PRACTICE CHARTS

[Rad]

Hi,

Ok, let's continue on our journey. Let's now put the ruler of that S.Node in the 10th house remembering that the S.Node will use that house placement of it's ruler as the basis or archetype of actualizing itself, just as Pluto uses the S.Node of the Moon to actualize it's desires.
Let's have a go at it !

Rad

[Issa]

Hi all --

I'm deeply behind here - haven't read much on the south node in gemini yet - instead of waiting longer to read and write, i'm gonna go for it and catch up as i will

south node in gemini creates loads of different types of experiences in order to exhaust the limitations and parameters that the pluto in scorpio person necessarily needs to exhaust.  This includes an entire scope of experiences and tinkerings that revolve around the ultimate desire to land solidly, with a tenth house rulership, into a way of understanding one's own mind/thought process as well as working through those capricorn conditioning factors from the past that CREATED the scope within which one was conditioned to think or act.  Within the sifting through of all these various types of experiences, the natural capricorn/10th house archetype exhibts its authority over all of it.  Undoubtedly some experiences bring up much discomfort because of what has been stifled and needs to be continually worked out THROUGH (3rd house experiences) -- to create the transformative 8th house pluto being
Is this atleast the beginning of a solid launch pad of understanding?

Issa

[ari moshe]

hi rad,
point of clarification- when we put the ruler of sn in 10th house, are we assuming a gemini sn and thus mercury in 10th, or are we just being very generic right now?

[Rad]

hi rad,
point of clarification- when we put the ruler of sn in 10th house, are we assuming a gemini sn and thus mercury in 10th, or are we just being very generic right now?

Hi Ari,

Generic ...

Rad

[Rad]

Hi all --

I'm deeply behind here - haven't read much on the south node in gemini yet - instead of waiting longer to read and write, i'm gonna go for it and catch up as i will

south node in gemini creates loads of different types of experiences in order to exhaust the limitations and parameters that the pluto in scorpio person necessarily needs to exhaust.  This includes an entire scope of experiences and tinkerings that revolve around the ultimate desire to land solidly, with a tenth house rulership, into a way of understanding one's own mind/thought process as well as working through those capricorn conditioning factors from the past that CREATED the scope within which one was conditioned to think or act.  Within the sifting through of all these various types of experiences, the natural capricorn/10th house archetype exhibts its authority over all of it.  Undoubtedly some experiences bring up much discomfort because of what has been stifled and needs to be continually worked out THROUGH (3rd house experiences) -- to create the transformative 8th house pluto being
Is this atleast the beginning of a solid launch pad of understanding?

Issa

Hi Issa,
  First , we are just doing a generic thing at the moment ..........not Pluto in Scorpio, S.Node in Gemni, etc .. it's just generic right now. Second, you need to develop much more fuller that basis of what you are saying / describing in order to show/ demonstrate the inter-relationship of Pluto, the S.Node, and the location of it's planetary ruler. I can see that is what you are trying to do though. It just needs much fuller development.

Rad

[Linda]

SN Ruler 10th

This person would have the ability to utilize the powerful information gathered and social contacts with prominent members of society for a social purpose, role or function. 

Information would be disseminated in a way that was logical and easy to understand by the society, organisation or wider audience.  Information would be gathered in a methodical, disciplined and organised way for a practical use.  The ability to apply mental skills toward a practical application.

Could have an encyclopaedic mind possessed of an enormous amount of useful and practical information.  A great capacity to communicate effectively in writing or speech, to inform others, to reach a larger audience, to influence others, and to initiate and lead.

Would need to display acceptable conduct and would need to work within the rules of society or the organisation.  Could abuse power by manipulating the system, through the power of words, or by withholding information. 

This person would desire an authoritative or prominent position, could use the knowledge/social contacts to achieve financial success, personal goals, and social power.

[Stacie]

So Rad, in terms of approaching this generically, are we at least acknowledging that mercury is the planetary function that is developing the SN?...or are we keeping it even more generic than that?  Hey this is 10th house fun we're having..defining boundaries!

[ari moshe]

hey stacie
i'll answer that bc i think i'm pretty clear on how we're approaching this.

the answer is no- we haven't placed the signs on the chart yet. we're just dealing with those houses generically.

Hey this is 10th house fun we're having..defining boundaries

haha! yes, in fact...
our intent is to understand the core dynamics and reasons for any soul's incarnation (8th house). this is happening via an internet forum (3rd house) in which we have embraced a defined structure as well as a defined system through which we can learn (10th house). 

[Stacie]

whoa, you're right Ari.. didn't even notice my own projection.  while a relatively innocent slip in the context of this exercise, it can't be understated how important it is in EA work to leave our subconscious projections at the door.. these have incredible potential to create harm for the people we are actually intending to help, so i'll take this one as a very welcome reminder!

thanks 

[Rad]

So Rad, in terms of approaching this generically, are we at least acknowledging that mercury is the planetary function that is developing the SN?...or are we keeping it even more generic than that?  Hey this is 10th house fun we're having..defining boundaries!

Hi Stacie,

  We must always remember when understanding and analyzing birth charts from an EA point of view that the Natural Zodiac is always the baseline upon which to build our total understanding of the symbols within the birth chart. Thus, with the generic S.Node in the 3rd house that means that the Natural Zodiac directly correlates to Gemini and Mercury. Thus, the S.Node can be in whatever sign in the 3rd house but the underlying archetype within that is indeed Mercury and Gemini. No different than, in our example, with the planetary ruler of that generic S.Node being in the 10th house. The underlying archetype, relative to the Natural Zodiac, is of course Capricorn and Saturn. So whatever the actual planet is in that 10th House will itself be defined, conditioned by, Saturn and the nature of the 10th House.

  Rad

[Stacie]

With the ruler of south node in the 10th, development of self image in past life ego structures has occurred through a process of self-reflection, emotional maturation, defining/establishing personal authority, and self-determined setting/achievement of goals. 

The focus of self reflection will be related to early conditioning which will have some kind of emphasis toward prevailing norms that have been defined and advocated by society.  One will have an emphasized tendency to reflect upon how closely one is fitting the "˜typical molds', and how fitting these molds, or not fitting these molds, impacts upon one's personal sense of authority or credibility in the eyes of the world, and how one's credibility in the eyes of the world has an impact on the relative successes or obstacles one experiences in the context of one's sociological function/role/work.   

The gender one embodies will also be a point of private reflection, relative to how closely the personal sense of identity matches the commonly accepted definitions and expectations for what type of behavior and appearance is considered appropriate to one's gender assignment. 

There will be a natural focus on the nature of one's personal conduct within the context of societal interactions relative to the roles one has assumed. The sense of identity will be seen as a reflection of one's conduct and how other's in society respond to it.  This will be a focus of ongoing refection in order to arrive at the answer of the question, 'who am I'?

One will experience a natural gravitation toward leadership roles, either feeling a natural sense of destiny or entitlement for becoming or gaining acknowledgement as a leader, or the exact opposite, or a combination of both.  The nature of one's personal sense and orientation to authority will condition how one sees their own competency for assuming such roles of leadership. 

If the person is oriented primarily to external authority, an intense focus on conforming to the realities of others more socially powerful than oneself will become the basis for how one conducts oneself, and how judgements are formulated that will serve as the basis for decision-making in the context of their  leadership and work therein.  The sense of personal security, in who they are as an identity, will be connected with one's power to make decisions that impact the lives of others who are below them on the hierarchal totem pole.  They will feel an emotional need to preserve their rank in that hierarchy, and in extreme cases, at any expense.  A person with this orientation will tend to project responsibility for failures on external sources and repress suggestions which point responsibility directly to them.  Over time this will produce an increasingly rigid pattern of needing to control oneself and others through an almost robotic compliance to the rules and regulations which have served one's interests in the past.  One will see their own security as dependent upon maintaining one's existing status, and over time as the dynamics and procedures of society change and evolve, there will be a private and progressively intense feeling of vulnerability as generations below them begin to manifest the promise of their blossoming maturity...this will trigger emotional dynamics and reflections about one's increasing perception of their own mortality, and induce personal insecurities about the fact that they are moving into a progressively declining phase of life.  This can induce an emotional psychology of resignation...resigning to a life of merely going through the motions and attempting to sustain personal security via "˜control'...this is because they have not done the adequate work of defining who they are as a unique individual, with a unique quality of personal authority...thus they cannot see themselves independently of the social positions they have allowed themselves to become extensions of.  As life progresses, the energy to try and control one's life becomes utterly exhausted, and the individual will find themselves with no choice but to reflect anew upon who they are from the point of view of where life has brought them.  They may ask themselves, 'How did I get this way?', and they will spend a great deal of time reflecting on this somber question in a very deep and internalized way, which in many cases will manifest as chronic depression. 

If the person is oriented primarily to their own unique and personal sense of authority..i.e. inner authority..this will also define the nature of judgement formation in the course of their sociological work.  One will tend to approach this by reflecting upon the knowledge they have gained over the course of their own personal experience, and relate this knowledge/experienced wisdom to the circumstances at hand.  A person oriented to inner authority will also go about implementing decisions in a very different way than those who are oriented primarily to external authority.  These people will give serious and respectful consideration to all decisions before them...how the decision will impact all people involved, and how it will serve the existing goals of whatever larger structure it relates to over the long haul.  If any decision leads to failure, such an individual will wholeheartedly embrace accountability for whatever error in judgement was responsible for the failure, and tney will make a self-determined effort to learn from this in order not to repeat faulty decisions like it again.  Over the course of life this will promote a very deep and stable self-respect within oneself for the self-determination they have personally demonstrated in life, even when the climb has been grueling  and hard.  This will build a quiet knowing within the individual of who they truly are, and that whatever legitimate competency they have manifested in life is REAL, and not a mere appearance of social posturing.  The nature of this self-respect will have been derived from many experiences throughout the course of life in which they have witnessed others who have misused the power of their responsibilities to the detriment of others, for their own gain.  Those experiences will provide a defining contrast to the dutiful approach that one has chosen to take in their life, whether or not the crowd did the same.  The realizations that come of this personal reflection will promote a very deep emotional satisfaction in who they are and how they have lived their life.  This will provide an emotional strength that is as potent as the inner strength that one experiences when at the height of youth, with a bright unmarred future ahead and full of sociological potential..but the difference of this particular strength will apply to the context of having come to prove and know oneself as a strong elder.  This is something that can only be arrived at by earning it.  One earns this through a lifetime of decisions, pursuit of goals, willing acceptance of hard work that one sees as one's duty, and accepting personal accountability for every aspect of one's self.  This allows one to see and know themselves as being someone who has something to contribute to the younger generations, and will project oneself in an accessible way to those who are beginning or relatively fresh on the path of traversing of the great trek we call life.  This affords a renewal of one's personal sense of life purpose in the late stages of life, and how this reflects who they've become as a person through their own passages in life. 

Stacie

[Rad]

Hi Stacie,

So can you now link this S.Node ruler in the 10th House to the S.Node itself in the 3rd, and then link that to the Pluto in the 8th by starting the sequence of this with that Pluto in the 8th ?

Rad

[Lia]

Hi All,

Thanks Rad for this interesting thread, (and actually for all the threads on this MB! browsing through them one is more marvellous than the other!!)

This chart is becoming ever more interesting! Wow! We may have outlined the baseline dynamics of a chart for let say, a world known mafia leader or a great psychology teacher/writer who sincerely meant good .....or anything in between ...like a president, or just a simple everyday person who happened to be a director of the tiniest corporation etc. etc....that's all relative, and of course would depend on the specifics .....

But what everything would essentially depend upon is what kind of power symbols the soul identified with and what kind of desires it acted upon as a result......which then would define how the 8th house desire nature have been manifested via the facilitating symbols: i.e. what kind of ambitions (10th house) the underlying security needs (8th house) lead to via the  3rd s.node egocentric nature.....what's for sure is that the person wanted to manifest power within his/her immediate environment and was relatively "clever" in some way implementing it using the intellectual ability it had, fuelled by the underlying desires of the 8th pluto....it is certain now that it has done either via some some kind of social "status" or "accomplishment" of some sort...meaning the person may earned it or may gained it.....in one way or another it lead to at least some relative worldly power and status....

From the current info we can not really know if the person meant well or not, but we certainly know it has identified with the social role/status....with the 3rd s.node being facilitated by the ruler in the 10th some degree of identification is more than likely. (Except if the person is very high on the evolutionary ladder, but that is rather rare)

Simplifying the picture if we look at symbols and at the same time the relevant polarities this would point out the desired evolutionary growth areas, and all of them points to the inner world: meaning evolution would occur via changing (or being enforced to change) the focus from what's happening outwardly, and in relation to others, to what's happening inwardly.

Pluto's p.p being in the 2nd house, points to the self itself, as the major evolutionary lesson. Within that the n.node (as the polarity of the s.node) is the 9th, points to the need of changing one's way of thinking from the linear, logical, deductive thinking to the inductive, non-linear, non-logical way. To embrace some intuitive, natural truth, instead of being dependent upon opinions.....for the person was formulating opinions according to some kind of socially accepted authority (including their own status) ....this was one of the way to gain power...

Than, in power, these whatever opinons were then communicated from a point of view of some sort of status quo....this could have been totally honest or could have been fuelled with manipulation and ulterior agendas...that can not be known at this point....in any case, the person needs to embrace more of the whole, to open up their horizon...i.e. truths are not dependent upon people's opinions or the staus quo...
(the need for embracing the actual truths is set forth in the n.node in the 9th)

The next thing is the s.node ruler's polarity, which of course pointing to the 4th house; the emotional reality of the person, independent of social status.... to embrace how they actually feel and function emotionally within themselves independent of anything else...to become aware of their essential humanity and the fact that they too are emotional beings just as everybody else...and as such, what 8th house pluto perhaps fears most to face: their own vulnerability! 

These polarity points set the theme of the major evolutionary lessons in this life....while pluto, s.node and its ruler show what has been developed in the past...

It worked for a while to merge with the perceived power symbols to rise above the previous limitations, but now there is a need to look within deeper...that either happens via the person's conscious cooperation, or happens via circumstances that will enforce the change of focus....

Questions like the following suppose to enter into consciousness, well maybe not literally, but the essence of them will manifest in some ways:
"Who am I independent of position, power, social role etc.? Who am I independent of all other people? What do I really value in life? How do I really feel within and what kind of inner relationship do I have with myself? Does my identity really equal to my social status? Is that my only emotional base to have a self image? What is the truth in all this? Is there actually a being "me" who does not relate to either, what/whom am I joining powers with, nor how others/society perceives me?"


Looking forward to where this chart will actually lead...!

Blessings,
Lia

[Deva]

Hi, this is great interpretation! I wanted to add that, as Lia was saying, the Soul would have to find his or her voice of authority from within (10th house ruler of the SN) in the context of knowing what information to abosorb and which to leave out that is based on cultural conditioning factors and does not serve to support the Soul's on going evolution. In other words, a limiting dynamic within the Soul would be absorbing information from the consenus enviornment because of the need to conform, yet this type of information, again, does not support the need for conitual evolution/metamporhosis symbolized by the 8th house natal Pluto.
Deva

[Issa]

a little debrief after reading some of your wonderful words everyone

limiting dynamic of this soul consumed by status and worldly power -- now that we have more details we look back @ initial questions: what power symbols soul identified with? -- what desires were acted upon?

Like Lia said, the Ambitions (10th) inacted reflect an intellectual capacity (3rd) through which the soul achieved power -status within a relative environment. environment able to validate power -building status within a group of opinions en vez de truths.  so important the soul make change from within/inner sense & not make change only in the grand outer world of visage and social power as 3 and 10  south node and its ruler demonstrate

8th house soul merged with power symbols (of some intelectual -- ambition filled sort) now we see where its hit the limitation bridge and its brewin' over -- soul looking for and needing a deeper more complete experience (9th house polarity) -- the greater vision -- a larger picture inline with natural truths and not the man-make power status shite- can't go on anymore because of existing limitations -- always the evolutionary pull and either complient or forced to see the symbols and limitations --sometimes catacysmic -- intensity inorder for soul to learn --

soul's tendency to deduct opinions according to socially accepted authority en vez de induct truths according to natural law intuitive capacity

another limiting factor, the need to embrace the hole and the horizon-- truths are not dependent on status quo/opinions. 4th house dynamic south node rulership polarity point-- the souls emotional reality -- sense to feel/have emotions or not and how this ties back in with the limiting factor -- evolutionary wall


well.. i intended to keep it broad so i apologize if i focused on the limiting factors or one expression of the archetypes en vez de the other.. yes, thank you all who posted, i pretty much read you then Lia so i resaid what i heard from her
Bless ya'll
Issa