idea for practice thread

[Dhyana]

Hi all,
What a valuable process this has been to share in.
I agree with Linda's last analysis and would add that
perhaps there is some cusp energy there 3rd - 1st indiv., she is at a threshold
afterall we have all been focussing alot of energy her way
thereby intensifying and expediting this process with her......
We've been cooperating in positively influencing her intentions to evolve
and I feel humbled and in awe of the creator.Thank you and bless you all,
Heather

Heather, Great point. I was feeling this same thing but didnt know quite how to say it.
So thank you for articulating it.

All, I am taking some time to really go through all of this with a fine tooth comb before I reply again.

Ari, I am going to repost my question to you about the 11th house, but I think it is becoming clearer by what Ellen was asking and how you responded, but I do want to take it to another level (maybe I can say).

Thank you.
Be back again.

Love,
Dhyana

[ari moshe]

So I looked over the last few pages this morning- I feel pretty clear about her being individuated. The comment about her addiction to prescription medications based on feeling awkward really did it for me. This implies a developing awareness of who she isn't in relation to who people are. In first consensus, it's not about social awkwardness as much as it's about trying to figure out a way to be like everyone else. She's just trying to be ok with herself. She seems to be beyond the need to conform for the sake of social acceptance alone.

My feelings are that she is beyond the transition from third stage consensus, having in recent lives made it to the individuated state. I suspect this based on the crescent phase Mars sextile Pluto. I don't know if that's a reasonable conclusion. The reason why I think this is because Mars Pluto phase correlates to how a soul identifies and consciously acts upon its evolutionary intent. In the crescent phase, a soul is internalizing it's newly established awareness of it's evolutionary intent (it's a yin phase) in order to make it more its own. By the time it reaches the first sextile, it requires a retreat from the external enviroment in order to reflect upon past dynamics, behaviors etc- and find far more self awareness. This then allows the soul to embrace new skills, opportunities, approaches etc that will support it's intentions.

If she were just entering the first individuated, then I'd have to ask "what was going on prior to this life, when the current evolutionary cylce was just beginning?" Given that the phase indicates this is not the first life time of these current intentions, and given her current state of awareness of alienation, social insecurity etc- it seems like this lifetime is about, going more within and finding more self awareness in order to proceed in her evolutionary journey in a new way that reflects the newly established self awareness.

In conclusion, right now (haha), I deduce her ea state to be beginning of first individuated.

I hope Steve or someone will jump in here if any of this wasn't accurate. This is my first time applying the phases in this way (this thread has actually been many "firsts" for me!)
Ari moshe

[Elen]

Given that the phase indicates this is not the first life time of these current intentions, and given her current state of awareness of alienation, social insecurity etc- it seems like this lifetime is about, going more within and finding more self awareness in order to proceed in her evolutionary journey in a new way that reflects the newly established self awareness.

Hi Ari,
The above was really eye opening to me.  You have to understand the evolutionary intent WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF MANY LIVES.  Thus, even though 2nd house Pluto, Individuated, will EVENTUALLY need to learn to share her gifts/skills/resources with others, that will not and cannot happen until the internalization process has been successfully completed, and that may take more than one lifetime. That is a huge piece for me.


In conclusion, right now (haha), I deduce her ea state to be beginning of first individuated.

Haha is so right!

I hope Steve or someone will jump in here if any of this wasn't accurate. This is my first time applying the phases in this way (this thread has actually been many "firsts" for me!)
Ari moshe

[Upasika]

Hi Ari & Ellen (and all),

Ari, as Ellen has also said, excellent piece of correlation you've done there ! It makes really good sense.

I came to the feeling she is first individated by everything that we've discussed eventually leading to a gut feeling that she was, I just suddenly got such a strong feeling about it.

But looking at why that feeling arose, I identified in particular (amongst other things):

- Ellen's points, all of which seemed very good to me

regarding the hair work ... "she feels inadequate, comparing herself to others (Virgo Asc, Gemini MH, Mercury conj Pluto), thus she does not pursue it (ie, it is not intrinsic laziness that stops her). In addition to these factors, there is 1) the feeling of lifelong alienation, 2) addiction (w/c seems to ease her anxiety re: social awkwardness- is this correct?).  The desire to love/be loved could be a desire that arises from her core feelings of alienation....

* the thing I couldn't see too well was the meds that Heather kept referring to, but I can see how they probably fit into Ashley's life via Ellen's suggestion

and to that I added:

- Steve's point that she is a Libra Sun, so would also be naturally comparing herself to other's a lot.

- Steve's point that the trauma could be a mask, and Pam's feeling that her psychological issues/trauma were not necessarily relevant to her actual EA stage, and when Linda pointed out the tidal wave of Pluto energy she's had via back to back transits for the last so many years, it made me feel that the insecurity and unsureness Ashley feels could probably be attributed by that to a significant extent (meaning ...not necessarily a lack of awareness operating here, but huge internal upheavel with maybe a lot of resistance, thus leading to confusion and a sense of powerlessness, which then she projected onto everyone.)

- Pam's feeling that all the balsamic conjunctions in her Scorpio planets indicated a transition of Pisces nature. I feel Ashley is probably actually 1st individuated rather than cusp of 1st indiv, but I also agree with Ari, that I think she is earliesh in that stage. The Pisces flavor of the balsamic has probably been responsible for a lot of Ashley's "meandering" and lack of purpose, and partly her complaining.

- She has Moon trine Uranus. I know there is far more analysis of the chart necessary to confirm a hypothesis that she might be individuated than just this one thing. However my memory of every chart I've come across where either the Sun or Moon are in major aspect to Uranus those people have been strong individualists. And backing that up she also has Sun semisquare Uranus. (Thats's just my experience and so it's somewhat subjective, but it was a clue for me that she would be an individualist at least, even if not in an individuated stage).

Then I added to that, that Venus (NN ruler conj the SN in relive condition) is in wide balsamic conjunction to Uranus, I felt she's probably been working with Uranus energy in prior lives. I had felt this might be a clue that she possibly wasn't consensus.

- Dhyana's own feeling became pretty consolidated within herself that Ashley was individuated

- that she obviously wasn't 2nd or 3rd consensus, or 2nd individuated - so those ruled out (negation, as you suggested Lucius)

- and that she wasn't 1st consensus either, just was too tuned into something "more than the normal" for this to be so. I know the odd few 1st consensus people quite well, and believe me they just don't have any interest in things like regression, as in this quote from Dhyana below  ...

I also asked her if she would consider doing a regression session ( I was thinking of Patricia Walsch), but I didnt go into "past life beliefs" with her, I just said it is a process that may bring you into old emotional shock and trauma, that are held in your body, perhaps even handed down to you through your genetic heritage. She was most interested in this, out of all the different modalities we talked about.

(and also, that Ashley went as far as she did in sharing herself with Dhyana).

- that her attitude to job and normal values were not normal, as in the 1st consensus type of normal. That finally tipped it for me.

* I also liked Heather's final analysis.

Wow... what an amazing journey. I'm very grateful and honored to have been a part of that. Thank you to everyone. And thank you Ellen for your courage and trust to start such a group process. And thanks and best wishes to Ashley too, we couldn't have done this without her openess and cooperation.

Upasika

[Linda]

I came to the feeling she is first individated by everything that we've discussed eventually leading to a gut feeling that she was, I just suddenly got such a strong feeling about it.

Yes, Upasika, I suddenly got that strong gut feeling, too, that she is definitely Individuated.  This learning process has been so valuable.

[Steve]

hi Upasika

- She has Moon trine Uranus. I know there is far more analysis of the chart necessary to confirm a hypothesis that she might be individuated than just this one thing. However my memory of every chart I've come across where either the Sun or Moon are in major aspect to Uranus those people have been strong individualists. And backing that up she also has Sun semisquare Uranus. (Thats's just my experience and so it's somewhat subjective, but it was a clue for me that she would be an individualist at least, even if not in an individuated stage).

I agree with most of your conclusions.  I just want to comment on this one - you are making a common conclusion that to me is based on a misunderstanding.  There is NO inherent connection between what you see in a chart and an evolutionary stage.   

Astrologers are most likely to see people who are in the individuated and spiritual states.  Thus you can provide anecdotal evidence that the Uranian transits you refer to in charts you have seen indicate at minimum individuated state.  But that has more to do with the evolutionary state of the people whose charts you've seen this in than it does with any indication that symbols in the chart relate in some way to an evolutionary state - you are not looking at charts that are representative of the distribution of evol stages across the human race. 

70% of the human race is in consensus, and that includes people who have the Uranian chart symbols you are referring to. Remember that Sarah Palin has 5 planets conjunct in Aquarius, and Dick Cheney has an 11th house Pluto opposed by Sun in Aquarius, and Mercury in Aquarius.   

It is really important to grasp there is nothing linear in any of this.  I realize you said "individualist" and not individuated, but "individualist" doesn't add anything here in relation to determining evol stage.  I don't want that distinction to confuse anyone.  To determine someone's evolutionary stage we have to look at their life, at their words, their actions, their motivations, and that which lies below their words and actions.  It has nothing inherently to do with symbols you see in a chart. 

If you determine someone is, say 2nd stage individuated, and then look at their chart and see a bunch of Uranian aspects, there can be a tendency to say "ah hah, there is the PROOF!".  We have to remember that the exact same chart could be that of a person in 2nd stage consensus, where the Uranian symbols would be interpreted in very different ways.  In other words, we humans tend to bring our pre-determined conclusions into new situations, see evidence of what we've seen before, and then feel we have proven again to self its a pattern similar to what we have seen before.  (Our brains are wired to do that, so its very common to do so).  My point is, when we do that we are not using intuition to see and hear the specifics of this particular chart - we are dragging our personal filters into the picture and thus are likely to miss much of the uniqueness of the chart we are looking at. 

For anyone not clear on what I mean, please review Ari's post - he expresses a very good understanding of this here:
https://forum.schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/index.php/topic,232.msg3285.html#msg3285
thank you, hope this is helpful
Steve

[PamS]

Hi everyone,

Wow what wonderful work you all have done"¦.

Ok I feel like I kinda got pulled back into this and need to clarify so I don't confuse anyone"¦.


Pam's feeling that all the balsamic conjunctions in her Scorpio planets indicated a transition of Pisces nature. I feel Ashley is probably actually 1st individuated rather than cusp of 1st indiv, but I also agree with Ari, that I think she is earliest in that stage. The Pisces flavor of the balsamic has probably been responsible for a lot of Ashley's "meandering" and lack of purpose, and partly her complaining.

Upaskia,
You kind taking me out of context again, but not a problem, this is all part of the process.  Im happy to clear it up so I make myself clear. 

First I  agree with everyones asemnent  she is in very early 1st indivuated , that seems right to me.  Now to say because I said she has balsamic conjunctions in Scorpio therefore then she is transitioning from 3rd  stage consensus to 1st indivuated is never what I meant. This far more of a complex process.  Transition does not necessilary means transition is EA stages"¦ I think I said that with the Mars -Pluto aspect.. I think and still think and hear from what everyone has said, this souls is in transition"¦ Now is every soul in transition, yes in a meta sense.  It is just complex and nuanced, one gets a taste for it. 

Pisces by it very nature is culmination-transitory energy.  Balsamic conjunctions are Pisces in flavor. . Which means that those planets are in a culmination, preparing to move on- transitory place. When one sees lots of balsamic conjunctions in a chart there is some kind of culmination/transition going on.  Now that' does not mean in a EA stage, that means the souls is culmination life times of experiences ready to move on to the next stage of their development.  So simply saying that the Pisces flavor of the balsamic conjunction is symbolic of her meandering and lack of purpose is not quite right.  The meandering and lack of purpose come from somewhere.  Pisces does not come out of thin air.  All stages have balsamic conjunctions"¦ 

Per the stages, they always overlap that to me is a given.  1st stage indivuated does not mean that consensus is over, no way"¦ Liberation from the consensus continues well into indivuated. 

Hope I made myself more clear.. thank you all I have learned so very much"¦.

if I confused you so sorry, I think in my need to explain I ovelry simplfied in previous posts...

Look forward to the next round"¦

Blessings,

Pam

[Upasika]

Hi Pam,

Nice to hear from you again.

I'm very sorry if you feel I've taken you out of context, have absolutely no intention of that, so let's look and see what is happening in our understanding/communication of/with each other...

What I was referring to was

I was also just looking at the chart and see that the ruler of the SN Pluto in Scorpio in the 2nd is Balsamic SN in Scorpio in the 3rd which also tells me that she has been working on this (metamorphsis of values)  prior to this incarnation.   We also see the Ruler of the NN Venus in Scorpio in the 3rd in New Phase with Pluto as well as with the SN which tells me that she is starting metamorphosing (Scorpio) new ideas (Gemini) which leads me to think that she is in transition.... I cant remember the exact Pluto -Mars aspect but it is early so once again, new ... which leads to to think even more she is 3rd consensus moving into 1st indivuated....

What I got from that was ....
metamorphsis of values
starting metamorphosing new ideas which leads me to think that she is in transition.... I cant remember the exact Pluto -Mars aspect but it is early so once again, new ... which leads to to think even more she is 3rd consensus moving into 1st indivuated....

And what I said in reference to this was:
Pam's feeling that all the balsamic conjunctions in her Scorpio planets indicated a transition of Pisces nature.

OK I can see straight away that you only referred to one balsamic conjunction, and the other conjunctions were new. My mistake - got that wrong. But you do agree I think that balsamic conjunctions do have a Pisces flavour (as in ending of a cycle). That's what I specifically attributed to you.

I had taken that point on board, and from there the rest was my own reasoning about it. I can see by saying that I felt she was early 1st indiv and not on the cusp straight after my reference to you, it looks like I'm saying you connected the balsamic conjunctions to her being on the cusp. Actually in a loose sense I think I did get that impression, so it's good you've clarified what you meant. But I was also meaning to allude generally to all who were suggesting she was on the cusp too regardless of why, not really specifically related to what you've said. Anyhow I can see very obviously I'm not expressing in a clear way ... definitely something to work on.

The meandering and lack of purpose was my feeling, which I had taken as my own understanding based on various other posts (for example by Rad). I felt the meandering could be a result of the mixture of balsamic and new conjunctions linked in a loose stellium pulled into and focussed around one house, creating confusing urges (and of course I could be wrong about that !) ... and I wasn't referring to her stage there.

Basically everything I has said in that post was about my own process and the things that contributed to that process, and even if I got the wrong end of the stick about what someone had meant, that still stimulated me and went into my process anyway, and that was what I was trying to describe, that was my whole purpose, rather than to report what others had said. However, in doing that I certainly may have misquoted and/or misunderstood you, and if so I do apologise Pam (we'll get there!)

I am rapidly learning that, with so many of us communicating on the same subject together, that for me anyway I need to be much clearer about what I understand others are saying, and then also clearer in presenting what I want to say. Its a learning process for sure! And thanks for your communication and efforts to clear things up, and for explaining more fully what you did mean, I do appreciate it, and find what you say always informative and helpful in learning about EA....

blessings, Upasika

[Dhyana]

... I get the strong sense that EVERY ONE PARTICIPATING HERE, is learning and intergrating, a lot more than what Ashley's EA stage is~

What Grace

Dhyana

[Dhyana]

Hi Dhyana,
Thank you so much for clarifying & re-clarifying your understanding of Ashley & what Ashley has actually said. Here are the things that have popped out at me re: Ashley since your meeting with her: 1) She wants, above all else to love & to be loved ; 2) she feels socially inadequate; 3) with regard to work as a hairdresser, she feels inadequate, comparing herself to others (Virgo Asc, Gemini MH, Mercury conj Pluto), thus she does not pursue it (ie, it is not intrinsic laziness that stops her). In addition to these factors, there is 1) the feeling of lifelong alienation, 2) addiction (w/c seems to ease her anxiety re: social awkwardness- is this correct? FROM DHYANA:YES....!)  The desire to love/be loved could be a desire that arises from her core feelings of alienation. This is how I am seeing things right now. To me all indicating Individuated. My heart truly goes out to Ashley. Peace,Ellen

[Dhyana]

Hi Ari,


I cannot thank you enough for all the resources your participation in this thread wiill give me to support Ashley. As you must know, my EA understanding thus far, couldn't come even close to what you have presented here!    ---I just don't even know what to say...

...Well, I will put it to good use.
---------------------

So below is the post I was asking for you to comment on for me. I was trying to emphasize that consensus are able to avoid "feeling too much" or they just can "go numb" so that they can function in the world, you know? (and as an aside, I remember someone writing in reference to Ashley the word "numb" , and that is was not the context or the reference person I was talking about with that word, I was talking about consensus going "numb", NOT ASHLEY).

Anyhow, as I was saying before I went on that aside in quotes -- I was just intuiting that the more a soul progresses through the stages of evolution, that ability to "not feel so much" or "going numb to succeed in  life", get's more and more difficult to do.  I am quite sure, that I am onto something with this. So my query is/was around this dynamic.

If Ashley is moving out of consensus, or individuating, then perhaps her emotional sensativity can very well be an indication of individuating??? She is no longer able to "go numb" to her feelings like she was when her soul was in a consensus state and she is compensating for that old ability (to "not feel so much" like consensus do) with the medications. My theory is, that it is bc she is individuating, that she can no longer make this work for her like consensus people do. But she does not know that this is what is going on, so she just thinks,(her words) "Geez, what is wrong with me that I FEEL so much/ that I am so sensative!" She has it as though this is the problem, rather than a marker of her EVOLUTION more into 1st individuated!

And she has it that she is gonna fix that problem so she can atleast make it somewhat in this harsh world-- (hence, the MED Addiction). See what I am getting at?

I am hoping that this insight I am having, can be transmitted to her, bc I dont' think she will be able to free herself of her addiction, until she realizes that her inability to mask and cover her emotional sensativity isnt a FLAW, but is a marker that she is growing/evolving. --It is marking a part of her uniqueness (LEO H 11 MOON)--something that is "different from the norm" Leo Moon H11. See what I am trying to say?


Below was the post I was referring to when I asked you, or Steve, to comment .

,
Here is something about Ashleys 11th house, that I think I might be able to explain.

If the original ruler, in general ,of the 11th house is Aquarius, and in Ashley's chart the 11th house ruler is the exact opposite, Leo, then her relationship with society is more of a personal individualized nature,(Leo 11, Moon in Leo 11). Using it as a means to understand and appreciate that her emotional world might be more unique than the common place, in that the ability of most in the consensus state is to "not feel so much",to "numb out" as Ashley recognizes she cannot do, even with the medicating ....She does feel so much, in comparison to "regular people" (consensus) that live as though it is natural to go numb. Ashley is very sensative. (ie. She cries about the dolphins when she watches the Discovery channel, she cannot watch drama movies without crying through the whole movie) So, she will have to finally acknowledge this emotional difference in herself in comparison to the norm, and appreciate it in herself --and that bc of it, it doesnt make her lacking, but makes her unique. She had kept saying "there must be something wrong with me, I cannot help that I am so sensative" and things like that. She was comparing herself, her emotional reality, to the "normal person". (Moon in 11th house in Leo)

Furthermore, her 11th house explains what I said in the post below

Hi Lucius,

the question of society is an interesting one.

I do not think she cares about "society". For example, she doesnt even know about the oil spill.

She is so concentrated on one to one relating that society in general is not too interesting unless she can find SOME ONE out there in society to bond with.

Hard to explain

D

[Upasika]

Hi Dhyana,

Just like to say I understand what you're saying, I think you could be onto something there too. For me it was these kinds of impressions/hunches you had about Ashley that contributed to my gut feeling she was individuated.... just kinda fits and makes sense of things.

Upasika

[Dhyana]

Hi Ari,


I cannot thank you enough for all the resources your participation in this thread wiill give me to support Ashley. As you must know, my EA understanding thus far, couldn't come even close to what you have presented here!    ---I just don't even know what to say...

...Well, I will put it to good use.
---------------------

So below is the post I was asking for you to comment on for me. I was trying to emphasize that consensus are able to avoid "feeling too much" or they just can "go numb" so that they can function in the world, you know? (and as an aside, I remember someone writing in reference to Ashley the word "numb" , and that is was not the context or the reference person I was talking about with that word, I was talking about consensus going "numb", NOT ASHLEY).

Anyhow, as I was saying before I went on that aside in quotes -- I was just intuiting that the more a soul progresses through the stages of evolution, that ability to "not feel so much" or "going numb to succeed in  life", get's more and more difficult to do.  I am quite sure, that I am onto something with this. So my query is/was around this dynamic.

If Ashley is moving out of consensus, or individuating, then perhaps her emotional sensativity can very well be an indication of individuating??? She is no longer able to "go numb" to her feelings like she was when her soul was in a consensus state and she is compensating for that old ability (to "not feel so much" like consensus do) with the medications. My theory is, that it is bc she is individuating, that she can no longer make this work for her like consensus people do. But she does not know that this is what is going on, so she just thinks,(her words) "Geez, what is wrong with me that I FEEL so much/ that I am so sensative!" She has it as though this is the problem, rather than a marker of her EVOLUTION more into 1st individuated!

And she has it that she is gonna fix that problem so she can atleast make it somewhat in this harsh world-- (hence, the MED Addiction). See what I am getting at?

I am hoping that this insight I am having, can be transmitted to her, bc I dont' think she will be able to free herself of her addiction, until she realizes that her inability to mask and cover her emotional sensativity isnt a FLAW, but is a marker that she is growing/evolving. --It is marking a part of her uniqueness (LEO H 11 MOON)--something that is "different from the norm" Leo Moon H11. See what I am trying to say?


Below was the post I was referring to when I asked you, or Steve, to comment .

,
Here is something about Ashleys 11th house, that I think I might be able to explain.

If the original ruler, in general ,of the 11th house is Aquarius, and in Ashley's chart the 11th house ruler is the exact opposite, Leo, then her relationship with society is more of a personal individualized nature,(Leo 11, Moon in Leo 11). Using it as a means to understand and appreciate that her emotional world might be more unique than the common place, in that the ability of most in the consensus state is to "not feel so much",to "numb out" as Ashley recognizes she cannot do, even with the medicating ....She does feel so much, in comparison to "regular people" (consensus) that live as though it is natural to go numb. Ashley is very sensative. (ie. She cries about the dolphins when she watches the Discovery channel, she cannot watch drama movies without crying through the whole movie) So, she will have to finally acknowledge this emotional difference in herself in comparison to the norm, and appreciate it in herself --and that bc of it, it doesnt make her lacking, but makes her unique. She had kept saying "there must be something wrong with me, I cannot help that I am so sensative" and things like that. She was comparing herself, her emotional reality, to the "normal person". (Moon in 11th house in Leo)

Furthermore, her 11th house explains what I said in the post below

Hi Lucius,

the question of society is an interesting one.

I do not think she cares about "society". For example, she doesnt even know about the oil spill.

She is so concentrated on one to one relating that society in general is not too interesting unless she can find SOME ONE out there in society to bond with.

Hard to explain

D

And I am not talking about INDULGENCE of EMOTIONS EITHER, as in Leo dramatics, ...BC with the 5th house being ruled by Aqaurius,she is also going to have to find a way to get some space from her emotional drama's/become more objective about this emotional experience that makes her unique in comparison to the norm. So it is not like I am saying she is needing free range/ to further dramatize these emotions, as a Leo moon can do so very well, (as I would know firsthand). I am talking about emotional ACKNOWLEDGEMENT -- Another razors edge(paradox of sorts,) to present, I suppose.

[ari moshe]

Hi Dhyana,

And she has it that she is gonna fix that problem so she can atleast make it somewhat in this harsh world-- (hence, the MED Addiction). See what I am getting at?

I am hoping that this insight I am having, can be transmitted to her, bc I dont' think she will be able to free herself of her addiction, until she realizes that her inability to mask and cover her emotional sensativity isnt a FLAW, but is a marker that she is growing/evolving. --It is marking a part of her uniqueness (LEO H 11 MOON)--something that is "different from the norm" Leo Moon H11. See what I am trying to say?

I Just want to clarify that her uniqueness from the norm is marked by her evolutionary stage. The Leo Moon in the 11th, at this ea state, will manifest as a self image that pictures herself to be different than everyone else- and that will feel increasingly alienating. However I THINK the characteristics you described, emotional sensitivity, is her Neptune the 4th house. Moon in Leo in the 11th isn't really sensitive in the ways you are describing. In a latter stage, this signature can be sensitive to human rights, being blocked from fully expressing her individuality, sensitive to anyone being blocked from that etc.

I am hoping that this insight I am having, can be transmitted to her, bc I dont' think she will be able to free herself of her addiction, until she realizes that her inability to mask and cover her emotional sensativity isnt a FLAW, but is a marker that she is growing/evolving. --It is marking a part of her uniqueness (LEO H 11 MOON)--something that is "different from the norm" Leo Moon H11. See what I am trying to say?

I do want to validate that the Leo Moon in the 11th, at this ea state, does imply developing an identity that realizes itself as different from others. The Moon, being the force of integration for the entire evolutionary journey, means that she's always going to be reflecting back upon herself, her specialness, and how she can truly be who she is- so it very much is something important to recognize. This is all furthered by it's trine to Uranus, bi septile to the sn and venus, and Uranus semi square the Sun which is the ruler of the Moon. But again, her Moon signature, in and of itself correlate to her emotional sensitivity.

If the original ruler, in general ,of the 11th house is Aquarius, and in Ashley's chart the 11th house ruler is the exact opposite, Leo, then her relationship with society is more of a personal individualized nature,(Leo 11, Moon in Leo 11). Using it as a means to understand and appreciate that her emotional world might be more unique than the common place, in that the ability of most in the consensus state is to "not feel so much",to "numb out" as Ashley recognizes she cannot do, even with the medicating ....She does feel so much, in comparison to "regular people" (consensus) that live as though it is natural to go numb. Ashley is very sensative. (ie. She cries about the dolphins when she watches the Discovery channel, she cannot watch drama movies without crying through the whole movie) So, she will have to finally acknowledge this emotional difference in herself in comparison to the norm, and appreciate it in herself --and that bc of it, it doesnt make her lacking, but makes her unique. She had kept saying "there must be something wrong with me, I cannot help that I am so sensative" and things like that. She was comparing herself, her emotional reality, to the "normal person". (Moon in 11th house in Leo)

Think about it- dolphins, water, her sensitivity towards animals- all this is the activity, in particular her Neptune in Sag, with Jupiter, in her 4th house. So again, the self image of a Moon in Leo in the 11th does stand- she is unique, special, intelligent etc- and ought to know herself as that at this ea state. That ought to breed an inner picture of her differentness from others.

I've seen many charts with similar 4th houses- there is often an escape to drugs, (Neptune) amongst many other possibilities, because dealing with reality as it is, is too much a challenge for the security structures that have already been established in one's consciousness. Neptune in general can correlate to addictions for such a reason. Any form of escapism.

As always, this is my understanding. I do not assume I am 100% on with all of this. So I hope Steve or someone will jump in there if there is something that needs to be corrected.
Ari Moshe

[PamS]

Hello all,

Thanks Upaskia,


no problem yes we are all learning...  As amazing as it sounds, I still dont have a ah ha with this chart or ashley I keep getting very lost in the dialogue which is why I choose to step out a bit.  I just feel a haze over the language.  It still feels like words to me, which is interesting to me in and of itself.. but that is my issue with this chart - ... So I will just keep being a vouryer and try and figure out what is going on inside me....

blessings to all...tiill next chart

pam