NEW PRACTICE CHART THREAD FOR BEGINNERS

[Rad]

Hi Ellen,

Hi Rad,

I was wondering if the sexual distortion seen in something like NAMBLA (National Association for Man-Boy Love) could be a manifestation of this chart...?

5th house - children
1st house - sexual instinct (distorted!)
11th house - groups
7th house - equality and one-on-one relationship (distorted!)

Ellen

The archetypes here support that but there would have to be other symbols within the whole chart to make it as specific as that.

God Bless,  Rad

[mirta]

Hi Rad,
Thanks so much for your feedback.
I have read the other practices after posting. I didn't it before to avoid conditioning and self critic comparations.
God Bless
Mirta

[Elen]

Hi Ellen,

Very, very good effort at trying to demonstrate the differences in the different EA conditions, and the interrelationship between Pluto, the Nodes, and the polarity point for Pluto.

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"For this Soul, "the other" would be the initiator into this realm of special purpose.  Initially there would be resistance to receiving the attention of the other as the Soul would still be oriented towards the culture of one that has allowed her/him to answer the question: Who am I?  But as the Soul progressed, s/he would experience an increasing need for the validation from this other, eventually depending on it."

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The actual role of 'the other' is to teach the Soul to be an equal within society at large, and in it's personal interactions with others in general. It is to teach the Soul of what others actually need according to themselves, not what this Soul thinks that others need. This then requires the Soul to learn how to 'listen' to others in such a way as then to be able to 'objectify' the realities of others, versus a subjective projection upon others of who the Soul thinks that they are, and what they need. There is a core narcissism within the Pluto in the 11th, S.Node in the 1st that needs to be eliminated or purged from within this Soul.

Hi Rad,

Is the core narcissism of the 11th house Pluto BECAUSE of the 1st house SN?  Or is it intrinsically narcissistic in and of itself?  I would have thought that 11th house Pluto, by itself, would NOT be narcissistic because of the group orientation of the sign.  Can you explain this to me?  Thanks.
Thus, the polarity point of Pluto, and the N.Node in the 7th in order to learn that this Soul is an equal to others that is learning to give, not take. In learning to give to others what they actually need then enforces this lesson in learning to listen to others as they actually are, and that, in turn, progressively evolves the Soul from the existing inner orientation to itself from the self centered narcissist to an equal among everyone else. One of the roles of the 'other' then is to help keep this Soul aligned with that core evolutionary intention by way of the feedback that the other provides.

Good job !

God Bless, Rad

Rad,

Thank you so much for your feedback.  I truly appreciate it and am thrilled to have this opportunity.  I'm hopeful I will be able to keep participating, though there's a little over a month left of my school program so that may still have to take precedence....  

I understand what you are saying with regard to the 7th house archetype.  The evolutionary intent is to learn to see the other for who the other actually is, not according to one's projections, and from there to be able to give according to that other's needs, not according to one's projected ideas of her/his needs.  Yes?  One question I have is, would what I wrote be a possibility if the dynamic were playing out in a dysfunctional way?  I think I was thinking in terms of what would happen if the 11th House Pluto/1st House SN person failed to move beyond the essential narcissism, ie, if this person were resisting the evolutionary intent.  So there would be SOME movement towards it (entering into partnerships) but a failure or refusal to actually do the work of learning to see the other for who s/he really is.  Any validity to this scenario?

Peace and gratitude,

Ellen
 

[Rad]

Hi Ellen,

"Is the core narcissism of the 11th house Pluto BECAUSE of the 1st house SN?  Or is it intrinsically narcissistic in and of itself?  I would have thought that 11th house Pluto, by itself, would NOT be narcissistic because of the group orientation of the sign.  Can you explain this to me? "

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It is because of the S.Node in the 1st House, an Aries House, that this narcissism exists.

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"I understand what you are saying with regard to the 7th house archetype.  The evolutionary intent is to learn to see the other for who the other actually is, not according to one's projections, and from there to be able to give according to that other's needs, not according to one's projected ideas of her/his needs.  Yes?  One question I have is, would what I wrote be a possibility if the dynamic were playing out in a dysfunctional way?  I think I was thinking in terms of what would happen if the 11th House Pluto/1st House SN person failed to move beyond the essential narcissism, ie, if this person were resisting the evolutionary intent.  So there would be SOME movement towards it (entering into partnerships) but a failure or refusal to actually do the work of learning to see the other for who s/he really is.  Any validity to this scenario?"

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Yes there is, and the resistance would be based on the self importance of it's own ego balloon.

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God Bless, Rad



>

[Elen]

Hi Rad,

Thanks again for your answers/clarifications/confirmations.  Are there other directions to take these archetypes beyond what we have gotten to so far?  More about trauma?  More about sexuality?  More about relationship?  Anything else you could recommend looking at?  Perhaps more about how the archetypes would manifest differently in the different signs?  I will be thinking about all of this, though won't be able to look at it in depth til the weekend.  I thought some direction from you might be helpful..

Peace and gratitude,
Ellen

[Rad]

Hi Ellen,

Well they are a variety of different dynamics that have yet to be mentioned or discussed in the paradigm that we are working with. That's why I mentioned that it would be useful for some to read JWG's Pluto through the houses and signs: in this case the 11th House, 1st House, etc. I have a feeling that those who have posted what they have on the paradigm that we are currently working with, some of them, or not yet done with this paradigm. So have been waiting to see if any more responses come in about it. If not, then we will begin another one. At this point I do want to keep it as simple as possible instead of taking, for example, the current paradigm and then linking it to specific signs and/or putting in the planetary rulers of the Nodes.

For those who are participating in this thread let me know if you want to still keep working on this paradigm, or to begin a new one.

God Bless, Rad

[Linda]

Rad,

I am presently still working on the current paradigm.  I am putting it into the context of the CONSENSUS evolutionary condition, as you suggested.

Thanks.

[Elen]

Hi Rad,

Thanks so much for your response.  I'd like to take another look at it this week.  I'd like to read through JWG again, as you suggest, and also incorporate a little of what Deva and Kristin talked about on Kristin's show (the one where they talked about the nodes in Aries/Libra).  It was a very insightful conversation.

Ellen

[Sunyata]

I have a question or maybe just thoughts about the first house. What would lead a soul to feel that they had a special destiny or overly identify with themselves as special? Could it be that they are working out karma with some people that they don't necessarily like? i.e. they were born into a family that is on a different evolutionary level than them and that makes them feel inherently different and 'special' because they 'see' things differently than these people with whom they interact on a daily basis? Maybe they suddenly had to finish off some 2000 year old karma with these people so that they could move to the next level and they are 'angry' about it. They are 'narcissistic' because they feel they don't belong with these people and therefor withdraw into themselves, thinking about their special destiny as it relates to being different from everyone around them.
If you are a third stage individuated soul born into a 2nd stage consensus family or somewhere abouts there, it seems that would create a natural withdrawl into oneself, anger, narcissism, etc. and other 'negative' attributes that we may think of when we think of first house archetype.
The reason I am saying this is because sometimes I feel like I am hearing people throw out some words about 1st house people without thinking of the possible causes of the tendencies that they might have.
They are not inherent egomaniacs necessarily, there is a cause for that behavior that needs to be considered.

[Linda]

Pluto 11th - SN 1st - PPP 5th - NN 7th

Re-do for CONSENSUS state


Rad's quote:    If you feel like it see if you can come up with an EA analysis that would apply to the Consensus State.


The Soul in the Consensus evolutionary condition identifies with the mainstream of her society, culture and country.  Her orientation to reality is an extension of the conditioning patterns of the consensus, and she cannot go outside of the box until she exhausts all desires in this evolutionary state.  The root desire that propels her Soul forward in the Consensus is the desire to "˜get ahead' of the system.  Her reaction in this condition will be oriented to the past, or showing some ambivalence to social change.

In the Consensus state, the archetype of deconditioning and liberation still operates.  However the 11th house archetype can be quite antithetical to the Saturnian Consensus evolutionary condition.  Her 11th house Pluto has been liberating and breaking her free from conditioning patterns by cyclically shattering her conditioned sense of identity thus allowing her to get just that little bit closer to her essential nature, or authentic unconditioned self....but this is a very long and slow process, filled with resistance, fear, trauma, the unwillingness to change, or to embrace progressive growth.

Being in the Consensus evolutionary condition means general resistance to the 11th house deconditioning impulse because it creates social insecurity within her.  She does not readily experience the joy of just being "free" but is bound by cultural and societal conditionings.  All her life her subconscious or higher mind had been suppressed.  Since the 11th house Pluto archetypal impulse is to become aware of the "unknown," then her safe and secure definitions of reality could become shattered by traumatic events. The degree of resistance equals the degree of trauma necessary to free up the suppressive tendency.

This deconditioning process works throughout her life in a unique way via the South Node in the 1st house where she experiences the urge to take new directions in an instinctive and spontaneous way.  These impulses are usually suppressed as they threaten her security patterns.  Therefore she experiences periods of deep depression due to squashing the 1st house impulses.  The impulse for freedom appears to be quite "irrational" and causes insecurity because of her cautious Consensus view of reality - so moving forward is not an easy process. 

Her 11th house Pluto subconscious contains that which she is suppressing (due to the Consensus conditionings);  suppression of her instinctual feelings and desires (1st);  suppression of sexuality in general (1st);  and, suppression of a homosexual tendency (11th).  Not acting on these natural urges or impulses would lead to depression, futility and withdrawal"¦and to deep anger (1st house).  She has the choice to either "suppress" or "to act." 

She would cyclically experience immense "release" of what has been suppressed, due to the archetype of liberation.  Through objective observation and awareness, she learns that whenever she has the "courage" (1st) to decondition herself in any way, that this allows her to get in touch with her innate qualities of intelligence, brilliance, innovation, ingeniousness, and outstanding abilities - and thus to experiment and transform her identity (1st).  But due to these abilities she is usually judged harshly by her society.  When tradition is threatened, the sense of security is also threatened.  Therefore, she has learned that it takes acts of courage to be different, and these can result in periods of "aloneness" (1st). 

An example of how the 5th house Pluto polarity point can manifest via the 7th house NN is through working with children:  by implementing new types of programs on how to work with or raise children, and acting in a leadership (1st) or counseling role (7th) to "pioneer" these programs (1st) in the community.  Through her natal 11th house Pluto she would encourage the expression of uniqueness and creativity within individual children (5th).  In a role such as this she would feel she had something special or unique to contribute to society. 
   
Her desire nature (1st) would lead to the forming of relationships (7th) in which she would learn new ways of relating to others, by learning to "listen" to the other so as to identify their reality, so as to be able to give them what they truly need, and not what she thinks they need from within her own self-reference (5th).  The core narcissism of the 1st house SN needs to be purged by learning that she is an equal among others (7th), and that by learning to give, and not just take, she will learn the fundamental lesson of equality in relationships. 

[mountainheather]

Hi Rad and all,
I am ready for the next paradigm whenever it is posted. I haven't gone to the extent of analysis of each evolutionary stage, and would rather not now since I am at maximum capacity with one thing at a time.
Of course, will gladly wait and learn if others are going to be looking at the other evo stages.

Heather

[bluesky]

Echoing Sunyata's comments, I have also been wondering if there isn't also sometimes a positive interpretation of that south node.

I have also been thinking about other possible scenarios for the 1st house/11th house interpretation:  that the 1st house south node person withdrew into themselves because of 11th house events/traumas, or a desire to separate from the pack, etc. because it was squelching the person's individuality or "progress".

[Rad]

Hi bluesky and sunyata,

It is simply necessary to understand the nature of the archetypes in order to understand how and why they manifest the way that they do. In the first house or Aries there is a NECESSARY NARCISSISM. So, why is that ? It is because Aries, and the first house, correlate with a new evolutionary cycle of becoming: that which has not occurred before. Because of this evolutionary development the Soul necessarily requires independence and freedom in order to act upon the impulses and desires within it so as to discover what this new evolutionary cycle is about. As a result of this necessary freedom and independence that equal the discovery of what this new evolutionary cycle is about requires a core self focus: narcissism. This is necessary within this archetype. It simply is what is for what it is. The 'judgments' of negative or positive are not necessary by anyone. It simply is what is.

In the paradigm that we are working with the 11th House Pluto will feel different no matter what it's evolutionary condition is. Different from the entire group of people, it's peers, and the society of birth. When this is then combined with the S.Node in the 1st House this feeling of being different then ignites the the core narcissism that is required in order to step back from that peer group, society, in order to initiate whatever experiences the Soul feels instinctively drawn to initiate in order to discover what that feeling of being different is about. 

One of the beauties of EA, to me, is to be able to see things just as they are, and for the reasons that they are without projecting judgments of negative or positive. In this way we can then truly help those that come to us for counseling and understanding. So in the paradigm that we are working with the Pluto in the 11th and the S.Node in the 1st simply correlates to where the Soul has been, and why. It correlates to their own unique evolutionary process, and the reasons for that process.

God Bless, Rad

[Rad]

Hi Linda,

I will get to your updated analysis tomorrow. Am very busy and running a bit behind at the moment.

God Bless, Rad

[Dhyana]

One of the beauties of EA, to me, is to be able to see things just as they are, and for the reasons that they are without projecting judgments of negative or positive. In this way we can then truly help those that come to us for counseling and understanding. So in the paradigm that we are working with the Pluto in the 11th and the S.Node in the 1st simply correlates to where the Soul has been, and why. It correlates to their own unique evolutionary process, and the reasons for that process.

God Bless, Rad

Simply beautiful....

Thank You.