Indicators of Emotional Sensitivity in a Chart and Evolutionary State

[Elen]

Hi Bluesky,

It may help you to read through these 2 posts by Dhyana & Ari from the Ashley thread.  My statement derived from this exchange.  I'll go back and post my & your posts below and "answer" (I don't have much of one) from there.

Ellen


Hi Ari,


I cannot thank you enough for all the resources your participation in this thread wiill give me to support Ashley. As you must know, my EA understanding thus far, couldn't come even close to what you have presented here!    ---I just don't even know what to say...

...Well, I will put it to good use.
---------------------

So below is the post I was asking for you to comment on for me. I was trying to emphasize that consensus are able to avoid "feeling too much" or they just can "go numb" so that they can function in the world, you know? (and as an aside, I remember someone writing in reference to Ashley the word "numb" , and that is was not the context or the reference person I was talking about with that word, I was talking about consensus going "numb", NOT ASHLEY).

Anyhow, as I was saying before I went on that aside in quotes -- I was just intuiting that the more a soul progresses through the stages of evolution, that ability to "not feel so much" or "going numb to succeed in  life", get's more and more difficult to do.  I am quite sure, that I am onto something with this. So my query is/was around this dynamic.

If Ashley is moving out of consensus, or individuating, then perhaps her emotional sensativity can very well be an indication of individuating??? She is no longer able to "go numb" to her feelings like she was when her soul was in a consensus state and she is compensating for that old ability (to "not feel so much" like consensus do) with the medications. My theory is, that it is bc she is individuating, that she can no longer make this work for her like consensus people do. But she does not know that this is what is going on, so she just thinks,(her words) "Geez, what is wrong with me that I FEEL so much/ that I am so sensative!" She has it as though this is the problem, rather than a marker of her EVOLUTION more into 1st individuated!

And she has it that she is gonna fix that problem so she can atleast make it somewhat in this harsh world-- (hence, the MED Addiction). See what I am getting at?

I am hoping that this insight I am having, can be transmitted to her, bc I dont' think she will be able to free herself of her addiction, until she realizes that her inability to mask and cover her emotional sensativity isnt a FLAW, but is a marker that she is growing/evolving. --It is marking a part of her uniqueness (LEO H 11 MOON)--something that is "different from the norm" Leo Moon H11. See what I am trying to say?


Below was the post I was referring to when I asked you, or Steve, to comment .


Quote from: Dhyana on May 23, 2010, 04:37 AM
,
Here is something about Ashleys 11th house, that I think I might be able to explain.

If the original ruler, in general ,of the 11th house is Aquarius, and in Ashley's chart the 11th house ruler is the exact opposite, Leo, then her relationship with society is more of a personal individualized nature,(Leo 11, Moon in Leo 11). Using it as a means to understand and appreciate that her emotional world might be more unique than the common place, in that the ability of most in the consensus state is to "not feel so much",to "numb out" as Ashley recognizes she cannot do, even with the medicating ....She does feel so much, in comparison to "regular people" (consensus) that live as though it is natural to go numb. Ashley is very sensative. (ie. She cries about the dolphins when she watches the Discovery channel, she cannot watch drama movies without crying through the whole movie) So, she will have to finally acknowledge this emotional difference in herself in comparison to the norm, and appreciate it in herself --and that bc of it, it doesnt make her lacking, but makes her unique. She had kept saying "there must be something wrong with me, I cannot help that I am so sensative" and things like that. She was comparing herself, her emotional reality, to the "normal person". (Moon in 11th house in Leo)

Furthermore, her 11th house explains what I said in the post below

Quote from: Dhyana on May 22, 2010, 01:08 PM
Hi Lucius,

the question of society is an interesting one.

I do not think she cares about "society". For example, she doesnt even know about the oil spill.

She is so concentrated on one to one relating that society in general is not too interesting unless she can find SOME ONE out there in society to bond with.

Hard to explain

D

And I am not talking about INDULGENCE of EMOTIONS EITHER, as in Leo dramatics, ...BC with the 5th house being ruled by Aqaurius,she is also going to have to find a way to get some space from her emotional drama's/become more objective about this emotional experience that makes her unique in comparison to the norm. So it is not like I am saying she is needing free range/ to further dramatize these emotions, as a Leo moon can do so very well, (as I would know firsthand). I am talking about emotional ACKNOWLEDGEMENT -- Another razors edge(paradox of sorts,) to present, I suppose.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 01:40 AM by Dhyana »  Report to moderator    Logged 



ari moshe
Very Active Member

Posts: 296


  Re: idea for practice thread
« Reply #303 on: May 25, 2010, 09:15 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Dhyana,


Quote
And she has it that she is gonna fix that problem so she can atleast make it somewhat in this harsh world-- (hence, the MED Addiction). See what I am getting at?

I am hoping that this insight I am having, can be transmitted to her, bc I dont' think she will be able to free herself of her addiction, until she realizes that her inability to mask and cover her emotional sensativity isnt a FLAW, but is a marker that she is growing/evolving. --It is marking a part of her uniqueness (LEO H 11 MOON)--something that is "different from the norm" Leo Moon H11. See what I am trying to say?
I Just want to clarify that her uniqueness from the norm is marked by her evolutionary stage. The Leo Moon in the 11th, at this ea state, will manifest as a self image that pictures herself to be different than everyone else- and that will feel increasingly alienating. However I THINK the characteristics you described, emotional sensitivity, is her Neptune the 4th house. Moon in Leo in the 11th isn't really sensitive in the ways you are describing. In a latter stage, this signature can be sensitive to human rights, being blocked from fully expressing her individuality, sensitive to anyone being blocked from that etc.


Quote
I am hoping that this insight I am having, can be transmitted to her, bc I dont' think she will be able to free herself of her addiction, until she realizes that her inability to mask and cover her emotional sensativity isnt a FLAW, but is a marker that she is growing/evolving. --It is marking a part of her uniqueness (LEO H 11 MOON)--something that is "different from the norm" Leo Moon H11. See what I am trying to say?
I do want to validate that the Leo Moon in the 11th, at this ea state, does imply developing an identity that realizes itself as different from others. The Moon, being the force of integration for the entire evolutionary journey, means that she's always going to be reflecting back upon herself, her specialness, and how she can truly be who she is- so it very much is something important to recognize. This is all furthered by it's trine to Uranus, bi septile to the sn and venus, and Uranus semi square the Sun which is the ruler of the Moon. But again, her Moon signature, in and of itself correlate to her emotional sensitivity.


Quote
If the original ruler, in general ,of the 11th house is Aquarius, and in Ashley's chart the 11th house ruler is the exact opposite, Leo, then her relationship with society is more of a personal individualized nature,(Leo 11, Moon in Leo 11). Using it as a means to understand and appreciate that her emotional world might be more unique than the common place, in that the ability of most in the consensus state is to "not feel so much",to "numb out" as Ashley recognizes she cannot do, even with the medicating ....She does feel so much, in comparison to "regular people" (consensus) that live as though it is natural to go numb. Ashley is very sensative. (ie. She cries about the dolphins when she watches the Discovery channel, she cannot watch drama movies without crying through the whole movie) So, she will have to finally acknowledge this emotional difference in herself in comparison to the norm, and appreciate it in herself --and that bc of it, it doesnt make her lacking, but makes her unique. She had kept saying "there must be something wrong with me, I cannot help that I am so sensative" and things like that. She was comparing herself, her emotional reality, to the "normal person". (Moon in 11th house in Leo)
Think about it- dolphins, water, her sensitivity towards animals- all this is the activity, in particular her Neptune in Sag, with Jupiter, in her 4th house. So again, the self image of a Moon in Leo in the 11th does stand- she is unique, special, intelligent etc- and ought to know herself as that at this ea state. That ought to breed an inner picture of her differentness from others.

I've seen many charts with similar 4th houses- there is often an escape to drugs, (Neptune) amongst many other possibilities, because dealing with reality as it is, is too much a challenge for the security structures that have already been established in one's consciousness. Neptune in general can correlate to addictions for such a reason. Any form of escapism.

As always, this is my understanding. I do not assume I am 100% on with all of this. So I hope Steve or someone will jump in there if there is something that needs to be corrected.
Ari Moshe

[Elen]

Hi Dhyana & Ari,

Here's what I'm understanding about indicators of emotional sensitivity in a chart (not specific to Ashley):

1) You can't determine EA stage by the presence of these indicators
2) Anyone at any stage can have these indicators in their chart
3) "Strategies" for working with this sensitivity, in terms of effectiveness, will differ depending on stage because the OBJECTIVES will be different depending on stage.
4) Consensus people will work to suppress the sensitivity
5) Attempting to suppress the sensitivity by conventional means will no longer work for people in the individuated states.
6) Emotional sensitivity in the individuated states will prove to be a part of the individuating process as the person in the individuated states recognizes that it is one of the markers for her/his uniqueness.

Seem right?  Anything to add or correct?

Peace - and thanks SO MUCH for the learning conversation,

Ellen 

« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 03:36 PM by Ellen »  Report to moderator    204.169.161.1 



bluesky
Member

Posts: 30


  Re: idea for practice thread
« Reply #314 on: May 25, 2010, 04:16 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: Ellen on May 25, 2010, 03:33 PM

1) You can't determine EA stage by the presence of these indicators
2) Anyone at any stage can have these indicators in their chart
3) "Strategies" for working with this sensitivity, in terms of effectiveness, will differ depending on stage because the OBJECTIVES will be different depending on stage.
4) Consensus people will work to suppress the sensitivity
5) Attempting to suppress the sensitivity by conventional means will no longer work for people in the individuated states.
6) Emotional sensitivity in the individuated states will prove to be a part of the individuating process as the person in the individuated states recognizes that it is one of the markers for her/his uniqueness.

Ellen

Is that actually emotional dynamics?  and what would indicate that anyway - the moon in the chart? or would it be a whole series of factors?

[Elen]

Hi Bluesky,

I'm actually kind of swimming through all of this so I can't really answer your question.  What caught my eye with Ari & Dhyana's exchange was the reference to emotional "sensitivity".  From their posts, I took this to mean Neptune/Moon (and corresponding signs/houses).  In the context of that conversation, as I was understanding it, they were discussing how Ashley's emotional sensitivity was indicative of her evolutionary state - that if she were expressing that element in her chart differently, it would indicate a different evolutionary state (ie, consensus would suppress).  That led me to my post.  Can you explain what you mean by emotional dynamics and perhaps how that differs from emotional sensitivity?  That would help with my own learning process.  Perhaps sensitivity precedes dynamics (within oneself? with/towards others? both?)? 

Peace,
Ellen

[bluesky]

Hi Ellen,

well, I suppose what I was thinking of was that everyone has emotional sensitivity, but whether or not the dynamics of those emotions are expressed was another matter.

From Ari, I took it to mean that a consensus person would be inclined to suppress their emotional dynamics for the sake of fitting in. He then stated later in that post that, starting with 2nd individuated, the person would not be able to do that and would do "anything" to release themselves from it.

and I maybe was being too simplistic in thinking that the sensitivity/dynamics could be described via the moon in the person's chart...

I'm going to take a closer look at this thread you just posted, it looks like I didn't key into the moon/neptune angle other people were talking about.

[Elen]

Hi Ellen,

well, I suppose what I was thinking of was that everyone has emotional sensitivity, but whether or not the dynamics of those emotions are expressed was another matter.

Hi Bluesky,
Thanks.  This makes sense to me.  The only thing I would add is that I'm thinking people's levels of emotional sensitivity would differ and that, while this could be detected in the chart, how it manifests in terms of stage could not.  That makes me wonder what happens to a person in Consensus whose chart indicates strong emotional sensitivity.  Would they succeed in fully suppressing?  I don't have the answer, and I suspect my question is really naive - so many more factors to consider - but I wonder how you determine stage in a (hypothetical) situation like that....

From Ari, I took it to mean that a consensus person would be inclined to suppress their emotional dynamics for the sake of fitting in. He then stated later in that post that, starting with 2nd individuated, the person would not be able to do that and would do "anything" to release themselves from it.

This leaves me wondering about the emotional dynamics (using your distinction from emotional sensitivity) would look in 1st individuated.  More waffling? - trying to suppress but unable? (is this what Ashley is doing?)  Whereas in 2nd Ind the difference is that their not trying to suppress anymore and have absolutely no desire to do so....

and I maybe was being too simplistic in thinking that the sensitivity/dynamics could be described via the moon in the person's chart...

I'm going to take a closer look at this thread you just posted, it looks like I didn't key into the moon/neptune angle other people were talking about.

[bluesky]

Hi Ellen, I think it would be interesting to find out more about emotional expression through the evoluationary stages, too.

I'm guessing that in 1st individuated, there would definitely be more waffling, but less and less ability to suppress emotional dynamics, therefore the desire to be rid of emotional suppression once and for all in the 2nd individuated.

my question would be - are there any indicators that could be looked at in a chart to determine just how the emotional suppression/liberation is being acted out?

[Steve]

hi

Two cents - saying consensus suppresses emotional sensitivity is a big generalization.  There are plenty of sensitive emotive people in the consensus states   They would be channeling their emotional impulses differently than someone in say spiritual state.  It doesn't mean they are necessarily suppressing it.  They just have a different relationship to it because they have a different level of understanding of who they are.  They can be expressing it as best they know how, within the confines of their consensus orientation. Think artists, musicians, actors.  They are not all individuated.

[Dhyana]

Hi All,
Hi Steve,

Thanks for starting up this thread bc I felt it to be and important one.

.
I still feel there is something to be said about the fading ability/desire to suppress emotion to succeed in the world however (success as in the 3rd consensus stage) --and how this may at least help in fine tuning a stage, BUT EVER STILL, all of the person has to be taken into account as a whole, not just independent factors, emotional or otherwise.

--It is just as important to look into what avenues are they using their emotional energy and how it is being denied, supressed, or demonstrated? That will say a bit more about the stage of evolution, then if just looking at their level of sensativity alone. Everything has to be taken into account.

This is my sense of it.

Thanks
Dhyana

[Steve]

all of the person has to be taken into account as a whole, not just independent factors, emotional or otherwise.

Hi Dhyana

You are on the right track, but still it is more than just taking all of the person into account.  The evolutionary stage is the evolutionary stage of the Soul, not of the personality.   Without seeing the nature of the Soul you have no way to know the cause of the external phenomena you observe (level of emotional sensitivity, degree of repression, etc.)  You can not see this in a chart. 

You could have a highly evolved Soul who was tortured in a series of lives for expressing their truth.  That Soul could well have a deep fear of expressing their emotion, thus repressing it.   While a consensus person may have a series of lives where they were highly rewarded for expressing their emotions and being sensitive.  Thus will be reborn with a pre-existing tendency to express emotion and be sensitive. 

You have to grasp the nature of the Soul.  The externals, the personality, are EXPRESSIONS of the Soul.  Each Soul will have its own reasons for having some external expression - unique to each Soul based on its past and the desire nature of that Soul.  Without seeing the "why" behind the expression, you can't draw conclusions based on just the expression.

In the chart we get clues to the nature of the Soul from the location of Pluto by house and sign, the location of Pluto's south node by house and sign, the aspects Pluto is making to other planets by house and sign. 

I realize some of this may seem intangible.  From my experience learning these things, if you keep working with it, gradually an inner light will turn on, an "aha" occurs, and you start grasping it from the inside out.

[Dhyana]

Hi Steve,
Very valuable. Thanks for continuing to support us learning like this.

Dhyana

[stephen]

You have to grasp the nature of the Soul.  The externals, the personality, are EXPRESSIONS of the Soul.  Each Soul will have its own reasons for having some external expression - unique to each Soul based on its past and the desire nature of that Soul.  Without seeing the "why" behind the expression, you can't draw conclusions based on just the expression.

  I just want to say Steve that this REALLY woke me up some (again).  Thank you...

Blessings,
Stephen

[Elen]

hi

Two cents - saying consensus suppresses emotional sensitivity is a big generalization.  There are plenty of sensitive emotive people in the consensus states   They would be channeling their emotional impulses differently than someone in say spiritual state.  It doesn't mean they are necessarily suppressing it.  They just have a different relationship to it because they have a different level of understanding of who they are.  They can be expressing it as best they know how, within the confines of their consensus orientation. Think artists, musicians, actors.  They are not all individuated.

Thanks, Steve.  The trap is never-ending!

Peace,
Ellen

[ari moshe]

Thanks Steve- that was clarifying for me too.

I can't find my exact words/where I wrote it- but I'm pretty sure at some point that I did express an over generalization of these dynamics. Steve's post helped me place it in perspective: Emotional openness and suppression can exist at any ea state-

i.e. In the consensus state emotions CAN be suppressed for the sake of moving up in society whereas by second individuated emotions would not be suppressed for THOSE reasons, however they can still be suppressed.

[mountainheather]

Hi everyone,
I'm glad this thread has continued
If the soul emanates it's stage through the emotional body
would we want to look at that aspect as it reveals itself through
a persons perceptions of their own needs and thus want they are sensitive too.
I mean our perceieved needs are things we will be very emotionally sensitive to.
So it came to me that what a person feels they need, how they go about
getting that done , and well if they areeven aware of their needs
would be a starting point for exploring their evolutionary state.

[mountainheather]

Sorry all, I just hit post and wasn't finished, I'm typing on
my phone, not very well.
My thuoghts were stated with some conviction although I am
really wanting to know if I'm processing how to detect
evolutionary state with any accuracy.  I feel that the emotional
body state is a key and the clients assessment of there needs gets
the ball rollling in detecting their state, so their emotional
sensitivity would help in fleshing this out, even if we don' t look at the chart
Does this make sense?

Thanks, Heather


Thanks, Heather.

Ps.
I also got that maybe being sensitive to natural law of the trinity in the form
of God'dess, client, practitioner in assessing ea state would allow for non linear
flow of info to be revealed. Is this true?