NEW PRACTICE CHART THREAD FOR BEGINNERS

[Rad]

Hi Practice Chart Group,

So it seems to be time to start a new paradigm. So our new paradigm will have Pluto in the 8th, the S.Node in the 10th, Pluto's polarity point of course is in the 2nd, and the N.Node is in the 4th.

So let's have a go at it.

God Bless,Rad

[maggie]

Hi Rad..Thank you so much for the encouragement.I'll have a go at the new one too..E A is just amazing!
Kindest
Maggie

[Elen]

Hi Rad,

Here's what I've come up with so far...

Pluto in the 8th House
The Soul with Pluto in the 8th House has experienced lifetimes in which the means of growth has been the experiencing of power (what is within) and powerlessness (what is without).  This Soul has been compelled to transcend the limits of her/his own power by merging with that which has existed outside of her/himself.  In this way this Soul has provided for itself a means of knowing that it would not otherwise have had access to.  As symbolized by the Scorpion, this process has led to experiences of profound betrayal that have themselves led to a deep inward reflection, led ever deeper by the often painful question, "Why?"  Through this deep reflection, the Soul in time has gained the capacity for a clear understanding of both what is within and what is without; the Soul, through its own pain and suffering, has learned to identify the deep psychological truths of both itself and others.  Understanding these truths, the Soul has then had to learn the way of the Phoenix: of stepping into the fire of its own emotional devastation and allowing itself to be purified and born anew.  Ultimately, that is what this house is about: death (to one's old self - powerlessness) and rebirth (to one's new self - power).

SN in the 10th House
The SN in the 10th House has facilitated the Soul's intention in prior lifetimes.  Because the 10th House is a cardinal archetype, right off the bat we know that the Soul's manner of proceeding has taken the form of 2 steps forward and 1 step back.  Thus perhaps the Soul has had to learn through trial and error which external objects to merge with and which to stay clear of; those that proved to be harmful would have led to the 1 step back scenario.  The 2 steps forward, 1 step back process can be understood as a process in which steps were taken into the external world (10th House), only to lead to "stings" (Scorpion), prompting 1 step back into the world of deep inner reflection.  In this way, through this manner of learning, the Soul slowly learned to navigate its world.  The world that this Soul has been navigating has been the world of social context and social expectation.  With the 10th House, there is a need to find one's place within the larger social context.  At yet another level, the question, "Who am I?" is being asked here.  And this Soul's manner of finding the answer to that question has been to merge with external objects of power in the social arena, including position and status (Consensus), (what would the individuated Soul be merging with? - perhaps political change groups??), and spiritual traditions/lineages and gurus for the person in the Spiritual stage.  There is also the question of gender identity with the 4th/10th axis.  The Consensus Soul would not be consciously aware of this issue and would work to suppress it.  The early individuated Soul would experience this quite intensely as a primary reason for the 1 step back part of the process, with the 1 step back hindering self-actualization in the social arena.  Yet this experience would advance their evolution in the best cases.  Later individuated would still experience the 1 step back, but they would emerge in a new way, in possession of their personal power and thus able to step into their social function.  The person in the early spiritual stage would be thrown back on itself without realizing her/his full power in the world while the later stage spiritual Soul would emerge from the 1 step back process with both male and female aspects of itself fully integrated and thus from this place step into its social role.  The 2nd stage spiritual Soul might experience disgrace of some sort in response to its failure to recognized the limits of what it in fact knew.

PPP in the 2nd House
The evolutionary intent of the Soul can be seen by the 2nd House.  The primary archetype of the 2nd House is self-sufficiency.  As the Soul experiences the realities of powerlessness that s/he encounters in the external world, and as these experiences throw her/him back in on her/himself, s/he begins to recognize the importance of learning self-sufficiency; rather than being at the mercy of the larger social context - rather than trying to find one's place by fitting into something outside her/himself - s/he begins to uncover her/his own values - her/his own bottom lines.  And from this place emerges the possibility of self-sustainability.  The 2nd House is also about tunneling down one's perspective.  So in a sense what the Soul is needing to do is to withdraw her/his attention from the external world of the 10th House and direct it inwardly, towards her/his own internal bottom line.  What do I believe (as distinct from what the world tells me I should believe)?

NN in the 4th House
The means of realizing the evolutionary intent of the PPP, the Soul relies on the NN as the facilitator of this intention.  The 4th House is the house that symbolized ego and self-image, and also family.  Whereas the 10th House SN could be said to have been a citizen of the particular culture in which it lived, the parameters of the 4th House Soul is much more limited - to that of home/family/mother - and to the ego development that arises naturally from these more fundamental structures.  This Soul is needing to understand itself as distinct from its social role for further growth to occur and perhaps to avail itself to a much smaller group of people.  In terms of the 2 steps forward and 1 step back manner of proceeding, the Soul, during the 1 step back phase, would retreat to the smaller (and hopefully more nurturing) realm of family to begin the necessary process of determining just who it is and thus from there understanding how it can meet its own needs (as opposed to meeting those needs through the process of merging with external sources of power).  If gender switching were manifest and accepted (individuated/spiritual), then this Soul's values could be determined by a large extent by the discovery and acceptance of the inner reality, assuming the larger culture was biased against such expression.  In the case of a Consensus Soul, I am wondering how this would play out?  Would the valued be defined, in a sense, by the very denial of who s/he is?  And would the family be the primary source of support for this denial?  In other words, the family would still be the "womb" to which the Soul retreated, but they would support an essential denial.  The other question I have is, would the family always be a source of support?  What if it were not?  The Soul is thrown back on the family due to some form of social betrayal, yet the family itself is a source of betrayal.  In this case, this Soul is then being asked to develop its value system independent of anyone else and thus s/he is completely on her/his own with regard to self-sustenance.  In this case the need for this Soul is to learn the s/he can be her/his own source of self-sufficiency"¦"¦"¦"¦.?

Thanks, Rad.  Looking forward to your feedback"¦.

[Dhyana]

Hi Rad, All,

I am going to try to get to this practice chart but it may take me longer than usual bc of the holiday rush with the children and family. Plus, my computer charger broke and I have to borrow a charger in order to keep it powered. Hopefully I will be getting a new mac charger soon.

I just wanted you to know that I am gonna try, but it wont be as timely as my last two.

Thanks,
Dhyana

[Rad]

Hi Ellen,

Hi Rad,

Here's what I've come up with so far...

Pluto in the 8th House
The Soul with Pluto in the 8th House has experienced lifetimes in which the means of growth has been the experiencing of power (what is within) and powerlessness (what is without).

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This is a descriptive statement. EA requires an understanding as to the why of anything. Any EA analysis must start with an understanding about the prior life desires that the Soul has had, and why. Thus, with the 8th House Pluto what has the Soul been desiring, and why, within the archetypal parameters of the 8th House ? Even using those words about power and powerlessness why would the Soul desire that ? And, within that, what constitutes power and powerless in this archetype ?

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This Soul has been compelled to transcend the limits of her/his own power by merging with that which has existed outside of her/himself.

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Why has the Soul been compelled to do that, and what is the evolutionary purpose or intent of merging with that which has existed outside of itself ? If that occurred what would then happen, and for what reasons ? The use of the word 'merging' must be understood in the context of the 8th House Soul forming 'relationships' to a variety of symbols that correlate with the Soul's desire to grow, to metamorphose it's existing state of reality. This requires a inner confrontation within itself relative to the limits of what it already is and knows about itself, or it can require, if inner denial is in place about the nature of it's existing reality that manifests as a compulsion to sustain that existing reality at all costs, as external confrontation in which the nature of that inner resistance is then realized.

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In this way this Soul has provided for itself a means of knowing that it would not otherwise have had access to.

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This is one way. It is entirely possible within the 8th House Pluto archetype for the Soul itself, within itself, to realize that nature of it's own existing limitations, the reasons for those limitation, and desiring from within itself to access whatever will symbolize growth and evolution beyond those limitations.

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  As symbolized by the Scorpion, this process has led to experiences of profound betrayal that have themselves led to a deep inward reflection, led ever deeper by the often painful question, "Why?" 

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What is the Souls intent of creating betrayals to itself leading to the question why ? And exactly what is the answer to that why relative to the Soul's need to create betrayal at all ? And, of course, the 8th House Pluto Soul has commonly betrayed others. So, again, why ?

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Through this deep reflection, the Soul in time has gained the capacity for a clear understanding of both what is within and what is without; the Soul, through its own pain and suffering, has learned to identify the deep psychological truths of both itself and others.  Understanding these truths, the Soul has then had to learn the way of the Phoenix: of stepping into the fire of its own emotional devastation and allowing itself to be purified and born anew.  Ultimately, that is what this house is about: death (to one's old self - powerlessness) and rebirth (to one's new self - power).

*****************************************************

Why does the 'old self' correlate with powerlessness , and the 'new self' with power ? It there has been emotional devastation in prior lives what has been the cause ? The evolutionary intent for ? And is it not also possible within this archetype for the Soul to have caused emotional devastation to others ? And, if so, why ? What has been the cause ? The intent ?

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SN in the 10th House
The SN in the 10th House has facilitated the Soul's intention in prior lifetimes.  Because the 10th House is a cardinal archetype, right off the bat we know that the Soul's manner of proceeding has taken the form of 2 steps forward and 1 step back.  Thus perhaps the Soul has had to learn through trial and error which external objects to merge with and which to stay clear of; those that proved to be harmful would have led to the 1 step back scenario.  The 2 steps forward, 1 step back process can be understood as a process in which steps were taken into the external world (10th House), only to lead to "stings" (Scorpion), prompting 1 step back into the world of deep inner reflection.  In this way, through this manner of learning, the Soul slowly learned to navigate its world.  The world that this Soul has been navigating has been the world of social context and social expectation.  With the 10th House, there is a need to find one's place within the larger social context.  At yet another level, the question, "Who am I?" is being asked here.  And this Soul's manner of finding the answer to that question has been to merge with external objects of power in the social arena, including position and status (Consensus), (what would the individuated Soul be merging with? - perhaps political change groups??), and spiritual traditions/lineages and gurus for the person in the Spiritual stage.

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It is not a matter of "merging" with objects of power within the world at all here. The 10th House archetype requires learning the rules of the road in any society of birth in order to actualize a work or career. This then requires concrete steps to be taken over a period of time ( 10th House correlates with time ). So, for example, let's say the 8th House Pluto desired within itself to become a psychologist. Even though the Soul may indeed be a 'natural psychologist' because of the prior lifetimes that lead to a natural understanding of human psychology, the Soul would then have to understand how to actualize that perceived inner capacity within the context of the 'rules of the road' in the society of birth. And then make a decision to either go through the steps necessary to actualize it, or not. In other words, it can't just happen through merging with becoming a psychologist without taken those concrete steps to do so.

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There is also the question of gender identity with the 4th/10th axis.  The Consensus Soul would not be consciously aware of this issue and would work to suppress it.  The early individuated Soul would experience this quite intensely as a primary reason for the 1 step back part of the process, with the 1 step back hindering self-actualization in the social arena.  Yet this experience would advance their evolution in the best cases.  Later individuated would still experience the 1 step back, but they would emerge in a new way, in possession of their personal power and thus able to step into their social function.  The person in the early spiritual stage would be thrown back on itself without realizing her/his full power in the world while the later stage spiritual Soul would emerge from the 1 step back process with both male and female aspects of itself fully integrated and thus from this place step into its social role.  The 2nd stage spiritual Soul might experience disgrace of some sort in response to its failure to recognized the limits of what it in fact knew.

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The 8th House Pluto in relation to the 10th House S.Node is a Soul that has already been spending a great deal of time within the same gender. It is the 4th House N.Node that can correlate with the evolutionary need to switch genders for a series of lifetimes. When this is the case, which it often is, the Soul will simply feel an inner foreignness to the new gender at birth. This will be true at all Evolutionary levels or conditions of evolution. There is no general 'rule' that dictates how the Soul will deal with that inner foreignness. One must look at the totality of the birth chart of each to know how that will be responded too, and for what reasons.

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PPP in the 2nd House
The evolutionary intent of the Soul can be seen by the 2nd House.  The primary archetype of the 2nd House is self-sufficiency.  As the Soul experiences the realities of powerlessness that s/he encounters in the external world, and as these experiences throw her/him back in on her/himself, s/he begins to recognize the importance of learning self-sufficiency; rather than being at the mercy of the larger social context - rather than trying to find one's place by fitting into something outside her/himself - s/he begins to uncover her/his own values - her/his own bottom lines.  And from this place emerges the possibility of self-sustainability.  The 2nd House is also about tunneling down one's perspective.  So in a sense what the Soul is needing to do is to withdraw her/his attention from the external world of the 10th House and direct it inwardly, towards her/his own internal bottom line.  What do I believe (as distinct from what the world tells me I should believe)?

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The core archetype of the 2nd House is one about one's on inner relationship to oneself. Within that what one needs for that inner relationship to be realized and actualized. Those 'needs' then correlate with a combination of learning how to supply one's own needs leading to being relatively self reliant, with the real 'needs' that external conditions can only meet in order for that inner relationship to be fully developed. In turn this then correlates to what will constitute 'meaning' for the Soul, the meaning for one's life, and, in turn, what the Soul will then value. This includes one's inner sexual relationship with oneself, and what then constitutes sexual meaning for the Soul: what the Soul needs sexually from others as a function of the Soul's inner relationship to it's own sexual nature.

Relative to this paradigm this all means that the Soul's orientation to the world, and it's inner self, is being fundamentally metamorphosed in the current life. What had constituted meaning before is now totally changing. How the person has been in relationship to others in totally changing. How the person is in the world at large, and for what reasons, is totally changing. What the person has valued before is totally changing. The Soul's orientation to it's own sexuality is totally changing.

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NN in the 4th House
The means of realizing the evolutionary intent of the PPP, the Soul relies on the NN as the facilitator of this intention.  The 4th House is the house that symbolized ego and self-image, and also family.  Whereas the 10th House SN could be said to have been a citizen of the particular culture in which it lived, the parameters of the 4th House Soul is much more limited - to that of home/family/mother - and to the ego development that arises naturally from these more fundamental structures.  This Soul is needing to understand itself as distinct from its social role for further growth to occur and perhaps to avail itself to a much smaller group of people.  In terms of the 2 steps forward and 1 step back manner of proceeding, the Soul, during the 1 step back phase, would retreat to the smaller (and hopefully more nurturing) realm of family to begin the necessary process of determining just who it is and thus from there understanding how it can meet its own needs (as opposed to meeting those needs through the process of merging with external sources of power).  If gender switching were manifest and accepted (individuated/spiritual), then this Soul's values could be determined by a large extent by the discovery and acceptance of the inner reality, assuming the larger culture was biased against such expression.  In the case of a Consensus Soul, I am wondering how this would play out?  Would the valued be defined, in a sense, by the very denial of who s/he is?  And would the family be the primary source of support for this denial?  In other words, the family would still be the "womb" to which the Soul retreated, but they would support an essential denial.  The other question I have is, would the family always be a source of support?  What if it were not?  The Soul is thrown back on the family due to some form of social betrayal, yet the family itself is a source of betrayal.  In this case, this Soul is then being asked to develop its value system independent of anyone else and thus s/he is completely on her/his own with regard to self-sustenance.  In this case the need for this Soul is to learn the s/he can be her/his own source of self-sufficiency"¦"¦"¦"¦.?

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All of that is possible, and more. Each case is unique to itself in the case of gender switching. The core archetype here, in combination with the natal Pluto, it's polarity point, and the 10th House S.Node is one of a total change, evolution, within the Soul of how it has been in the world, and how it learning how to be in the world in this life. There is simply so much to this that needs to be understood in full. For example, the entire archetype of 'judgments' and what has been the prior basis of those judgments. This of course includes self judgments, and why. Within this the entire archetype of guilt, and what has caused prior life guilt, and why. This in combination includes projecting judgments on others and for what reasons, and causing others to feel guilty, and for what reasons. Within this the issue of depression, and what has caused depression before, and why ? Within all of this is the issue of ambitions, and how ambitions has been actualized prior to the current life.

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Thanks, Rad.  Looking forward to your feedback"¦.

Ellen: You are making a great effort to understand EA. My hat is off to you because of. And it is in that spirit that I am now trying to help you think ever more deeply, realize ever more deeply, the fuller dimensions of the archetypes in the current paradigm we are working with. Every step you are making in your efforts is leading to just that.

God Bless, Rad

[Elen]

OMG, Rad!  Thank you (!) for your feedback.  I am actually laughing quite hard because I really thought I had gotten it!  I am so, so thankful for your feedback!  It shows me that there is so much MORE than I have been understanding.  And even though I thought I was getting it, somehow I always felt FRUSTRATED.  So I will think about what you have written, do some reading, see what others post and then try again!

Warmly,
Ellen

[mirta]

Hi Rad,
I would like to post a well written analysis.
But in some places I expressed my thinking in a "kindergarten" way because I know that  other way I am not able to transmit my thinking in English without leading to misunderstandings. In other cases I didn't find the correct english structure or the precise word, but I am concerned with exposing my reasoning by unfolding it, in order to know if I am in the right course.
It would be better if I only had Pluto1 in English, but I am reading it in Portuguese; and then I think in Spanish . . .what a mess!
For me, I think,it's a way to overcome limitations and humiliate my ego in a public, group situation [Moon in Gemini in 8th House, gibbous inconjunct Jupiter in Scorpio in 1st H.; Jupiter in FP inconjunct to Uranus (conjunct Moon)]. (I would only hope not needing harder or less safe situations to it. )
But you deserve something better. I am really sorry and very grateful.
I unite to the community prayer you propose. Best wishes and happy holiday to you too.

Pluto in 8th House, South Node in 10th House. PPP in 2nd House, NN in 4th.

Pluto in 8th House
This soul is and has been trying to face and overcome her own limitations, the limits of  her self, of who she is in opposition to what she is not.
The evolutionary intent has demanded, and demands the experience os these limitations and its metamorphosis in order to evolve.
Soul is - and have been in prior lives - becoming aware of forces, of power beyond herself; aware of other's resources, other's values and above all of universal forces.
This awareness has created and is still promoting the desire to evolve past its own limits.
The way she intended to transform these limitations was establishing realtionships with symbols that representd what she wanted or needed in order to evolve.
In this process she has experimented power and powerlessness. Power because of she already is. Powerlessness because of awareness of limitations (that has promoted evolution), and also because her own resistance to metamorphosis.
I mean, if her merging with symbols of power leads to metamorphosis, her power is increased in an evolutionary sense.
If this merging is only a fusion, or a way to absorbing external power without internal transformation, it would had and will have as a result a distortion manifested as manipulation or betrayal (she betrayals other people).
In any case she is learning to get power from these symbols.
The need of merging, of relating to them may be compulsive. Compulsion may be caused by resistance to get rid of old patterns that provided emotional security.
But we can't prevent evolution, only delaying it. Resistance, or even compulsion creates suffering and/or attraction of cataclismic events or difficult relatioships.
Guilt may also be the cause of some compulsions.
Only the individual chart and experience will add precision in determination of hte karmic and evolutionary  reasons of it.

Other fundamental need for this soul is finding out the causes, the deep motivations of anything. Asking Why? is a leading course and a leit motiv in her life.
Knowledge is power for her, in the best or in the worst sense.
In an undistorted way it is not only a matter of gaining power,  but of attaining this power penetrating the core of all dynamics; and living it as a way to transcend limitations, to metamorphosis.
This need and ability to understand every core dynamics produces a individual who is a spontaneous psychologist who understands and helps others, but also a potential manipulator in relationships, or both.
It depends on karmic and evolutionary conditions.

The path of evolution is not directly progressive. This soul threads it through cyclical alternation of experiences of power and powerlessness.
These cycles are caused by the antithetical desires in the soul.Desires of symbolical death and rebirthing in a new level, like the caterpillar needs competely die in order to become a butterfly.
The separative desire requires periods of stabilization of the new level and protection of the expanded limits. So far it may be healthy, evolutionary proces is slow and hasten it may be dangerous.
But the protected areas may become stagnant.
Even in a healthy process soul will feel so in certain moments. The meaning, the goal,would be to promote deep analysis in order to understand who she is, why it is so, what is the evolutionary intent.

SN in 10th House
Some reflections:
-I wonder how 8th House fixity realtes to 10th House archetypal need of structure and stability. And therefore, what degree of chaos this soul can tolerate.
8th house metamorphosis demands chaos, obsolete patterns must be destroyed. On the other hand, in 10th house archetype desire to access chaos often creates a reaction of more control, external or internal.
Karmic and evolutionary conditions will reflect that, SN sign and ruler would provide further information.
-the search for causes can have support in SN ability and need of reflection. Self analysis, social analysis and motivations could have been deep and resposible.
-10th H. resposibility and respect for rules could help in appropriate choices and commitments.
But distortions of all of that are also possible.

In her search of knowing and transforming limitations, in  former lives this soul has been learning to establish her individuality and authority in a social context.
This involved learning to relate and integrating her identity in a social structure.
I wonder how this integration was made. Was it within the Saturnian, structuring limits of this house, of the social context?; Was it by means of an evolutionary osmosis, a metamorphosis?; or was it by fusion with distorted ways of obtaining power, understanding how the system works in order to manipulate?
Again, karmic and evolutionany conditions will reveal that, other factors in the chart will help to trace possibilities.

With pluto in 8th House, this soul is becoming aware of the limits between who she is and who or what is she not. In 10th house the limits and parameters are given by social function or position. So, in former lives she has learned to define individuality by means of, or within, the social function.
How did she done it? Some hypothesis are:
a)Social position has determined, fixed, her limits preventing its transformation and the attainment of higher levels of evolution. That happened  because she  was attached to her need of  emotional security. Then powerlessness and stagnation was felt.
This could have promoted reflection leading to awareness of her motivations and internal dynamics that started the evolutionary process and metamorphosis or moved it on.
Negatively, depression or pessimism would have been the result.
-Another factor that could have blocked the evolutionary impulse to relate with social sources of power in a transformative way is guilt.
In this paradigm there may be either
-learned guilt caused by cultural or social judgements projected upon the soul or introjected by her.
-or natural guilt caused by violations to Natural Law manipulating others in realtionships, or improperly acting to obtain social power or success, or betraying.
b)Soul merged with sources of social power as a way to expand her limits
b.1.-She could do it learning lessons of self-determination and discipline in order to find a social position and learning to be responsible.
This would have provided her awareness of power, understanding of social functioning, and the ability to attain a position of control, not allowing society to control her.
This could have lead to a transformative attitude, in which the individual employs her power plus the
social power incorporated (or learned) to help society to evolve.
In consensus state, she helps society to evolve towards an honest and responsible consensus.
In individuated, helping to decondition from judging or reactionary man made laws and morality.
In spiritual state her spiritual authority would help humanity to realign with Natural Law.
In that case, 10th's house arena would have been a safe container for the power unfolded or obtained.
b.2.-The individual learned self determination and discipline but in a separative, egocentric way.
She also learned how social system works employing 8th house Pluto ability to penetrate in its basic structure. But she uses it in order to manipulate the system, or people, in her own benefit. Goals justify means is a justification.
If her understanding of system is  in finding out that corruption, for example, is the "modus operandi", then her way of gaining power would be corrupting herself. Or destroying who stands in her way.
Projected guilt, or resentment and revenge desire based on former frustrations or betrayals may be the motives or the justification of these behaviors.
Over identification with career in former lives may also be a reason for that, or can create karmic problems in future lives if it is so currently.
c)Merging with social power symbols occured absorbing consensus limiting patterns and parameters.
Powerlessness and cyclical confrontations can arise.
Guilt may be the cause, because of an inner feeling of not deserving more. Or unconscious memories of persecutions because of violations man made rules, or even only transgression of man made rules.
This individual is potentially a repressor of other people, consciously or not.

Awareness of mortality from an egocentric point of view can stimulate an opportunity sense and further individual evolution or promote it in the social arena.
Positively, awareness of a limited amount of time triggers emotional maturation and reflection, consciousness of the need of change and  implementing the proper steps to it.
Pluto in 8th house promotes apprehension of timeless values, 10th house SN tries to apply them temporally, worldly.
Negatively, because of preponderance os a separative point of view, depression or frustrations may arise.

PPP in 2nd House
For evolution to proceed this soul needs developing self reliance and recognizing her/his own values in order to attain personal independece. Over-identification with other's values must be overcome.
Situations generated by NN in 4th house will help to attain an inner sense of self worth based on internal security.
In a general sense she needs learning to reduce or eliminate dependences on external sources of power.
The soul learns to allow that his deep self analysis and merging with power symbols produces a metamorphosis in her own resources or values, so that she doesn't depend anymore.
Looking within to find out her power, becoming her own symbol of transformation she will find what she really needs, and what are her essential needs of survival, not only in a material, biological or social sense.
That involves discernement between material, emotional and spiritual needs, and an internal definition of her way of living in the world, integrated but not depending.
This way, an identification of her essential identity will replace social masks and over identification with social roles.
She would  become self motivated and able to encourage other's development without manipulating or allowing dependences on her.

NN in 4th House
Learning to develop internal security as a base of identity makes self reliance possible.
The individual is learning to see herself without the traps, delusions and security based on social function or career, and attains a self actualization not dependent on success or status.
Familial situations or problems, with parents or children will provide emotional lessons that promote self analysis based on internal emotions. Accepting that she establishes internal security and eliminates dependece on external sources os power.
Professional problems, obstacles to success or loss of social position at birth can also be the opportunity for that learning. She would propably have to face both type of situations.
And the causes may be founded in evolutionary need or consequence of former abuses of power or manipulative attitudes.
Again, deep self analysis and self support is the goal; also reflection about how career provides emotional security.
If she reacts positively, this reflections will allow her to find within the source of power (although she knows that other sources exist, the frog is already out of the well), and becoming her own symbol of transformation.
Learning to internalize her need of security she develops a detached attitude with regard to possesions and success.
She learns also that values and convictions that rule her life are subjective, and this learning diminishes over-identification with other's or social values. Thus she doesn't judge or repress herself or other people according to the social morality criteria; instead of that her behavior will be ruled by ethical criteria, universal principles, based on Natural Law.
Self analysis and self knowledge lead to accept her responsibility and better manifest the potential of commitment.It would also be the founfation of self determination and honesty, which means not more manipulating.
God Bless
Mirta

[Rad]

Hi Mirta,

First, there is no need for you to have to apologize because of trying to work with English. You are conveying yourself just fine. Everything in your analysis of the current paradigm is possible within the total spectrum of the archetypes that we are working with. You are making a wonderful effort, and I can already see the progression of your capacity to synthesize and integrate the paradigm itself. I remember Wolf sharing about his books going into so many different languages, and how the nature of the languages themselves altered in some ways the nature of what he wrote. And, not only that, but how the nature of the languages would change how long or short the Pluto books would be. If I remember correctly his first Pluto book in English was something like 340 pages. Yet in German that went up to almost 500 pages. If I remember right the Portuguese one was less than 300 pages, etc, etc, etc. So for you to be reading it in Portuguese then thinking it in Spanish, and then trying to write it in English is quite a feat ! In any case your are progressing very well Mirta.

God Bless, Rad

[mirta]

HI Rad,
Thank you so much for your feedback. I am happy with it.
Rad, portuguese version of Pulto 1 has 399 pages. Portuguese and spanish are extended and descriptive languages. Many times we use a complete sentence to say what you express with a verb and a preposition; English defines very much with prepositions (German too). And that's why I use that kindergarten style, because I don't manage it and I know that if I change only one word I am not saying what I mean.
I also remember reading somewhere Jeffrey saying that he didn't accept a German translation and that he doesn't matter with language correction, but with the meaning. I believe portuguese version is correct in meaning (I don't find conceptual differences with the DVD course or Deva's book), although it is not fluent to read. But is still Pluto 1, and that is important.
Thanks again, Rad.
God Bless
Mirta

[Rad]

Hi Mirta,

Gosh, thanks for letting me know about the version in Portuguese. I just remembered it wrong from Wolf had said I guess. I do remember he was upset with the German version because they had managed to reverse on of the core principles in EA. I don't remember what that was exactly though. I remember too the French version had quite a time of it since they don't really have a word for Soul either. I know there used to be a Spanish version too, but don't know if that one is in print anymore. I do know too the Bulgarian version I have was very good at translating the core principles accurately.

God Bless, Rad

[mirta]

Yes, Rad, the Spanish version of Pluto is out of print.
It seeems like Uranus also, I don't find it in the Internet, but somebody told me that in Spain there would be some copies available.
God Bless
Mirta

[maggie]

Happy New Year 

H Rad, here's my plug at the new chart..a little long and drawn out!. I think the 8th house qualities were working overtime here Ha Ha! Im wondering if i should bring it into a client type context?? ..Not sure?. Hoping the New Year brings peace and enlightenment for all at E.A.
The core evolutionary desires of the 8th house Pluto soul ; those which have preceeded the current life. The Scorpio 8th house individual will desire to experience the lessons of Who it is..what it is..and more importantly; what it is not and will never be. It is through the duality of Pluto (Scorpio/soul) and its mix of 'lower'octave Mars (Aires/Self) that the individual will desire to understand the complexities of its own essence/existance in order measure its personal power in this context...Its innate ability to penetrate/analyize/merge with the body/mind of another/others in order to compare/validate its personal power in the larger reality (10th house). Mars/Aires asks WHO am I? and Pluto/Scorpio asks the deeper question..WHY am I?..this duality ensures this soul is 'well equipped' to learn its evolutionary lessons...the Mars/Aires and its energetic Who? and the deep and penetrating Scorpio/Pluto Why?.. a spirit/flesh duality. The 8th house soul will use its instinctive/impulsive(Aires) and the analytical/psychological (Pluto)  'power' to experience/examine/understand and evaluate its inner self/ personal power in order to understand its relativity/security within society/universe. The 8th house desires to experience ALL relationships/associations with another/others/God/ess. This ability to penetrate/osmose the body/mind of self/another/others and in extremes; the essence of another; can/does create distortion and trauma.. In its desire/search for true security (4th house) the experience/understanding of these 10th house lessons will depend on the souls evolutionary state..and sadly in true Scorpio style 'That which is hidden needs to be unearthed ' .. To be a 'God' amongst men has been the pre-occupation of man throughout human existance.The alchemists, the satanists, the religious zelots; illuminati, the rituals of sex, magic/ human sacrifice, some present day geneticists..all manner of distortions..in an attempt to obtain ultimate power/ immortality and the ' psuedo' security of the 10th .. It is only through the emotional body; the 4th house ppp that true security is learned and understood. All souls will naturally experience the 8th house lessons; Pluto is the soul. We all experience the grief of losing a loved one through physical death or the emotional loss of another.. the emotional/psychological pain this brings, the loss of family/friends/lovers.. even our beloved pets.. With the egocentric structure and mode of operation being SN 10th (Saturn/Capricorn) the soul has desired to confront its mortality; its limitations ..that which it is not. It is by desiring/experiencing the evolutionary lessons of the 10th ..that the soul desires to learn the true extent of our mortality/ power..we are powerless in the face of life and death....we are as mortal as the next man. Here all souls are faced with the 8th house futility... the limitation of the 10th house reality/flesh...and the needs of that reality/ flesh. The often painful lessons of the 10th teach us that we cannot control the nature of all things ....in the 10th we come face to face with our limitations..we cannot prevent the death of another soul. This distortions of this train of thought..positively or negatively will be dependant on the choices we make. 2nd house PPP  The core evolutionary desires that have proceeded the present life..The soul would naturally gravitate towards the 2nd house (Taurus/Venus) PP specifically because of the 2nd houses' natural insticts toward self presevation, personal security and ultimately the self reliance/ power to maintain that level of 'earthly' survival (Taurus)..Scorpio wants to examine the dynamics of the 2nd...in its need for both security and power.What it really finds here is the true meaning of 'relationship'. Here it learns to empower itself/another/others within the boundaries of 10th house reality. The soul learns to honour and value self, to love/understand self; to love/understand another/others  in a healthy and simplistic way. Through the 2nd house polarity; we learn how to transmute (Scorpio) our personal power for the good of self/other/others and the collective.The soul will desire to experience and understand the true nature of another, learn to positively enhance the mind of another ..to naturally experience the body of another with selfless motivation, with no hidden agendas: Aren't we all changed through the power of love? (Venus). Many emotionally mature 8th house souls have used their intense sense of purpose and personal power through their relationships/associations in business/science/neighbourhoods/ etc, they have recognised the needs of others and have shared the self/knowledge/ and used that in a philanthropic way.The need for the evolving ego to experience its full potential will be done by working toward the NN 4th house(Cancer)  It is through the emotional body that the lesson of true security is felt and understood..The 8th house evolutionary intent to find inner security is done so through the 4th house polarity. It has 'uncovered' and understood in the10th/2nd its power to enpower/sustain self/another in that 10th house reality. In the 4th it finds the true meaning of security..inner security .Here the soul learns to feel secure to feel self assured/self reliant and no longer looks to control/manipulate/overpower another/others or any natural law in order to find security. It is here in the 4th that the soul  experiences the natural balance/completion of the water triad Cancer/emotional, Scorpio/ psychological. It is here that it will acknowledge that at the end of its journey..when all seperating desires have been exhausted the soul will naturally merge again with the true and ultimate power and selfless/unconditional love of God/ess( 12th house/Pisces).
Light for your Journey
Thanks Rad!
Maggie

[Rad]

Hi Maggie,

Happy New Year 

H Rad, here's my plug at the new chart..a little long and drawn out!. I think the 8th house qualities were working overtime here Ha Ha! Im wondering if i should bring it into a client type context?? ..Not sure?. Hoping the New Year brings peace and enlightenment for all at E.A.
The core evolutionary desires of the 8th house Pluto soul ; those which have preceeded the current life. The Scorpio 8th house individual will desire to experience the lessons of Who it is..what it is..and more importantly; what it is not and will never be. It is through the duality of Pluto (Scorpio/soul) and its mix of 'lower'octave Mars (Aires/Self) that the individual will desire to understand the complexities of its own essence/existance in order measure its personal power in this context...Its innate ability to penetrate/analyize/merge with the body/mind of another/others in order to compare/validate its personal power in the larger reality (10th house). Mars/Aires asks WHO am I? and Pluto/Scorpio asks the deeper question..WHY am I?..this duality ensures this soul is 'well equipped' to learn its evolutionary lessons...the Mars/Aires and its energetic Who? and the deep and penetrating Scorpio/Pluto Why?.. a spirit/flesh duality. The 8th house soul will use its instinctive/impulsive(Aires) and the analytical/psychological (Pluto)  'power' to experience/examine/understand and evaluate its inner self/ personal power in order to understand its relativity/security within society/universe. The 8th house desires to experience ALL relationships/associations with another/others/God/ess. This ability to penetrate/osmose the body/mind of self/another/others and in extremes; the essence of another; can/does create distortion and trauma..

************************************

Why ? And what distortions and traumas would that be ?

*****************************************

In its desire/search for true security (4th house) the experience/understanding of these 10th house lessons will depend on the souls evolutionary state..and sadly in true Scorpio style 'That which is hidden needs to be unearthed ' .. To be a 'God' amongst men has been the pre-occupation of man throughout human existance.The alchemists, the satanists, the religious zelots; illuminati, the rituals of sex, magic/ human sacrifice, some present day geneticists..all manner of distortions..in an attempt to obtain ultimate power/ immortality and the ' psuedo' security of the 10th .. It is only through the emotional body; the 4th house ppp that true security is learned and understood. All souls will naturally experience the 8th house lessons; Pluto is the soul. We all experience the grief of losing a loved one through physical death or the emotional loss of another.. the emotional/psychological pain this brings, the loss of family/friends/lovers.. even our beloved pets.. With the egocentric structure and mode of operation being SN 10th (Saturn/Capricorn) the soul has desired to confront its mortality; its limitations ..that which it is not. It is by desiring/experiencing the evolutionary lessons of the 10th ..that the soul desires to learn the true extent of our mortality/ power..we are powerless in the face of life and death....we are as mortal as the next man. Here all souls are faced with the 8th house futility... the limitation of the 10th house reality/flesh...and the needs of that reality/ flesh. The often painful lessons of the 10th teach us that we cannot control the nature of all things ....in the 10th we come face to face with our limitations..we cannot prevent the death of another soul. This distortions of this train of thought..positively or negatively will be dependant on the choices we make. 2nd house PPP  The core evolutionary desires that have proceeded the present life..The soul would naturally gravitate towards the 2nd house (Taurus/Venus) PP specifically because of the 2nd houses' natural insticts toward self presevation, personal security and ultimately the self reliance/ power to maintain that level of 'earthly' survival (Taurus)..Scorpio wants to examine the dynamics of the 2nd...in its need for both security and power.What it really finds here is the true meaning of 'relationship'. Here it learns to empower itself/another/others within the boundaries of 10th house reality. The soul learns to honour and value self, to love/understand self; to love/understand another/others  in a healthy and simplistic way. Through the 2nd house polarity; we learn how to transmute (Scorpio) our personal power for the good of self/other/others and the collective.The soul will desire to experience and understand the true nature of another, learn to positively enhance the mind of another ..to naturally experience the body of another with selfless motivation, with no hidden agendas:

************************************************************************

Selfless motivations, and no hidden agendas would not apply in the 2nd House polarity. The archetype of Taurus, the 2nd House, and the Taurus side of Venus is all about personal needs, and the inner relationship with oneself that creates those needs. Relative to the 8th House Pluto those personal needs can certainly correlate to 'hidden agendas' wherein the motives are in fact based on what the Soul/ self needs.

***************************************************************************

Aren't we all changed through the power of love? (Venus). Many emotionally mature 8th house souls have used their intense sense of purpose and personal power through their relationships/associations in business/science/neighbourhoods/ etc, they have recognised the needs of others and have shared the self/knowledge/ and used that in a philanthropic way.The need for the evolving ego to experience its full potential will be done by working toward the NN 4th house(Cancer)  It is through the emotional body that the lesson of true security is felt and understood..The 8th house evolutionary intent to find inner security is done so through the 4th house polarity. It has 'uncovered' and understood in the10th/2nd its power to enpower/sustain self/another in that 10th house reality. In the 4th it finds the true meaning of security..inner security .Here the soul learns to feel secure to feel self assured/self reliant and no longer looks to control/manipulate/overpower another/others or any natural law in order to find security. It is here in the 4th that the soul  experiences the natural balance/completion of the water triad Cancer/emotional, Scorpio/ psychological. It is here that it will acknowledge that at the end of its journey..when all seperating desires have been exhausted the soul will naturally merge again with the true and ultimate power and selfless/unconditional love of God/ess( 12th house/Pisces).

***************************************************************************

Ultimately yes that would be true. However, most Soul's on Earth have not reached the evolutionary place of total exhaustion of all separating desires. Given that fact what type of experiences would the Soul create for itself in order to learn the 4th House lessons ?

**********************************************************************

From an organizational point of view it would be much better if you could at first say whatever you wish to say about the 8th House Pluto. Then, say whatever you wish to say about how those 8th House archetypes were actualized via the 10th House S.Node. From there you can share whatever you wish to say about the 2nd House polarity point, and, from there how this becomes actualized via the 4th House N.Node. A sequential presentation in this way makes it much easier to follow your thoughts.

A good effort Maggie.

God Bless, Rad

[mountainheather]

Hi Rad,
I've been away, and would still like to participate. Probably won't get to post until later in the week , but don't want to hold anything up here... Will the weekend be soon enough? Oh and likewise for the planetary nodes thread...
Thank you, Heather

[Rad]

Hi moutainheather,

That's just fine.

God Bless, Rad