to go beyond their self-imposed personal isolation, and examine the deeper forces at work within them, and examine their motivations and the reasons, and their desires and the reasons for them. This push towards self-examination will cover other related areas as well. All of this will create a potential for total metamorphosis.
These souls will now learn to unite their lives and resources with others so that a transformation of limitations happens. In some cases, because of their inherent inertia and their fixation on the "why questions""¦here being "why the change", this fixity creates potential for cataclysmic situations, through which their entire world, inner and outer, is then transformed.

In case I don't understand you correctly - the soul wouldn't inherently be fixed on the "why" questions as the 2nd house orientation is not to ask why. However in order to embrace change the 2nd house south node soul will need to feel secure enough to "let go" thus understanding why the change is important. Otherwise this soul will feel forced out of it's security and not have the necessary awareness to integrate and grow.

QuoteIn the 8th house, these souls will at crucial times attract intense and powerful people in their life, but if too much power is given to them, the Evolutionary force of the 8th House North Node will forcibly remove that person from their life, so as to reiterate the ongoing lessons of self-reliance and self-sufficiency.

This woud be more true if the south node were in the 8th house (though sometimes the north node can also reflect such dynamics, but we won't go there now). Here the lesson wouldn't be to not become dependent but to be able to understand and release it's own holding pattern for isolation and self-retreat. To embrace the confrontations and challenges that such powerful interactinos bring about in order to become more self aware. This soul might also be attracted to intense and powerful people on the basis of wanting to focus (8th house) their attention on growth and evolution, knowing such relationships will help them become more psychologically self aware.

QuoteIn learning these lessons through understanding their limitations, they will engage in appropriate activities that will mutate their limitations. Furthermore, these souls, having lived though this "transformation of limitations" process, will be able to point out the limitations of others and suggest ways to transform them."¨

I think you did just fine Geeta. I see you beginning to grasp how the north node in the 8th house works. Remember that it's a matter of the soul consciously choosing to evolve which in this case means embracing a context for living that is beyond what it can do and sustain just by itself. The need to share, to expose itself to the world outside of what is simple and under its control. This can be relationship as much as it can be starting a business, sharing its gifts, looking into the deeper realms of human/soul motivation and learning to transmute it's gross identifications with body and senes into soul awakening. Through this, the soul might be attracted to or destined to come into contact with other souls whom they can share with on an intense emotional/sexual/psychological level. Through comittment to the work with these individuals, the soul will awaken to latent power within themselves that they could not have known had they been entirely identified with the narrow world they knew.

Think of the 2nd house as the garden. Everything is growing and flourishing. The 8th house is the compost that becomes fertilizer. It's the lowest muck and breakdown of every form so that new life can emerge. So all of the soul's gifts and abilities will dry up and become exhausted in the same way that planting the same crop on the same soil year after year will lead to depltion. But through the 8th house, a regernation of energy can occur and the soul finds that by evolving and growing, letting parts die and reaching deeper within itself, a whole new level of growth becomes possible.

Great work Geeta! Thank you for your work.

Hi Chengting,

Quote1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.


The SN links to our past life habitual emotional patterns, created relative to the Soul's desire nature, brought into the present life. SN in the 2nd house indicates the people have withdraw into themselves in past lives to develop their own value systems, through self reliance they establish inner relationship with themselves, and the sense of self esteem. However, they have a tendency to over isolate, to stay content in their own small space, this may create a block to growing, learning, and evolving beyond their narrow realities. Sometimes, material resource is a mirror of their self value, over indulgence in good life, parsimony, and poverty can be a reflection of this. some of them have natural self esteems and can be at ease and stable with any material condition.

Excellent.

Quote2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.


Essentially, this means they must learn how to identify the motivations and psychological constructions of themselves and close others. open to the totality of reality that lies beyond their own inwardly compressed reality.

For evolution to process, they may embrace change and transformation, material condition and intimate relationship can be a evolutionary catalyst which reveal the limits of their value systems, shake them out of isolation. They have to experience the deep layer of life itself: psychological intention, the complexity of human nature.

Excellent work Chengting, all clear and to the point. Another factor can be the need for the soul to share their resources, or theis skills etc and open up to greater complexity. What isn't put into circulation in some way or another, creates stagnation. This is because the 8th hosue symbolizes change: nothing ultimately is meant to just stay put and remain the same. So this soul is learning to jump into the flow of change and become unposessive in its attitude.

Hi Ari,

Yes, I am thinking of the association of agriculture and business.Thank you!ðŸ'›ðŸŽµ

Hello, everyone.
I'm sending (if a bit late)  my answers regarding the 2nd/8th house SN,NN.

1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.
Since second house correlates with survival and values, SN in the 2nd house can mean that these have been people learning about what they need in order to sustain themselves on their own.   They have been learning how to be self-sufficient and self-reliant.  Often it meant withdrawal from other people into themselves, so they were better able to identify their own needs, values and the resources they have at their disposal.  I'd say that this is the default security for this soul, the ability to "soldier on" through life with what they have. 
As a result, they might have gained certain knowledge about the world and themselves, and developed certain skills. The problem is that this knowledge is limited, but because it has worked for them and is familiar,  they stick to it and might be unwilling to change or broaden their horizons.

2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.
The 8th house is about transforming our limitation by merging with something/someone that symbolizes what we need to become, but cannot become solely on our own. At a certain point the tried and tested approach to life of the 2nd house SN person stops to work for one reason or another and a person is forced out of their familiar comfort zone.  They will have to open themselves to others to change their limited self-identity and evolve beyond it. After all, soldier on through life is not the same as living. The 8th house NN prompts a question about their values and resources, why do they value this and not something else, why do they stubbornly cling to this resource and in the process it makes them discover their own, often unconcsious, motivation behind it.

Well, I hope you all are doing fine, under the present circumstances, wherever you are.
Barbora

Hi Ari!
Thanks for your last feedback. There are my answers about the Nodes.

1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

1. People with the South Node in the 2nd house have a very strong need to feel safe physically and, by extension emotionally, since for these people there was a strong connection between these two plans.
To ensure their physical and emotional survival, they learned, through recourse to inner recollection, to identify resources and values that guarantee their self-sufficiency and their self-esteem. Here "having" is being, and they have learned to "have" over many incarnations since they have acquired great abilities to attract to themselves the resources they need, sometimes honestly and sometimes not so much. Often, other people were used and manipulated so that they would obtain the necessary resources, in order to feel safe.
This very limited view of themselves and life led them to go through various experiences, sometimes cataclysmic, where they were confronted with these personal limitations so that they could reevaluate their needs and values as well as the relationships they established with others and with themselves. The awareness of these limitations and their origins led them to change the focus of their motivations, desires, values, and consequently, through the necessary effort, change their patterns of relationship with themselves and with others. These learnings, acquired over many lifetimes, can serve others, namely, those who are going through similar situations of confrontation with what blocks and limits them because they learned how to transform them, learned to cooperate with others to obtain necessary resources both and know what needs to be done to establish self-esteem and self-confidence.

2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

When the north node is placed in house 8, individuals with this position will need, cyclically and at all levels, to consciously confront their limits and blocks, and transform them through relationships formed with symbols of power (which can be anything like a concept, an idea, a relationship). Here, they go through experiences where they will have to deal with power, due to what they are or have already experienced, versus impotence, due to the unknown and the inexperienced, which implies the recognition of more powerful external forces. So, consciously, its fusion with these symbols, sources of power, promotes the metamorphosis necessary to overcome these limitations, which have become areas of stagnation preventing growth.
These confrontational experiences promote knowledge about how everything works and why it works that way, whether it be yourself or other people. There is a need to know the reason for things because, in doing so, they understand what prevents growth. This works as a natural magnetism, attracting people who feel they can help them. They learn to make decisions about who to get involved in and what to trust in a relationship, learn to make appropriate choices, which symbolize what they want and need to satisfy their conscious need. Relationships with others can be very valid experiences so that the individual can choose an evolutionary path free of dependencies, manipulations, relational karma and be able to become the symbols of transforming power themselves.

Susana

Hi Ari,

Deep gratitude for all your feedback and inputs. And I will admit that it is taking me time to connect all the dots. Please know it's my way of processing..processor runs s...l...o...w... sometimes:))

How I plan to solutionize this is by reading both chapters again in the coming week and then re-looking at my responses and your inputs. Thank you for your patience...I know I will "get it".

Please move ahead at the pace you mean to...I will catch up :)

Bless you..

Geeta

Hi Little April Shower, Barbora, Susana and anyone else who posts,
Just letting you know that I'll be sitting with your posts tomorrow morning!

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 18, 2020, 03:53 PM
Hi Little April Shower, Barbora, Susana and anyone else who posts,
Just letting you know that I'll be sitting with your posts tomorrow morning!

Hello, Ari,
thank you for your kind response. As far as I am concerned, take all the time you need (I certainly did take my time to post something...)
With that many people participating in this thread, you surely have your work cut out for you. The last thing I would want for you is to be chained to a computer.

Barbora

Hi Little April Shower,

Quote

QuoteBy concentration I mean focus, orientation around. The inner desire nature of the soul is the determinant for life experience. The outer is a reflection of the inner.

Thank you for clarifying - I guess in a sense would it be kind of similar to what Nicole said about the Moon and its nodes essentially acting as the "conditioning" of the Soul, via the emotional body.  I imagine whilst conditioning factors such as those symbolised by Saturn , tend to have an "adding to" quality, the conditioning of the Soul itself via the emotional body is more like a "distillation" or a "reduction" like in cooking, of sorts?  Hence more "concentrated".

I'm not sure - I'd have to think about the words a bit more. I'll say that identity simply follows the lead of the soul, it has no life of it's own. So it's literally just a vehicle for desire. It's possible I'm not 100% follownig your quesiton.

If there's more you'd like to explore around this, you're welcome to post a question on a new thread and we can look deeper. And i'm sure Rad will have vaulable insight on this.

QuoteWhen I was reading the chapter, I had thought about guilt this but kind of struggled to relate the dynamic of the archetype and the dynamic of guilt and shame together...  Would the result of guilt and shame be an example of how integration of the 4th house polarity point can become distorted, which then causes the dynamics of the 10th house archetype to remain unresolved/perpetuated?  And so then the distorted 4th house dynamics, then become the internally-derived basis for judgements one imposes upon themselves, and by extension others?

The way I'd express this is: unprocessed shame and guilt (which both relate to the 10th house, not the 4th house) result in resistance to evolutionary necessity in that it keeps the soul operating on the same level of consciousness. Unresolved guilt will determine a psychology of either beleiving oneself to be bad and thus deserving of punishment and the need to atone/find ways to play out that sense of being bad, or it will result in the soul hiding away it's inner sense of being bad and constantly living in the fear that others will perceive them according to their own internalized self-judgments. Or both and more. In all cases the 4th house: self intimacy, is avoided and thus the soul does not go beyond/integrate this surface psychology of shame and guilt and remains entrapped by it. One of the key pieces of the 4th house PPP is the need for safety in order to access all the places that had otherwise been pushed away or repressed.

Hi Little April Shower,

Quote1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

- Default emotional orientation to reality focused upon the physical/material at most basic and essential level
- Default emotional security/orientation derived from and dependent upon attaining and maintaining an inner sense of "equilibrium", homeostasis, stability, with the physical environment and thus within oneself
- Seeks/defines emotional security by what is basic, simple, uncomplicated, what is most essential and immediately pragmatic
- Prompts from the senses inform emotional reality
- (Inner awareness of) vulnerabilities on a most basic/physical/material/tangible level inform orientation to reality
-Evaluating life/reality/relationships/self through the lens of survival: what is self-sustaining vs. what is not; what is perceived as a threat to self-sustainment is avoided
- Evaluation leads to what constitutes worth, value, and personal meaning, that contribute's to one's sense of comfort/inner equilibrium and maintenance of
-Awareness of/honouring one's physical/material limitations and pragmatically working/operating within the frame/scope of these basic limitations
-Internal focus and consequent withdrawal/isolation from external environment creates stagnation and limitations
- Resulting in resistance towards integrating/incorporating/merging with anything that is perceived as "unessential" to one's self-sustainment, or perceived as posing a potential threat to one's personal sense of stability/survival, informs and is informed by value system and sense of meaning

Excellent work!

QuoteQuote from: ari moshe on Apr 13, 2020, 11:38 AM
2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

- Shelter vs. exposure
- Grow beyond and transmute personal limitations
- To expose and bring awareness to one's self-created limitations, lack of/resistance to awareness due to narrow and singular focus on security/stability
- Awareness of the deeper causes/motivations, beyond the physical and tangible, for one's limited orientation to reality
- Developing an awareness of emotional/subliminal aspects of self/others/reality that are not necessarily or immediately accessible/verifiable by the senses or that are concrete/consistence/reliable in nature
- Open oneself to karmic/evolutionary requirements/necessities that are not directly defined by one's material/physical orientation to reality
- Experiences/confrontations that promote the redefinition of one's value systems that allow for necessary evolutionary growth to occur
- Release attachments to security/stability derived solely from the physical, and that have become limiting/inhibiting in nature
- Embrace change, and the transitory/evolutionary/impermanent/shifting aspects of nature to cultivate a deeper appreciation of life and oneself
- Experiences promote a greater/deeper capacity for self-reliance/self-sufficiency
- Lessons around receptivity and mutual exchange/merging of resources and love that are beyond the physical
- Integrate/incorporate self value and personal resources with others/society; integrate/incorporate values and resources of others/society into confines of one's own reality
- Realise and become more receptive to experiences and sources of power outside of oneself

Excellent, you understand the nodal relationship very well. One point I'll add is that the sn in the 2nd can point to an identity structure that has become so identified with materialistic values that it is either indulgent in self-gratification, hording/ never letting go of what it identifies as a necessary resource (even if it really isn't), seeking pleasure on purely instinctive basis resulting in putting no effort towards really cultivating and sustaining one's own life. And thus the 8th house can reflect confrontations with the impermanence of all things it values or has identified as a necessary resource. This can be utterly shocking to the soul but also catalyze profound growth.
Thank you for your work LAS!

Hi Barbora,

Quote

1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

Since second house correlates with survival and values, SN in the 2nd house can mean that these have been people learning about what they need in order to sustain themselves on their own.   They have been learning how to be self-sufficient and self-reliant.  Often it meant withdrawal from other people into themselves, so they were better able to identify their own needs, values and the resources they have at their disposal.  I'd say that this is the default security for this soul, the ability to "soldier on" through life with what they have.
As a result, they might have gained certain knowledge about the world and themselves, and developed certain skills. The problem is that this knowledge is limited, but because it has worked for them and is familiar,  they stick to it and might be unwilling to change or broaden their horizons.

Excellent.

Quote2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

The 8th house is about transforming our limitation by merging with something/someone that symbolizes what we need to become, but cannot become solely on our own. At a certain point the tried and tested approach to life of the 2nd house SN person stops to work for one reason or another and a person is forced out of their familiar comfort zone.  They will have to open themselves to others to change their limited self-identity and evolve beyond it. After all, soldier on through life is not the same as living. The 8th house NN prompts a question about their values and resources, why do they value this and not something else, why do they stubbornly cling to this resource and in the process it makes them discover their own, often unconcsious, motivation behind it.

Excellent! You understand the nodal relationship well. Thank you for your work Barbora.

Hi Ari!
Thanks for your last feedback. There are my answers about the Nodes.

Quote
1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

1. People with the South Node in the 2nd house have a very strong need to feel safe physically and, by extension emotionally, since for these people there was a strong connection between these two plans.
To ensure their physical and emotional survival, they learned, through recourse to inner recollection, to identify resources and values that guarantee their self-sufficiency and their self-esteem. Here "having" is being, and they have learned to "have" over many incarnations since they have acquired great abilities to attract to themselves the resources they need, sometimes honestly and sometimes not so much. Often, other people were used and manipulated so that they would obtain the necessary resources, in order to feel safe.

Maybe, maybe not. Generally for manipulation to be a part of it we'd need to see Pluto in the 2nd or Scorpio as the sign in the 2nd house.

Quote
This very limited view of themselves and life led them to go through various experiences, sometimes cataclysmic, where they were confronted with these personal limitations so that they could reevaluate their needs and values as well as the relationships they established with others and with themselves. The awareness of these limitations and their origins led them to change the focus of their motivations, desires, values, and consequently, through the necessary effort, change their patterns of relationship with themselves and with others. These learnings, acquired over many lifetimes, can serve others, namely, those who are going through similar situations of confrontation with what blocks and limits them because they learned how to transform them, learned to cooperate with others to obtain necessary resources both and know what needs to be done to establish self-esteem and self-confidence.

All this is true and there can also be cases with the sn in the 2nd where the soul has lived lifetimes peacefully as a hermit, perhaps a monk or someone that is just very simple. Or a farmer that grows their own food. The implications of cataclysm aren't necessarily there, sometimes the south node can reflect a well integrated identity structure without a lot of strong attachments. Nevertheless, the 8th house nn will still imply evolutionary necessity: you can't stay in one place forever.

Quote2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

When the north node is placed in house 8, individuals with this position will need, cyclically and at all levels, to consciously confront their limits and blocks, and transform them through relationships formed with symbols of power (which can be anything like a concept, an idea, a relationship). Here, they go through experiences where they will have to deal with power, due to what they are or have already experienced, versus impotence, due to the unknown and the inexperienced, which implies the recognition of more powerful external forces. So, consciously, its fusion with these symbols, sources of power, promotes the metamorphosis necessary to overcome these limitations, which have become areas of stagnation preventing growth.
These confrontational experiences promote knowledge about how everything works and why it works that way, whether it be yourself or other people. There is a need to know the reason for things because, in doing so, they understand what prevents growth. This works as a natural magnetism, attracting people who feel they can help them. They learn to make decisions about who to get involved in and what to trust in a relationship, learn to make appropriate choices, which symbolize what they want and need to satisfy their conscious need. Relationships with others can be very valid experiences so that the individual can choose an evolutionary path free of dependencies, manipulations, relational karma and be able to become the symbols of transforming power themselves.

Excellent. Thank you for your work Susana!

Hello Geeta, Julia, Nicole, Rebecca, Akim, Chocolate Astrologer, Linda,
Chengting, Sunflower, Pisces Lady, AnnieK, Gauri, LittleAprilShower, Barbora, Susana! I think the only person yet to post this assignment is Kasia. Let me know if I forgot your name and you'd like more time.

I'd like everyone to review each other's work with my feedback. Often times I didn't give as much feedback to some of you as I did for others because I knew I wrote it somewhere already. So if you read through it you'll catch the places that will add to your existing work.

I'm going to give us till Tuesday to integrate on this step and also see if there's anyone else that I missed who would like to post before we move on. But just so you know: our next step will be to interpet Pluto WITH the south node. I'll be giving this soul an evolutionary stage as well.

Hi Ari,

Thank you for your previous feedback and answers. :)

I hadn't replied to the second assignment till now, here it is:

Quote1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

This Soul is most secure in the area of self-sufficiency. The Soul is aware of his/her own values and needs, and has learned how to provide those for him/herself. Where the Soul can become unhealthily attached to this identity structure would be in his/her own limitations, where the Soul could fixate on what no longer works in the value system or way of being.

Quote2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

The Soul is learning to know itself ever more deeply through expanding limitations by merging/connecting with a source of power outside itself, or connecting in with others rather than staying in isolation. In this way, the Soul will get reflections from others to aid in the process of self-discovery. In order to expand and exponentialize the Soul's potential, the Soul must work to align itself so that the Soul's gifts and inner resources can be of service to the collective. In this way, the Soul can evolve beyond its previous limitations. The Soul can also learn how to identify with a symbol of something greater than itself, in order to create more growth and change through osmosis.

Feeling excited and a little nervous to sink my teeth into the next assignment, combining Pluto and the Nodes.

-Rebecca

Hi Rad,

Thank you for deepening your answer to my question about evolutionary cycles; it's making more sense now. And, I haven't read Structure of the Soul yet. Thank you for that timely suggestion! I have been wondering where I can find out more information along those lines.

Good night,
Rebecca

Hello Ari

Thanks again for your comments. Let me give you some feedback on this last task. It was a little difficult for me to write about the north node in the 8th house and I seriously thought that the first question related to the south node was more accurate. Maybe I have to review the concept better or this difficulty can also be a matter of language because the version I have of Pluto's book is a Portuguese translation that is not good ... I am waiting for the book to arrive in its original version, but until then I will continue to orient myself towards this one.
I would also like to ask a question, which may also have to do with the fact that my first language is not English ... Here is the question. When we talk about 5th house or Leo, creative self-actualization is often referred to. What is the meaning of "actualization", this word refers to the actualization of what? I'm a little confused by this concept if you can help me thank you in advance.
About this work in general, for me, it has been great because it created a guideline to organize me in various concepts. Thank you!

Until Tuesday

Susana Góis

Hi Rebecca,

Quote1. Describe the identity structure of a south node in the 2nd house. What are they familiar with, what is the default security for this soul? Remember that the south node is the most familiar point in the natal chart, so it's our most familiar emotional reference point.

This Soul is most secure in the area of self-sufficiency. The Soul is aware of his/her own values and needs, and has learned how to provide those for him/herself. Where the Soul can become unhealthily attached to this identity structure would be in his/her own limitations, where the Soul could fixate on what no longer works in the value system or way of being.

Quote
2. Describe the way the soul is learning to know itself with the north node in the 8th house? What is the evolutionary growth implied with the north node? Remember that the north node is the point of conscious evolution in our charts and will require the choice to evolve and grow beyond what is safe, known and familiar.

The Soul is learning to know itself ever more deeply through expanding limitations by merging/connecting with a source of power outside itself, or connecting in with others rather than staying in isolation. In this way, the Soul will get reflections from others to aid in the process of self-discovery. In order to expand and exponentialize the Soul's potential, the Soul must work to align itself so that the Soul's gifts and inner resources can be of service to the collective. In this way, the Soul can evolve beyond its previous limitations. The Soul can also learn how to identify with a symbol of something greater than itself, in order to create more growth and change through osmosis.

Excellent work Rebecca! One correction: the idea of "service to the collective" wouldn't relate to the 8th house. The 8th house here would relate to circulating one's resources but it's not inherently about service per se.

Hi Susana,

QuoteThanks again for your comments. Let me give you some feedback on this last task. It was a little difficult for me to write about the north node in the 8th house and I seriously thought that the first question related to the south node was more accurate. Maybe I have to review the concept better or this difficulty can also be a matter of language because the version I have of Pluto's book is a Portuguese translation that is not good ... I am waiting for the book to arrive in its original version, but until then I will continue to orient myself towards this one.

You did just fine on the south node question. And to me the 8th house nn was right on. Especially your undersatnding expressed here:

QuoteThese confrontational experiences promote knowledge about how everything works and why it works that way, whether it be yourself or other people. There is a need to know the reason for things because, in doing so, they understand what prevents growth.

Exactly, because in the 2nd house there's a tendency towards simplicity, not looking beyond the surface of things. Let me know if you have any specific quetsions. The part you spoke about relationship is true as well but maybe you are confusing it a bit with the 7th house? In particular the 8th house is about trust and the soul will be learning about the need for trust, about their own deep fears and vulnerabilities.

QuoteI would also like to ask a question, which may also have to do with the fact that my first language is not English ... Here is the question. When we talk about 5th house or Leo, creative self-actualization is often referred to. What is the meaning of "actualization", this word refers to the actualization of what? I'm a little confused by this concept if you can help me thank you in advance.

Actualization = made actual (as opposed to just potential, or unrealized). Sun/5th house/Leo = actualization of current life purpose. If you have any more questions or would like to explore this further, please start a new thread.

Hi all,

Some qualities of the 2nd house I didn't see mentioned very much that are good for us to be aware of:
Art, grace, beauty, simplicity, sensuality, music, gardening, farming, self-pleasure, qi-gong, contentment, tenacity.

Also what I didn't hear much of is that while this soul may be very resourceful and know how to identify and provide their own needs, it's very possible that this is NOT true. The south node, as a super open ended signature, can imply that we have been very developed in the area of the south node, or come into this life with unresolved karma there. So south node in the 2nd can easily imply a soul that has been lazy and has depended on whatever resources are available, putting little to no effort to resource their own needs.

The archetype of self-interest is also one that Jeff Green spoke about a lot. Self interest is an entirely self-oriented way of looking at life according to "what will life give to me".

Hi Ari,

Thank you for further explanations to the 2nd house archetype and taking care of us.

I feel Taurus need to slow down that can feel their subtle physical feelings and senses, that is quite important for them to ground and stabilize. likewise, when the external confrontations overwhelm them, they just shutdown and refuse to drop any  of them.

Anyway, I appreciate Taurus, especially when we confirm what is the essential requirements in our life, then there is nothing to fear or lose. I used to ponder why Buddha is a Taurus(with Scorpio Moon, he was born in full Moon), which is such a dense(unspirituality) and materialized symbol, but Buddhism is highly honoring the qualities of "little desire and contentment", simplify, and seclusion. Inner peace and joy are their ultimate quest. Indeed, "desire" is the key point of Taurus and Scorpio, Buddhism also highly emphasize the law of desire.

I have observed some SN in 2nd house person married with Scorpio, their Scorpio partners take advantage of their resources and largely incremented the value, yes, they usually surprised and shocked. As you said, these people have a tendency of laziness, "So south node in the 2nd can easily imply a soul that has been lazy and has depended on whatever resources are available, putting little to no effort to resource their own needs."

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Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 20, 2020, 01:51 PM
Also what I didn't hear much of is that while this soul may be very resourceful and know how to identify and provide their own needs, it's very possible that this is NOT true. The south node, as a super open ended signature, can imply that we have been very developed in the area of the south node, or come into this life with unresolved karma there. So south node in the 2nd can easily imply a soul that has been lazy and has depended on whatever resources are available, putting little to no effort to resource their own needs.

Ari, this that you're describing could also apply to Pluto signatures? Sorry if it is very much utopic, I just thought that maybe it was still in time to ask this things, even though we were talking about nodes and not so much about Pluto anymore.

As I write previously, I have the placement of Pluto in the second house, in my natal chart. But i've always felt quite a dependency towards others, and a deep lack of self-value. Not just towards my own body, but towards my personality, as a whole. It's just now that I'm slowly managing to change this, so in a way I have this feeling that it seemed like.. I was in debt to my Pluto lessons, as if... I have come to this life needing to first learn the second house pluto lessons, to only them learn the 8th house lessons. Since only after I started to focus in developing my self-value and self-relience, my life started to apparently change for better, being the more visible change the way people started to treat me (a manifestation of the 8th house PPP, I suppose). When I'm not treating myself well, for example avoiding my own desires, is as if they could feel energetically (and they certainly do, since we all comunicate through energy levels) and just start manifesting this in reality treating me badly, with the same lack of respect.

It can indeed occur, cases in which the person not necessarily have managed to learn in the correct way the lessons showed by Pluto? In the case of Pluto 2nd house, being someone that have a sense of inner poverty? Or this situation that I describe is more possible to be due other factors in the chart and not just Pluto itself?

~ Julia

Hi Ari,

Thank you for the additional info on the 2nd house South Node.  So, if it is possible that the South Node in some way is NOT developed due to laziness/inertia/too narrow of a focus...I imagine in the chart that maybe it would be conjunct another planet in order to signal to the astrologer that a relive situation must happen in order to break out of that?/and also observe correlate with the client and ask questions about their upbringing and the themes you mentioned... maybe prior to the 1st Saturn?

Hi Julia,
What you described is very real for a Pluto in the 2nd house soul.

Hi Linda,

QuoteThank you for the additional info on the 2nd house South Node.  So, if it is possible that the South Node in some way is NOT developed due to laziness/inertia/too narrow of a focus...I imagine in the chart that maybe it would be conjunct another planet in order to signal to the astrologer that a relive situation must happen in order to break out of that?/and also observe correlate with the client and ask questions about their upbringing and the themes you mentioned... maybe prior to the 1st Saturn?

Yes, and it's possible to have a re-live situation without any planets on the south node itself. I wouldn't say it's "not developed" but just that there are unresolved karmic tendencies reflecting a psychology of resistance. Sometimes there's a need to resolve these dynamics and yes very often the Saturn cycles are markers set up in the current life for moving through and beyond these unresolved south node dynamics.

Hi everyone!

For our next step we will apply Pluto in the context of the south node in order to understand the underlying desires of the soul that have created it's past lives, and the specific kind of identity structure the soul has created as a vehicle for it's desires.

Pluto is always the "why" behind the south node because every identity has a REASON for the identity. Thus when we look at the south node we need to give context to it by tuning into the underlying evolutionary purpose/necessity inherent in the position of natal Pluto itself. Understanding this relationship is key as no identity exists in a vacuum.

In your analysis of Pluto in the 10th and the south node in the 2nd, please consider the following focus questions:

What are the underlying desires of the soul and what kind of human identity has the soul created in the past in order to play out those desires? What are the strengths/inner empowerment the soul may have developed? What are the psychological limitations?

Here is a teaching from Jeff Green where he explains and exemplifies the Pluto south node relationship. From this post:
https://forum.schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/index.php/topic,832.msg16808.html#msg16808 (https://forum.schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/index.php/topic,832.msg16808.html#msg16808)



      What I'd like to do is try to make this as experiential for you this morning as possible, and the way I would like to do that is for all of you to keep your own particular birth chart in your head now as we go through this specific method so you can apply it immediately to your own case.

      This particular method is very sequential; it is very Virgo like, ABC in nature, leading to a very deductive and Virgo-like analysis. In total, you will then find that once you employ this particular methodology--ABC--this will lead to a Pisces kind of awareness, meaning inductive, wherein you can see the whole first and then immediately grasp all the parts.  So it is like going from Virgo to Pisces. Now as we go through this system, when you have questions, please ask me when you have the question, because the intention is to keep this as clear as possible as we are moving through it.

      So the very first way we want to start the system is, of course, with Pluto. This is number one on your list; meaning as we go through this it is going to be like an outline. So we want to start with Pluto. We can ask a Pluto question: Why? And what we have here from a Plutonian point of view, of course, is the direct connection to the Soul, the Soul itself. Now, of course, if we understand this, the Soul is going to create the overall personality structure in any given life that is uniquely orientated to phenomenal reality in such a way that that unique orientation experiences the phenomenal reality in a way that is consistent with the evolutionary intentions and karmic requirement that the Soul has in any given life.

      So we want to locate the natal position of Pluto first by house and sign. What is this going to be demonstrating? We have to remember that the nature of the Soul linked with time and space reality is simultaneously linked with the principle that we call evolution. Evolution is a dynamic in time and space reality that is beyond debate. The simplest way to know evolution: Is it not true that everybody on this planet, everyone in this room, inwardly always has an inner feeling of being in a continuous state of becoming? Who does not have such a feeling? So you can see right away just through normal life experience that this is a principle, a truth if you will, that applies to all people everywhere as long as we are living in time-space reality.

      Now, if we linked evolution to the principle of the Soul, we ask a logical question: What is, in fact, the inner mechanism or dynamic within the Soul that causes evolution? The answer is straightforward, simple, and basic as most natural truths are. The answer is, in fact, the very same answer that came out of the enlightenment of the famous Buddha under the famous Bodhi tree, when he pondered the nature of sorrow and pain, misery and the like. What was actually promoted in Buddhism terms as Nirvana was based on the awareness within him called desire.

      In each Soul there are two competing and antithetical desires that create evolution. One desire is a separating desire, meaning to separate away from what we can call God. And these sorts of desires are many, myriad, manifesting in typical ways as the desire for the new lover, the new possession, the new career ambition, whatever.  All Souls have these desires, and simultaneous with the desire and coequal to it is the desire to return to that which has created the Soul in the first place.  So, in effect, the essence of the evolution of the Soul is simply based on the progressive elimination (Pluto) of all separating desires to the exclusion of only one desire which can remain, which is to unite with the source of the Soul itself.

      This is a very simple natural truth that operates independent of what we call astrology and can be validated by every single one of us in this room. In fact, it can be validated by everybody on earth.  The simplest way to know it, again: Is not true that we can have whatever separating desire, oh we want this new thing over here, this, that or whatever, and we may have the ability to obtain that which we are desiring, and, of course, we have a momentary sense of satisfaction when we get it. But once we get it, what soon replaces the sense of satisfaction is, in effect, the sense of dissatisfaction, the sense of something more. It is exactly the sense of dissatisfaction that is mirroring and echoing this ultimate desire to return and to reunite with the source of all things. Who of you has not known this to be your own experience? You see, it is universal.

       So the evolution of the Soul is simply based on the progressive elimination of all separating desires. The duality of these antithetical desires is intrinsic within the Soul and is what the psychologists call the basis of free choice.

      Now, when we look at the nature of the natal position of Pluto, we are looking at two simultaneous phenomena, which is why we are starting with this number A on our Virgo list.  Number one, it will describe very succinctly the types of desires that the soul has had prior to the current life, relative to its evolutionary necessities, its evolutionary intentions.  That does not mean, by the way, that that is going to correlate or reflect all the prior lives that the Soul has had. The point is that the soul in any given life will only draw upon specific prior life times that have a direct connection to or bearing on the current life evolutionary intentions. The Sanskrit archetype for that is called Prarabdha Karma.

      So, what the natal position of Pluto is demonstrating is the specific prior lifetimes and orientations that have direct bearing on the current lifetime. A simple example: What if we are dealing with a ninth house Pluto individual?  We can make a very simple Piscean/ Virgo deduction that this would have been a Soul who, prior to the current life, one way or another, was desiring to understand its individual connection to the cosmological reality we call the universe, meaning natural desires to understand philosophy and cosmology and metaphysics, religion (even if that's atheism), anything that is a form of philosophy connected to the cosmos. Are we clear? Good.

      And now what would that mean coming into the current life? And this is one of the secrets about Pluto that most people don't realize, i.e. when you read it in your happy books that it somehow connects to compulsion, obsession, defensiveness, resistance to change and all these things, and these things are accurate, but they never tell you why, and it is because at this point Pluto is going to correlate with the deepest sources of your unconscious sense of security. Keeping in mind that security is a function of self-consistency. Self-consistency is a function of the past, meaning what has come before. Again, how many of you would totally and wholly embrace the experience of absolute insecurity? No takers? Hmm? Ever wonder why we have compulsion, obsession? That's what psychologists call repetitive compulsion.

      So by looking at the natal position of Pluto (house and sign), beyond the metaphysical point of view, you are describing in anybody's life the sources that correlate with the deepest sense of unconscious security in the person. And in coming into the current life, the person instinctually gravitates to those sources in order to maintain a sense of self-consistency equaling security. Now clearly, if the soul stayed right there, there would, in fact, be no evolution. So this becomes a first point to examine. The next point is to determine how it is that soul is going to grow or evolve in the current life. And the answer very happily is that the next step (evolution) is determined--because we have to remember that we are living in a universe, time/space, that of itself is defined by the law of polarity--by the opposite house and sign of the natal position of Pluto.

      So, following our example of the ninth house, it is, of course, naturally in opposition to the third house. Now, one of the natural problems in the ninth house/Sagittarius/Jupiter archetype is that it correlates, in essence, with the nature of phenomenal reality in total. And it is the ninth house in any chart--Jupiter/Sagittarius, archetypically natural law-- that creates the awareness in the human organism, in each person, that we are in fact connected to something much larger than just the earth itself. It creates the awareness that we are connected to a solar system, universes, and galaxies. And this sort of natural awareness gives rise to the philosophical questions that all human beings ask: What does it all mean? How are we connected to this thing?

      One of the problems of the ninth house is that it will typically orientate to a portion of the overall truth, and then consider that particular portion to be the total truth, which is why we call it the Billy Graham Archetype, meaning the need to convince and convert other people to your particular point of view. Why? In order to feel secure. This is why in this case we are going to have a have a third house polarity.

       Most of us have already realized in our happy books that Gemini correlates with diversity, yes?  Most of us realized,--particularly for those that find yourself to be Gemini--that Gemini is a happy little sign because you put it in a bookstore, for example, and it is going to go around and do what? It is going to read two pages of this and one page of that, and maybe one right over here, but it is thinking that it is reading everything. And this means that it is trying to understand as much as possible relative to the whole phenomenon called creation. So when you have this polarity point to the ninth house Pluto, you can see the obvious evolutionary intention. The intention of the Soul is to evolve beyond the particular portion-part--of the truth that it has already realized. You understand the point?

      So the Soul is like a computer, and it has its own program and in a typically Plutonian fashion, then, the Soul will actually literally program necessary philosophical confrontations (Pluto), meaning it will attract to itself other individuals that are more philosophically or cosmologically evolved than itself. These people will have the effect of penetrating (Pluto) to the weak link in this person's existing philosophical structure. And by identifying the weak link, well, guess what? That whole structure collapses. And this is induces the Gemini evolutionary intention. Understand the point? I mean we could go on and on, but we only have an hour and a half. So, on our Virgo list we start with Pluto, natal position, polarity point. Any questions on this aspect of it? So, we are clear on this particular point?

      Next step--number B on your Virgo list. We want to, of course, examine the nature of the south node of the moon. Now, why do we want to examine this point? The reason is that the south node of the moon will specifically correlate to the types of egocentric structures that the soul has necessarily created in order to consciously actualize the evolutionary desires or intentions, which have, in fact, preceded the current life.

      That is to say that the moon, the south node of the moon specifically, correlates to what we call the ego. Now take this very seriously because, of course, I realize in astrology land that astrologers can assign the idea or the archetype of the ego to whatever planetary symbolism.  Over the last 10-20 years it has been given to Saturn, Sun or whatever. But in reality in the astrology we do, the ego is specific to the moon. The way you can prove this through natural law is very straightforward. As an example we can understand that the ego is that which correlates with what we can psychologically call a self-image.

      Now, for example, if we make an ego connection to the Sun and we look into the nature of our solar system, of course, the Sun appears to be relatively fixed, does it not? Now, do you feel throughout your life that your own inner self-image has been fixed and constant?  When we compare this to examining the moon and its various phases, you can see the direct link to your own self-image and its evolution. Understand the point?

      So, in effect, the Soul must create a necessary ego to create a self-image of the soul itself. So the south node is the conscious component that the soul generates or creates to actualize the desires that are intrinsic to the soul itself. As a simple example, let's still use our Ninth House Pluto as our example, remembering that the ninth house Pluto is how I want to understand myself in the cosmos, etc. Now when we put the south Node in the seventh house, what are we looking at? We Are looking at a soul who prior to the current life, over a series of recent prior life times, has created egocentric structures that have been actualized through a seventh house archetype. What does it mean?  It's going to mean that the soul has created a series of prior life egos that have been structured in such a way as to initiate a diversity of relationships, (seventh house), who looked like what? Ninth house teacher types. And by initiating this kind of relationships with teacher types, it has been collecting for itself, or attracting to itself, the kind of information that it has desired relative to the ninth house Pluto. You see the link?

      Now, to show you why cookbook astrology is B.S.--I mean wrong--compare this to a ninth house Pluto but put the south node in the first house. You are going to still have the same complex of desires, but what types of personality structure, or egocentric structure has the Soul used that is very different from the seventh house? In the first case you have dependency on an external teacher, but when you put the south node in the first house, in essence, what you now have is a soul who has the same desire structure, but now with this south node in the first house you have an individual who has learned to ask and answer its own questions. You see why cookbook astrology is so wrong?

So in either case you still have a pre-existing orientation to reality. When that ninth house Pluto, south node in the seventh person comes into life she/he will gravitate, as they have prior to the current life, in exactly that way. This is why there is going to be a thing called the north node.  You see the point?  So in this ninth house Pluto/seventh house south node, we have a polarity point in the third house, and we have a north node in the first. So in essence, the north node in this case, the conscious actualization, makes that third house polarity occur, understand my point?

      What that would actually mean in this life as the person begin to emotionally mature (moon) in the current life, is that it progressively would begin to rebel against external teachers, their message and their voices. Because the intention (north node/first house) is that the person is meant to learn to ask and answer its own questions. This is going to create necessary intellectual, philosophical confrontation with external teacher types. You see?

      In the second case, the person has been living in happy splendor, all within themselves in a form of narcissism (south node/first house).  You see my point? So now why are we seeing the north node in the seventh house? They must learn to open up and share themselves with other people and in so doing, in opening up to other people, they are going to attract (third house polarity), you see how it works. You apply this to all charts. You start just this way, A, B on your happy list. Questions? So we have got this down now?

Thank you Ari for the additional insights on the 2nd house.

I remembered after you let me know that knowledge itself is a Sagittarius archetype, not so much 2nd house, that I have Jupiter in my natal 2nd house & Pluto Libra 1st house. Made me laugh a bit.
I suppose *not* projecting will be a big part of my learning and sharing astrology in the future!

Will be reading the responses & feedback from the other posts, much appreciation for this group.

Nicole

In your analysis of Pluto in the 10th and the south node in the 2nd, please consider the following focus questions:

What are the underlying desires of the soul and what kind of human identity has the soul created in the past in order to play out those desires? What are the strengths/inner empowerment the soul may have developed? What are the psychological limitations?

The underlying desire of the soul with Pluto in the 10th would indicate that the soul desires to establish its own authority within the society it is incarnating into, by learning the laws, customs, taboos, norms within the society in order to function well within it. With a 2nd house South Node, the souls past human identities have been focused on survival needs within society in a self-reliant way, possibly living more insular lives apart from others. Understanding what it needs as far as resources to survive and learning what it values in order to maintain survival within society, on its own terms and thus establishing its own authority. Learning to listen to its own voice from within, cultivating simplicity, using its own senses to cultivate self pleasure. Possibly a solo artist or musician establishing itself within the career arena. However, there could be a psychology of fixed resistance to authority outside itself because it has learned self-reliance and survival on its own so well that it feels it does not need others, and has no need to to learn to fit in well with society. Vulnerability to others within society may be difficult for this ego due to its established self reliant emotional security pattern. Stubborn ways of being on its own may have crystallized into a structure of too much alone-ness, maybe causing depression or suppression of the emotional body. Thus only seeing a part of themselves, but not the whole. They may have become that frog in the well where they "think" they see the whole picture, when in fact they're only seeing part of the picture due to isolation from society in interest of not losing control of themselves.





     

     


   

   
 

     
     



     

     


       

 
     

   

   

   

Hi Linda,

QuoteThe underlying desire of the soul with Pluto in the 10th would indicate that the soul desires to establish its own authority within the society it is incarnating into, by learning the laws, customs, taboos, norms within the society in order to function well within it. With a 2nd house South Node, the souls past human identities have been focused on survival needs within society in a self-reliant way, possibly living more insular lives apart from others.
Understanding what it needs as far as resources to survive and learning what it values in order to maintain survival within society, on its own terms and thus establishing its own authority. Learning to listen to its own voice from within, cultivating simplicity, using its own senses to cultivate self pleasure. Possibly a solo artist or musician establishing itself within the career arena.

However, there could be a psychology of fixed resistance to authority outside itself because it has learned self-reliance and survival on its own so well that it feels it does not need others, and has no need to to learn to fit in well with society.

Vulnerability to others within society may be difficult for this ego due to its established self reliant emotional security pattern. Stubborn ways of being on its own may have crystallized into a structure of too much alone-ness, maybe causing depression or suppression of the emotional body. Thus only seeing a part of themselves, but not the whole. They may have become that frog in the well where they "think" they see the whole picture, when in fact they're only seeing part of the picture due to isolation from society in interest of not losing control of themselves.

Excellent work. One clarification/correction: The notion of "not fitting into society" wouldn't be implied here as that archetype would specifically relate more to Uranus/11th house/ Aquarius. Or possibly even Sag (wild, undomesticated). What is implied is that they have deeply internalized what they need to be, who they need to be in order to actualize their authority. One example of this is a soul who starts a family which creates a deep pressure within the soul to provide (2nd house) for their family and fulfil their evolutionary requirement to be a parent (10th house). This creates a deeply internal and lonely place of isolation where the possibility of falling into a grove of patterning (2nd house) of just doing what is needed to survive the way the soul knows. But there might be a depression and lack of real joy here too.

This then further implies the possibility for addictions to sex, sugar, self-gratification: 10th house self pressure through the 2nd house orientation towards "feeling good" and avoiding complexity resulting in the soul gravitating towards indulgence, ways to "ground out" and release all the pressure. This of course creates an inner state of isolation - not necessarily from society - but from intimacy, from really letting go of the rigidity, the fixedness and connecting with vulnerability/ sharng their soul with others.

Further this can be a soul deeply involved in society and the structures that have formed as so crystalized that breaking them up would be a challenge for the 2nd house ego structure that doesn't generally want to change unless it's absolutely necessary.

Thank you for your work Linda!

Ari, thank you! Yes that all makes sense to me.  I was feeling those themes you mentioned as well along with what I wrote, last night, but I couldn't get it all out in words. (I have Neptune, Moon, and Mars (ruler of both nodes) in my 3rd house, in Scorpio). I'm really putting effort into trying to speak/communicate what I can deeply feel. That is the hardest part for me in EA because I know in some point in my karmic dynamic I was silenced for it, and this practice is helping me cultivate that again and find my words.  Really deep healing for me. Look forward to the next assignment. :)

Pluto in the 10th, S.node in 2nd

A Soul with Pluto in the 10th house will be defined at a core level by a desire to establish their authority in its social environment. The soul will have had prior lives in which it desires to define its individuality through social function as a way of discovering that which it really is. The 10th house, Capricorn and Saturn correlate with the archetype of the structure nature of our consciousness that the soul determines from life to life as JWG teaches, this then correlates to the reality that the soul chooses to be born into which reflects the ongoing evolutionary intentions, needs and requirements of the soul itself. The nature of this reality or condition reflect the totality of the society, culture, country, religion with country, law, custom, norm, taboo, morality and ethic, etc.. With Pluto located there it indicates that this Soul has learned to find security in social realms by self determination and conformity. In other words thru self discipline or submission to higher authority it will try to fit into some types of mould of what it should or should not be. The Soul has been and is trying to discover its own individuality within the context of society.

This will be the type of individual that has desired positions of social power or status as it has had past lives in which the intention was to establish its own authority within a society. Thus then can creates a character of pragmatism and hypocrisy since the person will always be in a state of seriousness, repression, highly criticism, even to those close, who do not fit into that which the person believes to be right. The person will be interested in self managment, self improvement and can be a natural workaholic and administrator.

It is possible that the person has subconscious traumas of not being accepted by parents, by society in mainstream, which can re-enforce the tendency to be very cautious, rejected and controlled from almost everyone, frequently in a state of depression, bitterness and guilt. Since Pluto in the 10th house finds security by fit into society, in turn others can also imported rejection and false judgment against the 10th house Pluto person, forcing the individual back upon itself in order to analyze its own attitude towards society. The 10th house Pluto individual can create an inner frustration as the other people or the environment can always reject their ambition, this can lead to be aware of maturity and mortality, thus the soul will be force to examine the nature of their reality, The intent in such examination is to determine, Saturn, what needs to be changed in their reality so that growth can occur, what existing dynamics may be in place that are causing some kind of problem or difficulty in their life. In this way, the soul learn to take responsibility of their own life and destiny.

The Soul has its S.node in the second house which will correlate with a Soul that in the past created an egocentric identity that develop their own value system through self reliance. Relative to the 10th house Pluto the person would desire wealth to pursue a life purpose that reflected its sense of ambition and society authority( especially for those consensus stage). The person could have a tendency of tying his/her sense of self value to social conduct, or external standard. Soul may have a deep lack of self value as a result of their highly rigid parents expected the soul to conform to the parental value system . When the soul deviated from these expectations to conform, it was made to feel guilty through the use of judgment. This can create a harmful impact to its inner relationship with itself, cause a deep inner psychological/ emotion emptiness.
As a result, soul may become very intense and authoritarian types who need to assert their own sense of authority in order to feel secure. This can lead a tendency to over accumulate of stuff, social recognize, or anything else to fill up the sense of inner emptiness and insecurity. Another possibility is the Soul has had their own inner sense of value system fractured,or crushed, thus create a condition of self destruction, depression, couldn't realize its ambition or potential which is uttermost important for its ongoing evolution. Soul may project their own value system to society as a way of judgment what is meanful or not. Quite a possibility, Soul would use sex as a way to get to the top, use people for the purpose of serving ulterior needs and desires, moving on shortly after those desires were satisfied. Soul may over materialize, keep its mind narrowing to the earth reality.

Positively, the soul may honor self effort and self realization,focus upon the purpose persistently until it is achieved. Soul may have a natural sense of self esteem that it is reflect the Nature Law of what is right and what is not, will create a vibration of manifesting the archetype of Wise Man, who have a ability to operate with timeless standards of conduct can be inspirational to others, helping with the evolution of collective level.

Hi Ari,

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 19, 2020, 02:08 PM
Hi Little April Shower,

Quote

QuoteBy concentration I mean focus, orientation around. The inner desire nature of the soul is the determinant for life experience. The outer is a reflection of the inner.

Thank you for clarifying - I guess in a sense would it be kind of similar to what Nicole said about the Moon and its nodes essentially acting as the "conditioning" of the Soul, via the emotional body.  I imagine whilst conditioning factors such as those symbolised by Saturn , tend to have an "adding to" quality, the conditioning of the Soul itself via the emotional body is more like a "distillation" or a "reduction" like in cooking, of sorts?  Hence more "concentrated".

I'm not sure - I'd have to think about the words a bit more. I'll say that identity simply follows the lead of the soul, it has no life of it's own. So it's literally just a vehicle for desire. It's possible I'm not 100% follownig your quesiton.

Put another way, the the "conditioning" of the Soul via the emotional body, in the way described above, is referring to the exhaustion - reduction, distillation - of (separating) desires emanating from the Soul, until only the desire to Return to Source remains.  This would imply that within every separating desire, also must exist the antithetical desire to return?  It is only through the experience and exhaustion of separating desires that the Soul progressively comes to know more and more its ultimate and all-encompassing desire to return to Source...

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 19, 2020, 02:08 PM

QuoteWhen I was reading the chapter, I had thought about guilt this but kind of struggled to relate the dynamic of the archetype and the dynamic of guilt and shame together...  Would the result of guilt and shame be an example of how integration of the 4th house polarity point can become distorted, which then causes the dynamics of the 10th house archetype to remain unresolved/perpetuated?  And so then the distorted 4th house dynamics, then become the internally-derived basis for judgements one imposes upon themselves, and by extension others?

The way I'd express this is: unprocessed shame and guilt (which both relate to the 10th house, not the 4th house) result in resistance to evolutionary necessity in that it keeps the soul operating on the same level of consciousness. Unresolved guilt will determine a psychology of either beleiving oneself to be bad and thus deserving of punishment and the need to atone/find ways to play out that sense of being bad, or it will result in the soul hiding away it's inner sense of being bad and constantly living in the fear that others will perceive them according to their own internalized self-judgments. Or both and more. In all cases the 4th house: self intimacy, is avoided and thus the soul does not go beyond/integrate this surface psychology of shame and guilt and remains entrapped by it. One of the key pieces of the 4th house PPP is the need for safety in order to access all the places that had otherwise been pushed away or repressed.

Okay thank you for clarifying.  To ask a bit differently, would guilt and shame - although they relate specifically to the 10th house - be the cumulative result of all previous unresolved/unprocessed 10th house to 4th house integration that has occurred in the past?  I am just struggling to understand how guilt and shame through only applying to the 10th house, is then in this sense separated from the 4th house and its association with the self-image.

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 19, 2020, 02:23 PMExcellent, you understand the nodal relationship very well. One point I'll add is that the sn in the 2nd can point to an identity structure that has become so identified with materialistic values that it is either indulgent in self-gratification, hording/ never letting go of what it identifies as a necessary resource (even if it really isn't), seeking pleasure on purely instinctive basis resulting in putting no effort towards really cultivating and sustaining one's own life. And thus the 8th house can reflect confrontations with the impermanence of all things it values or has identified as a necessary resource. This can be utterly shocking to the soul but also catalyze profound growth.
Thank you for your work LAS!

Upon re-reading this it came to me this 2nd house dynamic occurs due to the potential lack or integration of the 8th house polarity... the Soul needs/requires confrontation of its value systems to really know what it values and to know the essential "worth" of its value system.  Through lack of external confrontation and also external sources of power - and therefore the intensity and internal awakening quality these experiences offer - the desire to experience on a deeper level becomes stronger and stronger, but as the Soul does not want to risk the stability/security it has established, it aims to still fulfil this need through via the means it is most familiar with, i.e. the senses, the physical, etc.  But as a personal sense of meaning has not been deeply and authentically established, there is no real sense of limitations, boundaries, etc. - a knowledge of which is a requirement for development of self-sufficiency and self-reliance.  It is almost as if the Soul tries to merge beyond what it is personally and physically able to... due to actual physical/physiological limitation (food, material items, etc.) and personally in the sense of the "frog in the well" syndrome, as well as lack a truer/deeper sense of self-sufficiency/self-reliance.  The 8th house essentially awakens the Soul to where its value systems and capacities for self-sufficiency and self-reliance, are actually limited.

Also 8th house association with deaths/endings... the Soul needs these experiences or at least to experience the threat thereof, in order to learn to truly value itself, especially in the physical sense - its body, self-nourishment, learn what is truly necessary for its survival and what actually is not, etc.

Thank you!

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 21, 2020, 01:51 PM

Pluto is always the "why" behind the south node because every identity has a REASON for the identity. Thus when we look at the south node we need to give context to it by tuning into the underlying evolutionary purpose/necessity inherent in the position of natal Pluto itself. Understanding this relationship is key as no identity exists in a vacuum.

In your analysis of Pluto in the 10th and the south node in the 2nd, please consider the following focus questions:

What are the underlying desires of the soul and what kind of human identity has the soul created in the past in order to play out those desires? What are the strengths/inner empowerment the soul may have developed? What are the psychological limitations?

Pluto 10th south node 2nd.

A Pluto 10th house is learning how to integrate into the larger context of society.  A 2nd house SN may do this by seeking job security (could this be the signature of someone who is a government worker/a 'lifer'?) or using resources at their disposal for survival in their societal context. They may develop skills in order to strengthen their sense of security, develop themselves as a resource, increase their sense of personal worth and their self-esteem. 

This may cause them to over identify with their job and narrow their focus, creating a 'frog in the well' situation.  The opposite may be true, a tendency to isolate so much from society that it blocks out anything from the outside that could disrupt the inner world it has created (?)

This signature may realise their ambitions by having the society/boss reflect back to them that they are doing a great job by promoting them and increasing their wealth.  They also may not have their ambitions realised or be demoted which could lead to a decrease in self esteem, self worth and resources (poverty).  They may give up, withdraw and isolate.  This may lead to an inner orientation of feelings of failure or unworthiness.  They may seek self worth through accumulating stuff (hoarding) and meeting their own needs/self gratification (food and sex).

Would this also be someone who orientates themselves toward identifying a societal need and working towards developing skills/a career to meet that need?

Thanks Ari.

Hi Chengting,

QuotePluto in the 10th, S.node in 2nd

A Soul with Pluto in the 10th house will be defined at a core level by a desire to establish their authority in its social environment. The soul will have had prior lives in which it desires to define its individuality through social function as a way of discovering that which it really is. The 10th house, Capricorn and Saturn correlate with the archetype of the structure nature of our consciousness that the soul determines from life to life as JWG teaches, this then correlates to the reality that the soul chooses to be born into which reflects the ongoing evolutionary intentions, needs and requirements of the soul itself. The nature of this reality or condition reflect the totality of the society, culture, country, religion with country, law, custom, norm, taboo, morality and ethic, etc.. With Pluto located there it indicates that this Soul has learned to find security in social realms by self determination and conformity. In other words thru self discipline or submission to higher authority it will try to fit into some types of mould of what it should or should not be. The Soul has been and is trying to discover its own individuality within the context of society.

This will be the type of individual that has desired positions of social power or status as it has had past lives in which the intention was to establish its own authority within a society. Thus then can creates a character of pragmatism and hypocrisy since the person will always be in a state of seriousness, repression, highly criticism, even to those close, who do not fit into that which the person believes to be right. The person will be interested in self managment, self improvement and can be a natural workaholic and administrator.

The phrasing of self-improvement is more accurate if Virgo is involved, but it's not wrong. Of cousre through the natural earth trine, the 10th house does resonate with anything that relates to growing, building, getting better at something. 10th house can reflect profound self-awareness of the moral and social affects of one's actions/ what "right" action is etc.

QuoteIt is possible that the person has subconscious traumas of not being accepted by parents, by society in mainstream, which can re-enforce the tendency to be very cautious, rejected and controlled from almost everyone, frequently in a state of depression, bitterness and guilt. Since Pluto in the 10th house finds security by fit into society, in turn others can also imported rejection and false judgment against the 10th house Pluto person, forcing the individual back upon itself in order to analyze its own attitude towards society. The 10th house Pluto individual can create an inner frustration as the other people or the environment can always reject their ambition, this can lead to be aware of maturity and mortality, thus the soul will be force to examine the nature of their reality, The intent in such examination is to determine, Saturn, what needs to be changed in their reality so that growth can occur, what existing dynamics may be in place that are causing some kind of problem or difficulty in their life. In this way, the soul learn to take responsibility of their own life and destiny.

The Soul has its S.node in the second house which will correlate with a Soul that in the past created an egocentric identity that develop their own value system through self reliance. Relative to the 10th house Pluto the person would desire wealth to pursue a life purpose that reflected its sense of ambition and society authority( especially for those consensus stage). The person could have a tendency of tying his/her sense of self value to social conduct, or external standard. Soul may have a deep lack of self value as a result of their highly rigid parents expected the soul to conform to the parental value system . When the soul deviated from these expectations to conform, it was made to feel guilty through the use of judgment. This can create a harmful impact to its inner relationship with itself, cause a deep inner psychological/ emotion emptiness.

As a result, soul may become very intense and authoritarian types who need to assert their own sense of authority in order to feel secure. This can lead a tendency to over accumulate of stuff, social recognize, or anything else to fill up the sense of inner emptiness and insecurity. Another possibility is the Soul has had their own inner sense of value system fractured,or crushed, thus create a condition of self destruction, depression, couldn't realize its ambition or potential which is uttermost important for its ongoing evolution. Soul may project their own value system to society as a way of judgment what is meanful or not. Quite a possibility, Soul would use sex as a way to get to the top, use people for the purpose of serving ulterior needs and desires, moving on shortly after those desires were satisfied. Soul may over materialize, keep its mind narrowing to the earth reality.

Some of this is true, some not. What you said about the possibility of having a deep lack of self-value is possible and withdrawing into themself as a result of having deeply conditioned external values/judgments of who to be. This would not imply ths soul would become a very intense and authoritarian type who needs to assert their sense of authority in order to feel secure. 2nd house doesn't relate to that. But filling up on materialistic values as a way to create a sense of fulfilment would relate.

Using sex to get to the top, using people etc, moving on after desires satisifed are not accurate. there's no indication here of manipulating other people's resources or using sex as a way to succeed. The orientation of the 2nd house is self-reliance, self-sufficiency and while that does imply a possible self-interest type of pyschology, all those things you mentioned would be more 8th house than 2nd house since they involve the archetype of manipulation and using for the purposes of gaining power.

What would make more sense ot the 2nd house, relative to the misuse of power with a Pluto in the 10th, would be finding short and easy ways to make money, earn a living, get the job done but not necessarily be connecting with it's own gifts/value or acting ethically. Just surviving and doing what is needed bc it knows how to and it "works" but falling on that and not putting in real effort to grow beyond what comes easy.

QuotePositively, the soul may honor self effort and self realization,focus upon the purpose persistently until it is achieved. Soul may have a natural sense of self esteem that it is reflect the Nature Law of what is right and what is not, will create a vibration of manifesting the archetype of Wise Man, who have a ability to operate with timeless standards of conduct can be inspirational to others, helping with the evolution of collective level.

Great job Chengting, you are on the right track. Where I see you can use support is to really connect with the starting point: that the south node is simply the way the 10th house Pluto desires have been played out. So the main point here is that this is internal, has been learning to determine from within their own self what is necessary in order to proceed with it's evolutionary path. The 2nd hosue here implies tenacity and the possibility of either being a hard worker that applies itself long term and known how to show up day after day. Or it can imply the very opposite: getting stuck in ruts of taking the easy way and not putting forth consistant effort.
If there is manipulation going on (as any Pluto position can imply) how would that express through a 2nd house sn? Likely it would be doing whatever one deems as necessary for their own self-interest, their own personal gain, irregardless of the effects it has on others or the social/ethical implications. The narrowness of the 2nd house can just close it's eyes to all of that.

Hi Little April Shower,

QuoteThis would imply that within every separating desire, also must exist the antithetical desire to return?  It is only through the experience and exhaustion of separating desires that the Soul progressively comes to know more and more its ultimate and all-encompassing desire to return to Source...

There is a difference between desires relevent to our ongoing evolutionary growth vs desires that are in resistance to it. The 10,000 possible life experiences aren't "bad" or a distrcation from our soul path, we each have to walk it and go all the way. So from that point of view, then yes our desires linked to that which is ephemeral are relevant and we will each exhaust them in our own timing.

Otherwise, a seperating desire doesn't necesarily imply the desire to return as it's very very common with Pluto that we will have a soul that perpetuates a state of resistance time and time again, even against the grain of life screaming to move on (evolutionary necessity). This can breed a psychology of victimization which can breed deeper pathologies that will only get worse and worse. Life is designed to support the fulfiment of our desires as well as their exhaustion. This is what the process of evolution and involution refer to. But this is differnet than the actual psychology of resistance which may or may not be exhausted as it does depend upon one's own free will.

QuoteOkay thank you for clarifying.  To ask a bit differently, would guilt and shame - although they relate specifically to the 10th house - be the cumulative result of all previous unresolved/unprocessed 10th house to 4th house integration that has occurred in the past?  I am just struggling to understand how guilt and shame through only applying to the 10th house, is then in this sense separated from the 4th house and its association with the self-image.

4th house relating to self image means that a soul is called upon to form a relationship with their emotions and ultimately learning self-intimacy. So the resistance to that equals the perpetuation of guilt and shame which just crystalizes as a pathology without any self awareness or healing.
Think of another house polarity. 7th house Pluto. 7th house Pluto can struggle with the need to please others. This has nothing to do with the 1st house. 1st house polarity will reflect the attention towards one's individual path regardless of how pleasing it is to others
4th house relates to self-intimacy and connecting with the emotional body instead of tightening up in a state of resistance. Shame is of course an emotion so perhaps that's where you are confused? Emotions can manifest in all the houses - but it's the 4th house in particular that corresponds to where and how we are learning to emotionally integrate our experiences to help it inform our sense of self: safety, integration, connection.

QuoteUpon re-reading this it came to me this 2nd house dynamic occurs due to the potential lack or integration of the 8th house polarity... the Soul needs/requires confrontation of its value systems to really know what it values and to know the essential "worth" of its value system.  Through lack of external confrontation and also external sources of power - and therefore the intensity and internal awakening quality these experiences offer - the desire to experience on a deeper level becomes stronger and stronger, but as the Soul does not want to risk the stability/security it has established, it aims to still fulfil this need through via the means it is most familiar with, i.e. the senses, the physical, etc.  But as a personal sense of meaning has not been deeply and authentically established, there is no real sense of limitations, boundaries, etc. - a knowledge of which is a requirement for development of self-sufficiency and self-reliance.  It is almost as if the Soul tries to merge beyond what it is personally and physically able to... due to actual physical/physiological limitation (food, material items, etc.) and personally in the sense of the "frog in the well" syndrome, as well as lack a truer/deeper sense of self-sufficiency/self-reliance.  The 8th house essentially awakens the Soul to where its value systems and capacities for self-sufficiency and self-reliance, are actually limited.

Also 8th house association with deaths/endings... the Soul needs these experiences or at least to experience the threat thereof, in order to learn to truly value itself, especially in the physical sense - its body, self-nourishment, learn what is truly necessary for its survival and what actually is not, etc.

Excellent! Yes, and it's true that in embracing the north node the soul does in fact find that they become more integrated/conscious in their south node. So in this case a more fulfilling self-reliance and stability is found. What we don't want keeps us from what we do want. And so any resistance to 8th house of course limits the true possibility of contentment and peace that can be found in the 2nd house.

H AnnieK

Quote
Pluto 10th south node 2nd.

A Pluto 10th house is learning how to integrate into the larger context of society.  A 2nd house SN may do this by seeking job security (could this be the signature of someone who is a government worker/a 'lifer'?) or using resources at their disposal for survival in their societal context. They may develop skills in order to strengthen their sense of security, develop themselves as a resource, increase their sense of personal worth and their self-esteem.

Maybe a Gov worker but just from the POV of what you said about seeking job security/ longevity which is very true. That specific form of work however isn't necessarily indicated.

Quote
This may cause them to over identify with their job and narrow their focus, creating a 'frog in the well' situation.  The opposite may be true, a tendency to isolate so much from society that it blocks out anything from the outside that could disrupt the inner world it has created (?)

True about the frog in the well situation. They wouldn't necessarily be isolating from society, but they can absoltuely become incredibly narrow in whatever construct of living/supporting themselves that they know of, THUS limiting thier evolutionary potential to move froward from a deeper inner authority because of their comfort/resistance to budging.

QuoteThis signature may realise their ambitions by having the society/boss reflect back to them that they are doing a great job by promoting them and increasing their wealth.  They also may not have their ambitions realised or be demoted which could lead to a decrease in self esteem, self worth and resources (poverty).  They may give up, withdraw and isolate.  This may lead to an inner orientation of feelings of failure or unworthiness.  They may seek self worth through accumulating stuff (hoarding) and meeting their own needs/self gratification (food and sex).

Excellent, and the key psychology here is that this soul has established a path that it knows works and is familiar with. Remember this extends beyond just the kind of work the soul is doing. Pluto in the 10th is far more reaching than that: it's about evolution and is about the soul living in according to it's inner authority. So this can relate to one's way in life in general. We can have here a farmer that grows food and sells it at the farmers market. They are well respected and trusted for their food and crops. They depend upon their ability to show up consistantly, grow healthy food, that their crops are reliable etc.

QuoteWould this also be someone who orientates themselves toward identifying a societal need and working towards developing skills/a career to meet that need?

Absolutely could be. The identity structure, in the most simplified way of thinking of it, just menas they have been orienting to take it upon themselves, to do it themselves, to be resourceful and self-reliant. So this absolutely can be a soul that figures out ways to meet social needs by drawing upon their own resourcefulness. Or in a differnet way this might be training at a particular skill set to become good at it. Here we would be drawing up on the 2nd house tenacity, longevity, slow and steadiness.

Great work Anniek!

Hi Ari, and greetings everyone!

Ari, will you eventually teach us how to properly synthesise the sign with the house - of any given symbol; Pluto, the PPP and the nodes?
For now should I ignore the sign and focus on understanding the house?
I wonder if I am missing some info here. Seems important to me.

Best, Akim

Hi Akim, yep soon we'll add signs to the house.
For now we are just working with the houses, we don't yet know what signs will be on the houses.

In the Pluto book, the chapters you have read correspond archetypally to a sign and a house (iE Capricorn and the 10th house are the same archetype) but they are DIFFERENT because signs are not the same as houses when it comes down to practical application and interpretation. So for now we are applying all we have read only to houses. We will add the signs later.

Hi Ari,

All the comments you have gave are helpful for me to clarify some confusions between the 2nd house and the 8th house archetype, I am really appreciate your carefulness and wisdom.

Thank you !ðŸ'–

Hello Ari and everyone

Thank you for explaining the word, what I really needed to know was the meaning it has in this context.
I am also grateful for the additional explanations about the nodes and the JWG article for this latest work as it gives us a very practical perspective of the method.
So, here's my answer to the question.

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 21, 2020, 01:51 PM

In your analysis of Pluto in the 10th and the south node in the 2nd, please consider the following focus questions:

What are the underlying desires of the soul and what kind of human identity has the soul created in the past in order to play out those desires? What are the strengths/inner empowerment the soul may have developed? What are the psychological limitations?

A soul who comes to this life with Pluto in the 10th house or Capricorn is oriented to define his individuality and establish his authority in the social context. This evolutionary need, which has been worked on in previous past lives, involves the acquisition of responsibility in the way of acting, self-determination, and self-discipline.
The type of experiences, lived previously, gives common characteristics to people born with this position. Thus, we can say that these individuals are oriented to value social position or status since they are linked to their sense of unconscious physical and emotional security. These individuals learned how society works and how to achieve their ambitions, through the identification of their goals and the development of capacities, such as perseverance and discipline, as well as, by the ability to identify with a profession or skill that brings them recognition.
However, due to the need to integrate into society, they place the validation of their attitudes and behavior on what is external (social) and over which they have no control. Sometimes, they repress certain intrinsic characteristics because they thought they did not agree with what others expect of them. They are unaware that the blockages that arise in their life are often created by themselves. This often leads to situations of abuse of power, when they blame others for the source of these blocks. Or they self-sabotage, depress or resign themselves to the complete lack of power over their life when the blame is attributed to themselves.
To achieve the evolutionary design described above, the soul created a series of ego structures that allowed these individuals to be confronted with their personal limitations and their value systems, to guarantee their ability to survive on all levels (Node South 2th house or Taurus). The relational dynamics that confronted the individual with his limited vision, of life and of himself, made him question and become aware of what resources he needs and where to find them, to acquire self-sufficiency and self-confidence. In doing this exercise, to question themselves internally, to focus their difficulties on their characteristics, consequently, they open a gap in their crystallized identity patterns. This can bring understanding and awareness about the need for external validation and why it forms the basis of your security, as well as the need to look for other forms of internal validation.

Thank you all!

Hi Ari and everyone!

I am very grateful for every response and clarification added to our practice thread.

QuoteIn your analysis of Pluto in the 10th and the south node in the 2nd, please consider the following focus questions:
What are the underlying desires of the soul and what kind of human identity has the soul created in the past in order to play out those desires? What are the strengths/inner empowerment the soul may have developed? What are the psychological limitations?

The natal position of Pluto in the 10th house people have desired social power, authority and high social positions. They had to learn how the society works, about laws, taboos, customs in order to establish their individuality and authority within a culture or a society, how to integrate their own identity, philosophy, within the society. They still have to learn how to be socially responsible for their own actions.
The soul's past lives memories indicated by the south node in the second house, means that this soul learned how to identify their own resources  and develop self sufficiency and self reliance in order to attain the social status and social authority. Some of them have identified themselves with the source of their material identity, only some learned to develop qualities.
The psychological limitations imposed by them selves or due to developing certain qualities because of a limited vision, inertia and laziness, or the withdraw into themselves. On the other side, they may develop over identification with their career or social position or become manipulative and using others, abuse of power.
Believing that physical security brings emotional security, they may have ignored the emotional side of life and of themselves. In order to evolve they have to follow the evolutionary intentions according to Pluto Polarity point in the 8th house and north node in the 4th.

Grateful, Sunflower

What are the underlying desires of the soul and what kind of human identity has the soul created in the past in order to play out those desires?

The underlying desires of a soul with Pluto in the 10th is to discover and establish their identity through social status/purpose and authority.  Their desire to define themselves and find their center of security thru career and or social purpose has created an identity that is focused on self- sustainment and personal value thru attaining social ambitions or social purpose.
 
What are the strengths/inner empowerment the soul may have developed?

This ego has had prior lives of learning self-discipline, a structured approach to attaining goals, and an ability to stay the course when threatened.  They would be developing patience and commitment to attaining their ambitions and would be geared toward success as their understanding of how the world/society works grows.  They are developing self-reliance and self-determination as they face crisis that are sure to arise.

What are the psychological limitations?

With a limited vision and focus on attaining their ambitions, they may plod along in the same manner showing a lack of flexibility while displaying strong ridged boundaries.   Due to their ambition (drive) to succeed (provide them with security,identity,worth), there may be a tendency to manipulate people and or the system to get what they want to sustain themselves and create security and a sense of value.

They could go thru periods of isolation to reestablish a sense of self and hopefully make a connection to a power larger than themselves. Self-reliance is great but it only goes so far.  At some point there will come a reckoning with the limitations of the self-reliance and the material world. 

With the PPP in the 4th and the NN in the 8th this indicates a need to develop the emotional body and they may have issues with emotional repression, fear of losing control, dependencies, depression, ridged standards, and emotional traumas. 

Crisis will throw them back in on themselves for self-examination of their relationships to themselves and others.  These souls need to learn to take responsibility for their lives and re-evaluate the basis of their personal worth and value(s).

I believe that self-worth and personal value could be dependent up reaching their social ambitions making them prey to depression, guilt and/or blame if they are unsuccessful in reaching their goals or attaining their purpose.

Hi Susana,

QuoteA soul who comes to this life with Pluto in the 10th house or Capricorn is oriented to define his individuality and establish his authority in the social context. This evolutionary need, which has been worked on in previous past lives, involves the acquisition of responsibility in the way of acting, self-determination, and self-discipline.

The type of experiences, lived previously, gives common characteristics to people born with this position. Thus, we can say that these individuals are oriented to value social position or status since they are linked to their sense of unconscious physical and emotional security. These individuals learned how society works and how to achieve their ambitions, through the identification of their goals and the development of capacities, such as perseverance and discipline, as well as, by the ability to identify with a profession or skill that brings them recognition.

However, due to the need to integrate into society, they place the validation of their attitudes and behavior on what is external (social) and over which they have no control. Sometimes, they repress certain intrinsic characteristics because they thought they did not agree with what others expect of them.

Expectations of others is 7th house. What you mean to imply are internalied social standards of right and wrong as well as a deep sense of responsibility leading one to feel that they "can't" just relax and are thus entrapped to their inner sense of duty. Others here might be projected authority figures, but this is different than the general need for approval and acceptance that we find in the 7th house.

QuoteThey are unaware that the blockages that arise in their life are often created by themselves. This often leads to situations of abuse of power, when they blame others for the source of these blocks. Or they self-sabotage, depress or resign themselves to the complete lack of power over their life when the blame is attributed to themselves.

To achieve the evolutionary design described above, the soul created a series of ego structures that allowed these individuals to be confronted with their personal limitations and their value systems, to guarantee their ability to survive on all levels (Node South 2th house or Taurus). The relational dynamics that confronted the individual with his limited vision, of life and of himself, made him question and become aware of what resources he needs and where to find them, to acquire self-sufficiency and self-confidence. In doing this exercise, to question themselves internally, to focus their difficulties on their characteristics, consequently, they open a gap in their crystallized identity patterns. This can bring understanding and awareness about the need for external validation and why it forms the basis of your security, as well as the need to look for other forms of internal validation.

The basic relationship between the sn in 2nd and Pluto in the 10th that you express is accurate and I see a little confusion here. You spoke about the south node as a way to to evolve and it sounds almost as if you are speaking about the pluto polarity point (see your last line). A more simple way of thinking of this is simply that the south node is how the soul has engaged and experienced and played out all of the 10th house pluto desires: it is the familiar soul context. So for a 10th house Pluto soul where the evolutionary intention has been about finding authority within by way of exhausting the concern with gain and loss of power and recognition/success relative to external standards, the 2nd hosue south node simply implies what kind of lifetimes we are looking at here: HOW the soul has gone about this 10th house evolutionary intention.

So 2nd house = self reliance. This soul has drawn upon itself to do what is necessary to succeed, to work hard, or in another way has internalized a fixed way of being that reflects a dependence and familiarity with known resources that determine how the soul has gone about the evolutionary intention to evolve through finding inner authority. The empowerment here of course can be that this soul comes into this life with a strong inner reference point for making decisions, determine what is right according to an inner standard. Has the ability to stick with things, see it through. The challenges/ point of resistance here can also be such a fixed personality that the soul is unwilling to introspect and change unhealthy patterns that are just a reflection of the need to self-protect and isolate and do what works, do what it knows. The possibility of working hard to survive, living in survival mode and not necessarily thriving is one example of that. The possibility of becoming so goal oriented that the soul is deeply fixed and set in what it beleives it needs to do to the point that it's all about making money, acheiving what it values and thus creating an inner reality that lacks true joy and satisfaction as well as the ability to really share and let in deeper intimacy.

Great work Susana, thank you for your efforts!

Hi Sunflower,

QuoteThe natal position of Pluto in the 10th house people have desired social power, authority and high social positions. They had to learn how the society works, about laws, taboos, customs in order to establish their individuality and authority within a culture or a society, how to integrate their own identity, philosophy, within the society. They still have to learn how to be socially responsible for their own actions.

All possible and remember not all 10th house Pluto souls have desired social power,authority and high social positions. Also some of these souls are intensely aware of their own social responsibility to the point of an irrational guit.

Quote
The soul's past lives memories indicated by the south node in the second house, means that this soul learned how to identify their own resources  and develop self sufficiency and self reliance in order to attain the social status and social authority. Some of them have identified themselves with the source of their material identity, only some learned to develop qualities.
The psychological limitations imposed by them selves or due to developing certain qualities because of a limited vision, inertia and laziness, or the withdraw into themselves. On the other side, they may develop over identification with their career or social position or become manipulative and using others, abuse of power.
Believing that physical security brings emotional security, they may have ignored the emotional side of life and of themselves. In order to evolve they have to follow the evolutionary intentions according to Pluto Polarity point in the 8th house and north node in the 4th.

Great, your on the right track. The main point you are making here that they have learned to depend upon their own selves. This implies the qualities of tenacity, long term effort, stability, resourcefulness and ability to do what is needed in order to further evolutionary necessity. And also strong identification with physical security. So the self-dependence can be both a gift and an impediment if it's too narrow and if the soul depends on it's known way of surviving as a way to pursue it's fixations on success, social approval, doing what is needed to fulfil one's sense of responsibilty in life. It can be isolating and very lonely too.

Great work Sunflower, thank you for your efforts!

Hi Pisces Lady,

QuoteWhat are the underlying desires of the soul and what kind of human identity has the soul created in the past in order to play out those desires?

The underlying desires of a soul with Pluto in the 10th is to discover and establish their identity through social status/purpose and authority.  Their desire to define themselves and find their center of security thru career and or social purpose has created an identity that is focused on self- sustainment and personal value thru attaining social ambitions or social purpose.

True as one possible expression.

QuoteWhat are the strengths/inner empowerment the soul may have developed?

This ego has had prior lives of learning self-discipline, a structured approach to attaining goals, and an ability to stay the course when threatened.  They would be developing patience and commitment to attaining their ambitions and would be geared toward success as their understanding of how the world/society works grows.  They are developing self-reliance and self-determination as they face crisis that are sure to arise.

Excellent.

QuoteWhat are the psychological limitations?

With a limited vision and focus on attaining their ambitions, they may plod along in the same manner showing a lack of flexibility while displaying strong ridged boundaries.   Due to their ambition (drive) to succeed (provide them with security,identity,worth), there may be a tendency to manipulate people and or the system to get what they want to sustain themselves and create security and a sense of value.

They could go thru periods of isolation to reestablish a sense of self and hopefully make a connection to a power larger than themselves. Self-reliance is great but it only goes so far.  At some point there will come a reckoning with the limitations of the self-reliance and the material world.

With the PPP in the 4th and the NN in the 8th this indicates a need to develop the emotional body and they may have issues with emotional repression, fear of losing control, dependencies, depression, ridged standards, and emotional traumas.

Crisis will throw them back in on themselves for self-examination of their relationships to themselves and others.  These souls need to learn to take responsibility for their lives and re-evaluate the basis of their personal worth and value(s).

I believe that self-worth and personal value could be dependent up reaching their social ambitions making them prey to depression, guilt and/or blame if they are unsuccessful in reaching their goals or attaining their purpose.

Excellent work, all accurate. Thank you for your work Pisces Lady!

Hi everyone, I want to clarify one point about how the archetype of manipulation might show up here since a few of you have spoken to it.

It is possible in the sense that the 2nd house ego structure is self-oriented and thus might entitle itself to do what it deems necessary to acheive the Pluto desires of status, esteem, respect, success or whatever it has fixed as a symbol of power it wants to osmos with.

But this is very different than how we might use the word manipulation if say the south node were in the 8th house. In such a case we would look at the soul manipulating other people on a psychological level for their own purposes. An example of that might be sleeping with the boss, or in another way abusing one's power by using one's authority to psychologically control others.

in the 2nd house it's more about "I'm going to do what I need to do to get what I beleive I need." It's simple and does not involve any kind of psychological orientation towards others unless of course Scorpio was in the 2nd house. It's very physical/survival oriented as opposed to power oriented.

What are the underlying desires of the soul and what kind of human identity has the soul created in the past in order to play out those desires?

The underlying desire of the 10th house Pluto is to establish one's own authority in a society by ways prescribed by that society. Ideally, as I understand it, it is to bring one's own unique talent/power into the big world of other people. 

The 2nd house SN, among other things, means a withdrawal of the person into oneself, so a person is not overly influenced by others, but can develop their own sense of values. And this is what I personally find somewhat contradictory. On one hand there is a desire to be a valid part of the society, on the other hand the withdrawal from others.  I suppose that a kind of human identity that the soul has created in the past depended on the extent to which the values of the society coincided with the values of the soul. Another important thing would be whether the person was accepted by the society or not.
Because if a person accepted the society and its values and was successful then he/she could have achieved a lot and could start to cling to that refusing to acknowledge that there could be more to life than that.
If a person didn't share the society's values, it was probably more difficult to "make it" in the society.  Then the 2nd house could represent something like a safe haven where one could be oneself.  That would probably apply also if the society rejected person's values and there was judgment against the person that comes with the 10th house territory. Anyway, the 10th / 2nd house combination gives me a kind of feeling that there is one alone among many.

What are the strengths/inner empowerment the soul may have developed?

Not being afraid to be on one's own. Perseverance. My guess would also be realism or pragmatism in the sense that the end justifies the means (not necessarily in a bad way.)

What are the psychological limitations?

One psychological limitation could be the inability to see beyond one's achievements and one's position in the society.  Another limitation could stem from the experiences of being judged by the society for who one really is. Then the second house self-isolation serves as a kind of protection for oneself.  And although a person could be well adjusted in a society, the person does not let themselves to be really touched by others and come out of one's shelf. The interaction with others comes from a place of fear where a person is not really touched by others and does not really interact with them.  But in that case, I believe, a person really cannot make an impact upon a society he/she desires. So 4th /8th houses prompt a person to make themselves be open others and not afraid of being vulnerable. 

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 21, 2020, 01:51 PM

In your analysis of Pluto in the 10th and the south node in the 2nd, please consider the following focus questions:

What are the underlying desires of the soul and what kind of human identity has the soul created in the past in order to play out those desires? What are the strengths/inner empowerment the soul may have developed? What are the psychological limitations?

The underlying desires of this soul have been to be successful in integrating themselves into society and thereby achieving security through some kind of social status or power and to experiences being in all kinds of societies, understanding these social structures and developing the ability to successfully function within these structures by learning the relevant themes of responsibility, duty and the patterns of protocols, customs, taboos, laws and regulations etc.

This soul has created identities that are orientated towards being self-sufficient by identifying and using resources effectively (not necessarily effectively..? effective in terms of using them to affect the 10th house desires) (2nd house). These ego structures have been used to create and maintain a stable sense of security through identification with resources that are seen as valuable in respect to the need to be a functional part of society. The soul may have created identities such as a person who is able to feel secure because they are in possession of physical resources that give them a social position, or identifying with skills or talents that give them value, or for someone who is in a spiritual state it may play out as an ego structure that identifies itself as having a 'connection to spirit' that gives them a certain security within a social structure where this is valued.  

Strengths or gifts this soul may have developed in past lives include a steady, patient and diligent work ethic, which would give them an ability to see through long term plans towards reaching and holding social positions or realising achievements which give them social power. They may have a very stable and fixed sense of their own value within society, based on positive experiences within society that came from identifying with themselves as a resource. Or a grounded and stable personality that allows them to carry great responsibilities within society. They may be very apt at recognising the resources at hand in the external reality, or within themselves, and how to use them in order serve a social purpose and thereby be a successful part of their social environment. They could have a natural knack for attracting resources to them which provide them with social power.

The psychological limitations that this will bring into this life may include a rigidity of belief and habit (2nd house) based upon the security need to stick to proven methods from the past (Pluto). The need to be reflected as successful in society, and the experiences the soul has made in previous lifetimes relative to this need, will bring with it a fixed set of protocols or beliefs and therefore limitations, that have been and will be challenged by evolutionary necessity.
The 10th house pluto signifies that there is a strong desire to hold on to identification with society, or with ones value based on the values of the society, and the security that brings. However, the soul will be challenged by confrontations that shake those identities and jeopardise social reputation as a source of security.
The 2nd house South node signifies the limitations of ego structures that draw their sense of security from identifying as self-sufficient and dependent on resources. So a person may be stuck in a fixed ways of living and thinking (2nd house), or holding on to resources, that have served them, so far, to remain secure.
They may be limited not to allow anything new into their lives, not being able to take risks, not being able to collaborate or share resources with others, not allowing new ways of seeing and thinking that challenge their fixed ones or not seeing value in the psychological realms or in exploring anything thats not tangible.
They may be stuck in the rigid rules and policies of society and be fearful of losing respect or losing the resources that win them respect in the eyes of society. They may become loners by alienating others with their rigid or overly self-sufficient ways - that they cannot give up their responsibilities or control.

The PPP in the 4th house signifies a shift from relying on external security (10th house) to developing internal security, from looking to society for affirmation to looking within oneself and to one's emotional world (4th house), wherein lies a sense of security that transcends, and exists independent of, external circumstances.
Evolutionary necessity has brought, and will continue to bring, confrontations that challenge past patterns of relying on society for inner security (10th house) and prompt the soul to become self aware and move in cooperation with evolution towards the PPP in the 4th house.

Hi Barbora,

What are the underlying desires of the soul and what kind of human identity has the soul created in the past in order to play out those desires?

QuoteThe underlying desire of the 10th house Pluto is to establish one's own authority in a society by ways prescribed by that society. Ideally, as I understand it, it is to bring one's own unique talent/power into the big world of other people.

Not necessarily about talent or power into the big world of other people. The core evolutioanry intention ultimately is to realize authirity within the soul itself. This is irregardless of the comings and goings of power/ status/ social position/ recognition/ failing succeeding etc.

The 2nd house SN, among other things, means a withdrawal of the person into oneself, so a person is not overly influenced by others, but can develop their own sense of values. And this is what I personally find somewhat contradictory. On one hand there is a desire to be a valid part of the society, on the other hand the withdrawal from others.  I suppose that a kind of human identity that the soul has created in the past depended on the extent to which the values of the society coincided with the values of the soul. Another important thing would be whether the person was accepted by the society or not.

No contradiciton, in fact the 2nd house is a natural trine (harmonious aspect) to the 10th house archetypally speaking. There is no implication that there would be a withdrawl from society or a necessary conflict in social and personal values.

QuoteBecause if a person accepted the society and its values and was successful then he/she could have achieved a lot and could start to cling to that refusing to acknowledge that there could be more to life than that.

This is true. 10th house desire for social recognition/ success via the sn in the 2nd house: it works for me, I am comfortable here even if I'm not growing any more.

QuoteIf a person didn't share the society's values, it was probably more difficult to "make it" in the society.  Then the 2nd house could represent something like a safe haven where one could be oneself.  That would probably apply also if the society rejected person's values and there was judgment against the person that comes with the 10th house territory. Anyway, the 10th / 2nd house combination gives me a kind of feeling that there is one alone among many.

This woud be very true in the middle of the individuated stages of evolution where there is a need to consciously differentiate oneself from mainstream society. In this case the 2nd house ego structure will draw upon it's values to determine the right way to live, according to their own inner ehtical standards: Pluto in the 10th.

The notion of being a hermit, being alone a lot is of course true because that's the nature of the 2nd house identity. But we can easily have a soul that is incredibly self-reliant and works hard to acheive what they set out to do via the 2nd house capacity for longevity and tenacity.

QuoteWhat are the strengths/inner empowerment the soul may have developed?

Not being afraid to be on one's own. Perseverance. My guess would also be realism or pragmatism in the sense that the end justifies the means (not necessarily in a bad way.)

Yes

Quote
What are the psychological limitations?

One psychological limitation could be the inability to see beyond one's achievements and one's position in the society. 

Yes, and again not just one's acheivments and one's position in society, but the conditions roles the soul plays. This can be a parent that works a 9-5 job to make money to support the family because that's the "right thing to do" and in this way has drawn deeply within themself to persevere and do the work necessary. This might be very functional and provides for the family, but there may be a lot of stress and repressed emotional needs.

QuoteAnother limitation could stem from the experiences of being judged by the society for who one really is. Then the second house self-isolation serves as a kind of protection for oneself.  And although a person could be well adjusted in a society, the person does not let themselves to be really touched by others and come out of one's shelf. The interaction with others comes from a place of fear where a person is not really touched by others and does not really interact with them.  But in that case, I believe, a person really cannot make an impact upon a society he/she desires. So 4th /8th houses prompt a person to make themselves be open others and not afraid of being vulnerable.

This is a possibility but there's no implication in these signatures of the soul being judged for who they really are. That would be accurate if we had the south node in the 11th house for example.

Thank you for your work and efforts Barbora!

Hi Akim,

QuoteThe underlying desires of this soul have been to be successful in integrating themselves into society and thereby achieving security through some kind of social status or power and to experiences being in all kinds of societies, understanding these social structures and developing the ability to successfully function within these structures by learning the relevant themes of responsibility, duty and the patterns of protocols, customs, taboos, laws and regulations etc.

This soul has created identities that are orientated towards being self-sufficient by identifying and using resources effectively (not necessarily effectively..? effective in terms of using them to affect the 10th house desires) (2nd house).

Right, possibly ineffectively in that they may have been trying but not succeeding.

QuoteThese ego structures have been used to create and maintain a stable sense of security through identification with resources that are seen as valuable in respect to the need to be a functional part of society. The soul may have created identities such as a person who is able to feel secure because they are in possession of physical resources that give them a social position, or identifying with skills or talents that give them value, or for someone who is in a spiritual state it may play out as an ego structure that identifies itself as having a 'connection to spirit' that gives them a certain security within a social structure where this is valued.  

All true. One example of this could also just be skills the person has: singing, artistic talent. Or a plot of land that they inherited. (Inheritance in my understanding is 10th house/ Capricorn/ Saturn). In these cases there was no effort to be or become anything, it's just what they have that opened the doors for them. This can be an example of a karmic fruitive condition: fruits from past lives that are ripe now. And the key is not to rest of them for their own sake as of course they will go away at some point.

And to help you out with the spiritual state statment: The 2nd house would reflect an inner contentment and satisfaction in knowing that they have what they need and are thus free of the desire and attachment to grab onto security through concern with success and failure/ social status/ identification with roles and social construct etc, but can stay more concentrated on their eternal soul, knowing that what is meant to be will be. This contentment would reflect a soul who will instinctively do the right thing and rest in their own self, knowing they have what it takes in each situation to follow their own inner compass.

QuoteStrengths or gifts this soul may have developed in past lives include a steady, patient and diligent work ethic, which would give them an ability to see through long term plans towards reaching and holding social positions or realising achievements which give them social power. They may have a very stable and fixed sense of their own value within society, based on positive experiences within society that came from identifying with themselves as a resource. Or a grounded and stable personality that allows them to carry great responsibilities within society. They may be very apt at recognising the resources at hand in the external reality, or within themselves, and how to use them in order serve a social purpose and thereby be a successful part of their social environment. They could have a natural knack for attracting resources to them which provide them with social power.

Excellent.

QuoteThe psychological limitations that this will bring into this life may include a rigidity of belief and habit (2nd house) based upon the security need to stick to proven methods from the past (Pluto). The need to be reflected as successful in society, and the experiences the soul has made in previous lifetimes relative to this need, will bring with it a fixed set of protocols or beliefs and therefore limitations, that have been and will be challenged by evolutionary necessity.
The 10th house pluto signifies that there is a strong desire to hold on to identification with society, or with ones value based on the values of the society, and the security that brings. However, the soul will be challenged by confrontations that shake those identities and jeopardise social reputation as a source of security.
The 2nd house South node signifies the limitations of ego structures that draw their sense of security from identifying as self-sufficient and dependent on resources. So a person may be stuck in a fixed ways of living and thinking (2nd house), or holding on to resources, that have served them, so far, to remain secure.
They may be limited not to allow anything new into their lives, not being able to take risks, not being able to collaborate or share resources with others, not allowing new ways of seeing and thinking that challenge their fixed ones or not seeing value in the psychological realms or in exploring anything thats not tangible.

All true, and to clarify in case anyone misread that - they would be limiting their own selves. 2nd house reflects the psychology of self-isolation.

QuoteThey may be stuck in the rigid rules and policies of society and be fearful of losing respect or losing the resources that win them respect in the eyes of society. They may become loners by alienating others with their rigid or overly self-sufficient ways - that they cannot give up their responsibilities or control.

The PPP in the 4th house signifies a shift from relying on external security (10th house) to developing internal security, from looking to society for affirmation to looking within oneself and to one's emotional world (4th house), wherein lies a sense of security that transcends, and exists independent of, external circumstances.
Evolutionary necessity has brought, and will continue to bring, confrontations that challenge past patterns of relying on society for inner security (10th house) and prompt the soul to become self aware and move in cooperation with evolution towards the PPP in the 4th house.

Great work Akim, you understand the Pluto south node relationship very well.

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 27, 2020, 02:51 AM

QuoteAll true except for the statement that a soul in posession of phsyical resources that gives them social position.
And to help you out with the spiritual state statment: The 2nd house would reflect an inner contentment and satisfaction in knowing that they have what they need and are thus free of the desire and attachment to grab onto security through concern with success and failure/ social status/ identification with roles and social construct etc, but can stay more concentrated on their eternal soul, knowing that what is meant to be will be. This contentment would reflect a soul who will instinctively do the right thing and rest in their own self, knowing they have what it takes in each situation to follow their own inner compass.

Ari, I don't understand why its not true - that there may be an ego structure that is identified with physical resources (2nd house) as a vehicle to establish itself in a society that values physical resources.. The security need is dependent on society (10th house Pluto) right? And if the society the soul is born into places a value on physical resources, then would a 2nd house south node not indicate the potential that the person places their inner security in the resources they possess?

And regarding your point on the 2nd house S. node for someone in the spiritual state - are you saying that someone who is in the spiritual state, by definition, has already transformed the S.node archetype and is able to live out its gifts? Is that one something to consider when discerning a persons evolutionary state?

Thank you Ari,
Best, Akim

Hi Akim,

Quote"All true except for the statement that a soul in posession of phsyical resources that gives them social position."

Ari, I don't understand why its not true - that there may be an ego structure that is identified with physical resources (2nd house) as a vehicle to establish itself in a society that values physical resources.. The security need is dependent on society (10th house Pluto) right? And if the society the soul is born into places a value on physical resources, then would a 2nd house south node not indicate the potential that the person places their inner security in the resources they possess?

You're right. I just modified my original response to you with a new comment.

Quote
And regarding your point on the 2nd house S. node for someone in the spiritual state - are you saying that someone who is in the spiritual state, by definition, has already transformed the S.node archetype and is able to live out its gifts? Is that one something to consider when discerning a persons evolutionary state?

No. There will still be the great likelihood of there being attachments and resistance to evolution through the south node identification.

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 27, 2020, 01:46 PM
Hi Akim,

Quote"All true except for the statement that a soul in posession of phsyical resources that gives them social position."

Ari, I don't understand why its not true - that there may be an ego structure that is identified with physical resources (2nd house) as a vehicle to establish itself in a society that values physical resources.. The security need is dependent on society (10th house Pluto) right? And if the society the soul is born into places a value on physical resources, then would a 2nd house south node not indicate the potential that the person places their inner security in the resources they possess?

You're right. I just modified my original response to you with a new comment.

Quote
And regarding your point on the 2nd house S. node for someone in the spiritual state - are you saying that someone who is in the spiritual state, by definition, has already transformed the S.node archetype and is able to live out its gifts? Is that one something to consider when discerning a persons evolutionary state?

No. There will still be the great likelihood of there being attachments and resistance to evolution through the south node identification.

Ok, thank you!
Akim

Hello, Ari,
thank you for your comments.
I've been reading the posts in this thread and just to summarise briefly:

The most important thing to remember about the 10th house Pluto is:

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 25, 2020, 01:39 PM
... 10th house Pluto soul ... the evolutionary intention has been about finding authority within by way of exhausting the concern with gain and loss of power and recognition/success relative to external standards,

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 22, 2020, 12:27 PM
What is implied is that they have deeply internalized what they need to be, who they need to be in order to actualize their authority. One example of this is a soul who starts a family which creates a deep pressure within the soul to provide (2nd house) for their family and fulfil their evolutionary requirement to be a parent (10th house).

And that the inner authority should not be associated solely with positions of status and power.  Rather, or at least I think, it is an attitude towards the desires of the soul.  So the desires can be various (?) but the attitude of the 10th house Pluto is that these souls want to see them realised in the real world and are willing to make necessary efforts. (As opposed to just daydreaming or living vicariously through others - like a person who dreams about passion and deep emotions but instead going after their heart's desire they write books about them.)  I guess that example could also be 10th house Pluto, just sticking to societal expectations and repressing their true self, but what I want to say is that they know that only they can make their own desires come true, and are willing (compelled?) to follow through.  But, again for various karmic reasons, their efforts might be thwarted. And with the 10th house there are also karmic issues with responsibility (to the point of irrationality).

So, psychological limitations could come from this drive to see things through. Whenever we make a choice we forfeit a lot of other possibilities, and with 10th house Pluto these souls might have come to a point where they simply forfeit too much, e.g. their own emotional needs. Or, because of the huge sense of responsibility, they are unwilling to change because they might feel that everything rests on their shoulders and if they moved, the things would simply start falling apart.

The 2nd house SN supports this follow through attitude by landing self-reliance, tenacity, the ability to identify resources needed but also the ability not be swayed easily by others.  On the other hand, if the 10th house Pluto is more about karmic issues with power/powerlessness - and the soul might experience futility, depression, then I think the 2nd house SN would support also this attitude - with stubbornness, making do with very little, overindulgence as a way to compensate for feeling depressed, etc. Anyway, 2nd house means limited view of self, and this limited view will be changed, one way or the other.

Well, thank you very much for your time and answers,
Barbora

Hi Barbora, some reflections ...

QuoteAnd that the inner authority should not be associated solely with positions of status and power.  Rather, or at least I think, it is an attitude towards the desires of the soul. 

So the desires can be various (?) but the attitude of the 10th house Pluto is that these souls want to see them realised in the real world and are willing to make necessary efforts.

Attitude reflets desire. The point is that it's not necessarily about what one is "doing" per se. Take a woman in Saudi Arabia in early individuated stages. She is born into a repressive society that has many gender oriented rules and restrictions. Reflecting on her core soul evolutionary program, she is impelled to arrive at her own INNER AUTHORITY, an inner compass that determines what is right and wrong. It has nothing to do with what is happening "out there" and what she chooses to do can go in many directions. And sometimes life experience is meant to impress upon our consciousness in certain ways and it might not be about us taking some kind of action just yet. Sometimes life will shift for us when it is time. This can look all kinds of ways and it's important to have a soul-level insight so that we can see the larger evolutionary unfolding beyond the immediacy of the circumstnaces we are observing.

Or a person who has the responsibility to be a mother or a father, this can bring up a core sense of entrapment (entraped, Pluto, by responsibilities 10th house) but through such limitations the soul will learn to live according to their own inner authority and find that they are emopwered enough to make the right choices. This might be an entirely internal process and have nothing to do with "the real world" out there per se.

Quote(As opposed to just daydreaming or living vicariously through others - like a person who dreams about passion and deep emotions but instead going after their heart's desire they write books about them.)  I guess that example could also be 10th house Pluto, just sticking to societal expectations and repressing their true self, but what I want to say is that they know that only they can make their own desires come true, and are willing (compelled?) to follow through.  But, again for various karmic reasons, their efforts might be thwarted. And with the 10th house there are also karmic issues with responsibility (to the point of irrationality).

Yes could be. And if efforts are thwarted it doesn't necessarijly mean the soul should give up or is supposed to be "blocked". Sometimes the evolutionary purpose behind such thwartings is for the soul to determine themselves to do what is necessary and become more empowered. Other times they simply cannot and have to let go of their attachments. No limitations ever exist in a vacuum and the reasons for it can vary. Sometimes the karmic dynamics need to played out for a set time before the soul is ready to move on.

QuoteSo, psychological limitations could come from this drive to see things through. Whenever we make a choice we forfeit a lot of other possibilities, and with 10th house Pluto these souls might have come to a point where they simply forfeit too much, e.g. their own emotional needs. Or, because of the huge sense of responsibility, they are unwilling to change because they might feel that everything rests on their shoulders and if they moved, the things would simply start falling apart.

The 2nd house SN supports this follow through attitude by landing self-reliance, tenacity, the ability to identify resources needed but also the ability not be swayed easily by others.  On the other hand, if the 10th house Pluto is more about karmic issues with power/powerlessness - and the soul might experience futility, depression, then I think the 2nd house SN would support also this attitude - with stubbornness, making do with very little, overindulgence as a way to compensate for feeling depressed, etc. Anyway, 2nd house means limited view of self, and this limited view will be changed, one way or the other.

Excellent, yes well said.

Hi, Ari,
thank you very much for your examples. They helped a lot.
Barbora

Hi all! Let me know if you'd like more time to post this assignment and I'll set the starting point for our next step accordingly. A few of you have gotten in touch with me directly so no need to respond here if you have.

Hi Ari thank you for your answers to my previous questions.. . Will give them some time to mull and digest.

Quote from: ari moshe on Apr 21, 2020, 01:51 PMIn your analysis of Pluto in the 10th and the south node in the 2nd, please consider the following focus questions:

What are the underlying desires of the soul and what kind of human identity has the soul created in the past in order to play out those desires? What are the strengths/inner empowerment the soul may have developed? What are the psychological limitations?

With Pluto in the 10th the individual's subconscious focus and source of security is linked with  any defining/conditioning factors that are temporal in nature, and what experiences of empowerment and disempowerment result from these factors.  These factors include one's gender, ethnicity, socio-cultural background, socio-economic background, as well as whatever norms, customs, laws, in place that either serve or disenfranchise the individual's ability to claim a sense of supremacy and social relevance within the context of the society within which they live and function.  These experiences also induce the awareness of what one needs to achieve and be responsible for in the eyes of society in order to integrate their social purpose on society's terms.  When the individual has not lived up to the standards, or perceived within themselves to not live up to the standards, that society has set in place, there can also result experiences of guilt and shame.  It is through these ongoing experiences however that the soul progressively becomes aware of and accustomed to abilities, capacities, social necessities and laws, that are essentially timeless in nature and not conditional to any particular time and place, but are universal and therefore of service to a greater and more inclusive whole.  It is also through these experiences that the individual will begin to throw off any self-definitions that are temporal or conditioning in nature, progressively awakening to greater more personal and intimate relationship within oneself, that also learns how to love and nurture oneself without any codependency on any external definitions derived from aligning solely to the status quo of society.

With the SN in the 2nd house this particular orientation of social-cultural definitions and conditioning factors relates to the issues of one's personal physical/material security, survival, self-worth, personal resources and their tangible experiences of reality.  The individual with these placements will by default have a tendency to align or measure these issues according to the dictates of the society and culture within which they originate and operate in.  They will have a tendency to be pragmatic, practical, down to earth and materially-oriented to reality, perhaps in such a way to the complete exclusion of anything else that is either considered not essential, relevant, tangible, or deemed worthwhile, especially as related to the overarching values systems dictated by society.  The individual may also come to solely value themselves, their self worth, esteem, value within a socio-economic context, completely according to what the overarching society deems as worthy and relevant to the needs of the whole, to the exclusion of valuing themselves as an individual with their own personal and individual needs whether or not they align with the overarching paradigm.  Alternatively the individual may completely reject what the society dictates is of importance or necessity and chooses to live their life according to their own deeply self focused necessities.

In regards to the issue of social purpose, career, vocation, etc.  the individual may work at developing the required skills necessitated to accomplish and achieve what it desires to achieve in the eyes of society.  The focus has been the realisation and development of one's skills, abilities and personal/inherent resources in order to establish and implement their social purpose.  These values and resources tend to be defined by one's socio-cultural and socio-economic identity and what is considered or defined as a being of value or as a resource by the society/culture of origin.  The individual may also focus on whatever personal characteristic and qualities that can be used as a resource to "get ahead" in society, as well as establishing what kinds of security one's personal definition/identity in the eyes of society may provide.  This may include aspects of self that are particular to their gender, age, ethnicity and whatever inherent resources these aspects of self may provide.  Issues around personal fulfilment in the context of society will also motivate the individual, i.e. whatever kind of fulfilment does operating within the dictates/framework of society provides.

However with SN in the 2nd, this particular orientation suggests a variety of limitations.  The individual's sense of personal responsibly may come to be solely dictated by or limited to only meeting those most "basic" or essential requirements in the eye's of society, and does not factor in other extraneous variables, that are not necessarily pragmatic, tangible or material in nature, for example: the emotional impact that the acquiring these necessities has on oneself and their relationships with others.  This orientation may also result in the exclusion of all that is evaluated as unessential or a threat to the attainment and maintenance of one's social function or sense of supremacy/relevance within society - forging a potentially tyrannical mode of self-reliance, self-sustainment and self-sufficiency.  These limitations lead to a narrowness of experience, Andy his effect on the development of one's value system, personal resources, skills and abilities eventually results in a lack of fulfilment due to a limitation and lack of awareness of other equally important/valuable aspects of self, reality and life.

A singular and narrow focus on how one's socio-cultural and socio-economic background defines oneself produces inherent limitations and stagnation around the development of one's personal resources as well as how one values themselves - their self-esteem.  Other expressions of this narrowness of focus can be that due to the inherent conflict that may exist between one's individual 2nd house nature and the dictates of society/culture within which they live can be the cause of guilt and shame resulting in negative self-esteem, self-worth and relationship with their intrapersonal sexuality.  Alternatively, the soul may actually be so resistant and uncooperative with what society needs from them or what society considers of value, that they completely become self-focused, only providing for themselves.

Eventually the 4th house PPP, actualised via the 8th house NN, suggests opening to evolutionary necessity in order to induce new growth/development within the emotional body/self-image in order to transmute any existing limitations and stagnation in relation to one's sociological function/purpose and any value systems and resources associated.  Through this process the individual will awaken to an awareness of new ways in which personal resources can be used/implemented in order to a serve a sociological function that is of service, support and of necessity to others, and not just the fulfilment of oneself.  On a more personal level, external and interpersonal confrontations will awaken the individual to unfulfilled inner emotional needs that will trigger an awakening to other deeper aspects of self and values of personal responsibility that are not necessarily defined by anything external to individual (society/culture or physical/tangible in nature). But to essential value and fulfilment that can only be found, cultivated and nurtured from within.

By developing, cultivating and nurturing a more loving, personal and intimate relationship with oneself, the soul will learn how to also do so for others and within their social purpose, and will also learn what is truly of value or worth in order to survive, feel safe, secure, comfortable, fulfilled, and of relevance and necessity to society, that is not dictated by social-cultural definitions that are temporal in nature.  These experiences will also allow the individual to cultivate personal resources, skills, capacities and sense of self-worth and esteem that are beyond the physical and tangible, and not dependent upon any external circumstance or definition.  Thereby formulating a deeper, more self-consistent and informed ability for self-reliance and self-sufficiency, that in turn informs a more refined and mature sense of supremacy and one's value in respect to society.

Hi Little April Shower,

QuoteWith Pluto in the 10th the individual's subconscious focus and source of security is linked with  any defining/conditioning factors that are temporal in nature, and what experiences of empowerment and disempowerment result from these factors.  These factors include one's gender, ethnicity, socio-cultural background, socio-economic background, as well as whatever norms, customs, laws, in place that either serve or disenfranchise the individual's ability to claim a sense of supremacy and social relevance within the context of the society within which they live and function.  These experiences also induce the awareness of what one needs to achieve and be responsible for in the eyes of society in order to integrate their social purpose on society's terms.  When the individual has not lived up to the standards, or perceived within themselves to not live up to the standards, that society has set in place, there can also result experiences of guilt and shame.  It is through these ongoing experiences however that the soul progressively becomes aware of and accustomed to abilities, capacities, social necessities and laws, that are essentially timeless in nature and not conditional to any particular time and place, but are universal and therefore of service to a greater and more inclusive whole.  It is also through these experiences that the individual will begin to throw off any self-definitions that are temporal or conditioning in nature, progressively awakening to greater more personal and intimate relationship within oneself, that also learns how to love and nurture oneself without any codependency on any external definitions derived from aligning solely to the status quo of society.

With the SN in the 2nd house this particular orientation of social-cultural definitions and conditioning factors relates to the issues of one's personal physical/material security, survival, self-worth, personal resources and their tangible experiences of reality.  The individual with these placements will by default have a tendency to align or measure these issues according to the dictates of the society and culture within which they originate and operate in. 

Not necessarily - that will be true in consensus stages but Pluto in the 10th doesn't inherently mean this.

QuoteThey will have a tendency to be pragmatic, practical, down to earth and materially-oriented to reality, perhaps in such a way to the complete exclusion of anything else that is either considered not essential, relevant, tangible, or deemed worthwhile, especially as related to the overarching values systems dictated by society.  The individual may also come to solely value themselves, their self worth, esteem, value within a socio-economic context, completely according to what the overarching society deems as worthy and relevant to the needs of the whole, to the exclusion of valuing themselves as an individual with their own personal and individual needs whether or not they align with the overarching paradigm.  Alternatively the individual may completely reject what the society dictates is of importance or necessity and chooses to live their life according to their own deeply self focused necessities.

There we go, nailed it with the last line. The point with Pluto in the 10th house is authority derived from within. So ultimately concern with social constructs and doing well according to them are just a possible phase or part of the journey. It's not reaaly what it's about.

QuoteIn regards to the issue of social purpose, career, vocation, etc.  the individual may work at developing the required skills necessitated to accomplish and achieve what it desires to achieve in the eyes of society.  The focus has been the realisation and development of one's skills, abilities and personal/inherent resources in order to establish and implement their social purpose.  These values and resources tend to be defined by one's socio-cultural and socio-economic identity and what is considered or defined as a being of value or as a resource by the society/culture of origin.  The individual may also focus on whatever personal characteristic and qualities that can be used as a resource to "get ahead" in society, as well as establishing what kinds of security one's personal definition/identity in the eyes of society may provide.  This may include aspects of self that are particular to their gender, age, ethnicity and whatever inherent resources these aspects of self may provide.  Issues around personal fulfilment in the context of society will also motivate the individual, i.e. whatever kind of fulfilment does operating within the dictates/framework of society provides.

However with SN in the 2nd, this particular orientation suggests a variety of limitations.  The individual's sense of personal responsibly may come to be solely dictated by or limited to only meeting those most "basic" or essential requirements in the eye's of society, and does not factor in other extraneous variables, that are not necessarily pragmatic, tangible or material in nature, for example: the emotional impact that the acquiring these necessities has on oneself and their relationships with others.  This orientation may also result in the exclusion of all that is evaluated as unessential or a threat to the attainment and maintenance of one's social function or sense of supremacy/relevance within society - forging a potentially tyrannical mode of self-reliance, self-sustainment and self-sufficiency.  These limitations lead to a narrowness of experience, Andy his effect on the development of one's value system, personal resources, skills and abilities eventually results in a lack of fulfilment due to a limitation and lack of awareness of other equally important/valuable aspects of self, reality and life.

A singular and narrow focus on how one's socio-cultural and socio-economic background defines oneself produces inherent limitations and stagnation around the development of one's personal resources as well as how one values themselves - their self-esteem.  Other expressions of this narrowness of focus can be that due to the inherent conflict that may exist between one's individual 2nd house nature and the dictates of society/culture within which they live can be the cause of guilt and shame resulting in negative self-esteem, self-worth and relationship with their intrapersonal sexuality.  Alternatively, the soul may actually be so resistant and uncooperative with what society needs from them or what society considers of value, that they completely become self-focused, only providing for themselves.

Great, and to refine this. The core issue with self esteem here would be linked to an udnerlying need to succeed and thus take it upon oneself to do it all by oneself. If power is sourced on the outside and the soul is thus always a "failure" or incapable of meeting it's projected external roles, then there will be a strong sense of burden that the soul will take on, leading to isolution via the need to always do everything and to do a good job. On the other hand, a lack of awareness of the effects of one's actions/ self entitelment to do what one wants may result in a life of self gratification, unconcerned with how the means they take to get to the end.

QuoteEventually the 4th house PPP, actualised via the 8th house NN, suggests opening to evolutionary necessity in order to induce new growth/development within the emotional body/self-image in order to transmute any existing limitations and stagnation in relation to one's sociological function/purpose and any value systems and resources associated.  Through this process the individual will awaken to an awareness of new ways in which personal resources can be used/implemented in order to a serve a sociological function that is of service, support and of necessity to others, and not just the fulfilment of oneself.  On a more personal level, external and interpersonal confrontations will awaken the individual to unfulfilled inner emotional needs that will trigger an awakening to other deeper aspects of self and values of personal responsibility that are not necessarily defined by anything external to individual (society/culture or physical/tangible in nature). But to essential value and fulfilment that can only be found, cultivated and nurtured from within.

By developing, cultivating and nurturing a more loving, personal and intimate relationship with oneself, the soul will learn how to also do so for others and within their social purpose, and will also learn what is truly of value or worth in order to survive, feel safe, secure, comfortable, fulfilled, and of relevance and necessity to society, that is not dictated by social-cultural definitions that are temporal in nature.  These experiences will also allow the individual to cultivate personal resources, skills, capacities and sense of self-worth and esteem that are beyond the physical and tangible, and not dependent upon any external circumstance or definition.  Thereby formulating a deeper, more self-consistent and informed ability for self-reliance and self-sufficiency, that in turn informs a more refined and mature sense of supremacy and one's value in respect to society.

You spoke of supremecy a couple times - as long as you mean in terms of character and not in terms of role in society or status because of course those things are not the point.

Excellent work! You understand the Pluto south node relationship well. And while we're not there yet, your explanation of the ppl and nn in the 8th was also accurate. Thank you for your contribution Little April Shower.

Hi everyone!

I'd like to add the next step. Simply, explain how the north node activates the Pluto polarity point.
We all know how the soul has related to their evolutionary directive. The Pluto in the 10th, through the 2nd house south node says how they have grown, evolved, come to know themselves as well as where they might have a strong point of resistance. It all represents the familiar.

The 8th house north node is the point of conscious evolution: choosing to embrace what is new and unfamiliar. This in turn defacto coincides with the soul activating the Pluto polarity point. This is so because they are inseperable: the ego is a satelite to the soul. The north node is the conscious identity structure that serves as the vehicle for the soul's evolutionary intention.

So lets see if we can really connect with the essence of this relationship as we analyze these two signatures together! For those who are still on the last assignment, feel free to post at your own timing.

Quote from: ari moshe on May 04, 2020, 01:14 AM
Hi everyone!

I'd like to add the next step. Simply, explain how the north node activates the Pluto polarity point.
We all know how the soul has related to their evolutionary directive. The Pluto in the 10th, through the 2nd house south node says how they have grown, evolved, come to know themselves as well as where they might have a strong point of resistance. It all represents the familiar.

The 8th house north node is the point of conscious evolution: choosing to embrace what is new and unfamiliar. This in turn defacto coincides with the soul activating the Pluto polarity point. This is so because they are inseperable: the ego is a satelite to the soul. The north node is the conscious identity structure that serves as the vehicle for the soul's evolutionary intention.

So lets see if we can really connect with the essence of this relationship as we analyze these two signatures together!

Hello everyone,
So we know that 10th house Pluto souls have been trying to establish/bring forward their inner authority into the world.  And how they have fared depended a lot on how well they were able to identify what that inner authority is and where it truly comes from (i.e. soul level). 

This desire has been actualised through 2nd house SN, so we can conclude that, for better or worse, they have gained the ability to rely on themselves, be self-sufficient and to identify the resources they need to survive. However, the 2nd house SN also implies limitations in their value system, the way they relate to themselves and the way they perceive their own reality.

With the 8th house NN, the evolutionary intent is to confront these personal limitations. So progressively they encounter internal and external confrontations, that shake their usual approach to life and make them question their own motivations. This also sheds light on where their sense of security comes from. The evolutionary intent is to reach a place where the sense of their security comes from within themselves and does not depend on external circumstances (PPP in 4th house).
If their sense of security comes from their identification with status and possessions, the 8th house NN can cause the loss of what they possess.  Or they can start feeling dissatisfied and realize that wealth does not make them happy anymore. If, despite all their efforts, they are "failing", the endgame is similar to those who "made it" but feel dissatisfied. With the 8th house NN they reach a point where they start asking themselves why? Why are these things happening to me? Why do I feel the way I feel? What is the meaning of this all? Is this really all there is to it? If they are willing to undergo this inner self-analysis, rather than taking a victim stance, they have a unique opportunity to see that there is so much more to life (both around them and inside them). They change the old limited way in which they related to themselves and reality. They also learn how to unite and share resources (material or their skills, talent) with others while seeing that they do not lose their own self. 

These external and internal confrontations initially jeopardize their sense of security. But withstanding and surviving them in the end make them more empowered.  They learn to see that they are much more resilient that they had previously thought and they might also see what they can do without. Deeper self- knowledge can also shed light on what they are no longer willing to compromise for the sake of others' expectations. The sense of inner security shifts inside which is the original evolutionary intent of the 4th house Pluto polarity point.

The 8th house NN alerts people to awareness of the deeper layers of reality.  In some cases this may also make people part ways with the limited views of the society as such. 
With the 8th house NN and 4th house PPP, the intent for these people is to overcome their own limitations and dependencies, broaden their self-knowledge, and then bring their inner authority back to the world from this new, more empowered place.

As an aside, I have one question.  Say a person decides to react to confrontations from a position of a victim, the 8th house is a water house so it would be a natural reaction to feel that way and even retaliate for perceived injustice.   Will then the 4th house PPP also be activated? Or can that be seen positively since 2nd house implies inertia, could this reaction be seen as positive for the individual if it is a "new" way of dealing with life?  For example, this person can then learn to be a better psychologist to manipulate people easier.  What I mean to say that naturally this path would lead to its own karmic problems, but it would move a person from the stagnating 2nd house. 

Hi Barbora, just want to let you know I'm teaching in an online retreat all week and need to give attention to preparing my talks. I'll be responding to your work latest by Monday! Looking forward.

Quote from: ari moshe on May 04, 2020, 01:14 AM
Hi everyone!

I'd like to add the next step. Simply, explain how the north node activates the Pluto polarity point.
We all know how the soul has related to their evolutionary directive. The Pluto in the 10th, through the 2nd house south node says how they have grown, evolved, come to know themselves as well as where they might have a strong point of resistance. It all represents the familiar.

The 8th house north node is the point of conscious evolution: choosing to embrace what is new and unfamiliar. This in turn defacto coincides with the soul activating the Pluto polarity point. This is so because they are inseperable: the ego is a satelite to the soul. The north node is the conscious identity structure that serves as the vehicle for the soul's evolutionary intention.

So lets see if we can really connect with the essence of this relationship as we analyze these two signatures together! For those who are still on the last assignment, feel free to post at your own timing.

The PPP 4th house polarity point will be activated as the 2nd house South Node moves into the 8th house North Node.  As a refresher, the 2nd house South Node has experience and emotional security via providing/surviving for itself and and understanding what it values to survive. Relating that to the 10th house Pluto, the ego is well versed in providing for itself/family in a way that consensus approves of through a career or family structure...the way "its supposed to be." But the inherent limitation for this Pluto in the 10th is that the soul is looking for its own sense of authority within consensus. And so as the 8th House North Node experiences start coming in, the ego will be emotionally confronted on an internal/external basis on a bottom line psychological and emotional level, in order to move past the limitations of the 2nd house South Node. Those limitations could be inertia, frog in the well, too insular, to self serving in some way. Too much "on its own" and "in a rut". The 8th house will come in and present emotional confrontations where the ego needs to merge with another source of power outside of itself and its established emotional security(2nd house). This source of power could be a soulmate, karma mate, body of knowledge, a business, the occult, something taboo within their consensus...anything outside of itself representing power, that will trigger their emotional bottom line to jump out of the well of the 2nd House. When that 8th House comes in due to the emotional intensity it will bring, the 4th House PPP will be activated to force the soul into its emotional content for the purpose of breaking up the current crystallized boundaries/structures the soul has created for itself in the 10th House. By utilizing the womb of the 4th house to process and feel its emotional content away from the outer world (10th House) as a result of the 8th House North Node intense confrontation, the 4th house PPP has been activated and will serve to evolve the 10th House Pluto out of its outmoded crystallized structure of the past of inertia/stagnant/too much aloneness (2nd House) into a merged expanded consciousness (8th House), thus creating a metamorphosed 10th House Pluto where it can gain it's own authority within consensus, as a result of embracing its emotional content and merging with the outside world in some way.

Hi Ari!

I've been going through some weeks that i've been more busy, due to some personal things, what caused me to disappear a little from this thread. But i'll return soon, posting my comment with the last step, about integrating nn with ppp. I just thought that maybe I should come and write this to justify my absence. ^_^

Hi Barbora, excellent work! You understand the north node as vehicle to the PPP very well.

QuoteAs an aside, I have one question.  Say a person decides to react to confrontations from a position of a victim, the 8th house is a water house so it would be a natural reaction to feel that way and even retaliate for perceived injustice.   Will then the 4th house PPP also be activated? Or can that be seen positively since 2nd house implies inertia, could this reaction be seen as positive for the individual if it is a "new" way of dealing with life?  For example, this person can then learn to be a better psychologist to manipulate people easier.  What I mean to say that naturally this path would lead to its own karmic problems, but it would move a person from the stagnating 2nd house.

Developing the psychology of "victim" does not take the soul out of the 2nd house identificaiton with self-interest. It's just the shadow of the 8th house. This could happen which then serves to teach the soul important lessons about sharing and letting go of identification with what it has. This then could have the affect of triggering the polarity point. Otherwise, by itself it does not activate the pluto polarity point.

Hi Lindabolley,

QuoteThe PPP 4th house polarity point will be activated as the 2nd house South Node moves into the 8th house North Node.  As a refresher, the 2nd house South Node has experience and emotional security via providing/surviving for itself and and understanding what it values to survive. Relating that to the 10th house Pluto, the ego is well versed in providing for itself/family in a way that consensus approves of through a career or family structure...the way "its supposed to be." But the inherent limitation for this Pluto in the 10th is that the soul is looking for its own sense of authority within consensus. And so as the 8th House North Node experiences start coming in, the ego will be emotionally confronted on an internal/external basis on a bottom line psychological and emotional level, in order to move past the limitations of the 2nd house South Node. Those limitations could be inertia, frog in the well, too insular, to self serving in some way. Too much "on its own" and "in a rut". The 8th house will come in and present emotional confrontations where the ego needs to merge with another source of power outside of itself and its established emotional security(2nd house). This source of power could be a soulmate, karma mate, body of knowledge, a business, the occult, something taboo within their consensus...anything outside of itself representing power, that will trigger their emotional bottom line to jump out of the well of the 2nd House. When that 8th House comes in due to the emotional intensity it will bring, the 4th House PPP will be activated to force the soul into its emotional content for the purpose of breaking up the current crystallized boundaries/structures the soul has created for itself in the 10th House. By utilizing the womb of the 4th house to process and feel its emotional content away from the outer world (10th House) as a result of the 8th House North Node intense confrontation, the 4th house PPP has been activated and will serve to evolve the 10th House Pluto out of its outmoded crystallized structure of the past of inertia/stagnant/too much aloneness (2nd House) into a merged expanded consciousness (8th House), thus creating a metamorphosed 10th House Pluto where it can gain it's own authority within consensus, as a result of embracing its emotional content and merging with the outside world in some way.

Excellent work! All really well said. One point of clarification in case it's confusing to anyone and I intuit that you already understand this: I see you wrote a couple times "consensus approves" or "authority within consensus" and just want to clarify that this doen't mean consensus state of evolution of the general consensus of society as a whole - but of course whatever reflects the consensus reality for THAT particular soul which could be anything at all, at any stage of evolution.

Hi Julia,

QuoteHi Ari!

I've been going through some weeks that i've been more busy, due to some personal things, what caused me to disappear a little from this thread. But i'll return soon, posting my comment with the last step, about integrating nn with ppp. I just thought that maybe I should come and write this to justify my absence. ^_^

All good! It seems your not the only one! We'll trust the timing and I'm thinking at this moment that we'll likely move on to the next step next week.

Quote from: ari moshe on May 11, 2020, 01:39 PM
Hi Lindabolley,

QuoteThe PPP 4th house polarity point will be activated as the 2nd house South Node moves into the 8th house North Node.  As a refresher, the 2nd house South Node has experience and emotional security via providing/surviving for itself and and understanding what it values to survive. Relating that to the 10th house Pluto, the ego is well versed in providing for itself/family in a way that consensus approves of through a career or family structure...the way "its supposed to be." But the inherent limitation for this Pluto in the 10th is that the soul is looking for its own sense of authority within consensus. And so as the 8th House North Node experiences start coming in, the ego will be emotionally confronted on an internal/external basis on a bottom line psychological and emotional level, in order to move past the limitations of the 2nd house South Node. Those limitations could be inertia, frog in the well, too insular, to self serving in some way. Too much "on its own" and "in a rut". The 8th house will come in and present emotional confrontations where the ego needs to merge with another source of power outside of itself and its established emotional security(2nd house). This source of power could be a soulmate, karma mate, body of knowledge, a business, the occult, something taboo within their consensus...anything outside of itself representing power, that will trigger their emotional bottom line to jump out of the well of the 2nd House. When that 8th House comes in due to the emotional intensity it will bring, the 4th House PPP will be activated to force the soul into its emotional content for the purpose of breaking up the current crystallized boundaries/structures the soul has created for itself in the 10th House. By utilizing the womb of the 4th house to process and feel its emotional content away from the outer world (10th House) as a result of the 8th House North Node intense confrontation, the 4th house PPP has been activated and will serve to evolve the 10th House Pluto out of its outmoded crystallized structure of the past of inertia/stagnant/too much aloneness (2nd House) into a merged expanded consciousness (8th House), thus creating a metamorphosed 10th House Pluto where it can gain it's own authority within consensus, as a result of embracing its emotional content and merging with the outside world in some way.

Excellent work! All really well said. One point of clarification in case it's confusing to anyone and I intuit that you already understand this: I see you wrote a couple times "consensus approves" or "authority within consensus" and just want to clarify that this doen't mean consensus state of evolution of the general consensus of society as a whole - but of course whatever reflects the consensus reality for THAT particular soul which could be anything at all, at any stage of evolution.

Yep Ari, thank you for the clarification. I could have worded that better :), but yes I do understand that it's the time space reality the ego is existing in, not necessarily the "evolutionary state" of consensus.

Hi everyone and sorry for being late with my answer here. Thank you and looking forward to learning and practicing!

QuoteI'd like to add the next step. Simply, explain how the north node activates the Pluto polarity point.
We all know how the soul has related to their evolutionary directive. The Pluto in the 10th, through the 2nd house south node says how they have grown, evolved, come to know themselves as well as where they might have a strong point of resistance. It all represents the familiar.

The 8th house north node is the point of conscious evolution: choosing to embrace what is new and unfamiliar. This in turn defacto coincides with the soul activating the Pluto polarity point. This is so because they are inseperable: the ego is a satelite to the soul. The north node is the conscious identity structure that serves as the vehicle for the soul's evolutionary intention.

So lets see if we can really connect with the essence of this relationship as we analyze these two signatures together!

The nativity with Pluto in the 10th house learned to establish their own authority, lessons of self discipline, responsibility and self determinations. The South Node in the 2nd house representing his past life structure, indicates their comfort zone, developing self reliance, self sufficiency but all those structures were limiting the evolutionary process. The North Node in the 8th house represents the trajectory for this soul, which is a conscious choice to act beyond known and familiar. This conscious choice indicated by the North Node, activates Pluto polarity point and the new path for this soul will challenge him to confront his limitations, to develop their emotional side, communication and intimacy, sharing and exchanging material possessions, will create the potential for evolutionary growth.
Pluto polarity point in the 4th house being activated, opens a new evolutionary stage where the soul will be more oriented to find emotional security within their bodies, homes, families and creating a self image based on their own new identity which will develop gradually after the soul creates a new ego according to the new evolutionary intentions.

Grateful, Sunfower

Hi Ari,

Here is my try to integrate the NN 8th together with the PPP in the 4th. I must say it was somewhat difficult to write (just like it still is to me to integrate the Pluto with the Nodes in wherever it is), what caused me to managed to write just one example, even though I spent a long time thinking about. Hope it makes sense.

Quote from: ari moshe on May 04, 2020, 01:14 AM
Hi everyone!

I'd like to add the next step. Simply, explain how the north node activates the Pluto polarity point.
We all know how the soul has related to their evolutionary directive. The Pluto in the 10th, through the 2nd house south node says how they have grown, evolved, come to know themselves as well as where they might have a strong point of resistance. It all represents the familiar.

The 8th house north node is the point of conscious evolution: choosing to embrace what is new and unfamiliar. This in turn defacto coincides with the soul activating the Pluto polarity point. This is so because they are inseperable: the ego is a satelite to the soul. The north node is the conscious identity structure that serves as the vehicle for the soul's evolutionary intention.

So lets see if we can really connect with the essence of this relationship as we analyze these two signatures together! For those who are still on the last assignment, feel free to post at your own timing.

With the NN in the 8th house, and the PPP in the 4th, there could be several circumstances occurring throughout the native's life that would serve with the purpose of pointing out how limited his concepts towards certain matters are. It could be the case, for example, of being someone that throughout life develops friendships and relationships with people that differ very much from him - whether because of their life circumstances, whether because of their personality - causing in the native a need to reconsider his concepts, including facing what he considers to be taboo, in order to have a better understanding/a meaningful relationship with these friends/partners.

In this process of re-evaluating his own previous opinions about these people, it could occur to the native to choose (since the NN is a conscious choose) to deepen his processes of self-development by focusing on investigating his own psychological tendencies. Trying to understand why and how these limited perceptions (that make him consider his friends as different, taboo, unusual) have been created.

This example of facing his own limited opinions, and then feeling a need to re-evaluate this opinions could be a way of activating the PPP 4th house because in the process of investigating how his psychological have molded in this and that way, the native could gain a better understanding of his emotional patterns - as well as what have created the emotional patters in the first place - gaining more insight about how childhood and growing up processes have influenced his life as an adult. A step towards a greater self-discovery of his own emotional, reflecting some of the archetypes that the 4th house/cancer/moon represents.

ps.: I hope my example doesn't sound more like Libra/7th house, once again. I thought about mentioning about relationships/friendships as a way to exemplify the Scorpio/8th house archetype of merging with others.

Looking forward to your feedback, tips and advices.

~ Julia

Hi Ari and all,

Sorry for the late response, I sayed I was in and I was postponing it until now, I don't know if I'm late the thread has grown a lot, anyway I will comment my ideas about pluto in the 10th.

A soul that has been working in creating a structure in his being specially in regard to society, desires of conforming to the rules of the environment, to be someone in the world. Finally everything boil down to love, so the love in Capricorn is father love, if you do this I will love you, if you fit to my expectations I will love you, if you achieve if you do if you succeed I will love you. So this soul has been forced by his own desires and environment in to fitting in what the society or family thinks that is right. Because we all share so many south nodes in Capricorn in a way we are all in this game. Laws are not the problem, in fact perseverance is a beautiful quality, but distorted laws yeah that's the mess. Opossite to the arquetype of mothers love (maybe cancer) I will love you for what you are no matter what... The stress of fight for fit in to a distorted way of life and repress all the emotions and things on the way create a huge stagnation and stiffness of energy where the soul feels dry and emotionally arrested with all this emotions boiling down the skin trying to pop up. But the Soul thinks that to feel is wrong and weak so use tremendous amount of energy in keeping it hide. Anyway all this will go out by projections distorsiones and others ways. What is important is the public life, the mask, and the private intimate soul needs to be erased. Is on the way to success and consense. Try hard. Achieve!

Could be that this way of being has been working in others life's for the Soul, and help him to grow, because in many ways achieve, grow, mature ñ, be someone in society, be responsible is very helpful, that's way the Soul find security in to it, if has worked before, will work now. But when we come to pluto may mean that the pattern has been in a situation of overdoing, so the balance with cancer is broken. And has become an obsession, a compulsion. We need to reestablish balance.

The ppp mean come back to the emotional body, observe what has been pushed to the shadow, be aware of how in the childhood the soul has negate his emotions in order to find love from the family, how is still doing it in order to find love from the society, environment, recognition etc. And try to see how has been faking himself in order to fit in to the mask.  A kind of reset from the very beginning having now a new mother, himself. Allowing to be vulnerable, to recover the inner child and liberate all the energy used in repressing it. When this is done the Soul will decompress and the live flow could be recover. The fear will be unconscious if I do it my parents will not love me anymore, and conscious if I do it society will reject me.  But in fact a flowing alive soul will be more capable of any achievement (capricorn) that the compress stiffness of a distorted 10th pluto, so in a way going to cancer is the only way of going to capricorn successfully.

I could talk and talk but I don't want to extend it to Much so I will finish here. I will do my best to read all the thread and comment all the exercises.

Thanks Ari for using your time in helping all of us.

Hello Ari and all

Thank you for your comments in the last post. I apologize for this absence, but sometimes the work gets complicated. About this last question, I still find it difficult to apply the archetypes to the nodes, but I tried to answer as far as I could understand their definition. Look forward to your comments and teachings.
Susana

Quote from: ari moshe on May 04, 2020, 01:14 AM
Hi everyone!

I'd like to add the next step. Simply, explain how the north node activates the Pluto polarity point.
We all know how the soul has related to their evolutionary directive. The Pluto in the 10th, through the 2nd house south node says how they have grown, evolved, come to know themselves as well as where they might have a strong point of resistance. It all represents the familiar.

The 8th house north node is the point of conscious evolution: choosing to embrace what is new and unfamiliar. This in turn defacto coincides with the soul activating the Pluto polarity point. This is so because they are inseperable: the ego is a satelite to the soul. The north node is the conscious identity structure that serves as the vehicle for the soul's evolutionary intention.

So lets see if we can really connect with the essence of this relationship as we analyze these two signatures together! For those who are still on the last assignment, feel free to post at your own timing.

With Pluto's polarity point in house 4, the person with Pluto in house 10, has the evolutionary intention to develop his identity and internal security that is not linked to external factors such as career or social position but based on internal emotional factors. They will learn to identify their emotions and learn to manage them so that they can create a sense of internal security, as well as accept responsibility for their living conditions.
It is through experiences determined by the North Node in 8th, where confrontations or emotional shocks will occur cyclically, internally or externally, that the individual will consciously be able to identify and understand what he lacks and what path of action he must take to overcome these limits, continuing its evolutionary growth. These experiences will occur in the family core and may involve the partner, their parents, or their children. These events can be losses, relational difficulties, judgments, negligence with children, or any other situation that forces an emotionally based self-assessment.
Whether the individual chooses to consciously cooperate with these learnings or resist them, this type of situation will occur in some way. His choice determines the intensity, in this case, proportional to the resistance, as well as how they will happen smoothly or cataclysmically.
Emotional self-analysis will provide an awareness of the individual's identification with certain external factors (career, social position, relationships based on his needs), which lead to an unreliable basis of emotional security, as well as the existence of behavioral patterns, such as emotional repression, which limit his identity and block his evolution.
The individual then becomes able to act by forming a relationship, a merge with symbols of transformative power, representative of his needs or his lacks, so that a metamorphosis of his limitations can occur. With Pluto's polarity point in the 4th, these transforming symbols may be linked to their self-determination, perseverance, or discipline capabilities, that is, linked to their internal qualities, which creates a secure base that is not dependent on external variables.
As this internal security will become established and his self-confidence increases, the expression of his social identity will also happen naturally, thus fulfilling the evolutionary design of a Pluto in house 10.

Hi Sunflower,

QuoteThe nativity with Pluto in the 10th house learned to establish their own authority, lessons of self discipline, responsibility and self determinations. The South Node in the 2nd house representing his past life structure, indicates their comfort zone, developing self reliance, self sufficiency but all those structures were limiting the evolutionary process. The North Node in the 8th house represents the trajectory for this soul, which is a conscious choice to act beyond known and familiar. This conscious choice indicated by the North Node, activates Pluto polarity point and the new path for this soul will challenge him to confront his limitations, to develop their emotional side, communication and intimacy, sharing and exchanging material possessions, will create the potential for evolutionary growth.

Pluto polarity point in the 4th house being activated, opens a new evolutionary stage where the soul will be more oriented to find emotional security within their bodies, homes, families and creating a self image based on their own new identity which will develop gradually after the soul creates a new ego according to the new evolutionary intentions.

Yes, all this is true except communication isn't connected to the 8th house. Good job Sunflower!

Hi Julia,

QuoteWith the NN in the 8th house, and the PPP in the 4th, there could be several circumstances occurring throughout the native's life that would serve with the purpose of pointing out how limited his concepts towards certain matters are. It could be the case, for example, of being someone that throughout life develops friendships and relationships with people that differ very much from him - whether because of their life circumstances, whether because of their personality - causing in the native a need to reconsider his concepts, including facing what he considers to be taboo, in order to have a better understanding/a meaningful relationship with these friends/partners.

Yes this example can be true for sure. More specifically the idea of friends and partners would be indicated by Libra or Aquarius in the 8th house for example.

QuoteIn this process of re-evaluating his own previous opinions about these people, it could occur to the native to choose (since the NN is a conscious choose) to deepen his processes of self-development by focusing on investigating his own psychological tendencies. Trying to understand why and how these limited perceptions (that make him consider his friends as different, taboo, unusual) have been created.

You're clear when it comes to the idea of the soul investigating their own psychological tendencies. And it's true that since we are dealing with a Pluto in the 10th, judgment is likely one of the sticky points for the soul. But how to understand this? Judment here would manifest via fixed values about how they live, what they consider worthy. If we have Virgo on the 2nd house this can be a soul that is highly self cricital and holds themself to higher moral standards that they will never ever reach (virgo 2nd relative to pluto in the 10th). But if we have Leo in the 2nd then we have a soul who is more likely self-entitled and will consider their own needs paramount and worthy.

In the former case, with Pisces in the 8th house then lesson would be forgiveness. Letting go of self perfection and embracing the messiness of not having it all put together, the fact of there being a longing or a desire for something beyond oneself. This breaks down the 10th house Pluto world which is held together in shame and self isolation (via virgo 2nd house). In the latter case, Aquarius in the 8th is about realizing the need to make sure one's way of living doesn't become self-serving and materialistic for it's own ends. Sharing, contributing to the collective, opening to intimacy where they may have been a tendency to stubbornly self-isolate and looking down upon sharing with others/ seeing collaboration and sharing as a threat to their own wealth/ security.

So by itself, jsut with house positions we wouldn't have the indication of seeing his friends as differnet, taboo, unusual. All we would know is there is an evolutionary draw to move into the 8th house: confronting their own psychological limitations and growing via the necessary relationships/experiences that will affectively get them out of their own self created "well".

QuoteThis example of facing his own limited opinions, and then feeling a need to re-evaluate this opinions could be a way of activating the PPP 4th house because in the process of investigating how his psychological have molded in this and that way, the native could gain a better understanding of his emotional patterns - as well as what have created the emotional patters in the first place - gaining more insight about how childhood and growing up processes have influenced his life as an adult. A step towards a greater self-discovery of his own emotional, reflecting some of the archetypes that the 4th house/cancer/moon represents.

Great, except opinions wouldn't apply here. Fixed way of life is different than opinions (gemini).

Quote
ps.: I hope my example doesn't sound more like Libra/7th house, once again. I thought about mentioning about relationships/friendships as a way to exemplify the Scorpio/8th house archetype of merging with others.

There we go - as I wrote above. Relationships ARE releveant in the 8th house but we need to be clear that this is different than the 7th house relationships. 7th house isn't necessarily about accessing our psychological limitations, growing in our self empowerment, facing our deepest fears, evolving, working the the energy of craving and repulsion. 7th house is relationships in general. All kinds of relationships where needs are met and exchanged, balance is learned. 8th house goes deeper and the purpose of any relationship is to evolve. Whereas the 7th house might serve more of a conditional specific purpose.

Great job Julia, thank you for your efforts!

Hi Sunya,

On Pluto in the 10th ...

QuoteA soul that has been working in creating a structure in his being specially in regard to society, desires of conforming to the rules of the environment, to be someone in the world. Finally everything boil down to love, so the love in Capricorn is father love, if you do this I will love you, if you fit to my expectations I will love you, if you achieve if you do if you succeed I will love you. So this soul has been forced by his own desires and environment in to fitting in what the society or family thinks that is right. Because we all share so many south nodes in Capricorn in a way we are all in this game. Laws are not the problem, in fact perseverance is a beautiful quality, but distorted laws yeah that's the mess. Opossite to the arquetype of mothers love (maybe cancer) I will love you for what you are no matter what... The stress of fight for fit in to a distorted way of life and repress all the emotions and things on the way create a huge stagnation and stiffness of energy where the soul feels dry and emotionally arrested with all this emotions boiling down the skin trying to pop up. But the Soul thinks that to feel is wrong and weak so use tremendous amount of energy in keeping it hide. Anyway all this will go out by projections distorsiones and others ways. What is important is the public life, the mask, and the private intimate soul needs to be erased. Is on the way to success and consense. Try hard. Achieve!

All this is true, and remember too that we can have a Pluto in the 10th house that instead of repressing and pushing their own feelings away has an evolutionary lesson to learn regarding self-responsibility and awareness of the effect they have on the world around them. This can be a soul that does what they want, feels entitled to be a tyranical authority figure now matter what the consequences. Kind of like how a kid will lack social awareness, this can be a possibility for Pluto in the 10th as well. I have also often seen this very often in a soul who might be more or less repressed in a social context, but then in their private life there are all tehse unresolved emotional needs that are inappropriately expressed because they don't know how to relate to their own tenderness.

QuoteCould be that this way of being has been working in others life's for the Soul, and help him to grow, because in many ways achieve, grow, mature ñ, be someone in society, be responsible is very helpful, that's way the Soul find security in to it, if has worked before, will work now. But when we come to pluto may mean that the pattern has been in a situation of overdoing, so the balance with cancer is broken. And has become an obsession, a compulsion. We need to reestablish balance.

The ppp mean come back to the emotional body, observe what has been pushed to the shadow, be aware of how in the childhood the soul has negate his emotions in order to find love from the family, how is still doing it in order to find love from the society, environment, recognition etc. And try to see how has been faking himself in order to fit in to the mask.  A kind of reset from the very beginning having now a new mother, himself. Allowing to be vulnerable, to recover the inner child and liberate all the energy used in repressing it. When this is done the Soul will decompress and the live flow could be recover. The fear will be unconscious if I do it my parents will not love me anymore, and conscious if I do it society will reject me.  But in fact a flowing alive soul will be more capable of any achievement (capricorn) that the compress stiffness of a distorted 10th pluto, so in a way going to cancer is the only way of going to capricorn successfully.

I could talk and talk but I don't want to extend it to Much so I will finish here. I will do my best to read all the thread and comment all the exercises.

Great work Sunya, if you'd like, as opposed to doing each step one at a time, you are welcome to jump in at the step we are on since you are already familiar with the ea paradigm. Up to you.

Hi Susana,

QuoteWith Pluto's polarity point in house 4, the person with Pluto in house 10, has the evolutionary intention to develop his identity and internal security that is not linked to external factors such as career or social position but based on internal emotional factors. They will learn to identify their emotions and learn to manage them so that they can create a sense of internal security, as well as accept responsibility for their living conditions.

It is through experiences determined by the North Node in 8th, where confrontations or emotional shocks will occur cyclically, internally or externally, that the individual will consciously be able to identify and understand what he lacks and what path of action he must take to overcome these limits, continuing its evolutionary growth. These experiences will occur in the family core and may involve the partner, their parents, or their children. These events can be losses, relational difficulties, judgments, negligence with children, or any other situation that forces an emotionally based self-assessment.

Can also occur in business, relationships of all kinds, psychic experiences, a draw to explore a path of psychology/soul level experience, an interest in sexuality and the resonance with encounters that will shake them out of their 2nd house.

QuoteWhether the individual chooses to consciously cooperate with these learnings or resist them, this type of situation will occur in some way. His choice determines the intensity, in this case, proportional to the resistance, as well as how they will happen smoothly or cataclysmically.

Yes and also remember sometimes cataclysmic things happen and it doesn't mean the soul is in resistance, it might just mean it's time to move on. Just important not to default judge cataclysm as a sign of resistance. We are all pursing our seperate desires and we are supported to do so - but everything a point. Sometimes its just time to move on and this is the quickest route.

QuoteEmotional self-analysis will provide an awareness of the individual's identification with certain external factors (career, social position, relationships based on his needs), which lead to an unreliable basis of emotional security, as well as the existence of behavioral patterns, such as emotional repression, which limit his identity and block his evolution.

The individual then becomes able to act by forming a relationship, a merge with symbols of transformative power, representative of his needs or his lacks, so that a metamorphosis of his limitations can occur.

With Pluto's polarity point in the 4th, these transforming symbols may be linked to their self-determination, perseverance, or discipline capabilities, that is, linked to their internal qualities, which creates a secure base that is not dependent on external variables.

As this internal security will become established and his self-confidence increases, the expression of his social identity will also happen naturally, thus fulfilling the evolutionary design of a Pluto in house 10.

4th house wouldn't have anything to do with self-determination, perseverence and discipline. Of course that's all 10th house. So this might be where there is confusion. 4th house here says an evolutionary purpose to develop emotional self-intimacy. To know oneself from within. the 8th house might in fact be BREAKING up the existing fixed structures. IE ther emight be a certain degree of self-determination and perseverence but the 8th house asks "if this evolutionary? Or are you just staying in the narrow world you are familiar with". So the 8th house asks the soul to step outside of what it knows and thus re-evaluating it's entire relationship to authority, right/wrong, doing good, their own inner ethics and sense of how to navigate the world. In freeing up any self-posessiveness, self-protection, self-interest, the 8th house teaches the soul "you don't have to HOLD on to your power or to what you perceive as keeping you successful, valued, accomplisehd, good etc. You can let go and there is a soul reality beyond your fixations." Imagine developing a relationship with someone who will bring out fears: fears of loosing control, fears of losing money, fear of failing and not having enough etc. All of these fears can come out in the 8th house where the soul realizes that to have, one must share, one must let go. This is how the 4th house polarity is activated.

Great work Susana! Thank you for your continued efforts.

Simply, explain how the north node activates the Pluto polarity point.

The individual's focus on defining themselves and creating an identity and emotional security in a social role through a self-reliant ego is probably quite capable of achieving their social goals but the extreme focus on manifesting this security has created an individual with limited inner emotional security and emotional connections.  They may be important but not as important as their 10th house unconscious desire to prove themselves thru attaining their desire for security thru the social role.

With an 8th house NN and 4th house PPP, I can see an individual who will be having deep and hopefully effective emotional experiences of empowerment and dis-empowerment that will cause them to question and evolve their present assumptions regarding their (10th)security and (2nd)self-reliance.   Thru experiences of emotional empowerment and dis-empowerment (8th) the individual's definition of self-reliance will come into question as the individual is thrown back upon self (4th) to reflect on the nature of its emotional security (10th)

With the PPP in the 4th and the NN in the 8th this would indicate a need to develop the emotional body. They may have issues with emotional repression, fear of losing control, dependencies, depression, ridged standards, and emotional traumas that need to be examined to develop an inner security and inner self reliance. 

8th house crisis will throw them back in on themselves (4th) for self-examination of their relationships to themselves and others.  Thru this process the limitations of 10th house pluto can be liberated.

Quote from: ari moshe on May 04, 2020, 01:14 AM
I'd like to add the next step. Simply, explain how the north node activates the Pluto polarity point.

Hello everyone, blessings from me.

As this soul grows it will have to transform its fears around leaving its familiar, but restricting, patterns of self-reliance and holding on to resources, situations or ideas that feel comfortable and safe. The soul will feel the pull towards the polarity of the north node in the 8th house; towards surrender to inevitable change, to embrace the breaking down of old patterns and structures, giving in to the deep and unknown waters of emotion, intimacy, interdependence and co-creation within relationship.
If the soul consciously moves towards the archetypes inherent to the 8th house then the PPP in the 4th house will be activated. Because by surrendering the externalised security means, represented by the 10th house Pluto/2nd house S.node, the soul will develop internal structures that give it a sense of security that is independent of external reality.
Embracing the north node in the 8th house may mean letting go of all kinds of societal roles, reputations and comforts (external security) therefore the soul will learn to develop inner security (4th house).

Hi Pisces Lady,

QuoteSimply, explain how the north node activates the Pluto polarity point.

The individual's focus on defining themselves and creating an identity and emotional security in a social role through a self-reliant ego is probably quite capable of achieving their social goals but the extreme focus on manifesting this security has created an individual with limited inner emotional security and emotional connections.  They may be important but not as important as their 10th house unconscious desire to prove themselves thru attaining their desire for security thru the social role.

With an 8th house NN and 4th house PPP, I can see an individual who will be having deep and hopefully effective emotional experiences of empowerment and dis-empowerment that will cause them to question and evolve their present assumptions regarding their (10th)security and (2nd)self-reliance.   Thru experiences of emotional empowerment and dis-empowerment (8th) the individual's definition of self-reliance will come into question as the individual is thrown back upon self (4th) to reflect on the nature of its emotional security (10th)

With the PPP in the 4th and the NN in the 8th this would indicate a need to develop the emotional body. They may have issues with emotional repression, fear of losing control, dependencies, depression, ridged standards, and emotional traumas that need to be examined to develop an inner security and inner self reliance.

8th house crisis will throw them back in on themselves (4th) for self-examination of their relationships to themselves and others.  Thru this process the limitations of 10th house pluto can be liberated.

Excellent work Pisces Lady! You understand the nn ppp relationship very well.

Hi Akim,

QuoteHello everyone, blessings from me.

As this soul grows it will have to transform its fears around leaving its familiar, but restricting, patterns of self-reliance and holding on to resources, situations or ideas that feel comfortable and safe. The soul will feel the pull towards the polarity of the north node in the 8th house; towards surrender to inevitable change, to embrace the breaking down of old patterns and structures, giving in to the deep and unknown waters of emotion, intimacy, interdependence and co-creation within relationship.

If the soul consciously moves towards the archetypes inherent to the 8th house then the PPP in the 4th house will be activated. Because by surrendering the externalised security means, represented by the 10th house Pluto/2nd house S.node, the soul will develop internal structures that give it a sense of security that is independent of external reality.
Embracing the north node in the 8th house may mean letting go of all kinds of societal roles, reputations and comforts (external security) therefore the soul will learn to develop inner security (4th house).

Excellent work Akim! You understand the nn ppp relationship very well.

Hi everyone!

I want to thank everyone for your work and participation in this thread thus far.
Soon we are going to move on to a NEW chart entirely. The reasoning for this is to practice getting solid in these beginning stages before moving on to adding more steps (the signs and planetary rulers).

I think by doing more smaller practices we will grow more as opposed to trying to go all the way in our first round. Anyone who wishes to continue or jump in for the first time is welcome here.

Before we move on I'll share some examples of the chart we have been working with in the next couple days to help us ground our understanding even more.

I think it's a very good idea. Still these days I was reading what you wrote, there in the other thread, the Beginner's Roll Call, about maybe doing another thread, anytime soon. To then include the other members interested in join. And while I was here reading i was already wondering if it would be possible to participate once again, because I still don't trust that much in my ability to simply integrate SN with Pluto, NN with PPP. So to me this decision of you to use another chart came on handy!

Ari, thank you for your guidance and your service.   I feel like I am actually learning how to apply the Pluto material to a chart. 

I also want to thank all the beginners for their posts. Its very helpful to read others posts and their understanding of pluto, PPP, NN and SN and the feedback they receive from Ari.

I'm really excited to start working on more examples. 

Hi everyone!
The only thing I will add about our last paraidgm: Pluto in the 10th, sn in the 2nd nn in the 8th is that this doesn't mean the soul is selfish, doesn't mean they are greedy, doesn't mean all they care about is social success.

It does mean that their constructs will be very narrow linked to a desire to osmose with whatever smybol of social power, success or "doing right" they are identified with.

Example: A farmer who grows food to sell at the market. A storm comes and floods the fields. Relative to the 10th house Pluto: this is a cataclysm linked to a deep sense of "I am a failure becuase I am so strongly identified with succeeding and doing a good job, my family depends on me etc." So the 8th house north node would be linked to embracing impermanence and adopting to change, growing from it. Showing vulnerability and opening to a greater field of life experience beyond the need to figure it out and do it all oneself because of a strong attacment to "doing right".

Many souls with Pluto in the 10th house come into this world with a deep guilt that they have done something wrong. This "wrong" is linked to a violations of what is naturally and internally known as wrong. I.E. abandoning one's natural responsibility as a parent becuase of not wanting to feel entrapped, stuck. This can then create situations in the current life where the soul has to embrace the responsibility and merge with, grow from the very comittments it has otherwise avoided in the past. In the case of a 2nd house sn the fear can be loosing a sense of personal space, not wanting to share or let go of one's own personal world, answering to their own self. The 8th house nn of course breaks all that up by way of the soul facing the immensity of what they have otherwise avoided in the past: emotions they cannot run away from, thus leading them to grow beyond their own limitations and actually evolve.

OK! Tomorrow we will begin our next practice. We will start with analyzing Pluto in a house and it's polarity point by house. For those who are joining in now, please review my posts in the beginning of this thread as well as the beginning of the Pluto book where JWG talks about Pluto and the polarity point.

Feel free to ask any questions at any point!

Hello everyone, for our next practice we will place Pluto in the 12th house. Please read the Pluto in the 12th house section in the Pluto book. You can also listen to my audio teaching with Kristin on this placement on my teachings page: www.arimoshe.com/teachings (http://www.arimoshe.com/teachings)

The 12th house is an archetype that corresponds to the TRUTH. When we look at the truth we are looking at that which is unconditioned, universal, unlimited by any factors of time and space. The placement of Pluto in the 12th house will speak to a soul that is evolving through surrender to divine will: to the truth that is. Thus the soul is gradually exhausting all desires to maintain the illusion of seperation from Source. This means resistance will express by way of the soul choosing to concentrate upon it's illusions of self and reality. These illusions serve to keep the soul safe in living out it's desire to seperate. Like building a sand castle and indefinitely beleiving this sand castle to be real. We can imagine the trauma of disilusionment when the sand castle is washed away. It can feel like one is being betrayed by God. This can lead to intense and dark emotions. Or it can be a catapult to tuen towards God/truth/spirit/Love/the tao and seek to know IT as opposed to one's own incorrect pereptions.

Indiscrimination, be it of who one gets involved with or be it the thoughts one chooses to believe to be real or not, is an issue in the 12th house. This indiscrimination can be correctly applied in understanding the indiscriminate nature of love and truth: it doesn't choose, it's always here now. But indiscrimination can equal getting involved in illusions, saving people, upholding insane ideas and beliefs, trusting others in inappropriate ways etc. So the 6th house polarity point here teaches the evolutionary lesson of discrimination and discernment thus furthering the soul's concentration upon Reality.

We can always think of Pluto as a single focused point of psychological concentration. That's what desire is all about. The more we want something the more it will consume our consciousness. So if this soul deeply desires to know reality, it will remain focused on that. In this focus all the illusions, false perceptions, dream realities it invented will come up and gradually dissolve.

This is a beautiful placement and I feel in general the 12th house is under practiced, so I think it's good to work with this placement.
Take your time and ask any questions you need to in grasping all the elements here.

Quote from: ari moshe on May 04, 2020, 01:14 AM
Hi everyone!

I'd like to add the next step. Simply, explain how the north node activates the Pluto polarity point.
We all know how the soul has related to their evolutionary directive. The Pluto in the 10th, through the 2nd house south node says how they have grown, evolved, come to know themselves as well as where they might have a strong point of resistance. It all represents the familiar.

The 8th house north node is the point of conscious evolution: choosing to embrace what is new and unfamiliar. This in turn defacto coincides with the soul activating the Pluto polarity point. This is so because they are inseperable: the ego is a satelite to the soul. The north node is the conscious identity structure that serves as the vehicle for the soul's evolutionary intention.

So lets see if we can really connect with the essence of this relationship as we analyze these two signatures together!

The write-up and your simple question are lovely. Very helpful in keeping focus when trying to write an answer furthering understanding.

The north node in the 8th house can, as an example, get the person married - marriage may not be something they value per say or feel pressured to form but their own life evolution (life experience, life curve with zigzags and vicissitudes) can create a marriage for them. Or we find that they refer to this aspect of them as something that just happened on it's own without them really foreseeing it (even in intention, yet in consonance with their inner intentions). For our study the significance and functioning of North node and PPP can be seen as acts of voluntary self-extending, self-giving, alliances and merging, that acquire root in life-matter, life-space (courtesy s.node in 2nd resources, and also different from abstract or purported spiritual value(abstract, untenable, un-immediate)). As part of responding to life circumstance that is the north node itself, the person with this signature, would respond to these responses too, thus 'moving into' the 4th house PPP.  Emotional awakening, regeneration and depth, purification of bonding substance, heightened escalation into sacredness of life and the sacred purpose of life could be themes that await in the hearth!

This is just one probable case.  Let's see how I see some track.

Hi Ari!
The 12th house is the most confusing (Pisces, :) to me, so this is great. I guess because Pisces contains everything, it can feel so overwhelming and hard to put into words. Loved how you just broke it down. This practice session is going to help me get a handle on this archetype. I read your description of the 12th house just as Mars in Pisces crossed my descendent into the 7th house today- approaching my Chiron in Pisces in the 7th conjunct my NN in Aries/7th house... and I feel a rebirth of understanding of Pisces coming on, with others practicing with me.

Thanks so much for your time with us!
Linda

Hi Gauri,

QuoteThe north node in the 8th house can, as an example, get the person married - marriage may not be something they value per say or feel pressured to form but their own life evolution (life experience, life curve with zigzags and vicissitudes) can create a marriage for them. Or we find that they refer to this aspect of them as something that just happened on it's own without them really foreseeing it (even in intention, yet in consonance with their inner intentions). For our study the significance and functioning of North node and PPP can be seen as acts of voluntary self-extending, self-giving, alliances and merging, that acquire root in life-matter, life-space (courtesy s.node in 2nd resources, and also different from abstract or purported spiritual value(abstract, untenable, un-immediate)). As part of responding to life circumstance that is the north node itself, the person with this signature, would respond to these responses too, thus 'moving into' the 4th house PPP.  Emotional awakening, regeneration and depth, purification of bonding substance, heightened escalation into sacredness of life and the sacred purpose of life could be themes that await in the hearth!

Oh excellent persepctive! Yes and on the flip side the 8th house can also speak to divorce. The 2nd house, while it's not about marriage, it can simply pertain to the psychology of fixedness in one's way and relative to the 10th house Pluto we can have a soul with a structure of life that includes the partner, the family, the dog, the car etc. This can express in so many forms. But the 8th house can actually mean the END of all of that. Partner dies, divorces, they are cheated on etc etc. The 4th house PPP then would express the soul getting in touch with their emotions: all that has been supressed under the tightly held pattern of living in continuity the soul has been attached to.

Hi everyone, I want to offer a couple examples of Pluto in the 12th house to help us along.

One well known example is Donald Trump. Pluto in Leo in the 12th house. Coming into this life this soul has had the desires for egocentric fame, importance, gradeur - to make himself the most important one. Desire has been linked to becoming all powerful, well known, important. This is Leo in the 12th house. Anything in the 12th house can be thought of where a soul might REPLACE Truth with something that is in fact just an illusion. So with Leo it can easily be "I AM the center of existance" As opposed to God, love, unity being the center of existance.

This desire has bread to psychology of victimiztion relative to experiences of being weakened, unloved, defamed etc. We see Mars is there too and so this has a lot to do wtih war and the psychology of a little boy that needs to assert his will and "win" at all costs. This victimization has lead to the psychology of resistance to evolution: thus electing himself entitled to do whateer is necessary to actualize his desire for absoute power and seeing anyone who is not for him as an enemy.

Trump is an example of a soul who has dug a deep hole in the psychology of resistance. The bottom line of his reality is be more important than God, so to speak. Since this is impossible, becuase nothing but God is real and nothing buy God has meaning, his desire for ultimate self importance becomes a never ending fight to be on top.

Another example of Pluto in the 12th house, this time in Virgo, is Madonna. In my estimate she's transitioning into/ early spiritual stages of evolution. This soul's inner desire is to surrender to a path of refinement that merges her with life beyond the veil and illusion of seperation. She grew up in a strong catholic enviroment and has on her own path been purging the delusions of guilt and imperfection.
She's been a spirtual seeker her whole life and this has very often expressed in her music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79fzeNUqQbQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79fzeNUqQbQ)

Thank you for sharing the charts of Trump and Madonna as examples of 12th house Pluto, Ari. Much appreciated. When it comes to this placement, to some extent I agree with what lindabolley said above - it's a bit confusing to me as well. In my case, I have already perceived that I tend to create some confusion between the scorpio and the pisces archetype, sometimes.

One tip I'm trying to give myself whenever I feel a little confused, and it's actually something I learned in this thread here, is about the great difference one single word, term or metaphor can make when you're explaining or trying to fully integrate an archetype, whatever it is. Using the example of Pisces and Scorpio, that I said that I feel a little confusing sometimes: both can be connected to the idea of going beyond the known, right? But when you use the keywords control and power vs empowerment, for example, you're meaning an Scorpio aspect, and when you use illusion/disillusionment, Pisces. It's the power of a simple term that changes the perspective. These simple details are what are seeming to help me to bring some more clarity...

In this past week I have been paying a more close attention to my own feelings, thoughts, and the latest realizations about myself that I have made, in the past few months. Since you announced that the next study topic would be Pluto in the 12th, I have been trying to analyze, while reading and studying this chapter of the first pluto book, which of these feelings seem to relate to my own pluto placement itself, and which ones seems to resemble to the pluto in house 12th, that is currently exercising its temporary influence due to my latest solar return chart.

One aspect that I identified within myself and that I thought that maybe could resemble (in some extent) to one of the characteristics felt by the Pluto 12th natives so far, based on what Jeff described in his book, is the focus that sometimes these natives can have to put focus excessively on a single characteristic, or aspect of their own personalities, and manifested everything else through that aspect in order to induce a sense of individuality.

So if possible I would like to see if in your opinion, Ari, what I will write bellow could indeed correspond to the Pisces archetype, or if you think it does not.

In my case I thought that maybe this tendency could be seen through something that has been occurring with a certain frequency in the past few months. A tendency to spend some time comparing my actual perception about my life, to the perception I had a few months, or years ago. These comparisons start when it occurs to come to my mind, randomly, some memory of a recent past moment that I have lived. Even if it's pretty simple moments.

For example, let's say that at the end of the year I had spent what I considered to be a very good week. And let's suppose that what made me consider this week as a very good week, was because it was a time that I was experimenting many different cake recipes, getting very excited about doing that. One day after the other doing this thing, which was a brand new thing to me at that time. That week created its emotional imprint, right? The imprint of the motivation, the excitement felt, because it was a moment of a new ability being discovered. But it is indeed an example of a simple event, in comparison to something that anyone could affirm that it's more life-changing, extraordinary. The vast majority of these memories that come out are this way, simple, just like the example of the recipe, that I just brought. But it's sufficient to make my mind start generating thoughts in the style of: "hm, how long have I felt something similar to that?" "hm, and that motivation and joy that I felt these days... was that joy really as intense, as the joy of that other moment, there, months ago?"

These questions are good and useful, certainly, because on the positive side, it helps us to focus on reality, and check if we are creating a life with pleasant moments. But again, a detail changes the perspective of things, and in my case, this has a sense of pessimism. It seems to me to be like... a tendency of wanting to repeat the territory that has already been explored before. With a certain flavor of fear in it, a fear that what has been experienced may not be experienced again, for some reason. Or that maybe what was already felt could be felt in a similar way again only if I act in the very same way that I did at the other time.

With negative memories, the same occurs. I almost obsessively try to find differences between that situation that was perceived as bad, and the current moment, as if in order to "make sure" that the two situations are in fact very different situations, and that it will not repeat.

It seems like a certain degree of distrust about trusting in reality and life, in the natural form it presents itself.

These are thoughts that come, and that soon go, depending on the moment. This has not happened for some time now, for example. But I have had some phases in which these moments occurred with great frequency.

This tendency to compares different moments is something that to some extent already occurred to me, in past years, but it seems to have started to happen much more frequently, and applying to different aspects of life, from the moment it coincided with the solar return chart. As if it got more strong and more impossible to just ignore and to sub estimate, thinking things such as: "Ah, nah, that's may just be the weather influence to our emotions. Maybe I just need to distract myself" and similars.

Do you think it is possible to say, Ari, only by this aspect alone and without analyzing the rest of my chart, that this feeling described could relate in some way to the Pisces archetype? Or is it more of a Cancerian aspect, maybe connected about the lessons of learning to find emotional fulfillment within yourself, without depending on external circumstances?

I hope that hasn't changed the subject much by bringing a personal experience, and I hope that it was not very much confusing and vague, what I tried to explain here. I just try to share these personal experiences whenever possible because I think it seems to facilitate my understanding. It seems easier to me to assimilate the archetypes when I can associate it with any experience that I have actually experienced myself. Maybe with everyone it is like that.

All the tips are much appreciated, as always.

~ Julia

Hello,

I'm new to the thread.
I have received and have watched my first set of DVD's
Was I to receive a transcript also and a list of homework to be completed?
Can I find that information here?
I'm a little confused on how to best go about this.
Do I check into the message board for needed information?
Thank you so much
Brave

Hi,

You should have received all of this upon payment for the DVD course.

Here is a contact link to write to Deva Green about this:

https://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/contact

God Bless, Rad

Hi Julia,

QuoteOne tip I'm trying to give myself whenever I feel a little confused, and it's actually something I learned in this thread here, is about the great difference one single word, term or metaphor can make when you're explaining or trying to fully integrate an archetype, whatever it is. Using the example of Pisces and Scorpio, that I said that I feel a little confusing sometimes: both can be connected to the idea of going beyond the known, right? But when you use the keywords control and power vs empowerment, for example, you're meaning an Scorpio aspect, and when you use illusion/disillusionment, Pisces. It's the power of a simple term that changes the perspective. These simple details are what are seeming to help me to bring some more clarity...

Exactly. I feel there is great importance in being clear, intentional and thoughtful with the words we use. This is one point of great respect I feel for Jeff Green, the words he uses to describe the archetypes, to me, feel really intentional and resonant.

QuoteFor example, let's say that at the end of the year I had spent what I considered to be a very good week. And let's suppose that what made me consider this week as a very good week, was because it was a time that I was experimenting many different cake recipes, getting very excited about doing that. One day after the other doing this thing, which was a brand new thing to me at that time. That week created its emotional imprint, right? The imprint of the motivation, the excitement felt, because it was a moment of a new ability being discovered. But it is indeed an example of a simple event, in comparison to something that anyone could affirm that it's more life-changing, extraordinary. The vast majority of these memories that come out are this way, simple, just like the example of the recipe, that I just brought. But it's sufficient to make my mind start generating thoughts in the style of: "hm, how long have I felt something similar to that?" "hm, and that motivation and joy that I felt these days... was that joy really as intense, as the joy of that other moment, there, months ago?"

These questions are good and useful, certainly, because on the positive side, it helps us to focus on reality, and check if we are creating a life with pleasant moments. But again, a detail changes the perspective of things, and in my case, this has a sense of pessimism. It seems to me to be like... a tendency of wanting to repeat the territory that has already been explored before. With a certain flavor of fear in it, a fear that what has been experienced may not be experienced again, for some reason. Or that maybe what was already felt could be felt in a similar way again only if I act in the very same way that I did at the other time.

I'm not sure. This does feel Pisces to me, but I can also see Cancer in this. For sure it relates to the Moon and Saturn: emotional memories are imprinted in time. And thus attachments to past expierences relative to how they "made" us feel. I can also see the grasping for fulfilment and thus the fear (distrust) that you might not get it - that it is in fact not here now, which is a Neptunian fear.

QuoteWith negative memories, the same occurs. I almost obsessively try to find differences between that situation that was perceived as bad, and the current moment, as if in order to "make sure" that the two situations are in fact very different situations, and that it will not repeat.

It seems like a certain degree of distrust about trusting in reality and life, in the natural form it presents itself.

Yeah realizing that is totally a Pisces thing. Remember the water trinity connets all the water archetypes via the emotional body. In the end we can't purely seperate one from the other. I think that might be why I'm having a hard time answering you in a specific way.

QuoteThese are thoughts that come, and that soon go, depending on the moment. This has not happened for some time now, for example. But I have had some phases in which these moments occurred with great frequency.

This tendency to compares different moments is something that to some extent already occurred to me, in past years, but it seems to have started to happen much more frequently, and applying to different aspects of life, from the moment it coincided with the solar return chart. As if it got more strong and more impossible to just ignore and to sub estimate, thinking things such as: "Ah, nah, that's may just be the weather influence to our emotions. Maybe I just need to distract myself" and similars.

Do you think it is possible to say, Ari, only by this aspect alone and without analyzing the rest of my chart, that this feeling described could relate in some way to the Pisces archetype? Or is it more of a Cancerian aspect, maybe connected about the lessons of learning to find emotional fulfillment within yourself, without depending on external circumstances??

Probably both - I'd have to get more of a direct feel for you or your chart to answer competently. But everything you wrote about Pisces is true. One thing to consider. Pisces is ANY moment. It's anywhere, anytime. So meaning is found the moment you start orienting yourself towards love, truth, miracles, God, meaning, eternity. Not sure if this answered your question!

Quote from: Rad on Jun 04, 2020, 09:55 AM
Hi,

You should have received all of this upon payment for the DVD course.

Here is a contact link to write to Deva Green about this:

https://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/contact

God Bless, Rad

Hello Rad and thank you for your reply.
I had tried the contact link already and am not able to contact without submitting an order and payment.
I will send a note by mail and try my best in the mean time.

Thank you again

Pluto in the 12th

I apologize for the delay in posting.  This post is also somewhat rushed.  I have had some family issues that have arisen and that are ongoing. 

I love this placement.  LOL, I didn't always!!  I have a Gemini SN in the 12th and a 9th house Pisces sun.  So I have some understanding of this archetype and the absolute necessity for the 6th house NN for me and the 6th house PPP for 12th house pluto's.  It's been a pure pleasure to study this material.  While I am using Jeff's work as a guide, this is mostly written from my POV.  I look forward to your feedback and guidance as I am interpreting it from my SN POV. 

12th house Plutos have been learning thru prior lives the lesson that they are not separate from the whole (source) but part of it. They will have evolved some degree of spiritualization during their previous lives and will be moving toward the 6th house PPP.  But with all 12th house pluto placements there is a pull to separate and individuate from the whole and at the same time there exists a thirst, a hunger for wholeness, the desire to be "one of" (merging) rather than "the one" (separating).  They have a deep need to align with a belief system that will encourage them in beliefs and values that are universal in nature which will relieve the sense of alienation and feeling of being lost or missing something.

Over lifetimes their ego-centeredness has been under pressure to evolve into Source-centeredness.  But fear of losing their sense of identity (of losing themselves/falling into the abyss) will drive them to latch onto something/anything of an ego building nature.  These ego building representations could be anything that is temporal regardless of evolutionary state: belief system, the intellect, people, social role, success,alcohol, children, money, a cause etc."¦  They will always fail because not only are these attachments temporary, they are illusions and a poor substitute for the Source which is what the soul really wants.   When these substitutes do fail, the individual will be left facing the four horsemen of terror, bewilderment, frustration and despair.  This is the consequence of defining the ego with that which is limited and defined by time and space.

Even if these individuals attain a dream, or vision of what they desire it is not going to measure up to their unrealistic expectations or their idealized standards and once again they are lost, knowing that they have not found "IT" that which will complete them and make them whole and once again they face the 4 horsemen.

As long as they resist letting go of these illusions, the 4 horsemen will drive these souls into escapism and denial, victimization and martyrdom, judgmentalness and intolerance.  The ticket out lies in aligning with a spiritual practice which encourages the soul to make a connection with the Source.   The PPP in the 6th house of healing, Good Orderly Direction, humility, service, mental discrimination and self-purification and self-discipline will be necessary for them to become open to spiritual growth and fill the void within.  But that is another post.

HI Slayton,

QuoteI find it's very difficult to bring my mind to any one definition of Pluto in the 12th house, because it is at once very general and hyper-specific, so then the concept of mythology arose and I decided to roll with that. I know that Pluto and Neptune are brothers, so there's going to be some kind of camaraderie, in terms of elemental groove. That said I don't think that it would be an easy conversation, for the simple fact that fixed-water Pluto doesn't do anything easily, necessarily, and would be popping all of Neptune's bubbles or boiling them. And Neptune would conversely be diffusing Pluto's power/need for control, which might piss off the archetype more than it bargained for.

So we have to look at the duality of the situation: and turn to what might be the unconscious expression, or conscious action. Unconscious could be completely psychotic disillusionment; bring in sex drugs and rock and roll, so it depends so much on all of the other aspects, etc., and why the soul desires to be in Pisces I the first place. The flip/conscious side of the coin would be maybe ecstatic spirituality, though it wouldn't be a spontaneous transformation; it would have been something that was accumulating ah for possibly lifetimes, because we know that Pluto would only hit this spot once in a lifetime, and again it depends on all the aspects relative to its location, and you know I just don't have enough formal training in EA to say anything further than that uh but as I see it, the soul is on a precipice like a full surrender; something is being asked of the soul here and at the same time the soul isn't going to do Jack **** without full trust in the Creator, so it comes down to choice and free will and the evolutionary state of that soul.

Welcome to the thread! I forgot to say for those who are new - what I'd like everyone to do is actually read the Pluto in the 12th house section. This will give everyone the core teachings to meditate upon and integrate before posting. And that's intersting, I didn't know that about Pluto and Neptune being brothers.

Hi Pisces Lady,

Quote12th house Plutos have been learning thru prior lives the lesson that they are not separate from the whole (source) but part of it. They will have evolved some degree of spiritualization during their previous lives and will be moving toward the 6th house PPP.  But with all 12th house pluto placements there is a pull to separate and individuate from the whole and at the same time there exists a thirst, a hunger for wholeness, the desire to be "one of" (merging) rather than "the one" (separating).  They have a deep need to align with a belief system that will encourage them in beliefs and values that are universal in nature which will relieve the sense of alienation and feeling of being lost or missing something.

Great.

QuoteOver lifetimes their ego-centeredness has been under pressure to evolve into Source-centeredness.  But fear of losing their sense of identity (of losing themselves/falling into the abyss) will drive them to latch onto something/anything of an ego building nature.  These ego building representations could be anything that is temporal regardless of evolutionary state: belief system, the intellect, people, social role, success,alcohol, children, money, a cause etc."¦  They will always fail because not only are these attachments temporary, they are illusions and a poor substitute for the Source which is what the soul really wants.   When these substitutes do fail, the individual will be left facing the four horsemen of terror, bewilderment, frustration and despair.  This is the consequence of defining the ego with that which is limited and defined by time and space.

Even if these individuals attain a dream, or vision of what they desire it is not going to measure up to their unrealistic expectations or their idealized standards and once again they are lost, knowing that they have not found "IT" that which will complete them and make them whole and once again they face the 4 horsemen.

As long as they resist letting go of these illusions, the 4 horsemen will drive these souls into escapism and denial, victimization and martyrdom, judgmentalness and intolerance.  The ticket out lies in aligning with a spiritual practice which encourages the soul to make a connection with the Source.   The PPP in the 6th house of healing, Good Orderly Direction, humility, service, mental discrimination and self-purification and self-discipline will be necessary for them to become open to spiritual growth and fill the void within.  But that is another post.

Excellent work Pisces Lady, thanks for starting us off. Only correction is judgentalness and intolerance isn't necessarily associated with Pluto in the 12th. It can, as anything can be. The main point you bring up is that the nature of resistnace here speaks to the need to maintain an illusion of reality that, albeit temporal, provides a sense of meaning. When it crumbles, the four horsemen are right on. It can be very traumatizing to the soul to be stripped of whatever gave them meaning. This dream reality can be a seemingly healthy thing - a positive cause, a spiritual teacher, success, doing something great for the world etc just as much as it can be drugs, alcohol, money etc.

Quote from: ari moshe on Jun 05, 2020, 04:43 AM
HI Slayton,

Welcome to the thread! I forgot to say for those who are new - what I'd like everyone to do is actually read the Pluto in the 12th house section. This will give everyone the core teachings to meditate upon and integrate before posting. And that's intersting, I didn't know that about Pluto and Neptune being brothers.

Ah... I see. Okay, thanks.

You mentioned a couple of times about not being sure if you answered my question or not, but I guess you did Ari, because my main question was whether what I described could, in a general way, correspond to the Pisces archetype. And you helped to clarify this. I was unsure if there was for sure a Pisces influence, and was wanting to hear the opinion of another and more experienced astrologer.

I also think that much of the fear and all the insecurity is also a manifestation of my own native pluto, for example. And so as you said, to further details certainly a complete analysis should be done. I must say that what you said about the influence of the Moon and Saturn has already been enough to generate many questions in my head, by the way. Reflecting on these points and also the personal planets that fall in the 12th (in my natal chart) it's something I have been doing for a very long time in these past few days, in order to see if it could offer more information. Because the solar return/transits/progressions just "highlight" what already exists in that natal chart, right? As I mentioned, a bit of this feeling was already familiar before the date of the Solar return, so I have been trying to correlate this feeling to these planets in the 12th in the natal, for example.

Quote. So meaning is found the moment you start orienting yourself towards love, truth, miracles, God, meaning, eternity.

Trying to focus in the here and now, and in the details of what constitutes the current moment - in order to remember me that each moment is different from the other - is something I remember trying to do, when these memories/fears described popped out.

Thank you for the constant efforts in trying to respond everyone that write in this thread in a quickly way!

~ Julia

Quote from: ari moshe on May 26, 2020, 12:46 PM
Hello everyone, for our next practice we will place Pluto in the 12th house.

Hello to all,

Sorry, I'm so delayed in this work, but it is difficult to feel the 12 house or Pisces energy (is where are my NN). If my English translation is not very good, please forgive me and correct it if you feel like.

People with this position of Pluto, in the 12th house or Pisces, had and have the evolutionary intention of aligning themselves with a transcendental belief system that allows them to understand Creation and to experience their individuality as an extension of this source of creative power. So, there is an evolutionary need to dissolve all barriers that prevent individual identification with the source. During key cycles, the evolutionary need makes these people experience an implosion process of this aspect or belief, leaving the individual disoriented and without control of his life because what is dissolved is not immediately replaced.
JWG identifies three distinct reactions to this evolutionary impulse.
A first reaction would be to reject or repulse of evolutionary desire, where, by denying the existence of any force greater than themselves, makes them turn to what is familiar and "safe", that is, to the past, continuously and progressively leading the emerging of life situations from ever-greater impotence, such as karmic conditions of physical deficiencies, confinement or blockades to the exercise of power.
A consequence of resistance can be Identification with a single element or aspect of yourself - everything will manifest through it, giving you a sense of individuality. It can induce compulsions due to the sense of security created by being a known aspect, and the consequent egocentric control sense. Identification can also occur with a subgroup belief system that gives them that sense of individuality.
Another consequence of the denial of the evolutionary impulse is when fantasies or illusions that symbolize identification with the source are created and, when they are conditioned by separation desires, become experiences that provide the knowledge that the individual is a co-creator of reality, through belief and visualization, but also knowledge on the nature of these illusions and delusions which, although built based on reality, are not real and, as such, are doomed to fail and will lead to disillusionment.
Resistance or denial can manifest as an evasion of reality, making them want everything to be as it should be, but sooner or later, through self-sabotage activities or environmental confrontations, they will face reality for achieving awareness of the reason of this reaction.
Another reaction would be paralysis, here the individuals neither advance nor retreat, that is, they recognize that they are connected to something greater, but, due to the fear and the compulsions to which they are linked, they resist this movement. They are attracted and repelled by the conscious development of a relationship with this greater power, practicing a type of fluctuating spirituality, depending on whether or not there are crises. For this development to proceed, they will go cyclically through experiences where there will be emotional problems, problems with work, and where they will feel alienated, disillusioned, or disconnected and meaningless.
A third possible reaction would be to move forward, with faith, and allow the dissolution of all ego blockages and limitations, until they are unconditioned from cultural and social identifications, allowing the source of creation to express itself through its actions. This being the reaction of the individual, a metamorphosis will occur, where a new form of relationship with himself and with life emerges from the soul, even if he does not identify it as such, or there is the consciousness of it.
According to JWG, the second reaction would be the most common, the other two being more unusual in most people. However, cyclically, most individuals with this Pluto positioning will exhibit some degree of resistance to this learning process, varying in degree of intensity throughout their lives.
All people with this position brings to this life idealized standard conduct through which they exercise their judgment, internally and externally. The correct application of the judgment is necessary so that, instead of behaviors that lead to the avoidance of reality (drugs, alcohol, etc.) and feelings of martyrdom and victimization, they can apply forgiveness of our faults and defects and continue they own evolutionary path.
The fear of dissolution and loss of control can manifest itself through symptoms, from the "lightest" to the "heaviest", even constituting psychopathology, or even possession, or total fragmentation and disintegration. It can also manifest itself in behaviors where the individual considers himself a god and is completely mired in his ego.
The fact that the pineal gland is more stimulated in these people, sensitizing the whole organism, can also affect their physical health, since the more negative the individual's response to the evolutionary need, the more serious the disease may be on the physical and/or psychological level. This awareness can also have positive expressions such as attunement to higher vibrations and impulses or transcendental knowledge.
They have also been learning, in past lives, to balance their needs for activity versus inactivity, as well as to be aware of the need for this balance. Since the equilibrium point is always changing, it is necessary to develop an attunement to find it whenever it changes to provide harmony with the reality that favors consequent action.
If the individual had responded positively to the evolutionary need of previous lives, he can come into this life with mediumistic abilities and ease of communication with other plans, or with an exclusive focus on the source, or having revelations about the nature of it.
This whole process leads us to learn about beliefs, faith and to become aware of being connected to a higher whole, whether we like it or not, as well as to lose the fear of surrender to the unknown.

Susana

Hi Susana, great to see your post. I'll be responding to this tomorrow.

Hi Susana... for some reason the quote function isn't working. See below for my comments.

People with this position of Pluto, in the 12th house or Pisces, had and have the evolutionary intention of aligning themselves with a transcendental belief system that allows them to understand Creation and to experience their individuality as an extension of this source of creative power. So, there is an evolutionary need to dissolve all barriers that prevent individual identification with the source. During key cycles, the evolutionary need makes these people experience an implosion process of this aspect or belief, leaving the individual disoriented and without control of his life because what is dissolved is not immediately replaced.
JWG identifies three distinct reactions to this evolutionary impulse.
A first reaction would be to reject or repulse of evolutionary desire, where, by denying the existence of any force greater than themselves, makes them turn to what is familiar and "safe", that is, to the past, continuously and progressively leading the emerging of life situations from ever-greater impotence, such as karmic conditions of physical deficiencies, confinement or blockades to the exercise of power.
A consequence of resistance can be Identification with a single element or aspect of yourself - everything will manifest through it, giving you a sense of individuality. It can induce compulsions due to the sense of security created by being a known aspect, and the consequent egocentric control sense. Identification can also occur with a subgroup belief system that gives them that sense of individuality.
Another consequence of the denial of the evolutionary impulse is when fantasies or illusions that symbolize identification with the source are created and, when they are conditioned by separation desires, become experiences that provide the knowledge that the individual is a co-creator of reality, through belief and visualization, but also knowledge on the nature of these illusions and delusions which, although built based on reality, are not real and, as such, are doomed to fail and will lead to disillusionment.
Resistance or denial can manifest as an evasion of reality, making them want everything to be as it should be, but sooner or later, through self-sabotage activities or environmental confrontations, they will face reality for achieving awareness of the reason of this reaction.
Another reaction would be paralysis, here the individuals neither advance nor retreat, that is, they recognize that they are connected to something greater, but, due to the fear and the compulsions to which they are linked, they resist this movement. They are attracted and repelled by the conscious development of a relationship with this greater power, practicing a type of fluctuating spirituality, depending on whether or not there are crises. For this development to proceed, they will go cyclically through experiences where there will be emotional problems, problems with work, and where they will feel alienated, disillusioned, or disconnected and meaningless.
A third possible reaction would be to move forward, with faith, and allow the dissolution of all ego blockages and limitations, until they are unconditioned from cultural and social identifications, allowing the source of creation to express itself through its actions. This being the reaction of the individual, a metamorphosis will occur, where a new form of relationship with himself and with life emerges from the soul, even if he does not identify it as such, or there is the consciousness of it.
According to JWG, the second reaction would be the most common, the other two being more unusual in most people. However, cyclically, most individuals with this Pluto positioning will exhibit some degree of resistance to this learning process, varying in degree of intensity throughout their lives.
All people with this position brings to this life idealized standard conduct through which they exercise their judgment, internally and externally. The correct application of the judgment is necessary so that, instead of behaviors that lead to the avoidance of reality (drugs, alcohol, etc.) and feelings of martyrdom and victimization, they can apply forgiveness of our faults and defects and continue they own evolutionary path.
The fear of dissolution and loss of control can manifest itself through symptoms, from the "lightest" to the "heaviest", even constituting psychopathology, or even possession, or total fragmentation and disintegration. It can also manifest itself in behaviors where the individual considers himself a god and is completely mired in his ego.
The fact that the pineal gland is more stimulated in these people, sensitizing the whole organism, can also affect their physical health, since the more negative the individual's response to the evolutionary need, the more serious the disease may be on the physical and/or psychological level. This awareness can also have positive expressions such as attunement to higher vibrations and impulses or transcendental knowledge.
They have also been learning, in past lives, to balance their needs for activity versus inactivity, as well as to be aware of the need for this balance. Since the equilibrium point is always changing, it is necessary to develop an attunement to find it whenever it changes to provide harmony with the reality that favors consequent action.
If the individual had responded positively to the evolutionary need of previous lives, he can come into this life with mediumistic abilities and ease of communication with other plans, or with an exclusive focus on the source, or having revelations about the nature of it.
This whole process leads us to learn about beliefs, faith and to become aware of being connected to a higher whole, whether we like it or not, as well as to lose the fear of surrender to the unknown.

****

Great work Susana, you express the essence of this placement. What I'd like to do is offer some refinements so this feels a bit more real and less conceptual.

When the soul is cooperating with evolutionary intention - they may or may not be psychich or have meduimistic abilities. What it does mean is that they will, in some way, have directed their consciousness towards that which is transcendent and beyond their own personal judgment and perceptions. We can have a soul that needs to save everyone and that their peace will be disturbed by the possibility of suffering in the world, leading them to be swayed one way or another according to what happens around them. In this case their sense of purpose is linked with the ephemeral conditions of the maya, of the changing world around them. When to help and when not to, when to merge and when not to. These are questions for this soul. Being in cooperation with evolutionary purpose here means ultimately beocming what creator wants of them.

I know a soul transitioning into individuated states with this placement in Leo in the 12th. He has no strong spiritual belief system and isni't interested in notions of surrender. He is in fact very practical and incredibly "if I can see it then it's real." He doesn't even dream. However his entire life is service, service to his family (south node in cap) and truly following the path that has been given to him. Everyone who knows him knows him as a selfless person who will give whenever he can.

Some souls will be obsessed with spirituality and trascendence. Be it a teacher, crystals, ingantible notions of spirtual ascention without it being grounded in anything tangible. Just getting high on the energy of trascendence. These souls will learn, one way or another, to discern the difference between escaping from reality vs surrendering to reality and their place within it.

Great work and thank you for your efforts!

Hi Julia, Susana, Brave, Pisces Lady, Linda and anyone else I missed who is still playing..
Next week I'll add the south node. To anyone else that wants to work on this first step, go for it!

Hi everyone! We will add our next step.

If conceptualizing Pluto in the 12th house has felt difficult, this will give it some context.

Lets place Pluto in the 12th house with the south node in the 3rd house.

3rd house corresponds to how we intellectually organize our reality. This points to what we call "logic". Logic makes things make sense. As we form logical conclusions, we are able to take existing whole thoughts about reality and add to them which basically allows us to comprehend more of reality in an increasingly more holistic way.

Our learning in the third house never arrives at a state of completion. This is because there's always, in theory, something more to learn and think about, research etc relative to literally anything. So the potential for learning is great within the third house. And yet there can also be a strong insecurity here linked to the need to feel secure in one's intellectual organization. Thus, new information or information that challenges what is already conclused can feel threathening. Or on the other hand, being scattered and all over the place with the mind.

The south node in the 3rd ego structure has basically been moving through this world with an orientation to know themselves through learning, communication, gathering data, expanding their mental context for life.

Please read the Pluto in the 3rd house section to get a stronger grasp of the 3rd house archetype as taught by Jeffrey Wolf Green.

Then, consider, "how has the 3rd house identity structure served as a vehicle for the desires of Pluto in the 12th?" What might be some areas of resistance and where might the soul be empowered? Remember that the south node is the soul's familiar orientation to knowing itself as a self, and that orientation means that this is how the soul has been relating to the evolution intent. Please feel free to ask any questions!

Also, do let me know if you plan on posting, so I can be clear about who is still working on this.

I'm still working on it.   :)  I'll post in a few days .

Hi Ari, and everyone,

I am working on my writing for Pluto in the 12th house, and I would like to continue this study!
I have been experiencing deep internal and external transformations and challenges since I last posted.
I am sure that this may also be true for many of you and seems to be reflected in the lull of activity in this thread.

I am so grateful for finding this work in 2019. It has been tremendously helpful in keeping me grounded in these times - in the 'bigger picture' perspective that astrology offers us.

Thank you to everyone who is doing their own individual 'work' and I encourage myself, and everyone to keep on with their astrological study if, how and when it is possible.

Love
A

Quote from: ari moshe on May 26, 2020, 12:46 PM
Hello everyone, for our next practice we will place Pluto in the 12th house.

Pluto in the 12th house or Pisces

This has been interesting for a personal reason - Pluto is conjunct by transit, to the degree, my natal Neptune until September. I am being confronted by the crumbling 'reality' of many of my assumptions and my naiveté, etc. And everything that lurks underneath. Learning discernment.
It is like dreams within dreams, within dreams. And the more I know, the less I know. It is challenging; in a time when it feels like I 'should' be taking action I am finding I doubt almost everything.
Neptune also sits as a 'skipped step' in my chart - so I can relate to many of the themes mentioned in the Pluto Book's chapter on the 12th house Pluto; perfectionism, self identification as a martyr, as an ultimate failure in the eyes of God or the embodiment of a higher power...
The journey continues!

The 12th house or Pisces Pluto soul stands closer, than any other Pluto position, to the crux of the souls two desires. The 12th house correlates to the desire to merge with source and contains within it the soul journey each previous sign has made on the path towards the dissolution of separating desires. The souls underlying desire at this stage is the basic desire to finally let go of all individualistic constructs and egocentric identification to merge with source.
To paraphrase a phrase I heard recently: "Saturn used to represent reality and Neptune (12th house) the illusions that distort. As our awareness evolves we realise that Neptune (Pisces) is reality and Saturn is the illusion that there ever was one". Individuals with Pluto in the 12th house or Pisces will express the desire for separation by creating reality structures that allow them to hold on to their ego. The inevitable and underlying fact is that they are connected to, and ultimately one with, a much larger whole and this will be shown to them as their structures cyclically disintegrate. They will go through periods of disorientation and confusion as their latest firmament dissolves until source offers the next idea or opportunity; the next dream or fantasy. For they are connected to the intelligence immanent and essential to all consciousness beyond duality, whether they choose to admit that or not. They may even create identities based on this power - imagining that they are an embodied form of source in one way or another, tricking themselves into a fantasy where they are still in control.
The 12th house signifies not only the power to create illusions and fantasies, but also the ultimate reality - that which is left when everything that is unreal is burned away - and that which will work through the individual.

Hi Akim,
I know we are not supposed to delve into our personal charts and ask questions that would only pertain to us, so I won't. So as a general question, knowing your Neptune is a skipped step, and also that this is a beginner's thread - have you been able to identify your resolution node? Especially during this time of disillusionment, have you been able to put into context what that would look like?
Again, this is not a place for personal readings, but have you been able to make sense of things for yourself?
Hope all is well!
-Oliver

Hello Ari and everyone

I want to confirm that I am working on the south node in the third house and I will post my answer. I know that I have been more absent whose reasons are related to a more complicated period in my journey (I am having Saturn retrograded to the exact degree of my ascendant), which implies some restructuring and personal challenges. However, I do not want to miss this unique opportunity to improve what I am studying in such a practical way, made possible by Ari's goodwill and interest. So, I still need some time to review the Gemini chapter, but as soon as I finish I will post my answer.
Stay safe! 
Susana Góis

Pluto in the 12th/SN in the 3rd


The soul with Pluto in the 12th has been working for many lifetimes to let go of ego attachments and identify with the divine through a spiritual tradition, to see themselves as an extension of the creator.  In past lives, with the SN in the 3rd, the individual has been seeking to understand their immediate environment as well as the world about them in an effort to understand themselves and their place in the world and discover their connection to the divine.  By collecting, classifying and organizing information, developing their powers of reason, they seek to make sense of their life and existence:  to discover the bottom line, ultimate meaning of it all. 

I would think the soul with Pluto in the 12th and SN in the 3rd would have an innate curiosity regarding a variety philosophical, religious, spiritual or metaphysical traditions.  They may have a desire to dive into the sciences to discover universal principles underlying the natural sciences and metaphysical sciences.  They want to know how everything is connected and how they are connected as well.  They find themselves on a never-ending, relentless quest to gather more and more information which based on its limitations will contradict, conflict and/or create paradoxes that cannot be resolved.  Without a center or bottom-line from which to grow, the individual would experience many dark nights of the soul or what I call the four horsemen.   As they confront the illusions and delusions of their thought systems they feel lost and insecure yet push on always looking for the missing piece of the puzzle of life.


Bearing in mind that the 3rd house SN soul seeks emotional security through the intellect,  in time as the individual moves toward the 9th house polarity point and aligns with a spiritual tradition they connect with on an intuitive gut level,  it will serve as a stabilizing factor (the missing piece) for the questing restless mind. The tradition will provide what the lone intellect cannot.  The alignment with a spiritual tradition will reflect their evolutionary state.  The consensus soul would align with a socially accepted tradition, the individuated soul would seek to gather information from a variety of traditions and devise their own path, and the spiritual state soul would align with a system they felt attuned to from a past life. This will allow them to accept the limitations of the mind and discover their own individual truth (rather than THE truth) and live it. 

As the evolutionary lessons are learned the individual can communicate timeless truths in a manner that inspire and motivate others while remaining both student and teacher.  They will be able to penetrate to the core of an issue and point to the solution.  They will discover a natural ability to perceive natural laws that exist within seeming diversity and easily communicate those perceptions to others.   

Hi everyone! Sorry for my delay. Got caught up in human drama and got sidetracked for a moment. So happy to see all the posts. I'll be responding tomorrow.

Hi Akim,

Quote

Pluto in the 12th house or Pisces

This has been interesting for a personal reason - Pluto is conjunct by transit, to the degree, my natal Neptune until September. I am being confronted by the crumbling 'reality' of many of my assumptions and my naiveté, etc. And everything that lurks underneath. Learning discernment.

It is like dreams within dreams, within dreams. And the more I know, the less I know. It is challenging; in a time when it feels like I 'should' be taking action I am finding I doubt almost everything.
Neptune also sits as a 'skipped step' in my chart - so I can relate to many of the themes mentioned in the Pluto Book's chapter on the 12th house Pluto; perfectionism, self identification as a martyr, as an ultimate failure in the eyes of God or the embodiment of a higher power...

The journey continues!

The 12th house or Pisces Pluto soul stands closer, than any other Pluto position, to the crux of the souls two desires. The 12th house correlates to the desire to merge with source and contains within it the soul journey each previous sign has made on the path towards the dissolution of separating desires. The souls underlying desire at this stage is the basic desire to finally let go of all individualistic constructs and egocentric identification to merge with source.

To paraphrase a phrase I heard recently: "Saturn used to represent reality and Neptune (12th house) the illusions that distort. As our awareness evolves we realise that Neptune (Pisces) is reality and Saturn is the illusion that there ever was one".

Great point.

QuoteIndividuals with Pluto in the 12th house or Pisces will express the desire for separation by creating reality structures that allow them to hold on to their ego. The inevitable and underlying fact is that they are connected to, and ultimately one with, a much larger whole and this will be shown to them as their structures cyclically disintegrate. They will go through periods of disorientation and confusion as their latest firmament dissolves until source offers the next idea or opportunity; the next dream or fantasy.

For they are connected to the intelligence immanent and essential to all consciousness beyond duality, whether they choose to admit that or not. They may even create identities based on this power - imagining that they are an embodied form of source in one way or another, tricking themselves into a fantasy where they are still in control.
The 12th house signifies not only the power to create illusions and fantasies, but also the ultimate reality - that which is left when everything that is unreal is burned away - and that which will work through the individual.

Excellent Akim. You get the essence. One important principal here is that of surrender. Without surrender to a greater point of meaning there is no way to know if one is making it all up or not. The question becomes, what is real? What to beleive, what is love? This is why meditation and other forms of cultivating a direct connection to the Source within is so important in the 12th house. For most souls however there's a persistant resistance to true and total surrender; the need to maintain aleigance to personal illusion reflecting the seperating desire: to hold onto something other than the truth.

Hi Pisces Lady,

QuotePluto in the 12th/SN in the 3rd

The soul with Pluto in the 12th has been working for many lifetimes to let go of ego attachments and identify with the divine through a spiritual tradition, to see themselves as an extension of the creator.

Not necessarily a spiritual tradition per se.

QuoteIn past lives, with the SN in the 3rd, the individual has been seeking to understand their immediate environment as well as the world about them in an effort to understand themselves and their place in the world and discover their connection to the divine.  By collecting, classifying and organizing information, developing their powers of reason, they seek to make sense of their life and existence:  to discover the bottom line, ultimate meaning of it all.

I would think the soul with Pluto in the 12th and SN in the 3rd would have an innate curiosity regarding a variety philosophical, religious, spiritual or metaphysical traditions.  They may have a desire to dive into the sciences to discover universal principles underlying the natural sciences and metaphysical sciences.  They want to know how everything is connected and how they are connected as well.  They find themselves on a never-ending, relentless quest to gather more and more information which based on its limitations will contradict, conflict and/or create paradoxes that cannot be resolved.  Without a center or bottom-line from which to grow, the individual would experience many dark nights of the soul or what I call the four horsemen.   As they confront the illusions and delusions of their thought systems they feel lost and insecure yet push on always looking for the missing piece of the puzzle of life.

Philosophical, religious, spiritual or metaphysical traditions would be more south node in the 9th house. Metaphysics is 9th house. Empirical data, research, naming things are all 3rd house. Everything else you said is right on. The never ending search for more information.

To add some focusing points: Relative to Pluto in the 12th the soul would be seeking MEANING through the mind. Their own resistance to evolution would express by way of trying to hold onto a linear context to understand reality because without it they have no point of surrender. Their underlying point of meaning and trust in life has been dependent upon their logical comprehension of life. This creates a strong conditionality to their peace and the great possibility of confusion if say they learn something that contradicts what they already concluded. It could result in grasping for more information, more thought, kind of like an addict, to feverishly make sure life is logically sound no matter what. This could result in upholding absolutely insane (yet seemingly logical) ideas. What's funny is that the mind can make anything seem logically sound. Relative to Pluto in the 12th can you see how far out this could potentially go? Anything could be logically rationalized with the mind.

QuoteBearing in mind that the 3rd house SN soul seeks emotional security through the intellect,  in time as the individual moves toward the 9th house polarity point and aligns with a spiritual tradition they connect with on an intuitive gut level,  it will serve as a stabilizing factor (the missing piece) for the questing restless mind. The tradition will provide what the lone intellect cannot.  The alignment with a spiritual tradition will reflect their evolutionary state.  The consensus soul would align with a socially accepted tradition, the individuated soul would seek to gather information from a variety of traditions and devise their own path, and the spiritual state soul would align with a system they felt attuned to from a past life. This will allow them to accept the limitations of the mind and discover their own individual truth (rather than THE truth) and live it.

As the evolutionary lessons are learned the individual can communicate timeless truths in a manner that inspire and motivate others while remaining both student and teacher.  They will be able to penetrate to the core of an issue and point to the solution.  They will discover a natural ability to perceive natural laws that exist within seeming diversity and easily communicate those perceptions to others. 

Excellent work Pisces Lady. One correction, the 9th house doesn't correspond to spiritual traditions by itself. Tradition specifically correlates to Saturn/Cap/ 10th house. We'll get to the 9th house soon, but for now it reflects natural law and there is in fact no inherent need to associate a religion, tradition or any particular "ism" to it.

Quote from: OliverFred888 on Jul 05, 2020, 03:52 PM
Hi Akim,
I know we are not supposed to delve into our personal charts and ask questions that would only pertain to us, so I won't. So as a general question, knowing your Neptune is a skipped step, and also that this is a beginner's thread - have you been able to identify your resolution node? Especially during this time of disillusionment, have you been able to put into context what that would look like?
Again, this is not a place for personal readings, but have you been able to make sense of things for yourself?
Hope all is well!
-Oliver

Hi Oliver,
Cheers for the encouragement to practice applied learning. I think answering this question broadly could be helpful rather than detracting from the thread, so I shall go ahead.

Yes, I have identified the 'resolution node'. It is the N. node for me. And I have been unpacking the symbols of the sign and house for the N. node, as well as the S. node and Neptune.

Few things I have noticed: is that in those moments, episodes, days when 'the fog lifts' and I have a sense of clarity and orientation on where I am, who I am and where I'm going - in those moments I could say that I am in touch with or embodying the energies that I correlate to my N. node, by house and sign. And in those moments, when I look ahead, then I see those same symbols as a calling, a feeling of desire and meaning (a path).

Those 'glimpses' come, pretty much, 'out of the blue'. I have also played with trying to actively embody the energies or traits that I think my N. node signifies, however it seems to create resistance and adds to the confusion.

I see some confusion in my understanding of what is really defined by 'skipped step' and 'resolution node'. A part of me, I guess 'ego', can grab onto that in way that defines 'skipped step' as 'problem' and 'resolution node' as something I can/need to figure out or crack in order to solve the 'problem'.

Unpacking the word "resolution" gives more food for thought.. three definitions that jumped out at me are;-

1. "a firm decision to do or not to do something." - this correlates more to my initial "I'm going to do my n. node." attitude.

2. "the conversion of something abstract into another form." - this correlates to a gentler version, where I playfully interact with and unpack the archetypes and symbols involved, without trying to hard to come to final conclusions or make things happen. This procession of 'conversion' seems to happen as a byproduct of curiosity.

3. "the passing of a discord into a concord during the course of changing harmony." - this seems to correlate most to the essence of the matter. The 'musical score' that is my evolutionary process plays and now and then a bridge or resolution happens before the next verse with its discord comes.
Maybe eventually the 'musical movement' that is my 'skipped step' will have a final resolve and I will hear and play the song of my N. node. Or maybe the N. node is a 2nd movement that will be gradually introduced, providing a resolution for the skipped step issues.

So yeah, it has been helpful to have these ideas there, working in my conscious and unconscious, and the N. node symbols do seem to correlate to a sense of freedom whereas the S. node symbols seem to correlate to patterns of resistance and control.
The S. node also seems to hold some of the very qualities that I need in order to realise the N. node. This is also how I have heard some EA astrologers speak to the 'skipped step' - that there is a bit of a 'seesaw' going on.

Whether any of this is real, or because I have superimposed the meaning on top of it - I don't know.

+ IF what is going on for me correlates to this Pluto, Saturn and Jupiter conference around my skipped step Neptune, then I would say it has to do with a thorough excavation and examination of ones coping strategies, illusions and delusions, addictions and dreams.

Quote from: ari moshe on Jun 29, 2020, 11:54 PM
Then, consider, "how has the 3rd house identity structure served as a vehicle for the desires of Pluto in the 12th?" What might be some areas of resistance and where might the soul be empowered?

Since Gemini is a sign ruled by Mercury, a planet that represents how we process the information in a rational, left-brain way, this can describe a soul that in the recent past tried to find the meaning to things through collecting information from different sources. The more these natives searched and learned, the more they get aware about the vastness and of the diversity of opinions that may exist regarding pretty much anything.

Resistance could manifest, in this case, by struggles that could exist in facing the reality as it presents itself (PPP 6th house?), or in just listening and following what their own inner guidance can bring as advice (9th NN?). Since possibilities are that the native may have a tendency to try to rationalize what not always can be rationalized, it could occur to them to feel stuck at times, by for example a need to constantly search for evidences and/or other people experiences rather to simply putting in practice the idea that their "gut feeling" brought.

There may also frustrations that could be experimented by these natives progressively,  each time they feel like all their researches and knowledge (Gemini?) still haven't gave to them the sense of identification that they so deeply crave for. It's more or less as if these people can find empowerment through rationalizing, but at the same time, a certain emptiness that never seem to be filled. The emptiness could be perceived when none of these theories seems to fit to their particular way interpreting reality (Pisces?).

These might be souls that in the recent lives were highly creative and imaginative, having a mind that seemed to have no boundaries. In some cases, Pluto 12th and SN in the 3rd natives could have been writers, storytellers and/or individuals that have been learning the meaning of compassion through knowing and getting more in touch with the people from their culture and close environment.

*************************************************************************************

PS I.: Once again I haven't read the other users' answers before written mine. Hope that's ok, although short (and not very much vague).

PS II.: I thought about putting those "?" there just to try to be more clear about the reason why I used those terms. In this way everyone that will read my post in this thread will understand that I write that term thinking in a certain archetype, and then be able to correct me if necessary, in the case of seeing that I am assimilating a whole archetype in a way that it's not completely right.

~ Júlia

Hi Julia

QuoteSince Gemini is a sign ruled by Mercury, a planet that represents how we process the information in a rational, left-brain way, this can describe a soul that in the recent past tried to find the meaning to things through collecting information from different sources. The more these natives searched and learned, the more they get aware about the vastness and of the diversity of opinions that may exist regarding pretty much anything.

Excellent

QuoteResistance could manifest, in this case, by struggles that could exist in facing the reality as it presents itself (PPP 6th house?), or in just listening and following what their own inner guidance can bring as advice (9th NN?). Since possibilities are that the native may have a tendency to try to rationalize what not always can be rationalized, it could occur to them to feel stuck at times, by for example a need to constantly search for evidences and/or other people experiences rather to simply putting in practice the idea that their "gut feeling" brought.

Facing reality as it presents itself would actually be 9th house: self eveident realizations to what is. The nature of phenomenal reality as it is is the 9th house: the principals of reality. The discernment and active analysis is the 6th house. Inner guidance/advice too would be 9th house.

It might not be about searching for other people's experiences but definitely about the need to establish intellectual cohesion; the need to make sense out of things. This can mean that if the facts don't connect that the soul will experience cognitive dissonance in the face of what actually is. This dissonance will either be met with surrender/ realization that they have created a web of logic in the bubble of their own minds or through resistance: holding more stronlgy to their mental constructs to try to make sense of life even when reality is saying otherwise. Like grasping at water and trying to tell the water how it's supposed to behave. I see in your next paragraph you speak to this ...

QuoteThere may also frustrations that could be experimented by these natives progressively,  each time they feel like all their researches and knowledge (Gemini?) still haven't gave to them the sense of identification that they so deeply crave for. It's more or less as if these people can find empowerment through rationalizing, but at the same time, a certain emptiness that never seem to be filled. The emptiness could be perceived when none of these theories seems to fit to their particular way interpreting reality (Pisces?).

Excellent point. Yes to Gemini/3rd house. Inrepretation of reality would be 9th house. 12th house is the ultimate meaning we give to life/ what we surrender to (it's not a philosophy or course of interpretation). 3rd house is what logically fits together. Here the soul would be attempting to arrive at meaning through the logical faculties. But it can literally all be imagined/ all made up. 12th house is the need within all individuals to be linked with Love, the source of all of us. Since it IS who we are and where we come from and since we DON'T all entirely know this, it creates a gap wheirin pretty much all souls are trying to reconsile with that sense of feeling seperate from something that is actually so essential and One, and thus the need to resestablish this connection through whatever the soul can give meaning to/ surrender to as a source of salvation.

QuoteThese might be souls that in the recent lives were highly creative and imaginative, having a mind that seemed to have no boundaries. In some cases, Pluto 12th and SN in the 3rd natives could have been writers, storytellers and/or individuals that have been learning the meaning of compassion through knowing and getting more in touch with the people from their culture and close environment.

Great correlation.

QuotePS I.: Once again I haven't read the other users' answers before written mine. Hope that's ok, although short (and not very much vague).

PS II.: I thought about putting those "?" there just to try to be more clear about the reason why I used those terms. In this way everyone that will read my post in this thread will understand that I write that term thinking in a certain archetype, and then be able to correct me if necessary, in the case of seeing that I am assimilating a whole archetype in a way that it's not completely right.

Excellent work Julia, I feel you understand the core relationship between Pluto in the 12th and the 3rd house south node.

Quote from: ari moshe on Jun 29, 2020, 11:54 PM
Hi everyone! We will add our next step.

If conceptualizing Pluto in the 12th house has felt difficult, this will give it some context.

Lets place Pluto in the 12th house with the south node in the 3rd house.

Then, consider, "how has the 3rd house identity structure served as a vehicle for the desires of Pluto in the 12th?" What might be some areas of resistance and where might the soul be empowered? Remember that the south node is the soul's familiar orientation to knowing itself as a self, and that orientation means that this is how the soul has been relating to the evolution intent. Please feel free to ask any questions!

Hy everyone!
There are my answer:

Individuals with Pluto in the 12th house have an evolutionary need for alignment with a transcendental belief system that allows them to understand creation and to express their individuality as an extension of that creation. So, for this to be provided, they need to dissolve all the barriers that prevent their identification with the source.
With the south node in the 3rd house, these individuals have been collecting facts and information on which they will build the explanatory models of how the world works and, consequently, of themselves.
However, Pluto's impulse demands that this need be satisfied through surrender to the unknown and the creation of the necessary internal confidence that this connection is real, even though the facts and information do not corroborate rationally and intellectually its existence.
In past lives, these individuals have gone through cycles of expansion of their belief system, where the experience and information acquired are interrelated, ultimately increasing knowledge about the world and themselves.
But they also went through cycles of limitation or stagnation where, despite the restlessness and ease of adaptation, characteristic of these individuals, they were not enough to overcome the insecurity felt by the introduction of new experiences or information. Sometimes the gathering of information and experiences was so huge that they ended up having a lot of difficulty in organizing this data in a logical system that made sense to them, once the center or foundation of their perspective was lost.
If they had managed to create their own philosophical and cosmological system internally, with which they identify themselves, the path to understand and accept Pluto's evolutionary intent at 12th will be facilitated since this system will provide the basis for the emotional security necessary for their evolution.

Susana

Hi Susana, I'm sorry for my delay. Been traveling and I completely spaced on checking here.

QuoteIndividuals with Pluto in the 12th house have an evolutionary need for alignment with a transcendental belief system that allows them to understand creation and to express their individuality as an extension of that creation. So, for this to be provided, they need to dissolve all the barriers that prevent their identification with the source.

With the south node in the 3rd house, these individuals have been collecting facts and information on which they will build the explanatory models of how the world works and, consequently, of themselves.

However, Pluto's impulse demands that this need be satisfied through surrender to the unknown and the creation of the necessary internal confidence that this connection is real, even though the facts and information do not corroborate rationally and intellectually its existence.

Excellent, this line points to the core conflict in that the Truth can not be found/realized entirely through logic alone.

QuoteIn past lives, these individuals have gone through cycles of expansion of their belief system, where the experience and information acquired are interrelated, ultimately increasing knowledge about the world and themselves.

But they also went through cycles of limitation or stagnation where, despite the restlessness and ease of adaptation, characteristic of these individuals, they were not enough to overcome the insecurity felt by the introduction of new experiences or information. Sometimes the gathering of information and experiences was so huge that they ended up having a lot of difficulty in organizing this data in a logical system that made sense to them, once the center or foundation of their perspective was lost.

Excellent

QuoteIf they had managed to create their own philosophical and cosmological system internally, with which they identify themselves, the path to understand and accept Pluto's evolutionary intent at 12th will be facilitated since this system will provide the basis for the emotional security necessary for their evolution.

This last line speaks specifically to the 9th house north node, which would relate to a cosmological framework for understanding the meaning of life. Within the 3rd house just by itself relative to Pluto in the 12th there can be a trascendent capacity to take life lightly; knowing that the world it perceives is as mutable as it's thoughts about the world. This can speak to a soul that has the psychic gifts of communication on multiple dimensions of reality, is able to adopt anywhere because of a knowing that the ephemeral context of reality, the way we think and communicate what we think is incredibly subjective and can be used in all kinds of ways according to the needs of the moment.

Excellent work Susana, thank you for your efforts.

Hi everyone,
In a couple days I'll be back and we'll add the north node and polairty point! For now you can read the Pluto in the 9th house section to get a clear sense of the 9th house archetype.

Hi Pisces Lady, Akim, Susana, Julia and anyone who still plans to post -
First thank you for your great work! At this point I'd like us to add the north node in the 9th house as the vehicle for Pluto in the 6th.

Reading all of your posts, I feel that we will all be able to competently do this.

What kind of ego structure is necessary here for evolution? The 9th house corresponds to our intuition and our direct experience of reality. As we grow on our path we expand our understanding and realizations about the nature of reality. Our learning here is both personal in that it has to be unique to each of us and that it is not some belief or philosophy that we believe in (something outside of ourself). This is what JWG beautifully spoke about in regards to the difference between belief vs knowledge. Knowledge comes from direct experience and is irrefutable.

So there is a growth for this soul in referencing the intuition. Consider how this is different than a 3rd house way of being.


Some pointers on the 6th house polarity point: discrimination and discernment are one of the key themes here. In the 12th house the soul can both be wide open and also fall into delusional beliefs about reality. Potentially, anything could be true, anything can be real. So the practice of discerning true reality and practicing orienting one's consciousness towards source is necessary here. Otherwise it's just openness without any real relationship to Source/Love/True meaning which can be shaped in all kinds of directions. So the 6th house can both relate to actual practices/techniquies that connect the soul to the Truth/Source as well as the practice of orienting to life from a perspective of deep discernment. Pluto in the 12th ultimately is penetrating through all illusions and merging with the only thing that is actually real: God, Love. The practice of such discernment (and thus not just going with the flow of what is presented in the world of ilusions) is an expression of the 6th house polarity.

What I'd like everyone to do is to speak about how the north node in the 9th house will activate the Pluto polarity point in the 6th house.

Quote from: ari moshe on Aug 19, 2020, 05:03 PM
What I'd like everyone to do is to speak about how the north node in the 9th house will activate the Pluto polarity point in the 6th house.

Hi Ari, and all  :)

How the 9th House N. node activates the PPP in the 6th House relative to Pluto in the 12th House:

Evolutionary necessity urges this soul to make manifest, through the 6th House archetype, the spiritual ideals with which they have been aligning themselves. If they are in harmony with the desire to merge with source, then the N. node in the 9th House will lead them towards contacting and trusting their own intuitive sense of their spiritual truth and their path. The S. node in the 3rd house correlates to ego-structures that have been going from one experience to the next, exploring and sampling many spiritual paths, belief systems, concepts, groups and a generally intellectual approach to understanding the spiritual truths they are seeking.
One possibility is that the soul has come to a natural exhaustion of the 3rd House archetype in regards to their spiritual quest. In other words, they have experienced so many different ideas and come to the conclusion, perhaps in crisis, that they still don't know anything. This could trigger the 12th house energy of meaninglesness; Anything could be false, anything could be true. Who knows. This would eventually force the soul to investigate a different form of knowing that goes deeper than the 3rd house. Moving towards the 9th house, the soul would create and be party to experiences that give them opportunities to learn about their intuition; get a feel for their inner voice; the part of them that knows things without rational, intellectual proof. This would activate the 6th House polarity point because this archetype is like a laser of focus in contrast to the wide, indiscriminate openness of the 12th House. The evolutionary intention for this lifetime, through the 6th House archetype, may involve the soul reflecting on everything they thought they knew and together with the intuitive faculties of the 9th House, "˜separating the wheat from the chaff' so to speak. Discernment and descrimination are keywords for the 6th House and by bringing the 12th House through this "˜earthy' process of purification the soul will eventually create the structures needed for the next phase of their spiritual journey - back towards the 12th, with the necessary clarity to make manifest their spiritual truth here on earth.   

Hi Akim,

QuoteHow the 9th House N. node activates the PPP in the 6th House relative to Pluto in the 12th House:

Evolutionary necessity urges this soul to make manifest, through the 6th House archetype, the spiritual ideals with which they have been aligning themselves. If they are in harmony with the desire to merge with source, then the N. node in the 9th House will lead them towards contacting and trusting their own intuitive sense of their spiritual truth and their path. The S. node in the 3rd house correlates to ego-structures that have been going from one experience to the next, exploring and sampling many spiritual paths, belief systems, concepts, groups and a generally intellectual approach to understanding the spiritual truths they are seeking.

One possibility is that the soul has come to a natural exhaustion of the 3rd House archetype in regards to their spiritual quest. In other words, they have experienced so many different ideas and come to the conclusion, perhaps in crisis, that they still don't know anything. This could trigger the 12th house energy of meaninglesness; Anything could be false, anything could be true. Who knows. This would eventually force the soul to investigate a different form of knowing that goes deeper than the 3rd house. Moving towards the 9th house, the soul would create and be party to experiences that give them opportunities to learn about their intuition; get a feel for their inner voice; the part of them that knows things without rational, intellectual proof. This would activate the 6th House polarity point because this archetype is like a laser of focus in contrast to the wide, indiscriminate openness of the 12th House.

Excellent

QuoteThe evolutionary intention for this lifetime, through the 6th House archetype, may involve the soul reflecting on everything they thought they knew and together with the intuitive faculties of the 9th House, "˜separating the wheat from the chaff' so to speak. Discernment and descrimination are keywords for the 6th House and by bringing the 12th House through this "˜earthy' process of purification the soul will eventually create the structures needed for the next phase of their spiritual journey - back towards the 12th, with the necessary clarity to make manifest their spiritual truth here on earth.  

Excellent analysis Akim! Thank you for your contribution. To add to what you have spoken, the 6th house brings in a practical discernment that essentially asks "is it working?" For example, if the soul is in the spiritual state and wishes to evolve closer to Source, the 6th house would be a reflection of self honesty (9th house) about their general way of going about diffusing energy with their minds. They would have to asses if this is actually getting them somewhere, if the false security of logically sound ideas are affecting any real evolution. This would lead to a conscious practice to cultivate (6th house) their spirtuality, realizing it requires effort and they can't just circulate along the old ways of working through the mind. So the 9th house would be a draw towards going somewhere they haven't gone before, and in that going they will not be able to depend upon the old "map".

The desire within the 12th house is to merge with God. To dissolve seperation. The ironic thing is this is exactly what will be resisted. So the 9th house is a way of actually learning to tune in to one's inner guidance. Through this, via the 6th house refined discernment, one can begin to feel like their life is being guided and that they have the ability to consciously orient themselves towards Source, no matter where they are.

Quote from: ari moshe on Sep 09, 2020, 11:07 PM

Thanks for the further insights Ari!
I am still on board and keen to learn and practice.

Best, Akim

Ok Akim, that's great to know! I'd like to hear back from everyone else too. Let me know if you'd plan to complete the last practice and if you'd like to continue on.

Akim, for you any anyone else, if you'd like to go deeper:
Lets place Pluto in Libra in the 12th house, the south node in Capricorn in the 3rd house. North node in Cancer in the 9th.

Now the signs are conditioning the house expressions and gives a more specific context. I'd like to hear you speak about these signatures in the ways you have already done working with the Pluto and nodes evolutionary paradigm.

We are still being generic since we have not applied an evolutionary stage. However if it feels useful for you now/ if you feel ready, you can include in your analysis how this would work at different evolutionary stages - one or many.

When we place the sign on a house we are looking at the specific expression of that house archetype. So while the 3rd house corresponds to learning, gathering information, how we intellectually organize our reality, the sign will tell us the way in which we do that. Capricorn is about definition, boundaries, structure. It is also where a soul is learning discipline and developing awareness of ethics, natural rights and wrongs. It is where the affects of social conditioning according to one's family and country are important to consider etc. What kind of ego strucure then are we looking at with Cap in the 3rd? What might they be interested in and inclined towards? As the vehcile for Pluto, why? Where has that gotten them in the past?

Feel free to ask any questions you need.