Shamanism and EA

[lucyrist]

Hej everyone!

I was not sure what would be the right thread for this question. I am still exploring here but a search for shamanism didn't bring up anything so this feels like the closest topic perhaps in which to ask my question and maybe there are more here with this interest? 

I am very interested in anything others can share regarding Jeffreys views on, and experience with, Shamanic practice and world views. I read in a transcript he described the idea of "Soul Retrieval" as nonsense. My interpretation of what he was saying was that he was refering more around the flippant (or perhaps over literalised) use of that concept rather than its meaning when within the broader world view from which it comes. Could anyone add more to this? Both specifically in relation to concepts of soul loss and soul retrieval but also just more generally around Jeffreys interests in Shamanism. My guess is it was a naturally compatible area for him, based on other reading and certain important relationships that are mentioned but I would really love to know more. I shall paste below the text from the transcript I read as I imagine this context is needed. Thanks in advance for any insights anyone can offer!

Lucy

Q: Somewhat out of this context: do you believe in the phenomena of 'Walk-ins'?
A: No, bullshit. I mean, think about it. At no point throughout the history of spiritual thought, other than the manifestation of Ruth Montgomery, has the idea of Walk-ins ever been talked about. This is the same nonsense as this thing called 'Soul Retrieval'. It is pure nonsense in the way it's being presented. It facilitates and ignites and keeps in motion the whole idea of victimization, not taking responsibility for our own lives. It is so easy to say "Why, my action is caused by this, because of some Walk-in". Really, what the dynamic is begging, is the phenomena truly one of Soul Possession? This is a very rare phenomena, when a soul is taken over by another soul. This can happen, but it is extremely rare. Which is why even the Christian people have exorcism ceremony and ritual. But it is very, very rare. The soul has to be in an absolute state of being weak by various causes in order to be truly possessed.

Q: - ? A: This is typically linked with a soul that has been fragmented, for various reasons, normally associated with massive emotional trauma. And in fragments, then it creates what we can call the appearance of different parts of itself. That is not Walk-in stuff and it is not somebody snatching the soul that has to be retrieved!"

[Rad]

Hi lucyrist

JWG lived by Natural Laws that included natural shamamistic ways of understanding life. There is nothing more to say about this, as there is nothing more to say about what he said about the soul retrieval/ loss in the quote you have mentioned.

God Bless, Rad

[lucyrist]

Hej Rad! Thanks for responding. I dont really understand what you mean - there is nothing more to say? I understand JWG lived by natural laws and shamanic ways, that is why I love his work so much and feel such a resonance with EA and a desire to learn more. What I didn't understand in the quote and was seeking clarification on was what exactly he was getting at with the concept of soul retrieval/loss. Taking those worlds literally he is saying soul retrieval is nonsense - but that didn't make sense. So was he saying something other than what a surface look at those words suggests? I dont believe he is actually saying there that the shamanic concept of soul retrieval is nonsense? I was hoping someone could shed light on that part of the quote. Was he getting more at the victim mindset that a person could hold from it? Was he saying that a part of soul isnt actually "lost". Or perhaps there are different understandings of soul and more nuance to the issue. Would you be able to share with me more on his ideas and views specifically regarding soul loss and retrieval, power loss would also be of great interest.
Warmly, Lucy

[Rad]

Hi Lucy,

There is nothing more to say because that's all he ever said about it. If that doesn't make sense to you then it doesn't make sense to you, but that's all he said; if a soul can't be lost, there is then nothing to 'retrieve'. The exception he made was exactly what he said about the rare cases of a soul being possessed by the forces of evil, and the exorcisms, rituals, to free the soul from such possession.

God Bless, Rad

[lucyrist]

Great Rad, this was exactly my feeling and I was looking for confirmation "if a soul can't be lost, there is then nothing to 'retrieve'". I would have loved to have been present at this conversation to have asked some follow up questions - even if that was all he said about it I bet there is much more that could have been said. My own experiences with shamanic practice are of great value and at an experiential level in full resonance with EA, and yet some of the usual ways of talking about the practices are in a literal sense not accurate, so that is what Jeffrey was pointing at.

I wonder if there are others with an interest in this topic here? It would be very meaningful to me to explore more some of these shamanic concepts and experiences within the framework of EA. Some friends in shamanic communities seem less open to exploring, at least so far I have struggled to find anyone willing to have an open and curious discussion.

Thank you for this! God bless you too.