Scorpio archetype

[Wendy]

This teaches me, again, that it takes immense desire and determination surrender to the evolutionary process. Resistance to change (Scorpio) intensifies the darkness, until a soul finally accepts that there's no way out but through.
With Love,
Ari Moshe

Thank you Ari~

When I spoke with Gu's mother I mentioned that when I work with animals who have passed and have had difficulty or major health issues, I encourage them to set up an alter and to add a bowl of spring water and specific flower or vibrational essences to help clear whatever they were carrying when they transitioned, so the next time around may be lighter. 

I felt/thought getting clear on Gu's chart with the help of all of you may too help his soul to have less resistance, or fear and shed light into the darkness that had power over him.  Thank you all.

With love,
Wendy

[Wendy]

Hi All,

I've been thinking about this all day, after reading in Deva's book today.  

From Deva's book, Pluto and Your Karmic Mission, I wrote down these key notes from page 259-260, and have a few questions:

Scorpio (Pluto) + choice making = karma

Our choices bring us face to face with limitations, our points of weakness, and they show us where we must overcome them to evolve.  We experience power and powerlessness as a result.

The archetype of Scorpio brings awareness of universal forces and the desire to merge with universal forces.  Merging allows evolution.

Confrontation of ego and soul, reflected in the archetype and relate to the two existing desires within the soul.  To grow, yet fear of pre-existing patterns of emotional security creates need to sustain separating desires and old orientation to life.

Symbolizes desire to penetrate to the core (bottom line) of any dynamic preventing further growth, thus the need for psychological understanding of motivations, intentions, desires.

Also symbolizes the question, "why".

Archetype has need to experience, push limitations, taboos of society to evolve.

Vehicle of sacred sexuality to merge with source, meant to re-empower us, transform from profane-procreation to sacred, to merge with source and divinity of another...makes me think of artist Alex Grey.

Manipulation, loss, use, betrayal manifest because of unconscious emotional security factors and resistance to change.

This leads to suspicion...

Deva my questions center around the references to emotional security in relation to the Scorpio archetype.  My understanding is emotional security issues are linked specifically to Cancer and the Moon which represent Ego in EA.  Is that right?  If so, do the references to emotional security relate to Ego and its impact on the Scorpio archetype and Pluto and Scorpio specifically? and/or all Pluto archetypes in relation to the unconscious emotional (moon) functions within all charts?

I also realize now the North and South nodes of part of the emotional security patterns from pre-existing states and from the Moon.

Thanks for helping me further understand.

Wendy

[Wendy]

I spoke with Gu's mother today and have more insight into Gu.  

It's really so sad, because his heart chakra had opened this summer in a way she had never seen before and then after visiting with his father's family, he added to alcohol and drugs back into his life.

Rose said Gu's father used to bring "Near Beer" into the house when Gu was young and let Gu drink it.  While he was in the Waldorf school he would go to his friends house and steal liquor and get drunk.  By the time Gu was eleven he was drinking with is father and getting high.  They were definitely Seeks and Gu continued to follow a Seek path, except when he was doing drugs.  

Looking at the chart Sun square Chiron, wounding with the father, Chiron opposite Saturn in Capricorn, Gu felt like the father, and probably was the father in the relationship.  Gu killed himself with his father's gun in his father's house and his father is really suffering now.  An already fragmented soul, according to Gu's mother, he is more so now.

More thoughts on all of this would be great.

Thanks and much love,
Wendy

[Deva]

Hi Wendy, thanks for posting the chart, and your insights/questions about the Scorpio archetype. Scorpio correlates to the Soul (Pluto). Pluto in the natal chart reflects the deepest unconscious emotional security patterns any of us can have. Thus, the Scorpio, 8th house/Pluto archetype reflects unconscious emotional security patterns. The Moon/4th house/cancer archetype reflects the egocentric structure within the individual, and reflect conscious emotional security patterns (what we consciously identify that creates emotional security for us. The point within this is that emotional security is linked with the known and familiar (or past) ways of being, and the need to be self-consistant. This is why Pluto, the SN, and it's planetary ruler will reflect the specific dynamics within the Soul that constitue emotional security, and the specific dynamics that are typically gravitated to in a habitual manner. (We must always use Pluto in the birth chart as the starting point to understand/answer any question from an evolutionary point of view).
Also, as I was reading your notes, are you referencing the section that decribes the inconjunct from Aries to Scorpio when writing about the fear of breaking pre-existing patterns because of the security they bring? Scorpio does reflect the need the  evolve beyond preexisting limitations, and the inconjunct to Aries correlates with a brand new evolutionary cycle, andthe desire to initiate actions in order for self-discovery and growth to occur. Yet, Scorpio by it's nature, wants to secure and maintain what it already known and familiar. This creates the crisis reflected in the inconjunt in these two archetypes.   
Let me know if this answers your questions!
Thanks
Deva

[Wendy]

Yes it does, thank you.  Any thoughts about Gu's chart and what I wrote?

[Deva]

Hi, my initial thoughts about the chart you posted are a deep internal struggle/deep inner conflict this Soul has about his own self-worth, and intense feelings of inner lack/imperfection (Pluto RX in Scorpio/6th house opposing Venus in Taurus in the 12th house, SN in Virgo/4th house) and the need for crisis to bring this dynamics to closure (Pluto in the 6th house/Sn in Virgo relative to North Node in Pisces). The family dynamic is extremely critical which is symbolized by by the South node in the 4th house, Mercury in Pisces in the 10th house conjunct the Moon, and Pluto trining Mercury/Moon conjunction. It is in Pisces/10th house which symbolizes disillusionment has been experienced  in the context of society (perhaps this person has perpetually been trying the be "normal"/externally conforming to the mainstream society. This is reflected in the  natal planets in Cap/8th house).  However, if this occurred, at some point this would lead to a heavy duty depression, sense of meaningless and emptiness. Pisces/12th house energy reflects the need to embrace a transcendant reality. The escape mode would be the drugs/substance abuse (shadow of Pisces archtype). Maybe on an inner level he realized he could not live this lie of conformity, but did not see how he could express his sensitivity or bring out his gifts relative the the nature of the society we are living in (whats the point-I am just going to be rejected again-nobody will listen or take me seriously).  This is reflected in natal Pluto in Scorpio/6th house/SN in Virgo/4th house ruled by Mercury in Pisces/10th house conjunct the Moon). Again, the family dynamic is extremely important in this case, and the messages he received as a young child from his parents (where they affirming and loving/validating his true nature and sensitivity, or did he receive rejection/judgment and lack of emotional support from one or both parents)? The point is that the underlying dynamic of self-defeat and futility (whats the point) should strongly be neutralized with the thoughts that the value is in the effort, and that being the sensitive person he is naturally is perfectly OK.  The socital judgement he received may have been very intense with the natal cap/8th house planets (also this would indicate the fathers impact on him), and the 6th house Pluto and SN in Virgo/6th house reflect damage to his self-image that occurred relative to such judgements. The natal cap/8th house planets symbolize an inner judgement he is making about himself relative to the norms of society (what he should be or is suppose to be), and knowing he cannot confrom to that norm (feeling guilt because of it). Just my initial thoughts about his chart, will be happy to post more or answer other questions you have about it.
God Bless
Deva

[Linda]

Deva and Wendy,

Over the past couple of years I've seen several charts of young people with a similar conglomeration of Capricorn planets being impacted upon by transiting Pluto.  In the case of one young man in particular, who had a Capricorn extended-stellium plus Moon in Capricorn at early degrees as well, he had gone through many relatives in his family dying. 

In Gu's case, he took his own life.  The ruler of Gu's 8th house is Saturn, found within the 8th - and since Uranus is conjunct Saturn, the ruler of his 11th house is Neptune, also found in the 8th. 

I will go through both of your interpretations of his chart, to learn more.  Thank you.

[Steve]

Hi all

Deva's analysis, as a generic one that discusses the range of possible ways this chart could be actualized, is excellent.  

But Wendy has supplied some background information that I think Deva may not be familiar with.  Wendy refers to the family being "Seeks".  What she is trying to say is they are "Sikhs", the people who wear white turbans who are part of Yogi Bhajan's 3HO spiritual organization.   Sikh is a small religion in India, similar to but distinct from Hinduism.  The name "Guru" is a common Sikh name.  It does not mean they think the person is a Guru, it's just a Sikh name.  Many of them have adopted the common last name of Singh, which (if I remember correctly) is associated with the founder of the Sikh religion.  It's important to keep in mind we are talking about (in most cases) white-skinned Americans who have adopted this religion/way of life while still living in the USA. (Yogi Bhajan was a teacher from India who came to the US in the 60's or 70's).

Any family associated with this group is unlikely to have given their children messages that they are supposed to be "normal/externally conforming to the mainstream society".  It is more likely they were given messages that their sub-group of Sikh's IS normal, and the rest of it is materialistic stuff the parents don't believe in.   It is possible the boy saw this in the way someone raised in a family heavy in Catholicism would see the Catholic religion - he was expected to accept these beliefs of his parents.  Perhaps he didn't.  If he loved the parents he might try to conform to their beliefs, out of love and respect.  But perhaps it wasn't working for him.  He would be torn inside, between his love and dedication to parents and thus wanting to fit into the sub-culture they were part of, and the fact that it just did not fit him or express who he was.  His very name is part of that sub-culture.  If I am correct in my analysis, to be true to himself he would have to change his name, which no doubt would have caused pain to his parent(s).  Perhaps within himself he felt caught between a rock and a hard place.

Also Wendy said Gu attended a Waldorf school, another sign the parents were not giving him messages about the need to conform to consensus values.

An issue that Wendy did not thoroughly explain is, why was a Sikh parent giving his son Near-Beer, and why did he keep guns?  This indicates there was a lot of confusion and mixed messages/desires within the father.  These things do not go with being a Sikh, or sending your child to a Waldorf School.  

This makes me question whether it was the mother who had the strong spiritual beliefs, and who talked a possibly weaker father into going along with them.  The father then would have his own doubts and misgivings about the path.  The child would have found some solace with the father, where he could be accepted with his own doubts and questionings.  If I am correct in this, the mother's beliefs would have been so strong there would not be much room for Gu to bring his doubt issues up with her.  She would likely not be able to hear them.  Plus he might think his doubts would cause her pain, which he wouldn't want to inflict on her.  So he'd tend to stuff his ideas (10th house) (Mercury in Pisces in 10th, conjunct Moon).  He would sense the father shared some similar feelings, even if they never discussed them out loud.  Thus he would find an affinity with his father where darker parts of his own nature, that might not have been acceptable to the mother, were validated, even if indirectly.

Wendy can perhaps fill in more details, which would make more specific chart interp possible.
Steve

[Deva]

Thanks for clarifying, Steve. You are correct,  I am not familiar with the background info Wendy provided, and in order to provide specific chart interpretation we do need to have more information about this boy to put in the proper context. 
Thanks
Deva

[Wendy]

Thanks so much for clarifying what I wrote Steve.  I really appreciate it.  

The mother and father met in the Sikh community, and just as in most communities, individuals have different levels of awareness, etc.  The mother most certainly has stronger dedication to spiritual soul life and the father had more interest in community and family, with lots of boundary issues and many untreated addictive issues.  She told me, they argued about the near beer many times, and ultimately got divorced eleven years ago.  The mother then changed her name, and redirected her spiritual life to shamanism, so I don't believe she would have minded if her son wanted to change his name.  Though I can imagine, Gu, felt an unconscious pressure to live a spiritually focused life given the conscious and perhaps unconscious messages he learned in the community and his family history.

The messages would most definitely suggest their way of life was normal and conventional society not the norm.  I feel Gu felt safer with his mother than his father, in terms of expressing himself, though the addictive patterns and shadow behavior would have been acted out around his father.  The Mother's direction towards healing and Shamanism don't necessarily deny the shadow, if anything they deal with it directly.  When addiction patterns are present there is an element of lying to the self and others, so he would have been walking in both worlds in terms of relating to his two differing parents.

I feel the T-square with Sun, Saturn and Chiron played a major part in Gu's suicide and general difficulties, as well as Pluto in Scorpio 6th house, 4th house Virgo SN, Moon-Mercury 10th house.  The transiting nodes were right on his natal Neptune approaching this T-square, activating his rage and anger at his father (or maybe the whole family with Moons in Capricorn), and the unconscious aspects of his Saturn Uranus in Capricorn in the 8th house.  

Does this information help clarify?

Thank you all again so much,

Wendy






 

[Deva]

Hi Wendy, thanks for posting this information. It seems he did get more emotional support from his mother than this father from what you are stating about his parents (South node in the 4th house trining Moon/Mercury conjunction). With all of his natal planets in cap/8th house there is going to be an emphasized issue with authority and authority figures in general. In terms of his relationship with his father, I am wondering if he felt he needed to suppress/repress a part of himself to "fit" or conform to this expectations of his father (Uranus in cap/7th house conjunct Saturn and Neptune), yet desired to be accepted/loved for who he is naturally (as all children do). Pluto was transiting his natal Saturn/Uranus conjunction as well as the other transits you were discussing. This indicates the need for him to find his own voice of authority within himself, and to liberate from any need he had to conform to external standards of conduct/behavior in order to receive acceptance and love. The father figure is certainly going to have a deep impact relative to the natal cap/8th planets in the context of the type of behavior he was role modeling to the sun. The point I am making is that it may be possible that he could not truly relate to the lifestyle or "norms" of his family life, yet was unable to express this because of fears of rejection and abandonment (Pluto in Scorpio/6th house RX), and conformed to this norms due to the fears previously described. Again, just my thoughts based on what you have shared.
God Bless
Deva 

[Linda]

Deva,

The psyche keeps pulling back to repetitive patterns described by the karmic signature of Pluto and the Nodes.

Since Pluto represents the Soul, that frozen part of the psyche in need of healing and metamorphosis could manifest very intensely, persistently or offer resistance.  

Would you or anyone be interested in discussing how the most marked of these karmic imprints or core complexes could manifest with Scorpio in each of the 12 houses?  And, also, any techniques on how to purge or work on those frozen energies?

[Linda]

I'm aiming at looking at the worst possible Scorpionic wounds in the psyche through the houses:


Scorpio in the 1st house:   Urge to dominate and control, aggression, anger, rape, competition, self-centredness.  Transforms into balancing their needs with others and courage to take new directions.

2nd house:  Frozen in the well, lack, insecurity, dishonest ways of making money, over-accumulation.  Problems associated with material needs changes into understanding their limits, learning how to merge themselves and their resources with others.

3rd house:  Power struggles with people in immediate environment such as siblings, silver tongue, two-faced, scandal, gossip.  Perpetual restlessness, collapse of logical structures - changes to inspirational communication skills, and penetrating intellect.

4th house:  Struggles with parents, making others dependent on them or being too dependent on others, emotional manipulation.  Healing comes from developing inner security and supplying their own emotional needs.

5th house:  Power struggles with children and lovers, having everything revolve around them, compulsive need for attention and control.  To learn that they are channels of the creative force in the universe.

6th house:  Compulsive criticism, sadomasochism, problems in the workplace.  Transforms into forgiveness, humility and respect for the imperfections of others (and themselves).

7th house:  Power struggles in relationships and partnerships, bad marriages, lawsuits, domineering/submissive behaviour  in relationships.  Transforms into learning how to function equally in relationships.

8th house:  Power struggles with partners, vindictiveness, vengefulness, misuse of sexual energy.  The threat to their personal power transforms into the elimination of the misuse of power.

9th house:  Fanaticism and obsession in ideology, my truth is the only way.  The desire to understand fundamental truths leads to understanding Natural Laws.

10th house:  Authoritarianism, ruthless displays of power, fall from grace, control freak, repression and distortion of Natural Law.  To realize their ambitions through non-manipulative ways.

11th house: Trauma, shock, social dinosaur, lawlessness, unpredictability, inflexibility.  Learning to play a socially meaningful and unique role.

12th house:  Power struggles in secret, drug abuse, cycles of losing control, chasing dreams, meaninglessness.  Transforms into divine inspiration, self-sacrifice and humility. 


Would anyone like to share specific techniques for purging karmic imprints?

[Steve]

Linda

I think its important to state that the transformations you described for each of the 12 houses are reached through learning to activate the polarity point (the opposite house).  That is the core principle.  As the polarity point is progressively activated, one learns to do the natal Pluto house IN NEW WAYS, from insights that come through activating the polarity house.

For 6th house, you have "Compulsive criticism, sadomasochism, problems in the workplace."   I would add SELF-criticism, deep sense of inadequacy, overpowering guilt, hyper-awareness of every fault and blemish in self.  The other behaviors stem from the person's self-orientation.

7th house, Co-dependence/enmeshment to the point of losing a sense of self altogether.

Steve

[Linda]

I think its important to state that the transformations you described for each of the 12 houses are reached through learning to activate the polarity point (the opposite house).  That is the core principle.  As the polarity point is progressively activated, one learns to do the natal Pluto house IN NEW WAYS, from insights that come through activating the polarity house.

Steve,

You say the polarity point (or house) needs "activation."  Does this mean that this polarity point actually lies DORMANT in the psyche, that the Soul is already aware of it, hence the Soul (Pluto) forces one to activate the polarity point in order to expand, to transmute the existing limitation, to learn new lessons and new ways?

Are there examples where the polarity point has already been activated in the past, eg a planet conjunct the polarity point?

When the North Node conjuncts natal Pluto, this means that evolution will continue in that same house - and not via the polarity point.

I thought that the "old stagnant behaviours" needed healing or purging, but you are saying that the healing process comes about through the opposite house through interaction with actual events, occurrences and other persons that force one to become aware of the "newness" of the opposite house and its issues, which then lead to expressing this opposite house or polarity in a completely new way.  And this process then brings about evolution? 

The whole issue of POLARITY is interesting, because that naturally correlates to the Libran archetype.  So, no matter what house Pluto or Scorpio are in, there is a requirement to "embrace" the polarity, in other words, to create a relationship to that which is opposite, the "other," other people, other aspects of oneself that seem to be hidden, but that need development.

How can one co-operate with Pluto?  What does it mean?  Could you please clarify or confirm the different responses to evolution, such as: 

-- embracing the polarity point
-- working through the karma
-- responding more readily to the prompts (higher evo. states)
-- cataclysmic events that speed the process

So, working on the polarity point "in our heads" could reflect patriarchal bias or rationalizations that cause avoidance by not "feeling" what is happening.  It has been said that the Scorpio archetype is able to "feel" intensely, and that we need the water element (Cancer-Scorpio-Pisces) for evolution to take place. 

Would you or anyone care to comment on the need for the "water" element for evolution to take place?