Skipped Steps

[dollydaydream]

As a follow-up to my last message, please go ahead and continue without my comments.  This is taking too long for me (I have been looking at these charts for hours and hours over the last few days).  I think it would be better for me to learn from the actual reality symbolized and described in the charts, and then continue to study those symbols after the fact in order to learn.  I really don't want to hold everybody up.  Thanks to all.  DDD

[Merlyn]

I'm following along and studying on my own but don't have the energy to post at the moment.  Please continue, I will post when I can.  Incredible to be a part of this discussion!

Cheers, Edward

[dollydaydream]

In looking at the individual chart of Chloe and Shaw, as well as the synastry chart, I am wondering if, in the past, they have switched gender as siblings, so that Shaw was the sister in the past and Chloe was the brother.  I know the family dynamic is included in the Cancer/Capricorn archetype, but so is gender (Chloe has Cancer/Capricorn nodes, and Shaw has 10th/4th nodes).  I am also thinking about the fact that through patriarchal belief systems, family inheritance usually went to the male children, and if so, that would have been Chloe as a boy.

I am also wondering about whether these two have been separated in the past by caste or social status.   DDD

[Skywalker]

Hi Rad,

At the moment I will just be reading what others are posting.

Thank you

All the best

[marty]

hi Rad,

   thank you for your teaching. Is there anything in their synastic chart to indicate that these two could have been considered 'twins' of different mothers from a past life? On Dec. 8 you described that they had been brother and sister in past lives. Is it possible that in one of these lives they were very close in age, and nature, but 'one step removed' genetically?

   Could Shaw's Pluto polarity point have something to do with coming to terms with a 'twin self' because they were once so close in age and nature?

   I'm looking at Gemini on the 12th house - its' ruler in Shaw's house, which squares Chloes' nodes, is in an individuating, independent sign in a house of autonomous authority. Chloe's Mercury (also square her nodes) is in a more dependent sign in a house of maternal identification.

   Is it possible that these two have been gender flip-flopping through more than one lifetime in order to 'walk in each others' shoes'? Also their Mercurys oppose each other in the Capricorn/Cancer houses. Are they learning a new intellectual reality - one of utter mutuality (how I treat you affects me)?

   Also are they learning the utter sanctity of all life with Shaw's desire nature and reality structure planets in Cancer in the 12th? It's hard for me to separate my feelings from the study.

   thank you.

   

[Rad]

Hi DDD,

In looking at the individual chart of Chloe and Shaw, as well as the synastry chart, I am wondering if, in the past, they have switched gender as siblings, so that Shaw was the sister in the past and Chloe was the brother.  I know the family dynamic is included in the Cancer/Capricorn archetype, but so is gender (Chloe has Cancer/Capricorn nodes, and Shaw has 10th/4th nodes).  I am also thinking about the fact that through patriarchal belief systems, family inheritance usually went to the male children, and if so, that would have been Chloe as a boy.

Individually both Shaw and Chloe have been going back and forth as male/ female in their own individual evolutionary progression wherein each is desiring to integrate the inner male and female within them. In the specific past life connections to one another that correlate with the skipped steps between them, the purpose of this thread, Chloe has been the female, Shaw the male. One of this issues in past life related to the family inheritance correlates with a variety of circumstances concerning that inheritance:  social positions, stature, money, and so on that were the basis of conflict between them as brother and sister.

"I am also wondering about whether these two have been separated in the past by caste or social status."

Relative to what the skipped steps are between them .. no.

God Bless, Rad

[Rad]

Hi Marty,

"Is there anything in their synastic chart to indicate that these two could have been considered 'twins' of different mothers from a past life? On Dec. 8 you described that they had been brother and sister in past lives. Is it possible that in one of these lives they were very close in age, and nature, but 'one step removed' genetically?"

Yes. Not sure what you mean about 'twins'. They have had the same fathers who would have mistresses and secret sexual liaisons with women which produced children. So same father, different mothers. Among the symbols that correlate with this is Shaw's Pluto/Moon in opposition to his Venus/Gemini in the 12th which is conjunct his Mars/Saturn in Cancer in that 12th, the Pluto being the ruler of his S.Node in the 4th in Scorpio which is Chloe's Ceres, her Nodal Axis in Cancer/ Capricorn in his 12th, 6th, with her Venus, Mercury squaring those Nodes in his 4th House, and Shaw's own Ceres in Cancer on her S.Node.

"Could Shaw's Pluto polarity point have something to do with coming to terms with a 'twin self' because they were once so close in age and nature?"

This issue here is for them both realizing in other lives that they have had different mothers with the same fathers: Shaw's polarity point, in general, is learning how to see and understand others objectively. Thus to know, see, and understand his sister in this way.

"I'm looking at Gemini on the 12th house - its' ruler in Shaw's house, which squares Chloes' nodes, is in an individuating, independent sign in a house of autonomous authority. Chloe's Mercury (also square her nodes) is in a more dependent sign in a house of maternal identification.  Is it possible that these two have been gender flip-flopping through more than one lifetime in order to 'walk in each others' shoes'? Also their Mercurys oppose each other in the Capricorn/Cancer houses. Are they learning a new intellectual reality - one of utter mutuality (how I treat you affects me)?

They are learning to understand each other objectively, and to adjust their orientation to one another accordingly. In the past lives that correlate to the skipped steps they typically would alternate between agreeing with one another, this opinion or that, to total disagreement leading to tremendous arguing with one another. Each would try to convince the other of their own rightness. This becomes resolved by objectively understanding one another where both are learning, at the same time, to become responsible for the realities each have created for themselves versus feeling victimized. They have both been flip flopping between being male / female for their own individual evolutionary purposes. Relative to the past lives that correlate to the skipped steps between them Chloe has been the female, Shaw the male.

"Also are they learning the utter sanctity of all life with Shaw's desire nature and reality structure planets in Cancer in the 12th? It's hard for me to separate my feelings from the study."

Yes, both are learning this individually, and together. But this is not one of the 'skipped steps' between them which is the focus on this thread. The essence of EA is to try as best we can to see the dynamics in any given Soul as objectively as we can: to remove the subjective. It takes practice over time.

God Bless, Rad

[Upasika]

Hi Rad,

Thanks for checking... I'm pretty busy at the moment, but have just started catching up with a little reading. If I make more progress with that I may get to a point in the next two or three days to write. But I can't promise that, so probably best to just go at the pace that fits everyone else..

thanks Upasika

[dollydaydream]

I think one of the ways that the skipped steps between Chloe and Shaw could be resolved would be for Chloe to become consciously aware of how her competitive nature and overbearing presence sets off his anger, and to take action to  re-channel that creative energy away from him and towards herself in a way that is unique to her, and obviously non-competitive.  She could actually help to encourage his own efforts at finding security within himself through her own efforts at actualizing her inner talents.  They both want to be recognized, they are both special, but they can both be special and recognized in their own individual way, outside and separate from each other (not in a way that would exclude them working together in the future).   (Chloe's Mars/Leo/1st square Shaw's North Node Taurus/South Node Scorpio)


If Shaw feels dominated by his sister, he would need to learn to take the responsibility of initiating conversations with her where he could tell her of his need for space in order to re-balance.  Also a need for space in order to create.  During such conversations, he could listen to Chloe's concerns relative to how she feels he has been treating her, as well as anything else she wants to say to him, and all this while each taking a turn to be silent while the other speaks.  Therapists can help with this through the use of a "talking stick" - the one holding a stick is the only one who talks while the other listens, and vice versa.  Sometimes this practice can include the listener to repeat back to the talker exactly what they have just said in order to evaluate their listening skills.  (His Mercury/Aries/10th Square Chloe's North Node/Capricorn/6th, South Node/Cancer/1st)

[Rad]

Hi DDD,

Excellent strategies that perfectly correlate to the EA symbols between them.

God Bless, Rad

[Rad]

All,

We will continue on tomorrow, Dec 15th, by examining the synastry of Chloes birth chart with Shaw's overlaid upon that.

God Bless, Rad

[Rad]

All,

Ok, so we will now continue by doing an EA examination of Chloe's natal chart with her brother Shaw's chart overlaying it that correlates with the synastry between them.

So we want to focus on Shaw's Nodal Axis with his S.Node in Scorpio in her 4th, ruled by his Pluto/Moon in her 5th. That S.Node is conjunct Chloe's Vesta, and Sun. His North Node in Taurus is in her 10th House that is ruled by his Venus in Gemini in her 11th which is conjunct his Mars in Cancer also in the 11th, and that Mars is also conjunct his Saturn which is in her 12th House. His Neptune, which squares his Nodes correlating to his skipped steps because it is square his Nodal Axis, lands in her 7th House and is conjunct her Jupiter, Moon, Neptune, and Chiron.

His Mercury in Aries which is in her 9th House squares her S.Node in Cancer in the 12th which is conjunct Shaw's own Ceres, and is also square her N.Node in Capricorn in her 6th House which is also Shaw's Juno and Chiron.

We have now done quite a bit of EA work understanding the various dynamics between them and why: all that we have already done that should be remembered and used as context.  So we want to now focus on Chloe and how her own emotional/ psychological/ soul dynamics have interacted with Shaw's from HER POINT OF VIEW. We want to specifically focus on what the nature of the skipped steps that she is responsible for with him, and WHY THOSE SKIPPED STEPS HAVE BEEN CREATED.

One of the archetypes that JWG taught that correlates when siblings become intimate is Libra, Venus, and the 7th House. Gemini, Mercury, and the 3rd House correlate of course to siblings. It is because of Libra is part of the natural trinity with Gemini, and Aquarius that this correlation occurs through.

When trying to understand the evolutionary and karmic dynamics between them that has caused the skipped steps between them, remembering again to understand their individual skipped steps and why, from Chloe's point of view start with this fact: that Chloe has felt imprisoned by the types of families that her Soul chose to be born into. She has felt unloved for her own nature: that which she intrinsically is. She has of course, as any child would, want to be loved and validated by her parents. When this does not occur is leads to displaced emotions that manifest towards others whom the Soul feels can provide that love and validation.

So one simple example when you look at Shaw's chart overlaid on top of her chart we can see how she wanted to be rescued by him that was fueled by how her soul took his soul into hers.

So in the context of her Soul let's try to understand how she has taken Shaw in given that they have come into other lives together with the same father but different mothers: blended families.

So let's give it a go. If you have any questions please ask them of me now.

God Bless, Rad

[Bhaskara]

Hi Everyone,

Is it possible that because Chloe has displaced emotions and feelings of deep emptiness revolving around father figures that she became desperate in wanting Shaw to fill that spot. So desperate that Chloe used a form of emtrapment in a way, she used her feminine and mothering nature to seduce Shaw and because of Shaws own displaced emotions and not seeing others clearly he fell into her seduction? Is it possible that Chloe actually in the end wanted to become pregnant with a baby as a way to fill this deep emotional emptiness in her as well as a way to bond to Shaw? I'm looking at this through all the aspects mentioned above as well as tying in Shaws Uranus in Pisces in Chloe's 8th house is trine his Saturn Mars conjunction in Cancer in her 11th and 12th all trine to her Sun in Scorpio in the 4th as well as the south nodes of Mercury Venus and Mars in Scorpio in the 4th.

Thank you,
Heather

[Helena]

Hi Rad,

Thank you for your lead so far. I've been giving it a lot of though, specially on the 12th house overlay issues but i'm afraid getting lost a bit.
I see, from Chloe's point of view that Shaw's soul has been taken by her as a mirror her own soul - her SN in cancer, his SN in her 4th, her NN in Capricorn, his NN in her 10th house. She wants to learn emotional self-sufiency and become secure within herself, he also has the same desires so he appears as a symbol of emotional nurturance within her family context, bringing specialness, shine, his moon in her 5th, to make her feel secure, although he only also projects this security on her with his neptune 7th house skipped step in his and her life. This moon/pluto in her 5th would also represent children within the relationship has a way to secure the relationship and as a result of the emotional closeness and intensity between them and maybe a natural consequence to a certain fear of the separation because of the natural society judgment of the brother sister relationship.
Since her moon is her 7th, libra house, conjunct jupiter, chiron and neptune in aquarius, i can see from what you shared that this can exactly represent the symbolism of brother/sister relationship becoming sexualized by also his venus and mars falling in her 11th, her venus being in the 3rd.

My questions, relative to the synastry, in the this context and a more general one from what we've been talking about previously, is that both have planets squaring each other nodes, opposing each other's skipped steps, so i take from here that both in some way are opposing the resolution. For instance, from Chloe's point of view, she feels Shaw's mercury in aries in her 9th opposing her own mercury and venus in libra, the symbols for her brother sister relationship and skipped steps. So she feels his presence as a conflicting need for his freedom and liberation (his mercury pulled by mars in her 11th) that is a threat to her emotional security (opposing her pluto)?

As for the 12th house Rad, i have some doubts on the fact that this house correlates to space, personal space, as you mentioned and the natural symbolism in synastry, taking that in synastry, i suppose is right, the houses represent the context in which we take the others in relationships, meaning how they appear in our context, and so the general meaning of this context when it it is the 12th house and this notion of 'space'.
Since hey both have planets in their own 12th houses and they both have planets occupying the 12th in synastry. I get this symbol means that a merging of their souls, not being able to separate, is the issue here but i feel cannot understand fully the symbolism of the specific planets/nodes for each others house. So for instance, her node on his 12th house means in the context of the specific events that this merging got her to lose her life on his hands, but what would be the meaning of the node being also in her own 12th house, comparing to a situation when there is not this mutual symbolism? Would that involve mutual desire for it to be that way?
And in a general context how can we approach the meaning of personal planets in synastry when the other person has no planets of its own in the 12th house? No mutual desire, a taking, abuse of the other's space?

Thank you all for your participation and sorry for a comment that ends up being a lot of questions!..
Helena

[Rad]

Hi Heather,

"Is it possible that because Chloe has displaced emotions and feelings of deep emptiness revolving around father figures that she became desperate in wanting Shaw to fill that spot. So desperate that Chloe used a form of emtrapment in a way, she used her feminine and mothering nature to seduce Shaw and because of Shaws own displaced emotions and not seeing others clearly he fell into her seduction?"

No, she did not entrap Shaw or seduce him. Her soul was simply hypnotically attracted to his: infatuated. It is true in the lives they shared together in the context of families that she reached out to him to help her and him deal with the various types of crisis's occurring in the family, to survive them together, and she wanted him to 'rescue' her from the inner sense of being imprisoned is such families. The intimacy that occurred that lead to becoming pregnant in one of those lives, the last life together, took place in the context of bonding together because of the nature of the families/ fathers: crisis creating proximity together because of the crisis's. Like two people holing up together to withstand something. Their desire for each other sexually was mutual.

"Is it possible that Chloe actually in the end wanted to become pregnant with a baby as a way to fill this deep emotional emptiness in her as well as a way to bond to Shaw? I'm looking at this through all the aspects mentioned above as well as tying in Shaws Uranus in Pisces in Chloe's 8th house is trine his Saturn Mars conjunction in Cancer in her 11th and 12th all trine to her Sun in Scorpio in the 4th as well as the south nodes of Mercury Venus and Mars in Scorpio in the 4t"

It was not some kind of conscious choice on her part to become pregnant. She really had no access to birth control stuff in that life. The pregnancy occurred because of that fact, and of course lead to the deepest crisis between them.

God Bless, Rad