NEW PRACTICE CHART THREAD FOR BEGINNERS

[Wendy]

Hello All,

I truly wanted to participate in this thread and haven't been able to thus far-my cat has been very ill, maybe dying and I have been working quite a bit.  Hope I can participate in the future.

Blessings,
Wendy 

[Elen]

Quote from Rad: In this paradigm, so far, we can not say that the Soul 'came in' with a desire to align with Natural Laws.


Hi Rad,

Is this simply because we don't yet know the evolutionary stage of this Soul?  Or is there more reason for your statement above....?

Thank you,
Ellen

[Rad]

Hi Ellen,

By phrasing it that way, 'came in with', implies that the Soul has a conscious desire to do so. There are millions of Soul's on our planet that have a 9th House Pluto who do not have such a desire.

God Bless, Rad

[Elen]

Hi Rad,

I am wondering if Souls in the spiritual state would have that conscious desire...........

Thank you,
Ellen

[Elen]

Rad's Quote:There is nothing in this paradigm that correlates to loosing their own sense of individuality.

Hi Rad,
Is there a paradigm/archetype that would/could indicate this?

The Soul's sense of individuality is a function of the relationships that it forms with others in general, and an intimate other specifically, in which the asking and answering of the 9th House type of questions occurs.. The underlying issue, again, is the co-dependency upon others in general, and intimate others specifically, in terms of the asking and answering the 9th House questions.

I wanted to throw this out there so that I could get your response because I'm confused about the term co-dependency.  I had always understood co-dependency to involve "losing oneself" or "giving oneself away".  But you are saying this is not true.  I guess I am confused about terms - from co-dependency to dependency to "losing oneself".........

Thanks, Rad.  I appreciate any response you are able to give.

Peace,
Ellen

[Skywalker]

Rad,

I apologize for slipping off this practice chart thread for some time, I have been traveling and have been completing some other projects. As soon as possible I will jump on board again.

Thank you for your support and for understanding.

[Elen]

Pluto in the 9th House

The Soul with Pluto in the 9th House will have had the experience of its overall perspective being expanded.   The need for this Soul will have been the need for freedom to explore whatever belief system or culture or philosophy it felt naturally drawn to.  Being exposed to these different views and realities will have had the effect of shifting and expanding its understanding of "truth".  This Soul will have encountered experiences that challenged it with regard to honesty.  In this life, due to the wandering type of existence this Soul has experienced in prior lives, there will be a sense of loneliness that perpetuates the need and desire to continue its search: what out there resonates with what I believe/know/understand?  In some cases, the Soul will be born into a culture that resonates with its own beliefs/knowledge/understanding.  Thus, while there will still be a sense of loneliness, it will be ameliorated some in this type of situation.  In this case, the Soul will deeply explore the beliefs/values/customs of the culture into which it was born, deepening its understanding of the world around it and its place in it.  In other cases the Soul will be born into cultures that feel alien to it.  In these cases, the Soul will continue to wander and search for that outside it which resonates to what it intuitively knows inside.

SN in the 7th

With the SN in the 7th house, the Soul has relied on his one-on-one contacts with others as his primary means of searching.  In his encounters with the other, he has been exposed to beliefs/ knowledge/ philosophies that have challenged and thus expanded his own intuitive understanding of the world and universe.  In past lives he may have been the student teaching the other or he may have been the teacher expounding to the other what he intuitively knew, but since the archetype of Libra is one of equality, these types of relationships would have contributed to the feeling of aloneness as his real desire would have been to relate equally to another.  Perhaps the sense of special purpose that this Soul has felt has prevented him from being able to let go of the role of teacher or student, thus perpetuating the inner feeling of loneliness born out of the intrinsic inequality of these kinds of relationships.   There also seems to be another potential bind here.  This Soul will have an intuitive understanding of something, but perhaps not yet the ability to communicate what he knows.  Combining this with the sense of special destiny this Soul may feel, and also with the tendency toward inequality and extremes in the Libra archetype, the Soul may feel superior to others, thus preventing the realization of the true intent of the Libran archetype: equality.

PPP in the 3rd House

The Soul in this lifetime is desiring to learn how to communicate to others what it intuitively knows.  This desire, whether conscious or not, will continually lead this Soul to explore more left-brained, analytical systems of thought that help him to give voice to what he knows in ways that others can understand.  I am thinking that the 3rd house archetype would indicate that in this lifetime he is less likely to travel far and wide but instead will encounter resistance in his more immediate community/environment and that it will be these encounters that will stimulate his need/desire to pursue ways and learning that will allow him to articulate what he knows so that others can understand.  Perhaps in prior lives his position was such (royalty?) that he didn't need to be concerned with whether or not others understood him.  But in this life that is not the case.  Even his siblings will require that he explain his understanding in a way that they can understand.

NN in the 1st House

With the NN in the 1st house, this Soul will be driven in this lifetime to find answers to the question: Who am I?  Because so much of the Soul's identity in the past has been defined in relation to the other, there is a need in this lifetime to come to an understanding of who he is separate from the other.  It is possible, with the Aries archetype, that there will be angry confrontations with others that will force this Soul to begin to actualize the 3rd house PPP - the need to learn how to articulate what it intuitively knows so that others can understand.  Thus in this way the NN would act as a facilitator to the PPP.  There would also be in this lifetime an intrinsic evolutionary need for freedom.  Thus, with the Libran opposition signifying the past, it seems like the need would be to break free from relationship patterns that were no longer growth-promoting.  These relationship patterns would be those based on inequality.  The confrontations that the Soul experiences in this lifetime would awaken the Soul to this inequality and thus awaken the Soul's desire for equal relationships.  The struggle (because it is the NN and thus not familiar) would be to learn to define himself independently from the other and to learn to stand on his own.  With the PPP in the 3rd, his way of doing this will be to pursue the knowledge systems that help him to more clearly define and articulate his intuitive sense of things.  By doing this, he will gradually relate to others as equals, recognizing that his way/understanding is only one of many and that relationship is about 2 equals sharing with others what they know and 2 equals respecting each others differences.

One final thought
One thing I didn't address in this archetype is the possibility that this Soul will have the tendency of feeling/believing that it can't do it on its own.  I think this feeling would contribute to the sense of inner isolation the Soul feels because he would not be claiming his full power.  The Aries NN will force this Soul in this lifetime to begin to define himself as an independent being - and this according to the requirements of the PPP (ie, by pursuing more left-brained ways of understanding and communicating).  This process will have the effect of alleviating that inner sense of isolation/loneliness.

[Rad]

Hi Ellen,

Hi Rad,

I am wondering if Souls in the spiritual state would have that conscious desire...........

Thank you,
Ellen

***********************************

The underlying desire within the Spiritual State is to understand the nature of Creation, and the natural laws of the manifested Creation.

*************************************

God Bless, Rad

[Rad]

Hi Ellen,

Rad's Quote:There is nothing in this paradigm that correlates to loosing their own sense of individuality.

Hi Rad,
Is there a paradigm/archetype that would/could indicate this?

*****************************************************

There are a variety of possible paradigms that could correlate with this if we understand 'loosing their own sense of individuality' as a total loss of individual/ egocentric identity. Understood in exactly that way would then mean that the Soul has become something like an automaton that manifests as the Soul simply being as extension of others expectations. More darkly, this automaton like condition for the Soul could also occur as a function of being brainwashed by another or others. And the very worse cases would involve being 'possessed' by evil entities.

******************************************************************


The Soul's sense of individuality is a function of the relationships that it forms with others in general, and an intimate other specifically, in which the asking and answering of the 9th House type of questions occurs.. The underlying issue, again, is the co-dependency upon others in general, and intimate others specifically, in terms of the asking and answering the 9th House questions.

I wanted to throw this out there so that I could get your response because I'm confused about the term co-dependency.  I had always understood co-dependency to involve "losing oneself" or "giving oneself away".  But you are saying this is not true.  I guess I am confused about terms - from co-dependency to dependency to "losing oneself".........

************************************************************************

Seems it depends on how is going to understand the word co-dependency. To me this does not correlate to 'loosing oneself' at all. To me it means that one's sense of reality and identity is dependent on others to sustain one's sense of individual reality and identity. The core dynamics of course being dependency, dependent upon. That would be very different than literally 'loosing oneself. Loosing oneself, to me, means that one's entire sense of individual identity has been lost: no sense of individual identity at all.

**********************************************************************

God Bless, Rad

[Rad]

Hi Skywalker,

Thanks for letting me know.

God Bless,Rad

[Rad]

Hi Ellen,

Pluto in the 9th House

The Soul with Pluto in the 9th House will have had the experience of its overall perspective being expanded.

***********************************

Prior to the current life this Soul has desired to expand it's understanding of the nature of life, of Creation................

*****************************************

   The need for this Soul will have been the need for freedom to explore whatever belief system or culture or philosophy it felt naturally drawn to.  Being exposed to these different views and realities will have had the effect of shifting and expanding its understanding of "truth".  This Soul will have encountered experiences that challenged it with regard to honesty.

***********************************************

Expand on the issue of honesty here if you can .........what challenges and why ?

**************************************************

In this life, due to the wandering type of existence this Soul has experienced in prior lives, there will be a sense of loneliness that perpetuates the need and desire to continue its search: what out there resonates with what I believe/know/understand?  In some cases, the Soul will be born into a culture that resonates with its own beliefs/knowledge/understanding.  Thus, while there will still be a sense of loneliness, it will be ameliorated some in this type of situation.  In this case, the Soul will deeply explore the beliefs/values/customs of the culture into which it was born, deepening its understanding of the world around it and its place in it.  In other cases the Soul will be born into cultures that feel alien to it.  In these cases, the Soul will continue to wander and search for that outside it which resonates to what it intuitively knows inside.

SN in the 7th

With the SN in the 7th house, the Soul has relied on his one-on-one contacts with others as his primary means of searching.  In his encounters with the other, he has been exposed to beliefs/ knowledge/ philosophies that have challenged and thus expanded his own intuitive understanding of the world and universe.  In past lives he may have been the student teaching the other or he may have been the teacher expounding to the other what he intuitively knew, but since the archetype of Libra is one of equality, these types of relationships would have contributed to the feeling of aloneness as his real desire would have been to relate equally to another.

******************************************************

Yes, but it's also entirely possible in this paradigm that the Soul forms relationships with others in general, and an intimate other specifically, wherein there is a equally shared philosophical/ religious understanding of the universe, or Creation. Thus, the aloneness would not exist at all when this occurs.

************************************************************

Perhaps the sense of special purpose that this Soul has felt has prevented him from being able to let go of the role of teacher or student, thus perpetuating the inner feeling of loneliness born out of the intrinsic inequality of these kinds of relationships. 

**************************************************************

Relative to just the Pluto in the 9th, and the S.Node in the 7th, there is nothing within those symbols that correlate to any sense of a 'special purpose'.

*******************************************************************

There also seems to be another potential bind here.  This Soul will have an intuitive understanding of something, but perhaps not yet the ability to communicate what he knows.

******************************************

This would only occur if the Soul was born into a culture, society, or tribe in which the consensus and  prevailing 'beliefs' of those groups created a sense of alienation within the Soul. The sense of alienation is born out of the 9th House Pluto. When that becomes the operational archetype then, yes, the Soul is intuitively sensing something deeper, larger, and different than those existing and prevailing beliefs of the group that it is born into. This then can create the affect of what you have said: the ability to communicate what the Soul intuitively feels or knows.

*****************************************************

  Combining this with the sense of special destiny this Soul may feel, and also with the tendency toward inequality and extremes in the Libra archetype, the Soul may feel superior to others, thus preventing the realization of the true intent of the Libran archetype: equality.



PPP in the 3rd House

The Soul in this lifetime is desiring to learn how to communicate to others what it intuitively knows.  This desire, whether conscious or not, will continually lead this Soul to explore more left-brained, analytical systems of thought that help him to give voice to what he knows in ways that others can understand.  I am thinking that the 3rd house archetype would indicate that in this lifetime he is less likely to travel far and wide but instead will encounter resistance in his more immediate community/environment and that it will be these encounters that will stimulate his need/desire to pursue ways and learning that will allow him to articulate what he knows so that others can understand.

******************************************************

The existing paradigm does not correlate to restricting the travel of this Soul. Wherever the Soul is the archetype and analysis you are describing would occur. This polarity point can also mean, for example, that the Soul is literally designing a life in which it's existing philosophical understandings of life, which the Soul may attempt to prove and ram down people's throats in order for the Soul to feel secure, is aggressively challenged and confronted by others. The intent within this is of course for the Soul to expand upon it's own understanding of life, or to eliminate it completely and begin the process of searching for that philosophical meaning of life all over again.

*********************************************************************

Perhaps in prior lives his position was such (royalty?) that he didn't need to be concerned with whether or not others understood him.  But in this life that is not the case.  Even his siblings will require that he explain his understanding in a way that they can understand.

**********************************************************************

There is nothing in this paradigm to suggest royalty. It is possible however that in previous lives the Soul has been in positions within it's culture, tribe, or society of origin in which the very nature of the position correlated to authority in some way so that whatever was emanating from the Soul by way of 'teachings' was not challenged.

*********************************************************************

NN in the 1st House

With the NN in the 1st house, this Soul will be driven in this lifetime to find answers to the question: Who am I?  Because so much of the Soul's identity in the past has been defined in relation to the other, there is a need in this lifetime to come to an understanding of who he is separate from the other.  It is possible, with the Aries archetype, that there will be angry confrontations with others that will force this Soul to begin to actualize the 3rd house PPP - the need to learn how to articulate what it intuitively knows so that others can understand.  Thus in this way the NN would act as a facilitator to the PPP.  There would also be in this lifetime an intrinsic evolutionary need for freedom.  Thus, with the Libran opposition signifying the past, it seems like the need would be to break free from relationship patterns that were no longer growth-promoting.  These relationship patterns would be those based on inequality.

************************************************************

And dependency for those relationships, equal or not.................

*************************************************************

The confrontations that the Soul experiences in this lifetime would awaken the Soul to this inequality and thus awaken the Soul's desire for equal relationships.  The struggle (because it is the NN and thus not familiar) would be to learn to define himself independently from the other and to learn to stand on his own.  With the PPP in the 3rd, his way of doing this will be to pursue the knowledge systems that help him to more clearly define and articulate his intuitive sense of things.  By doing this, he will gradually relate to others as equals, recognizing that his way/understanding is only one of many and that relationship is about 2 equals sharing with others what they know and 2 equals respecting each others differences.

One final thought
One thing I didn't address in this archetype is the possibility that this Soul will have the tendency of feeling/believing that it can't do it on its own.  I think this feeling would contribute to the sense of inner isolation the Soul feels because he would not be claiming his full power.  The Aries NN will force this Soul in this lifetime to begin to define himself as an independent being - and this according to the requirements of the PPP (ie, by pursuing more left-brained ways of understanding and communicating).  This process will have the effect of alleviating that inner sense of isolation/loneliness.

Very good effort Ellen.

God Bless, Rad

[Elen]

Hi Ellen,

Rad's Quote:There is nothing in this paradigm that correlates to loosing their own sense of individuality.

Hi Rad,
Is there a paradigm/archetype that would/could indicate this?

*****************************************************

There are a variety of possible paradigms that could correlate with this if we understand 'loosing their own sense of individuality' as a total loss of individual/ egocentric identity. Understood in exactly that way would then mean that the Soul has become something like an automaton that manifests as the Soul simply being as extension of others expectations. More darkly, this automaton like condition for the Soul could also occur as a function of being brainwashed by another or others. And the very worse cases would involve being 'possessed' by evil entities.

So this to me seems to signify the water trine.  Cancer=ego.  Scorpio=possible possession.  Pisces=losing oneself. Is this correct?


******************************************************************


The Soul's sense of individuality is a function of the relationships that it forms with others in general, and an intimate other specifically, in which the asking and answering of the 9th House type of questions occurs.. The underlying issue, again, is the co-dependency upon others in general, and intimate others specifically, in terms of the asking and answering the 9th House questions.

I wanted to throw this out there so that I could get your response because I'm confused about the term co-dependency.  I had always understood co-dependency to involve "losing oneself" or "giving oneself away".  But you are saying this is not true.  I guess I am confused about terms - from co-dependency to dependency to "losing oneself".........

************************************************************************

Seems it depends on how is going to understand the word co-dependency. To me this does not correlate to 'loosing oneself' at all. To me it means that one's sense of reality and identity is dependent on others to sustain one's sense of individual reality and identity. The core dynamics of course being dependency, dependent upon. That would be very different than literally 'loosing oneself. Loosing oneself, to me, means that one's entire sense of individual identity has been lost: no sense of individual identity at all.

Thank you, Rad.  I believe I understand what you are saying and understand the difference now between co-dependence and losing oneself.  In co-dependence, the main issue is believing that you can't stand on your own two feet or do it alone, thus you rely heavily on another.  When you lose yourself, you literally have lost your connection to yourself - to who you are, and may even have allowed yourself to be taken over/possessed by another.

God bless,
Ellen




**********************************************************************

God Bless, Rad

[Elen]

Rad's quote: "Expand on the issue of honesty here if you can .........what challenges and why ?"

Hi Rad,

Thank you so much for your feedback.  I will take time to reread and absorb your comments so that I can fully understand.  With regard to the above quote, my thinking was that, because the Soul's desire and need has been to expand, and that this occurs through encountering other people and other cultures with different ideas and beliefs systems, etc., the Soul, as s/he evolves, will encounter places of untruth within him/herself.  But also, I am thinking, that, in cases where the Soul resists this desire/need, s/he will hang onto old ideas and views that are not true for her/himself anymore.  Thus there would be a dishonesty with oneself and this dishonesty would be thus present in relationships.  This in turn would contribute to feelings of alienation.  But then these feelings would be the driving force that eventually forced the Soul to look more deeply at its beliefs and to search for new answers.  The more tenaciously the Soul hung onto its old beliefs and truths, the greater the confrontation that the Soul will encounter with the other in her/his life.

Is this correct?  Is there more to it?

In kindness,
Ellen

[Rad]

Hi Ellen,

Rad's quote: "Expand on the issue of honesty here if you can .........what challenges and why ?"

Hi Rad,

Thank you so much for your feedback.  I will take time to reread and absorb your comments so that I can fully understand.  With regard to the above quote, my thinking was that, because the Soul's desire and need has been to expand, and that this occurs through encountering other people and other cultures with different ideas and beliefs systems, etc., the Soul, as s/he evolves, will encounter places of untruth within him/herself.  But also, I am thinking, that, in cases where the Soul resists this desire/need, s/he will hang onto old ideas and views that are not true for her/himself anymore.  Thus there would be a dishonesty with oneself and this dishonesty would be thus present in relationships.  This in turn would contribute to feelings of alienation.  But then these feelings would be the driving force that eventually forced the Soul to look more deeply at its beliefs and to search for new answers.  The more tenaciously the Soul hung onto its old beliefs and truths, the greater the confrontation that the Soul will encounter with the other in her/his life.

Is this correct?  Is there more to it?

******************************************************************

Excellent, and very correct Ellen.

********************************************************************

"So this to me seems to signify the water trine.  Cancer=ego.  Scorpio=possible possession.  Pisces=losing oneself. Is this correct?"

**********************************************************************

Those archetypes would certainly be involved in such cases, but, of course, there is much more to it.

God Bless, Rad

[Elen]

Hi Rad,

Thank you so much for your feedback.  I'm hoping to be able to look more closely at your responses tonight or tomorrow.  I had to take a break to study for an exam I had today...

Peace and well wishes,

Ellen